S03.E07: Digestivo

[Crossbow]

I have rewatched a whole bunch of episodes over the weekend, and I noticed, in the episode in S2 when Mason tries to kill Hannibal and Will -and ends up feeding his face to Will's dogs-, Will wakes up in Mason's ranch all alone and then walks back home. So I guess his house is actually walking distance to Mason's ranch and Hannibal did indeed carry him all the way there...

 

Distance has no meaning in this show, even from the first episode. Remember how they used to pop in and out of Minnesota? And how Abigail managed to get out there, uncover a body in the woods, and get back the same night?

[DeadlyEuphoric]

Distance has no meaning in this show, even from the first episode. Remember how they used to pop in and out of Minnesota? And how Abigail managed to get out there, uncover a body in the woods, and get back the same night?

 

True, but I just love the idea that Will chose to live in the middle of nowhere, as far away from other people as possible for some peace and quiet and who does he have for neighbors? The Vergers! It is like the man is doomed no matter what he does or how much he tries, madness and macabre just follow him.

[Captanne]

Remember the Magical Boatride from the Chesapeake Bay to Florence, Italy?  

 

Yeah, time, logic, distance, and credibility hold no sway here.

[Crossbow]

Your petty geography has no power over me.

[Captanne]

Well, the boat is (apparently?) still in Florence.  Maybe we could magick her back?  

 

Listen, "Dig" is still reigning as the worst of the worst so "Hannibal" gets a pass on the WonderBoat.

[Crossbow]

Looked up Dig on Wikipedia. Sounds like some wild and crasy times.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I actually don't have a problem with the boat trip as people do and can sail around the world on their own, Will's whole childhood was spent around boats, and he is himself a boat mechanic etc. so he knows what he is doing... But I do hope he got his boat back. The least Italian officials can do to make up for their entire Florence police department being so corrupt that they kidnapped and sold Will out to have his face removed, is sent the guy his boat back , all expenses paid...

 

I vaguely remember watching the premiere of Dig and it being more than enough for me. I don't even remember the details now. I think the main character was depressed and has lost a girl or something and hallucinating about her from time to time? Which sounds like Will in episode 2 of this season, heh, though the guy there failed to create any curiosity for me, while I find Will quite interesting.

Edited July 27, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[paramitch]

Yeah, the Minnesota distance thing in Season 1 bothered me far more than the sailboat thing. I posted previously on this, but I grew up in a sailing family, and it wasn't unusual for us to cross oceans -- just us, kids, and family cat, in a 37-foot sailboat -- routinely and without fanfare. There's a whole subculture of people who don't find this unusual to do at all. Especially nowadays -- if you're a competent sailor in good health, in the age of GPS and high-tech, single-handing even is easier than you'd think it would be. I totally believed Will would be able to do so with no problem (and that he would relish the experience). It also wouldn't be hard for Will to have his boat shipped or sailed back to him.

 

DeadlyEuphoric, it never occurred to me -- EVER! -- that Will was actually NEIGHBORS WITH THE VERGERS. Amazing catch. I can't even. The poor guy. Talk about never getting a break.  But it's really cool that you noticed both instances and that Hannibal was in fact able to walk from one to the other (carrying Will!).

 

And... I can't help it, I'm sick, because even after every horrific thing, there is something about Hannibal's feelings for Will that kind of touch me (at least watching from a safe and fictional distance). I think it's because they are actually the closest he gets to human.

 

The irony is, while Hannibal's love for Will is something that humanizes him, Will's love for Hannibal is something that calls up his own potential for monstrosity. So it was doomed to fail (and to do so spectacularly).

[Captanne]

DeadlyEuphoric, it never occurred to me -- EVER! -- that Will was actually NEIGHBORS WITH THE VERGERS. Amazing catch. I can't even. The poor guy. Talk about never getting a break.  But it's really cool that you noticed both instances and that Hannibal was in fact able to walk from one to the other (carrying Will!).

 

And... I can't help it, I'm sick, because even after every horrific thing, there is something about Hannibal's feelings for Will that kind of touch me (at least watching from a safe and fictional distance). I think it's because they are actually the closest he gets to human.

 

The irony is, while Hannibal's love for Will is something that humanizes him, Will's love for Hannibal is something that calls up his own potential for monstrosity. So it was doomed to fail (and to do so spectacularly).

 

 

Unfortunately, I think this is the exact nature of abuse.

 

For most, it's impossible to understand why the abusee keeps returning to the abuser.  I mean that for something as mundane (sadly) as domestic abuse to the exaggerated point of Will and Hannibal.

 

It's why, when they got to the beginning of this season and Will was folded, spindled, and mutilated over and over again within three episodes, I got fed up.  The "explanation" just didn't live up to the cartoonish level of abuse Will was taking.  For me, that is.

[paramitch]

Captanne, I agree with your very eloquent post that it is in some ways the very nature of abuse (and the way you worded it I found very moving).

I just disagree on how well it worked dramatically. For me, I don't find it cartoonish so much as operatic and florid and all within a believable tapestry Fuller has built for us.

[Captanne]

I think, maybe, it's a matter of degree.  

Edited July 28, 2015 by Captanne

[Crossbow]

On abuse: We also know that the abusee often, maybe usually, believes the abuser can change/has changed. In this case, Will knows for an absolute fact that Hannibal has changed and could conceivably change more.

 

One thing I never cared for in the book is that it never seemed Will had a particularly good reason to go to Hannibal for help. It seemed like he just WANTED to, which made no sense. In Fuller's adaptaion, it makes more sense, since they had a prior relationship.

[John Potts]

Amazing how you can have a show about a serial killing cannibal and NOT have him be the vilest character in the series (true to the book, too, where Mason was a truly despicable character, too). Also true to the book was Hannibal's ability not to react to being tortured by Mason (don't recall if he was branded or not, but he escapes into his "Mind Palace")

 

Will really can't catch a break. In the past week(?) he's been pushed off a train, shot, had a saw taken to his skull, kidnapped, threatened with an unanaesthetised face transplant and had a bad (and unsuccessful) break up.

 

patty1h Cordell was perfect - he filled so many roles for Mason

ElectricBoogaloo "Wanted: discreet sidekick with medical knowledge (but not constrained by morals or the American Medical Association). Must also be a great cook. Willingness to do experimental surgeries and cook humans a plus."

 

So where exactly do you post an ad like that? (Just in case I ever need to eat one of my enemies!)

 

Tippi Blevins Now Hannibal knows he'll still be in Will's orbit and Will in his. I think it's half to torture Will and half because he would genuinely miss Will.

 

I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's so true!

 

I personally didn't find it THAT unbelievable that Verger managed to use a pig as a surrogate. We do use pigs to provide heart valves, so it's be an experimental surgery but not completely impossible.

 

MisterGlass  I think Jack is the only person who comes out of this with the moral high ground, and as always, he was great.

 

I think that is my frustration with this season. Last Season you could just about accept that Will and Jack had an (admittedly over complex) plan to catch Hannibal, this Season it seemed like NOBODY was trying to catch Hannibal. At least Jack is trying to actually stop serial killers from running free around the world (and we know there are new ones popping up every month from last Season).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

"Wanted: discreet sidekick with medical knowledge (but not constrained by morals or the American Medical Association). Must also be a great cook. Willingness to do experimental surgeries and cook humans a plus."

So where exactly do you post an ad like that? (Just in case I ever need to eat one of my enemies!)

Craigslist? Edited July 29, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MisterGlass]

 

I think that is my frustration with this season. Last Season you could just about accept that Will and Jack had an (admittedly over complex) plan to catch Hannibal, this Season it seemed like NOBODY was trying to catch Hannibal.

 

People were trying to catch Hannibal, but that they were trying to do it for their own ends, not justice.  That's Hannibal, tempting everyone to stray from the path and into his territory.

[Bruinsfan]

I only read/saw/was actually familiar with Silence of the Lambs. I've seen small bits and pieces of the movies Red Dragon, Hannibal and Hannibal Rising ... but not enough to have any working knowledge of the storylines or characters. I didn't know anything about the Verger's, or that Alana was Alan. And I only knew there was a character Will Graham, but nothing beyond that.

I have had no trouble following and loving all three seasons. I've enjoyed Bryan Fuller's vision of Hannibal and his story. So much so that when I tried to watch SotL a few weeks ago ... I had to turn it off. Anthony Hopkins now feels like an imposter Hannibal. Mads Mikkelsen is now Hannibal in my head.

Hopkins is still my definitive Hannibal, but Mikkelsen and Cox have both turned in excellent performances in the role. Dancy has taken over for William Petersen, and Fishburne for Dennis Farrina.

[Crossbow]

Hugh Dancy is definitely the best Will of all. The Hannibals all played it so differently, it's hard to compare - and none of them really fit the description in the books.

[Captanne]

I think Dancy has had more to work with and the benefit of series television (more time, more exposure, longer and more varied storyline).  

 

We've had a chance to see Dancy's Will go through so much more than the others who were confined to the limits of Red Dragon (Manhunter.)

 

I like Dancy's Will but I'm holding out judgement on the Will of the Dolarhyde case until he gets his story wrapped up.  

[millennium]

On 7/17/2015 at 4:24 PM, Captanne said:

Don Hannibal, thank you for that!!  Your recitation is probably the best plot-movement I've "seen" all season.  

 

Also, and I don't know why this is, but the bromances this season (in this and other shows) have all left me cold.  I don't see any sexual tension between Hannibal and Will or between Justified's Raylan and Boyd at.  all.  Although the actors, through interviews, would have me believe there is some.  Huh.  Maybe my radar is off.

I have never detected any sexual tension between Hannibal and Will.  Kindred spirits, a shared soul, folie a deux, etc., perhaps.   But sex?   No.  Nor have I understood viewers who feel cheated that Will and Hannibal didn't do the deed.   Admittedly, I don't get the whole shipping phenomenon in the first place, or why there can't simply be a strong, non-sexual bond between individuals on a show without an insistence that it lead to romance or consummation.

I like both characters a great deal, and while Will's flirtation with the dark side made for fascinating moments, I'm a bit relieved to see them retreat to their respective corners. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by millennium

[Captanne]

In retrospect, Will Graham as played by William Peterson "will" always be my definitive version.  I liked Dancy but -- I didn't really like Hannibal, the series.  It got overwhelmed by the artistry.  I also just cannot like Gillian Anderson.  She's so fucking stilted in everything she does (did anyone see the murder mystery she did recently, The Fall?, where even in a negligee they had her in a push-up bra?  I mean, talk about DIVA behaviour.  And I don't for a minute believe she was overridden by a costume director.  Quite the opposite.)  Anyway, she was just as stilted in that show.  So, either the actress is stilted or she is typecast.  If she were to be typecast, it would be as Scully, hands down.  The way she behaves now is not like Scully -- it's more like a Sunset Boulevard.

[millennium]

5 hours ago, Captanne said:

In retrospect, Will Graham as played by William Peterson "will" always be my definitive version.  I liked Dancy but -- I didn't really like Hannibal, the series.  It got overwhelmed by the artistry.  I also just cannot like Gillian Anderson.  She's so fucking stilted in everything she does (did anyone see the murder mystery she did recently, The Fall?, where even in a negligee they had her in a push-up bra?  I mean, talk about DIVA behaviour.  And I don't for a minute believe she was overridden by a costume director.  Quite the opposite.)  Anyway, she was just as stilted in that show.  So, either the actress is stilted or she is typecast.  If she were to be typecast, it would be as Scully, hands down.  The way she behaves now is not like Scully -- it's more like a Sunset Boulevard.

I would agree Bedelia's character waxed Sunset Boulevard toward the end of the Florence arc, but of all GA's performances only one role has left me less than enchanted: her most recent turn as Scully on the X-Files revival.   Maybe it was the writing, maybe it was the sense she was phoning it in, maybe it was just her affected raspy voice. but it didn't cut it for me.   

I liked her as Stella in The Fall, and loved her as Bedelia.   Bedelia had more in common with Stella than Scully, I thought.   (Just to add, as I watched The Fall I found myself wanting Scully to be more like Stella).  I wish Bedelia had retained her defensive composure to the very end, although her deterioration better served the story.

I have several episodes of the show left to watch, and I will be sorry when it is over.   I agree there is more style than substance, but the audacity of the plots and the chemistry between Mikkelsen and Dancy keeps me coming back.   If I had to put my finger on a single problem with this show, it's that I like Hannibal Lecter too much.   Who wouldn't want to play head games with Mikkelsen?  Okay, so every now and then he tries to give you a craniotomy, but otherwise sign me up!   I never liked Anthony Hopkins, not in the least.   Mikkelsen is beguiling, like a beautiful snake.   He is Satan, trying to glamour Will into selling his soul.  He would have made an equally formidable Dracula.

[Captanne]

Oh, yeah, Anthony Hopkins failed me, too.  Give me Ben Cox any day of the week.  He was a veritable cameo in Manhunter and left me with more shivers than Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs ever did.

Fava beans, indeed.

"Cheap cologne with a ship on the bottle" -- shudders.

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

  I agree there is more style than substance, but the audacity of the plots and the chemistry between Mikkelsen and Dancy keeps me coming back.   If I had to put my finger on a single problem with this show, it's that I like Hannibal Lecter too much.   Who wouldn't want to play head games with Mikkelsen?  Okay, so every now and then he tries to give you a craniotomy, but otherwise sign me up!   I never liked Anthony Hopkins, not in the least.   Mikkelsen is beguiling, like a beautiful snake.   He is Satan, trying to glamour Will into selling his soul.  He would have made an equally formidable Dracula.

I just wanted to quote this cuz i love it so much. Two years gone, and I'm still obsessed with this show, and mostly, mainly, forever, with Mads. He would indeed make a beautiful, terrifying, seductive vampire.