S07.E09: Birthday In The Berks

[Crikey]

Many events are not used in episodes.  We get a glimpse at some of those events in the lost footage episodes at the end of the season.  

I remember Joyce,  on RHOBH, saying she was at a luncheon with, I think , Brandi and Yolanda discussing LisaV.  The chat was filmed but never shown although it would have been, IMO, very important to the season.  Apparently, Yo and Brandikins were talking smack about LisaV and trying to get Joyce on board.  Joyce mentioned the whole thing in an interview.

For me that was the editors/producers choosing to leave out something that seems pivotal.  I think they do that on all the shows, RHONY included.

[Crikey]

The answer is easy Sonja walked the plank twice. Once backing into it.

OUCH!  Splinters!  lol

[Rahul]

I've never liked Heather and frankly I now feel my dislike of her is justified! For me, her need to "fix" is not out of genuine kindness, it's a desire to stroke her own ego and control a situation. She exhausts me too and I fucking hate the way she smiles. I hate the scrunched up nose, the clamped together like she's having a seizure teeth. (I have epilepsy so I feel I can make the comparison!) There's something I find incredibly insincere about her.

I too find Heather extremely disingenuous (as I do her appropriation of dated urban lingo). I don't think she is always coming from a place of kindness or desire to help. Didn't she recently exclaim she wanted to see Sonja flat out fail with her various business ventures? And telling Bethenny she can starve because she rejected her meatball offer?

No, Heather is not nice. She is the definition of controlling and has a mean streak a mile wide.

[WireWrap]

Because I was talking about *Heather's part in that event* as indicative of her interfering, sexually snoop-sistery ways -- why would I then go on to include every housewife and what they did, when my point was about *Heather*?  

 

As the links I posted show, Heather saw them & delivered a snide little talking head about the bruises on Sonja suddenly making sense.

OK, but it was said in response to Carole's announcement that Sonja was caught "doing something that is still illegal in most states"!

 

I finally watched the episode earlier today (although I had already read this thread!)

Eh, Bethenny's brittleness doesn't really bother me. I mean, people don't always react to stress in ways that necessarily make them sympathetic to others. I'm hospitalised with anorexia atm; at least once a day I have an internal pity party with myself about how much my life sucks right now and how I'm a fucking adult who doesn't have the freedom to a) leave or b) make my own medical decisions. Catch me in the wrong mood and I'm equally as likely to bite your head off or burst into tears. More bite your head off, if I'm honest. I'm every bit as brittle and tightly wound as Bethenny is right now and truthfully as a result I don't always respond in a pretty way that make it easy for others to empathise. I don't consider these meltdowns my finest moments but human nature is not so black and white and people respond to stress differently.

However, I would not go on a reality show because unlike Bethenny I do seem to be aware my fragility and reaction to it isn't exactly the most endearing thing about me. I have no idea what Bethenny's reasons were for coming back, but it was a bad, bad move... And I say that as someone who, overall, likes Bethenny although I wouldn't want to be friends with her, or even know her since I imagine she's exhausting to be around whether she's "happy" or "sad."

I've never liked Heather and frankly I now feel my dislike of her is justified! For me, her need to "fix" is not out of genuine kindness, it's a desire to stroke her own ego and control a situation. She exhausts me too and I fucking hate the way she smiles. I hate the scrunched up nose, the clamped together like she's having a seizure teeth. (I have epilepsy so I feel I can make the comparison!) There's something I find incredibly insincere about her.

Luann looked amazing at Dorinda's gathering! While I wouldn't wear the dress since I consider it "too old" for me, I thought Luann looked beautiful. One thing about her is that she almost always looks fabulous while being completely age appropriate. I'm liking Luann these last few seasons. I've just been re-watching seasons 1-4 and Christ, for many reasons, she was insufferable throughout them particularly with her shoving the Countess shtick down everyone's throats and crawling up Jill's arse season 3/4.

I love Ramona. I can't help it. But then I also love Tre, Vicki, Nene, Lisa V, Phaedra so there's probably something wrong with me! :)

IMO, Heather has this need to help everyone because of her very, very ill son, Jax. Most likely he will need another liver transplant in a few years, the average life span of a transplanted organ is about 9 years and Jax has surpassed that time with his. He also has other physical problems that affect his day to day life and there is very little that Heather/Jonathan can do about them so she transfers that need to help, to make things better, onto others around her. She is very involved with several charities as well to help fill that need. If people are willing to cut Bethenny slack for her nasty behavior because of her childhood/custody/divorce I do not see why they do not afford Heather the same latitude/forgiveness. JMO 

[FaithsMum]

I too find Heather extremely disingenuous (as I do her appropriation of dated urban lingo). I don't think she is always coming from a place of kindness or desire to help. Didn't she recently exclaim she wanted to see Sonja flat out fail with her various business ventures? And telling Bethenny she can starve because she rejected her meatball offer?

No, Heather is not nice. She is the definition of controlling and has a mean streak a mile wide.

Yeah, I agree - I think Heather is a mean girl in some ways. The outdated lingo/cultural appropriation doesn't particularly bother me since I consider it (rightly or wrongly) "Americanism's" and based on that I wouldn't watch anything produced by the US! I do find her use or "mama" irritating though, mostly because she's not their mother. I have no problem with terms of endearments; the guy in the shop I buy cigarettes from doesn't offend me by calling me "love" or "darling" but I guess, I don't really get the mama thing. I did wonder if it annoyed Bethenny so much because that's what Jason used to call her. LuAnn tweeted a couple of weeks ago that she wants to "cook" Heather when she says "what's cookin' Mama?" so it apparently irritates more than just Bethenny.

I thought it was pretty mean of her to exclude Ramona from her London trip back in her first season. Yeah, she and Ramona weren't exactly BFF's at the time and in any other situation I wouldn't have an issue with that but this is a reality show, and she's your colleague. She either genuinely did not invite her or she played along with production for a storyline, either way that isn't endearing. And yes, I get they all/many of them play along but they all suck for doing so. Brave obviously approved of Ramona not being invited since while I think Kelly Bensimon is a nutjob, I believe her that she was at least strongly encouraged to go to Scary Island.

I'm on the Morocco trip of S4 and will re-watch S5 when I've finished but I have this vague memory of Heather/Ramona butting heads and then Heather proceeding to follow Ramona around at an event with her serial killer smile in an attempt to rile her. Can anyone else remember the details any better?

[film noire]

OK, but it was said in response to Carole's announcement that Sonja was caught "doing something that is still illegal in most states"!

 

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what we've been discussing  -- you taking issue with my post about Heather's snarky sexual buttinsky ways & her comment in that episode -- I'm starting to believe the whole "fans of Heather will do anything to avoid discussing her behavior" theory:).

Edited June 8, 2015 by film noire

[Mozelle]

Didn't understand that clip...I guess we will see next week.

 

scully reference - is she talking about x-files Scully?

She should have said I am gonna go Bad Boy on you so that she could tie in another P Diddy reference.

 

A skully is a skull cap.

[Grneyedldy]

Didn't understand that clip...I guess we will see next week.

 

scully reference - is she talking about x-files Scully?

She should have said I am gonna go Bad Boy on you so that she could tie in another P Diddy reference.

I'm pretty sure she's referring to that stupid knit hat she was wearing when John arrived and when she helped Dorinda start the fire. Just like the one Carole was wearing at Ramona's UES birthday lunch. I guess it's hipster chic. I just know they both looked stupid and I wanted to reach through the tv and knock them off their heads. At least when Heather wore hers there was snow outside. Outside being the important word here, where one is supposed to where knit hats.

[film noire]

Didn't understand that clip...I guess we will see next week.

 

scully reference - is she talking about x-files Scully?

She should have said I am gonna go Bad Boy on you so that she could tie in another P Diddy reference.

 

It's from the First Look ep -- Heather threatened to get out her "skully" (skullcap) and teach Bethenny a lesson -- she sounded like a total idiot, imo.

 

eta: spelling 

Edited June 8, 2015 by film noire

[FaithsMum]

IMO, Heather has this need to help everyone because of her very, very ill son, Jax. Most likely he will need another liver transplant in a few years, the average life span of a transplanted organ is about 9 years and Jax has surpassed that time with his. He also has other physical problems that affect his day to day life and there is very little that Heather/Jonathan can do about them so she transfers that need to help, to make things better, onto others around her. She is very involved with several charities as well to help fill that need. If people are willing to cut Bethenny slack for her nasty behavior because of her childhood/custody/divorce I do not see why they do not afford Heather the same latitude/forgiveness. JMO

Transplanted livers can last up to 30 years, unless Heather has said otherwise with regards to Jax? I fast forward through many of her scenes and have since midway through her first season. Not that I'm in any way dismissing Jax's health problems or the stress that comes from having a very ill kid.

I do see the point you're making and it's likely her sons illness has contributed to her controlling nature but honestly I find it hard to believe Heather wasn't, on some level, this way prior to having Jax. Type A personalities don't form overnight. To me, Jax probably exacerbated what was already a part of her character. Whilst I was doing my nursing degree, I worked as a carer for young adults who have severe learning/physical disabilities; all but one of their parents did not behave like Heather and frankly, from our point of view, she was a fucking nightmare.

I think the thing is with not cutting Heather slack is that some people just don't like her. It's unfair, yes - but generally those people who are more forgiving towards her are the same people who think Bethenny needs to get over her childhood. Sidenote: not directed at you personally, just an observation. :) Like everyone, Bethenny can be obnoxious - maybe even more than most - but I find her entertaining enough that while sometimes I side-eye her, it's not enough to make me dislike her. Since Heather just irritates the shit out of me, I'm not so generous. As I said, it's absolutely unfair but I don't post on here to be a paragon of fairness and impartiality. :)

Edited June 8, 2015 by FaithsMum

[WireWrap]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what we've been discussing  -- you taking issue with my post about Heather's snarky sexual buttinsky ways & her comment in that episode -- I'm starting to believe the whole "fans of Heather will do anything to avoid discussing her behavior" theory:).

No, not all. I just did not find Heather or Carole out of line and IMO, if you judge 1 harshly, then both should be held to the same standard. Isolating the comments made by 1 when someone else was part of that conversation/snark is taking it out of context. Oh, and I don't think "fans" of Heather's do anything different than "fans" of Bethenny, Dorinda, Ramona or any of the other HWs. JMO

[motorcitymom65]

Sounds like sour apples on Kristen's part. Other events haven't been attended by Bethenny and they made the cut. Perhaps Kristen needs to plan more fun and/or eventful outings that might stand a chance of making it to our tv screens.

Yes indeed. It is too bad that she didn't have a terrible childhood requiring multiple episodes with her Therapist, childhood friend, and abusive step-parent, because that shit is just beyond fascinating. Honestly, it is so hard to believe that the other ladies filmed less interesting stuff than lots of the depressing crap with Beth. Oh right - the narrative of the year is about how much Beth has overcome and endured. Doesn't matter if it is interesting or not, this is the story we get. As anyone who has watched the lost footage episodes knows, it certainly isn't about planning fun/eventful outings. Those shows almost always have far more entertaining segments and almost universally folks gripe that we didn't get to see that during the season.

I'm not a fan of Kristen's at all. She is what I call a "meh" girl. I don't like or dislike her, which means it would be more than OK with me to not see her again. I would say I prefer Beth to her. I will say, however, that she wasn't bitching about Beth not showing up to some things in her blog. She was explaining, particularly in regard to Beth's comment that she didn't invite her to her party because she didn't know her. She said she had tried on several occasions prior to that to get to know Beth by inviting her to things, but that she did not come.

[sasha206]

Soooooo, if I grind on Daniel Craig I cannot complain if he gets handsy with me?  I will give him 3 hours before I start whining, maybe 4 but no more than 6  ;)

John may have junk but, I am guessing, DC ain't packing any junk lol

 

I would so grind on Daniel Craig and not complain if he gets handsy!

[KungFuBunny]

It's from the First Look ep -- Heather threatened to get out her "scully" (scullcap) and teach Bethenny a lesson -- she sounded like a total idiot, imo.

Oh I guess this is another example of how nice Heather is being to Bethenny.

What's next a plate of nuked Meatballs?

I'm pretty sure she's referring to that stupid knit hat she was wearing when John arrived and when she helped Dorinda start the fire. Just like the one Carole was wearing at Ramona's UES birthday lunch. I guess it's hipster chic. I just know they both looked stupid and I wanted to reach through the tv and knock them off their heads. At least when Heather wore hers there was snow outside. Outside being the important word here, where one is supposed to where knit hats.

When I saw Carole wearing that knit hat I thought she stole it from Ashley Holmes or Joey Gorga

[WireWrap]

Transplanted livers can last up to 30 years, unless Heather has said otherwise with regards to Jax? I fast forward through many of her scenes and have since midway through her first season. Not that I'm in any way dismissing Jax's health problems or the stress that comes from having a very ill kid.

I do see the point you're making and it's likely her sons illness has contributed to her controlling nature but honestly I find it hard to believe Heather wasn't, on some level, this way prior to having Jax. Type A personalities don't form overnight. To me, Jax probably exacerbated what was already a part of her character. Whilst I was doing my nursing degree, I worked as a carer for young adults who have severe learning/physical disabilities; all but one of their parents did not behave like Heather and frankly, from our point of view, she was a fucking nightmare.

I think the thing is with not cutting Heather slack is that some people just don't like her. It's unfair, yes - but generally those people who are more forgiving towards her are the same people who think Bethenny needs to get over her childhood. Sidenote: not directed at you personally, just an observation. :) Like everyone, Bethenny can be obnoxious - maybe even more than most - but I find her entertaining enough that while sometimes I side-eye her, it's not enough to make me dislike her. Since Heather just irritates the shit out of me, I'm not so generous. As I said, it's absolutely unfair but I don't post on here to be a paragon of fairness and impartiality. :)

I am Pharmacy and liver transplants, which I was on the transplant team in the leading LT hospital in PA, do not last 30 years, the average is 9 years.

 

I was once a fan f Bethnny's until her own spin offs but saw something smug/mean about her that turned me off big time. I just can't get past her lack of honesty about her life this season as well.  

 

I think we all post to give our opinions about each HW no matter what the other opinions are. That is what makes it fun/interesting IMO.

[motorcitymom65]

Oh I guess this is another example of how nice Heather is being to Bethenny.

What's next a plate of nuked Meatballs?

When I saw Carole wearing that knit hat I thought she stole it from Ashley Holmes or Joey Gorga

When you see the first look you will understand why Heather is no longing interested in being nice to Beth. I'm sure she has thought she was a bitch almost from the beginning, and now she is finally just saying it out loud.

[FaithsMum]

I am Pharmacy and liver transplants, which I was on the transplant team in the leading LT hospital in PA, do not last 30 years, the average is 9 years.

I was once a fan f Bethnny's until her own spin offs but saw something smug/mean about her that turned me off big time. I just can't get past her lack of honesty about her life this season as well.

I think we all post to give our opinions about each HW no matter what the other opinions are. That is what makes it fun/interesting IMO.

Ah right. I was reading FaithsDad's medical journal the other week and there was an article about livers lasting 30 years. I guess from what I remembered I must have interpreted that as the norm, rather than hugely uncommon. Now that I think about it, I think it said "known to last up to 30 years" which would infer it's rarity, my mistake!

I can totally see why you (and many others) were turned off by Bethenny's spin offs. Bethenny is best when she's being the snarky, but not mean-spirited, Greek chorus. My memories from BGM and BEA are pretty hazy, but from what I can remember she wasn't as likeable or as entertaining... Plus I didn't like Jason, so that probably didn't help either. Her meltdown(s) on her birthday one season, I'm pretty sure, did make me shout at my laptop "get a fucking grip!"

Sorry, I'm on my phone and I'm too lazy to quote paragraph by paragraph but I agree on your final point. I enjoy your posts despite not always agreeing with them. The differing of opinions and perceptions is exactly what makes it fun here! I read much more than I reply and many times, other posters (you're probably one of them!) have made points I haven't considered which have changed my perception of a scene.

[lunastartron]

Although she may be shedding some proponents thanks to her behavior this season, I think that Heather boasts a very devoted core fan base. There may be comments upthread that begin "I used to like Heather but . . ." However, I feel like there are just as many or more (if not more) that characterize aggression like "I can tell you whatever the fuck I want to tell you" or "I'm going to have to separate you two" as well-meaning helpfulness or note that Heather's personal problems "trump" Bethenny's (as if suffering is some sort of competition or everyone responds to difficulties in the same fashion) and argue that Heather should be somehow commended for not referencing those issues when she rolled her eyes at Lu's effort to understand Bethenny's demeanor. (For what it's worth, Heather herself has cut Bethenny no "slack" per what I watched even if she is trying to retcon the content of her remarks at the Inn luncheon.) The thing is, I don't think Heather's conduct and general approach to her co-workers and conflict has really changed between last year and now. She simply could not stop herself from pursuing and escalating a dispute with Aviva that didn't even pertain to her and then subsequently revising what transpired. I remember very distinctly that she wrote that Aviva had "siced her minion" on Heather in her final blog of the season, which was completely counter to the reality that Aviva was engaged with Carole when Amanda initially engaged with Heather and that Heather thereafter recommenced her argument with Amanda of her own volition. But Aviva herself was so vicious - and, for whatever reason, so widely reviled - that any manner of malice from Heather and Carole was cheered. Grabbing a woman's face in her own home and then running to each of her husbands to disparage her? Hell yeah! Screaming "no one here fucking likes you" and other expletives at invitees to a party at which you yourself are a guest after you've instigated arguments? Kudos! Suggesting you're going to invite someone to an event as an olive branch post-reconciliation and then rescinding? Textbook etiquette! And now that the objects of Heather's animosity are no longer someone who has demonstrated a capacity for cruelty herself, the rationalizations have broadened to the premise that cursing across a dinner table and invading the personal space of/grabbing the person you were cussing at is somehow an expression of maternal love. Rolling your eyes at mentions of a woman's childhood trauma/present emotional turmoil and comparing it to a change in domestic help is just normal altruism and a reflection of deep sympathy. All my subjective interpretation, of course.

[AnnA]

I kind of consider Ramona an emoticon....

 

 

Edited June 8, 2015 by AnnA

[BeachyMum]

The problem of course is that we have zero idea what the sequence of events/words/actions ever are. One of my favorite things to do in these scenes is to watch the table scape. Watch a person talking with an empty wine glass in front of them, move to another person for a reaction shot, then back to the person talking and suddenly they have a full wine glass. Or watch how their plates are empty, then 2 seconds later they have food on them.  On the BH show it is always fascinating to watch how Kyle's hair often changes. In one scene it is parted in the middle, then what we think is almost immediately after, part of it is up in a clip. Last season at one dinner Kim Richards had her hair in a ponytail, then it was down around her shoulders, then back up in a ponytail all in what looked to be about 60 seconds. They film these scenes for literally hours and slice the conversations together. None of us even really understand what the conversation at the table was about. It was strange and edited in a way that even those of us who watched it with Closed Captioning aren't completely certain what was being said or who exactly it was all being said too. Having said that, I don't think Heather looked good in that scene at all. 

 

That is not really an excuse. Everyone is in the same boat, but it is becoming much more contrived over the last 2 years on all these shows. The formula over the last few years has become more about a specific story. Back in the day these things were much more organic. Girls would have a good day, then a bad day. There wasn't the necessity to paint one in a specific light to tell a story. The thing that bothers me is when they take a specific HW and edit her in a way that all we see is whatever behavior they want to project. 

 

 

 

   I am so naive. At first I was so disgusted by everyone's behavior at Dorinda's house-even posted that early on. Until someone pointed out editing in a post and I thought let me re-watch and then I caught it. It's a shame because the first season did not start that way and that's why I loved it. Too bad we can't watch ALL of what ends up on the editing floor,after the seasons ends.   I for one would be crazy enough to watch all the scraps left on the floor of the editing room. LOL

[sasha206]

I completely agree with how much fun it is debating housewives.  What I don't quite get is that sometimes people take it so personally if you criticize one of their favorites and then make the "Anything [insert HW] does you hate" comment.

 

For me personally, I can *hate* a HW one episode, and then love them in the next.  Other than Brandi Glanville whom I loathe, most of the housewives have their good points and bad points.   

[KungFuBunny]

When you see the first look you will understand why Heather is no longing interested in being nice to Beth. I'm sure she has thought she was a bitch almost from the beginning, and now she is finally just saying it out loud.

I think you nailed it on the head.

 

I also believe she didn't think much of Bethenny from the get go. Not everyone is going to click or like each other. I would have respected Heather more if she just took this stance from the start...instead of trying to engage Bethenny in any conversation other than I like your shoes, clothes, weather.

[AnnA]

Didn't understand that clip...I guess we will see next week.

 

scully reference - is she talking about x-files Scully?

She should have said I am gonna go Bad Boy on you so that she could tie in another P Diddy reference.

 

 

A skully is a skull cap.

 

According to the Online Slang Dictionary,  Scully is also an X-file reference to someone being doubtful or a "non-believer"

 

Scully

[WireWrap]

I think you nailed it on the head.

 

I also believe she didn't think much of Bethenny from the get go. Not everyone is going to click or like each other. I would have respected Heather more if she just took this stance from the start...instead of trying to engage Bethenny in any conversation other than I like your shoes, clothes, weather.

I think part of the problem with Heather 's confusion/frustration and continued tries at friendship was that they got along when Heather was on Bethenny's talk show. They seemed to enjoy and understand each other and I think Heather may be confused as to what changed. I am willing to bet that Bethenny does not understand what changed since then either. LOL

[Mozelle]

According to the Online Slang Dictionary,  Scully is also an X-file reference to someone being doubtful or a "non-believer"

 

Scully

 

OK. However, the context in which Heather used the word "skully" ("I'm going to go put my skully on so that bitch knows who she's fucking with!") says to me that she's talking about a knit cap.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Mozelle

[motorcitymom65]

I am so naive. At first I was so disgusted by everyone's behavior at Dorinda's house-even posted that early on. Until someone pointed out editing in a post and I thought let me re-watch and then I caught it. It's a shame because the first season did not start that way and that's why I loved it. Too bad we can't watch ALL of what ends up on the editing floor,after the seasons ends.   I for one would be crazy enough to watch all the scraps left on the floor of the editing room. LOL

The dinner scenes are always fun to watch but this one was a total doozy. In this last episode watch where Carole is sitting through the dinner. She begins the dinner in one seat (down at one end by Josh), then seconds later she is sitting directly next to Jonathan (you see him almost touching her chair in one scene). When the deal about the meatball is going on, she is still sitting next to Jon and leans in to whisper with Heather when he gets up for a second. Next thing you know Carole is back down at the end of the table eating, and it goes back and forth like this. More of the same in the episode we will see this week. Watch when Lu starts her toast. It only last for 30 seconds from start to finish but people are in different places when she is finished. It doesn't mean that all of this didn't happen. It just means that for sure it didn't happen in the sequence we are being shown, and that the reaction shots cannot be trusted.

[AnnA]

OK. However, the context in which Heather used the word "skully" ("I'm going to go put my skully on so that bitch knows who she's fucking with!") says to me that she's talking about a knit cap.

 

That's possible.  I have no idea what she meant and googled it.

 

I'm just not sure how wearing a knit cap of any kind makes you a  tougher person.

 

She could have meant that she was going to put on a Scully and not believe anything Bethenny says.

[WireWrap]

That's possible.  I have no idea what she meant and googled it.

 

I'm just not sure how wearing a knit cap of any kind makes you a  tougher person.

 

She could have meant that she was going to put on a Scully and not believe anything Bethenny says.

Hmmmm, maybe a combination of both?!? LOL

[FaithsMum]

I think you nailed it on the head.

I also believe she didn't think much of Bethenny from the get go. Not everyone is going to click or like each other. I would have respected Heather more if she just took this stance from the start...instead of trying to engage Bethenny in any conversation other than I like your shoes, clothes, weather.

I haven't seen the first look but from what's been posted, this sounds likes it could be it.

I would have commended Heather more if she'd just taken the arms length approach to Bethenny too. You don't like everyone you meet and everyone doesn't like you, it's not a big deal. These women aren't friends in the real sense of the word, they're colleagues. I have plenty of colleagues I don't like and the feeling, I'm sure, is entirely mutual.

Bethenny has been very much in the public eye for many years now and no doubt Heather had formed an opinion of her from what she saw/read prior to meeting her, just like we have here. I get that. Plus Heather/all of them have got to be pissed at Bethenny's pay for essentially doing the same "job" and potentially whatever deal she has with Bravo which allows her to miss events. While I don't blame Bethenny for negotiating the best contract she can, I absolutely understand any resentment towards her for it. All that coupled with Bethenny's prickly behaviour this season, Heather just simply doesn't like her but instead of keeping their interactions to small talk and holding her at arms length, she picks at her instead and interject herself into conversations that have fuck all to do with her under the guise of being "helpful." Bad move, Heather.

[BeachyMum]

I think Heather is saying Skully as in skully hats/beanies

[motorcitymom65]

I think you nailed it on the head.

 

I also believe she didn't think much of Bethenny from the get go. Not everyone is going to click or like each other. I would have respected Heather more if she just took this stance from the start...instead of trying to engage Bethenny in any conversation other than I like your shoes, clothes, weather.

I don't think Heather came into this not liking, or not expecting, to like Beth at all. I think just the opposite. I think she made assumptions that they were so silimar that of course they would click. I certainly think that she imagined Beth would find silly people like Ramona and Sonja annoying yet harmless like she does. I think she had a bit of an ego, and I say that as a huge Heather fan. I just don't think it occurred to her at all that they wouldn't hit it off. I do think that she realized Beth was a raging bitch very shortly, and her problem was in either not getting this was directed largely at her in a way that was different from the others, or in pretending to not get it. I'm not sure which is worse. I agree that everyone doesn't have to get along. I have zero problem with Beth not liking Heather and keeping her at arms length. I just want the game to be over. Beth can be honest about not liking Heather and just be upfront about it; be bitchy if she wants. I love that shit. And Heather can stop trying to force a friendship or make Beth like her. She can be bitchy right back at her. I am just glad the pretending is over ,

[LotusFlower]

I also believe she didn't think much of Bethenny from the get go. Not everyone is going to click or like each other. I would have respected Heather more if she just took this stance from the start...instead of trying to engage Bethenny in any conversation other than I like your shoes, clothes, weather.

I don't think this is true. I think they first met when Heather was a guest on Bethenny's talk show, and Heather said she enjoyed it and they got along. Then when the season started, they showed lots of scenes where Heather was trying to get to know her better, but almost from the start, Bethenny put that "wall" up. The rudeness started almost right away (from B to H), and I'm surprised Heather didn't get the hint earlier, but I think she genuinely wanted to get to know her.

[film noire]

Isolating the comments made by 1 when someone else was part of that conversation/snark is taking it out of context. 

Actually, it's not taking it out of context at all, because I was not discussing any of the subjects you've brought up (group dynamics, who said what first, what every other housewife did in that situation, etc etc).  The single point I was making was about Heather's pattern of being ready to spread sexual gossip --  so whether Carole or Aviva or all the saints in Ireland also do so is immaterial to the point I was making (especially because at no point did I insist that *only* Heather engaged in that behavior). 

 

 

However, the context in which Heather used the word "skully" ("I'm going to go put my skully on so that bitch knows who she's fucking with!") says to me that she's talking about a knit cap.

 

LOL (but then,  perhaps Heather was trying to make a believer out of Bethenny through force -- "The bitch is out there, I trust no one -- and I'll deny everything.")

Edited June 8, 2015 by film noire

[motorcitymom65]

I don't think this is true. I think they first met when Heather was a guest on Bethenny's talk show, and Heather said she enjoyed it and they got along. Then when the season started, they showed lots of scenes where Heather was trying to get to know her better, but almost from the start, Bethenny put that "wall" up. The rudeness started almost right away (from B to H), and I'm surprised Heather didn't get the hint earlier, but I think she genuinely wanted to get to know her.

It goes to the fact that we are seeing so little of Heather this year. She mentioned in an interview that she and Beth are so similar in the way they approach business. She said that when it comes to business discussions "we can almost finish each other's sentences". What? Where the hell is there any footage of them connecting on any type of level? It would have been interesting to see them acting as equals and peers, vs Beth always being the one to decide what is appropriate for conversation and making it look like Heather was somehow subordinate to her.

[KungFuBunny]

I haven't seen the first look but from what's been posted, this sounds likes it could be it.

I would have commended Heather more if she'd just taken the arms length approach to Bethenny too. You don't like everyone you meet and everyone doesn't like you, it's not a big deal. These women aren't friends in the real sense of the word, they're colleagues. I have plenty of colleagues I don't like and the feeling, I'm sure, is entirely mutual.

Bethenny has been very much in the public eye for many years now and no doubt Heather had formed an opinion of her from what she saw/read prior to meeting her, just like we have here. I get that. Plus Heather/all of them have got to be pissed at Bethenny's pay for essentially doing the same "job" and potentially whatever deal she has with Bravo which allows her to miss events. While I don't blame Bethenny for negotiating the best contract she can, I absolutely understand any resentment towards her for it. All that coupled with Bethenny's prickly behaviour this season, Heather just simply doesn't like her but instead of keeping their interactions to small talk and holding her at arms length, she picks at her instead and interject herself into conversations that have fuck all to do with her under the guise of being "helpful." Bad move, Heather.

Exactly...Heather pulled similar moves with Sonja. Heather does not like Sonja, she is justified from Sonja's actions towards her regarding the toaster oven debacle. Instead of just being civil with her at events she pretends they are friends. She approaches Sonja at Dorinda's drink event to ask why she was not invited to Sonja's clothing line office under the guise of interest and wishing the best of Sonja's business venture. Truth is she just wants to go to see that it is real and not a mythical unicorn. She showed her true colors towards Sonja at the Latino magazine party. She was not there to say congratulations this is beautiful, I wish you success...she said one dress does not a collection make. I didn't get being a nice supportive friend vibe coming from Heather.

[WireWrap]

Actually, it's not taking it out of context at all, because I was not discussing any of the subjects you've brought up (group dynamics, who said what first, what every other housewife did in that situation, etc etc).  The single point I was making was about Heather's pattern of being ready to spread sexual gossip --  so whether Carole or Aviva or all the saints in Ireland also do so is immaterial to the point I was making (especially because at no point did I insist that *only* Heather engaged in that behavior). 

 

For me, context is important within the group dynamics. I can't judge just Bethenny harshly if she was just 1 part of a conversation that was nasty and the other HW(s) was doing/saying it along with her. Is Heather guilty of gossip?, Yes, as they all are and they all gossip about sex a well, it is what they are paid to do, otherwise they loose the job with Bravo. JMO

Exactly...Heather pulled similar moves with Sonja. Heather does not like Sonja, she is justified from Sonja's actions towards her regarding the toaster oven debacle. Instead of just being civil with her at events she pretends they are friends. She approaches Sonja at Dorinda's drink event to ask why she was not invited to Sonja's clothing line office under the guise of interest and wishing the best of Sonja's business venture. Truth is she just wants to go to see that it is real and not a mythical unicorn. She showed her true colors towards Sonja at the Latino magazine party. She was not there to say congratulations this is beautiful, I wish you success...she said one dress does not a collection make. I didn't get being a nice supportive friend vibe coming from Heather.

The magazine cover party was not about Sonja's dress line, it was only about the magazine and Heather said that Sonja looked beautiful and that the 1 dress from Sonja's line was beautiful. Also, don't forget that Bethenny had already told Heather that she questioned whether or not Sonja' "team" was taking her to the cleaners an if it was real.

[LotusFlower]

She showed her true colors towards Sonja at the Latino magazine party. She was not there to say congratulations this is beautiful, I wish you success...she said one dress does not a collection make. I didn't get being a nice supportive friend vibe coming from Heather.

Heather supported Sonja by showing up and saying congratulations. What else was she supposed to do? Pull Sonja aside and tell her she was wrong to doubt her, like Kristen did? That's enabling Sonja's delusions.

[breezy424]

What has Heather done to demonstrate that she doesn't like Beth?  I didn't get the comment she made about buying Lu a car as something nasty.  It seemed more like a joke.  What does 'not liking' Beth have to do with Heather saying that Kris was hurt she wasn't invited to the birthday party?  If anyone was the bitch in that scene was Beth and even Beth admitted she was harsh in her blog.  What does seeing half a conversation about Beth's custody relate to Heather not liking Beth.  What does offering meatballs albeit it she should have backed off have to do with Heather not liking Beth?  

 

I agree with Heather when she asked why is everyone afraid or whatever it is about Beth.  Was that at the Red Lion Inn?  After Do's birthday dinner, yeah, Heather doesn't like Beth.  And that was the only scene between them that Heather should have kept arm's length.

 

The thing about Beth is she has no problem being bitchy and harsh when 'she' wants to.  Her reaction to Heather telling her Kris was hurt.  Her comments about the women at Ro's birthday party.  Her TH regarding Sonja's new business.  Or how bout that guy at the night club when they had single girl's night out.  Beth can be Beth but boy, if you get her in one of her 'moods' watch out.  Or as Lu pointed out, when Beth gets like this (at Do's BD party) back off.   

[ryebread]

I think part of the problem with Heather 's confusion/frustration and continued tries at friendship was that they got along when Heather was on Bethenny's talk show. They seemed to enjoy and understand each other and I think Heather may be confused as to what changed. I am willing to bet that Bethenny does not understand what changed since then either. LOL

 

This is not true.  It was uncomfortable because Bethenny disagreed with Heather on a lot of things.  AND IIRC, she said that even though she had no idea if Carole had a ghost writer, people around her were saying it. Like, word on the street.  Ruh roh.  Them's fightin' words.

 

I think both of them came into this not liking each other. They both watched each other's seasons and came away with negative feelings. How could they not?   Heather probably watched Beth and saw the shrill, messy woman that Beth is and Beth watched Heather and saw the bossy, know-it-all that Heather is.  If most of us saw that they wouldn't get along, how could they not see it?  Bethenny doesn't like anybody.  Much.

 

And if Heather really said that in an interview about finishing Beth's sentence's and Beth heard that, then Heather kind of deserves whatever Bethenny is dishing.  Was that in a written interview, like ROL?  Or did those words actually come out of her mouth?

Edited June 8, 2015 by ryebread

[ryebread]

What has Heather done to demonstrate that she doesn't like Beth? 

 

I agree with Heather when she asked why is everyone afraid or whatever it is about Beth.  Was that at the Red Lion Inn?  After Do's birthday dinner, yeah, Heather doesn't like Beth.  And that was the only scene between them that Heather should have kept arm's length.

 

The thing about Beth is she has no problem being bitchy and harsh when 'she' wants to.  Her reaction to Heather telling her Kris was hurt.  Her comments about the women at Ro's birthday party.  Her TH regarding Sonja's new business.  Or how bout that guy at the night club when they had single girl's night out.  Beth can be Beth but boy, if you get her in one of her 'moods' watch out.  Or as Lu pointed out, when Beth gets like this (at Do's BD party) back off.   

 

What makes you think Heather ever liked Beth in the first place?  For everything you say Beth is - bitchy and harsh - I agree.  And she's been that way to Heather (not completely unwarranted but being bitchy is being bitchy).  What's to like?

 

Heather looks like she's smelling poo whenever Beth is in the room.  The disdain is seeping from between her tightly clenched teeth behind the smile.  I expect that she hates that Beth makes her feel nervous.  She doesn't like her.  Never did.  And I believe the feeling is mutual.  I figure Andy believes this, too.  He knew what he had before he shot the first episode. 

[WireWrap]

This is not true.  It was uncomfortable because Bethenny disagreed with Heather on a lot of things.  AND IIRC, she said that even though she had no idea if Carole had a ghost writer, people around her were saying it. Like, word on the street.  Ruh roh.  Them's fightin' words.

 

I think both of them came into this not liking each other. They both watched each other's seasons and came away with negative feelings. How could they not?   Heather probably watched Beth and saw the shrill, messy woman that Beth is and Beth watched Heather and saw the bossy, know-it-all that Heather is.  If most of us saw that they wouldn't get along, how could they not it?  Bethenny doesn't like anybody.  Much.

 

And if Heather really said that in an interview about finishing Beth's sentence's and Beth heard that, then Heather kind of deserves whatever Bethenny is dishing.  Was that in a written interview, like ROL?  Or did those words actually come out of her mouth?

I watched/saw when Heather was on Bethenny's talk show and IMO, they got along fine. There didn't seem to be any discord nor did either seem uncomfortable with each other. IMO, any "word on the street" comment was a joke because she was that 1 that recommended Aviva to Andy (something she was later apologetic for and claimed she really did not know her well), just like when she joked with Ramona about Aviva on her show as well.

 

It is possible that Bethenny did not like Heather before returning but I do not believe Heather disliked Bethenny but IMO, she, Heather, pushed to hard and that can be a turnoff for people. Bethenny on the other hand dismissed Heather to quickly. Both are at fault. JMO

[ryebread]

I watched/saw when Heather was on Bethenny's talk show and IMO, they got along fine.

 

LOL.  Always 2 ways to look at things.  I'll try to find the interview and post it in Heather's thread.  I dunno, maybe I'm not remembering correctly. But I got the distinct impression, even then, that Beth couldn't stand her.  And Heather won't stand for that.  She will chase you from room to room, or pull you up from your chair to drag you to another room to get to the bottom of why you don't like her.

[breezy424]

What makes you think Heather ever liked Beth in the first place?  For everything you say Beth is - bitchy and harsh - I agree.  And she's been that way to Heather (not completely unwarranted but being bitchy is being bitchy).  What's to like?

 

Heather looks like she's smelling poo whenever Beth is in the room.  The disdain is seeping from between her tightly clenched teeth behind the smile.  I expect that she hates that Beth makes her feel nervous.  She doesn't like her.  Never did.  And I believe the feeling is mutual.  I figure Andy believes this, too.  He knew what he had before he shot the first episode. 

I had no reason to believe that she disliked Beth.  So, I'm not assuming she did. 

 

Are the head shots of Heather showing disdain actually directed at Beth of something else?  As a matter of fact, I think at least two of those shots are the same and I wouldn't doubt there's more.  The first look is all over the place with inserted heat shots.  The last head shot of Heather looking like she's smelling poo was not Heather reacting to the moment.  It was earlier.  They have Heather sitting next to Lu, but at the actual time she was at the other end of the table.  The shot of Heather looking like she ate a bad oyster (according to Beth's tweet) when Beth arrived at Do's was not at the actual time either. After the commercial, they show Beth caming in and Johnathon is now there and they're both looking at Beth.  A 'story' is being told and, yes, Beth is annoyed with Heather, but editors are manipulating clips to make it seem that Heather is a bitch.  And that's one of the reasons, they have to call it a 'reality' show and not documentary. 

 

And, yeah, when Beth came over for a hug, Heather did look like she's done...  But I don't think that's been Heather's demeanor with Beth up till this point. 

[LotusFlower]

What makes you think Heather ever liked Beth in the first place?  For everything you say Beth is - bitchy and harsh - I agree.  And she's been that way to Heather (not completely unwarranted but being bitchy is being bitchy).  What's to like?

 

Heather looks like she's smelling poo whenever Beth is in the room.  The disdain is seeping from between her tightly clenched teeth behind the smile.  I expect that she hates that Beth makes her feel nervous.  She doesn't like her.  Never did.  And I believe the feeling is mutual.  I figure Andy believes this, too.  He knew what he had before he shot the first episode.

It feels like you're imposing your dislike of Bethenny onto Heather, and assuming that Heather didn't like her because of what you see - Bethenny's bitchiness. If you saw the First Look, she finally got the memo, but I don't think she disliked what she saw at first. As so many people say, they're a lot alike, so why is it so hard to believe that Heather initially thought they might get along?

[AnnA]

I think Heather is saying Skully as in skully hats/beanies

 

I think you're right.

 

When I looked for Skully caps, I found several different types but the only one that would make you look "tough" is this one.

 

 

I found them in black too.

 

Edited June 8, 2015 by AnnA

[ryebread]

I guess it starts with Bethenny telling Heather that word on the street is that Carole might've had a ghost writer. And she said this on a nationally televised talk show.  Even if that means only 37 people were watching - at the time, for Heather, there was no greater sin in HW land.

 

I don't watch the First Looks and I don't want to know what happens until Tuesday but if Heather somehow finally got a clue, all I can say is, it's about time.  She should've called me, I could've saved her a world o' grief.  I'll give Bethenny credit for knowing right away that Heather was annoying.

[LotusFlower]

I guess it starts with Bethenny telling Heather that word on the street is that Carole might've had a ghost writer. And she said this on a nationally televised talk show.  Even if that means only 37 people were watching - at the time, for Heather, there was no greater sin in HW land.

So Bethenny shows Heather she doesn't like her by dissing Carole? That's a diss on Carole, not Heather. And I have to say, Heather shut that right down. And defended Carole with so much loyalty and respect. Makes me wonder where Carole is hiding right now. This is where her blog would have come in mighty handily.

[ryebread]

When I looked for Skully caps, I found several different types but the only one that would make you look "tough" is this one.

 

This one might scare me a little. Is 'bitch' better? 

 

[jaync]

LOL, Avicious would be thrilled that she's getting mentioned.

 

I think there are plenty of examples on record already of Heather's objectionable behavior, but you are right, we don't all object to the same things.

I wasn't questioning Heather's behavior being objectionable or not, just the specific claim that she has cursed in a hostile and aggressive manner in almost every episode.

 

I'm just not sure how wearing a knit cap of any kind makes you a  tougher person.

Apparently, wearing one will turn a mami into a papi (not sure about the other way around, though).

[WireWrap]

I think you're right.

 

When I looked for Skully caps, I found several different types but the only one that would make you look "tough" is this one.

 

 

I found them in black too.

 

It looks like Sonja/LuAnn gave Heather their "pirate" dress code for wenches tips! LOL