One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[LadyNebula]

I hate Jess.  HATE him.  I also am not a fan of Dean.  I always thought Logan was the best of the bunch.  He wasn't a pushover like Dean, and he wasn't a complete asshole like Jess (just a partial one) - he was a happy medium.  Once he and Rory got together, he was decent boyfriend material.  He's the only boyfriend of Rory's I can tolerate.

 

I know Taylor is supposed to be there for comedic relief and to show how "quirky" Stars Hollow is, but I can't stand him.  He has no redeeming qualities.

 

I actually like Kirk.

[JayInChicago]

I sort of think Dean got what he had coming to him at the end of 'The Party's Over'.  

[mstaken]

Heh---it's funny, because I *completely* understand why many would hate Jess, and on paper he'd probably rank down there near TJ, Liz and Colin on my personal list of 'ugh-PLEASE-get-them-off-my-screen' characters. But somehow even when I didn't like him as an individual, I just love what he brought to the show and his chemistry with Luke and Rory. 

 

While I agree with the popular opinion that S7 had major problems and missteps, I actually think DR did a much better job with it than he's generally given credit for--- especially given the mess he inherited from ASP. I far prefer most of S7 to S6 and even (this part is REALLY unpopular!) large portions of S5. He brought back a warmth and likability to many of the characters and the overall show that IMO had been MIA for the last couple of seasons of AS-P's reign. And I can't help but think that I'd have preferred DR's writing and directing of Luke/Lorelai as a couple to AS-P's, as DR  seemed to write couples with a lot more warmth, affection and connection than AS-P did.  He even made Zach/Lane somewhat appealing for me, which is no easy feat! :) 

[Aloeonatable]

 

Heh---it's funny, because I *completely* understand why many would hate Jess, and on paper he'd probably rank down there near TJ, Liz and Colin on my personal list of 'ugh-PLEASE-get-them-off-my-screen' characters. But somehow even when I didn't like him as an individual, I just love what he brought to the show and his chemistry with Luke and Rory.

 

Definitely his chemistry with Luke and Rory. While I would avoid someone like Jess in real life, I liked the character very much. I give credit to Milo. 

[nolieblue]

I agree with you @mstaken about the softer tone in S7 at least in the second half. Most of S6 was downright ugly. It was like you could feel ASP's rage coming right through the characters starting.  Still, I hated the storyline in the first half of S7 so much that it's unwatchable for me. I know DR was stuck with cleaning up the mess left behind but I wish he'd cleaned it up another way. 

[mstaken]

I agree with you mstaken about the softer tone in S7 at least in the second half. Most of S6 was downright ugly.

 

Exactly! 'Ugly' is the perfect adjective for S6 (and, for me, much of the last third or so of S5), and I appreciate that by the end of S7 they at least attempted to bring back some of that life-affirming joy and charming warmth that makes the show so special to me. I actually know a woman who's a huge L/L fan and hence couldn't bear to watch the final season once she heard that Christopher and Lorelai get married, but she finally gave in recently and was pleasantly surprised by how much she enjoyed the second half of S7. And while Rory was still kind of vapid and Generic Young Female compared to the (again, IMO!) quietly sharp girl I so loved those first four seasons, I actually think S7 Rory is a huge improvement over S5 Rry and (especially!) S6 Rory. Same goes for Emily and Sookie, both of whom I enjoyed more in S7 than I had since S4. And Marty---oh, wait, he was an utter DISASTER in S7. Never mind ;) 

 

Don't get me wrong---DR did make some major errors, and I agree that the dialogue wasn't as sharp and clever with him at the helm. But I frequently read comments about how DR 'ruined' the show, and my UO is that ASP did a fine job of ruining it herself starting the last third of S5 and lasting all through S6 :) 

 

And as long as I'm expressing my unpopular (albeit somewhat tepid!) support for DR/S7, I should mention the UO that I don't hate Lucy and Olivia. I didn't *like* them, and I don't necessarily buy Rory as 'clicking' with them much more than I buy her as clicking with the frat boy Life and Death brigade types (whom she absolutely loathed even through Last Week Fights and then started hanging out with constantly by halfway through the next season, which...ugh, don't get me started!). But I just so appreciated the attempt---lame as it might have been---to give Rory SOME friends outside of the super spoiled party people she just sort of tagged along with while with Logan and the one or two friends she'd had since high school. I'd have preferred her new friends to be endearingly geeky types like Tana, who I actually think brought out a likable facet of Rory's personality, but by that point in the series I was willing to take what I could get :) And as grating as Olivia and Lucy were, they do ring true to a certain type of college student I've known. I'm fine with Rory having very few friends in general and think that's quite in character for her, but I just like that DR tried to give her SOMETHING unrelated to Logan/The DAR/Life and Death Brigade in that final season, even if said thing was a fairly unconvincing 'close' friendship with annoying poseurs ;) 

Edited August 2, 2014 by mstaken

[dustylil]

I agree that Rory should have broadened her social circle - and seeing less of Logan and his fatuous friends was always a plus in my view.  The only difficulty I had with the addition of Lucy and Olivia was that it brought us the "Marty the  stalker" plot line. Sigh.  Another male ensorcelled by Rory with  the resulting  assassination of his character. 

Why DR chose to destroy a likeable guy like Marty - and later Jackson (for quite different reasons) - continues to puzzle me.

Edited August 2, 2014 by dustylil

[lulu1960]

I agree, Dusty. I was thinking that exact thing. Were they brought on to be able to eventually bring Marty back so there would be friction between Rory and Logan and to show once again how the fellas fall under her spell?

[txhorns79]

Were they brought on to be able to eventually bring Marty back so there would be friction between Rory and Logan and to show once again how the fellas fall under her spell?

 

I agree they brought Marty back with a general idea of causing friction, but once he was there, they had no real clue what to do with him.  Instead, we had to deal with the entire ridiculous build up where Lucy only refers to him as "boyfriend," so we can get the big reveal. Then we had that whole weird thing of Marty pretending not to know Rory, and her going along with it, for whatever reason.  It was all very silly.       

[mstaken]

Yeah, the Marty stuff in S7 was utterly ridiculous. though I can't imagine that's an unpopular opinion! Actually, I think most of the Logan/Rory conflicts in S7 were really tiresome---random and 'so what-ish?' and never illuminating much of anything about either character. Still, DR made some other, non-Marty characters more likable for me than they'd been since the end end of S4, so I give him a little credit for that. And, oh, another S7 UO: I think I'd Rather be in Philadelphia is quite possibly the VERY worst episode of the entire season, especially when you realize it's a lame retread of S1's Forgiveness and Stuff. I don't think that episode gets enough credit for its utter awfulness :) 

Edited August 3, 2014 by mstaken

[XtremeOne1]

Does anything ASP purposely torpedo the show in season 6? I mean, the introducing of April, they had to know what a terrible idea that was. And then to end the season on Lorelei sleeping with Chris, knowing full well someone else would have to clean up that mess.

 

Did DR ever have a chance of making a decent show with the mess leftover from season 6?

[lulu1960]

I know that David Sutcliffe had already been slated to do the 12 (?) episodes even before DR took over. So I'm really curious what ASP would have done in season 7

[nolieblue]

I've always thought ASP deliberately screwed up the show wanting to either leave a mess behind or hoping TPTB would think she was the only one who could fix it.

[Taryn74]

or hoping TPTB would think she was the only one who could fix it.

 

 

Bingo!  That's pretty much what I think.

[dustylil]

The introduction of April in Season 6 -  in its execution -  was certainly  a terrible idea. And once again we were given to believe that effective birth control was virtually unknown in New England:) However, it didn't have to be so. The matter could have initially brought Lorelai and Luke closer together as they grappled with the situation, made Luke  less sanctimonious and more tolerant of the failings and foibles of others, or even had it that  Lorelai and Luke realized they didn't want the problems and complexities of shared parenting and were  better off as friends - just to name a few approaches that could have been taken.

[nolieblue]

You're right dusty,however I think ASP's only reason for introducing April was to keep L/L apart. I don't think she thought any further ahead than that.

[AlinaRay]

Speaking of ASP: did she ever admit to/acknowledge what her last two lines of the show would have been? I know it's been famously said she knew exactly where the show was going, but she never got the opportunity to finish it.

Speaking of ASP: did she ever admit to/acknowledge what her last two lines of the show would have been? I know it's been famously said she knew exactly where the show was going, but she never got the opportunity to finish it.

[jjj]

It was actually the "final four words" of the finale that ASP said she always had intended to use as the end of the series.  And no, she has never revealed what those words are.

 

But given that the producers of "How I Met Your Mother" said they always knew what the ending would be, and how terrible that ending was, I am not sure I want to know the GG "final four".  

[JayInChicago]

maybe it'd be fun to guess what those 4 words would be.  uh, humorous guesses.

except i've got nothing.   hey, that's 4 words.

[XtremeOne1]

Lorelei to Rory: "You were born male"

[jjj]

*Knew this would happen!*  (That's not a guess, just an observation!) 

[nolieblue]

It's five word but what about "Oy with the poodles already!"

[AlinaRay]

Oh oh! I got it!

 

"Stop the noodle scooz!"

 

Wait, is noodle scooz one word or two?

[txhorns79]

"I slept with Luke."  "So did I." 

[jjj]

"I'm actually your sister." 

[XtremeOne1]

Hey remember right before Rory and Lorelei reuinted, Rory got a job at the stanford eagle gazette. Remember how she never actually went to that job after? The job did a terrible job of follow up sometimes.

 

April's arrived in my rewatch. I hate Aprl with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. She makes Dawn and Connor tolerable.

[vanillamountain]

Speaking of ASP: did she ever admit to/acknowledge what her last two lines of the show would have been? I know it's been famously said she knew exactly where the show was going, but she never got the opportunity to finish it.

 

I always thought it was going to be something cheesy, like "I love you mom." (She said it was four words, if I remember correctly.)

 

When Bunheads came out, someone asked her what she thought about the ending, and she said that she would have had something "bigger and better" planned for Rory. Which made me glad that she left, because I'm sure she would have had Rory win the Nobel Prize or something ridiculous. David Rosenthal gets a lot of flack, some of it deserved, but I like that he made Rory work for things. I liked that she didn't get the New York Times fellowship - it felt more realistic (as opposed to that ridiculous plotline where she magically becomes the editor of the Yale Daily News.)

[XtremeOne1]

Yeah, Rory's ending was probably one of the best things about season 7. I can't help but think for ASP that bigger and better would involve some big romantic thing with Logan. To me, her not getting the fellowship but finding her own way and going out on her own was the perfect ending for someone who tended to rely on others a bit much and who's life under ASP was very "guy-centric".

 

I do wish ASP would let us know what would have went on eventually. A movie doesn't seem likely, unless she starts a kickstarter soon. But we've already passed Rory's ten year reunion to Chilton(which would have been the perfect movie(yes copying VM but it would have had made sense as to why Rory would come home and see everyone).

 

I guess we could do a 15 year Reunion(which would be 2018) but after that, is there really room for one? I mean I guess they could just have a "Christmas" movie as it's the perfect opportunity for a Gilmore dinner(which were always the best scene and which season 5/6  lacked)

 

Also, any moment ROry was broken up woth Logan, she was better as a character. I'm at the "I love coffee" episode and this Rory is awesome and headstrong, and funny...le sigh..Why couldn't we see more of this Rory?

 

Also Lorelei's wedding dress was terrible. Just saying! Plus, you know whenever a show, shows a bride in her gown before the wedding episode that wedding won't happen

Edited August 5, 2014 by XtremeOne1

[txhorns79]

Also, any moment Rory was broken up with Logan, she was better as a character. I'm at the "I love coffee" episode and this Rory is awesome and headstrong, and funny...le sigh..Why couldn't we see more of this Rory?

 

I tend to think as the show went on, the writers discovered that Rory wasn't that interesting as a character, so you end up with a lot of Rory's plotlines being about her relationships, rather than more focused on Rory. 

 

My unpopular opinion may be that I sometimes found Lorelai to be extremely tiresome.  It was like she couldn't just have a normal conversation with someone.  Instead, she would take five minutes of pop culture references and other quips to answer a question like: "Would you like a cup of coffee?"  

[Aloeonatable]

I don't agree that ASP would deliberately sabotage the show. I often think that most shows last longer then they should. 

 

 

Actually, I think most of the Logan/Rory conflicts in S7 were really tiresome---random and 'so what-ish?' and never illuminating much of anything about either character.

 

Amen to this. I watched their story lines with little interest because I knew they would solve whatever problem arose by the end of the episode. Boring

 

 

My unpopular opinion may be that I sometimes found Lorelai to be extremely tiresome.

 

You're not alone in this opinion, txhorns 79. Much like Jess, I don't know if I could spend much time with someone like Lorelai IRL.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Aloeonatable

[txhorns79]

You're not alone in this opinion, txhorns 79. Much like Jess, I don't know if I could spend much time with someone like Lorelai IRL.

 

Totally.  I remember in the episode where Rory is a debutante, at the beginning of the episode Lorelai and Rory come for FND and Emily and Richard are having a huge fight.  Rory becomes very uncomfortable with she and Lorelai eavesdropping, but Lorelai seems to almost take pleasure in hearing the whole thing and stays to make a quip to Richard and Emily when they realize that Lorelai and Rory heard everything.  It was just very distasteful and kind of cruel on Lorelai's part.  

[jjj]

Everything from the Huntzberger family dinner onward feels so downhill for me, so now that ABC Family has reached that point in the cycle, I might cycle back to the start  of the series when I need a fix.  There are some decent episodes in the post-boat-heist seasons, but I can't stand getting pulled into all those Gilmore poolhouse and April episodes.  

[AlinaRay]

I'll take one for the team and watch them. It's been so long since I've seen them. I barely remember 6 or 7 except for a few tidbits, and, of course, Bon Voyage, so I'm curious to see if they really are as bad as I remember.

[mstaken]

Heh---I refuse to believe that finding Lorelai annoying is unpopular ;) Even as someone who really likes the character overall and who's been known to be a bit of a Lorelai apologist, I sometimes find her incredibly grating, obnoxious and vain, and would probably only be able to handle her in very, very small doses in real life. (To be fair, though, that description applies to many GG characters, not just Lorelai!) Some of her self-described "bits", during which she just prattles on and on and on while totally enamored with the sound of her voice, are supposed to be hilarious but have me rolling my eyes and pressing the fast forward button.  

 

And this is maybe more of a weird pet peeve than a UO, but I can't stand Lorelai's cutesy, vain, annoyingly frequent references to how "pretty" she and Rory are. I mean, we know they're pretty. We can see that for ourselves, and other characters' comments and reactions to them make that abundantly clear. We don't need Lorelai herself smugly pointing out how gorgeous they are, even if it's often done in the guise of a joke. I can't adequately explain why, but it just bugs me! 

Edited August 7, 2014 by mstaken

[XtremeOne1]

Anyone remember when Lorelei got all mad at her parents at Thanksgiving dinner(in front of their friends) because Rory applied to Yale. HOW DARE SHE APPLY TO ONE OF THE TOP SCHOOLS IN THE COUNTRY!!?! It was pretty galling haha.

 

Also, I'm not sure if this is a nitpick but it always bothered me that Rory pretty much applied to the WASPiest schools in the country...You'd think a girl like Rory would apply to Columbia, given it's got an amazing journalism school and is in the freaking news capital of the US. I get for the show why it happened, but that she never applied seemed strange.

 

ALso my hate for Logan grows deeper with this rewatch. Him complaining about his "lack of choice"...Actually, if you'd cut yourself off from your famly and not live off them, maybe you'd have a choice, so stop whining in your martha's vineyard mansion.

 

Also, wow did they destroy Luke's character..

Edited August 7, 2014 by XtremeOne1

[mstaken]

Also, wow did they destroy Luke's character..

 

Just out of curiosity, at what point do you think it was destroyed?!  

 

It's funny, because while I didn't fully fall in love Lorelai until S2 (though she has some few wonderful S1 moments, she's too juvenile and cutesy and conceited for me in S1 overall), I actually think S1 was Luke's best season. He and Jess had some great interactions that gave S2 and S3 Luke a lot of amusing and even poignant moments, and I do love most of the L/L interactions in those seasons as well, but S1 is when Luke seems by far the sharpest, most compelling, bright and interesting to me. 

 

I agree that Logan doesn't improve with rewatch for me, though I blame both the writing and my own allergic reaction to the actor's smirk :) 

Edited August 7, 2014 by mstaken

[dustylil]

Xtreme One 1, journalism at Columbia  is a graduate program. Rory wouldn't have been eligible until she completed an undergraduate degree first. Not that she was studying it at Yale. The university does not offer a journalism major. It was simply her main extra-curricular activity.

[txhorns79]

Also, I'm not sure if this is a nitpick but it always bothered me that Rory pretty much applied to the WASPiest schools in the country...You'd think a girl like Rory would apply to Columbia, given it's got an amazing journalism school and is in the freaking news capital of the US. I get for the show why it happened, but that she never applied seemed strange.

 

I might be wrong, but I thought Rory did apply to Columbia.  I have a vague recollection that she got in there, but never seriously considered it as opposed to Harvard and Yale. 

[AlinaRay]

The other school she applied to was Princeton. Paris applied to and got into Columbia.

[XtremeOne1]

Just out of curiosity, at what point do you think it was destroyed?!  

 

It's funny, because while I didn't fully fall in love Lorelai until S2 (though she has some few wonderful S1 moments, she's too juvenile and cutesy and conceited for me in S1 overall), I actually think S1 was Luke's best season. He and Jess had some great interactions that gave S2 and S3 Luke a lot of amusing and even poignant moments, and I do love most of the L/L interactions in those seasons as well, but S1 is when Luke seems by far the sharpest, most compelling, bright and interesting to me. 

 

I agree that Logan doesn't improve with rewatch for me, though I blame both the writing and my own allergic reaction to the actor's smirk :) 

 

After April's introduction for sure. I mean, he just became so terrible and cold to Lorelei, and so inconsiderate of her feelings.

 

It's weird though, I Just saw the episode with the pretentious jouranlism panel and Columbia wasn't a part of that either. Columbia is still a popular school for journalist due to it being in New York.

 

Also Abigial Spencer is in Gilmore GIrls. She's one of the bridesmaids, who as it turns out where the best of the rich girls they had on the show. It's funny because they were supposedly to be terrible, but they were better than the girls she hung out with when with COln and Flynn(the girls who didn't eat and were amazed that Rory did).

[JAYJAY1979]

My UO is that I thought Lorelai, while funny with her wisecracks, was too harsh with both of her parents.  I usually sided with her parents over Lorelai most of the time.. and I could see that in many ways.. Lorelai was still a 16 year old trapped in a thirty something year woman's body.

[JayInChicago]

I noticed today, with Luke and the Twickham house...why does he say "kids...with...Lorelai...or somebody" when Taylor asks why he actually wants the house?  ????

 

My UO is that I don't fucking understand that one bit. I don't think I ever caught that previously.

also lol @ miss patty giving those underage girls all that booze

Edited August 9, 2014 by JayInChicago

[jjj]

I always took that as Luke being a little coy with Taylor -- after all, he had not even asked Lorelai to marry him (nor she him!).  Why tell Taylor you are planning to have children with Lorelai before telling Lorelai?  That's what I understand "or somebody" to mean.

 

Indeed, there seemed to be no lower age cutoff for the Founder's Day Punch! 

 

Do we ever see a police officer in Stars Hollow?  I can't remember ever seeing one. 

[lulu1960]

There's the main cop Coop who is a friend of Luke's. He's the one that brought Jess in. And we also saw the lady cop twice. Once in The Ins and Outs of Inn with the chalk outline that Jess drew and again at the protest in Take the Deviled Eggs. Noodlescooze!

[jjj]

Thank you!  Not enough for a calendar, but enough to show me the police were there! 

[dustylil]

Much as I thought Luke and Lorelai should have been together until early Season 6, I had problems with Luke's character as far back as the fourth season. For instance, I thought he treated Nicole badly. If he seriously didn't like being married to her, why on earth did he agree to continue on with their relationship rather than go through with the divorce? He was after all carrying around that horoscope in his wallet.

And then there was the foreshadowing of what was to transpire later on - keeping secrets (the $30 K loan to Lorelai) and maintaining  his physical and emotional distance (retaining his apartment in Stars Hollow, not introducing Nicole to family members). Happily for Luke there was the Sockman so he had no need to examine his own conduct and feelings  but certainly he should have.

Ironically, the one person who may have seen the parallels was Lorelai.

[MaiSoCalled]

Here are two of my unpopular opinions. 

 

I completely understand why Rory slept with Dean. I get that an 18/19 year old would see her ex-boyfriend and just think "he was mine first" and assume she wasn't doing anything that wrong. When she's well into her twenties, I think Rory will look back and be ashamed, but at the time, I think it makes complete sense for the character. I don't think as a viewer we're supposed to side with Rory, if we were I don't think Lorelai would have reacted as she did. Furthermore, I think the final leg of the Rory/Dean arc (seasons 4 & 5) worked very well. I can't see a version of post high school Rory that would be compatible with any version of post high school Dean, and I appreciate that the show buried that ship and threw Rory off her pedestal. 

 

I think April was a good addition to the show and without her I don't think Luke and Lorelai could have lasted long term. With April in his life, Luke could understand why it was so important for Lorelai to have a relationship with Christopher. Had the show continued into season 8, I think Luke and Lorelai would have finally had a healthy relationship. (Note - I think the way the April plot was handled was horrendous, but I really liked April herself and seeing Luke make a connection with his long lost daughter. I would have prefered a situation where Anna thought another man was the father and never got tested, rather than just not telling Luke, but I'm sure that's not an unpopular opinion). 

[Taryn74]

With April in his life, Luke could understand why it was so important for Lorelai to have a relationship with Christopher.

 

 

That's a really good point!  I like that line of thinking!

[txhorns79]

With April in his life, Luke could understand why it was so important for Lorelai to have a relationship with Christopher.

 

Heck, I would think seeing Anna's behavior would make Luke come to appreciate Christopher, if only for the fact that Christopher wasn't a psycho-hose beast like Anna.  I honestly cannot imagine for one minute what would possess the writers to give her such a lame reason for hiding Luke's daughter from him for years. 

[nolieblue]

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don't see why Lorelai needed to have a relationship with Christopher at all once Rory was 18 and at college. There was really no need for Lorelai to see him or consult him on anything - it's not like they were co-parenting. They didn't need to be enemies, but why would Lorelai spend any time at all with Christopher outside of events that centered around Rory (those that Christopher managed to attend that is).