Daisy Johnson: That IS her name!

[DeLurker]

Doesn't bother me.

[TVSpectator]

The thread's title doesn't bother me but if we are going to change maybe we add a tag of something like  :Special Snowflake?

[SocaShoe]

Yes. I'm cool with it. 

[kitlee625]

The thread title also doesn't bother me, but I'm also not opposed to changing it. (I honestly don't care too much one way or another.) Personally I like "Special Snowflake" or "That IS her name!" as a callback to this current title.

[Cranberry]

Any title with "Special Snowflake" in it is off the table. Thanks!

[SocaShoe]

I kind of like the "That IS her name!" 

[teenj12]

It's quite interesting. Some of you are cool with invalidating our show's protagonist  by not even supporting to have her actual name put in her thread title. 

 

One of the most positive things about her deciding to reclaim the “Daisy Johnson” name:

• That it was taken from her in the first place.
• “Daisy Johnson” is her birthright.
• It should have been her name.
• Nazis took it away from her.
• Just like they took the parents who loved her away from her.
• Taking the name is her owning the pain and confusion of her childhood/young adulthood, and turn it into something positive.

 

But so many aren't realizing this.

[DeLurker]

I think the name given to her at the orphanage was Mary Sue Poots. Still pretty bad.

But calling her Mary Sue was genius by the writers.

[teenj12]

I kind of like the "That IS her name!" 

I like that too, actually!

 

Daisy Johnson: "That IS her name!" 

[kitlee625]

But calling her Mary Sue was genius by the writers.

Agreed. I laughed pretty hard at that one. Well played.

[SocaShoe]

"Agreed. I laughed pretty hard at that one. Well played."

 

Yeah, they claim to be away from fan commentary, but I think some of it must get through. 

[DeLurker]

Did the Nazi's take away her name?  I thought they just slaughtered the village where her parents were at, nabbed her Mom and SHIELD did the rest.  For some reason, I thought they recovered Baby Daisy and knowingly put her into the system (since she was found in China if I recall correctly)?

[SocaShoe]

I think you are correct, DeLurker. :) 

[kitlee625]

Did the Nazi's take away her name?  I thought they just slaughtered the village where her parents were at, nabbed her Mom and SHIELD did the rest.  For some reason, I thought they recovered Baby Daisy and knowingly put her into the system (since she was found in China if I recall correctly)?

That whole timeline is fuzzy and doesn't make sense to me. If I recall correctly, the Hydra Nazis kidnap/torture/kill JIaying. They take her from China to somewhere in Europe? And so Cal travels from China to somewhere in Europe and finds her. Presumably he leaves baby Daisy with a neighbor instead of just home alone. So then how does SHIELD come in? It's not like they're Child Protective Services.

 

The only way I can figure it, is that after finding Jiaying, Cal goes on a killing spree to get enough bodies to regenerate her. That's what draws SHIELD's attention looking for this 0-8-4. (Again, how is she an 0-8-4? Presumably the people in her village know her parents?) And then yes, SHIELD is what takes her and puts her in the foster care system in the United States, where some nun with a sense of humor dubs her Mary Sue Poots.

Edited April 25, 2016 by kitlee625

[teenj12]

Did the Nazi's take away her name?  I thought they just slaughtered the village where her parents were at, nabbed her Mom and SHIELD did the rest.  For some reason, I thought they recovered Baby Daisy and knowingly put her into the system (since she was found in China if I recall correctly)?

Yes, a shield team recovered Baby Daisy in the Hunan Province in China, where she was born to Jaiyang and Cal. Daisy's parents were going to name her Daisy Johnson at birth, however the night she was born was the same night that Hydra operatives raided the village and abducted the elders, including Jiaying. Jaiyang was brutally dissected by Hydra, and only came back to life because Cal put her body back together. Meanwhile, Baby Daisy was put into the system, with her parents having no knowledge of her whereabouts.

 

So what happened here was a group of Nazi's were responsible for separating Daisy from her parents, thus preventing her from receiving her intended name. So yes, Nazi's took Daisy's name away from her, which is why it's such a big deal that she reclaimed it.

[SocaShoe]

And one more little factoid, the name "Skye" has actually become part of the  canon of the SHIELD comic. It's brought in as the special nickname Coulson has for Daisy because she worked in space. So I don' think Skye is entirely a bad thing anymore. 

[teenj12]

And one more little factoid, the name "Skye" has actually become part of the  canon of the SHIELD comic. It's brought in as the special nickname Coulson has for Daisy because she worked in space. So I don' think Skye is entirely a bad thing anymore. 

This forum is for the show, not the comics.

 

In the show, Daisy has canonically corrected Coulson when he slipped and called her 'Skye'. 

[DeLurker]

Thanks for the refresher detail! 

 

But it seems that SHIELD knew who she was and put her in the system deliberately with no identification to shield her from Hydra from finding her.  I mean, Nazis are bad, HYDRA Nazis are worse but it seems like they would have been happy just killing the baby. 

 

Although I am cloudy too as to whether it was Cal behind the killing in his efforts to revive his wife.  Cal was awesomely crazy.

 

If the title gets renamed, I'll go with Mack calling her Tremors.

 

 

This forum is for the show, not the comics.

Isn't there, or shouldn't there be, overlap?

Edited April 26, 2016 by DeLurker

[SocaShoe]

I'm gonna pick at one more thing. Hydra officially separated from the Nazi's during WW2 around the time "Captain America: The First Avenger." due to the Red Skull refusing orders from Nazi command.Also, the tv series has established that Hydra was around long before that. Was the guy who killed Jiaying a Nazi at one point? Yes, but I would think it was more due to the goals of the two movements being the same at one point and using Germany as a front to seek out sources of power like the Tessarect. The attack on Jiaying took place in the 1980s so Hydra had already continued on, creating as much evil as possible. I would go so far to say that Hydra, not the Nazis were responsible for the attack on Jiaying. 

[kitlee625]

Thanks for the refresher detail! 

 

But it seems that SHIELD knew who she was and put her in the system deliberately with no identification to shield her from Hydra from finding her.  I mean, Nazis are bad, HYDRA Nazis are worse but it seems like they would have been happy just killing the baby. 

 

Although I am cloudy too as to whether it was Cal behind the killing in his efforts to revive his wife.  Cal was awesomely crazy.

 

If the title gets renamed, I'll go with Mack calling her Tremors.

 

Yeah, it's something that's always bothered me because that description -- that they were monsters who slaughtered an entire village -- is so specific and creepy. It really stuck with me. Cal was an interesting character, though I was disappointed that they brushed off all his craziness and cured him by the end. It seemed anticlimactic.

 

I love Mack's nicknames.

[Cranberry]

Changed the title. Open to other suggestions, though. If there's a fitting Tremors quote, I'd be all for that; I like it when titles are actual quotes from the show!

[teenj12]

I'm gonna pick at one more thing. Hydra officially separated from the Nazi's during WW2 around the time "Captain America: The First Avenger." due to the Red Skull refusing orders from Nazi command.Also, the tv series has established that Hydra was around long before that. Was the guy who killed Jiaying a Nazi at one point? Yes, but I would think it was more due to the goals of the two movements being the same at one point and using Germany as a front to seek out sources of power like the Tessarect. The attack on Jiaying took place in the 1980s so Hydra had already continued on, creating as much evil as possible. I would go so far to say that Hydra, not the Nazis were responsible for the attack on Jiaying. 

 

Even if one sector of Hydra's origin started in ancient times, they still came to work under Nazism, meaning that Hydra = Nazis. 

[TVSpectator]

Agreed. I laughed pretty hard at that one. Well played.

 

I have to say that it was a funny meta joke but it can only go so far. Although, I thought that it was funny too. 

 

 

Yeah, it's something that's always bothered me because that description -- that they were monsters who slaughtered an entire village -- is so specific and creepy. It really stuck with me. Cal was an interesting character, though I was disappointed that they brushed off all his craziness and cured him by the end. It seemed anticlimactic.

 

I love Mack's nicknames.

 

Hey, at least the writers allowed Cal to survive and not have him killed off, like Jiaying. 

 

As with Mack's names, they are good but I still prefer the name Quake than Tremors. I have been waiting since she got her powers for them to call her that on the show. Maybe since she is brainwash now, the characters will start to call her Quake instead of Tremors or she will just give her the name "Quake" instead. 

[teenj12]

Changed the title. Open to other suggestions, though. If there's a fitting Tremors quote, I'd be all for that; I like it when titles are actual quotes from the show!

Thank you! The new title is awesome.

 

I have to say that it was a funny meta joke but it can only go so far. Although, I thought that it was funny too. 

 

 

 

Hey, at least the writers allowed Cal to survive and not have him killed off, like Jiaying. 

 

As with Mack's names, they are good but I still prefer the name Quake than Tremors. I have been waiting since she got her powers for them to call her that on the show. Maybe since she is brainwash now, the characters will start to call her Quake instead of Tremors or she will just give her the name "Quake" instead. 

Yes, I cannot wait until Daisy receives her Quake codename! Speaking of "Tremors", I have to say that I love when Mack calls her that <3 .

[jhlipton]

I like the new title as well.

[frenchtoast]

I guess it's better than this one : The Seewalds: Benessa and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Name But that's what happens when you name the baby Spurgeon.

[TVSpectator]

Thank you! The new title is awesome.

 

Yes, I cannot wait until Daisy receives her Quake codename! Speaking of "Tremors", I have to say that I love when Mack calls her that <3 .

 

IMo, it's all right but I will let out a little squee of joy when she is finally going by the codename of "Quake". 

[teenj12]

Top 10 reasons why I love Daisy Johnson:

1. Daisy Johnson, a biracial woman, is the first Woman of Color lead in an MCU product, their first female hero with powers, and their first female lead in general.

2.Daisy is a canon survivor of childhood abuse/trauma, was a high school dropout, and was a young, homeless WOC for the early years of her adulthood.

3.  She is so beautiful

4. "Believe me, she's the muscle."

5. She is selfless, caring of others, and kind

6. She shot the man who abused her, threatened to rape her, and kidnapped her twice

7. She reclaimed a name that Nazi's stole from her at birth

8.She stood up against a racist, xenophobic POS

9.  She is the Captain America of Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D

 

10.  She is one of the most powerful superheroes in the Marvel Cinematic Universe

BONUS: She is... Quake

Thanks for reading! And always #StandWithQuake!

Edited August 26, 2016 by teenj12

[Raja]

I have been saying that Mystique was the Captain America of the X-Men Future Past universe. Captain America is the Captain America of the MCU. Daisy on the other hand looks like she is taking the role to the newly emerging Inhumans that Mystique has for the now public mutants in X-Men Apocalypse 

[teenj12]

11 minutes ago, Raja said:

I have been saying that Mystique was the Captain America of the X-Men Future Past universe. Captain America is the Captain America of the MCU. Daisy on the other hand looks like she is taking the role to the newly emerging Inhumans that Mystique has for the now public mutants in X-Men Apocalypse 

Oooh, that's a great comparison as well! 

With Daisy and Cap, I just always see a lot of thematic parallels (and she certainly has his morals):

1. 

 

2. 

 

3.

 

4. 

 

5.

 

6.

 

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8.

 

9.

 

10.

 

11. 

 

12.

[TVSpectator]

Quote

is the first Woman of Color lead in an MCU product

Wait, wasn't Ming-Na Wen also consider a lead in AoS?

[teenj12]

1 minute ago, TVSpectator said:

Wait, wasn't Ming-Na Wen also consider a lead in AoS?

Ming-Na Wen is a main character, yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. Chloe Bennet's 'Daisy Johnson' is the lead of Agents Of Shield in the same way that Matt Murdock is the lead on Daredevil, Jessica on Jessica Jones, Oliver Queen on Arrow, etc.  Meaning they are the central heroes that their respective shows center around/are about.

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

Ming-Na Wen is a main character, yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. Chloe Bennet's 'Daisy Johnson' is the lead of Agents Of Shield in the same way that Matt Murdock is the lead on Daredevil, Jessica on Jessica Jones, Oliver Queen on Arrow, etc.  Meaning they are the central heroes that their respective shows center around/are about.

I really wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think, if you had to pick out a "lead" for the show, Colson is the most likely candidate.  Even with him, though, it doesn't quite work.  AoS is too much of an ensemble show for really any character to be the lead.

Now, if you wanted to say that Daisy is the lead of the inhumans, that's a different story....

[teenj12]

Just now, OtterMommy said:

I really wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think, if you had to pick out a "lead" for the show, Colson is the most likely candidate.  Even with him, though, it doesn't quite work.  AoS is too much of an ensemble show for really any character to be the lead.

Now, if you wanted to say that Daisy is the lead of the inhumans, that's a different story....

Nope. I will completely say that. 

Coulson/Clark Gregg serves as a co-lead to Chloe Bennet, but this show has been more about Daisy than it has been about Coulson or anyone else. The past three seasons have been a giant origin story for Daisy Johnson. That's why most people on these boards believe she's a 'special snowflake'. Because they haven't quite gotten it yet that Daisy is the lead in the same way of Jessica Jones, Peggy Carter, Matt Murdock, etc. The story favors her, because the story is literally about her. 

It's quite clever actually. Everyone's first thoughts about Agents Of Shield was that it was going to be Coulson's show, that another white dude was gonna be the protagonist. But all along it was an origin story for the MCU's first WOC superhero - Quake.

[TVSpectator]

24 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

Nope. I will completely say that. 

Coulson/Clark Gregg serves as a co-lead to Chloe Bennet, but this show has been more about Daisy than it has been about Coulson or anyone else. The past three seasons have been a giant origin story for Daisy Johnson. That's why most people on these boards believe she's a 'special snowflake'. Because they haven't quite gotten it yet that Daisy is the lead in the same way of Jessica Jones, Peggy Carter, Matt Murdock, etc. The story favors her, because the story is literally about her. 

It's quite clever actually. Everyone's first thoughts about Agents Of Shield was that it was going to be Coulson's show, that another white dude was gonna be the protagonist. But all along it was an origin story for the MCU's first WOC superhero - Quake.

1

 

 

 I do  believe that Agents of SHIELD was an ensemble show from the start. Meaning that Skye/Daisy is just part of the lead characters and that Coulson, May, Simmons, Fitz, and yes even Ward were part of the main leads. As of now, yes the show totally switched, mid-stream, and put to focus on Daisy (with occasionally focus on the other characters), which is kind of sad that the other characters are reduced to secondary. Overall, IIRC, the show was billed (well, in all articles about the upcoming show) it was pointed out that it was supposed to be an ensemble show about the "little guy"/none- superpower people who have to clean up and/or deal wth living in a world with aliens, Avengers, and pretty much anything else the MCU throws at them. 

 

I mean, it's called AGENTS of SHIELD. It's literally in the name, the show was supposed to be about all of them and not just Skye/Daisy. 

 

Also, here is an article about what someone actually thought the show was about, around the ending of Season 1:

Quote

 

Agents of SHIELD is an ambitious project that had a lot of fan hopes tied up in it. A Marvel television series would be exciting enough in its own right, even without the promise of sharing a continuity with a superlatively successful movie franchise. And while the show has plenty going for it, it’s safe to say that it wasn’t the triumphant return of Joss-Whedon-style ensemble sci-fi in prime time television hit everybody was hoping it would be. So, a week out from the show’s final first season episode (it will be returning for a second season in the fall), lets talk about what worked and what didn’t in Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD.

What Went Right

Its Ambitions

Agents of SHIELD billed itself as a show about the little people of the Marvel Universe, the folks without superpowers or flashy suits who come in to clean up the messes of The Avengers and all their buddies (or soon to be buddies). We were going to get invested in the lives of some regular human folks in the Marvel Universe, and be asked to think about the full impact of the existence of the Avengers on the world around them, and not just when they were saving it. It was a chance to really play with the expanded MCU without the high stakes of movie production. One botched movie is a mistake that lasts months. One bad episode? Eh, there’ll be another next week.

 

 

 

1

http://www.themarysue.com/agents-of-shield-first-season-wrap-up/

 

As with the comment about why people here think she is a special snowflake, I would just go back and look at what others have said.  As with the other shows leads, well if you noticed their names or nicknames/superhero names are in the title of their shows, and Daisy's isn't in the title of her show. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by TVSpectator

[teenj12]

The thing is, AOS is a show that  took a while to truly present itself. The first half of season 1 was mostly filler until Winter Soldier dropped, and they were allowed to present the true conflict. The entire first season and the first half of Season 2 was a giant lead-up to the moment that Daisy got her powers. And I think that's what confuses some people - that the moment the show was leading up to was something pivotal about Daisy. I think that's when it was truly made clear that this wasn't just an ensemble show, or a show lead by a white dude. This was, is, and has always been about Daisy. Take her out of the equation, and yeah, the show could still go on. But it would be fundamentally different, because the show's narrative and Daisy's narrative are tightly interwoven.

[OtterMommy]

8 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

The thing is, AOS is a show that  took a while to truly present itself. The first half of season 1 was mostly filler until Winter Soldier dropped, and they were allowed to present the true conflict. The entire first season and the first half of Season 2 was a giant lead-up to the moment that Daisy got her powers. And I think that's what confuses some people - that the moment the show was leading up to was something pivotal about Daisy. I think that's when it was truly made clear that this wasn't just an ensemble show, or a show lead by a white dude. This was, is, and has always been about Daisy. Take her out of the equation, and yeah, the show could still go on. But it would be fundamentally different, because the show's narrative and Daisy's narrative are tightly interwoven.

I still don't see it.  I do feel that the show has a tendency to tilt too much in Daisy's direction now and then, but--when it does--it doesn't feel intentional.  The next season may tell a different story (but I doubt it), but Daisy on her own doesn't work.  Actually, no character on their own works here...every one of the characters has their "niche", so to say, which creates the whole.  After all, the show is not called "Skye/Daisy/Quake and the Agents of Shield."  Saying that Daisy rises above the rest of the Agents is like saying Captain America or Iron Man or (insert Avenger here) rises above the rest of the Avengers.

[teenj12]

15 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I still don't see it.  I do feel that the show has a tendency to tilt too much in Daisy's direction now and then, but--when it does--it doesn't feel intentional.  The next season may tell a different story (but I doubt it), but Daisy on her own doesn't work.  Actually, no character on their own works here...every one of the characters has their "niche", so to say, which creates the whole.  After all, the show is not called "Skye/Daisy/Quake and the Agents of Shield."  Saying that Daisy rises above the rest of the Agents is like saying Captain America or Iron Man or (insert Avenger here) rises above the rest of the Avengers.

'doesn't feel intentional'....???

• The first episode (and Coulson's team's first mission) is literally centered around Daisy and her actions.
• The writers drop hints about Daisy's alien DNA, and missing family as early as Season 1.
• Daisy's search for her family becomes the foundation of Season 2, as she discovers her true heritage as an Inhuman.
• Inhumans literally become the focus of Season 3, following Daisy accidentally causing the Terrigen spill. This fundamentally changes the series.
• The lead-up and promotion of the Secret Warriors, a team under the leadership of Daisy.
• The ending of Season 3 where Daisy literally becomes a vigilante called Quake, which is what the entire show up to this point was leading to.

Face it. Daisy Johnson has had an elaborate origin story that we were all pretty much tricked into watching. And I'm absolutely lovin' it.

Now, ...which part of that wasn't intentional? ^_- .

Edited August 27, 2016 by teenj12

[OtterMommy]

4 hours ago, teenj12 said:

'doesn't feel intentional'....???

• The first episode (and Coulson's team's first mission) is literally centered around Daisy and her actions.
• The writers drop hints about Daisy's alien DNA, and missing family as early as Season 1.
• Daisy's search for her family becomes the foundation of Season 2, as she discovers her true heritage as an Inhuman.
• Inhumans literally become the focus of Season 3, following Daisy accidentally causing the Terrigen spill. This fundamentally changes the series.
• The lead-up and promotion of the Secret Warriors, a team under the leadership of Daisy.
• The ending of Season 3 where Daisy literally becomes a vigilante called Quake, which is what the entire show up to this point was leading to.

Face it. Daisy Johnson has had an elaborate origin story that we were all pretty much tricked into watching. And I'm absolutely lovin' it.

Now, ...which part of that wasn't intentional? ^_- .

With any of the examples you listed above, you seem to omit the fact that Daisy was not the only character involved in it.  I'm not saying that Daisy isn't important.  I'm saying that Daisy's importance doesn't rise above that of all the other cast members (sure, some of the cast members, but not all of them) and definitely not the importance of the ensemble as a whole.  Yes, if you want to pick and choose elements of the series you can make it look like that.  However, if I really wanted to do, I could probably pick and choose elements to make it look like Fitz OR Simmons is the center of the show (which they aren't, and I am not making that argument).

As for it being her origin story....okay.  But, again, she is not the only character with an origin story.  We just spent over half a season with Hive's origin story, the first season had Colson 2.0's origin story.  And who knows what we're going to get in the next season with Lucy the VR character introduced at the end of the season finale.

As for the intentionality that I mentioned...I think you misinterpreted what I was saying (or, more likely, I probably didn't convey my thoughts properly).  A weakness I've always felt with this show is that it is sometimes kind of like one of those balance boards. It tilts towards one character and/or storyline, neglecting everything else before either "evening out" or tilting in another direction.  Honestly, it is a common enough problem with shows that it doesn't bother me too much...but I have noticed it with AoS.

Edited August 27, 2016 by OtterMommy

[teenj12]

16 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

With any of the examples you listed above, you seem to omit the fact that Daisy was not the only character involved in it. I'm not saying that Daisy isn't important.  I'm saying that Daisy's importance doesn't rise above that of all the other cast members (sure, some of the cast members, but not all of them) and definitely not the importance of the ensemble as a whole.  Yes, if you want to pick and choose elements of the series you can make it look like that.  However, if I really wanted to do, I could probably pick and choose elements to make it look like Fitz OR Simmons is the center of the show (which they aren't, and I am not making that argument).

As for it being her origin story....okay.  But, again, she is not the only character with an origin story.  We just spent over half a season with Hive's origin story, the first season had Colson 2.0's origin story.  And who knows what we're going to get in the next season with Lucy the VR character introduced at the end of the season finale.

As for the intentionality that I mentioned...I think you misinterpreted what I was saying (or, more likely, I probably didn't convey my thoughts properly).  A weakness I've always felt with this show is that it is sometimes kind of like one of those balance boards. It tilts towards one character and/or storyline, neglecting everything else before either "evening out" or tilting in another direction.  Honestly, it is a common enough problem with shows that it doesn't bother me too much...but I have noticed it with AoS.

• Daisy's not the only character involved in the examples I mentioned (which are more or less 90% of the show). The other main characters are involved, just as Karen/Foggy in Daredevil, or  Trish/Simpson/etc in Jessica Jones. These characters have narratives too, but they all center around one main protagonist. Daredevil, Jessica, and Daisy.
• Daisy (and yes, Coulson) do have a higher importance than other characters, because this is their show. This is why Daisy was never gonna be the one to get killed off. You can't kill off your series lead.
• I'm also not picking and choosing elements. The core of everything that has happened on the show goes back to Daisy. You cannot say the same for Fitz or Simmons or Mac, etc.
• By Origin Story, I'm referring to the fact that the purpose of the series was to transform Daisy into a superhero from the very beginning. The same way Matt eventually becomes Daredevil, because it was always planned for that to happen. Why? Because it's his show. Daisy has gotten the same hero narrative as Matt, Oliver Queen, Barry Allen, etc. All of those people are series leads with an ensemble cast.
• Yes, Agents of Shield has this thing where all the other MC's cycle in and out of focus. But who is always front and center? Daisy Johnson.

And honestly, just because her name isn't the title of the show, doesn't mean she isn't considered the lead. Coulson's name is not in the title, but there are people who will say that he is the lead (and yes, he is Daisy's co-lead). Star-Lord's name is not in the title of Guardians of The Galaxy, but there are people who will say that he is the lead in that movie. 

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, teenj12 said:

• Daisy's not the only character involved in the examples I mentioned (which are more or less 90% of the show). The other main characters are involved, just as Karen/Foggy in Daredevil, or  Trish/Simpson/etc in Jessica Jones. These characters have narratives too, but they all center around one main protagonist. Daredevil, Jessica, and Daisy.
• Daisy (and yes, Coulson) do have a higher importance than other characters, because this is their show. This is why Daisy was never gonna be the one to get killed off. You can't kill off your series lead.
• I'm also not picking and choosing elements. The core of everything that has happened on the show goes back to Daisy. You cannot say the same for Fitz or Simmons or Mac, etc.
• By Origin Story, I'm referring to the fact that the purpose of the series was to transform Daisy into a superhero from the very beginning. The same way Matt eventually becomes Daredevil, because it was always planned for that to happen. Why? Because it's his show. Daisy has gotten the same hero narrative as Matt, Oliver Queen, Barry Allen, etc. All of those people are series leads with an ensemble cast.
• Yes, Agents of Shield has this thing where all the other MC's cycle in and out of focus. But who is always front and center? Daisy Johnson.

And honestly, just because her name isn't the title of the show, doesn't mean she isn't considered the lead. Coulson's name is not in the title, but there are people who will say that he is the lead (and yes, he is Daisy's co-lead). Star-Lord's name is not in the title of Guardians of The Galaxy, but there are people who will say that he is the lead in that movie. 

I have to disagree with the comparison to shows like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Shows that that have very, very specific main characters, as indicated in the titles itself. Agents of SHIELD started out as a clear ensemble. Daisy (back then Skye) was the catalyst, but not quite the main character as Matt Murdock or Jessica Jones are. You get rid of Daisy, the name of the show doesn't change in any way. 

Listen, I am actually a fan of Daisy. I didn't like her in the first season, but she's grown on me. It's Coulson that makes her a lot worse than she is, along with the fact that she does get far too much focus. I just disagree that Daisy is somehow the heart and soul of the show and the main lead. She's a lead, yes, but not the most special lead or the number one lead. I personally wouldn't want characters like Fitz, Simmons, and Mack to die because they're seemingly less important. The show would suffer if any of the main leads died. That includes May, Mack, Simmons, Fitz, Coulson, and Daisy. 

Yes, Daisy has gotten significant screen-time compared to others. Yes, it looks like she'll continue to get more screen time next season. I personally would love less of her in season 4. You know why? Because I want to be reminded that it's an ensemble show. It's 100% supposed to be an ensemble show, but I think that the producers got caught up too much with Inhumans. I came here for the kickass human agents trying to defend the world. I don't mind that Daisy's Inhuman, but I also don't want her to be getting more screen time because of it. I want to see more of May, who we barely have seen much of besides her scenes with Andrew. Now May doesn't get to kick as much ass because they can just default to Daisy unless she's preoccupied/captured/unconscious. 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Daisy's not a major character now. But in season 1, it was clearly Coulson that was meant to be the main lead with the others as major characters. Everyone in season 1 got a significant part to play. They still do in some extent, but the focus has clearly shifted and I'd like for them to correct that a little bit. 

[teenj12]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I have to disagree with the comparison to shows like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Shows that that have very, very specific main characters, as indicated in the titles itself. Agents of SHIELD started out as a clear ensemble. Daisy (back then Skye) was the catalyst, but not quite the main character as Matt Murdock or Jessica Jones are. You get rid of Daisy, the name of the show doesn't change in any way. 

Listen, I am actually a fan of Daisy. I didn't like her in the first season, but she's grown on me. It's Coulson that makes her a lot worse than she is, along with the fact that she does get far too much focus. I just disagree that Daisy is somehow the heart and soul of the show and the main lead. She's a lead, yes, but not the most special lead or the number one lead. I personally wouldn't want characters like Fitz, Simmons, and Mack to die because they're seemingly less important. The show would suffer if any of the main leads died. That includes May, Mack, Simmons, Fitz, Coulson, and Daisy. 

Yes, Daisy has gotten significant screen-time compared to others. Yes, it looks like she'll continue to get more screen time next season. I personally would love less of her in season 4. You know why? Because I want to be reminded that it's an ensemble show. It's 100% supposed to be an ensemble show, but I think that the producers got caught up too much with Inhumans. I came here for the kickass human agents trying to defend the world. I don't mind that Daisy's Inhuman, but I also don't want her to be getting more screen time because of it. I want to see more of May, who we barely have seen much of besides her scenes with Andrew. Now May doesn't get to kick as much ass because they can just default to Daisy unless she's preoccupied/captured/unconscious. 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing that Daisy's not a major character now. But in season 1, it was clearly Coulson that was meant to be the main lead with the others as major characters. Everyone in season 1 got a significant part to play. They still do in some extent, but the focus has clearly shifted and I'd like for them to correct that a little bit. 

You're not getting the fact that Coulson was a smokescreen. He was meant to reel in AOS viewers before Season 1 released (which was smart, as he served a viable link from the movies to the TV show), but the intended direction was always for Daisy to be the series lead. Season 1 was backstory for Skye's evolution in getting powers and becoming a super-hero. The entire first half of AOS was intended to lead up to the Inhuman transformation she received in "What They Become".  

You're actually quite contradicting yourself when you say Daisy isn't the lead, but then say "She gets far too much focus". Why do you think that is? It can't possibly be because she's the series lead, right? Even though AOS's core narrative is ABOUT Daisy, even though the show's narrative favors Daisy's morals, even though Daisy is front and center always, while the other MC's cycle in and out.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, teenj12 said:

You're not getting the fact that Coulson was a smokescreen. He was meant to reel in AOS viewers before Season 1 released (which was smart, as he served a viable link from the movies to the TV show), but the intended direction was always for Daisy to be the series lead. Season 1 was backstory for Skye's evolution in getting powers and becoming a super-hero. The entire first half of AOS was intended to lead up to the Inhuman transformation she received in "What They Become".  

You're actually quite contradicting yourself when you say Daisy isn't the lead, but then say "She gets far too much focus". Why do you think that is? It can't possibly be because she's the series lead, right? Even though AOS's core narrative is ABOUT Daisy, even though the show's narrative favors Daisy's morals, even though Daisy is front and center always, while the other MC's cycle in and out.

I'm sensing some passive aggression here. I said that she gets far too much focus now because they've amped up her screen time a lot, especially this past season. There's more than one series lead and all that I'm saying is that this show needs to remember that. It's a far better show when it's ensemble rather than when it's focused on just Daisy or just Coulson. Plus, there are many criticisms against Daisy/Skye that I've seen which are warranted. 

I like Daisy, but in smaller doses than what we've seen her in. I want more of the other characters because we've had a lot on Daisy but not a lot on May or Fitz, for example. That's all. Because this show is about all the characters, not just Daisy. I get your point and I don't disagree that this is what the show has become. But Daisy, for me, isn't the heart and soul of the show. She's a main lead, but not the only one. I mean, maybe in Coulson's eyes she is, but I think less Daisy is not a bad thing.

[TVSpectator]

22 hours ago, teenj12 said:

'doesn't feel intentional'....???

• The first episode (and Coulson's team's first mission) is literally centered around Daisy and her actions.
• The writers drop hints about Daisy's alien DNA, and missing family as early as Season 1.
• Daisy's search for her family becomes the foundation of Season 2, as she discovers her true heritage as an Inhuman.
• Inhumans literally become the focus of Season 3, following Daisy accidentally causing the Terrigen spill. This fundamentally changes the series.
• The lead-up and promotion of the Secret Warriors, a team under the leadership of Daisy.
• The ending of Season 3 where Daisy literally becomes a vigilante called Quake, which is what the entire show up to this point was leading to.

Face it. Daisy Johnson has had an elaborate origin story that we were all pretty much tricked into watching. And I'm absolutely lovin' it.

Now, ...which part of that wasn't intentional? ^_- .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to add a few things to what OtterMommy said above:

1. IIRC the first character we saw was Mike Peterson (a.k.a. Deathlok and also know by the Hooded Heroe) and also him rescuing someone from a fire, in LA. We also got hints about Centipede and its program through him and that Coulson's Team was about Peterson and Centipede. Skye/Daisy came into the picture because of the fact she butted into Peterson's life because she was a hacktivist. and also wanted (and this is what I think she wanted to do) was to prove that superpowers are real (even though literally the year before, in this universe, 6 superpowered individuals defeated a whole alien army, and I am not even going to mention the other movies that came before....) and how evil SHIELD is. 

2. I really don't remember the show dropping hints about Skye/Daisy alien heritage in Season 1.  Yeah, they explored that in Season 2 but it seems all to dovetail (Daisy's past, her family, 0-8-4s, SHIELD, May's nickname, etc...) into one story about the Inhumans and their background (they even did an episode exploring May's past and that she was traumatized by an event with two rogue Inhumans). 

3. IMO, that was a problem that Season 3 had. By that time I already thought that they exhausted the Inhuman storyline but then they just added Hive into the mix and also a lame version of Hellfire (which isn't an Inhuman in the comics).  As with the Secret Warriors thing, well they only showed that for like five actual minutes on the show, and reverted back to the Hive storyline.  IMO, having people calling her Quake was one of the best things they did with her character. And I wonder why couldn't they call her Quake from the start? Like why did they have to call her Tremors and not Quake (she literally quakes and can bring down mountains back in Season 2)? 

 

3 hours ago, teenj12 said:

You're not getting the fact that Coulson was a smokescreen. He was meant to reel in AOS viewers before Season 1 released (which was smart, as he served a viable link from the movies to the TV show), but the intended direction was always for Daisy to be the series lead. Season 1 was backstory for Skye's evolution in getting powers and becoming a super-hero. The entire first half of AOS was intended to lead up to the Inhuman transformation she received in "What They Become".  

You're actually quite contradicting yourself when you say Daisy isn't the lead, but then say "She gets far too much focus". Why do you think that is? It can't possibly be because she's the series lead, right? Even though AOS's core narrative is ABOUT Daisy, even though the show's narrative favors Daisy's morals, even though Daisy is front and center always, while the other MC's cycle in and out.

 

 

I just don't buy that Coulson was a smokescreen. It seems more likely that they switched from Coulson to Skye/Daisy once they were allowed to introduced Inhumans into the MCU. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by TVSpectator

[teenj12]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm sensing some passive aggression here. I said that she gets far too much focus now because they've amped up her screen time a lot, especially this past season. There's more than one series lead and all that I'm saying is that this show needs to remember that. It's a far better show when it's ensemble rather than when it's focused on just Daisy or just Coulson. Plus, there are many criticisms against Daisy/Skye that I've seen which are warranted. 

I like Daisy, but in smaller doses than what we've seen her in. I want more of the other characters because we've had a lot on Daisy but not a lot on May or Fitz, for example. That's all. Because this show is about all the characters, not just Daisy. I get your point and I don't disagree that this is what the show has become. But Daisy, for me, isn't the heart and soul of the show. She's a main lead, but not the only one. I mean, maybe in Coulson's eyes she is, but I think less Daisy is not a bad thing.

• I don't see how you can keep saying that "they've amped up Daisy's screentime" and that "Daisy has been getting too much attention", but yet say she's not the Main Lead. You're essentially contradicting yourself. 
• All superhero shows are practically ensembles. In Daredevil, Karen/Foggy/Punisher/Electra have just as much importance to the narrative that May/Fitzsimmons/Mac have in AOS, but it's clear who the main star is: Matt in Daredevil, and Daisy in Agents Of Shield. 
• This discussion isn't about the criticisms about Daisy. Most of them that I've seen here are NOT warranted, and are born out of people's refusal to accept Daisy's role on the show. Her show.
• If you're looking for Daisy to get less screen time, you're gonna be disappointed, because she is the leading protagonist.

1 hour ago, TVSpectator said:

Just to add a few things to what OtterMommy said above:

1. IIRC the first character we saw was Mike Peterson (a.k.a. Deathlok and also know by the Hooded Heroe) and also him rescuing someone from a fire, in LA. We also got hints about Centipede and its program through him and that Coulson's Team was about Peterson and Centipede. Skye/Daisy came into the picture because of the fact she butted into Peterson's life because she was a hacktivist. and also wanted (and this is what I think she wanted to do) was to prove that superpowers are real (even though literally the year before, in this universe, 6 superpowered individuals defeated a whole alien army, and I am not even going to mention the other movies that came before....) and how evil SHIELD is. 

2. I really don't remember the show dropping hints about Skye/Daisy alien heritage.  Yeah, they explored that in Season 2 but it seems all to dovetail (Daisy's past, her family, 0-8-4s, SHIELD, May's nickname, etc...) into one story about the Inhumans and their background (they even did an episode exploring May's past and that she was traumatized by an event with two rogue Inhumans). 

3. IMO, that was a problem that Season 3 had. By that time I already thought that they exhausted the Inhuman storyline but then they just added Hive into the mix and also a lame version of Hellfire (which isn't an Inhuman in the comics).  As with the Secret Warriors thing, well they only showed that for like five actual minutes and reverted back to the Hive storyline.  Having people call her Quake was one of the best things they did with her character. I wonder why couldn't they called her Quake from the start? Like why did they have to call her Tremors and not Quake (she literally quakes and can bring down mountains back in Season 2)? 

 

I just don't buy that Coulson was a smokescreen. It seems more likely that they switched from Coulson to Skye/Daisy once they were allowed to introduced Inhumans into the MCU. 

• I feel like you're attempting to reduce Skye's role in the pilot. She was the one who found Mike first and warned him about SHIELD. After Coulson arrested her, she was the one who gave his team the insight about Centipede and Mike. Not to mention that after Mike kidnapped her, she used her tech skills to tip Coulson's team off about where she and Mike were so that they could diffuse the situation. She was essentially the hero of the pilot. 
• Daisy's alien heritage was hinted at as early as 1X07 where we discovered that she was born in the Hunan Province in China, and that 'monsters attacked her entire village', and that she was an 0-8-4. By 1X14 it was discovered that she had alien blood in her body.  All of this largely sets up the story for Season 2.
• Also, 'Tremors' was just an affectionate term between Mac and Daisy. It was never a codename for her. 
• 'I don't buy that Coulson was a smokescreen'..........but, he literally was??? I mean you just admitted that they 'switched from Coulson to Skye/Daisy', when in reality, that was happening all along as Daisy's origin flushed out more and more leading up to 'What They Become'. Since then it has been absolutely clear who this show was about all along - Daisy. And after Season 3, it should be clear that there will not be 'less Daisy'. Once again, she is the main lead.

[kieyra]

Jessica Jones = show named after her.

Daredevil = show named after him.

Luke Cage = show named after him.

Agent Peggy Carter = show named after her.

Agents of SHIELD = ensemble show.

I won't disagree that we got bait-and-switched into way too much Daisy/Sky and that it doesn't appear it'll change anytime soon. But that's also why I only pay attention to about one-third of this show.

If they wanted me to watch a show about her, they should have taken the time to develop a more compelling and consistent character. The attitude you are seeing on this thread is due to their failure to do so, starting with her ridiculous "female hacker unicorn living in a van with a $300 ombré hairdo" intro. No amount of animated gifs from Tumblr will change that for me, personally.

[Lady Calypso]

18 hours ago, teenj12 said:

• I don't see how you can keep saying that "they've amped up Daisy's screentime" and that "Daisy has been getting too much attention", but yet say she's not the Main Lead. You're essentially contradicting yourself. 

Because, essentially, Daisy, Coulson, May, Fitz, Simmons, and Mack are all main leads in some form or another. At the very least, the actors are all in the starring credits. That's what I mean. 

18 hours ago, teenj12 said:

• This discussion isn't about the criticisms about Daisy. Most of them that I've seen here are NOT warranted, and are born out of people's refusal to accept Daisy's role on the show. Her show.

Not just her show. That's the point. The show doesn't revolve around her, and it shouldn't. It's about all agents, not just Daisy. That's the point here. 

I know that she's (one of?) the first POC superheroine in a leading role on a television show, and that's a huge accomplishment. Seriously, it's great. But this is not HER show. It's THEIR show. All of the agents. Coulson, May, Fitz, Simmons, Mack are included in this. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[kitlee625]

5 hours ago, kieyra said:

If they wanted me to watch a show about her, they should have taken the time to develop a more compelling and consistent character. The attitude you are seeing on this thread is due to their failure to do so, starting with her ridiculous "female hacker unicorn living in a van with a $300 ombré hairdo" intro. No amount of animated gifs from Tumblr will change that for me, personally.

This. Skye/Daisy's character has been very inconsistently written on this show, as has most of the plot/character "development." I get that the show didn't want to change from "Agents of SHIELD" to "Agents of Nothing" after Cap2, but their explanation as to why SHIELD had to rebuilt and go into the extra super duper secret shadows, away from any and all accountability, was weak. And I certainly think that Skye/Daisy going from "freedom of information" to "protect SHIELD at all costs" made no sense at all.

 

I almost feel like I'm watching a new character and a new show with each season.

[kieyra]

In order of interest, the show for me has more or less been:

Fitz/Simmons

Bobbi/Hunter  (sigh)

Mack

May

Coulson (his obsession with Sky/Daisy makes him somewhat less interesting than he might otherwise be).

And then everyone else.

If Ward had disappeared in S1, that would have been fantastic. 

[teenj12]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Because, essentially, Daisy, Coulson, May, Fitz, Simmons, and Mack are all main leads in some form or another. At the very least, the actors are all in the starring credits. That's what I mean. 

Not just her show. That's the point. The show doesn't revolve around her, and it shouldn't. It's about all agents, not just Daisy. That's the point here. 

I know that she's (one of?) the first POC superheroine in a leading role on a television role, and that's a huge accomplishment. Seriously, it's great. But this is not HER show. It's THEIR show. All of the agents. Coulson, May, Fitz, Simmons, Mack are included in this. 

• 'This show doesn't revolve around her'...LOL, it literally does. Please explain to me how it doesn't, and how everything that has happened the past few seasons does not lead back to Daisy. I can't wait to see you try. 
• Daisy is the first POC main lead superhero on TV. She's literally revolutionary to so many people.

Honestly, the only argument you guys are hanging on here is that her name isn't in the title...??? A character can be the main lead and NOT have their name in the title.