Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

TIIC are going to need to amp up Oliver's descent into darkdom if I'm to believe HK Oliver turned into S1 murdering anti-hero Oliver. The torture scene at the end of last year was a good start. While I wouldn't be a fan of this per say, perhaps new LI is evil and flashback Oliver has to fridge her himself.

 

Yeah, the only reason I'm not excited about it is because I thought he was supposed to gradually be getting darker. I thought that guy would be moving away from the point where he'd have a girlfriend, but I guess I'll wait and see how they do it to judge. 

[foreverevolving]

I'm gonna join those optimistic of you and say that i don't think this will have a negative impact to present day.

I think, hoping, this will show the contrast of a healthy stable present day Oliver finding his humanity and light with Felicity, to the Oliver of flashback losing his humanity and light via this chick.

we were told time and time again that Felicity is the one who harness his light, but there had to have been someone was able to harness his darkness in a more profound way than Waller did, Waller was the spark who set the fire, but every fire needs air and wood to exist or it dies

same day for present day, Felicity harnesses his light but it was, in my opinion, Thea and Tommy (in his death) who provided the spark for it.

 

Does this make any sense to anyone besides me?

 

Also, I have to wonder at how much really will she be a girlfriend in the traditional sense of the word. I think there will be some form of relationship, certainly a sexual one, maybe an emotional one to a degree; I think we are getting will be something along the shades of his relationship with Helena. maybe this will be a role reversal in a way; where Oliver is in Helena's position, wounded heading there but not yet fully dark, while this new woman is Oliver- dark and doesn't believe she deserves redemption or love and her all being revolves around executing whatever task or calling she has (ala Oliver and the list). (ETA: and I just realized how much this sounded like his relationship with Sara.. so maybe i'm wrong)

 

 

 

Any way, since HIVE is present in present day I think it only makes sense that there be some connection to them in the flashback, and I think this woman may just be it. It is quite possible though that Oliver was not fully aware of it. and if she is bound to turn out in present day it will be a shock for him, not that she is evil but that she is connected to HIVE.

Edited August 11, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Chaser]

Same. I was looking for detached, psychopathy Oliver. A girlfriend doesn't fit that. Unless she is less of a girlfriend and more of someone he fools around with while they do bad deeds. That would parallel and contrast him in a real relationship with Felicity saving the city together.

[kismet]

Yeah, the only reason I'm not excited about it is because I thought he was supposed to gradually be getting darker. I thought that guy would be moving away from the point where he'd have a girlfriend, but I guess I'll wait and see how they do it to judge. 

 

Same. I was looking for detached, psychopathy Oliver. A girlfriend doesn't fit that. Unless she is less of a girlfriend and more of someone he fools around with while they do bad deeds. That would parallel and contrast him in a real relationship with Felicity saving the city together.

I'm imagining Bonnie & Clyde. Projects together that lead them into the Dark. As people have mentioned, OQ has a weakness for women, so I could easily see it being a woman that brings him dark. I would also prefer that its a relationship that gets him into the dark and not just him willingly getting involved. How many stories have been told of people that unknowingly or unwillingly participate in bad things because of a bad influence? That's just about every backstory on OITNB. It would also explain, why he was so quick to be able to pair up with Helena, perhaps she was not the first person who's darkness attracted him, only difference is he tried to fix her perhaps because of whatever happened with FB girl. Maybe she's Damien Darhk's Daughter, but he never knew that... Would get magic into FB as well as be a connection to the present.

 

Its his guilt that will leave him there & eat away at him once he realizes what he's done - that will then lead to who we met in pilot. But I don't think Akio's death is enough to do that, he seemed pretty upbeat all things considered getting on that freighter.

Edited August 11, 2015 by kismet

[Guest]

I think she'll be less of a love interest and more of a one time sexy time friend. I really don't see him having a girlfriend in flashbacks. At least not one he's exactly committed to. Even if they prove me wrong I don't think there's anything to worry about with regards to O/F. If anything it's only highlighting the importance of their relationship, enough that they're bringing in a parallel/contrast. I just don't see how she can be anything but dark. 

On another note, I'm looking forward to seeing Rutina Wesley on the show. Will she be in flashbacks too?

 

This season is going to be so overcrowded. It's crazy!

[Chaser]

I'm not concerned about the implications for Oliver/Felicity. I've no doubt it's going to highlight the best of the couple. I just don't want to watch Oliver sex it up with another woman, past or not. I want all sex scenes to be Oliver and Felicity.

[Guest]

I'm not concerned about the implications for Oliver/Felicity. I've no doubt it's going to highlight the best of the couple. I just don't want to watch Oliver sex it up with another woman, past or not. I want all sex scenes to be Oliver and Felicity.

 

Haha, same. 

[tarotx]

Well they will probably play songs like radioactive and the sex agressive. While Felicity will have Romance and An Oliver who wants to be happy even if that happiness won't be easy. I'm thinking of a difference like Jerry McGuire's two Relationships.

[Chaser]

Whispers....but I want aggressive Olicity sex too...

But I do agree with your point.

[steeledwithakiss]

I want Oliver to go very dark in the FB and I hope they don't shy away from that. I want him to go dark and enjoy it and be disgusted with himself for enjoying it. In 3x01 he talked about not trusting people but we haven't seen that in the FB yet, so him no trusting that woman and betraying her/using her could be interesting. They could constrast it with F/O being a team and making decisions together

[kismet]

Well they will probably play songs like radioactive and the sex agressive. While Felicity will have Romance and An Oliver who wants to be happy even if that happiness won't be easy. I'm thinking of a difference like Jerry McGuire's two Relationships.

So after posting stuff about FS & OQ this morning. I couldn't get Jerry Maguire out of my head because all I could think about was that Secret Garden REMIX, that interspersed lines from the movie with the Springsteen Song. And all I could think about was FS in my head sounds a lot like Renee Zellweger in those clips in. And so many of us sound just like her sister. And Jerry's stupidity in that movie on point with OQ's stupidity. And how literally the "you had me at hello" moment in the movie was totally how they basically ended s3. Only thing missing was a SA running scene to complete the romantic cliche.

 

Its ironic how things come round circle at times... I can totally see them doing Jerry Maguire parallels & analogies. They even have a POC Yoda/Guru on the movie & the show. I feel like they borrow heavily from Rom Com/Drama cliches. I can't wait to see how they parallel the LI in the FB & present. Its gonna be either wicked good or tremendously horrible. There is no way to gracefully land the parallels with this group of writers.

[wonderwall]

I mean he has to go dark at some point considering how he was in season 1 (A cold blooded murderer with no remorse)

[AyChihuahua]

Same. I was looking for detached, psychopathy Oliver. A girlfriend doesn't fit that. Unless she is less of a girlfriend and more of someone he fools around with while they do bad deeds. That would parallel and contrast him in a real relationship with Felicity saving the city together.

I can't believe I'm defending Oliver, but he really just wasn't that bad in present day S1, and frankly he's still never done anything in terms of killing that has bothered me. If he was really a psychopath in S1 he would have killed Tommy when they were taken by those creepy guys, or Digg when Digg turned him down. He killed bad guys and bad guys' henchmen. I just don't think that's a big deal (on a tv show about a rising superhero, IRL I'd obviously be horrified). He wasn't torturing puppies or killing GOOD people who found out his secret or something. In S3 he killed Thea's drug dealer, which I have no problem with because the guy was dealing serious drugs to kids, and I had no problem with him torturing Shrieve because that guy mass-murdered a city. They have never once had him kill a good guy, and frankly I don't think they will. He probably needs a little more detachment, and a LOT more skills, but he's already on the detachment path since he chose not to go back to SC when he had the chance. He's not evil; he's never been evil in any of the flashbacks or present day, and I don't see any reason to think he will become evil in the flashbacks. He's not going to start kidnapping kids for human trafficking to brothels or murdering babies.

I want Oliver to go very dark in the FB and I hope they don't shy away from that. I want him to go dark and enjoy it and be disgusted with himself for enjoying it.

They won't go that dark. Their idea of blackest blackness in S3 was him faking brainwashing, fake kidnapping Lyla, killing a [probable] LOA member he knew wasn't really Digg, and killing RAG. I mean, I think he treated him team like utter shite, but that's not evil. If they show him murdering a little girl and LIKING it, the show is over. You can't have a superhero who ever, e.g., participated in gang-raping a sex trafficking victim. That to me is very dark, and they simply cannot write that for Oliver in this show. At most maybe he'll kill a crusading prosecutor or something, but at no time even in earliest S1 was he shown enjoying hurting even bad guys, and he has never in the history of the show killed or seriously injured a good guy, even when it would benefit him. For example, when Quentin and the other cops lured him in and trapped him on the roof, he didn't hurt any of them, or with the bank robbers when the guard had a gun on him.

Edited August 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[steeledwithakiss]

I never considered Jerry Maguire a rom-com even if it had all the clichés scenes. I never thought he was in love with her, even after his stupid speech, he just convinced me he didn't want to be alone. At least the writers on Arrow have convinced me Oliver is really in love with Felicity.

 

I know he'll go dark eventually but in s2 they should have made him really do something messed up to Slade. Instead he supposedly chose Sara over Shado when we all saw that wasn't the case. Slade's motivation for revenge suffered from that. I know Oliver is the hero of the show but S1 started with a pretty crazy murderous Oliver. I just hope they don't keep on shying away from that part of him. Maybe they're waiting for s5 to make him go really dark though.

 

I was not thinking rape or selling kids in the black market but Oliver is a Bratva captain. He had to have done a few questionable things to get there. Just like Sara being part of the LOA meant she was an assassin for some time.

Edited August 11, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[kismet]

I can't believe I'm defending Oliver, but he really just wasn't that bad in present day S1, and frankly he's still never done anything in terms of killing that has bothered me. If he was really a psychopath in S1 he would have killed Tommy when they were taken by those creepy guys, or Digg when Digg turned him down. He killed bad guys and bad guys' henchmen. I just don't think that's a big deal (on a tv show about a rising superhero, IRL I'd obviously be horrified). He wasn't torturing puppies or killing GOOD people who found out his secret or something. In S3 he killed Thea's drug dealer, which I have no problem with because the guy was dealing serious drugs to kids, and I had no problem with him torturing Shrieve because that guy mass-murdered a city. They have never once had him kill a good guy, and frankly I don't think they will. He probably needs a little more detachment, and a LOT more skills, but he's already on the detachment path since he chose not to go back to SC when he had the chance. He's not evil; he's never been evil in any of the flashbacks or present day, and I don't see any reason to think he will become evil in the flashbacks. He's not going to start kidnapping kids for human trafficking to brothels or murdering babies.

WOW! I can't believe you're defending him.... Funnier things have happened :)

 

Gotta agree with you he wasn't a cold blooded killer with no remorse in s1. He killed, but most were on his list or their henchmen. He killed to protect himself or his loved ones. So its not as bad. He certainly wasn't casually killing people or doing evil things. Was the body count higher than it needed to be probably. But it wasn't without remorse. He just compartmentalized it better. He was a trained assassin, and they are trained to strategically take down targets. It was just an extension of that except now he was doing it to protect SC, his family/friends & himself. There was a detachment present, but thats just self-preservation.

[kismet]

I never considered Jerry Maguire a rom-com even if it had all the clichés scenes. I never thought he was in love with her, even after his stupid speech, he just convinced me he didn't want to be alone. At least the writers on Arrow have convinced me Oliver is really in love with Felicity.

 

I know he'll go dark eventually but in s2 they should have made him really do something messed up to Slade. Instead he supposedly chose Sara over Shado when we all saw that wasn't the case. Slade's motivation for revenge suffered from that. I know Oliver is the hero of the show but S1 started with a pretty crazy murderous Oliver. I just hope they don't keep on shying away from that part of him. Maybe they're waiting for s5 to make him go really dark though.

Jerry Maguire is more a romantic dramedy.

 

OQ does lose control at times and then he gets dark & a little crazy in FB like with his first human kill & torturing Shrieve. I really hope they are not afraid to make him dark, but I think it will be more gradual in s4 & hit a peak in s5/6. But I want the way he gets there to be more complicated. I don't want to see him willingly becoming evil by choice. I want to almost see him stumble or be mislead into it and then for various reasons just not leave the darkness.

[AyChihuahua]

WOW! I can't believe you're defending him.... Funnier things have happened :)

 

Gotta agree with you he wasn't a cold blooded killer with no remorse in s1. He killed, but most were on his list or their henchmen. He killed to protect himself or his loved ones. So its not as bad. He certainly wasn't casually killing people or doing evil things. Was the body count higher than it needed to be probably. But it wasn't without remorse. He just compartmentalized it better. He was a trained assassin, and they are trained to strategically take down targets. It was just an extension of that except now he was doing it to protect SC, his family/friends & himself. There was a detachment present, but thats just self-preservation.

I tend to be very rational and evidence-based, and I base all my responses to Oliver on what he's actually done in the show. His behavior to his team was reprehensible, and his actions in knowingly putting all of SC in danger to save his sister even more so, but nothing he's ever been shown doing has been evil. Evil is causing harm for fun, or to something good, not causing harm to bad guys to right wrongs. Oliver has never, in his darkest moments, been portrayed as evil. Just like I was horrified that his team believed he could be brainwashed in three weeks when he has never been portrayed as anything but incredibly strong-minded, I was horrified that they all seemed to think he was really joining the LOA, like he'd he'd just chill as the boss of evil murderers for real.

I'm fine with him killing henchmen, because evil guys don't have bodyguards like Digg, they have henchmen. Those guys knew they were working for evil dudes, so I have no problem with him killing them. Maybe my idea of very dark is different, but for me that would be something like murdering children or gang-raping/collecting women/children for sex-trafficking, and the show won't go there, and can't go there, because it's not that kind of show. I mean, Guggie was talking about how Oliver was wading in blood by the end of S3 (whatever, it really wasn't that many people), but ALL THE PEOPLE HE KILLED WERE BAD. He didn't even kill Waller when he could have, and he had very good reason to do so.

[AyChihuahua]

I was not thinking rape or selling kids in the black market but Oliver is a Bratva captain. He had to have done a few questionable things to get there. Just like Sara being part of the LOA meant she was an assassin for some time.

He already saved Anatoly's life. Anatoly is a Pakhan. That alone would be plenty to get him into/a Captain of the Bratva. There's a decent chance he'll kill some of Anatoly's rivals if he ever gets to Russia (more bad guys, Faster Oliver, Kill Kill bad guys). At the end of the day this is a superhero show, and they cannot have a rising superhero going around murdering sweet little housewives or torturing kids.

[kismet]

I tend to be very rational and evidence-based, and I base all my responses to Oliver on what he's actually done in the show.

Yep, that's why your posts are always insightful and enjoyable to read. We might not always agree. But your points generally have supporting evidence - interpretation is always up for debate. But it makes for good forumming :)

[AyChihuahua]

Yep, that's why your posts are always insightful and enjoyable to read. We might not always agree. But your points generally have supporting evidence - interpretation is always up for debate. But it makes for good forumming :)

It's probably partially because I'm a lawyer, and also because I tend to be sort of Catholic (even though I'm not Catholic) in the sense that I think, to paraphrase Angel: if nothing you do matters, then all that matters is what you do. I care about people's actions, and if they do shitty stuff while having a terrible case of the sadz about it, well, they're still doing shitty stuff. Oliver has done a crapload of shitty stuff, but he has never, to my memory, done anything EVIL in either present day or flashbacks, even when it would help him. I mean heck, if he were evil he would have knocked off Quentin in the first episode, since Quentin had such an obvious obsession with taking him down, but he never even injured him.

[kismet]

^^ Agree, OQ's never been evil. I really don't want him to become evil either. I think there is a line between evil and dark. I don't mind if they push him way into the dark and perhaps just up to that line. But I never want to see him become evil. I just don't want that. There comes a point where there is no return and they should never bring OQ beyond that point. It just would be too hard to them have him be a hero in the present.

 

It's the same reason why I don't want DD to be FS's father. Evil is not something I want attached to my heroes. And there is no way that her father being evil, would not somehow tarnish her. It would be extremely hard to write her in a relationship with someone who is evil. And the way they describe him he seems like pure evil. Ras & MM did evil things, but they did have at least some moral code and it seemed like they were remorseful for some of their choices. They were anti-heroes to a certain degree.

 

I just think EVIL in Arrow needs to not be directly linked to any member of Team Arrow either in the present or flashback. Darkness yes, evil no.

[steeledwithakiss]

I don't believe they'll ever let Oliver go evil but yes there's still a big difference between FB Oliver and s1 Oliver. Dark!Oliver is not as far as I'm concerned killing little children on his way to the supermarket and I think everyone agrees it's a CW show and it's a superhero show so obviously it's never going to go there, I don't expect it nor want it to. However the Oliver who left Hong Kong is not the Oliver who arrived in SC. He might have killed only bad guys in S1 but he did it without hesitation, without feeling bad about it. We even had the VO at the beginning if he was torn about it we would have known. In Hong Kong everytime he had to torture someone you could see how it affected him. So sure, Anatoli could give him the Bratva title without doing anything but that would be a waste of the storyline. We need to see how Oliver got so cold about taking another human being's life even if that person was a bad guy. We saw him kill people that were protecting a man who scammed people of money. I'm not judging him or anything, (I actually really liked the concept, very refreshing after Smallville and on the CW no less) but I'm not sure white collars' crime deserve the death penalty.

[BkWurm1]

I think we are going to need him get to a point where he is casual about killing. His kills can still be bad men but I think he needs to get too comfortable with it and then have something happen that wakes him up to the path he is on that sends him instead back to Starling to begin to make amends ostentatiously for his father but for himself as well. I think he has to either cross a line or stand right on it and only not go ver at the last second.

I think we also need to see him more on guard or at least get burned more cause he at this point keeps making some real good friends. Ok some later try to kill him, but that doesn't mean they weren't friends.

[Morrigan2575]

That contrast has an important role in the new season, as Oliver isn’t the man he once was. “It’s tricky with Oliver, because the Oliver of the flashbacks is very different from the Oliver of present day,” he says.

Though, the show itself is also very different. Guggenheim continues, “Because we’re going lighter in tone in present day, we’re going darker in flashbacks. This isn’t going to be a fun, rollicking romance in the past. But it does exist to contrast what’s going on in the present.” He adds, “The truth is, had Oliver and Felicity not gotten together in the present, I don’t know if we would have thought to give Oliver a love interest in the past.”

So fear

 

Is it me or does this just sound like another round of oh nooooos  Moonlighting Curse!?  We can't have a happy couple already in a stable relationship on this show!  Quick let's break them up again...no can't do that either we just got off of agnstapalooza...oh i know, we'll give him a past love interest and have it be all angsty/dark/sexy because that will keep people from getting bored in the present.

[tv echo]

They're never going to get rid of flashbacks now that present-day Oliver (and consequently the show) is going lighter.  The flashbacks allow MG to indulge in his dark side and make at least portions of the show very dark - which he seems to prefer - and also provide plenty of opportunity to give Oliver multiple love interests - which some fans seem to prefer.

 

ETA: I don't know that they can make Oliver too dark in the flashbacks.  I was under the impression that what he did as Al Sah-Him was supposed to be darker than anything he's ever done before.

Edited August 11, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

The flashbacks aren't about turning Oliver evil -- they're about turning him into a SOLDIER. A one man army soldier who'll finish his mission regardless of the means. That's what all the killing in S1 was about, imo. It wasn't so much sociopathy [although there were serious mental issues involved, mainly PTSD], it was that Oliver was waging a *war*.

He fought the war, and the war won.

I think they can make him go pretty dark and still be able to broadcast at 8pm. He probably won't be traffiking women and children, but it can be drugs and guns. Shadowspire and/or Bratva will have to turn him into a soldier somehow, and a whole lot of both mob and drug traffiking is based on chain of command, and foot soldiers, that they borrowed from armed forces. Because structured order actually works for both sides.

Waller was trying to make Oliver into a hitman in Hong Kong, in the episode with the Tommy flashbacks. Maybe they'll go back to that. Mob Hitman is super dark for 8pm on the CW.

[Chaser]

Is it me or does this just sound like another round of oh nooooos Moonlighting Curse!? We can't have a happy couple already in a stable relationship on this show! Quick let's break them up again...no can't do that either we just got off of agnstapalooza...oh i know, we'll give him a past love interest and have it be all angsty/dark/sexy because that will keep people from getting bored in the present.

My thoughts exactly. I was confused a bit when he talked about how if Oliver and Felicity weren't together then there probably wouldn't be love interest in the past because I figured they were still following their big love plans. However maybe they realised angst doesn't work for Oliver and Felicity so they put them in a stable place and decided to have Oliver endugle in past shenanigans. Which I'm actually fine with as long as Olicity gets the attention they deserve. I don't want the old flame to get the sexy.

For some reason I always pictured Oliver as kind of the enforcer role in Bravta. We may hear what they are involved in but we are mostly going to get Oliver's tunnel view.

[AyChihuahua]

I think I have a different definition of "very dark." I don't care if he trafficks guns (I don't think he'll traffick drugs, bc of Thea) and I don't see being a Mob hitman as any big deal, as long as he kills other Mob guys and not their young kids. I actually think he's an idiot to have a no-kill rule (if Slade doesn't eventually get off the island and come after Felicity it's only bc Manu doesn't want to come back). I would have been completely fine with him killing every single LOA person other than Nyssa, and I wouldn't have been that upset if he'd killed her, too (I like her, but she is a lifelong assassin after all). Maybe I've watched too many 80s action movies, but he can kill bad guys all day long in the flashbacks and I won't consider that evil or even particularly dark.

[apinknightmare]

After seeing Oliver struggle with torturing people at the beginning of S3, it was striking (I don't want to say shocking, because we know Oliver is/was a killer) to see him sitting there with a broken, bloody Shrieve, his fingers all cut off after being tortured, and Oliver not looking the slightest bit bothered by it. There's no arguing that Shrieve was a terrible person, but torturing vs. killing - taking pleasure in it, doing it automatically without a second thought...that's the kind of "evolution" I thought we were going to see with Oliver. That's why I thought it was kind of weird for them to give him a love interest, because that kind of person is one who is withdrawing from human connection, not getting involved. Although, I suppose this relationship could be short-lived, or trigger something in him that makes him withdraw more. 

 

So, I don't think it's necessarily got anything to do with what kind of actions are "dark" or not, but it's how those actions, when carried out by Oliver, take him away from who he used to be and make him into someone else. Make him into someone who is casual about killing and torturing people.

Edited August 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I think I have a different definition of "very dark."

 

I's not that *I* think mob hitman is super dark. That's like 20% dark in my personal scale. But they can only go as dark as 8pm broadcast on the CW will allow them. The limit of the amount of dark they can go is the moment the censors go LOL NO on them.

[Chaser]

Sometimes it's not the actions, but the response to the actions. Oliver tortures bad guy to get information needed to save thousands of lives. I don't know if I would consider that DARK. Having no reaction to torturing another human being, good or bad? That's DARK to me.

[dtissagirl]

 That's why I thought it was kind of weird for them to give him a love interest, because that kind of person is one who is withdrawing from human connection, not getting involved. Although, I suppose this relationship could be short-lived, or trigger something in him that makes him withdraw more.

 

I think the term "love interest" throws us off too, because the word "love" is right there. But for all we know this is not a relationship based on affection, or maybe there aren't any feelings at all involved. Or maybe there are feelings involved, and then it goes horribly wrong, or the feelings get toxic. It's not like Oliver even knew how to have a healthy relationship at that point anyway.

[AyChihuahua]

Sometimes it's not the actions, but the response to the actions. Oliver tortures bad guy to get information needed to save thousands of lives. I don't know if I would consider that DARK. Having no reaction to torturing another human being, good or bad? That's DARK to me.

Hmm, maybe I'm an evil psychopath, because I'd be fine with that. I had no problem with him torturing that bomber for info in S3 flashback. Probably the worst I saw was him arrowing non-bad guys for info (Dollmaker's lawyer, the storage place guy in crossover). Actually, Dollmaker's lawyer doesn't bother me, but I guess arrowing the storage place guy counts as seriously injuring a good (no reason to think that guy was bad) guy.

Yep, too many 80s action movies. Arnold S killed ERRYBODY in Commando, and I totally loved it.

[kismet]

After seeing Oliver struggle with torturing people at the beginning of S3, it was striking (I don't want to say shocking, because we know Oliver is/was a killer) to see him sitting there with a broken, bloody Shrieve, his fingers all cut off after being tortured, and Oliver not looking the slightest bit bothered by it. There's no arguing that Shrieve was a terrible person, but torturing vs. killing - taking pleasure in it, doing it automatically without a second thought...that's the kind of "evolution" I thought we were going to see with Oliver. That's why I thought it was kind of weird for them to give him a love interest, because that kind of person is one who is withdrawing from human connection, not getting involved. Although, I suppose this relationship could be short-lived, or trigger something in him that makes him withdraw more. 

 

So, I don't think it's necessarily got anything to do with what kind of actions are "dark" or not, but it's how those actions, when carried out by Oliver, take him away from who he used to be and make him into someone else. Make him into someone who is casual about killing and torturing people.

There are all types of relationships. Some thrive on deepening a human connection in a positive light and some thrive off more toxic levels. I can see him being in a relationship that provides some level of comfort but really isn't about connecting with his humanity. If this person brings him to a darker place and he finds that thrives there than it could parallel/contrast his healthier relationship in present. I think the word choice of love interest can seem positive or happy, but there are lots of love interests that can be negative or dark. I'm thinking of bad lifetime movie couplings and controlling relationships, as some examples. Not every romantic relationship or LI a person has is good for them. I feel like this new girl is going to somehow get significant influence over OQ and the results are not going to be good.

 

Honestly, the more I think about it the happier I am that he might have a possible darker LI in FB. It is a place for the writers to vent & process all of their angst. Hopefully, this will keep them away from producing unnecessary angst on O/F for reasons. Clearly, OQ gets more messed up than he already is in the FB, so he has to get there some way. What better way than to have a romantic love for his present day Hero journey and a toxic "love" for his FB anti-hero journey? The parallels are just to tempting for this writers room to avoid. They couldn't do it with Shado or Sara, perhaps they were gonna try it with Mae until they realized how soap-operaesque that might be. Plus the whole keeping OQ celibate in s3 both in FB/PD to solidify O/F as true love pairing.

 

It also makes logical sense to me that after watching the Yamashiro family for whole year and then experiencing Akio's death. OQ default response would be to seek comfort/solace in an attractive female. And per usual, his choices (esp in romantic pairings) are not always the best. So far in FB he has found allies & friends. So he probably thought he could trust whoever this girl is. But as someone mentioned above its getting to that point in the story where OQ's trust issues need to have some origin. He needs to be burned by one his so-called allies/friends without there being extenuating circumstances like mirakuru or Fyer's threatening Shado's life for Yao Fei's cooperation. Someone just has to outright betray him willingly & by free choice. Who better to do that than a woman he's sleeping with?

[AyChihuahua]

I feel like this new girl is going to somehow get significant influence over OQ and the results are not going to be good.

He really does have some weird stuff going on with women. Other than China White, nearly every woman we've ever seen him meet has had significant influence over him. If China White had been a little nicer to him he might have ended up in the Triad.

She's definitely going to be evil.

Edited August 11, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

The series still has at least 3 more seasons to play with, he might still wind up somehow connected to Triad & China White - we still have no idea how he speaks Mandarin or got those Asian character tattoos.

 

I don't think that will happen, but hey you never know with these writers.

[Guest]

From the TV guide excerpt in spoilers:

 

"Laurel is very excited to have her sister back and is a key player in the decision to [bring her back from the dead," Mericle says.

 

See, during SDCC they made it sound like Laurel was instrumental in the LoT but this is something different. And also obvious because of course Laurel would be the one who wants to bring her sister back from the dead! 

 

I'm pleased to read something about Diggle looking for closure on his brother's death. FINALLY. I wish there was more about Felicity though. There is literally nothing, apart from Mr Terrific working with her at PT. Well that's nice and all but what about FELICITY?

[NumberCruncher]

What about Felicity, indeed. *sigh* Yet again another emphasis on a soon-to-be masked hero. And just when I was getting hopeful that Felicity's storyline might actually be about her this time...

[kismet]

Am I a bad person, because I want SL to rise from the dead and then beat the crap out LL for realsies this time?

 

Of course, narcissistic self-absorbed LL would think to rise her sister from the dead dead, its probably just so she can get her relationship back with her father and has nothing to do with SL. She probably doesn't even think about the consequences or hurt it might cause SL. I bet she'll probably get mad that SL couldn't even use the LP right & once again messed up LL's precious life. I can see it now, "why couldn't you just be grateful like Thea?". Well maybe its because Thea wasn't dead dead & buried for months. No way this LP is gonna be as smooth if they waited months to do it.

 

Granted I still want DD to be responsible for the resurrection of SL as part of his evil plan. But I'm not sure that will happen, not the way they keep dropping LL hints.

[Sakura12]

Am I a bad person, because I want SL to rise from the dead and then beat the crap out LL for realsies this time?

 

That's what I hope happens, I want Sara to be throwing a glass at her head. I wonder if Sara's resurrection will be like Buffy's. Where she liked where she was because she was finally free from all her pain. She told that assassin she killed that death is the only way to be free. Then Laurel ruins it by bringing her back with even more pain to deal with. I do want Sara to be mad at Laurel or Quentin if they bring her back, if they do it was for them not of her. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm curious about the circumstances under which Laurel wants Sara back. Thea's alleged side-effects must not be very bad if she'd even consider it. Does she want her back just to have her back? Is there some kind of role she thinks Sara can fulfill on the team? Why would Malcolm allow it, and if he did, why wouldn't they be suspicious about why? 

 

Is the fact that they buried her in a pine box without embalming her not going to be an issue? Because the freaking stench would be horrific, not to mention the fact that after a year, there probably wouldn't be much of her left. MINOR DETAILS, I GUESS

[AyChihuahua]

Buffy's resurrection was so well done. Willow killed a fawn to get the blood for the spell, so you knew it was bad juju. Finding out she'd been in heaven was heartbreaking: "There was no pain/no fear nor doubt/'til they pulled me out/of heaven...I think I was in heaven."

Before they were forced to bring back Sara for the spinoff, I would have said they'd do the same thing they did in Canaries, with Sara being beaten and/or giving Laurel her blessing. But Sara's more important now, so she doesn't have to be so deferential to Laurel. It could be interesting.

[jay741982]

Whispers....but I want aggressive Olicity sex too...

But I do agree with your point.

I want Aggressive Olicity sex too. These two have so much love passion heat and desire for each other that you know they would have some sexytimes where they rip each other's clothes off and screw like Rabbits lol. Oliciters deserve an aggressive sex scene MG LOL

[kismet]

I just don't think we are hearing a lot about FS, because there is just not a lot going on for her in s4a. We basically already know what her big plot will be for 4a. They alluded to her owning PT (or whatever they rename it), being OQ's sugar mama, finding RP & somehow Mr. Terrific is going to help her out with all of that. So similar to s3, most of her plot will be less about her and more about RP and the fallout from his parting present. Seriously, still irked he never told her, he was signing the company over to her.

 

I feel like s4b & 5a will be when they get around to real FS centric plot line that shows her grappling with some of the more difficult concepts of loyalty, trust, family & sacrifice. The plot line will likely be FS's father, whom I think will be a criminal but not 100% bad. He will be complicated ethically & loyalty wise to TA. The fact that DS works in Vegas casinos and her father (who would be in prison, but still would have saved others) abandoned the family out of the blue makes me think that there has to be some type of mobster/crime syndicate reason he just vanished. And I think that will be when they start to connect OQ to the Bratva in FB/present. There is something too Shakespearian & tempting to not somehow have FS's family wrapped up in Bratva stuff that somehow comes back to haunt OQ. But I think that story has so many possibilities & angles that it needs to wait until it has enough time to do it justice. And if I have to wait for a quality plot line, then I guess I will wait. I'd prefer that over a rushed plotline.

[NumberCruncher]

My only problem with having to wait until late S4 or even S5 is that her storyline keeps getting shoved to the back burner as it is. We were supposed to learn more about her family back in S2 and here it is 2 seasons later and based upon what WM said at SDCC there still aren't any concrete plans to explore her paternity which lessens the likelihood that DD is her dad. They keep hinting that we'll find out who he is, but where are the receipts? Instead they keep using Felicity to tell everyone else's stories. It's frustrating.

[Starfish35]

I've been working late a lot and traveling, so haven't had time to do much lately but look in here and there. So apologies in advance if I've missed something that makes this unlikely or rules it out altogether. But is there any chance JR Bourne could be playing Felicity's dad? The reason I ask (well ok, one reason - I just like JR Bourne) is that I saw something somewhere that seemed to indicate that he was going to be in multiple episodes. Now that could very well be that he's just a major HIVE henchman. But it did get me to wondering.

The major argument against it I think is that his comics character sounds like a nobody - certainly not someone that would explain DR's comment about knowing where Felicity gets her intelligence from. So I don't know.

[Velocity23]

Apparently episode 4 of Arrow is called Beyond Redemption.

 

Confided to GATV by Marc at TCA party.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

I've been working late a lot and traveling, so haven't had time to do much lately but look in here and there. So apologies in advance if I've missed something that makes this unlikely or rules it out altogether. But is there any chance JR Bourne could be playing Felicity's dad? The reason I ask (well ok, one reason - I just like JR Bourne) is that I saw something somewhere that seemed to indicate that he was going to be in multiple episodes. Now that could very well be that he's just a major HIVE henchman. But it did get me to wondering.

The major argument against it I think is that his comics character sounds like a nobody - certainly not someone that would explain DR's comment about knowing where Felicity gets her intelligence from. So I don't know.

 

He could be! I think the only argument against it is that WM said at comic con that they were still trying to figure out how to work Felicity's dad into a storyline. Seems to me that since fans have been asking about him for a while that if they did a) know who he was and b) when he'd show up, they would've teased that a little. 

[Chaser]

He has also fillmed scenes with just Emily if I understood a tweet correctly. That could be for any number of reasons tho. Emily is also the only one of the Arrow cast he is following on social media, that could mean they have plans to film a lot together or that they meet earlier thru Colton.

I wouldn't be opposed to him playing her Dad and I honestly don't care if he is a big name or not since I think they do better with the license to play.

Personally I don't think he is Papa Smoak. Really hope we get something soon on him or Felicity.

[Starfish35]

Hmm yeah I guess it's probably unlikely. :( Ah well.

ETA: well maybe they just want it to be a major OMG moment when it's suddenly "Dad!" And Double Down with the playing cards connection.......... Ok ok I'll admit it - I just really want JR Bourne to be playing her dad. :( *sigh* Oh well.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Starfish35