Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Cloud9Shopper]

How do you guys handle talking money and finances with family? And what would you have said in response to this comment?

Yesterday I went to an aunt’s house for a Christmas meal. She was asking me how my new job was going, since I just got promoted last month. The conversation was going fine and I was telling her about some of the responsibilities and then she said “you got a raise right?” So I said yeah and then made a joke about how Christmas spending basically negated that since I had to spend a lot this month on gifts and other things (sweater for a work party, some decorations). She said “well I don’t feel any sympathy for you because you got a raise and I had to get my tires rotated, and pay a health insurance copay and for the dogs’ grooming…” Like basically just spitting in my face because she thinks I’m rich now and spending money was no worry to me while she has to suffer. I mean, in addition to Christmas spending I also had to restock some household products and the eczema cream I use for my hands. Those creams are not $3 or $4 a bottle. I’m not in poverty and on the brink of homelessness, and life is easier than it was this time last year when my pay was barely above $50K, but at the same time, my finances are not perfect. I’m still rebuilding credit (finally made it to a “good” score on the FICO scale but still have late payments and delinquencies and being on a debt management plan affecting me). My emergency fund is less than $1,000. I’m so far behind on retirement savings. I am not making as much as people on Reddit who are making six figure salaries and can walk off a job without notice because they have hefty emergency savings and retirement accounts to survive without a job. 

Anyway, what would you have said in response? I was just like oh…. when my aunt listed all her expenses and told me I wasn’t having a hard time. This is my mom’s sister so I may tell my mom what she said and ask what I should do. I don’t think I owe a family member I’m not overly close to a breakdown of my monthly spending. I mean the other day I also had to pay a telehealth service for a prescription because my specialist doctor has really limited office hours over Christmas and no one has returned my call to schedule an appointment so he can renew it. (It’s not an emergency so I’m fine waiting, but yeah my life wasn’t all rosy in December either!) 

How can I deal with such conversations in the future? 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Cloud9Shopper

[SoMuchTV]

35 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

How can I deal with such conversations in the future? 

"Yup, things are tough all over.  Did you make that casserole?  It's yummy."

I mean, you told her about some expenses you had, and she told you about some of hers.  I don't know your family dynamics so I could be totally off base, but I'd just move on.  And know in the future to proactively steer any conversations with her away from finances.

[Absolom]

I agree something non-committal and a new subject.  It isn't like she point blank asked you how much you're making.  Some people are just a little clueless like that in how you might take it.  My daughter's in-laws have several people like that and I frequently see them around holidays.  That's nice or I'm sorry and a new topic seem to slide along a lot easier than engaging or even thinking about it.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I am not making as much as people on Reddit who are making six figure salaries and can walk off a job without notice because they have hefty emergency savings and retirement accounts to survive without a job. 

You have enough problems with your own family.  The last thing you need is Reddit people.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

…How can I deal with such conversations in the future? 

4 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

in the future to proactively steer any conversations with her away from finances.

Yep!
Like: Have you heard the weather report?
Asking it as a question,
rather than stating something like: "I heard it's supposed to snow"
should get her brain off the "poor me" track for at least a few minutes. 

I'm guessing your Mom told your aunt that you were "finally" doing a bit better, and that triggered some sibling rivalry within your aunt. 
You aunt may have wanted to make you feel bad as a proxy for making her sister feel bad.
Or something like that. 

But if you want to use your aunt to practice being better at dealing with difficult people, you could just say stuff like:  “Oh, that sounds really difficult.” 

Regardless: Do not offer any money to your aunt!

This bit caught my attention:

4 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I had to…pay…for the dogs’ grooming…”

My wealthy sister sometimes goes off on tangents about her "poor" daughter, who has countless pets, including farm animal pets, including a miniature pony. 
One time I responded with: I can't afford a pet.
My sister just said: What? And looked at me like I was crazy. 
And dropped the subject of her daughter's finances and how much she had to spend on the animals.😉

I'd be so tempted to tell your aunt about someone I (really did) know who washed her dog in the bathtub with baby shampoo. 
But don't go there. 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2024 by shapeshifter

[Mindthinkr]

46 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Regardless: Do not offer any money to your aunt!

Excellent advice. 

@Cloud9Shopper

If she asks for money or a loan have an excuse handy like: I’m sorry, it’s already earmarked for some bills I have due.  

[Absolom]

I wouldn't even go earmarked.  I'd be more definite like I have no spare money or even my budget is overextended.  You will never have extra money or savings in family hearing again.

[Browncoat]

Or just say, "I'm sorry, I can't."  Repeat as needed.

[EtheltoTillie]

I had a busybody aunt who used to ask about money all the time.  How much were we making how much did our house cost etc.  Ridiculous no boundary person. I just said no you shouldn’t ask those questions and we won’t answer.  I had to just be straightforward as I didn’t want to continue. 

When people don’t respect norms, they do not merit polite treatment, esp. since they don’t respond to it. 
@Cloud9Shopper after your aunt asked did you get a raise the answer should have been I don’t discuss finances. The end. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

Keep practicing. 

[Ancaster]

On 12/15/2024 at 6:58 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I just got a text from my daughter. She is coming for Christmas dinner at 5pm on the 25th. Actually I’m good with this. They’re going to spend breakfast with their other Grandparents [the Ex’s parents coincidentally who both my kid and I spent Thanksgiving with….(He has insisted on remaining with his mistress who neither his parents or the kids, whom have met her multiple times, wants to spend any holiday with)   So I’m a making a lasagna. My child wanted to know what a to bring so I said garlic bread as it can be as easy or as hard as she’s chooses to make it. First Christmas together in ages (tho we have done Eves) so I’m grateful. 

I don't understand this sentence - he's insisted on staying with his mistress despite what?  His children/parents saying he should dump her?  How is it their right to dictate his relationships?  What am I missing?

How difficult/complicated can garlic bread be?

9 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

You have enough problems with your own family.  The last thing you need is Reddit people.

People actually make life decisions based on what people on Reddit say?  I'm obviously too sheltered in my on-line life.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Ancaster

[Mindthinkr]

11 hours ago, Ancaster said:

On 12/15/2024 at 9:58 PM, Mindthinkr said:

Expand  

I don't understand this sentence - he's insisted on staying with his mistress despite what?  His children/parents saying he should dump her?  How is it their right to dictate his relationships?  What am I missing?

 

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. After 18 years of marriage he was unfaithful. Despite his wife and family finding out about his mistress, he refused to let her go or give a divorce to my daughter. My daughter tried everything (counseling, mediation) to work their union out, but he wanted to keep both a wife and a mistress. Finally the court system allowed her a divorce after 4 years. His parents do not like the other woman. To them she broke up a marriage and wasn’t kind to his children. So it broke up the family. They never had an issue with my child. She remained faithful, never stopped allowing our grandchildren to visit them liberally, supported his Mom through breast cancer, and remained a dutiful daughter in law. 
   You are correct. Parents should not dictate what his relationship should be, but they have old school values and don’t approve of how he conducted himself or his gadding about town. 
   Are you saying that his parents should dump my daughter and grandchildren in favor of the mistress because that’s who he chooses to be with now? 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

. Finally the court system allowed her a divorce after 4 years.

So, not in California.

[Dimity]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear.

I  thought you were clear.  Mistress is not a term used when one is in a relationship and both people are unmarried.  Using that word indicated to me exactly what you went on to explain for Ancaster's benefit.  

And may I add what a total and complete jerk!  And while, of course, parents can't dictate the actions of their adult children they do get to decide who is and is not welcome in their own home.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Dimity

[Dimity]

On the subject of families - when do you get to stop being the easy going one?  It's a role I fell into within my family years ago.  But today I just feel like being the sulky baby of the family dammit!  I thought I had plans with my sister and two cousins to go out today.    Anyway I texted my sister a while ago and they left without me. 

She claims I never firmed up anything but I have text messages that say otherwise.

I do live off the beaten track and they would have had to detour to come and get me as I am without transportation at the moment. 

But here I go again making excuses and deciding not to rock the boat when I am actually really annoyed.

I want to make a scene but I know me, I won't.  But I want to!

[Absolom]

I would express my hurt to her and request next time if she's unclear to please text or call me to avoid this happening again.  I'd lean on the so sad not to have gotten to see you/be with you.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I would express my hurt to her and request next time if she's unclear to please text or call me to avoid this happening again.  I'd lean on the so sad not to have gotten to see you/be with you.

And maybe throw in a few words about how maybe she didn't see your texts, but still, in the future, please reach out.

[Ancaster]

8 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. After 18 years of marriage he was unfaithful. Despite his wife and family finding out about his mistress, he refused to let her go or give a divorce to my daughter. My daughter tried everything (counseling, mediation) to work their union out, but he wanted to keep both a wife and a mistress. Finally the court system allowed her a divorce after 4 years. His parents do not like the other woman. To them she broke up a marriage and wasn’t kind to his children. So it broke up the family. They never had an issue with my child. She remained faithful, never stopped allowing our grandchildren to visit them liberally, supported his Mom through breast cancer, and remained a dutiful daughter in law. 
   You are correct. Parents should not dictate what his relationship should be, but they have old school values and don’t approve of how he conducted himself or his gadding about town. 
   Are you saying that his parents should dump my daughter and grandchildren in favor of the mistress because that’s who he chooses to be with now? 

No, of course not - on the contrary.

Thanks for the explanation.  Sorry if you've gone into this here before; I have a brain like a sieve, made worse by long Covid.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Ancaster

[Dimity]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And maybe throw in a few words about how maybe she didn't see your texts, but still, in the future, please reach out.

You and @Absolom  gave excellent advice and helped me calm down.  Thanks so much!

[oliviabenson]

reddit and it's posts are like 90% fiction imo. it does feel like most who post there are trolls/fake.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, oliviabenson said:

reddit and it's posts are like 90% fiction imo. it does feel like most who post there are trolls/fake.

Yeah.  Especially here.  I know that Asian parents can be strict, but some are just way, OTT.  And considering that the posters claim to be in their late teens or early 20s, their parents would likely be GenXers.  GenXers aren't crazy strict like that.

[Bastet]

My parents have been exhausting me lately, for some reasons they can't control and some they can, but this was cute:

I'm in Los Angeles, which is overwhelmed by fires right now.  Last night's Santa Ana winds were worse than any I'd experienced (I think there were stronger gusts about 15 years ago, but not such a sustained time of strong gusts) and the fires feel like they're everywhere and we're constantly worrying "Where next?"  In a twist from the norm, I'm closer to more fires than my parents - who live in the hills while I'm in the foothills, and decently far down at that - but I'm fine in terms of fire danger -- just horrible smoke that these damn winds are not dissipating.  The wind damage was not structural, just some stuff breaking in the backyard.  But despite being less than 10 miles apart, I always get more wind (and rain, if we have it) than them, sometimes to a significant degree, so when weather goes berserk, it happens here.

Late this afternoon, I get a call on my home office line from my dad's cell phone.  He uses his cell even less than I do (which is not much!), so I immediately worry he's calling from/en route to the ER because of something with my mom.  Nope, he says he had an errand nearby and figured he'd come make sure everything is okay; he's in the driveway and all looks good, but let him know if I need his help with anything before he heads home.

My dad avoids running errands like the plague unless necessary (meaning a "Hey, if you're going to X, can you stop by Y and get blah-blah" habit, to which we may or may not say yes depending on mood).  If he needed a hardware store, drugstore, grocery store, etc. there are closer options.  His dentist is a couple of miles from me, but he just had his cleaning a couple of weeks ago (and always makes morning appointments, so even if he had a follow up it wouldn't be at 3:00).  I really think he decided instead of just calling to confirm all was well, he needed to see it because this is such an odd and disconcerting situation, but didn't want to be as obtrusive as knocking.

Edited January 9 by Bastet

[EtheltoTillie]

Hoping you and your folks stay safe, @Bastet

[meep.meep]

Hope you have your go bags packed and an idea of where to go if you have to get out.  It looks dreadful.  I've been bitching about all the rain we've had in Nor Cal but I'm glad to not be in your shoes.

[Mindthinkr]

More than ever “Go bags” are essential. Whether it’s a hurricane, tornado, wildfire or flooding, it pays to be prepared. Make sure you take your animals (with a weeks worth of their food), proof of insurance, medications, and any other important documents. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

My mom is exhausting me and I feel like she does not care about my feelings. Basically, I have been dog sitting and house sitting for the last week and a half while she and my stepdad are on a 12-night cruise. Things were starting to get hard the last few nights but otherwise weren’t terrible until today when she told me their ship had to go back to evacuate someone who is having a medical emergency and needs to go to a hospital. Now their ship will be delayed returning. While I get nobody planned this, I feel like she is not even paying attention to or caring about how much extra stress this has me under.

In addition to my responsibilities at her house, I am also really busy at work. We have a blackout period this week so nobody in my department can take time off. The original plan was that they would be coming home Thursday afternoon and I would work an early shift (my boss OKed my working early), go back to my own house, unpack and set my office up for my Friday shift. Maybe sleep in Friday morning before work to take care of myself and decompress. Now she has no idea when the ship will be returning, and she will not listen to me at all when I express anxiety and tell her how much I miss being home and need to be home and back with my cat. All she said is that I need to hang in there for her. Excuse me? Sorry Mom, a big F you to you. And she knows there are periods at work I have blackout time and that are more stressful. I have no help with these dogs or the house to make everything worse and am still trying to get good at my own new job and juggle a higher workload. I also may have to buy extra dog food. 

Meanwhile she is on a cruise ship being entertained and getting everything taken care of for her and having a grand old time. I’m sure she is sleeping fine in her stateroom too. I am at home alone, stressed at work, crying from not being able to be at my house, dealing with a dog who wakes up in the middle of the night after I’ve only been asleep for three hours and she wants to act like she has it hard? What about me? Where is sympathy for the fact that I now can’t go home according to my plan? Why doesn’t she care about how this is negatively affecting my work and life? I have been away from my cat and house for almost two weeks and now may have to stay stuck in her house even longer. All she can do is shrug and say oh well a promotion comes with more work. Yeah no kidding. Right now I cannot properly decompress after work! I can’t even get uninterrupted sleep! On top of vacation time not being a possibility this week. Meanwhile I am sure my coworkers at least get to relax in their own homes, have a good night’s rest in their own bed; and aren’t dealing with family members who don’t care about how stressed they are during a busy time at work. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:20 AM by Cloud9Shopper

[shapeshifter]

41 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

…I am at home alone, stressed at work, crying from not being able to be at my house, dealing with a dog who wakes up in the middle of the night after I’ve only been asleep for three hours…

Is there a dog kennel your Mom has ever used where you could drop the dogs off and not have to pay because they would presume your Mom would pay when she gets home?

[Cloud9Shopper]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is there a dog kennel your Mom has ever used where you could drop the dogs off and not have to pay because they would presume your Mom would pay when she gets home?

Unfortunately no. Even when she is home they don’t go to doggy daycare or boarding while she’s working. They just stay home alone until my stepdad gets home. (They work opposite shifts.) My one dog also cannot be around unfamiliar dogs; she even doeen’t like human strangers until she gets to know them. 

[isalicat]

18 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Unfortunately no. Even when she is home they don’t go to doggy daycare or boarding while she’s working. They just stay home alone until my stepdad gets home. (They work opposite shifts.) My one dog also cannot be around unfamiliar dogs; she even doeen’t like human strangers until she gets to know them. 

There are professional dog sitters out there that come to your house as many times a day as needed (and a marvelous system of people that actually housesit/petsit your place in exchange for a free place to stay) that your mother should investigate for future trips. It sounds like you are not in a good place to be providing her pet sitting anymore so bring this up next time any vacation plans are being broached in your presence.

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, isalicat said:

There are professional dog sitters out there that come to your house as many times a day as needed (and a marvelous system of people that actually housesit/petsit your place in exchange for a free place to stay) that your mother should investigate for future trips.

@Cloud9Shopper,
Can you tell your mom So-and-so Pet-sitter is going to check on Doggie, and you can only afford to pay for once a day. Does she want to hire them to come X times per day for $$?