Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[Guest]

I think the one thing we can probably all agree on is that whoever is doing this is not really helping their case and only making themselves look bad. Let them get on with it. 

[looptab]

Totally unrelated to the various issues going on right now, but I just want to say how lucky we got Echo (and Charlotte Ross too), since after Colton left there was a drought in entertaining social media content. :)

[tv echo]

Charlotte Ross‏@charlotteross

❤ @echok @ Vancouver Film Studios https://www.instagram.com/p/BDx9tlnxoIX/

6:52 AM - 4 Apr 2016

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/716986818256719872

 

[tv echo]

Posted by SA on facebook...

Stephen Amell
March 31 at 3:04pm ·
Hey Facebook!!
Exciting news... A publishing house has approached me about writing a book. We're ironing out the details at the moment, but that hasn't stopped me from mentioning it and you from asking questions because I have a problem with premature verbal pronunciation. So, allow me to elaborate. Sort of.
What's the book about? Sure.
Non-fiction? I never lie, sometimes to my detriment, so ya.
When it's coming out? Figuring out when I'm writing it first.
Will you use a ghost-writer. No. I will right every word.
Did you just intentionally use right instead of write? Yes.
Nonetheless, will an editor be absolutely vital. (Nods.)
What are some subjects that you'd like to touch upon?
Well... Fatherhood, the acting industry, moving from Toronto to LA, parents whose kids are assholes, kids whose parents are assholes, my suspicions about real estate agents, dietary fads, Air Canada, the unrelenting brilliance of Survivor and the inside story surrounding Donald Trump's rise to political prominence.
Hoping to get started over hiatus. Further hoping that the momentum of the book will rival the momentum established when I become obsessed with any iPhone game that has the word "Clash" in the title.
As always, YOU will have a huge part in the creation of this property. Most people start with a concept and work backwards towards a title. I always do the opposite.
So what should the title be? Easy on the Arrow puns. Like seriously... I'll consider blocking you.
Here we go. Untitled Literary Project. LAUNCH!

https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell/posts/1030871240331476

Edited April 4, 2016 by tv echo

[Scribbles]

He really should write the book as a long letter to his daughter.  It allows him to discuss the types of things he says and ties in everyday heroes values and behaviors he wants to achieve and pass along to his child.

 

edit to add:  I don't use facebook so if someone wants to pass it along go ahead and put in a plug for our happy little forum

Edited April 4, 2016 by Scribbles

[apinknightmare]

I imagine it'll be, like...Tucker Max lite.

[dtissagirl]

Quick, someone tell him the title should be Amellsplaining cos I don't have Bookfaces.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think if he wrote about his take on the industry and his experience as an actor it could be interesting..he used to have a blog where he was quite straightforward and it was entertaining. No offense to him but I could do without his deep thoughts on the meaning of life or stuff like that, LOL. I'm sure others would be interested though.

[apinknightmare]

I liked his blog a lot, but I'm not sure I want to know a whole lot about his opinions these days, haha.

[looptab]

Apparently, to prove to Beth Schwartz that the people asking for moderation against sexism and misogyny on the FB page are a bunch of hypocrites, the reddit people are tweeting her and Stephen Amell screenshots of trash shippers convos.
This is getting uglier by the day.

Edited April 4, 2016 by looptab

[Scribbles]

Apparently, to prove to Beth Schwartz that the people asking for moderation against sexism and mysoginy on the FB page are a bunch of hypocrites, the reddit people are tweeting her and Stephen Amell screenshots of trash shippers convos.

This is getting uglier by the day.

It is fair enough for people to be held accountable for what they spew (type/say) on the internet.  Karma can be powerful even digitally.  Two wrongs don't make a right in moral math, so let the chips for all involved fall where they may and hope sanity prevails in the end. 

[dtissagirl]

*popcorn.gif*

[Midnight Lullaby]

And all Beth Schwartz did, and I imagine could do, was send a email to ask if they could monitor the page to stop the bullying and the sexism towards the users. It's beyond me how people can take this in an offensive way. I guess they'll learn to not answer publicly to any fan in the future.

[dtissagirl]

The part I find hilarious in all of this is Beth is trying to get FACEBOOK to moderate the comments in the Arrow page. And just -- that's now how it works, clueless writer person. It's the CW PR's responsibility to keep the comments clean, by keeping steady moderation every single day over a long period of time.

[Midnight Lullaby]

It is fair enough for people to be held accountable for what they spew (type/say) on the internet.  Karma can be powerful even digitally.  Two wrongs don't make a right in moral math, so let the chips for all involved fall where they may and hope sanity prevails in the end.

Yeah, but Beth isn't the teacher, LOL. It's ridiculous people are telling her to see what the other side did. I think I'm too old to be in a fandom.

And to clarify I'm not condoning mean comments of any kind and I don't even know what they are saying but it seems all very silly to me.

[looptab]

For starters, I find amusing that Beth is the only one willing to do something - even if she doesn't know what or how she should do it - or at least the one that has acknowledged the problem. I believe the official pr has been told about this issues?

Second, I don't see how this kind of reaction can be productive in any way - what do you resolve by "outing" the trash shippers? What's the harm in what they do? It's not like they were tagging Stephen or Emily or his wife in their convos. Just another move to give fandom a bad name.

 

I've never been involved in a fandom before - I don't even know if I really am now, since I engage just here and occasionally lurk on twitter. But this stuff is...I don't even know, haha. Worrisome, I guess?

Edited April 4, 2016 by looptab

[EmilyBettFan]

^ Exactly. Not saying I am one of them lol but the ones I've seen don't tag any of them. Plus they keep themselves with few followers and follow backs. So the only reason I can think for this if someone was a follower of a trash shipper and they were really a hater of Olicity and made it seem like they were a fan of both of them on show and in real life. The old "I'll pretend to like them to spy on what fans say."

[dtissagirl]

Fandom has always been wanky, but it has always solved/managed its issues without outside interference. But now creatives are easily accessible, up close and personal, and neither fandom, nor creatives [and come to think of it, nor professional media] know how to function in this crazy new world wherein you can say anything you want to the people who write your favorite TV show, and they can reply to you right back.

 

And even worse -- networks are telling creatives to engage with fandom non-stop, and fandom is basking in its newfound relevance, after decades of ostracism. All of this has had the funny as fuck side effect of turning showrunners into fandom's parents.

[looptab]

Or Uncles...:D

[doesntworkonwood]

I think he should save writing a book until after the show ends.... so I can get all the goss. 

[lemotomato]

I've been in/observed a lot of fandoms over the years, and what I think makes Arrow's situation unique is that it's one of those shows with an online fanbase that seems to be evenly split between genders. Or at least they're equally loud (in different ways) about what they want from the show.

 

Stuff like this makes me wish I had majored in sociology/anthropology.

Edited April 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. The last time I was in a fandom with an even split gender divide was The X-Files -- and the biggest issue was 'shipper vs. noromos. Eerily similar to what we get on Arrow, except instead of comic books, it was aliens.

 

[looptab]

What does noromos stand for?

[dtissagirl]

What does noromos stand for?

 

"No romance". No wonder it didn't take, right? :)

[Scribbles]

I've been in/observed a lot of fandoms over the years, and what I think makes Arrow's situation unique is that it's one of those shows with an online fanbase that seems to be evenly split between genders. Or at least they're equally loud (in different ways) about what they want from the show.

 

Stuff like this makes me wish I had majored in sociology/anthropology.

And then there are the others....

 

I am a female who is far more likely to select something in the action/adventure category than character/romance for entertainment.  I suspect it breaks down more along Meyer's Briggs scales than gender, with maybe age and culture as vectors too (rather than gender lines).

 

It really is never too late for another major ya know, we live in amazing times.

[looptab]

"No romance". No wonder it didn't take, right? :)

Yeah, it sounds awful :)

[lemotomato]

And then there are the others....

 

I am a female who is far more likely to select something in the action/adventure category than character/romance for entertainment.  I suspect it breaks down more along Meyer's Briggs scales than gender, with maybe age and culture as vectors too (rather than gender lines).

 

It really is never too late for another major ya know, we live in amazing times.

Oh, I prefer action/adventure over pure character/romance/drama too. I'll watch a comic book-based show over anything by Shondra Rhimes any day. But I only get really invested in a show when there's character/relationship development, not just fighting the baddie of the week. 

 

I also think the gender divide is reflected in how the different parts of the audience responds/supports the show. Take polls, for example. SA posted about the Alpha Male Madness poll on his FB page, which has almost 5 million followers, and still lost handily to Sam Heughan. I'm willing to bet that the male:female ratio of fans for the actors are very different. 

 

It's true what you say about taking a new major, but I'm not sure a better understanding of people's behavior will make me more or less depressed :P

Edited April 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[Scribbles]

It's true what you say about taking a new major, but I'm not sure a better understanding of people's will make me more or less depressed :P

In the darkest hours my dog reminds me the planet should be saved (then proceeds to eat my snack if I turn my back on him).

 

edited to say then instead of the and to nod to Aye Chihuahua

Edited April 4, 2016 by Scribbles

[EmilyBettFan]

Which do you think Stephen Amell has more female or male fans?

[thegirlsleuth]

I've only been involved with the "romance" side of fandom and only for two fandoms where there was internal ship battles but not something like this, and where things were mostly focused on fanart, fanfic, vids, etc.  I think the Arrow situation is exacerbated by the fact that a) this is the first time I'm aware of where the comics fandom is interacting with the romance fandom directly, and b) there has been little social media promotion/oversight by the powers that be. The lack of official PR attention means that groups have been more vocal because they are trying to get promotion where there is none. If they had been doing some promotion, people wouldn't have been trying to fill that gap.  In addition, I think that if the clashes that have happened on official social media had been shut down a lot sooner, there would have been less of a feeling of victimization by each side. 

 

If Fandom Wank still existed, we'd be making Fandom Wank.

[Sakura12]

I've stopped investing in ships for my sanity (I was burned out being part of the Lost Fandom). I like certain characters together but I don't really care if they get together or not. A show with no romance would be as boring as a show with just action and stunts. They need be balanced correctly and more importantly have better thought out drama. 

[statsgirl]

I've never been involved in a fandom before - I don't even know if I really am now, since I engage just here and occasionally lurk on twitter. But this stuff is...I don't even know, haha. Worrisome, I guess?

It's pretty normal when you get to be anonymous.  Several places have shut down the comments to articles, even science journals and the CBC on any stories on indigenous people.  Add to that  white male privilege and it's a tinderbox out there.

 

The House fandom had some pretty vicious fights between the House/Cuddy fans and the House/Wilson and House/Cameron fandoms.  (The H/W and H/C shippers got on very peaceably with each other.)  One of the problems is that the House EPs loved putting gasoline on the flames and seeing what erupted.  MMG is a mere amateur compared to David Shore.

 

He really should write the book as a long letter to his daughter.  It allows him to discuss the types of things he says and ties in everyday heroes values and behaviors he wants to achieve and pass along to his child.

 

I like that idea, like Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Between The World and Me to his son.  Plus it may help SA's book from being too dude bro, which is a thing he tends to do.

 

The Canadian senate is referred to as the chamber of "sober second thought".  I hope someone does that for SA.

 

Stuff like this makes me wish I had majored in sociology/anthropology.

It's never too late. A friend of mine started her PhD at 55 when the college she was teaching at decided everyone had to have a PhD.

 

The problem with taking a social science like sociology or psychology is that the more you about behaviour like this, the more frustrating it is.

[looptab]

Think involution instead of evolution?

[lemotomato]

Yeah. The last time I was in a fandom with an even split gender divide was The X-Files -- and the biggest issue was 'shipper vs. noromos. Eerily similar to what we get on Arrow, except instead of comic books, it was aliens.

 

Did we win, though? I'm forever bitter that we only got two measly kisses in 7 seasons (I stopped watching when DD left the show) and one was technically AU. MSR taught me to have a YOLO attitude about 'shipping. Endgame doesn't matter as much to me as getting to see the characters actually be in a relationship onscreen.

[dtissagirl]

The lack of official PR attention means that groups have been more vocal because they are trying to get promotion where there is none. If they had been doing some promotion, people wouldn't have been trying to fill that gap.

 

This is also a new development, like, in the last five years or so -- fandoms taking the reigns of doing promotion on social media, either for lack of sufficient official promo, or because [sects of] fandom want to show their usefulness to the network/creatives. Some shows/networks have figured out how to make this kind of thing into a symbiotic relationship [see: Orphan Black, Pretty Little Liars, Outlander]. Arrow/The CW are not one of those.

 

Did we win, though? I'm forever bitter that we only got two measly kisses in 7 seasons (I stopped watching when DD left the show) and one was technically AU. MSR taught me to have a YOLO attitude about 'shipping. Endgame doesn't matter as much to me as getting to see the characters actually be in a relationship onscreen.

I think we won because the legacy XF left wasn't alien conspiracies and abductions. It was Mulder and Scully, and some 789 shows that followed trying to replicate them, which is still going on to this day.

Edited April 4, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

How so? 

. Some shows/networks have figured out how to make this kind of thing into a symbiotic relationship [see: Orphan Black, Pretty Little Liars, Outlander]. 

 

 

[AyChihuahua]

In the darkest hours my dog reminds me the planet should be saved (then proceeds to eat my snack if I turn my back on him).

 

edited to say then instead of the and to nod to Aye Chihuahua

Dogs' only shipper wars are them and their snacks (proposed portmanteau: Snogs) and them and their person (proposed portmanteau: Dou? That's better than Yog).

 

Dogs are the best.

[dtissagirl]

How so? 

 

Those shows have their PR people paying very close attention to what's popular within their fandoms, and targeting promotion accordingly.

[foreverevolving]

I've only been involved with the "romance" side of fandom and only for two fandoms where there was internal ship battles but not something like this, and where things were mostly focused on fanart, fanfic, vids, etc.  I think the Arrow situation is exacerbated by the fact that a) this is the first time I'm aware of where the comics fandom is interacting with the romance fandom directly, and b) there has been little social media promotion/oversight by the powers that be. The lack of official PR attention means that groups have been more vocal because they are trying to get promotion where there is none. If they had been doing some promotion, people wouldn't have been trying to fill that gap.  In addition, I think that if the clashes that have happened on official social media had been shut down a lot sooner, there would have been less of a feeling of victimization by each side. 

 

If Fandom Wank still existed, we'd be making Fandom Wank.

 

In my opinion the reason the "shipping" aspect of fandom is so strong on Arrow is because the show is the first major comic book based show to divergence from the comics canon couple. I can't remember another comic based show that has done it, not one I watched any way, so this very much pained the ego and pissed off the comic canon purists.

the lack of PR doesn't help either.

[AyChihuahua]

Smallville put Oliver Queen with its blonde hacker genius, too. (That's why I find it HILARIOUS when people use Smallville as the example to emulate when arguing O/L must be together bc canon. Legit HILARIOUS.)

Edited April 4, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

Smallville was also under MUCH STRICTER guidelines/overlooking/restrictions from DC Comics [because it's Supes] than Arrow ever was [because Green Arrow who?], and they were super fine with Chloe/Ollie.

[NumberCruncher]

In my opinion the reason the "shipping" aspect of fandom is so strong on Arrow is because the show is the first major comic book based show to divergence from the comics canon couple. I can't remember another comic based show that has done it, not one I watched any way, so this very much pained the ego and pissed off the comic canon purists.

the lack of PR doesn't help either.

 

I have to disagree with the assertion that the shipping aspect is just because of divergence from the comic canon couple because if that were true, the comic fans should have thrown an absolute fit when they paired Oliver with Chloe on Smallville as others have mentioned here.  I tend to think that the shipping faction of the fandom is mostly due to the chemistry factor between EBR and SA.  I didn't actually start out as an O/F shipper but about midway through S2-A, I couldn't deny that the two of them just crackled together and gave in.  I think it's the same for a lot of people too.  I don't ever recall seeing this same level of Olicity love back at the beginning of S2.  Sure, there were some die-hards, but they were a mere handful.  It started building and building and that's what I think is giving a lot of the backlash fuel.  The comic purist crowd started out being the "core audience" and so they feel a certain ownership of the show and now that they see people being attracted to the show because of a non-canon couple and the popularity of that pairing drawing so much focus in the media, they're feeling marginalized.

Edited April 4, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[SonofaBiscuit]

You know, I blame a lot of fandom ugliness on the network.  When the EPs switched gears from L/O to F/O, they should have let KC go.  It's possible that keeping her caused people to either A). Resent the fact that Arrow was rejecting the comic book pairing of GA/BC to go with the "fanservice" pairing of Oliver/Felicity, or B). Resent the fact that this rejected love interest from the first season was still hanging around without a purpose or relevance to the storylines we were being sold.  Either way, negative feelings abound.

[EmilyBettFan]

^ That so much. She was missing from episodes to so exactly what was the point of her character?

At least when Felicity was missing from 3X04 is that right? They felt her presence missing. Also 4x10 with her minimal screen presence you could see how the team faltered without her there.

Edited April 4, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[dtissagirl]

The CW loves 'shipping wars. They truly madly deeply love it when their fandoms fracture, because the volume of social media content produced as a result is way bigger. This is peak fandom optimization for the pretty face network.

 

And people forget that Arrow's original premise was designed with an embedded 'shipping war -- the plan WAS for fandom to fracture between Laurel/Oliver and Laurel/Tommy. Except nobody cared. Which was A NIGHTMARE for the CW.

Edited April 4, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

I have to disagree with the assertion that the shipping aspect is just because of divergence from the comic canon couple because if that were true, the comic fans should have thrown an absolute fit when they paired Oliver with Chloe on Smallville as others have mentioned here.

Except there were fits thrown over Oliver/Chloe in Smallville fandom. There were endless cries of Chloe has to die so Oliver can end up with Dinah...because comics. There were tons of comic fanboys who hated Chloe because Clark was the big damn hero and the show/teenage female fans were too obsessed with the sidekick making her way more important than necessary (especially in S8).

Honestly i don't see much difference between Chlollie/Olicity and Chloe/Felicity as far as fandom goes. The same arguments are/were used for both. Only difference I see is that it's louder in Arrow because were not talking about a secondary pairing, we're talking about the main hero going against comics.

In fact, way back in the summer post S1 most of the anti-Olicity arguments were that Felicity was just like Chloe she can't end of with Oliver (on Arrow) just like she couldn't be paired with Clark on Smallville. Becuase comics demands that Clark be with Lois and Oliver be with Laurel. Chloe/Felicity as the geeky blonde sidekick could only be paired with a secondary heroe

Edited April 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

Honestly i don't see much difference between Chlollie/Olicity and Chloe/Felicity as far as fandom goes. The same arguments are/were used for both. Only difference I see is that it's louder in Arrow because were not talking about a secondary pairing, we're talking about the main hero going against comics.

 

I think the difference is Social Media and Forums becoming more popular than they were back in Smallville's days. Fans are more vocal now because there are various platforms for them to be vocal. 

[kismet]

I think its a clusterfuck of reasons the Arrow Fandom is Lord of the Flies on good days. Every branch shares some reason or at least indirectly contributes to the madness. I don't think it splits along gender lines. It's not just comic pursits vs. shippers. It's also partially the shows fault for how they write the characters and manipulate the plot lines to milk drama & fan engagement/enragement. It really is an interesting sociological phenomena, but its also so sad to see people resorting to misogyny, hatred and other uglier sides of humankind.

 

Anyway back to SA's book ~ I really don't feel the need for SA to write a non-fiction book yet. No offense but it seems like just another part of his ever growing ego and need to fuel it. I really do not see what is uniquely specially or even universally appealing about his life story. I guess he could write his opinions & deep thoughts down, but not sure why I would buy that book or even borrow it from the library. I mean maybe when he is old & grey or has discovered some great life philosophy through life experience. But he's just a well paid actor & Maverick's Dad, to me that is not worth a whole book. It just feels like a Vanity Project, that being said I can totally see why he wants to do it and why some stupid publishing house is willing to pay him for it. On the other hand, I do think SA has some pretty cool story ideas from how he talks about certain characters, relationships & TV shows that he has the potential to write a semi-decent fiction book. It would be interesting to see what he would do with a fiction book, it he had time to actually write one.

[foreverevolving]

Smallville put Oliver Queen with its blonde hacker genius, too. (That's why I find it HILARIOUS when people use Smallville as the example to emulate when arguing O/L must be together bc canon. Legit HILARIOUS.)

But Smallville's Oliver was not the main character of the show, so while it is a divergence it's not as a big of a deal (although, from "Morrigan2575" writes, it seems to have been to a degree) i wasn't really into the Smallville fandom, or used facebook and Twitter back than, but I did occasionally read some forums (though not in english) and I have never heard of any shipping wars in regards to Oliver and Chloe, so I can only assume it must not have been a major thing as it is on Arrow.

 

I probably should have been specific though: I don't remember any similar divergence between the main hero and his supposed love interest. Minor characters get their love interests changed all the time!

Edited April 4, 2016 by foreverevolving

[Primal Slayer]

Smallville put Oliver Queen with its blonde hacker genius, too. (That's why I find it HILARIOUS when people use Smallville as the example to emulate when arguing O/L must be together bc canon. Legit HILARIOUS.)

Smallville also didn't have BC around for more then like 4 total episodes.