S02.E04: Honeymoons

[SaucyMommy]

I don't think Ryan D is capable of respect for any woman at this stage in his life. It wouldn't matter who it is.

[okerry]

SaucyMommy - I think you're saying that if these people are the type who would go so far as to marry a total stranger in the first place, then we should not be surprised that they'd have sex with that total stranger on the first night as well. In for a penny, in for a pound. When you've already gone that far, why stop? I see what you're saying.

 

Now, Cortney/Jason and Davina/Sean all had physical attraction but did say they actually wanted to wait to get to know each other before sex. But Jamie and Jaclyn simply didn't like the guys they were matched with, so that's why they waited.

 

Now I'm curious to know whether or not Jamie and Jaclyn, too, would have waited for sex if they'd found their grooms to be hot and attractive.

 

This really is a fascinating topic to me. Never seen it played out in a story the way it is on this show.

Edited April 10, 2015 by okerry

[CindyBee]

I don't think Ryan D is capable of respect for any woman at this stage in his life. It wouldn't matter who it is.

 

Yeah and I still don't know why he thought being on a show where you have to get married was a good thing.   Guess he did it to (1) be on TeeVee and (2) brag to his boys that he was on TeeVee.    I have a feeling as the season goes on, I'll be fast-forwarding during the remaining bits of Jessica/Ryan's journey as it just seems like really no point in watching it.

[shopper73]

Yes, the whole construct of this social experiment is off - the meeting with the experts after the 6 week trial means it is just a trial run, not a real marriage. I think there is also a lot missed by not going through the stages of a growing relationship that is generally provided when we date. I know there are those of you who do not like john gray, but he addresses the stages of a relationship in one of his books.

The wedding episode seemed to be a fairy tale experience and allowed the couples to bond artificially as a fantasy bride or groom, but there is a lot more to marriage of course.

The experts seem to be too forgiving of unstable personalities such as Ryan D or even Courtney fr last season, who seemed depressed to me.

[SaucyMommy]

Yep! That's what I'm saying Okerry! Exactly. I often wonder too what Jaime and Jaclyn would have done had they been more attracted to their grooms. Having seen a lot of Jaime though and understanding her history - I believe she would have waited. I haven't seen much of anything bout Jaclyn yet. Honestly - all three of these couples suck compared to last year.  They are much less likable individually and as couples.

[shopper73]

I agree that Jessica should have waited to sleep with Ryan and not get caught up in the fantasy of the ceremony making it feel right to sleep with him before she got to know him just a bit at least.

[Neurochick]

This makes me wonder, how people deal with arranged marriages.  I had a friend whose parents had an arranged marriage, I was surprised because they were pretty cool together.

[shopper73]

My understanding of arranged marriages means the goal is an appropriate marriage for family wealth and having babies, not love, though I am sure some couples do grow to love each other. I would think it would be expected to sleep together no matter what.

[MsPH]

I think you are missing the point of my post. I didn't say you should be ready the minute you meet them, but if you are going to marry a stranger - which come on MARRIAGE is about trust, respect, commitment, love, friendship - and this show is essentially making light of that whole concept, even though they remind us marriage is "serious". Sean told his mom on the first episode - he will just get a divorce if it doesn't work - no big whoop. In my eyes, and for many, the commitment of MARRIAGE is more serious than having sex with someone. So my point was if you are going to marry sight un-see it should be surprising to no one that these same people are having sex with these people hours after meeting and very little time to actually be in private together. 

 

I agree that marriage should be more serious than having sex, but then again, it is only a piece of paper at this point. Having sex is more intimate IMO. I just think there's no harm in waiting for any of them, so it would be the smartest move under the circumstances. So far it seems that the ones who rushed into sex are the ones who had the toughest time, but I don't know what is the cause and what is the effect. Perhaps the passionate and even volatile personalities are just the likeliest to have sex sooner rather than later. They are also likely to argue more than the calmer types.

[ElectricCityy]

Cortney and Jason waited about 3 days to have sex. He still respected Cortney and took their marriage seriously. He is a good guy. Vaughn and Ryan D are assholes. Vaughn would've still treated Monet badly had they not had sex because her personality annoyed him. Had he gotten that submissive wife he wanted, he would've been happy. I don't know what Ryan D's problem with Jessica is. She's been cute and harmless so far but somehow she doesn't deserve his respect.

[Snarklepuss]

I think what's wrong with this show is that it puts the cart before the horse.  In our society we expect that on the wedding night even if a couple has never had sex they will at the very least be in love and have more than a piece of paper committing them to each other.  On this show on the wedding night they're essentially having sex with a complete stranger, which, if you're not looking for love is no big whoop, but when you are it can often upset the natural evolution of a relationship.  In most cases you need to travel through point A to be ready for point B, etc.  I know I said my hubbie and I had sex on the first date, but actually I know it often doesn't work out when you do that because it creates physical intimacy before emotional commitment (I was young, that's my excuse, but I suppose my gut knew it was OK).  Just because these people have a piece of paper committing them to each other doesn't mean an emotional commitment will follow.  And if you add sex to that you have two carts before the horse.  Not good.  One is bad enough but two?  Very fraught with danger.  Plus it puts an inordinate amount of pressure on a couple to make an emotional commitment just because it would suck to have all the other things and not have that too.  That pressure can either make them fall apart or fantasize themselves into a fake love relationship - someone else said something similar yesterday.

[roamyn]

I don't think Ryan D is capable of respect for any woman at this stage in his life. It wouldn't matter who it is.

And a good indicator of that is he waited tor his mom to come up to HIM at the front (at the weddig), while both Sean & Ryan R walked over to their mothers to give them a kiss.

If a guy can't respect & honor his mother, I highly doubt he will with ANY wife.

[essexjan]

I think sex is likely to be a big problem for Sean and Davina.  When I saw them at the altar, beaming with delight and unable to stop kissing, I thought "they're doin' it tonight".  So I was surprised to hear her say on the honeymoon that she wants to wait until she's in love before she has sex with him. And we all know that's not happening any time soon. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if their marriage is never consummated.

 

Sean is a bit of a control freak/creep, and Davina is just an annoying, high-maintenance whiner. For me the most interesting part of their segment was learning that India has a ski team.

 

Jessica and Ryan are a hot mess. He's immature and selfish and she's trying to make the best of it, but girl, run, run fast and far away while you can.

 

I'm starting to like Jaclyn a lot more. She's been single a long while and I totally get that it's hard to go from long-term singledom to a level of intimacy with a person you barely know. I liked what she said about knowing she's got to let her guard down, but that she's scared to be vulnerable. But I think Ryan has the maturity to deal with that. Out of all the three men, he seems the one who is kind. And for me, kindness in a man outweighs hotness by a mile.

[cardigirl]

I don't think this show is making light of marriage. The premise is that 50% of marriages fail, so clearly falling in romantic love is no guarantee that your marriage will work. The idea that maybe we get in our own way of finding a good partner because of our notions about romantic love intrigues me.

These are legal marriages requiring a divorce if they choose not to continue, I think that's pretty serious.

I wish the experiment was longer than 5 weeks because I don't think that's a real test, but I'm enjoying watching all the same.

[Neurochick]

The idea that maybe we get in our own way of finding a good partner because of our notions about romantic love intrigues me.

 

 

I agree with that.  I think sometimes we do get in our own way, we get blinded by looks and what someone does for a living; essential things, what we should be concerned about, we can't see and too often, we don't care about, if that makes any sense.  

[MsPH]

I agree with that.  I think sometimes we do get in our own way, we get blinded by looks and what someone does for a living; essential things, what we should be concerned about, we can't see and too often, we don't care about, if that makes any sense.  

 

ITA. And we are spoilt for choice. It's so easy think there's always someone better out there. Someone who ticks more boxes. All these dating apps like Tinder make you think you have countless options at your fingertips. So people don't really take the time to get to know someone before they jump to the next, unless it's instant fireworks. And when it is, those fireworks easily blind you from the fact that you don't want the same things in life. That's what I like about this show, it forces you to get to know the other person, even when there are no fireworks right off the bat. And if at the end you feel there's any chance of a future together it's easier to just stay married than get a divorce. A simple breakup would be easier. That can work against them as well though. I fear Jessica will stay with Ryan Douchebag simply because she doesn't want to give up (the spotlight) and he keeps feeding her crumbs. I hope I'm wrong but we'll see.

[Kareem]

Last season, I had the six people pegged along with who would be together at the end by the first episode. This season, I'm all over the place. Liked Sean and Davina's wedding, Jaclin worked my last nerve, thought Ryan D. was serious about the "experiment", thought Jessica wanted to be married because her sister was in a relationship and thought the other Ryan was a nice guy.

Ryan R. IS a nice guy and I like his wit. I like watching this couple because she's so quick to laugh and while they have some things to work out, she seems fun to be around and not blind to the husband in the friend zone issue. These two actually seem to learn things about each other, like that she's nicer than the chick who knocked the drink out of his hand right after the vows, and that there's more to him than what she originally saw at the ceremony. WTG

Still trying to figure out Sean. Something off there. Dr. Doom Davina should've been matched with Kreskin, because he's the only one who might be able to figure out her mood swings. By the time she got to her lecture about what to do if she becomes emotional again, I was already feeling sorry for him. Gave him points for acknowledging her and offering to try harder. It was more than a certain other guy this season would do. At first I thought she was Salma Hayek-like, and nice that she called it a fairy tale. Now I wish she would just crack a smile... She often seems to be on the verge of a meltdown. Not a happy camper, that one.

Jessica is coming off more sweet than I expected her to be and it's unfortunate she was matched with Ryan Dbag. He seems to have gone from serious about marriage to miraculously turning into a 12-year-old at the start of the wedding dance. It's almost painful to watch those two. She wants it so bad she can taste it and he's looking for bra straps to snap in between trying to kill himself and/or her, and while complaining about her not being into his adventures. I agree with all who said RUN! If he can't handle a conversation about tattoos and piercings, what would he do if he disagreed with her about raising a child? Some ugly stuff going on with that boy. JMO

[Snarklepuss]

I agree with that.  I think sometimes we do get in our own way, we get blinded by looks and what someone does for a living; essential things, what we should be concerned about, we can't see and too often, we don't care about, if that makes any sense.  

 

I think that's why I think the way people used to meet in the "old days" was better.  Often, you met the person in your social group and knew them on a social level before you decided how you felt about them.  I have said I had sex with my husband on the first date and knew he was "the one" right away, but what I didn't say is that I knew him beforehand peripherally.  He was by best female friend's boyfriend's best friend.  I was young enough that I would often go out with groups of friends, and he was often in the group.  We were both too shy to interact with each other much, but of course after several months of feeling very strongly that we were a match, our friends wanted to set us up on a date.  Well, after all that exposure to him I was able to look past a whole lot of peripheral stuff to see what was important about him so by the time we had our first date, I actually knew a whole lot about him.  I can see how meeting someone this way might make people less picky about surface stuff.  If I had not had that exposure to him before we dated I might not have gotten past a few surface things to even go on that first date with him.

[Passthepopcorn]

My understanding of arranged marriages means the goal is an appropriate marriage for family wealth and having babies, not love, though I am sure some couples do grow to love each other. I would think it would be expected to sleep together no matter what.

And ideally, it is a marriage picked by your parents, whom in traditional cultures, are the most respected people in your life. There's this respect for the wisdom of the elders, they know you more than anybody else, and families are the center of everything. It doesn't always work this way, but ideally...

Some arranged marriages are "suggested" by the parents, the children decide, but again they have such respect or sense of duty toward their family that it is very likely they will agree to it. Love would be great, but it is not the main goal.

I think this concept is not easy for your typical American to wrap their heads around.

The "not ideal" is when the parents marry (sell) their children into miserable marriages for the status or money. There are good and bad apples in every culture.

[Vicky8675309]

Ryan has been a jerk, however, sometimes Jessica has come across as overly sensitive and dramatic. Towards the beginning of the episode I couldn't stand Ryan but as the episode continued, I started to think Jessica was playing mind games and may be "misinterpreting" stuff. I'm not sure if she is as sweet & genuine as I initially thought.

Jessica narrates more than Ryan and kind of comes off as thirsty for fame rather than love. I think the turning point for me was Ryan leaving an argument rather than arguing in a restaurant for fame (self-awareness on his part that she was lying to create drama or misinterpreting what was said OR he didn't want his rage to be captured). No one is perfect and so Ryan comes off as more genuine since he dropped the perfect act and is being somewhat "normal". Sure he was a jerk multiple times but Jessica isn't perfect and imo seems fake

[aradia22]

Ryan putting Jessica in danger and not being responsive to her fears is not OK. She should speak up more instead of trying to go along with what he wants (especially since she mentioned lack of a communication as a problem in her family) but still, he should know she's not happy. I was also getting a bit of a Vaughn vibe when he was talking about the dolphins. A "look how much I'm compromising" attitude and an expectation of being praised/rewarded.

 

Sean and Davina are just weird to me. They have cute moments and all three couples seem to have enjoyed their honeymoons more than the original three couples. That said, for whatever reason this couple seems the most fake. 

 

I like Jaclyn. I'm not quite in on Ryan. I don't know how much they're pushing him in interviews but dude, chill. She's totally within her rights to treat you as a friend. I do feel like he's less creepy than Doug when it comes to forcing intimacy and physical contact.

[aradia22]

So Davina was ridiculous about Sean not reading her mind when she was crying during the carriage ride. But the music cues from the editors were AMAZING. So funny.

[aradia22]

I don't think the tattoo/piercing thing was a big deal. However, Jessica herself explained the situation perfectly earlier. Her family doesn't talk when things bother them, they bottle it up, and then it explodes later. Ryan upset her many times and she let it go to try and be accommodating and then later she picked a fight over something small when she couldn't take it anymore. He saw her being upset over one comment when to her she's upset over the hundred little things he's done since they met. 

[Marlene]

I think it is Sabina who acted inconsiderate based on what I watched. He was telling her he was nervous and she then told him about her mum. Not the right timing. Why do women always expect men to just guess what they are feeling. I am a woman and I am sure I did  that. Stopped dating 16 years ago and love being alone.

 

I agree that Ryan and jessica should not have been put together. On the other hand she is someone who can stand up for herself. Not all women can. I still like Ryan R a lot and have more understanding for Jaclyn. She looked good while golfing from behind. So sad about her face ;)