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We Get to Be the Judges!


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Yeah, me too.  They hopefully know what they're up against. 

 

Maddie has pretty good technique so she might do ok?  I don't know.  It'll depend on who else is there I guess.  They say she's a very good student, so perhaps she'll do well in the ballet/jazz auditions and that'll count in her favor.  I don't know if it will hurt or help her that all the judges will probably know who she is ahead of time.  But then again, they also know who Tate is, who is Emma is, etc.  

Mackenzie is doing "Take That" which is her typical acro solo... hopefully they don't put her in pig tails!

 

Anyway, I watched the dance-off last night.  Kalani made top 3 (well, 4, I guess they couldn't chose).  

 

ETA: If anyone is interested, here are the links to the dance-off

 

Junior girls - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX2-sLvDitY

 

Teen girls - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VueHM5s8Cyw

Thanks for the links - some of those kids were fantastic and I have to say that watching the juniors - many of whom seemed to be Maddie age when Dance Moms first started - they are just as good as Maddie. The girls were all just lucky that their studio was picked to make the show because there are many talented kids out there.

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I agree, there are so many talented kids out there! That's why Maddie needs to learn how to handle loss better. There's no guarantee she'll win at any of these REAL comps as there are quite a few talented girls out there. In the real world she's not guaranteed that win. Apparently not on the show anymore either! It will be interesting to see how she places at The Dance Awards in New York. 

 

For those of us who have been talking about Tate McRae, she placed 2nd in Juniors at the National Finale of NYCDA. She danced "Rule the World" (different from the video link upthread). Jasmine Cruz placed 1st. Here is Tate dancing her solo "Rule the World" at NUVO: 

 

The results from The Dance Awards Vegas were announced tonight. Kalani placed 3rd in Teen. Kalani is a lovely dancer when she is able to show off her talents and not having to dance dumbed down for the show. It goes to show though that there are plenty of talented dancers out there and Maddie hopefully is not thinking that a win is going to be no problem for her.

Edited by brokefromdance
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Do you have the dates for the NY awards? I'm really surprised Mac is going because as adorable as she is ( and I noticed in a couple of episodes - that cuteness is going away as she grows ) she is no where near the caliber of what Maddie was at that age.

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The good news is that allows Kalani to compete for Best Dance again next year at TDA, they have a one year exclusionary rule.  If she quits the show and spends time in class back at her studio her chances would be better, honestly.

 

I've said all along that Maddie isn't all that special, in that there are so many incredibly talented kids out there competing, she's one of probably 50 across the country in her age cohort, and as always, different judges, different day.

 

Here is the TDA NYC Schedule.

 

Who were the top three for Jr's?  Wasn't Sophia Lucia amongst the top 10?

Edited by NextIteration
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Sophia Lucia won last year so ineligible to compete again until she's in the Teen category. Jaycee Wilkins won Junior, Quinn Strarner got 2nd and Bostyn Brown got 3rd I believe. Some of this is going by memory after a long day so hopefully I'm giving correct info! The results should be posted soon I'd imagine. 

Edited by brokefromdance
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Omg I'm so happy for Lucy valley. She won best dancer in the teen division in Vegas. She's a beautiful dancer.

I also just saw Kalani with the top 4. Goodness puberty really hit her.

"Boston Brown"? Is that a kid's name?!

Look up Dora Dolphin. Yes that's her real name.

Okay I'm really dumb. Jaycee did win best dancer this year in Vegas. I'm very happy for her. She's an amazing dancer. Kira said that Kalani only had three weeks to prepare and filmed dance moms for 8 months. So Kalani's dance training wasn't really a priority this year. But she still managed top 3 at a very tough competition. She should be proud of herself.

Edited by Darknight
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Sophia Lucia won last year so ineligible to compete again until she's in the Teen category. Jaycee Wilkins won Junior, Quinn Strarner got 2nd and Bostyn Brown got 3rd I believe. Some of this is going by memory after a long day so hopefully I'm giving correct info! The results should be posted soon I'd imagine.

Results of tdavegas so far

Avery Gay, Mini Best dancer Female

Jaycee Wilkins, Junior best dancer female

Lucy Valley, Teen best dancer female

Ashley Greene, Senior best dancer female

Club Dance did really well.

Garvin Morales, mini best dancer male

Edited by Darknight
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Kira said that Kalani only had three weeks to prepare and filmed dance moms for 8 months. So Kalani's dance training wasn't really a priority this year. But she still managed top 3 at a very tough competition. She should be proud of herself.

 

Kira should step off apologizing or making excuses for things that are self-evident and think about not renewing her contract in Kalani's best dance interests if that is what is most important to them.  It seems to me watching an interview with Kalani from ALDC LA's Grand Opening that she's all systems go for next season and happy, happy, happy about the opportunities Dance Moms has given her.  Kalani is my current favorite but you can't have it both ways.  That said, perhaps now that the studio is opened, tech classes will take a higher priority again if there is a sixth season.

 

Certainly, this sort of proves what the mothers were saying in the most recent episode about the importance of classes (which a lot of us knew), but excuse me Kira, it might not just be Maddie that is stagnating.

Edited by NextIteration
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@NextIteration I understand about the giggles. :) It was a funny typo, but really if you're going to call your kid Bostyn you should at least spell it the right way! Haha. BTW my autocorrect once again wanted to spell it Boston! Good job I was paying attention this time. :)

 

@Darknight Interesting point about Kalani and the three weeks to prepare but I wonder what Kira means by preparing. Was that learning a solo and cleaning it or was that working on technique and cleaning a solo she's had for a while? Either way she did great! I haven't followed Kalani at all this year other than on the show so maybe you or someone else knows the answer to that? I agree with @NextIteration if Kira is making excuses she needs to take a good look about returning to the show if there is another season. She can't be complaining about the lack of training time and then sign on again without realizing there might be consequences. 

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Both Kalani and JoJo qualified as Breakout Dancers at Nuvo in Minneapolis in February representing their "home" studios.  JoJo's solo placed fifth in Jr and Kalani's solo "Video Games" was first overall in Teen, even though we are flyover country we have a few powerhouse studios here so they did very well.  Kalani of course, also qualified at jump when she attended with ALDC.

Edited by NextIteration
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Kira should step off apologizing or making excuses for things that are self-evident and think about not renewing her contract in Kalani's best dance interests if that is what is most important to them. It seems to me watching an interview with Kalani from ALDC LA's Grand Opening that she's all systems go for next season and happy, happy, happy about the opportunities Dance Moms has given her. Kalani is my current favorite but you can't have it both ways. That said, perhaps now that the studio is opened, tech classes will take a higher priority again if there is sixth season.

Certainly, this sort of proves what the mother's were saying in the most recent episode about the importance of classes (which a lot of us knew), but excuse me Kira, it might not just be Maddie that is stagnating.

Can I give this 1000 likes. You wrote exactly what I was thinking when I read Kira posts. Kira is just another Melissa but the water down version. The shit she says on social media makes me give her the side eye. She's also bragging how Kalani has a job and how her life is so hard compared to other dancers. Kalani wakes up at 7, does school, tries to fit in dance training, goes to work all day, then goes to bed around 10/11 but still has a bunch of titles and still wins at real competitions even learning choreography in a short period of time. Gee that sounds like a lot of dancers I know, including my own.

And choreography and dance training are two different things.

Edited by Darknight
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@NextIteration I understand about the giggles. :) It was a funny typo, but really if you're going to call your kid Bostyn you should at least spell it the right way! Haha. BTW my autocorrect once again wanted to spell it Boston! Good job I was paying attention this time. :)

@Darknight Interesting point about Kalani and the three weeks to prepare but I wonder what Kira means by preparing. Was that learning a solo and cleaning it or was that working on technique and cleaning a solo she's had for a while? Either way she did great! I haven't followed Kalani at all this year other than on the show so maybe you or someone else knows the answer to that? I agree with @NextIteration if Kira is making excuses she needs to take a good look about returning to the show if there is another season. She can't be complaining about the lack of training time and then sign on again without realizing there might be consequences.

From what Kira posted, Kalani goes back and forth between Arizona and Pennsylvania. She thanked Alexa and Cory for working with Kalani and preparing her. So Kalani probably had a short amount of time to clean, learn and rehearsal her solos on top of taking class. Kira tries to find opportunities for Kalani to take dance classes while filming. She's also complaining about the lack of dance training Abby has.

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Gee that sounds like a lot of dancers I know, including my own.

 

Exactly.

 

And without the free opportunities like trips to Europe and Australia, not to mention travel all around the country.

Edited by NextIteration
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Both Kalani and JoJo qualified as Breakout Dancers at Nuvo in Minneapolis in February representing their "home" studios.  JoJo's solo placed fifth in Jr and Kalani's solo "Video Games" was first overall in Teen, even though we are flyover country we have a few powerhouse studios here so they did very well.  Kalani of course, also qualified at jump when she attended with ALDC.

 

 

From what Kira posted, Kalani goes back and forth between Arizona and Pennsylvania. She thanked Alexa and Cory for working with Kalani and preparing her. So Kalani probably had a short amount of time to clean, learn and rehearsal her solos on top of taking class. Kira tries to find opportunities for Kalani to take dance classes while filming. She's also complaining about the lack of dance training Abby has.

 

If Kalani did "Video Games" in Minneapolis then at least she already knew that solo and just had to work on cleaning it. Perhaps the other solo was new but really isn't part of dancing learning new choreo and picking it up quickly? Yes, this is TDA, so obviously they all want to have taken plenty of time to prepare so I get that it was a small time frame for Kalani but again it comes down to the choices Kira and Kalani have made. They have chosen to be on DM so this is part of the consequences. Don't complain Kira, this has given Kalani opportunities that other girls haven't been able to have. If you're so concerned about the lack of training then leave the show. Can't have it both ways.

 

Gee that sounds like a lot of dancers I know, including my own.

 

Yes! This!! 

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ETA: Emma York who danced for Sia's song "Elastic Heart" on Dancing With The Stars (instead of Maddie, was there ever an explanation for that?) is also going to dance tonight.

 

Emma's a beautiful dancer that doesn't pull attention?  Just a theory.  Actually it's probably because Maddie had just been on practically the week before.

 

I think it's really strange that Maddie competed that solo for best dancer, maybe for final solo - but something that's aired on teevee? Hmmm...

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Not impressed with either of the girls' videos. Mac's was all tricks and very little dance - but Maddie's - I couldn't even concentrate on the moves - that costume was awful - looks like she's in a war torn country or a zombie apocalypse.

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Here's Tate

 

 

Her lines and control are just ridiculous! 

 

Agree with you all about the solos... I knew Maddie was going to do 'All of gods creatures'... and a lot of them do solos they've done before because they're perfected and clean, so I understand maybe she didn't have time to learn something new... but I was really hoping she'd come out in a simpler, cleaner costume instead of that weird bulky thing.  

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Here's Tate

 

 

Her lines and control are just ridiculous! 

 

Agree with you all about the solos... I knew Maddie was going to do 'All of gods creatures'... and a lot of them do solos they've done before because they're perfected and clean, so I understand maybe she didn't have time to learn something new... but I was really hoping she'd come out in a simpler, cleaner costume instead of that weird bulky thing.  

 

Did someone win yet?  This type of "dance" seems to win a lot now and it's too bad.  It looks like a floor routine for gymnastics.  This dance is all about showing that she can lift her right leg up to her ear.  She does that more than once. She only uses her right side.  There's no musicality, which should be a requirement to be considered a top dancer. 

 

Maddie's dance was better but I'm sure she will be penalized for not wearing a skimpy costume with an ugly bun on top of the head.  And she had way too many repetitive turns. 

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Lemons, my daughter agrees with you - she thinks all these "contemporary" routines look like rhythmic gymnastics.

 

What I do appreciate though, and this seems to run all the way through competitive dance, is the trend away from uber blinged out costumes.  I really took note of it last week when I was watching Larkin's group dances that were put up from TDA, they used to always have costumes that easily cost over $400 because of all the stoning.  Only problem is, why couldn't it have been that way when the costumes were on my dime? lol

 

Pretty sure that my daughter has the leo that Tate is wearing, or something really similar.

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I wonder how friendly Maddie and Mac are with these other girls at the competitions. Many in gymnastics, skating ect - know each other but are still friendly despite the fact hey want to win. Being the Ziegler girls are all over the place now on TV, ads ect... I wonder if they have a better than you attitude ( as Melissa demonstrates all the time ) or not. Do they have their entourage of bodyguards?

 

Anyone seen or heard of anything?

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Did someone win yet?  This type of "dance" seems to win a lot now and it's too bad.  It looks like a floor routine for gymnastics.  This dance is all about showing that she can lift her right leg up to her ear.  She does that more than once. She only uses her right side.  There's no musicality, which should be a requirement to be considered a top dancer. 

 

Maddie's dance was better but I'm sure she will be penalized for not wearing a skimpy costume with an ugly bun on top of the head.  And she had way too many repetitive turns. 

 

Well to each their own :)  Tate is, to me, absolutely stunning.  That's not to say I don't also like Maddie's solo... but her costume was just distracting and covered up her lines at times. I wouldn't really call Tate's outfit skimpy though, its just a regular dance leotard. But you're right - this kind of dance does win a lot... Tate won Best Dancer at TDA 2 years ago, she was 2nd at NYCDA this year, and her contemporary solo took 1st at YAGP.  

 

Anyway, no winner yet.  I think top 20 will be announced on Friday, then they'll whittle it down to 10 for the dance-off.  Then top 3 will re-compete their solos.  I really hope Maddie makes top 10 because I'd love to see her improv! 

Edited by sofiah
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I didn't really love Tate's solo in terms of the choreography and I don't know if I think there is a lot of artistry happening there, but I think the solo was far superior to Maddie's from a technique perspective.  So I guess one could argue Maddie is a better performer, but I don't think Maddie's technique is anywhere close to some of these other little girls who spend most of their time in class as opposed to sitting on Hollywood sound stages.

 

Also there is nothing skimpy about this girl's costume.  It's pretty straight forward dance leotard.  If anything I agree that Maddie's costume was too much and made it that much harder to see her lines.  They could have toned it down slightly.

 

Anyway, Maddie did well enough despite the fact that I'm sure she didn't really have much time to prepare.  Mack, well...she's a cute girl, but her solos all look the same.

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I can't say I enjoyed watching Tate's solo, there just isn't much in the way of "dancing" going on there - it feels much more like a gymnastics routine. That said, I'm blown away by her technique and her control. Her lines are beautiful and she's clearly superior to Maddie in that regard.

 

Maddie's solo was a little messy I thought. She's STILL falling out of her turns - she should have much better control of that by now - 12 is young, but she's not a little girl any longer. What Maddie does that the others don't do as well is emote and sell the program. 

 

I hated Mack's. When will they allow this girl to act her age? She's long past these kiddie routines and has more skills than she shows in this video. And please, please, please, take that circle things out of her programs, it drives me crazy. Notice though that she did not fall out of the one turn she had ;)

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Maddie's solo was a little messy I thought. She's STILL falling out of her turns - she should have much better control of that by now - 12 is young, but she's not a little girl any longer. What Maddie does that the others don't do as well is emote and sell the program. 

 

 

That's it, Maddie sells the program.  That's what gets a dancer hired.  It's like any entertainer.  A singer can have perfect pitch but if they are boring to watch they won't make it.   I know competition dancers focus a lot on turns, but it's not unusual for 12 year olds to not have perfect turns.  At professional schools you won't see perfect turns on every 12 year old. 

 

I didn't mean that the dancer in the above video had a skimpy outfit on, she didn't.  But a lot of the girls wear bras and booty shorts with buns on top of their heads.  Maddie's outfit was not typical and it probably didn't help her.  And her dance just wasn't original enough to really get noticed.

 

The other girl showed good flexibility (at least on her right side) and control.  But a lot of prepubescent dancers can do that, especially in the better ballet schools.  She's at an age where she needs to start dancing.

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That's it, Maddie sells the program.  That's what gets a dancer hired.  It's like any entertainer.  A singer can have perfect pitch but if they are boring to watch they won't make it.   I know competition dancers focus a lot on turns, but it's not unusual for 12 year olds to not have perfect turns.  At professional schools you won't see perfect turns on every 12 year old. 

 

Maybe not on every 12 year old, but I danced for a long time as a kid and falling out of turns was just not something you still did at that age, at least not regularly, and certainly not if you wanted a lead role in performance. There was a lot of focus on core strength and control, movements had to be complete. I went to a ballet school, so competition dance may be different. I do notice in the videos she's done that Maddie is more polished so it may have something to do with choreography, direction, or rehearsal time.

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But I guess it goes back to what are we discussing here?  If the conversation is about who is going to win at the TDA's then it's obviously not going to be Maddie by any long shot because technique wise she is behind several dancers in her age group.  Dancers that attend ballet training and classes and etc. on a regular basis.  Things that Maddie doesn't do much of currently.

 

If we're talking about who is going to get booked for jobs in LA, well, do we know what any of these little girls want to do?  Maddie has a lot more practice in the actual biz than they do at the moment, so she should look more seasoned in that regard.  She's been on television for years now and has performed at all sorts of high profile industry events.  She knows how to perform.

 

So it all works in Maddie's favor if we are talking about her going on auditions in LA for dance related parts.  But if she wants to continue to compete in actual dance competitions and place first all the time, well, that's not going to happen unless her technique improves.

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Does the show film at this competition (since it's not a fake competition)?

 

As far as I know, they do not film at TDA, or any of the regionals - Jump, Nuvo or 24/7.  I imagine that if they are currently filming then it might be mentioned by Abby, as in "Maddie and Mackenzie are gone to a competition only they are good enough for"  kind of thing.  

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No. My dancers dance because they love it. It's also a great experience to travel, learn choreography, and work towards goals. Yes sometimes they do want to win, depending on the comp but most of the time they're doing this because they love it

Aren't you disgusted by Abby?  Or is it just me.  Just curious.  Also, is she all that in the dance world or is it just for reality?  Also, does her studio in LA do well?  I'm curious about her reputation.  TYIA

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12 year olds shouldn't be falling out of their turns.  If they can't do the turns properly then they shouldn't be on stage.  All the ALDC girls were fantastic when they were nine, because they danced an absurd amount for their age (and they were naturally gifted).  They haven't kept up with their ballet classes and it shows.

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As far as I know, they do not film at TDA, or any of the regionals - Jump, Nuvo or 24/7.  I imagine that if they are currently filming then it might be mentioned by Abby, as in "Maddie and Mackenzie are gone to a competition only they are good enough for"  kind of thing.  

 

I think they are forbidden from taping at almost every single "legitimate" competition.  IIRC we've only seen one non-invitational competition this season (I could be wrong) and then there were the references to jump but no actual taping at the convention. (I think it was a Starbound, which may have changed but when I was active on a certain board years ago, had an awful, awful reputation.)

 

They manipulated results so badly the first season that most of them told them to take a hike.

 

I also think they got exposed for cheating too - they were in the "intermediate" division a couple times, which was a complete falsehood.

Edited by NextIteration
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Aren't you disgusted by Abby? Or is it just me. Just curious. Also, is she all that in the dance world or is it just for reality? Also, does her studio in LA do well? I'm curious about her reputation. TYIA

Abby is a big bitch! No she wasn't all that in the dance world. She still isn't. Top choreographers and teachers talk bad about her all the time. Even sharkcookie a very well known dance photographer in CA doesn't like her attitude. I didn't know who the hell Abby was until the show. My studio owner never heard of her and she was a former professional dancer on Broadway. My own kids have been dancers for over 10 years, never heard of Abby Lee Miller. So Abby bragging about how famous she is in the dance world is laughable to me. The show put her out there. Before the show she was a regular studio and had a small number of kids go on to become professionals. Just like a bunch of other studios. As for her studio in la, some dancers from my kids studio went to check it out. It's more of an advertisement than a studio. They use the girls to get people to sign up. Rebecca Davis(RG Dance) taught a class there. Students were also teaching combos and classes. Funny how her studio is away from the other top studios in California.

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I am so excited, Maddie made the top 10!  Good for her!  Tate and Emma as well.

 

They'll have the improv dance off if anyone wants to watch.  Just go to 'The Dance Awards' website and there's a link to the Ustream. 

Edited by sofiah
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Ha sofiah, I was just going to post and ask if the top 10 were announced yet.  I'll watch the dance-off clips later.  Perfect timing!

 

Maddie was actually so much better then I thought she would be!

 

 I think I can confidently say that in my opinion Abby and her choreography are holding Maddie back.  I enjoyed her improv so much more then I enjoy any of her solos!  

 

And she made top 4!!!

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Is it a tie situation?  So that top 4 go on to compete for the title?

 

There must have been a tie between two of the girls, yes, because it's usually top 3.  Happened in Vegas as well. 

 

Now the top 4 will re-compete their solos.  Then their solo, audition (jazz and ballet), and improv scores will be tallied and one of them will win the title.  I don't think the winner will be announced until Sunday though. 

 

Also, in case anyone is interested... I think Mackenzie made top 20, but was eliminated before top 10.  

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NYC puts Vegas at a disadvantage, it's the same song.

 

Yeah they used all the same songs, for every division.  Weird choice to do that.  I actually thought the Vegas group had some more interesting improvs (with a few exceptions) anyway! 

Edited by sofiah
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@sofiah, do you know if Lilly was the fourth in the top 4?

 

If anyone is interested, you can watch the finale live here at 6:30 edt Sunday night (right now).

 

eta: I found it @sofiah, I thought it would be Lilly, I win, tee hee.

Edited by NextIteration
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So I couldn't quite hear the first place winner, but I think it was Tate first, Emma second, and Maddie third for junior best female?

Interesting that Lucas Triana (and none of the other kids from DM Miami) isn't competing with Stars.

 

Maddie fourth, Emma third, Lilly second and Tate first.  

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For anyone who wants to know about the results from tdanyc

Mini Best dancer female- Jezzaeyah Slack(her name tho)

Junior best dancer female Tate McRae(she also won mini best dancer a few years ago)

Teen best dancer female - Payton Johnson

Senior best dancer female- Jasmine James

Well at least Maddie didn't get second because we all know that's first runner-up *eye roll*

I think that she should be proud of how she placed considering the competition. Must sting a bit to be beaten by Emma since they're both working professional dancers and Abby wont be able to use that as an excuse.

Looks like only the Zieglers competed with the studio in the junior group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGr20sud-4g

Fourth is the biggest loser, but you've tried your best. The judges were having an off day that's why Maddie didn't win- Abby Lee miller.

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