All Episodes Talk: Season 2

[Lisin]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Jazzy24]

My all time favorite season of any show. Season 2 of Buffy was EPIC!!! And I especially loved it because I'm a huge huge Butfy/Angel fan

My Favorite Episodes

1. Becoming 1&2

2. Innocence

3. Surprise

4, Halloween

4. Passions

5. School Hard

6. Ted

7. What's My Line 1&2

I love all of season 2 but I always pull out these episodes

[harrie]

I like your list, jazzy24.  My S2 favorites are:  Lie to Me, Passion, Halloween, School Hard and Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. BB&B is silly, but I like it.

 

 

From Small Talk –
 

QUOTE
Lie to Me is possibly my all-time favorite Buffy episode.

Really?!I that's a good ep but I don't think I know anyone who've said it was their fave. I would love to read why harrie.You can put it in the season thread if you want.

I like Lie to Me because it captures the spirit of growing up – or at least the loss of innocence aspect of it.  The closing lines encapsulate the episode and the sentiment:

      Buffy: Does it ever get easy?
      Giles: You mean life?
      Buffy: Yeah, does it get easy?
      Giles: What do you want me to say?
      Buffy: Lie to me.
      Giles: Yes. It's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true. The bad guys are easily distinguished by
      their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies and... everybody
      lives happily ever after.
      Buffy: Liar.

It hurts  to be let down on any level by someone you trust  – whether it’s an old friend who resurfaces with an ulterior (and deadly) motive, a partner who cheats, or a friend who you find out has been trashing you behind your back.  I learned that lesson probably 40-some years ago, and I still wonder why people treat each other badly, betray trusts, etc.  No matter how much a person may want to grow up, I think they still want to be able to believe in others – and you just can’t.  You can only really trust yourself – and even that can get iffy.  And that is why Lie to Me speaks to me.

 

(I’m not really deranged, it just looks like it when I put my thoughts in writing.)

Edited April 8, 2014 by harrie

[Endeavour]

Not sure what my favorite ep would be, but I always like those moments between Buffy and Giles. The one in Lie to Me is a great example. One of my favorites is from Innocence:

Buffy: You must be so disappointed in me.

Giles: No. No, no, I'm not.

Buffy: But this is all my fault.

Giles: No. I don't believe it is. Do you want me to wag my finger at you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. A-and I can. I know that you loved him. And... he... has proven more than once that he loved you. You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months a-are gonna - are gonna be hard... I-I suspect on all of us, but... if it's guilt you're looking for, Buffy, I'm-I'm not your man. All you will get from me is-is my support. And my respect.

[Dianthus]

School Hard marks the introduction of Spike, my favorite character. What's not to love there?

I was into Buffy/Angel at the time, and devastated by the events of Becoming I & II.

[Hybridcookie]

Season 2 is my favourite season with Season 5 in second place.

 

I loved the Angelus arc. Buffy was the first proper show I ever watched (I was 7 when it premiered) and seeing Angel go evil and hurt Buffy and everyone was awful and painful (in a good way of course).

 

My favourite episodes are Passion, I Only Have Eyes For You, Becoming, Lie To Me, Killed by Death, Surprise and Innocence,

[rohaina]

So a friend of mine recently gave me the full series box set for my birthday. She was a big fan, always tried to get me into the show but I dunno, I just never bothered. I like genre shows but Buffy just never seemed the right fit for me. But I have to say. Could I have been more wrong?! I'm up till Innocence in Season 2 and like I said, just wow. I am loving it. The only thing I'm bummed about is that obviously I'm spoiled for some of the stuff. Maybe not a lot but like I always knew Angel would go bad. I also know somewhere down the line I think either Giles or Joyce dies? And that there's a long lost sister out there somewhere. And that Spike and Buffy have a thing. At some point. 

 

Anyway. So yeah, I was pretty much hooked from the pilot. The setting and clothes and all felt terribly dated but the writing and the characters pulled me in. Pretty much after the first ep only you kinda know this is going to be an epic bond between these characters. I thought the Master was way campy but it kinda fit with the tone of the first season. 

 

There's no doubt that the show found its footing in the second season though. So far I've loved all the eps except I think it was Inca Mummy Girl? I love Buffy. She is so my kinda heroine. She kicks ass but she's got heart. I love the growth in Willow and Cordelia already and I actively look forward to Giles and Xander scenes. I think Spike and Dru are an absolute hoot. But the part I really like is that they do seem like a formidable threat too, in a loose cannon-y sort of way. But ofcourse now Angels gone bad, so who knows what'll happen. The thing that really caught me off guard was Jenny's involvement. I really like her and Giles together. I hope they can work through this!

 

But the most surprising thing for me so far is how invested I've gotten into Buffy/Angel. I remember my friend mentioning it back in the day and then I know theres a spin off somewhere down the line and I always used to think the showrunners probably figured out how gross a teenager and a hundreds year old vamp sounds, but here I am. Completely in awe of their chemistry. They seem genuinely in love with each other when these two are together. I wanted desperately to know more about Angel, I hope we still get to find out? Their instinctive pull towards each other has been nice also I think because the show so far hasn't been utterly consumed by it. They've spent time on other characters too and that's what's gotten me really hooked. The relationships, all of them so far, have added to the overall story, not taken away from it. I am really liking Willow/Oz and Xander/Cordy too.

 

Angel in Innocence was absolutely chilling. Brrr.

[Earl Is Dead]

rohaina I hope you post more of your thoughts in these threads as you continue to watch.  Your enthusiam and unspoiledness [sic?] is delightful.

[Jazzy24]

Speaking of the Angelus arc I have to say he was always my favorite Big Bad of all Buffy villains because he did the most damage especially to Buffy :-(

[Endeavour]

Let us know what you think as you keep watching, rohaina. It's nice to see a fresh perspective.

[rohaina]

Thank you everyone! It's so nice to have found this place. I feel like I missed out on all the fun by not watching the show in real time. Oh well, better late than never! Hoping to catch up on a few eps tonight, for sure. 

[rohaina]

My god, could Passion have been any more of a punch in the gut? Shit. I can't believe Jenny is dead.. And the way she was killed. Angelus is one twisted mofo. I just can't believe it. And just when it looked like her and Giles would reconcile after Buffy gave her the best version of forgiveness she could, really. Evil move, show. Evil. It was a brilliant ep though I have to say. Angelus's obsession with Buffy was really explored well. His moves were so cold and calculated and yet fueled by, passion? Creepy. I can't get over how legit scary that Angelus-chases-Jenny scene was. It was such a dogged pursuit by him and then snap. Literally. And the scenes after where Giles finds her body and then Angelus watches Buffy. It's sick how he actively sought out her pain. I think that fight scene between him and Buffy later on could very well have ended in her killing him. She was that hopped up on her anger but obviously, Giles. Another great scene, the one that followed with them outside the warehouse. So raw. They need each other, plain and simple. And then in all of this, there are brilliant moments of humour like when Spike says to Dru, 'no point going in unless you're tagged.' Lol! A rollercoaster ep. 

 

I wasn't sure about Phases and Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered following Innocence. Not because I didn't enjoy them. I did. BB&B in particular. But tonally, I don't know they just felt a little off but then I didn't know what a tragedy fest I was going to be in just an  ep later. RIP Jenny. 

[Jazzy24]

Every time I watch "Passions" during the Angelus and Jenny scene I always think she's going to get away than she doesn't :-(

And Xander pissed me off in that episode when at Giles' house he rants about how he always hated Angel and knew something like this would happen and how he was rooting for Giles to kill Angelus.

I call bullcrap because Xander never hated Angel because he was a vampire he hated Angel because Angel "got" Buffy and Xander didn't, I didn't like Xander at all during this arc, such a ass.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Jazzy24

[rohaina]

I've only obviously seen up until I Only Have Eyes For You and I don't really know what's coming up ahead but I agree that there's very little indication so far of Xander ever having liked Angel. Maybe a throwaway line of acceptance here and there earlier this season but he's obviously accepted the Angelus thing in a far more gung-ho manner than the rest have. I don't know if I blame him entirely though. He's seventeen, his crush on Buffy has not subsided completely, despite his relationship with Cordy, and the combination of the two leads to a certain irrationality when it comes to Angel. Now, I don't think it's Xander's best quality, but I can somehow still see it. Having said that, I do hope that his crush on Buffy dies a natural death as I wished Willow's on Xander's would end too, because I really don't want to see any inter-dating between these three. Their bond is too familial, for that, I think. I also really want to see Xander and Cordy give it a real go, as I think the two are fab together. Also, desperately hoping against hope here that Angelus's soul can be restored here because otherwise I see a very grim scenario where's he's shipped off to his spin-off while still soulless to create havoc elsewhere and him and Buffy never getting a proper resolution.

 

As of now though, I also have to give real credit to the show for making Angelus so intensely unlikeable. I absolutely despise him, and that's a real testament considering I loved Angel.

 

I really liked IOHEFY. Buffy's pain and guilt were so palpable as was Giles desire to communicate with Jenny again. I liked Killed by Death too, although it's an odd one because I loved what the ep did for the various characterizations but I hated the actual monster storyline. Cordy was a real MVP in KBD I thought.

 

Every time I watch "Passions" during the Angelus and Jenny scene I always think she's going to get away than she doesn't :-(

 

 

It was brutal. :(

Edited May 2, 2014 by rohaina

[Loandbehold]

Every time I watch "Passions" during the Angelus and Jenny scene I always think she's going to get away than she doesn't :-(

And Xander pissed me off in that episode when at Giles' house he rants about how he always hated Angel and knew something like this would happen and how he was rooting for Giles to kill Angelus.

I call bullcrap because Xander never hated Angel because he was a vampire he hated Angel because Angel "got" Buffy and Xander didn't, I didn't like Xander at all during this arc, such a ass.

While his jealousy definitely played a part, Xander also had good reason to hate Angel/Angelus. In School Hard, Angel serves Xander up to Spike on a silver platter with his "let's share him" ploy(?). And, in BB&B, Angelus pulls Xander out of Buffy's second story window and tries to kill him. So, two attempts on Xander's life gives him good cause to hate Angel in my book. He also had to shame Angel into going to the Master's lair to try to help Buffy. And, let us not forget that Angel is jealous of Xander as well. Xander is 17, Angel is 240. I would expect Angel to be the more mature one.

[Jazzy24]

While his jealousy definitely played a part, Xander also had good reason to hate Angel/Angelus. In School Hard, Angel serves Xander up to Spike on a silver platter with his "let's share him" ploy(?). And, in BB&B, Angelus pulls Xander out of Buffy's second story window and tries to kill him. So, two attempts on Xander's life gives him good cause to hate Angel in my book. He also had to shame Angel into going to the Master's lair to try to help Buffy. And, let us not forget that Angel is jealous of Xander as well. Xander is 17, Angel is 240. I would expect Angel to be the more mature one.

Well Xander's speech basically was him saying that he knew Angel would always turn into a murderous vampire killer and that's why he didn't like him.

Angel's whole interaction with the Scooby gang have been nothing but positive and he's helped them, Xander's "I told you so" is not valid

And Angel should have acted more mature with his Xander interactions

[Dianthus]

Welcome, Rohaina, you're in for quite a ride! Just remember that Joss Whedon is a bastard person who likes to hurt us for our own good. I'll try not to spoil you too much, but it won't be easy. 

[rohaina]

Becoming I & II - Wow. What an incredible way to end what has easily been one of the best seasons of television I've ever seen. The best part is that I've gotten my husband into the show too! He was protesting sooo much  about me watching it, and I kept asking him to give it a go, but he wouldn't. The last half of the season, he would randomly pop in and out and pass random comments on what the characters were doing and what they should've been doing and then by Becoming I, he was watching just that much more, and by Becoming II, not only was he watching but during the Buffy/Angelus sword fight, was completely into it! He keeps saying its the sword fight that did him in lol. Now we're watching season 3 together!

 

Back to Becoming, it was such a fantastic character study of Angel in a way. Right from the start of the ep, as he encountered Darla, to the modern day transition to who he'd become. Those choices and chances along the way, all contributing to who he was in the now. Brilliant stuff. I really loved the use of flashbacks. I thought the rest of the characters had some good moments too. I like Willow's interest in magic and she seems to want to learn. I can see her becoming a real asset. Giles. Oh, Giles. My heart broke for him during the torture scenes. Cordy had some real human moments, of fear and compassion. I like Oz too and hope he gets more of a role later. 

 

One of my absolute favourite parts was the Buffy-Spike team up. How amazing was that? I was not expecting that all and yet it worked on so many levels. I love Spike. What a teriffic villain motivated by his own self interest above all else. The whole Spike  in Buffy's living room bit was comedy gold. 

 

Poor Kendra. :( Although the whole two-slayers thing never really resonated with me, so happy to be done with it in a way. 

 

Another chillingly, beautifully orchestrated moment was the Buffy-Angelus fight at the end of the first part and how he's stalling her and then with Buffy's mad rush back to the school and the voice over in the background. Seriously good TV and again I can't believe I was dumb enough never to have watched this show.

 

But the ep belonged to Buffy. Love her, love her, love her. I felt so much for her throughout the ep. I can't remember the last time I was so invested in a fictional character. With everything that was thrown her way, she just soldiered on, which is why her breakdown at the end made so much sense. The fight with Angelus and when she's cornered and he asks what she has left - dare I say it, was just epic. And then the "close your eyes" and. Yeah. 

 

I did have a few minor quibbles though. Like I felt that the Acathla plan just came out of nowhere. How much of it had to do with the events in IOHEFY, I wonder? Was Angelus beginning to feel, was Angel breaking through somehow and so Angelus thought 'to hell with it', literally?

Also, where did Willow get that sudden burst of energy from?

And I really don't like the resurfacing of the Willow/Xander thing, this time from Xander's side. I adore him and Cordy and Willow and Oz together.

[Dianthus]

Back in the day, I played an on-line BtVS  "dating game." I got Oz, best of three tries. The third time, I got Spike. I love both of them, and the idea of Spike and Oz sitting around discussing music.

Spike and Joyce are totes adorbs.

[CletusMusashi]

Another reason that Xander feels killing Angelus is a no-brainer is that he's already been through the "What do you do when someone turns into a vampire?" schtick:

In the pilot, he had to kill Jesse.

After that, the writers don't like to talk about Jesse.

But his best friend who ended up having to kill him probably still remembers.

And making exceptions to the rule for people who you like less... probably not a thing.

[DAngelus]

 

This ep gives us some major foreshadowing for s6.

 

I hesitate to use the word "foreshadowing" for accidental coincidences.  "Foreshadowing" is planned.  None of the S6 crap (indeed, not even Spike surviving past mid-season of this year) was even a mote in Joss's eye at this point.

 

Which is not to say that this episode isn't loaded with foreshadowing, inferior and best-forgotten (if only I could) future rehashes aside.  Basically, the whole season is spelled out, from Buffy challenging Angel to a fight, to Angel saying she's not as strong as she thinks she is (wrong, Broody, when the chips are down, she's stronger), to Buffy's Giles-as-the-Master nightmare foreshadowing Angel's turn, to the "P.S. this is a trap" used to decoy Buffy away from the Scoobies, which Angel makes use of again in Becoming, Part 1.  But we also get multiple follow-ups to Prophecy Girl (PTSD, Bitch of the Year dance, and the separation of the "Fighting Scoobs" [buffy/Angel/not-yet-a-buttmonkey Xander] from the bookish/support types [Willow/Giles/Jenny/Cordy] in the previous ep being used as a plot point here), and the call-back to Welcome to the Hellmouth with Buffy's "I'm gonna kill them all.  That ought to distract them" plan mirroring Angel's over-dramatic reading of her motives in their first meeting.  She is a very different girl in September than she was in March, that's for sure.  (And she'll be even more different by the following June.)

 

"So…are you gonna kill me? Or are we just making small talk?"  I miss badass Buffy; it's amazing how quickly she disappears.  (She's barely in S3/S4, never mind the Dawnverse.) Oh well, we'll always have 34 eps of 16-mm brilliance; that's more than most shows get.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 5:30 AM, Jazzy24 said:

My all time favorite season of any show. Season 2 of Buffy was EPIC!!! And I especially loved it because I'm a huge huge Butfy/Angel fan

My Favorite Episodes

1. Becoming 1&2

2. Innocence

3. Surprise

4, Halloween

4. Passions

5. School Hard

6. Ted

7. What's My Line 1&2

I love all of season 2 but I always pull out these episodes

Seconded although it's actually 'Passion', Passions is the soap opera Spike and Joyce like. But no Killed By Death? Or 'I Only Have Eyes for You' if you're a Bangeler?

Edited July 21, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 12:04 AM, harrie said:

I like your list, jazzy24.  My S2 favorites are:  Lie to Me, Passion, Halloween, School Hard and Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. BB&B is silly, but I like it.

 

 

From Small Talk –
 

I like Lie to Me because it captures the spirit of growing up – or at least the loss of innocence aspect of it.  The closing lines encapsulate the episode and the sentiment:

      Buffy: Does it ever get easy?
      Giles: You mean life?
      Buffy: Yeah, does it get easy?
      Giles: What do you want me to say?
      Buffy: Lie to me.
      Giles: Yes. It's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true. The bad guys are easily distinguished by
      their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies and... everybody
      lives happily ever after.
      Buffy: Liar.

It hurts  to be let down on any level by someone you trust  – whether it’s an old friend who resurfaces with an ulterior (and deadly) motive, a partner who cheats, or a friend who you find out has been trashing you behind your back.  I learned that lesson probably 40-some years ago, and I still wonder why people treat each other badly, betray trusts, etc.  No matter how much a person may want to grow up, I think they still want to be able to believe in others – and you just can’t.  You can only really trust yourself – and even that can get iffy.  And that is why Lie to Me speaks to me.

 

(I’m not really deranged, it just looks like it when I put my thoughts in writing.)

BBB is still my all time favourite ep and the one that made me a fan. My only problem with 'Lie to Me' (Lily yay!) is couldn't we have had an actual character who featured in the Buffy movie? 

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 2:34 AM, Endeavour said:

Not sure what my favorite ep would be, but I always like those moments between Buffy and Giles. The one in Lie to Me is a great example. One of my favorites is from Innocence:

Buffy: You must be so disappointed in me.

Giles: No. No, no, I'm not.

Buffy: But this is all my fault.

Giles: No. I don't believe it is. Do you want me to wag my finger at you and tell you that you acted rashly? You did. A-and I can. I know that you loved him. And... he... has proven more than once that he loved you. You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming months a-are gonna - are gonna be hard... I-I suspect on all of us, but... if it's guilt you're looking for, Buffy, I'm-I'm not your man. All you will get from me is-is my support. And my respect.

Yes, Buffy has the best father figure in the world as Joss observes in his commentary. And the best mother. Just wish we could have a scene in the comics where we see Dawn snuggling up with Buffy at the end as well as Joyce. 

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 12:02 AM, Dianthus said:

School Hard marks the introduction of Spike, my favorite character. What's not to love there?

I was into Buffy/Angel at the time, and devastated by the events of Becoming I & II.

Yeah, really the show kicked into high gear with Spike and Dru arriving, it became a brand new series. And that was the whole point of Becoming, knock the audience to the ground and leave them speechless. 

On ‎29‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 9:58 PM, Hybridcookie said:

Season 2 is my favourite season with Season 5 in second place.

 

I loved the Angelus arc. Buffy was the first proper show I ever watched (I was 7 when it premiered) and seeing Angel go evil and hurt Buffy and everyone was awful and painful (in a good way of course).

 

My favourite episodes are Passion, I Only Have Eyes For You, Becoming, Lie To Me, Killed by Death, Surprise and Innocence,

And that's why it mattered so much, it was easy to hate an enemy but your first real love? Or to quote Joss 'Buffy in pain, SHOW GOOD!' That was just the insane cleverness of the writing. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 7:12 PM, rohaina said:

Angel in Innocence was absolutely chilling. Brrr.

Angel didn't live there any more, that was Angelus. How did you like Passion?

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 10:40 PM, Jazzy24 said:

Speaking of the Angelus arc I have to say he was always my favorite Big Bad of all Buffy villains because he did the most damage especially to Buffy :-(

Because he got her in her heart, as did the situations in 3 and 5 making them probably the next best, 

On ‎01‎/‎05‎/‎2014 at 5:28 PM, rohaina said:

I wasn't sure about Phases and Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered following Innocence. Not because I didn't enjoy them. I did. BB&B in particular. But tonally, I don't know they just felt a little off but then I didn't know what a tragedy fest I was going to be in just an  ep later. RIP Jenny. 

But that's part of Buffy's genius, it isn't always one way or the other all the time, it could slot in the funny alongside the tragic and macabre. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎02‎/‎05‎/‎2014 at 5:22 PM, Loandbehold said:

While his jealousy definitely played a part, Xander also had good reason to hate Angel/Angelus. In School Hard, Angel serves Xander up to Spike on a silver platter with his "let's share him" ploy(?). And, in BB&B, Angelus pulls Xander out of Buffy's second story window and tries to kill him. So, two attempts on Xander's life gives him good cause to hate Angel in my book. He also had to shame Angel into going to the Master's lair to try to help Buffy. And, let us not forget that Angel is jealous of Xander as well. Xander is 17, Angel is 240. I would expect Angel to be the more mature one.

To be fair it very definitely was a ploy and I don't think Xander ever resented him for it. Plus he resented Angel long before BBB.

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2014 at 3:16 PM, rohaina said:

I did have a few minor quibbles though. Like I felt that the Acathla plan just came out of nowhere. How much of it had to do with the events in IOHEFY, I wonder? Was Angelus beginning to feel, was Angel breaking through somehow and so Angelus thought 'to hell with it', literally?

.

Interesting theory, I never considered that? 

On ‎08‎/‎05‎/‎2014 at 5:17 AM, CletusMusashi said:

Another reason that Xander feels killing Angelus is a no-brainer is that he's already been through the "What do you do when someone turns into a vampire?" schtick:

In the pilot, he had to kill Jesse.

After that, the writers don't like to talk about Jesse.

But his best friend who ended up having to kill him probably still remembers.

And making exceptions to the rule for people who you like less... probably not a thing.

Good point although he killed Jesse almost by mistake? A shame we couldn't have had even a reference to Jesse at some point, an appearance in CWDP or even Xander going off to visit Jesse's grave whilst Willow visits another person's in season 7. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎11‎/‎06‎/‎2014 at 11:08 AM, DAngelus said:

 

I hesitate to use the word "foreshadowing" for accidental coincidences.  "Foreshadowing" is planned.  None of the S6 crap (indeed, not even Spike surviving past mid-season of this year) was even a mote in Joss's eye at this point.

 

Which is not to say that this episode isn't loaded with foreshadowing, inferior and best-forgotten (if only I could) future rehashes aside.  Basically, the whole season is spelled out, from Buffy challenging Angel to a fight, to Angel saying she's not as strong as she thinks she is (wrong, Broody, when the chips are down, she's stronger), to Buffy's Giles-as-the-Master nightmare foreshadowing Angel's turn, to the "P.S. this is a trap" used to decoy Buffy away from the Scoobies, which Angel makes use of again in Becoming, Part 1.  But we also get multiple follow-ups to Prophecy Girl (PTSD, Bitch of the Year dance, and the separation of the "Fighting Scoobs" [buffy/Angel/not-yet-a-buttmonkey Xander] from the bookish/support types [Willow/Giles/Jenny/Cordy] in the previous ep being used as a plot point here), and the call-back to Welcome to the Hellmouth with Buffy's "I'm gonna kill them all.  That ought to distract them" plan mirroring Angel's over-dramatic reading of her motives in their first meeting.  She is a very different girl in September than she was in March, that's for sure.  (And she'll be even more different by the following June.)

 

"So…are you gonna kill me? Or are we just making small talk?"  I miss badass Buffy; it's amazing how quickly she disappears.  (She's barely in S3/S4, never mind the Dawnverse.) Oh well, we'll always have 34 eps of 16-mm brilliance; that's more than most shows get.

Oh we still get badass Buffy from time to time but do we want her so hardened and cut off (like a certain other character becomes?). As for Spike I think they realised pretty quickly the potential of this character and his appeal to the fans. 

[Loandbehold]

7 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

To be fair it very definitely was a ploy and I don't think Xander ever resented him for it. Plus he resented Angel long before BBB.

What exactly was the ploy? Xander asks afterwards and Angel's response was that if Spike bit Xander, then Angel would know that Spike bought into the "plan." Was the ploy that Xander was a sacrifice? Collateral damage? Yes, Xander resented Angel before BB&B. And, he had plenty of good reasons for this. Including Angel offering up Xander to Spike in School Hard. That's one time, but not the only time Angel acted in a way that could get Xander hurt or killed before Broody Boy gets his own show. And it won't be the last. 

[Joe Hellandback]

15 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

What exactly was the ploy? Xander asks afterwards and Angel's response was that if Spike bit Xander, then Angel would know that Spike bought into the "plan." Was the ploy that Xander was a sacrifice? Collateral damage? Yes, Xander resented Angel before BB&B. And, he had plenty of good reasons for this. Including Angel offering up Xander to Spike in School Hard. That's one time, but not the only time Angel acted in a way that could get Xander hurt or killed before Broody Boy gets his own show. And it won't be the last. 

I think that was a joke on Angel's part, yes it may have seemed a bit glib but Xander ribs Angel all the time. 

[Loandbehold]

Quote

I think that was a joke on Angel's part, yes it may have seemed a bit glib but Xander ribs Angel all the time. 

I'm confused. You said it said it was definitely a ploy. I'm seriously asking what the ploy was. There's supposed to be some reason for a "ploy." If there wasn't one, then Angel was offering up Xander's neck for nothing. Or it was due to his jealousy. It seems to me that a better ploy would have just been Angel saying, "is that the slayer behind you?" And when Spike and the other vamps turn around, run out the door. And, while that's pretty stupid, it's a hell of a lot better, and safer, than offering up Xander to Spike. 

[Joe Hellandback]

17 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

I'm confused. You said it said it was definitely a ploy. I'm seriously asking what the ploy was. There's supposed to be some reason for a "ploy." If there wasn't one, then Angel was offering up Xander's neck for nothing. Or it was due to his jealousy. It seems to me that a better ploy would have just been Angel saying, "is that the slayer behind you?" And when Spike and the other vamps turn around, run out the door. And, while that's pretty stupid, it's a hell of a lot better, and safer, than offering up Xander to Spike. 

Well Angel needed to get through Spike's vamp lackeys and he also didn't know if Spike might have heard what happened to him?

[lembergwatcher]

Facial expressions - one of those things I love the most about Buffy...

[Joe Hellandback]

18 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Facial expressions - one of those things I love the most about Buffy...

No, that was Charmed you're thinking off. 

[lembergwatcher]

48 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

No, that was Charmed you're thinking off. 

I've never seen that show actually :) My inspiration was from the song "J. B. Witchdance" by Masters of Reality.

[lembergwatcher]

The gang in red... Looks like a season 2 photoshoot:

 

[lembergwatcher]

Their looks seem season two-ish to me:

[Joe Hellandback]

On 9/16/2018 at 10:42 AM, lembergwatcher said:

I've never seen that show actually 🙂 My inspiration was from the song "J. B. Witchdance" by Masters of Reality.

By which I meant this one;

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=charmed+phoboe+and+piper+dance+naked&&view=detail&mid=1A5842B4A50E81260C511A5842B4A50E81260C51&&FORM=VRDGAR

[Halting Hex]

On 11/2/2020 at 9:47 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Their looks seem season two-ish to me:

And correct you are!  That's from the March 1998 BtVS panel at the Directors' Guild Theater, sponsored by the Paley Center and the Museum of TV and Radio.

 

The show is in the break between airing Killed by Death  and IOHEfY, but they're probably filming the finale at this point.  

(I never really noticed how much Buffy grew her blunt-cut out for the final four episodes.  I guess that shows there was a certain passage of time between 2.18 and 2.19, even though Giles is still barely functional.  Perhaps the poltergeists' attack snapped him out of it?)

[Halting Hex]

Another from the "Red Room" photoshoot, seen above:

Flirty-flirty, Slayer.