Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[apn85]

On 6/27/2016 at 6:00 PM, funnygirl said:

I feel like at some point towards the end of the season they changed it from a grant that would last "at least" a year to a fellowship. When Meredith was saying goodbye to the dishrag, she told her to kick butt on the fellowship. And in what world does a third year resident be eligible for a fellowship? Aren't fellowships usually for after boards are taken? 

Which goes to show that the entire thing was a cut and paste job to give Callie an exit, as crappy as it was. 

Yes, a Fellowship happens after residency is completed. Just weird. I mean she was part of the reason Derek supposedly died yet she's given an award? Then in the same season, Ben was investigated by everyone (including his wife) for performing what he stated was an emergency operation and ended up suspended for six months. The whole Penny thing never made sense to me. 

[Scatterbrained]

Someone here mentioned that they feel this cast is bloated and I tend to agree.  Going forward, I hope they hold back on introducing even more characters.  I know that Sarah Drew was initially only supposed to be there for two episodes and then be gone forever, but they liked her acting and kept her on.  My theory is that they may hire a bunch of people and then see who "sticks".  I am guessing that when the series was created, Shonda (& co.) may have had specific ideas about each character, how that character related to other characters, and just exactly how their stories would go.  Then they cast the person they thought was the perfect embodiment of that character.  Given the backstage dramas of yore causing characters to leave before their stories (as initially planned) were told, I feel that they now keep the cast members who are the easier individuals to work with and who mesh best with the other members of the cast when the cameras are not rolling.  Also, the show has lasted longer than anyone probably planned.  So, the original characters have probably outlived whatever their originally conceived storylines were.  When Cristina told Meredith, "You became what we never saw coming" that felt very meta to me.

 

I am interested to see what they do with Webber's character going forward.  To be honest, I've never been a hardcore Grey's fan.  I've watched it on an off over the years. I've liked his character, but haven't always liked the major storylines they've given him.  I've fast forwarded through those parts, so I probably stand to be corrected in some of my speculative thoughts, but here they are anyway.  He seems like a man who watches and waits and, in his early life, hesitated before making decisions.  In my own personal life, I like to say that there are times when you are given choices where neither one is ideal.  In that situation, you aren't so much deciding which is the better choice, you are ultimately deciding what is the right regret.  I think he may have a similar mindset.  At least when he chose his wife over Ellis.  Now, with the perspective that time provides and additional information being presented (bio-daughter!) he may realize that he chose the wrong regret.  

 

The question is, what will he do about all of that now?  I don't know if fatherhood was something he really wanted back then, or is something he wishes he had done now that he looks back on his life, but currently he has a bio-daughter in his life, a step-son with an absentee father in his life, and the daughter of his former love in his life (and she also has an absentee father).  There are now four kids in need of a grandpa.  How cute would it be if he stepped into this role?  I would love to see a scene where he is baby wearing baby Japril or pulling Mer's kids in a wagon to go to storytime or something.  All that aside, I feel like he's been watching and waiting and somewhat hesitating with Mer, Maggie, and Jackson (particularly the last two).  I would like to see him be more assertive and involved in a relationship with them and I feel that maybe that's what they've been building up to.  Especially when we've seen him tell Arizona to fight for her child and Jackson to step up and co-parent with April.  He's already fought for and won a second, or third chance at a great love and partnership with Catherine.  Now let's see him go for it with other familial roles.

[apn85]

I have always liked Richard. As the show goes on, he grows on me more and more. 

I think for him, he has been such a supporting character, that I just don't know if he will ever be pulled out of that. Of course, that is just my opinion and I am surprised all of the time, lol. I also feel like since Catherine comes/goes so often that that fact might play into the stories he gets also. 

I do wish they would explore his relationship with Maggie more. I feel like there was such a build up to it and then they kind of just dropped it. I wish they would have more scenes together and explore their relationship. Meredith I feel like he's always had a good relationship with, but I feel like the last couple seasons even that has dropped off what with all Meredith has had going on and him marrying Catherine. His relationship with Meredith should be a guide to how his with Maggie should be. They have really dropped the ball with that, IMO. Jackson....well, I just don't see that ever being anything more than it is right now. I think Jackson respects him as his Mother's husband, but I don't think Jackson is looking for a relationship with him. I do think given that fact that I know Catherine is going to be around as much as possible now that Jackson has a baby (there is no way that woman can help herself, LOL) that we might see more scenes where Richard is involved....but I just don't see this big relationship developing between the two men. Though I definitely think Jackson could benefit from having the guy around. Between his Mother, his ex-wife/baby mama/gets-under-my-skin-more-than-an-ex-wife-should, and his daughter - dude needs some more males in his life. Now he has three women in his life that he has no control over, lol. :P 

[Scatterbrained]

I agree.  I think that with the deaths of McDreamy and McSteamy, plus Mercy West dude who was shot and killed, there just aren't a lot of dudes being "bros" on this show anymore.  I think we could use a little more "dude dynamic" on this show.  Maybe they can both take the baby to Gymboree and bond over escaping from the women...or...something.

[apn85]

LMAO That would be hilarious. I just wish we'd see the kids more, period! I love the scenes where we see Zola, Bailey, and Ellis. I love the dynamic between the adults and kids. One of my favorite scenes of S12 was Maggie, Amelia, and Meredith getting the kids ready one morning and Meredith saying they were like cat ladies only the kids were their cats. Such a great scene! We just don't get many of those anymore. I also love seeing Sofia! With this new baby.....seeing as how I think both Jackson and April are generally clueless about newborns that could be some cute scenes that DIDN'T include fighting (for once) and we'd get to see one of the Grey's kids! I know it is a medical drama, but the non doctor side of these characters is what is so endearing...at least to me it is. 

Another thing......the show just isn't as funny as it used to be. I mean there are some one liners still, but when I watch old episodes on Lifetime or Netflix I realize just how funny this show used to be. Which I guess could go straight back to the cast has just gotten so large and everyone has broken off into little cliques. I miss it! 

[BabyBBQKendall]

I think losing Sandra Oh really affected the humor of the show, she could bring levity to the most overwrought storylines with just her line delivery. And Alex lost his funny, mean streak when he became agony aunt to the sisters. He even calls Jackson and April by their first names now...what a world...

[apn85]

12 hours ago, BlindMaryIngalls said:

I think losing Sandra Oh really affected the humor of the show, she could bring levity to the most overwrought storylines with just her line delivery. And Alex lost his funny, mean streak when he became agony aunt to the sisters. He even calls Jackson and April by their first names now...what a world...

This is 100% spot on!

[windsprints]

First table read of S13 was today:

[Scatterbrained]

I remember when X-Files was on the show's writers and creators credited Gillian Anderson's pregnancy for forcing them to think about where they should go creatively in order to work around it and it influenced their larger, longer story arcs.

I am beginning to feel that Patrick Dempsey's exit may have inspired something similar with the Grey's team.  This thought was partially influenced by someone mentioning that Shonda originally had a different plan for Meredith in the early days but was overruled.  I also feel that they have been trying to tighten up the onscreen relationships within the cast.  Ex.  Owen is now not just the ex-husband of Mer's best friend who has left town, he is now her sister-in-law's husband, and has a long history with her new love interest.  Arizona now has a strong friendship with Webber, as well as already developed friendships with April and Alex, etc.  I think Season 13 will try to continue connecting everyone a bit more, and tell better stories.  I feel the last half of Season 11 and all of Season 12 has been laying the groundwork.  Let's hope!

Edited July 23, 2016 by Scatterbrained

[Nobodysfan]

On 23. 7. 2016 at 4:40 AM, windsprints said:

First table read of S13 was today:

I have always wondered they always eat and read the script, weird, how greasy and stainy the script pages must become or how they can read the lines aloud while eating. Odd table manners. How about eating lunch first, and then work?  

Odd timing, they are starting quite late, compared with the previous seasons when the shooting began at least two weeks earlier which leads me to assume we will see only a few episodes until the winter hiatus, maybe only 6 or 7 at best. I remember Sandra always celebrated her birthday 20th July on set, and they were almost done shooting episode 1.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[Wilson]

I may be wrong, but on July 15th, Shonda Rhimes tweeted that she emerged from the editing room to find out about the Nice tragedy. I wondered and still do, what was she editing if none of her shows had begun filming for next season? Perhaps the reason Sarah Drew knew that the show is picking up right where it left off (as she mentioned at the CTV interview) is because they filmed more than what we saw in the finale? Just a thought, but that could also explain the late start. 

[apn85]

4 hours ago, Wilson said:

I may be wrong, but on July 15th, Shonda Rhimes tweeted that she emerged from the editing room to find out about the Nice tragedy. I wondered and still do, what was she editing if none of her shows had begun filming for next season? Perhaps the reason Sarah Drew knew that the show is picking up right where it left off (as she mentioned at the CTV interview) is because they filmed more than what we saw in the finale? Just a thought, but that could also explain the late start. 

Possible! Though I am pretty certain Sarah Drew also said she didn't know the name of Jackson and April's baby and that she was anxious to find out. So unless they don't name the baby in 13x01 (which is entirely possible) then I don't think they have filmed it. Just speculating though. It could have been for another project of Shonda's. She has so many things going! 

[Nobodysfan]

5 hours ago, Wilson said:

I may be wrong, but on July 15th, Shonda Rhimes tweeted that she emerged from the editing room to find out about the Nice tragedy. I wondered and still do, what was she editing if none of her shows had begun filming for next season? Perhaps the reason Sarah Drew knew that the show is picking up right where it left off (as she mentioned at the CTV interview) is because they filmed more than what we saw in the finale? Just a thought, but that could also explain the late start. 

It seems so. If they start late like this, then they must have filmed more of the wedding for the finale which they will use for at least one half of the premiere if not more, and it fits to what some actors have said that they pick up right where they have left off. Though I think for example that Jo/Deluca/Alex scene is all they have filmed, but a good portion of the premiere will still be the wedding itself and the reception possibly. So more of that Hunt/Amelia crap at least for me.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[windsprints]

11 hours ago, apn85 said:

It could have been for another project of Shonda's. She has so many things going! 

I agree. She has an upcoming documentary, she could have been editing the pilot for her new upcoming show (they start filming this week I think), etc. 

I don't find them eating lunch at a table read odd.  Lots of actors from various shows tweet/insta pictures from table reads and there's often food there. I don't see it as different than a lunch meeting in a corporate setting.

They're casting babies: 

Edited July 25, 2016 by windsprints

[BaseOps]

From EW: 

Are we seeing more of the Owen and Amelia wedding in the Grey’s Anatomy premiere? — Poullete
The season premiere picks up right where we left off, but expect the Alex and Jo storyline to play a bigger role in the season opener. “In the first episode, it’s really wedding night, so Owen and Amelia are otherwise occupied,” Caterina Scorsone tells me. “And there’s a big piece of drama going on having to do with another storyline [with Alex and Jo] that I think is going to play for a while in the season. It’s very explosive, very exciting and interesting on social levels and personal character levels.”

[Chas411]

Looking forward to the Alex/Jo stuff.

[apn85]

Oh wow, sounds like it is literally picking up from where it ended. I was thinking maybe a day or so later, but sounds like same night. I'm anxious for so much! Wondering what happens with Alex and Jo. Also want to know what Jackson and April name their baby! 

[BaseOps]

S13 premiere is titled "Undo". Written by William Harper & Directed by Debbie Allen. 

[windsprints]

Access Hollywood Interview:

https://www.accesshollywood.com/videos/greys-anatomy-caterina-scorsone-giacomo-gianotti-tease-s13/

Happy to hear there's no time jump and that Alex hitting DeLuca won't be swept under the rug.

[apn85]

Can't wait!

The name of the episode, "Undo", would really fit something about everyone's situation save for Owen and Amelia. 

Will be interesting!!

[mdw]

On June 14, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Nobodysfan said:

I just watched an interview at the TV festival in Monaco with McKidd and Henderson and quite an odd idea from Martin. When asked who he would prefer/want with Nathan he said both - Meredith and Maggie and that he is interested in the triangle and loves it. What a really stupid idea,honestly stupid. I don´t know how he meant it, so Nathan would sleep with Meredith one night and Maggie would be for the next night???? So he would flirt with both and lie to both and cheat to both? Just what he did to Megan?

What do you alll  think? 

I am really disappointed with how Martin responded, it sounds so immature to me and he is a man in his early forties. I find it quite a shady thing to say.

Maybe the actor means he likes the idea of playing a character who is in the middle of a love triangle, not that he means that he thinks Nathan should date both at the same time. Love triangles, unrequited love, romantic misunderstandings, and all of that are the bread and butter of romantic comedies and soapy romantic dramas.

 

I think that Maggie has a crush on him and it's more like puppy love. The character seems emotionally immature in terms of how she is in dating and romantic relationships. It seems like she doesn't have a lot of experience with being in relationships. She's also a romantic and is kind of innocent about love, which is sweet to me. I don't think Riggs was flirting with her in any of the scenes that I've seen. I think he would have asked her out if he were interested. He asked Meredith out early in the season when they were in the elevator.

[mdw]

On August 9, 2016 at 9:19 PM, apn85 said:

Can't wait!

The name of the episode, "Undo", would really fit something about everyone's situation save for Owen and Amelia. 

Will be interesting!!

Maybe Christina will show up at the end of the episode - not at the wedding b/c that would be cheesy IMO. Or there will be news that she's coming to Seattle for a medical reason. This would be a good conflict!

I can't wait for the season premiere also. I have been catching up on seasons 10-12 this summer. I got frustrated with the show and stopped watching after the season 9 finale and the season 10 opener with the Arizona cheating story, Richard seems to die in a disaster scenario, Jackson rejects April and more will-they-won't-they drama. Then when I read that Cristina left and later that Derek died, I didn't think I'd watch it again. I didn't think it would be good - those two characters and, obviously, Meredith are the cornerstones of the show. But I have summers off - I'm a teacher - and I was looking for things to binge watch. Season 12 got really good reviews....and now I'm hooked!

[Scatterbrained]

According to the Wiki countdown timer we have 36 days to go.  Since Grey's episodes titles are usually also song titles anyone wanna speculate as to which "Undo" song is the one the episode is named after?  I realize the song lyrics don't always connect to the episode.  Just trying to have some fun here.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Scatterbrained

[apn85]

3 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

According to the Wiki countdown timer we have 36 days to go.  Since Grey's episodes titles are usually also song titles anyone wanna speculate as to which "Undo" song is the one the episode is named after?  I realize the song lyrics don't always connect to the episode.  Just trying to have some fun here.

I honestly don't know of a song titled "Undo" off the top of my head to even begin to speculate. Any ideas where title came from? I think I just repeated your question LOL 

[Scatterbrained]

I googled the term "Undo lyrics" and a few different songs popped up.

[mdw]

My hopes for season 13:

Meredith does not get in a relationship right away. She occasionally hooks up with Riggs. They have more flirtatious scenes, like in the finale. She continues to recover emotionally from Derek's death and accepts that she will have a fulfilling romantic life again. She dates. 

There is no love triangle with Meredith, Maggie and Riggs. Or if there is, it is brief and Maggie realizes she has a crush and it's usually not a good idea to date your subordinates. Maggie also dates and becomes more experienced and mature with romantic relationships.

There is another dinner party at casa Grey that has a light-hearted tone, one in which one of the hosts doesn't leave because she thinks she may have a venereal disease and the surprise guest wasn't partly responsible for the death of the other hosts' husband and brother.

Amelia loses her position as the head of neurosurgery, because what hospital fills this position with a junkie/alcoholic who on occasion relapses? Amelia and Owen break up because even though the actors are both very good and the characters connect emotionally, IMO, they don't have sexual chemistry. They are both too intense and dark.

Bailey and Warren have a solid relationship with some conflicts that are solvable. In ensemble dramas, it's nice to have some stable couples and relationships. Or, the individual characters have problems/conflicts to resolve professionally or with other characters, and the couple helps each other through that.

April and Jackson get back together before the end of the season but not right away, and that the obstacles for them to overcome have to do with the inner emotional dynamics of the couple. Motherhood leads April to becomes less self-centered and more aware of/responsive to the needs of others. Jackson lets go of his anger towards April and pain from his previous losses, he transfers his protective instincts to his daughter instead of his spouse, and becomes better at communicating his deeper feelings and needs. He is more cerebral and pushes his darker, more painful feelings aside by focusing on taking care of others or moving ahead in a linear manner. I really hope that, if the intention of the writers is to eventually have the characters remarry, they don't spend most of the season by having the characters get in relationships with other people who are great but not the characters' true love. GA already did that with this couple in seasons 9-10. I'd also like it if April had a storyline outside of her romance with Jackson and motherhood, maybe something professional.

Arizona gets a love interest and has more of a storyline. I loved her storyline with Dr. Herman in season 11 and I like her relationship with Alex.

Camilla Luddington digs deep and is more believable as a person who bounced around in foster care as a child, lived in a car as a teenager, escaped from a physically abusive marriage, put herself through a prestigious college and med school, and is a surgical resident. The actress is very beautiful and charming, has great chemistry with Justin Chambers, but is not at all convincing as someone who is emotionally damaged and in a career that requires intellectual strength. If the actress is up to the challenge, Jo and Alex's storyline would be very moving. There is a great deal of drama in it, having to do with domestic abuse and the fact that Jo has kept this major secret from Alex who already has major trust issues. It will be great to see Alex in a meaty storyline and to have Meredith be there for Alex in the way that he has been there for her since Derek died. I really hope that Meredith and Alex never become a romantic couple. I like that they totally get one another and are there for each other. They clearly love each other deeply, and it's nice that the show gives value to other forms of love not just romantic love.

The children in the show are featured more. Currently, they serve as plot points to show movement in the romantic entanglements of the characters. When the children do appear in scenes, they are more like props than characters. The show has had many good child actors and moving stories with children in the medical storylines. The Callie v. Arizona, Kramer v. Kramer, episode would have been much more moving and emotionally satisfying had they shown the relationships that each mother had with Sophia. And seriously, where are Meredith's children when she's at home? Where do they sleep? She has three young children and three adults who live at her house? Is it like Flowers in the Attic? Joking. I know that Grey's isn't a family drama, but the major, long established characters are in their mid-thirties to forties. A lot of the life humor, charm and drama of the early seasons came from the fact that the group of interns/residents who were Meredith's friends and peers were finding their ways in their careers and in their romantic lives, which is what people do in their twenties. Now that they are established adults, more of the fun slice of life stuff comes from family life and children factor in that. I really doubt that this will happen but I wish it would.

Megan does not ever show up or appear. She is truly dead. If she appears out of the blue having had amnesia or been a hostage of some Middle Eastern terrorist group, it will be too soapy! It already pushes the bounds of credulity that Meredith had an unknown sister who was the love child of her mother and Webber who happens to be a top notch surgeon and lands a job at the hospital where Meredith works. Grey's Anatomy is so good at the authentic drama that it doesn't need the soapy shtick.

The show continues to feature episodes that are outside of its customary medical procedural structure. These episodes have been some of the most dramatically satisfying with longer scenes. These episodes have delved deeper into the characters and given the actors a chance to show their talent.

[Chas411]

I don't think Maggie/Riggs/Mer will face a triangle. I still maintain they're ultimately going to link with Maggie with Alex. They've shown little interest in Jo for seasons and I feel the marriage storyline will just serve as the final nail in the Jolex coffin. Maggie on the other hand is a clear writers/Shonda favourite and I think linking her with an original is exactly where they'll go next. 

 

That way - instead of getting nothing with Jo. Alex can continue to be All About the Sisters.

[Deanie87]

On 8/18/2016 at 2:23 AM, mdw said:

My hopes for season 13:

Meredith does not get in a relationship right away. She occasionally hooks up with Riggs. They have more flirtatious scenes, like in the finale. She continues to recover emotionally from Derek's death and accepts that she will have a fulfilling romantic life again. She dates. 

There is no love triangle with Meredith, Maggie and Riggs. Or if there is, it is brief and Maggie realizes she has a crush and it's usually not a good idea to date your subordinates. Maggie also dates and becomes more experienced and mature with romantic relationships.

There is another dinner party at casa Grey that has a light-hearted tone, one in which one of the hosts doesn't leave because she thinks she may have a venereal disease and the surprise guest wasn't partly responsible for the death of the other hosts' husband and brother.

Amelia loses her position as the head of neurosurgery, because what hospital fills this position with a junkie/alcoholic who on occasion relapses? Amelia and Owen break up because even though the actors are both very good and the characters connect emotionally, IMO, they don't have sexual chemistry. They are both too intense and dark.

Bailey and Warren have a solid relationship with some conflicts that are solvable. In ensemble dramas, it's nice to have some stable couples and relationships. Or, the individual characters have problems/conflicts to resolve professionally or with other characters, and the couple helps each other through that.

April and Jackson get back together before the end of the season but not right away, and that the obstacles for them to overcome have to do with the inner emotional dynamics of the couple. Motherhood leads April to becomes less self-centered and more aware of/responsive to the needs of others. Jackson lets go of his anger towards April and pain from his previous losses, he transfers his protective instincts to his daughter instead of his spouse, and becomes better at communicating his deeper feelings and needs. He is more cerebral and pushes his darker, more painful feelings aside by focusing on taking care of others or moving ahead in a linear manner. I really hope that, if the intention of the writers is to eventually have the characters remarry, they don't spend most of the season by having the characters get in relationships with other people who are great but not the characters' true love. GA already did that with this couple in seasons 9-10. I'd also like it if April had a storyline outside of her romance with Jackson and motherhood, maybe something professional.

Arizona gets a love interest and has more of a storyline. I loved her storyline with Dr. Herman in season 11 and I like her relationship with Alex.

Camilla Luddington digs deep and is more believable as a person who bounced around in foster care as a child, lived in a car as a teenager, escaped from a physically abusive marriage, put herself through a prestigious college and med school, and is a surgical resident. The actress is very beautiful and charming, has great chemistry with Justin Chambers, but is not at all convincing as someone who is emotionally damaged and in a career that requires intellectual strength. If the actress is up to the challenge, Jo and Alex's storyline would be very moving. There is a great deal of drama in it, having to do with domestic abuse and the fact that Jo has kept this major secret from Alex who already has major trust issues. It will be great to see Alex in a meaty storyline and to have Meredith be there for Alex in the way that he has been there for her since Derek died. I really hope that Meredith and Alex never become a romantic couple. I like that they totally get one another and are there for each other. They clearly love each other deeply, and it's nice that the show gives value to other forms of love not just romantic love.

The children in the show are featured more. Currently, they serve as plot points to show movement in the romantic entanglements of the characters. When the children do appear in scenes, they are more like props than characters. The show has had many good child actors and moving stories with children in the medical storylines. The Callie v. Arizona, Kramer v. Kramer, episode would have been much more moving and emotionally satisfying had they shown the relationships that each mother had with Sophia. And seriously, where are Meredith's children when she's at home? Where do they sleep? She has three young children and three adults who live at her house? Is it like Flowers in the Attic? Joking. I know that Grey's isn't a family drama, but the major, long established characters are in their mid-thirties to forties. A lot of the life humor, charm and drama of the early seasons came from the fact that the group of interns/residents who were Meredith's friends and peers were finding their ways in their careers and in their romantic lives, which is what people do in their twenties. Now that they are established adults, more of the fun slice of life stuff comes from family life and children factor in that. I really doubt that this will happen but I wish it would.

Megan does not ever show up or appear. She is truly dead. If she appears out of the blue having had amnesia or been a hostage of some Middle Eastern terrorist group, it will be too soapy! It already pushes the bounds of credulity that Meredith had an unknown sister who was the love child of her mother and Webber who happens to be a top notch surgeon and lands a job at the hospital where Meredith works. Grey's Anatomy is so good at the authentic drama that it doesn't need the soapy shtick.

The show continues to feature episodes that are outside of its customary medical procedural structure. These episodes have been some of the most dramatically satisfying with longer scenes. These episodes have delved deeper into the characters and given the actors a chance to show their talent.

I agree with a lot of your points, but not quite the bolded.  To be fair to Camilla Luddington, I imagine that its hard to really sink your teeth into the motivations of a character when the writers clearly haven't gotten a full grasp of the character themselves.  I thought that she did a good job in season 9 with the Jason arc and I believed her as a damaged woman who has overcome a lot.  But since then, she has alternated between generic, chirpy girlfriend with absolutely no glimmers of any kind of past, beyond the little tidbits here and there that were laid out as comic relief and then completely dropped.  When she did address something it was with the same line over and over again ("I lived in my car!!!!!") and any situation where she could have bonded with other characters in a way that would show and not tell her story were ignored.  Finally, they spring the husband thing on us (and most likely CL) in the last episode of the second season of her being ignored and not only is it completely soapy and melodramatic, but it also contradicts personality traits that were established mere episodes before.  So yeah, its not surprising that she can't always pull off exactly what the writers are going for, and that is more on them than her, IMO.  Some of the actors on the show can absolutely elevate the material that is given to them, but those are usually the actors that have been around awhile and whose characters were established before they had to share screentime and focus with 30 other people and before the writing took a complete nosedive.  I think that if the writers can pick a a lane and give her something semi-realistic and thoughtful enough to work with that she may be able to turn it around.  Of course that is a BIG if.  I hope that everyone involved can do this story justice.  Its a serious subject, its been a long time coming and the actors involved deserve to have something meaty like everyone else.  Besides all of that, its really the only thing that is getting me to turn in this season.

As for the kids.  I have no interest in seeing the ones already spawned, nor do I want to see any additions, much as I would love to see Alex as a father.  That can come in the last few episodes as far as I"m concerned.  
 

Quote

 

I don't think Maggie/Riggs/Mer will face a triangle. I still maintain they're ultimately going to link with Maggie with Alex. They've shown little interest in Jo for seasons and I feel the marriage storyline will just serve as the final nail in the Jolex coffin. Maggie on the other hand is a clear writers/Shonda favourite and I think linking her with an original is exactly where they'll go next. 

 

I think that if Alex is going to be paired up with anyone other than Jo, it will be Meredith, but I am praying to the Grey's gods that won't happen.  

Quote

Deanie, it's been too long - as always I love to hear your thoughts on these things.

Thanks!  Here's hoping there will be lots of good stuff to talk about in season 13!

Edited August 19, 2016 by Deanie87
To make it less non-sensical!

[Chas411]

Deanie, it's been too long - as always I love to hear your thoughts on these things.

[stopthestatic]

They need to bring in more family members again.

Alex's sister should be introduced. Bring back Thatcher. Show us Maggie's parents.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, stopthestatic said:

They need to bring in more family members again.

Alex's sister should be introduced. Bring back Thatcher. Show us Maggie's parents.

Personally, I would really like to meet Maggie's adoptive parents--not only because what little we know about them sounds like they are fun people, but also I think it would be an interesting dynamic when you throw Richard into the mix.

[mdw]

On July 8, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Scatterbrained said:

Someone here mentioned that they feel this cast is bloated and I tend to agree.  Going forward, I hope they hold back on introducing even more characters.  I know that Sarah Drew was initially only supposed to be there for two episodes and then be gone forever, but they liked her acting and kept her on.  My theory is that they may hire a bunch of people and then see who "sticks".  I am guessing that when the series was created, Shonda (& co.) may have had specific ideas about each character, how that character related to other characters, and just exactly how their stories would go.  Then they cast the person they thought was the perfect embodiment of that character.  Given the backstage dramas of yore causing characters to leave before their stories (as initially planned) were told, I feel that they now keep the cast members who are the easier individuals to work with and who mesh best with the other members of the cast when the cameras are not rolling.  Also, the show has lasted longer than anyone probably planned.  So, the original characters have probably outlived whatever their originally conceived storylines were.  When Cristina told Meredith, "You became what we never saw coming" that felt very meta to me.

 

I am interested to see what they do with Webber's character going forward.  To be honest, I've never been a hardcore Grey's fan.  I've watched it on an off over the years. I've liked his character, but haven't always liked the major storylines they've given him.  I've fast forwarded through those parts, so I probably stand to be corrected in some of my speculative thoughts, but here they are anyway.  He seems like a man who watches and waits and, in his early life, hesitated before making decisions.  In my own personal life, I like to say that there are times when you are given choices where neither one is ideal.  In that situation, you aren't so much deciding which is the better choice, you are ultimately deciding what is the right regret.  I think he may have a similar mindset.  At least when he chose his wife over Ellis.  Now, with the perspective that time provides and additional information being presented (bio-daughter!) he may realize that he chose the wrong regret.  

 

The question is, what will he do about all of that now?  I don't know if fatherhood was something he really wanted back then, or is something he wishes he had done now that he looks back on his life, but currently he has a bio-daughter in his life, a step-son with an absentee father in his life, and the daughter of his former love in his life (and she also has an absentee father).  There are now four kids in need of a grandpa.  How cute would it be if he stepped into this role?  I would love to see a scene where he is baby wearing baby Japril or pulling Mer's kids in a wagon to go to storytime or something.  All that aside, I feel like he's been watching and waiting and somewhat hesitating with Mer, Maggie, and Jackson (particularly the last two).  I would like to see him be more assertive and involved in a relationship with them and I feel that maybe that's what they've been building up to.  Especially when we've seen him tell Arizona to fight for her child and Jackson to step up and co-parent with April.  He's already fought for and won a second, or third chance at a great love and partnership with Catherine.  Now let's see him go for it with other familial roles.

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of the characters did not have fathers growing up. Meredith, Alex, Jackson, & Izzy had dads that ran out on them or weren't around. Cristina, Derek, and Amelia had dads who died during childhood. Meredith and Calzona's kids also lost their dads in tragic circumstances.

The only characters coming from traditional two-parent homes that I can think of are George, April, Arizona and Callie. George and April were kind of odd ducks in their families who didn't fit in. They also were kind of the odd ducks in their resident groups. Callie seemed to have had a good relationship with her parents when she was a child up to the point when she came out and they rejected her. Arizona and Maggie seem to be part of a small group who had nurturing, accepting families growing up and seem fairly well-adjusted.

A lot of the characters also have complicated, difficult relationships with their mothers. 

There's probably a theme about parent/child relationships but can not yet think of what it is.

As far as Webber goes, I hope that they develop his relationship with Maggie and Jackson further too. I can think of a couple of scenes where he takes a fatherly role with Jackson in the scene that you mentioned when he tells Jackson to step up now that Jackson knows April's pregnant and also in season 9 when he's telling Catherine that she may have put Jackson in a situation that may be over his head by making him the Harper Avery Foundation's representative on the GSMH board. I think Webber has made some tentative efforts to have a relationship with Maggie. I agree with you. Hopefully this will develop more.

Webber was kind of a father figure of the show in the early seasons. During these early seasons when the show was more focused on Meredith, George, Izzie, Cristina & Alex, it seemed to me that Webber was kind of the distant powerful father figure that everyone looked up to and that Bailey was the tough mama who pushed her "kids," called it like it is, and wouldn't put up with any crap from them. In the later seasons after Owen becomes chief and now that Bailey is chief, sometimes Webber  seems like the wise grandpa.

I liked Webber's relationship with Meredith in the alternative reality episode when Meredith dreams what life would be like if her mom never had Alzheimer's and married Webber.

It would be cute if he takes on a Grandpa's role with April and Jackson's child.

As far as the size of the cast, sometimes I wish that they would give newer characters more of a supporting role in a more streamlined number of stories. I've been catching up on the last three seasons of GA this summer. At times during the run of this show, I have stopped watching it and will come back to it later. I fast forward through the scenes of SL's that I'm not interested in. For example, I've enjoyed watching scenes of Meredith's relationship with Amelia but forward through the most of the rest of Amelia's scenes. I haven't really cared for the scenes from the sl btwn Derek and Amelia in season 11 but maybe I'll have to go back and watch them. I don't know.

[apn85]

44 minutes ago, mdw said:

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of the characters did not have fathers growing up. Meredith, Alex, Jackson, & Izzy had dads that ran out on them or weren't around. Cristina, Derek, and Amelia had dads who died during childhood. Meredith and Calzona's kids also lost their dads in tragic circumstances.

Yes! They've exhausted that angle as far as I am concerned. Even the children on there now, the ONLY one that even has a possibility of having their parents together is Jackson and April's baby. Zola, Bailey, and Ellis - Father deceased. Sofia - Father deceased. Mothers are separated. 

I am sure not saying one parent homes aren't good homes, they certainly can be, but geez that one has been told so much it's almost like don't become a Father on Grey's.......you'll be dead by season end! Ok, maybe I am exaggerating, but if I was Jackson I'd be nervous. 

[mdw]

5 hours ago, apn85 said:

 

I am sure not saying one parent homes aren't good homes, they certainly can be, but geez that one has been told so much it's almost like don't become a Father on Grey's.......you'll be dead by season end! Ok, maybe I am exaggerating, but if I was Jackson I'd be nervous. 

LOL

[Eolivet]

On 8/18/2016 at 10:14 AM, Deanie87 said:

But since then, she has alternated between generic, chirpy girlfriend with absolutely no glimmers of any kind of past, beyond the little tidbits here and there that were laid out as comic relief and then completely dropped.  When she did address something it was with the same line over and over again ("I lived in my car!!!!!") and any situation where she could have bonded with other characters in a way that would show and not tell her story were ignored.  

That's a good point. I don't like Jo, and like mdw, I don't believe her as someone who had a bad childhood. It could definitely be writing, but the actress has always struck me as too polished and pretty -- but not in a Heigl way. Jo needed a "Bethany Whispers" scene for her character development, because I see no inherent toughness or even inherent fragility (put it this way: I'd believe Penny lived in her car more than I believe Jo did). It's as if the people who could connect with actual adverse childhood experiences, who (to me) beautifully fleshed out the childhood conflicts of Cristina, Izzie, Meredith and Alex, all left, and we're stuck with writers who watched soap operas or rom-coms with the plucky little heroine-that-could, and used that as their model.

I frequently sing the praises of this show's casting department -- I usually think they are great, even for the most insignificant characters. But I just find this casting such a disconnect with what we're supposed to think about the character. Is it writing? Styling? Acting? All of the above?

I hope Jo comes back messier this season, and I mean that in every way. That she's either overly polished to the point of cracking or she's clearly in a dark place, being held together by (as Bailey once said) "tape and glue." But they'd better not write an abusive relationship for Jo with all the emotional intensity of "You guuuuuys, this is really haaaaaard for me."

On another note: anybody heard the rumor that Sandra Oh is making an appearance this season? TVLine comments had some speculation about it in a blind item, but no source was listed.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Eolivet
"making an appearance" not the same as "returning." I don't expect Cristina to return until she's cured death.

[Pinecone]

On August 18, 2016 at 6:09 PM, stopthestatic said:

They need to bring in more family members again.

Alex's sister should be introduced. Bring back Thatcher. Show us Maggie's parents.

They've never cared about elaborating on Alex's childhood and family except for Shonda's usual "foster care, rough upbringing, you know" lack detailed lip service to the background she supposedly made up. But there's a lot of material there about responsibility, siblings, fear of inherited mental illness, and caregiver stress that could be mined. So yeah, bring on the sister! 

Maggie's mom would be fun since she torched her marriage with her affair with the mechanic that lead to the divorce. She and Richard could have some awkwardness. 

[Nobodysfan]

On 17. 8. 2016 at 7:03 PM, mdw said:

Maybe the actor means he likes the idea of playing a character who is in the middle of a love triangle, not that he means that he thinks Nathan should date both at the same time. Love triangles, unrequited love, romantic misunderstandings, and all of that are the bread and butter of romantic comedies and soapy romantic dramas.

 

I think that Maggie has a crush on him and it's more like puppy love. The character seems emotionally immature in terms of how she is in dating and romantic relationships. It seems like she doesn't have a lot of experience with being in relationships. She's also a romantic and is kind of innocent about love, which is sweet to me. I don't think Riggs was flirting with her in any of the scenes that I've seen. I think he would have asked her out if he were interested. He asked Meredith out early in the season when they were in the elevator.

Yes, I agree.

On 17. 8. 2016 at 7:30 PM, mdw said:

Maybe Christina will show up at the end of the episode - not at the wedding b/c that would be cheesy IMO. Or there will be news that she's coming to Seattle for a medical reason. This would be a good conflict!

I can't wait for the season premiere also. I have been catching up on seasons 10-12 this summer. I got frustrated with the show and stopped watching after the season 9 finale and the season 10 opener with the Arizona cheating story, Richard seems to die in a disaster scenario, Jackson rejects April and more will-they-won't-they drama. Then when I read that Cristina left and later that Derek died, I didn't think I'd watch it again. I didn't think it would be good - those two characters and, obviously, Meredith are the cornerstones of the show. But I have summers off - I'm a teacher - and I was looking for things to binge watch. Season 12 got really good reviews....and now I'm hooked!

I would take any of those reasons for her to come back, sadly, I believe Sandra will only come back for an arc for the series finale.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[Nobodysfan]

On 18. 8. 2016 at 10:16 AM, Chas411 said:

I don't think Maggie/Riggs/Mer will face a triangle. I still maintain they're ultimately going to link with Maggie with Alex. They've shown little interest in Jo for seasons and I feel the marriage storyline will just serve as the final nail in the Jolex coffin. Maggie on the other hand is a clear writers/Shonda favourite and I think linking her with an original is exactly where they'll go next. 

 

That way - instead of getting nothing with Jo. Alex can continue to be All About the Sisters.

Yes, I totally agree. I also see the storyline for Jo and Deluca, both actors have much more chemistry together , Camilla with Giacomo and Justin with Kelly.

I think they will switch these two couples this season.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[Nobodysfan]

On 19. 8. 2016 at 6:27 PM, Eolivet said:

That's a good point. I don't like Jo, and like mdw, I don't believe her as someone who had a bad childhood. It could definitely be writing, but the actress has always struck me as too polished and pretty -- but not in a Heigl way. Jo needed a "Bethany Whispers" scene for her character development, because I see no inherent toughness or even inherent fragility (put it this way: I'd believe Penny lived in her car more than I believe Jo did). It's as if the people who could connect with actual adverse childhood experiences, who (to me) beautifully fleshed out the childhood conflicts of Cristina, Izzie, Meredith and Alex, all left, and we're stuck with writers who watched soap operas or rom-coms with the plucky little heroine-that-could, and used that as their model.

I frequently sing the praises of this show's casting department -- I usually think they are great, even for the most insignificant characters. But I just find this casting such a disconnect with what we're supposed to think about the character. Is it writing? Styling? Acting? All of the above?

I hope Jo comes back messier this season, and I mean that in every way. That she's either overly polished to the point of cracking or she's clearly in a dark place, being held together by (as Bailey once said) "tape and glue." But they'd better not write an abusive relationship for Jo with all the emotional intensity of "You guuuuuys, this is really haaaaaard for me."

On another note: anybody heard the rumor that Sandra Oh is making an appearance this season? TVLine comments had some speculation about it in a blind item, but no source was listed.

I struggle with the writing for Jo, I have had struggles with the actress´s performance overall, but last season finale was good, she was good in it.

If only Sandra made an appearance this season. 

[BabyBBQKendall]

My conception of Alex wouldn't be able to put up with Maggie's childish babbling for more than two minutes, but the way he's been written lately...

[Chas411]

I hope not. I really hope not. Jolex have been ignored completely so it would be such an insult to their fans to have them just dropped. 

Especially don't want Alex with Maggie. He'll never get a storyline and she bugs me. I loved her at first before she started acting like a child all the time. Also she gets more screen time per episode then Jo and Alex have individually and together gotten in two series.

[Nobodysfan]

25 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

I hope not. I really hope not. Jolex have been ignored completely so it would be such an insult to their fans to have them just dropped. 

Especially don't want Alex with Maggie. He'll never get a storyline and she bugs me. I loved her at first before she started acting like a child all the time. Also she gets more screen time per episode then Jo and Alex have individually and together gotten in two series.

Yes, it would be an insult to Jolex fans, but my worry is that by putting Deluca amidst Jo and Alex and her sharing with him what she has not revealed to Alex, there is a reason because it could have been Stephanie she could have told her secret instead but writers put Deluca there. 

I think Rhimes has her favourites,and Maggie is one of them.

Didn´t McCreary say they will focus on originals this season or something like that? Richard is one of them, so Maggie will also get plenty of screentime by being his biological daughter, and her adoptive parents might arrive for a visit and how Richard will deal with it, but I do not think Alex will get a lot to do. 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[BabyBBQKendall]

I don't put much stock in what KMK said about focusing on the originals- if you look at the interviews taken at this point last year, most of what they said about S12 turned out to pertain to the first few episodes only. And the actors don't seem to be told much about much, anyway. Maybe they'll get the spotlight for an episode or two, but I find it hard to believe we're really going to see much more of Alex, Bailey or Richard this year.

Edited August 22, 2016 by BabyBBQKendall

[Nobodysfan]

One month away from the premiere.

They are furnishing OA´s home.  How time flies, I remember when the set decorator posted photos from Crowen´s house. Nothing is as it used to be. 

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[mdw]

14 hours ago, Pinecone said:

They've never cared about elaborating on Alex's childhood and family except for Shonda's usual "foster care, rough upbringing, you know" lack detailed lip service to the background she supposedly made up. But there's a lot of material there about responsibility, siblings, fear of inherited mental illness, and caregiver stress that could be mined. So yeah, bring on the sister! 

Maggie's mom would be fun since she torched her marriage with her affair with the mechanic that lead to the divorce. She and Richard could have some awkwardness. 

I disagree with this, with respect. There was a very moving arc in season 10 with Alex's father who, on a side note, was perfectly cast by James Remar. These episodes had a number of scenes that directly shed light on why Alex was the way he was at the beginning of the series and how great his development has been  over the 12 years. There was another episode in season 7 where Alex initiates having sex with April and, when she tells him to slow down as it would have been her 1st time, leaves. Alex has a conversation with Meredith in which he tells her that he had just come back from returning home to check his schizophrenic brother into a mental hospital. There was an episode in season 6 (I think), where the brother appears and fills in background information about Alex's childhood. This background fits with who the character was shown to be through the script writing and through Justin Chambers's portrayal in seasons 1-4. It fits with the way Alex was in his early relationships with women. His being drawn to Rebecca, a woman with mental illness, and his being accepting of Izzy's hallucinations of Denny before he knew they were related to her having a tumor are the examples that come to mind to illustrate this. Alex's work relationship with Arizona who is his mentor and deepening friendships with Meredith and Cristina in seasons 5-8 combined with his development as a surgeon help move him towards becoming one of the most, stable and emotionally supportive characters by seasons 11-12.

[Chas411]

Quote

ealed to Alex, there is a reason because it could have been Stephanie she could have told her secret instead not Deluca. 

I think this was done to set up the finale act of Alex beating the crap out of DeLuca. jo confiding to Steph would be too simple.

[mdw]

7 hours ago, BabyBBQKendall said:

I don't put much stock in what KMK said about focusing on the originals- if you look at the interviews taken at this point last year, most of what they said about S12 turned out to pertain to the first few episodes only. And the actors don't seem to be told much about much, anyway. Maybe they'll get the spotlight for an episode or two, but I find it hard to believe we're really going to see much more of Alex, Bailey or Richard this year.

I predict we'll see a lot of Alex's story this year as it relates to Jo's past and the fact that she wasn't honest with him about her past or her identity. However, for fans of the couple, it will turn out to be one of those situations of "Be careful of what you wish for." Jackson and April's conflict was set up in the season 11 finale. They had a major story arc, but if you're a fan of the couple, which I am, it was sad to watch. Up until episode 19, their trajectory was toward dissolution and irreconcilation.

[mdw]

7 hours ago, Chas411 said:

I think this was done to set up the finale act of Alex beating the crap out of DeLuca. jo confiding to Steph would be too simple.

I agree with this that her telling Deluca is a plot device. She'll most likely have to tell Alex about her past to explain why Deluca was there and to stop Alex from beating him up.

I hope that there is some consequence that Alex faces for beating Deluca the way that it's shown in the finale. Unless he thought Deluca was raping Jo, there really isn't any justification for someone to get that out of control.

[Chas411]

I don't know while I can see my be one or two characters giving him crap for his actions I reckon the rest (Meredith namely) will just blame Jo because she LIED and Alex hates that because he's had a bad childhood.

 

i mean that seems to be the main message of the storyline so far. Not that Jo is actually the victim of domestic abuse and was rendered so terrified that she felt she had to change her name and delete her past. No the real point is that she lied rendering her unworthy of Alex and finally giving Meredith (and various Jolex, jo haters) an actual solid reason  to say she's not good enough for Alex.

[windsprints]

I'm going to see how it plays out. I can see that initially it may be all about Jo lying but at some point it will have to come out why she lied.  At that point I expect the story will be at least somewhat sympathetic to her. Its not like a person would run and completely change their identity unless they were legitimately fearful.

I have no issue with Alex being pissed off at first that she didn't tell him. They've been together for years now and marriage and their future has been on the table for quite awhile now. At the very least she could have told him she never wanted to marry (even if she didn't initially fully disclose why) but still wanted a future with him instead of just having the ring sitting in a drawer saying nothing.

I'm really looking forward to the storyline.  It has potential to portray both of their POVs where their motivations are understandable, has plenty of drama and great material for the actors yet leaves a believable path for them to come together in the end. I'm hoping that Meredith is mainly off with Nathan now and having her sister triangle and her involvement is a few of her snotty, righteous comments and her involvement is limited.