One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[readster]

I don't quite understand this. Liz kept April a secret?

 

 Misworded that. Liz telling Luke that him keeping April a secret instead of just asking Lorelai for help. Not flat out saying: "Hey, I have an almost 13 year old daughter I never knew existed." It should have been more: "I... have a problem and I don't know what to do." She said it best: "Who keeps something like that a secret?" As in Luke getting the baby bomb on him and just being hush hush. Because he basically told Jess just before he showed up and Jess handled it pretty well even though he was shocked by it too. Not with how April's mother never told Luke. Which was also pretty stupid too. It was also a shout out by the new showrunners saying: "Yeah, it was a stupid idea for a story and now we have to plow through this mess." 

[amensisterfriend]

This came up in another thread but, lord help me, I actually prefer the widely despised S7 to S5 overall. In fact, I really like S7 in general despite a few glaring missteps (Marty as stalker, Lane as insta-pregnant housewife, everything having to do with Anna and April, etc.!) Rory and the Lorelai/Rory relationship matter a lot to me (much more than the show's romantic relationships!), and I find Rory so much more likable in S7 than she had been since early-mid S4. Emily, Sookie, Logan, Zach, and probably other characters I'm blanking out on are far more enjoyable (read: less maddening!) for me in S7 than in S5-S6. I'm in that tiny minority who does see a lot of chemistry and connection between Lorelai and Christopher, so I enjoy many of those scenes. (Side note: If Luke/Lorelai was the endgame all along, and I fully believe they were, I kind of wish they'd cast someone else as Christopher---someone who LG was less happy and smiley and lit up around, because at various points throughout the series it made it REALLY hard for me to buy into the fact that she was genuinely happier with Luke even though I know we were supposed to!)  

S7 obviously has its problems, but it just has a certain GG-esque warmth to me that was sadly missing from most of S5 and S6...in my UO, that is :) 

[amensisterfriend]

ETA: The "if you can't immediately get engaged to me, we're totally over!" ending to the Logan/Rory relationship was just so out of character and annoying to me. It's not that I minded Rory ending the series single---in fact, that might have been my preference---but it just didn't make sense for the characters or what we had seen of their relationship that season, at least for me. Why couldn't they still remain in a relationship without getting engaged?! For all of GG's supposedly progressive ideas, the show had some fairly old-fashioned ideas about just how early in life women should/do still get married and have kids :) 

[txhorns79]

Why couldn't they still remain in a relationship without getting engaged?! For all of GG's supposedly progressive ideas, the show had some fairly old-fashioned ideas about just how early in life women should/do still get married and have kids :)

 

I didn't see that as old fashioned, so much as Logan wanted something Rory couldn't give.  He appeared to be in a big transition in his life, and wanted his relationship with Rory settled.  She wasn't ready for that, and Logan did not want to continue with what they had, hence the ultimatum.  I think Rory made the right decision, but I didn't think Logan's demands were completely wrong given what he wanted. 

[amensisterfriend]

It's funny how certain UOs here subconsciously influence my perceptions of the show! Case in point: while recently watching  a random bunch of "post-plaid" episodes (4.1-7.22) for the first time in a while, I'm liking Rory/Logan more (especially in the final season), finding Lorelai more tiresome than I usually do (and I'm generally a big Lorelai fan/semi-apologist despite knowing I'd want to throttle her every time she started babbling in 'real life'!), and, weirdest of all for me, seem to have internalized the UO expressed here that S4 is kind of flat, dull, meandering, etc., at least as compared to the series' best. And I'll never quite forgive this season for giving us Liz and TJ! Someone remind me of why I used to really like S4. Oh, yeah...I think part of it is that I have the very UO of thinking Digger is probably the show's only 'love interest' who I'd really click with in real life :)   

Edited January 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I think the Palladino's writing really suffered because of their sitcom roots. Once a character or situation is established thats just the way it is for the remainder and the charateristics will just become broadened and cartoony. Everything eventually re-sets to status quo, Once a character is established as "Good" like Rory that is what they are regardless of what they do throughout the series. The show might have been better with someone else overseeing as show-runner and  Amy as just a head writer because her scripts could be excellent but she had no feel for story-arcs. 

 

And I agree with with the people who said she wasn't very good writing romantic relationships. A viewer has to overlook so much to enjoy an any overall relationship on this show and its pretty lazy that they all suffered from the same problem of lack of communication. 

 

This is such a weird show for me. If I watch one episode I'm like man I love this show, but if I push it to two or more the flaws really start irritating me quick. i honestly think I love the idea of what could be for the characters more than what I actually saw on screen as far as story goes. 

[amensisterfriend]

And I agree with with the people who said she wasn't very good writing romantic relationships. A viewer has to overlook so much to enjoy an any overall relationship on this show and its pretty lazy that they all suffered from the same problem of lack of communication.

This is such a weird show for me. If I watch one episode I'm like man I love this show, but if I push it to two or more the flaws really start irritating me quick. i honestly think I love the idea of what could be for the characters more than what I actually saw on screen as far as story goes.

 

I wonder if that's one reason why fanfic (and we have some people here who do a PHENOMENAL job writing it!) is still so popular despite the show having been off the air for such a long time now: the characters and their romantic relationships sparked so much interest and potential, but the onscreen execution was so lacking that we still feel the need to write those relationships better than they were presented in reality. I can honestly say that I prefer Luke and Lorelai as a couple in 95% of fanfics I've read than in their onscreen appearances. 

 

A related UO is that I think DR actually did a BETTER job than the still widely revered AS-P in at least a few respects. He made many of the characters a little softer and more likable again, at least for me (the townies, Emily, Logan, Zach, Sookie, Jackson, etc) and he wrote romance in a way that involved more warmth, connection, affection and...well, romance :) To make this even more unpopular: If he had been the one to write Luke and Lorelai as a romantic couple throughout S5 and S6 instead of AS-P, I think I would have liked them more than I did. I still see very little romantic chemistry between the didn't-like-each-other-and-it-shows actors, but I really think the writing and directing would have made L/L feel like a happier and more connected couple for me than AS-P did. It would have been fun (for me!) to see what he would have done with them. 

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I think the Palladino's writing really suffered because of their sitcom roots. Once a character or situation is established thats just the way it is for the remainder and the charateristics will just become broadened and cartoony. Everything eventually re-sets to status quo, Once a character is established as "Good" like Rory that is what they are regardless of what they do throughout the series. The show might have been better with someone else overseeing as show-runner and  Amy as just a head writer because her scripts could be excellent but she had no feel for story-arcs. 

 

Very good point. For a show that was supposed to be "smart" and witty, they did go for the easy way out in many of the storylines. The "Rory is always right and perfect" thread that ran through the entire show irritated me to no end. I also didn't like how they dumbed down Dean to (imo) boost up Jess as a boyfriend for Rory. Though I can't remember any other examples, I think it happened more then once in the show (tearing a character down to build another up). It seemed sometimes that they couldn't have two opposite characters be on an even playing field, one had to be the bad guy. Especially if they were on the other side of either Gilmore Gal.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I wonder if that's one reason why fanfic (and we have some people here who do a PHENOMENAL job writing it!) is still so popular despite the show having been off the air for such a long time now: the characters and their romantic relationships sparked so much interest and potential, but the onscreen execution was so lacking that we still feel the need to write those relationships better than they were presented in reality. I can honestly say that I prefer Luke and Lorelai as a couple in 95% of fanfics I've read than in their onscreen appearances. 

 

A related UO is that I think DR actually did a BETTER job than the still widely revered AS-P in at least a few respects. He made many of the characters a little softer and more likable again, at least for me (the townies, Emily, Logan, Zach, Sookie, Jackson, etc) and he wrote romance in a way that involved more warmth, connection, affection and...well, romance :) To make this even more unpopular: If he had been the one to write Luke and Lorelai as a romantic couple throughout S5 and S6 instead of AS-P, I think I would have liked them more than I did. I still see very little romantic chemistry between the didn't-like-each-other-and-it-shows actors, but I really think the writing and directing would have made L/L feel like a happier and more connected couple for me than AS-P did. It would have been fun (for me!) to see what he would have done with them. 

 

I definitely agree about Luke and Lorelai and basically every couple being vastly more appealing in fanfic form. Almost every couple on the show held some appeal, and its frustrating that often out of the blue problems would surface for couples on the show as opposed to real obvious obstacles that just putting the characters in a relationship would have them face.

 

And I agree about DR, he might not have been arguably as witty or clever with dialogue as Amy but I consider it a wash because she seemed deeply disinterested in writing romantic relationships in any capacity. She is great at build up but lacks follow-through. 

 

Very good point. For a show that was supposed to be "smart" and witty, they did go for the easy way out in many of the storylines. The "Rory is always right and perfect" thread that ran through the entire show irritated me to no end. I also didn't like how they dumbed down Dean to (imo) boost up Jess as a boyfriend for Rory. Though I can't remember any other examples, I think it happened more then once in the show (tearing a character down to build another up). It seemed sometimes that they couldn't have two opposite characters be on an even playing field, one had to be the bad guy. Especially if they were on the other side of either Gilmore Gal.

 

It really did feel like you could tell the minute she lost interest in a character or story. She would just drop it or cut it off premature and you can't do that with a serialized show. It felt like alot of things didn't matter the second she was done with a particular plot. Rory droppped out ZOMG! she's feuding with Lorelai *handwave* it's over, she's back, doesn't matter anymore. Luke got married! *handwave* doesn't matter and she was a cheatingbiznitch anyway! 

[Athena]

This is such a weird show for me. If I watch one episode I'm like man I love this show, but if I push it to two or more the flaws really start irritating me quick. i honestly think I love the idea of what could be for the characters more than what I actually saw on screen as far as story goes. 

 

This is a weird show for me too. I liked the atmosphere and I enjoyed some of the characters, but I was never crazy about the loquacious or wacky nature. I also have mixed views about the romantic relationships. I think they had some good guest stars and I enjoyed the Gilmore family dynamic. A couple of my friends who love the show (don't even know each other and from different generations) both relate to the family dynamic e.g. a friend of mine is the Rory, and she sees a loving yet conflicting relationship between Lorelai and Emily. Maybe this is the wrong thread to say that the show did quite well in the mother-daughter relationships and its uniqueness and complications in particular with Lorelai and Emily.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

This is a weird show for me too. I liked the atmosphere and I enjoyed some of the characters, but I was never crazy about the loquacious or wacky nature. I also have mixed views about the romantic relationships. I think they had some good guest stars and I enjoyed the Gilmore family dynamic. A couple of my friends who love the show (don't even know each other and from different generations) both relate to the family dynamic e.g. a friend of mine is the Rory, and she sees a loving yet conflicting relationship between Lorelai and Emily. Maybe this is the wrong thread to say that the show did quite well in the mother-daughter relationships and its uniqueness and complications in particular with Lorelai and Emily.

 

Honestly, if they had cut out 1/2 to even 3/4 of the stars hollow stuff I would be quite happy. I understand the reason it was there and the usefulness of the wackiness to cut tension at times, but they spent way too much time on throw away scenes and then would skim or not even address main character issues. I get that they prided themselves on doing things different but sometimes you just have to let characters talk and not just banter. That is one thing that DR did right in season 7 he didn't get *quite as cute when trying to deal with real issues. People were allowed to have meaningful discussions.

 

* I say quite because that scene in 7.21 where Luke and Lorelai still can't talk about what went wrong in their relationship without veiling it in the Rory/Logan proposal discussion is just ridiculous.

[BC Mama]

Very good point. For a show that was supposed to be "smart" and witty, they did go for the easy way out in many of the storylines. The "Rory is always right and perfect" thread that ran through the entire show irritated me to no end. I also didn't like how they dumbed down Dean to (imo) boost up Jess as a boyfriend for Rory. Though I can't remember any other examples, I think it happened more then once in the show (tearing a character down to build another up). It seemed sometimes that they couldn't have two opposite characters be on an even playing field, one had to be the bad guy. Especially if they were on the other side of either Gilmore Gal.

I think it would have been a far more interesting rivalry if the similarities between Jess and Dean. Both came to Stars Hollow from a big city (New York/Chicago), both are well read (at least Dean appeared to be in season one when he was indulging Rory in reading Tolstoy and Austen, and recommending Hunter Thompson), both were not "joiners" (although Dean apparently became one when he joined the Minutemen hockey team, etc.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Rory's character will always be a source of disappointment to me.  She's always been vaguely smart and supposedly good at writing but they did nothing really to explore and develop her beyond that. Yes, they gave her hobbies and interests but they did nothing to really examine her as a person or what her dreams and goals would mean to the character, and how the character as she is, would need to evolve to pursue them. In fact they kept her almost oblivious at times to very obvious steps that needed to be taken along the way.Not to mention at times during the series they would nudge her out of a comfort zone but then backpedal. I think it would have been interesting to see her come to understand herself more and the skills she needed to develop to get where she wanted in life, or if not that then come to understand she doesn't in fact have what it takes, to have her let go of her childhood dream and set off on a new path. She could have had a very intersting journey either way instead of the bland CW-y relationship path they wrote for her. Keep the Dean's, and the Jess's, and the Logan's away if they couldn't come up with a way to balance it. Her friendship with Paris was her greatest non-familial relationship anyway. For all the banging on the GIRLPOWER! drum they did very little for Rory until the very end and by then it was too late and felt wholy unearned.

[Athena]

Rory's character will always be a source of disappointment to me.  She's always been vaguely smart and supposedly good at writing but they did nothing really to explore and develop her beyond that. Yes, they gave her hobbies and interests but they did nothing to really examine her as a person or what her dreams and goals would mean to the character, and how the character as she is, would need to evolve to pursue them. In fact they kept her almost oblivious at times to very obvious steps that needed to be taken along the way.Not to mention at times during the series they would nudge her out of a comfort zone but then backpedal.

 

On paper, teen Rory and I would have gotten along great: she is well read, vaguely smart, has a solid friendship with Lane, a good boy next door bf, and she had hobbies. However, I just never warmed to Rory. When she went to Yale, I started to dislike her especially after the Boat incident. Here was a girl who had everything handed to her and who had not grown up with the privileges at an early age. She started to become more entitled.

 

Alexis Bledel did not help. I didn't think she was a particularly good actress. I did see her chemistry with her three main love interests (especially Jess but again, I can credit the RL relationship for that) and with the Gilmores (credit to those three actors). Other than that, I think she was the weak link in the main cast. I think a stronger actress would have played Rory with a bit more depth.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

On paper, teen Rory and I would have gotten along great: she is well read, vaguely smart, has a solid friendship with Lane, a good boy next door bf, and she had hobbies. However, I just never warmed to Rory. When she went to Yale, I started to dislike her especially after the Boat incident. Here was a girl who had everything handed to her and who had not grown up with the privileges at an early age. She started to become more entitled.

 

Alexis Bledel did not help. I didn't think she was a particularly good actress. I did see her chemistry with her three main love interests (especially Jess but again, I can credit the RL relationship for that) and with the Gilmores (credit to those three actors). Other than that, I think she was the weak link in the main cast. I think a stronger actress would have played Rory with a bit more depth.

 

You are right the idea of the character is better than what showed up on screen. The boat thing itself didn't bother me because I honestly think it made sense for the character to spiral considering she had no real sense of the world and the disappointments she could face given the happy Lorelai created "EverythingRoryEverDoesIsAwesome" bubble she lived in that was then cultivated by Stars Hollow and her Grandparents and honestly I think the selfish entitled behavior has always lurked and popped out at various times just not in such a ritzy display as during the Rory in the DAR phase. Had they had Rory just simply examine her life and choices and decide that Mitchum made some valid points and work on what she needed to in order to better herself as a journalist, or even see that maybe she should pursue a different but equally worthwhile endeavor. Either would have been great. Instead she meandered for a while until the writers were bored with the novelty of the Lorelai/Rory feud.

 

I agree that Alexis did nothing to add depth which is devastating to a character that is so introverted and honestly underwritten for. 

[Athena]

Had they had Rory just simply examine her life and choices and decide that Mitchum made some valid points and work on what she needed to in order to better herself as a journalist, or even see that maybe she should pursue a different but equally worthwhile endeavor. Either would have been great. Instead she meandered for a while until the writers were bored with the novelty of the Lorelai/Rory feud.

 

That is why I disliked Rory post-boat incident. It wasn't the spiraling that bothered me so much as the complete lack of introspection and the fact she never learned from it. She moved in to a newly decorated for her pool house at her grandparents' place. The feud with Lorelai ended when Rory went back to Yale. Paris was written like a crazy person so that Rory would become Yale editor less than a year after her boat incident. I think that while Mitchum was tactless, he had a point. Rory lacked a drive to be the kind of political journalist she aspired to be. Rory was handed a lot on a platter and had many unearned moments through the series. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Mitchum absolutely had a point about Rory and its maddening because it means the writers themselves saw that Rory lacked certain things she would need to achieve this particular dream and yet did nothing to address it either way. 

[txhorns79]

Paris was written like a crazy person so that Rory would become Yale editor less than a year after her boat incident.

 

I hated this most of all.  Paris was written as though she was seriously mentally ill, and then she was relatively normal again after Rory took over, like she hadn't created a bunker of insanity to hide out in, while in the newsroom.  It was never clear to me what the writers were thinking with Paris at that point in time.  It seemed like there would have been more realistic alternatives if the goal was to make Rory the editor of the paper.   

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I hated this most of all.  Paris was written as though she was seriously mentally ill, and then she was relatively normal again after Rory took over, like she hadn't created a bunker of insanity to hide out in, while in the newsroom.  It was never clear to me what the writers were thinking with Paris at that point in time.  It seemed like there would have been more realistic alternatives if the goal was to make Rory the editor of the paper.   

 

All they had to do was give her a nice part-time job or internship that looked good on her resume that took up so much of her time that she couldn't do both. The writers just fell in love with writing crazy Paris for some reason, and it's sad because a smart, driven, no nonsense woman is way more interesting than a wacky character in a show bloated with wacky characters.

[solotrek]

I hated this most of all.  Paris was written as though she was seriously mentally ill, and then she was relatively normal again after Rory took over, like she hadn't created a bunker of insanity to hide out in, while in the newsroom.  It was never clear to me what the writers were thinking with Paris at that point in time.  It seemed like there would have been more realistic alternatives if the goal was to make Rory the editor of the paper.   

Exactly. I don't know how they could do something like that with her character and then have us seriously be happy that she chose med school. I've met some seriously deranged people in med school, but if crazy Paris reared her head, holy hell. I was thinking that Liza Weil did a fantastic job with the character, because she kept Paris more grounded than she came off on paper.

 

I agree that Alexis did nothing to add depth which is devastating to a character that is so introverted and honestly underwritten for.

 

I guess my UO is that I thought Alexis worked really well for the part since she's so introverted as well in real life.

Edited January 4, 2015 by maculae

[Tangerine]

Mitchum absolutely had a point about Rory and its maddening because it means the writers themselves saw that Rory lacked certain things she would need to achieve this particular dream and yet did nothing to address it either way. 

 

Mitchum DID have a point, and I don't think he was particularly cruel when delivering the news either. He was pretty courteous and professional and it bothered me that everybody was going on about how evil Mitchum was for what he said. And Rory was acting more and more entitled and privileged, not like the hardworking and intelligent person she's supposed to be. Her reasoning for not speaking up in the meeting was that she didn't know if she was supposed to. Are interns absolutely just supposed to sit there silently if they're asked to attend a meeting? And why was her automatic response to shut down? Why not stay on as an intern and tell Mitchum that she was going to prove him wrong? There was just so many things wrong with how that storyline played out.

 

I remember back in an earlier episode when Rory got that 'D' on the economics paper and the professor suggested that she drop the class. He told her not to feel bad about it since it happened to a lot of students and her response was a sarcastic "Glad to be fitting in." I wanted to shake her.

 

I guess my UO is that I thought Alexis worked really well for the part since she's so introverted as well in real life.

 

I thought she was great in the earlier seasons as an awkward, intelligent and witty teenager but the college storylines demanded a little bit more and I don't think she added as much to the character.

 

I just watched the episode with Lane's weddings and I realized that I might be in the minority who really loved Christopher. Despite his faults and him being weak, I really liked his very easy, natural chemistry with Lorelai. They seem really comfortable with each other and I totally buy they've known each other for a long time and that he loves the girls. At this point, it was a welcome relief from all of the angst and drama that was surrounding Luke and Lorelai.

[dustylil]

Not only did Mitchum have a point about his expectations and Rory's work as an intern, he handled his discussion with her just the way he should have. He spoke to her privately, made his views very clear and kept the meeting short. That Rory had become unaccustomed to receiving or accepting criticism, did not make him a villain - whatever the assorted Gilmores and many viewers may have thought.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Mitchum DID have a point, and I don't think he was particularly cruel when delivering the news either. He was pretty courteous and professional and it bothered me that everybody was going on about how evil Mitchum was for what he said. And Rory was acting more and more entitled and privileged, not like the hardworking and intelligent person she's supposed to be. Her reasoning for not speaking up in the meeting was that she didn't know if she was supposed to. Are interns absolutely just supposed to sit there silently if they're asked to attend a meeting? And why was her automatic response to shut down? Why not stay on as an intern and tell Mitchum that she was going to prove him wrong? There was just so many things wrong with how that storyline played out.

 

I remember back in an earlier episode when Rory got that 'D' on the economics paper and the professor suggested that she drop the class. He told her not to feel bad about it since it happened to a lot of students and her response was a sarcastic "Glad to be fitting in." I wanted to shake her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it felt like as she began experiencing more discomfort and less control in her environment the worse she reacted to failure and just general criticism And it just kept getting worse because you can't grow if you see nothing wrong and are re-enforced in your behavior. When she's told by everyone Mitchum's just a big meanie. How exactly does she grow from that. The school itself is the only entity in Rory's life that tried to handle the situation remotely correctly in sending her to a therapist.

[cheezwhiz346]

Hey there, first post on these forums so I'm apologizing in advance for any lapses in formatting, etc. I am following along with the GG rewatch podcast 'Return to Stars Hollow,' and they will cover "P.S. I Lo..." from near the end of the first season next, so I rewatched that ep for the first time in quite a while today, and might have some UOs:

 

I loathe Rory's behavior in this ep. I know that she's young, but she was very rude to both Lane and Lorelai and just angelic to her grandparents (a pattern that will be repeated in the future), while neglecting to tell anyone where she was going, and that was enough to tick me off, but then I had to watch Lorelai wax on about how 'Rory's such a good kid' and 'she's so nice to everyone' at basically the same time when Rory's being a total jerk to those closest to her, and that just compounded it. These personality traits of Rory's are ones that crop up later in the series (how she reacts to pain/rejection/any general unpleasantness) and they always made sense to me because I saw them in early episodes like this, and she never got any flak for acting this way, so I can see why she never really grew out of it. But that doesn't mean I enjoy watching it. 

 

Then I had to watch the whole 'Lorelai dressing Luke' plot line which I didn't find annoying at all when I first watched it. This time, though, I thought Lorelai was completely out of line with using his credit card like that and then forcing him to put on the clothes that he didn't even want. I totally thought it was charming the first time I watched it and now I just cannot understand how she thought that was okay. Not sure if that's a UO. 

 

[The two things that pissed me off in this episode about Lorelai & Rory's behavior reminded me of a spot on article about them that came out a little while ago, "Who's Worse, Lorelai or Rory?" that really captured what has consistently annoyed me about these characters.]

[txhorns79]

I just watched the episode with Lane's weddings and I realized that I might be in the minority who really loved Christopher. Despite his faults and him being weak, I really liked his very easy, natural chemistry with Lorelai. They seem really comfortable with each other and I totally buy they've known each other for a long time and that he loves the girls.

 

It was definitely excellent casting.  Both actors play well off each other, and were able to suggest the extent of Lorelai and Christopher's relationship without it feeling forced. 

 

 

All they had to do was give her a nice part-time job or internship that looked good on her resume that took up so much of her time that she couldn't do both.

 

Yeah, I disliked that it was written that Paris had to spectacularly fail at her job in order for Rory to succeed. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Hey there, first post on these forums so I'm apologizing in advance for any lapses in formatting, etc. I am following along with the GG rewatch podcast 'Return to Stars Hollow,' and they will cover "P.S. I Lo..." from near the end of the first season next, so I rewatched that ep for the first time in quite a while today, and might have some UOs:

 

I loathe Rory's behavior in this ep. I know that she's young, but she was very rude to both Lane and Lorelai and just angelic to her grandparents (a pattern that will be repeated in the future), while neglecting to tell anyone where she was going, and that was enough to tick me off, but then I had to watch Lorelai wax on about how 'Rory's such a good kid' and 'she's so nice to everyone' at basically the same time when Rory's being a total jerk to those closest to her, and that just compounded it. These personality traits of Rory's are ones that crop up later in the series (how she reacts to pain/rejection/any general unpleasantness) and they always made sense to me because I saw them in early episodes like this, and she never got any flak for acting this way, so I can see why she never really grew out of it. But that doesn't mean I enjoy watching it. 

 

Then I had to watch the whole 'Lorelai dressing Luke' plot line which I didn't find annoying at all when I first watched it. This time, though, I thought Lorelai was completely out of line with using his credit card like that and then forcing him to put on the clothes that he didn't even want. I totally thought it was charming the first time I watched it and now I just cannot understand how she thought that was okay. Not sure if that's a UO. 

 

[The two things that pissed me off in this episode about Lorelai & Rory's behavior reminded me of a spot on article about them that came out a little while ago, "Who's Worse, Lorelai or Rory?" that really captured what has consistently annoyed me about these characters.]

 

Welcome! Its my first day here too and its been alot of fun.This board is really cool. I didn't know I had so many opinions about a show that has long been over.

The overall tone-deafness of the writers regarding Rory does seem prevalent through the series. I wonder if some of the intent behind the need to re-enforce that she was so wonderful was so the audience wouldn't question how wise Lorelai's overall decision to raise her the way she did. If Rory is perfect and their relationship is amazing then the premise is fun and whimsical.

 

As I've gotten older Lorelai's behavior has gotten alot less fun and cute to me. 

[readster]

Hey there, first post on these forums so I'm apologizing in advance for any lapses in formatting, etc. I am following along with the GG rewatch podcast 'Return to Stars Hollow,' and they will cover "P.S. I Lo..." from near the end of the first season next, so I rewatched that ep for the first time in quite a while today, and might have some UOs:

 

I loathe Rory's behavior in this ep. I know that she's young, but she was very rude to both Lane and Lorelai and just angelic to her grandparents (a pattern that will be repeated in the future), while neglecting to tell anyone where she was going, and that was enough to tick me off, but then I had to watch Lorelai wax on about how 'Rory's such a good kid' and 'she's so nice to everyone' at basically the same time when Rory's being a total jerk to those closest to her, and that just compounded it. These personality traits of Rory's are ones that crop up later in the series (how she reacts to pain/rejection/any general unpleasantness) and they always made sense to me because I saw them in early episodes like this, and she never got any flak for acting this way, so I can see why she never really grew out of it. But that doesn't mean I enjoy watching it. 

 

Then I had to watch the whole 'Lorelai dressing Luke' plot line which I didn't find annoying at all when I first watched it. This time, though, I thought Lorelai was completely out of line with using his credit card like that and then forcing him to put on the clothes that he didn't even want. I totally thought it was charming the first time I watched it and now I just cannot understand how she thought that was okay. Not sure if that's a UO. 

 

[The two things that pissed me off in this episode about Lorelai & Rory's behavior reminded me of a spot on article about them that came out a little while ago, "Who's Worse, Lorelai or Rory?" that really captured what has consistently annoyed me about these characters.]

 

Yeah, it felt like as she began experiencing more discomfort and less control in her environment the worse she reacted to failure and just general criticism And it just kept getting worse because you can't grow if you see nothing wrong and are re-enforced in your behavior. When she's told by everyone Mitchum's just a big meanie. How exactly does she grow from that. The school itself is the only entity in Rory's life that tried to handle the situation remotely correctly in sending her to a therapist.

 

 That's why everything went out the door and why I thought everything was horribly written and acted with all of this. I never got mad at how Mitchum told Rory she didn't have it. He actually did it very professionally it was just the build up was that the Hutzburger family had it out for Rory and then add in this horrible build up with the Economics class where the professor told her, it was ok. She wasn't alone, he did it very professionally too and even kindly. Yet, Rory's bubble was burst and instead of Lorelai saying: "I hate to tell you Rory but there are going to be a lot of people who tell you, you can't do it or you will find you aren't good at everything." "You have to do either two things, either prove them wrong or accept it, learn and move on." Yet, Lorelai's response: "Oh well, you are perfect." Richard did it, Emily told her. Rory had this constant talk and even a backing of her home town that she was this perfect little girl who could do anything and as soon as she received any feedback she wasn't, she shut down. That was the problem when she decided to drop out of Yale and move in with her grandparents. It was a complete 180 of who the character was. Same with Paris, why I had such a problem with Paris with her little breakdowns.

  She went from realizing she wasn't perfect but was still good at things after her little meltdown where she blamed having sex with her boyfriend the reasons why didn't get into Princeton. She then makes it into Yale, has a good things going for her, then sleeps with her professor. Then recovering from his death and problems with his family, gets into a relationship with Doyle. Then builds a crazy hut when she can't handle the pressures of being editor so Rory can get into the position and rebuild her reputation after out of nowhere breakdown. Then she decides to become a doctor. 

  The writers especially ASP just threw out story ideas and tried to see what stuck and instead of following through or have people you know... react in a normal way. They had to be wacky or do wacky things no one in their right mind would do. Its also why I was happy with how Lindsey's mom told Rory she screwed everything up but did one person really yell at Dean outside of Lindsey throwing stuff out the window? No! Lorelei's reply with their relationship after everything: "It makes her happy." Yeah, great parenting skills there. Now, if Lindsey would have attacked Rory when the face to face happened, that would have made sense for a 19 year old girl who had her husband cheat on her with his ex girlfriend. Instead she looked like she just wetted her pants and then that was the last we ever saw of her. There were just bad follow throughs on these story lines because when it came to the big drama of stories. There was no follow through, things were just dropped. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by readster

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

 

The writers especially ASP just threw out story ideas and tried to see what stuck and instead of following through or have people you know... react in a normal way. They had to be wacky or do wacky things no one in their right mind would do.

 

One of the weirdest examples of this to me was Rory's reaction after the Huntzberger dinner. How is her response "But I'm A Gilmore" and not "WTF?!? I'm 19 and we've been officially going out a week! Lets pump the brakes people."

[dustylil]

With respect, Rory was 20 at that dinner, not 19.

And in addition to "WTF......",  if she was as bright and thoughtful as we had had been told, she might have recognized that the comments made by were somewhat correct - if tactless and premature. She wasn't raised or trained to be the chatelaine of a number of great homes or the wife of a major media mogul. And yes, she came from an old New England family but they had chump change compared to the Huntzbergers. As well, she had her always wanted her own career as a journalist, travelling the world and emulating Christiane Amanpour . Would she be willing to give that up to marry Logan?

Now Shira clearly had the wrong end of the stick in assuming Rory and Logan were close to becoming engaged, but the points she raised would have to be addressed if the relationship did become more serious. Personally, I thought the Huntzbergers were infinitely better behaved at that dinner (and afterward) than the one back in Season 2 where poor Dean received his grilling.

Edited January 4, 2015 by dustylil

[GreenScreenFX]

I cringe every time Lorelei refers to Rory as her kid... Which is almost every episode. A kid is a goat not a daughter/child.

Edited January 4, 2015 by GreenScreenFX

[GreenScreenFX]

This could be a regional thing. It just seems out of place .

[Betweenyouandme]

My biggest pet peeve ever is "kiddo," so no explanations needed on my behalf.

[txhorns79]

if she was as bright and thoughtful as we had had been told, she might have recognized that the comments made by were somewhat correct - if tactless and premature.  She wasn't raised or trained to be the chatelaine of a number of great homes or the wife of a major media mogul. And yes, she came from an old New England family but they had chump change compared to the Huntzbergers. As well, she had her always wanted her own career as a journalist, travelling the world and emulating Christiane Amanpour.

 

I'm fairly certain whatever "message" Shira had hoped to send was negated by the messenger. It's like Bill Clinton offering a lecture on the importance of monogamy in a marriage.  But who knows, perhaps Rory should have taken the lecture she was receiving from the former cocktail waitress (with an adulterous husband), about concerns over her background and life plan more seriously.  After all, Shira was living proof of what happened when those things weren't considered properly.      

 

 

No! Lorelei's reply with their relationship after everything: "It makes her happy." Yeah, great parenting skills there.

 

I guess my question would be, what was Lorelai supposed to do at that point?  She already made clear to Rory that the relationship with Dean wasn't a good idea after she had caught them in the season finale, and Rory didn't take her advice.  I guess she could refuse to accept the relationship, but I don't think that would solve anything.   

Edited January 4, 2015 by txhorns79

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

With respect, Rory was 20 at that dinner, not 19.

And in addition to "WTF......",  if she was as bright and thoughtful as we had had been told, she might have recognized that the comments made by were somewhat correct - if tactless and premature. She wasn't raised or trained to be the chatelaine of a number of great homes or the wife of a major media mogul. And yes, she came from an old New England family but they had chump change compared to the Huntzbergers. As well, she had her always wanted her own career as a journalist, travelling the world and emulating Christiane Amanpour . Would she be willing to give that up to marry Logan?

Now Shira clearly had the wrong end of the stick in assuming Rory and Logan were close to becoming engaged, but the points she raised would have to be addressed if the relationship did become more serious. Personally, I thought the Huntzbergers were infinitely better behaved at that dinner (and afterward) than the one back in Season 2 where poor Dean received his grilling.

 

I just can't see (maybe this is my own bias talking) a 20 year old, raised the way she was, who only just started officially dating this guy, not being a little baffled by the marriage talk in general. Regardless of whatever message is being sent.

[dustylil]

RoyRogersMcFreely, I'll reveal my own bias here as well - I was married at twenty. Still am for that matter:) 

 In any event, I wouldn't think any talk of marriage would be that foreign to her. She had had peers that were married and the couple she admired the most in the world were wed in their early twenties. That it was not something she herself was even considering doesn't mean that others would necessarily view things the same way. Especially members of a family who viewed themselves as dynasty with significant responsibilities. I would have thought being at Yale would have made Rory  less narrow-minded and broadened her outlook ;)

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

RoyRogersMcFreely, I'll reveal my own bias here as well - I was married at twenty. Still am for that matter:) 

 In any event, I wouldn't think any talk of marriage would be that foreign to her. She had had peers that were married and the couple she admired the most in the world were wed in their early twenties. That it was not something she herself was even considering doesn't mean that others would necessarily view things the same way. Especially members of a family who viewed themselves as dynasty with significant responsibilities. I would have thought being at Yale would have made Rory  less narrow-minded and broadened her outlook ;)

 

I just don't think it has anything to do with her overall outlook on marriage. Given the circumstances of their relationship up until this point and the fact that it took Logan so long to even be ready to commit to being a boyfriend. I would think marriage talk would throw someone off guard. I'm not saying she should have brought it up at the dinner table but maybe in the midst of her rantings to Logan, as an aside, even.

[txhorns79]

Given the circumstances of their relationship up until this point and the fact that it took Logan so long to even be ready to commit to being a boyfriend. I would think marriage talk would throw someone off guard. I'm not saying she should have brought it up at the dinner table but maybe in the midst of her rantings to Logan, as an aside, even.

 

I don't think you are wrong.  Rory had been exposed to many different types of marriages and heard about failed marriages.  It would be a little ridiculous, given her own relatively recent experience in helping to end Dean's marriage (along with her having witnessed all the other problems prevalent in Dean's marriage), that she would have given the topic any serious thought as it related to Logan.  The only thing Shira's conversation really showed was that she was fairly disconnected from what was going on in her son's life, and she had no clue as to what was going on with he and Rory.     

[readster]

I don't think you are wrong.  Rory had been exposed to many different types of marriages and heard about failed marriages.  It would be a little ridiculous, given her own relatively recent experience in helping to end Dean's marriage (along with her having witnessed all the other problems prevalent in Dean's marriage), that she would have given the topic any serious thought as it related to Logan.  The only thing Shira's conversation really showed was that she was fairly disconnected from what was going on in her son's life, and she had no clue as to what was going on with he and Rory.     

 

 Exactly! Same with Logan's grandfather, he was all school where kids got married while still finishing college and the man worked and the woman stayed at home with the kids and then later moved on to working or other events after the kids were in school. To really throw a big WTF was when Emily and Richard was saying how it would be great if Rory married Logan when they first went out and Lorelei pointed out how short they had been together or that Logan didn't even admit he was her boyfriend yet. Let they were off on one of their little fantasy worlds where the universe revolved around them. It also made Shira and Mitchum come off as major hypercricts when people know Shira marred for money and most likely because she was pregnant with Honor and that Mitchum was known to still be sneaking around. Shira was very disconnected from her son's life or how people were now a days in college even places like Yale. If she really knew anything, she would have seen that Logan was about having fun and yes Rory was different but at the same time. He was showing no signs of wanting to settle down or anything and Honor who was a few years older than him had a nice guy who from what was revealed came from a similar upbringing as Rory just that his parents got married and then had him. 

  Rory was so narrow minded she still at this point wouldn't admit that Georgia was her half sister until Chris came back into their lives because his wife left him. Rory really should have said: "We just started dating." "I'm not here to do anything." Shira and Logan's grandfather either could have accepted that answers or not. No, it took Richard and Emily tearing them a new one and Rory getting back on her feet that finally convinced them. 

[dustylil]

Readster, how do we know Shira married for money - beyond Emily's nasty remarks, that is? Given Emily's predilection for vilifying people she doesn't like (the  "hirsute lout" diner owner comes to mind), I personally would not consider her a credible source.

Edited January 4, 2015 by dustylil

[txhorns79]

how do we know Shira married for money - beyond Emily's nasty remarks, that is?

 

Indeed, it would make more sense that Mitchum married Shira because she was pregnant, or as part of some kind of rebellion against his roots.  Otherwise, I can't imagine that family allowing Mitchum to marry a cocktail waitress given the way they reacted to Rory. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by txhorns79

[Luciano]

Like Rory, I would have reacted to the insult first rather than the marriage talk. If someone says to my boyfriend, "Oh, you can't marry her, she's not good enough!," I would take issue with the insult immediately because that's what is going to be making me feel like crap at that moment.

(What I didn't like was everyone from Rory's family going "But she's a Gilmore!" as if it were okay for Shira to react that way to someone from a less prestigious family.)

[dustylil]

What I didn't like was everyone from Rory's family going "But she's a Gilmore!" as if it were okay for Shira to react that way to someone from a less prestigious family

 

Why not? That was the Gilmore way of dealing with lesser mortals.

[readster]

Why not? That was the Gilmore way of dealing with lesser mortals.

 

 Yeah, big UO was when Emily trying to ruin Luke and Lorelai by getting Christopher to get Lorelai back and she called Georgia a "Thing" in his face twice. Rory even referred to Georgia as just being a half sister and nothing else. I'm sorry, if anyone would have called my child a "thing" I be like: "Get the Hell out of my house and never come back." Especially when Chris talked about how much Lorelai and him belong together. He spent almost 2 years never talking to either of them and in the season 3 premiere he acted like Lorelai could be his side gal when he said he was going to focus on marrying his new baby's mom. Why Rory blew up at him because he wanted to choose to be there more for his second kid when she had been there the last 17 years. He chose kid 2 until he was left raising GiGi on his own and didn't know what to do. Even worse, this was part of ASP classic: "She left her own kid." "Chris is the victim here because Dave Sutcliff is mine again to use. Hehe." "Down with L/L!" I know Georgia was a plot device but why, the poor kid had no choice in her existence and the only person who gave a damn about her outside of Christopher was Lorelai and she had no connection outside being George's half sister's mom when Big Sis at one point said she had no sister. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by readster

[txhorns79]

Rory even referred to Georgia as just being a half sister and nothing else.

 

I can't blame Rory for not feeling that much of a connection to Georgia.  Rory has a limited relationship with her father, and, at best, sees he and Georgia irregularly.  And that doesn't even get into the fact that Georgia is what, 18 years younger than Rory?  Those are difficult circumstances under which to form a relationship, much less one where Rory feels a sisterly bond to Georgia.  From my own experience, I have a friend who was 17 when his last sibling was born.  They are full siblings, but don't have much of a relationship, not because of anything either has done, but simply because he was already established with his own family by the time his youngest sibling was eleven or twelve.  As such, he had his own life by that point and the bonding events never happened.     

[readster]

I can't blame Rory for not feeling that much of a connection to Georgia.  Rory has a limited relationship with her father, and, at best, sees he and Georgia irregularly.  And that doesn't even get into the fact that Georgia is what, 18 years younger than Rory?  Those are difficult circumstances under which to form a relationship, much less one where Rory feels a sisterly bond to Georgia.  From my own experience, I have a friend who was 17 when his last sibling was born.  They are full siblings, but don't have much of a relationship, not because of anything either has done, but simply because he was already established with his own family by the time his youngest sibling was eleven or twelve.  As such, he had his own life by that point and the bonding events never happened.     

 

 Oh, I completely see your point, my siblings are are much younger than me, 14 years to be exact but I actually wanted to have a relationship with them. That has paid off now that they are in their 20s and they want to have a relationship with my wife and their nephew. What I'm trying to get at, it would have been an interesting angle to go with especially when they were basically having Lorelai fit into the stepmother role with both April and Georgia. Especially when when Lorelai was that when her and Christopher were briefly married and where it was going with Luke. Despite the age difference, Rory would have had April or Georgia in her life on a more regular basis. 8 years age difference with April and 17 with Georgia. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I can't blame Rory for not feeling that much of a connection to Georgia.  Rory has a limited relationship with her father, and, at best, sees he and Georgia irregularly.  And that doesn't even get into the fact that Georgia is what, 18 years younger than Rory?  Those are difficult circumstances under which to form a relationship, much less one where Rory feels a sisterly bond to Georgia.  From my own experience, I have a friend who was 17 when his last sibling was born.  They are full siblings, but don't have much of a relationship, not because of anything either has done, but simply because he was already established with his own family by the time his youngest sibling was eleven or twelve.  As such, he had his own life by that point and the bonding events never happened.     

 

Plus, it didn't seem like Rory was one that reached out to someone to cultivate a relationship, of any sort, at least not in the beginnings of said relationship. They usually would come to her.

[Kohola3]

GiGi was just a stupid plot point thrown in there with no thought as to where it would lead after "gotta go, Sherry is pregnant".  I don't think the writers remembered she existed most of the time;  thus no real effort at a relationship between the half-siblings.

[dustylil]

Readster, in what episode and scene did Emily refer to Georgia as a Thing? Sounds more like something Francine and Straub would call Rory :)

If I recall correctly, Emily only met Georgia the one time in Season 5. She wasn't exactly warm and effusive with either Christopher or the child and at one point gestured to the little girl as "this". Was there another scene I am forgetting?

 

As to the relationship of Rory and Gigi -  I don't fault Rory. I would have thought it was incumbent on the parents - Christopher and Sherry - to encourage and foster ties between the two girls. That seemingly is what Sherry wanted initially. Of course, she soon soured on all things connected to Christopher. And if it didn't involve Christopher spending time with Lorelai, he wasn't going to make the effort.

Edited January 5, 2015 by dustylil

[readster]

Readster, in what episode and scene did Emily refer to Georgia as a Thing? Sounds more like something Francine and Straub would call Rory :)

If I recall correctly, Emily only met Georgia the one time in Season 5. She wasn't exactly warm and effusive with either Christopher or the child and at one point gestured to the little girl as "this". Was there another scene I am forgetting?

 

As to the relationship of Rory and Gigi -  I don't fault Rory. I would have thought it was incumbent on the parents - Christopher and Sherry - to encourage and foster ties between the two girls. That seemingly is what Sherry wanted initially. Of course, she soon soured on all things connected to Christopher. And if it didn't involve Christopher spending time with Lorelai, he wasn't going to make the effort.

 

 Its the same episode, she first said "this" and then "thing" Never was she referred to by her name. However, when I first heard "this" that really put a bad taste in my mouth too. Emily had a way with words that really was very degrading to people. As for Sherry, as said, she was turned into the deserting mother who then had a change of heart to give the "Poor Christopher" feel just like Nicole cheating on Luke with Sockman. I think I'm going to drop the lost possibility with Georgia and Rory it was something that no one had interest in from the writers to the characters. 

[dustylil]

 

CHRIS: Emily. Wow, this is a surprise.

EMILY: May I come in? [she walks in.]

CHRIS: Yes, please come in. I didn’t even know you knew where I lived.

EMILY: I know all kinds of things. [she looks around.] Obviously you have a maid.

CHRIS: Yes, I have a maid-nanny combo.

EMILY: Ah. How McDonald’s of you.

CHRIS: Uh, can I get you something? A tea, or coffee, or –

EMILY: I’m fine, thank you. [she looks down at Gigi.] So, this is the child.

CHRIS: Yes, this is Georgia. We call her Gigi.

EMILY: And her mother’s still gone?

CHRIS: Yes. She’s in Paris.

EMILY: All right. I’ll come straight to the point, Christopher. Now, I have known you a long time. I watched you grow up. You were a charming boy. A weak, but charming boy. And to be completely honest, I never thought much of you. I still don’t.

CHRIS: Wow. That’s great of you to come by and share that with me.

EMILY: However, you have good breeding. You come from an impeccable and you love Lorelai. You’ve always loved Lorelai. You would’ve married her when she got pregnant. I know that. And you would have married her if that girlfriend of yours hadn’t gotten pregnant with this. [she gestures at Gigi.] I know that too. Lorelai’s in a relationship now, did you know that?

CHRIS: Yes, I know that.

EMILY: He owns a diner. He’s a divorcee. He’s uneducated, he’s not a proper stepfather for Rory and he’s completely unsuitable for Lorelai. My daughter is stubborn, but she’s capable of greatness. And watching her settle down with a man who could hold her back from that is unacceptable. You, at least, won’t hold her back.

CHRIS: Okay, Emily, I’m very confused by this speech of yours, and Gigi needs to be fed.

EMILY: She’s getting serious with this man. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. If you want a chance with Lorelai you had better do something. And you had better do something now. [she places an envelope on the table.] Timing has never been your strong point, Christopher. You should see if you can change that. Goodbye, Gigi. Enjoy your program.

 

While it pains me to defend Emily, the above is the transcript of that scene. She may be ruthless and Machiavellian, but she wasn't unkind to or about the toddler.  

 

It amused me that two of the points Emily used to denigrate Luke as a potential spouse for Lorelai - that he was  divorced and uneducated - could just as easily have been applied to Christopher.