Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

Given the length of time between Sara's death and resurrection and that parties in the know did not attempt the LP, there has to be some type of catalyst.

 

I can't think of anything that would motivate Laurel, but idk.

[apinknightmare]

I thought we were discussing Nyssa being on board/helping with the LP use?

 

No, HighwayFlower was speculating that Nyssa was responsible for bringing Sara to the LP.

 

I agree that Nyssa would go along with it.

I can't think of anything that would motivate Laurel, but idk.

 

The only thing I can think of is a) to get her help against DD's people that they can't seem to defeat, b) to get back in Quentin's good graces, or c) because...well, she can and she wants to. 

 

It seems from the interviews that were released today like c) might be the reason.

[Sakura12]

or d) Sara died so Laurel can become Because Comics, now she's bringing Sara back to life to get her own show because she's the more popular one. As evidenced by them bending over backwards to bring her back to the land of the living. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Given the length of time between Sara's death and resurrection and that parties in the know did not attempt the LP, there has to be some type of catalyst.

 

I can't think of anything that would motivate Laurel, but idk.

LL motivations could be - to get her father back, misplaced anger &/or guilt and fashion advice (jk on the last one). Maybe she wants to try it out on SL, before she tries it out on Tommy or someone else she cares about. IDK, does LL need motivation for half the dumb stuff she does in the name of "love" or justice?

 

Although I think how it will play out is that TQ will accidentally reveal her time in the LP. LL will get all upset as to why nobody told her about this magical pit earlier (cuz it really seems like she was kept out of that information). She will then stomp to the grave, dig her up and drag her to MM - where she will demand justice. TQ will tag-a-long because she feels guilty & MM owes her. A fight will ensue because Nyssa will be coincidentally walking by just as they are about to pit SL. SL will go down, come back to life not right. They will bring her back to SC, heavily sedate her & drop her off at QL's apt to recover. And then call OQ over to QL's apt to have him fix the situation. Cue emotional 404 scenes. Last minute call to Constantine at end of ep. Then in 305 we go about saving SL's soul. As to where Nyssa is in all of this post-LP, either dead or locked up in NP.

[AyChihuahua]

LL motivations could be - to get her father back, misplaced anger &/or guilt and fashion advice (jk on the last one). Maybe she wants to try it out on SL, before she tries it out on Tommy or someone else she cares about.

If they set it up that LL uses her sister as a test of how well the LP works so that she can later use it on Tommy, the character of LL is done.  That would be one of the very sickest things I can think of. 

I strongly believe Nyssa will be against it, although probably a little torn.  Laurel and Thea will be in on it, and Thea will convince MM to let them do it.  I mean, he beat Sara's butt in the 2.5 comics, so there's no reason to think he'd be overly worried about her coming after him once she's resurrected.

[Starfish35]

Although I think how it will play out is that TQ will accidentally reveal her time in the LP. LL will get all upset as to why nobody told her about this magical pit earlier (cuz it really seems like she was kept out of that information). She will then stomp to the grave, dig her up and drag her to MM - where she will demand justice. TQ will tag-a-long because she feels guilty & MM owes her. A fight will ensue because Nyssa will be coincidentally walking by just as they are about to pit SL. SL will go down, come back to life not right. They will bring her back to SC, heavily sedate her & drop her off at QL's apt to recover. And then call OQ over to QL's apt to have him fix the situation. Cue emotional 404 scenes. Last minute call to Constantine at end of ep. Then in 305 we go about saving SL's soul. As to where Nyssa is in all of this post-LP, either dead or locked up in NP.

This sounds all too plausible to me.

[AyChihuahua]

This sounds all too plausible to me.

Especially the stomping part.

[Starfish35]

Especially the stomping part.

LOL. :)

[Velocity23]

KC about White/Black Canary from Dragon Con

 

Here is the link

http://thegeekiary.com/katie-cassidy-talks-black-canary-training-costume-love-interests-more/26909

Edited September 10, 2015 by Velocity23

[Starfish35]

I can't see the pic - can anyone else see it?

ETA: Thanks for the link.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

IMO Laurel's motivation will be her mother.  Dinah might even tell her to do it in desperation if Laurel blurts out she can be resurrected, which she might. 

If they set it up that LL uses her sister as a test of how well the LP works so that she can later use it on Tommy, the character of LL is done.  That would be one of the very sickest things I can think of. 

I strongly believe Nyssa will be against it, although probably a little torn.  Laurel and Thea will be in on it, and Thea will convince MM to let them do it.  I mean, he beat Sara's butt in the 2.5 comics, so there's no reason to think he'd be overly worried about her coming after him once she's resurrected.

 

 

It would be sick but I'll trade sane-ish LL for crazypantsZombie!Tommy all day every day and twice on Sunday

[Sakura12]

I love how she always as to add how great she is too after talking about someone else. I guess it's a start since she rarely ever talked about the rest of the cast before. 

[Starfish35]

IMO Laurel's motivation will be her mother. Dinah might even tell her to do it in desperation if Laurel blurts out she can be resurrected, which she might.

I think if Alex Kingston was going to appear in the first few episodes, they'd have announced that by now. There'd be no reason to keep that secret.

[catrox14]

Holy cow, the spin in that article makes me dizzy LOL. 

I think if Alex Kingston was going to appear in the first few episodes, they'd have announced that by now. There'd be no reason to keep that secret.

 

I wasn't saying Dinah had to appear on screen.  It can be a phone conversation. It would even be Laurel jumping to conclusions and thinking it's what her mother would want. My point is more that Dinah would be the motivation for Laurel to do a bad thing rather than Laurel doing it on her own. 

 

Laurel has no reason to do this but no one else has any real reason either.  Quentin would be horrified and not want it.

 

Oliver wouldn't do it unless MAYBE Team Arrow is desperate enough to have her skillz as a fighter and evern then it's going to have to be the literal end of the world for him to do that IMO.

 

Thea doing it seems like a choice only because she might not be thinking straight because of the resurrection.

Edited September 10, 2015 by catrox14

[Sakura12]

I really wonder how much they told her about her storyline this season? From what I remember during season 2 the EP and her were spouting off about how Sara was there just to be a part of Laurel's journey, then in the season we saw Laurel get sidelined all way off to offscreenville. Now I wonder how they spun the whole you are bringing Sara back to life (after we killed her off so you could be BC) thing to her is good for her? You are going to be a big part of bringing Sara back to life so we then can give her, her own show as one of the leads. But this is a really great thing for Laurel and it totally won't make people compare the two even more when they are both running around in costumes with color opposite names. No, it won't get confusing even though you both are called Canary, because COLORS!

 

You still get to be called Black Canary while we get to play around with the closer to the comics Black Canary in the sort of Justice League. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sakura12

[HighwayFlower]

But but. Her name is LAUREL. Sooo. Yeah.

I can't imagine what her story will be after Sara. Her sister being alive takes away the very reason she became a vigilante, and there is no reason she would keep the Canary name!

[bethy]

But but. Her name is LAUREL. Sooo. Yeah.

I can't imagine what her story will be after Sara. Her sister being alive takes away the very reason she became a vigilante, and there is no reason she would keep the Canary name!

 

But now Laurel can get the ultimate approval for herself as Black Canary - Sara will surely, at some point, tell Laurel that she is the TRUE BC and that Sara was really just channeling her inner-LAUREL when she was a vigilante. So Sara will take the white color because...something...so Laurel can fulfill her density as BC.

[apinknightmare]

Well, people are going to compare Laurel and Sara whether Sara is alive or not, so that ship has sailed. And Katie doesn't have a say in what they do or don't do with Sara, so I'm not sure why anyone would try to sell it to her as if they had to convince her to go along with it. She doesn't have a choice BUT to go along with it.

 

I don't see why she wouldn't keep the Black Canary name, since she didn't take it up out of any affection or need to honor Sara. Quentin used it to make fun of her, and she goes by it because comics. Maybe it was also in part to take Quentin's nastiness and turn it into a positive thing, IDK.

 

Katie's been pretty clear that she wanted the mask, and she has it now. Sara's being around was part of the reason why Laurel didn't get it sooner. Since Laurel has the mask now, Sara's resurrection isn't going to impact that in any way, and she's getting shipped off to another show, Katie probably doesn't care about it that much.

[AyChihuahua]

But now Laurel can get the ultimate approval for herself as Black Canary - Sara will surely, at some point, tell Laurel that she is the TRUE BC and that Sara was really just channeling her inner-LAUREL when she was a vigilante. So Sara will take the white color because...something...so Laurel can fulfill her density as BC.

I'm much more optimistic than you about it, because Sara Lance is the one getting the spinoff, not Laurel.  I mean, I think Sara will do something to let Laurel know she's worthy, but they can't crap all over Sara or have Laurel totally whup her in a fight and then send her off to her spinoff in which she seems to be second lead.  Real second lead. 

[kismet]

Oliver wouldn't do it unless MAYBE Team Arrow is desperate enough to have her skillz as a fighter and evern then it's going to have to be the literal end of the world for him to do that IMO.

Sorry, I don't even see OQ wanting to bring people back from the dead even then. It's one thing to save a nearly dead person. It's another thing to resurrect someone without their consent. It's just not gonna go well. And considering that OQ stated he has seen things when Ras mentioned the LP the first time, I have a feeling he knows how badly things can go when mystical things are involved.

 

OQ loved SL and as sad as her death was for him. My assumption/understanding of his character is that he hopes & wants to believe that SL has found peace in the afterlife. There is no way he would rip her from the afterworld to fight a mission. He's now watched her die at least 3 times. He has also had to process her possible death by villain at least 3 additional times on top of her actual deaths. Her death has been taunted to him as his fault by both multiple villains & friends. I do not see in any realm of possibility in OQ wanting to put a loved one in the LP over 1+ years from her death to bring her back to life so she can join his crusade.

 

OQ getting on board to save her soul once the others have already made the mistake to bring her back to life, that's almost a given. OQ would do just about anything to save the people he cares about. I don't think he would walk away from being able to help SL & fix LL's mistake. Especially when he simply has to call a friend. Even if SL, is haunting TQ I still see him trying alternative methods of exorcising the evil spirits before resorting to using the LP.

[Sakura12]

That will always bother me and probably never be explained beyond Because Comics (which is why that is LL's name for me).

 

The name Canary only means something to Sara. She had the pet canary as a kid, she saw/hallucinated the canary while she was baking in the sun floating around the ocean after nearly drowning. She choose the name the Canary probably because of both those reasons. That name belongs to her.

 

The name Canary means nothing to Laurel now that Sara's alive in the narrative the Arrow writers set up for the audience watching the television show. 

[catrox14]

Sorry, I don't even see OQ wanting to bring people back from the dead even then. It's one thing to save a nearly dead person. It's another thing to resurrect someone without their consent. It's just not gonna go well. And considering that OQ stated he has seen things when Ras mentioned the LP the first time, I have a feeling he knows how badly things can go when mystical things are involved.

 

OQ loved SL and as sad as her death was for him. My assumption/understanding of his character is that he hopes & wants to believe that SL has found peace in the afterlife. There is no way he would rip her from the afterworld to fight a mission. He's now watched her die at least 3 times. He has also had to process her possible death by villain at least 3 additional times on top of her actual deaths. Her death has been taunted to him as his fault by both multiple villains & friends. I do not see in any realm of possibility in OQ wanting to put a loved one in the LP over 1+ years from her death to bring her back to life so she can join his crusade.

 

OQ getting on board to save her soul once the others have already made the mistake to bring her back to life, that's almost a given. OQ would do just about anything to save the people he cares about. I don't think he would walk away from being able to help SL & fix LL's mistake. Especially when he simply has to call a friend. Even if SL, is haunting TQ I still see him trying alternative methods of exorcising the evil spirits before resorting to using the LP.

 

OH don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying I think Oliver WOULD do it. I was just thinking of a situation where if he had literally no other options to save the world from something worse, then HE MIGHT.  Again, MIGHT do it.

[Chaser]

I didn't know her and DP were roommates. I bet they talk about Jesse Mccartney.  

 

I laughed at the detailed lipstick and eyelash talk.

 

KC's interviews are very wordy, but she says very little. The answers tend to ramble around and sometimes there is very little connection to the question. I wonder if she gets nervous at interviews and can't quite reign it in.  

 

I always assumed that they sought her out, I didn't realize that she approached them for a role.

[Starfish35]

The thing that caught my attention was her saying they didn't tell her that they were bringing Sara on. That's odd.

[kismet]

OH don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying I think Oliver WOULD do it. I was just thinking of a situation where if he had literally no other options to save the world from something worse, then HE MIGHT.  Again, MIGHT do it.

Yeah, I got that you weren't suggesting it. :) I just had to state my case re: OQ. But now that you mention it, the only way I could see it happening is if for plot purposes they were beyond desperate & decided to throw out everything they ever written or said about OQ. And even then there would be enough checks & balances to stop that script catastrophe from happening - SA I'm looking at you & your little love notes to MG. I feel like instead, they would just find a way for OQ to self-sacrifice himself again to save the world. Which would suck, but at least be in character :)

Edited September 10, 2015 by kismet

[Sakura12]

They seemed to want to keep Sara's casting a secret, Caity auditioned for a different character. Still have no clue why they thought bringing on badass Canary was a good idea if they still wanted LL to be BC. 

[catrox14]

 

I always assumed that they sought her out, I didn't realize that she approached them for a role.

 

I highly doubt that is what happened. It's probably more like there were meetings. She probably said, "It would be cool to play a kickass character again' and they were like well lets see what we can do. 

[Chaser]

The thing that caught my attention was her saying they didn't tell her that they were bringing Sara on. That's odd.

I'm not sure what she meant by that because I swear that MG said that they pulled her in and sat her down and told her about Sara. I think they said she was disappointed but was a good sport.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[NoWayOut]

It'll be interesting to see how Sara's send off will play out as far as Quentin and Laurel are concerned. I can't imagine they would willingly send Sara off to be a vigilante in another city after finally getting her back. (Yeah, I remember all about Laurel smiling like a loon when Sara left for band camp... I mean, back to the League of Assassins, but let's forget about that for a second.) I think Sara will tell them she wants to start anew elsewhere, and once there, she'll realize that she misses crime-fighting and decides to team up with the LoT.

[kismet]

The thing that caught my attention was her saying they didn't tell her that they were bringing Sara on. That's odd.

Fair warning, I have not read the article. I started to, but then got bored & easily distracted which generally happens when I engage in media spin for KC as BC.

 

The way KC has always handled the SL & BC questions to me always implied some BTS politics were at play. I'm not sure at what point in the creative process they decided to bring SL to the present day. Part of me, seems to believe that wasn't always the plan. That SL was going to stay in the past & LL was going to get her Canary training & positioning in s2. However, for some reason they changed their minds and decided to bring SL to present day. Maybe it was the lack of O/L chemistry, maybe CL shear talent as stunt performer, maybe it was even the changing of LI batons - IDK it always seems a little fishy when they (KC & TPTB) talk about it. It also seems a little fishy that they weren't sure is SL or IR was going to be bad or good. All of that evidence to me spoke of them not having a definitive plan for making SL the BC until later. Now they spin the story as always having had a plan, but the evidence doesn't always point to that. Just like SL's resurrection as part of a plan is currently in the spin cycle.

[kismet]

Still have no clue why they thought bringing on badass Canary was a good idea if they still wanted LL to be BC. 

Ditto - why they cast & wrote SL the way they did if they always intended to have LL as the BC will always be a baffling mystery to me. It's one of the questions I want answered 10+ years from now when they have those reunions at the PaleyFest and people can finally drop some of the PR mongering that goes on while a show is still on the air.

[Morrigan2575]

I think if Alex Kingston was going to appear in the first few episodes, they'd have announced that by now. There'd be no reason to keep that secret.

I don't know about that. They never actually announced AK being in 309. In fact we didn't find out until the episode description IIRC. About 3 weeks before the episode aired.

[Velocity23]

What i remember the most from season 2 was KCs appearance at Calgary Expo. Where she talk about sneaking into Caitys trailer and trying on CL mask and letting the make up people make her ready.

[lemotomato]

The way KC has always handled the SL & BC questions to me always implied some BTS politics were at play. I'm not sure at what point in the creative process they decided to bring SL to the present day. Part of me, seems to believe that wasn't always the plan. That SL was going to stay in the past & LL was going to get her Canary training & positioning in s2.

For what it's worth, I remember the EPs saying after the season 2 finale that even at the beginning of the series, they had two things they knew were going to happen: that Oliver would wake up in Hong Kong, and that Sara Lance was going to show up in the present. When they decided to make her proto-Black Canary rather than, say Ravager, is an interesting question to ponder Edited September 10, 2015 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

What i remember the most from season 2 was KCs appearance at Calgary Expo. Where she talk about sneaking into Caitys trailer and trying on CL mask and letting the make up people make her ready.

I bet they told her Laurel was going to SWF Sara and since KC is method...

[catrox14]

What i remember the most from season 2 was KCs appearance at Calgary Expo. Where she talk about sneaking into Caitys trailer and trying on CL mask and letting the make up people make her ready.

 

Wait, what? She seriously did that? Wow. That's really weird.

[Velocity23]

I think there is a video on youtube from that con, where she talks about it!

[Chaser]

I don't think its weird she would want to try on the mask. Sneaking into someone's trailer to try on their stuff and have a make-up team get you ready? That's creepy.

[apinknightmare]

Why would the mask be in CL's trailer? Seems like they'd keep that in makeup.

[Morrigan2575]

It wasn't. This happened in the make-up trailer. I didn't have a problem with her playing with the mask. Although, it does have a feel of grave robbing if she already knew CL's fate at the time.

What cracked me up was KC's comment about the make-up people saying she looked so cool/beautiful/hot/awesome (I don't remember the exact word she used) in the mask.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

SL's resurrection definitively wasn't planned, otherwise they wouldn't have had Diggle name his daughter after her. I think they were surprised with the backlash they got for killing Sara (when it was mostly the way they killed her over just killing her).

 

They probably should've stuck to their original plan. Sara being Ravenger would've been an awesome story to see, especially if she and Slade were lovers (Manu and Caity seemed to have gotten along so they could've had a lot of fun with that). And it would've really messed with Oliver as well. Two former friends as his enemies, one he's known since they were little kids. Instead they gave us a really good incarnation of comic book Black Canary and threw her away for an untrained, doesn't have a real reason to wear a mask Laurel as BC. 

[apinknightmare]

HOLY SHIT

 

THERE'S A NEW TRAILER ON FACEBOOK 

 

AND OLIVER PUT AN ENGAGEMENT RING IN ONE OF THOSE SOUFFLES

[bethy]

I'm much more optimistic than you about it, because Sara Lance is the one getting the spinoff, not Laurel. I mean, I think Sara will do something to let Laurel know she's worthy, but they can't crap all over Sara or have Laurel totally whup her in a fight and then send her off to her spinoff in which she seems to be second lead. Real second lead.

I totally agree they won't crap on Sara, but it seems to me they're going to need to figure out a way to have Laurel maintain the black costume. Otherwise I would think Sara would just reclaim her original outfit - even if she did change locations. And the tendency with the show is to emphasize Laurel's specialness. Although maybe they'll surprise me and have Laurel sat something nice about Sara, too.

ETA because I'd said, "Laurel say something nice about Laurel." Um.

Edited September 10, 2015 by bethy

[catrox14]

I think there is a video on youtube from that con, where she talks about it!

 

Oh I wasn't questioning the veracity of your comment, just more like WTF is she thinking!

[Morrigan2575]

HOLY SHIT

THERE'S A NEW TRAILER ON FACEBOOK

AND OLIVER PUT AN ENGAGEMENT RING IN ONE OF THOSE SOUFFLES

And the internet goes Kaboom

[Sakura12]

So they are going with the interrupted engagement trope right from the beginning.

[Chaser]

Excuse me while I ran to my cell phone...

[Morrigan2575]

So they are going with the interrupted engagement trope right from the beginning.

No one ever accused these guys of being original

[apinknightmare]

Love tropes

 

don't care

 

Can't wait for the shot of him digging it out and putting it back in his pocket all forlorn

[Guest]

HOLY SHIT

 

THERE'S A NEW TRAILER ON FACEBOOK 

 

AND OLIVER PUT AN ENGAGEMENT RING IN ONE OF THOSE SOUFFLES

 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!