Shame-Free Zone

[MillieSparklepants]

21 hours ago, AdorkableWitch said:

I disagree with you there. There is still a huge stigma against being fat, especially if you are a woman. I think the two biggest issues for the increase in obesity are the abundance of "easy" food and our overscheduled lives. Easy food means fast food, convenience food, even takeout - it's far too easy to fill any craving and/or hunger with food that takes little effort to prepare. I think that is a consequence of a lifestyle where we are constantly busy. I am working and going to school, and it makes a huge impact on my time and energy to cook.

Think so? Maybe I don't get out enough. In my social circles, the second anyone complains about being overweight, six people jump on them with the "no you're nots" and the "you're gorgeous" and "love yourself" comments. I think we all feel a lot of pressure from the media and advertising with all the photoshop and the 14-year-old models we're shown, but on a personal level, no one I know would ever tell an overweight person that they could stand to lose a few pounds (or even agree with them if they brought it up). There would be immediate accusations of bullying.

[AdorkableWitch]

26 minutes ago, MillieSparklepants said:

Think so? Maybe I don't get out enough. In my social circles, the second anyone complains about being overweight, six people jump on them with the "no you're nots" and the "you're gorgeous" and "love yourself" comments. I think we all feel a lot of pressure from the media and advertising with all the photoshop and the 14-year-old models we're shown, but on a personal level, no one I know would ever tell an overweight person that they could stand to lose a few pounds (or even agree with them if they brought it up). There would be immediate accusations of bullying.

I would never tell an overweight person to lose weight because I promise anyone who IS overweight knows it. We hear it from medical professionals. I just changed doctors because my last one blamed everything on obesity. Even the flu and sinus infections. I promise no one has to be told they are fat, especially when their chief coping mechanism is food.

In my peer group (30+ professionals) weight is almost never discussed. Diet has only been discussed as far as food allergies and restrictions such as diabetes. Maybe it is because most of my friends are male? I am not sure, to be honest. But the only person I ever hear comments on about my weight is my mother, and that is less about me and more about how she feels I am embarrassingly fat.

I used to be active in the HAES/FA movement. It's kind of a right of passage in your 20's for overweight feminists. However, I have found once I reached my 30's, my opinions changed and I realized it wasn't okay. I now support a spinoff BHAES (Be Healthy At Every Size) which encourages exercise and nutrition for everyone, regardless of weight.

[MillieSparklepants]

8 minutes ago, AdorkableWitch said:

I would never tell an overweight person to lose weight because I promise anyone who IS overweight knows it. We hear it from medical professionals. I just changed doctors because my last one blamed everything on obesity. Even the flu and sinus infections. I promise no one has to be told they are fat, especially when their chief coping mechanism is food.

In my peer group (30+ professionals) weight is almost never discussed. Diet has only been discussed as far as food allergies and restrictions such as diabetes. Maybe it is because most of my friends are male? I am not sure, to be honest. But the only person I ever hear comments on about my weight is my mother, and that is less about me and more about how she feels I am embarrassingly fat.

I used to be active in the HAES/FA movement. It's kind of a right of passage in your 20's for overweight feminists. However, I have found once I reached my 30's, my opinions changed and I realized it wasn't okay. I now support a spinoff BHAES (Be Healthy At Every Size) which encourages exercise and nutrition for everyone, regardless of weight.

This is really interesting, I appreciate your perspective. Sorry about your bad experience with your doctor, I hope the new one is better! 

[DayGlorious]

25 minutes ago, MillieSparklepants said:

Think so? Maybe I don't get out enough. In my social circles, the second anyone complains about being overweight, six people jump on them with the "no you're nots" and the "you're gorgeous" and "love yourself" comments. I think we all feel a lot of pressure from the media and advertising with all the photoshop and the 14-year-old models we're shown, but on a personal level, no one I know would ever tell an overweight person that they could stand to lose a few pounds (or even agree with them if they brought it up). There would be immediate accusations of bullying.

This is my experience as well. Having struggled with overeating my entire life, and having had more weight swings than Oprah as a result, it pisses me off (even more than vanity sizing, but that's a post unto itself). First of all, that behavior usually doesn't come from people who fall within even the broadest-brush definition of "healthy" for their age/height/build, but from people who are overweight themselves. When people around them even talk about getting better, they go into crabs-in-a-barrel mode, resort to personal attacks, or simply vanish instead of being supportive. There's a reason why drug/drinking buddies so often disappear or make their resentment clear when others become sober, and why people who are early or shaky in their recovery are advised to stay away from those people. At least for overeaters, the "no you're not" people are even more toxic because they are better able to camouflage their toxicity as love and concern, or for women, feminism and empowerment. Worse still is how their behavior minimizes, if not completely ignores, the fact that different people have different struggles. When I am 40 pounds overweight and 50 pounds heavier than I was 5 years ago, when I drive my trash to a dumpster so my boyfriend doesn't see all the junk food wrappers and empty popcorn bags (as if I were actually hiding something), and when my family history of weight- and eating-related Very Bad Things is starting to evidence itself, the last thing I need is for someone tell me I "don't have a problem" or start a pissing contest with me because she weighs more. And every time I crawl back onto the wagon, that is EXACTLY what happens and then some. :(

[gonecrackers]

I've been up & down weight-wise always as well, am overweight now & often make cracks about myself. I typically get a pity smile in return. (Except when I did this in front of my MIL - it was the only time I'd make her laugh; probably saved her the trouble of making the cracks herself). I understand the pity smiles though because that would make me uncomfy if someone did that too, so now I'll try not to joke or refer to it as often. I've never once gotten a 'oh no you're fine, perfect, not overweight at all', with the exception of a friend of mine who is obese. She thinks I'm fine - thin even - & of course I'm not deluded enough to believe that & I realize the perspective it's coming from.

Edited March 28, 2017 by gonecrackers

[bethster2000]

On 8/5/2015 at 3:57 AM, algebra said:

FedUp.

Film that absolutely changed my life.  For the better.

[Christina]

I've seen a lot of nutrition-related films, but don't think I've heard of Fed Up, and googled it. I found it posted on YouTube.

Fed Up! Genetic Engineering, Industrial Agriculture and Sustainable Alternatives

It's not like I'm already behind in my television viewing and PTV reading. : ( 

ETA: Apparently there are a few movies with that name, including one about sugar consumption and one with Katie Couric. I haven't watched this yet, and the comments were pretty mixed. Of course, when dealing with YouTube comments, some people feel the need to be negative just because they can. It's a cesspool of a-holes over there.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Christina
Added paragraph

[MillieSparklepants]

RE: Obesity treated as an eating disorder instead of a personal failing.

I was normal weight in high school, but I had an anorexic friend who viewed my ability to eat a burger and fries for lunch as a disgusting lack of self-control. The fact that I would eat anything was a personal failing in her eyes and she thought her ability to starve herself made her superior and stronger.

When I extrapolate that to the way our society treats obesity, is it any different? We treat the compulsion to eat not enough food as a medical disorder, but not the compulsion to eat too much food. Do you think part of that is because we've all been tempted by unhealthy food, but no one has been tempted by starvation. So the anorexic person is sick to choose that lifestyle while the overweight person is merely indulgent? 

Side note: Our friendship fell apart after high school, but the last time I saw a picture of my former anorexic friend, she was extremely overweight. So her food issues have continued throughout her life and that makes me sad.

[HelloOutThere]

2 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

So he must have given her the sleeve...that seemed to be his procedure of choice this season.  I think the doctors are all now really recommending the sleeve first because it produces just about the same results as the bypass and has less overall risk.  And a revision to the bypass can always be done if the sleeve isn't producing enough results. (I had the sleeve done too, best decision I ever made)

Forgive me for my lack of familiarity with the nuances between the procedures - these diagrams have been eye opening for me. I'm trying to understand fully.

So I was under the impression that the sleeve was basically a device that was put onto the stomach to constrict it, and that it could be adjusted. Obviously this isn't correct. Would what I'm describing here be the "Lap Band"?

So it looks like the sleeve removes a large portion of the stomach rather than any bypass activity. I've heard the sleeve can be "defeated" more easily - is this because it's possible to stretch out the stomach by eating increasing amounts of food over time?

The bypass obviously looks more involved in terms of a procedure and more prone to complications as you noted. Is a bypass considered harder to "undo" since it involves a permanent re-routing of the stomach and intestinal "plumbing", for lack of a better term?

If a sleeve is "defeated," can it be followed up with a bypass for more permanent results?

Again, please excuse my newbie knowledge about the procedures. This show fascinates me on many levels and fully understanding the surgeries will add another dimension for me. I know I could go to Google for this but hearing it from people who've considered the surgeries, or in your case Notyrmoma, have actually had them, makes it even more relatable and understandable.

Happy to take this to another thread if this isn't the appropriate place to discuss as well, mods. ?

Edited May 20, 2017 by HelloOutThere

[Miss Chevious]

My cousin had the sleeve and she lost a lot of weight. (Unfortunately she gained a lot of wrinkles in her face, so her body looked good but her face made her look way older.)

Fast forward a couple of years, now she's almost as heavy as before. I hadn't seen her in a while and was a bit shocked to see how much she'd re-gained. Apparently the remaining stomach will stretch out if you overeat and that's what happened to her. Sad, really sad.

[abbey]

7 minutes ago, Miss Chevious said:

My cousin had the sleeve and she lost a lot of weight. (Unfortunately she gained a lot of wrinkles in her face, so her body looked good but her face made her look way older.)

I have lost 104 lbs (and counting!) the old fashioned way, and I dreaded losing too much weight in my face and looking way older. I am 65 but have been frequently told I look younger.  While my face is thinner I have not gained a lot of wrinkles in my face.  I am guessing because I took 2 1/2 years to lose that weight so maybe the gradual weight loss made a difference.  I know weight loss surgery works for some people but I too know people who had the surgery and put it all back and then some.  This surgery seems like an easy fix to some of these patients and major life style changes still have to be made or you end up exactly where you were before.  So sad to go through all that and end up back where you started.

[HelloOutThere]

2 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

My cousin had the sleeve and she lost a lot of weight. (Unfortunately she gained a lot of wrinkles in her face, so her body looked good but her face made her look way older.)

Fast forward a couple of years, now she's almost as heavy as before. I hadn't seen her in a while and was a bit shocked to see how much she'd re-gained. Apparently the remaining stomach will stretch out if you overeat and that's what happened to her. Sad, really sad.

Sad indeed; sorry to hear that was the result for her. Curious - after she regained, did her face "even out," or did the gaunt / older look remain in her face after the regain? Would be a shame to lose weight temporarily but look older, then regain...and still look older. Makes the whole thing more harmful than never going any procedures ?

[notyrmomma]

4 hours ago, HelloOutThere said:

Forgive me for my lack of familiarity with the nuances between the procedures - these diagrams have been eye opening for me. I'm trying to understand fully.

So I was under the impression that the sleeve was basically a device that was put onto the stomach to constrict it, and that it could be adjusted. Obviously this isn't correct. Would what I'm describing here be the "Lap Band"?

So it looks like the sleeve removes a large portion of the stomach rather than any bypass activity. I've heard the sleeve can be "defeated" more easily - is this because it's possible to stretch out the stomach by eating increasing amounts of food over time?

The bypass obviously looks more involved in terms of a procedure and more prone to complications as you noted. Is a bypass considered harder to "undo" since it involves a permanent re-routing of the stomach and intestinal "plumbing", for lack of a better term?

If a sleeve is "defeated," can it be followed up with a bypass for more permanent results?

Again, please excuse my newbie knowledge about the procedures. This show fascinates me on many levels and fully understanding the surgeries will add another dimension for me. I know I could go to Google for this but hearing it from people who've considered the surgeries, or in your case Notyrmoma, have actually had them, makes it even more relatable and understandable.

Happy to take this to another thread if this isn't the appropriate place to discuss as well, mods. ?

Actually, between the sleeve and the bypass, the sleeve will stretch, but never to its original shape.  The doctor cuts out the really stretchy part of the stomach in the operation.  This is from Dr. Now's website:

Also, with the Gastric Sleeve, the removed section of the stomach is actually the portion that stretches the most. The long vertical tube-shaped stomach that remains is the portion least likely to expand over time. It creates significant resistance to higher volumes of food.  The physics of retaining a sleeve-shaped portion of stomach are beneficial as well. Resistance is greatest the smaller the diameter and the longer the channel. Not only is appetite reduced, but also very small amounts of food generate early and lasting satiety (fullness).

http://www.drnowmd.com/hos/Pages/TreatmentPages/Sleeve.html

The sleeve does stretch somewhat, but never back to its original shape.  Think about it this way, it's important that it stretch somewhat because otherwise a person would have a hard time getting in enough calories once all the excess fat it gone (you can only eat a couple of ounces at a time at first).  How people manage to gain weight with the sleeve is to graze all day.

[Miss Chevious]

2 hours ago, HelloOutThere said:

Sad indeed; sorry to hear that was the result for her. Curious - after she regained, did her face "even out," or did the gaunt / older look remain in her face after the regain? Would be a shame to lose weight temporarily but look older, then regain...and still look older. Makes the whole thing more harmful than never going any procedures ?

Yes, her face filled out again somewhat. But some of her wrinkles still remain after the weight gain. I guess she must've grazed all day in order to regain. I didn't want to embarrass her, so didn't ask.