S01.E12: Paradox

[ElectricBoogaloo]

With Cole dying from the effects of time-travel, Railly must find the one person who can save him.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sneak peek:

[merylinkid]

This episode was so much  that I had to take notes.   Here they are:

 

The episode where so many questions are answered:

Holy crap, that is how Dr. Jones knew she needed the right Cole.   Damn.   Guess that kills the theory that Cassie and Dr. Jones are the same person.  Dr. J knows her theory works because she saved Cole (but clearly didn’t come up with an effective method to prevent the splintering damage in the first place).  But awwww young Cole with his dad was heartbreaking.

She also knew Cassie was important to the plan even before the recording was found.  But why tell Cole not to get involved with Cassie.   If not for getting involved, Cassie wouldn’t have cared enough to try to save Cole by hunting down Dr. J. and then well, see above.

Now we know why Dr. J is so hung on getting her daughter back.   The unwanted pregnancy became the center of her universe.   She would literally kill to save her daughter now.    Hmmm, love of children justifies all seems to be a major theme in this show.   Dr. J., Ramses,  Cole’s daddy.   With Cole’s Daddy having the best chance to save his son – realistically.  But then giving his life for his son – instead of risking others.

Aaaaand the virus is the wipe out humanity so good old earth can try again.   That is some hard core Darwinism.   They even accept they will die to bring out the utopian future they envision.   I thought ELF was nutso.

Jennifer’s hostile takeover was hilarious though.   I really expected something more when she climbed on the table.   Like her lifting her dress and doing god knows what.

Did Cole paradox himself? 

I may have gotten some dust in my eye when little Cole met Jose.   Oh dear.   His best friend and then his enemy. 

Who was the guy at the end?   I get all these people mixed up still.

[Rhetorica]

I don't know celebrities, so I was amazed that Jones was so young!

I thought Cassie was cruel to Aaron but someone had to turn him to the dark side. Will he be working with Ramses now? Loved little James. Good back story and explanations of the visuals we've seen before. Cole totally did a Doctor Rejuvenation! Who was that at the end?

[Chaos Theory]

So does anyone else want Jennifer Goines to be their boss?  

 

Well that's one way to kill someone.  Turn yourself into a paradox bomb.

 

I love the way this show has everyone meet everyone else.  We finally get to see how Cole meets Ramse.  

 

This episode is for all those people who wanted an episode where Cassie gets to interact with Jones.  Pure gold by the way.

 

So basically we get a "Come with me if you want to live" moment. Answered with a "No but thanks anyway."    Ha!

 

But I think the best line is by Jones "Maybe your always and my always are not the same"    That might be the theme of the season.  

 

Young Cole was cute.  

Edited April 4, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[El Seed]

Loved this episode. Young Cole, Cassie and Jones interacting, Cole and Ramse meeting for the first time...loved it all.

 

I wonder if Aaron is going to work with Ramse and the 12 Monkeys now, and what his role will be.

 

The only way Jennifer's takeover of Markridge could have been better is if she went full O-Ren Ishii. Still an amazing scene regardless.

 

 

Who was the guy at the end?   I get all these people mixed up still.

 

Deacon, the kill-happy leader of the West VII, was with the Blue Man Group.

Edited April 4, 2015 by El Seed

[Bort]

I was absolutely dismayed that the promo said next week was the season finale. Nooooooooooo!

Please tell me Cole's paradox explosion took Pallid Man out for good. I've had enough of his albino ass.

The guy at the end was that West VII leader guy. I had a feeling we hadn't seen the last of him.

[Chaos Theory]

Wasn't the guy at the end the guy who Cole and Ramse use to run with? He managed to get inside the complex and I think he still has that woman inside who is loyal to him..,,so trouble for Jones.

I like the idea that Both Cole and Ramse appear to be stuck in 2015. It is an interesting problem one that the show has to eventually fix if if it wants to continue to be a time travel show....or not.

A lot of shows that aren't in the big 4 networks are run 13 episode seasons instead of 22 which seems smarter to me. Allows for tighter stories.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[El Seed]

Wasn't the guy at the end the guy who Cole and Ramse use to run with? He managed to get inside the complex and I think he still has that woman inside who is loyal to him..,,so trouble for Jones.

I like the idea that Both Cole and Ramse appear to be stuck in 2015. It is an interesting problem one that the show has to eventually fix if if it wants to continue to be a time travel show....or not.

 

Yes, that was Deacon. If you mean Max, the woman Cole was with when he and Ramse were a part of the West VII, she was killed by Ramse before he splintered to 1987.

 

I also like that Cole and Ramse are apparently stuck in 2015. I'm fine with this being permanent or the writers finding some way to "fix" it. If it's permanent, I hope we still get scenes in 2043 with Jones, I'd hate to lose her.

[Evie]

Loved this episode.

I suspected Jones had met Cole in the past when we saw the flashback of her being so sure he was the right Cole. Then last week making the decision to send him to 2015. I liked how it all unfolded and how the events made her decide to keep Hannah, which of course leads to future Jones' obsession with changing the past.

Now that's how you do a hostile takeover.

So sad to see Cole and Ramse meeting as kids knowing what is to come. I didn't realize they'd been together that long. It makes Ramses' betrayal even worse.

Aaron's kind of dumb. I get his "The future sent this guy to stop the plague? We're doomed" attitude. But he knows Olivia and Co. are willing to wipe out humanity. He knows Cassie isn't immune to the virus. I know he's desparate, but dude, at least try to hold out for something concrete before selling out to the dark side.

Those guys at the end were freaky.

So Cole's mom knew about the 12 Monkeys. Wonder if/when she'll pop up.

[thuganomics85]

Now, this was more like it.  Loved seeing the 2015 version of Jones (and that was still Barbara Sukowa, right?  She really looked different), and I loved the interactions between her and Cassie.  I wouldn't mind seeing that team again.  Loved Jones' "Oh, God!" response when Cassie told Cole's dad that she was going to tell them the whole truth.  Jones knew how that was going to turn out.  But, Cassie still salvaged it!

 

Good casting on both Cole's dad and Young Cole.  Despite being only episode, the actor playing the dad did a good job at showing what kind of man he was, and I could buy that he was willing to believe everything that was thrown at him, and sacrifice himself in the end.  Loved the final scene with Young Cole meeting Young Ramse.  There was also a few times where I felt like Young Cole was crushing on Cassie, which I found amusing.

 

So, now Aaron has turned on the group.  Unlike Ramse though, it seems like it's more out of stupidity and letting his concern for Cassie blind him from seeing what a bad idea that was.  But, I'm sure he's still feeling the effects of Cassie's headbutt.  Not sure what they are going to do with him. Will he try to redeem himself or go full-blown Team 12 Monkeys?

 

Cole seems to be better after injecting his younger blood into him.  I'm glad it sounds like he'll remain in 2015 going forward.  I still think this show is at its best when Cole/Cassie interact, so we should get plenty of that going forward.  Still like how Aaron Stanford and Amanda Schull play off one another.

 

Did The Pallid Man die in the blast?  Or will he be rearing his head, again?

 

Loved seeing Mark Margolis as Jones' dad.  Odd that it was only for one scene.  I wonder if there is more to him, because he's too good of an actor to only pop up for that one bit.

 

For now on, every hostile corporate takeover should be done by Jennifer.  I can not wait to see what craziness she is going to cause.

 

Maybe it's because he was the only one who interacted with Jones in 2043, but it just hit me that Dr. Alder is played by the same actor who played Duncan in Orphan Black.  Got to love those Canadian based actors!

 

Since I saw Todd Stashwick's name in the credits, I knew it was going to be Deacon in the end.  But what is up with these hooded guys?

[Rhetorica]

Loved this episode.

I suspected Jones had met Cole in the past when we saw the flashback of her being so sure he was the right Cole. Then last week making the decision to send him to 2015. I liked how it all unfolded and how the events made her decide to keep Hannah, which of course leads to future Jones' obsession with changing the past.

Now that's how you do a hostile takeover.

So sad to see Cole and Ramse meeting as kids knowing what is to come. I didn't realize they'd been together that long. It makes Ramses' betrayal even worse.

Aaron's kind of dumb. I get his "The future sent this guy to stop the plague? We're doomed" attitude. But he knows Olivia and Co. are willing to wipe out humanity. He knows Cassie isn't immune to the virus. I know he's desparate, but dude, at least try to hold out for something concrete before selling out to the dark side.

Those guys at the end were freaky.

So Cole's mom knew about the 12 Monkeys. Wonder if/when she'll pop up.

I think his Mom might be Jennifer. She did coin the phrase 12 Monkeys and she's in the women's caravan with the symbols on the side.

[Shriekingeel]

I would watch the Kat 'n Cass Chainsmoking Adventures Show.

So many wonderful moments in this one. Cassie's face lighting up when she recognizes Sweet Baby James. Cole's face when Jones walks in the door. "We're going to tell you the truth". "Oh, God, no".

[shapeshifter]

I thought that they made some 12-monkey-style print fabric for this episode (Jennifer wore it during the takeover), but it's guns, not monkeys.

ITA with your whole post, thuganomics85!

Just because this Cole and this Ramse are stuck (for the viewers' foreseeable future) in 2015 doesn't mean another version of them won't be beamed up hither an yon. Right?

...Cole totally did a Doctor Rejuvenation! Who was that at the end?

Except so much better!!! (IMO)

BTW, did it somehow cause the red vines to grow on the time machine in 2043? Like maybe all of Cole's DNA in the universe is now different? Or is that too magical and unscientific?

...So sad to see Cole and Ramse meeting as kids knowing what is to come. I didn't realize they'd been together that long. It makes Ramses' betrayal even worse....

Or gives hope that Ramse sees a bigger picture--like somehow he knows that it will lead to Cole being with Cassie.

I hope we get at least one more line explaining Jones' decision to keep the baby, because I didn't quite buy it.

Could Jones' baby daddy and/or Cole's mother be time travelers, and that's why they disappeared?

Edited April 4, 2015 by shapeshifter

[bluebonnet]

I really need/want to watch this episode again.  So much good.  But for now I'm tired.  The only thing I just have to say right this very minute is that Jennifer's dress with guns all over it was amazing. So inappropriate but so Jennifer.

[shapeshifter]

I really need/want to watch this episode again. So much good. But for now I'm tired. The only thing I just have to say right this very minute is that Jennifer's dress with guns all over it was amazing. So inappropriate but so Jennifer.

Guns? Not monkeys? I was watching low res on a tiny screen.

Editing to say: It is guns.

Edited April 4, 2015 by shapeshifter

[kat165]

I watched the above clip yesterday. And then this afternoon I rewatched (for the third time!) last wk's ep as my brother was watching it as he was too sick to view it last week live. After having seen the above clip my mind was blown throughout all of Dr. Jones's scenes in last wk's ep.

 

Seeing it this third time also made me realize that when Ramses was in prison Olivia told him to write down what he'd learned & everything he knew/thought, etc. I am wondering if much later on in time she'd found that journal he kept and that's how she knew so much (or all) about him. I'm still leaning towards thinking that Olivia is another time traveler.

 

This wk's ep: wow, Dr. Jones looked so young! Either they age her more in the 2043 eps or slathered on a lot of makeup for 2015, but I could really see a difference. She was so pretty. And looked like Cassie with a blonde wig. Why do these women all look so much alike?

 

Cole's dad. Cole as a little boy. Cole older meeting them, that choked me up. And then the first time he meets Ramses, who takes his hand. Very cool.

 

Mery, who is ELF?

 

And can someone remind me what is Spearhead? The black soldier guy (Whitley?) mentioned to Jones when he was leaving last week that there was no hope with Spearhead gone, Cole gone...etc. I know Spearhead is Olivia's thing she bribed Aaron with but what was it to the folks in 2043? Was that the name of Jones' project?

 

I thought the younger guy in the last scene was Deacon from West 7. No idea who the other pale guy is (is original pale guy dead? from being blown up when Cole stuck himself with young James' blood?). His voice sounds really familiar though. Thanks, El Seed! I'm typing this as I read so I don't forget anything.

 

First time I've liked a Jennifer scene. That was awesome how she outed that new CEO.

 

Yes, Cole's mom. Another character I'd like to see. Along with Olivia's father. For it to be Jennifer? Wow. But has/had she been out long enough to meet Cole's dad/change her name to Marion, have a kid and come back a year later? If she is Cole's mom why would she give Ramses the medallion?

 

And speaking of Jones' cigerettes, in 2043 where is she getting her smokes?

 

Shapeshifter, good eye. I didn't even notice the print of Jennifer's takeover dress. But I did notice her shoes with the red soles. I also like the idea of Cole's mom being a time traveler.

Or did her dress have guns on it? I watched it again at 11 & didn't pick up on the print either time.

[shapeshifter]

...Or did her dress have guns on it? I watched it again at 11 & didn't pick up on the print either time.

It is guns. You can see them clearly when she first enters. Too bad it wasn't monkeys. I bet they could sell monkey print fabric as a kick starter for the special effects budget.

[kat165]

Maybe you could drop the producers a line. Monkey fabric might sell. I sew, I could make a cool tshirt.

Edited April 4, 2015 by kat165

[ElectricBoogaloo]

did it somehow cause the red vines to grow on the time machine in 2043? Like maybe all of Cole's DNA in the universe is now different? Or is that too magical and unscientific?

It was Ramse who caused the vines to grow on the machine. In the previous episode we learned that they only grow where Ramse has been.

 

Jennifer's hostile takeover was awesome. Loved her gun dress. Ha and that poor redheaded woman!

 

I don't think Jennifer is Cole's mother (mostly because I can't imagine her being able to keep her pregnancy a secret from Leland for nine whole months) but it would fit the timeline. Young Cole was 5 years old in 2015, which means he was born in 2010 when Jennifer was 25. Even though she had been hearing voices since she was 13, it seems like she didn't go nuts until after the murders in the lab (in 2012 or 2013). She was first brought to the Night Room in 2011 which was shortly after Cole was born. But why was she wandering around Philadelphia calling herself Marion?

 

And can someone remind me what is Spearhead? The black soldier guy (Whitley?) mentioned to Jones when he was leaving last week that there was no hope with Spearhead gone, Cole gone...etc. I know Spearhead is Olivia's thing she bribed Aaron with but what was it to the folks in 2043? Was that the name of Jones' project?

Spearhead is the group where Whitley's father, Foster, and Ramse's ex-girlfriend and son were. It's where Jones got the power core thing she needed to run the machine.

[shapeshifter]

It was Ramse who caused the vines to grow on the machine. In the previous episode we learned that they only grow where Ramse has been....

I trust your memory on this, but can you refresh mine a bit? The only thing I remember about the red vines (not candy!) is Cassie seeing them when she was drugged in "The Red Forest" episode.

Anyway, so are you saying my far out guess that the vines appear on the machine because of bits of DNA left from a time traveler is correct? If so, it might be lucky or unlucky that they don't swab it down regularly.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I trust your memory on this, but can you refresh mine a bit? The only thing I remember about the red vines (not candy!) is Cassie seeing them when she was drugged in "The Red Forest" episode.
Anyway, so are you saying my far out guess that the vines appear on the machine because of bits of DNA left from a time traveler is correct? If so, it might be lucky or unlucky that they don't swab it down regularly.

After Ramse finally gets out of prison, Olivia takes him to a fancy outdoor garden with a big pool. Olivia takes the amulet that Jennifer game to Ramse and the amulet from the Pallid Man. Olivia and Ramse walk to the middle of the pool and put the two amulets together. There is a huge burst of light (just like when Cole did the same with Cassie's two watches in the pilot and like when Cole injects himself with young Cole's blood in this episode), then all the trees and shrubs in the garden turn from green to red.

 

In the previous episode (Divine Move), Jennifer tells Ramse, "Some come for my herb. It gives pictures, you know. Pictures in your head you can't erase. They don't work unless the leaves are red. And they're not red unless he's been there." I assumed she was talking about the Witness as the one whose presence turns the leaves red (interesting that drinking tea made from the red leaves is what makes people have visions of the red leaves! I'm also curious why Olivia/the Pallid Man wanted Jennifer and Cassie to have visions of the red forest).

 

But then I remembered that after Cole splintered from the bar in that same episode, Cassie noticed that the leaves of a plant turned red. I thought we all assumed after episode 11 that Ramse was the Witness but now we know that Cole also stayed in 2015 so maybe he is a Witness too? I considered the possibility that plants turn red after anyone splinters (meaning either Cole or Ramse) but I don't recall any plants turning red after Cole splintered in the first ten episodes. When it happened with Ramse and Cole in episodes 10 and 11, the plants were already there so I wonder why they started growing on the machine in 2043 in this episode.

 

Ha, but now I am undecided whether Cole or Ramse caused the red vines to grow!

[Bort]

And speaking of Jones' cigerettes, in 2043 where is she getting her smokes?

They're fairly easy to make, even with filters.

I am undecided whether Cole or Ramse caused the red vines to grow!

I don't think it's a specific person, but a temporal event that turns plants red. We've seen it happen when Cole has splintered. And the biggest occurrence was when Olivia put those medallions together in the middle of a landscape garden.

[merylinkid]

Kat, ELF is an environmental terrorist organization.   They have been suspected in firebombings and other acts of violent destruction all in an attempt to "save" the environment.   Because dozens of burning SUVs has no harmful effects on the environment of course.

[shapeshifter]

...Ha, but now I am undecided whether Cole or Ramse caused the red vines to grow!

...I don't think it's a specific person, but a temporal event that turns plants red. We've seen it happen when Cole has splintered. And the biggest occurrence was when Olivia put those medallions together in the middle of a landscape garden.

Okay. But it did seem to me in this episode that Jones was surprised to find the Red Vines on the machine. Maybe they'll clarify it next week.

And thanks ElectricBoogaloo, for the recap of the red vine appearances. I love this show, but there are a lot of characters and events to keep track of.

[Notwisconsin]

Oh boy! Blue space aliens!!!! Either that or they're from 3487 and are doing the same thing because the plague was prevented and the world was a horrid wasteland.

[Bort]

Okay. But it did seem to me in this episode that Jones was surprised to find the Red Vines on the machine. Maybe they'll clarify it next week.

I thought Jones was surprised because she didn't know about the side effect of plants turning red. Why would she? She's only been on that end of the time travel machine, in a basement with no plants. For that matter, since Cole doesn't see what happens to plants after he splinters out, I doubt he knows about it either.

But even if Jones knew, her surprise about vines randomly growing on the machine is understandable because that's weird no matter what.

Edited April 4, 2015 by kariyaki

[AlwaysWatching]

Barbara Sukowa is 65 years old. I'm guessing they used very advanced facial CGI.  Her face was totally believable as a young women.  I was glued to this episode just for Jones.  It also just happened to be a damn good episode all around.  I want to thank people up top who have explained things that I didn't catch since the beginning of the show.  The only thing that terrifies me is that Barbara Sukowa is credited as a Guest Star.  I'm hoping that's a nod to her long career and not the possibility that she might not be in next season or leaving at some point.

 

I do like all, or most, of the cast members and I find the story interesting.  Unfortunately, I find that I am deeply interested in the Jones character and not sure I would hang in there if her character is written off the show.  I've been giving up on a lot of shows lately. I watch too much TV.  So, stick around Jones!

[Rhetorica]

Barbara Sukowa is 65 years old. I'm guessing they used very advanced facial CGI. Her face was totally believable as a young women. I was glued to this episode just for Jones. It also just happened to be a damn good episode all around. I want to thank people up top who have explained things that I didn't catch since the beginning of the show. The only thing that terrifies me is that Barbara Sukowa is credited as a Guest Star. I'm hoping that's a nod to her long career and not the possibility that she might not be in next season or leaving at some point.

I do like all, or most, of the cast members and I find the story interesting. Unfortunately, I find that I am deeply interested in the Jones character and not sure I would hang in there if her character is written off the show. I've been giving up on a lot of shows lately. I watch too much TV. So, stick around Jones!

When I saw the 2015 version, I thought they aged her! She looks good, though, even in 2045.

[BooBear]

Barbara Sukowa is 65 years old. I'm guessing they used very advanced facial CGI.  Her face was totally believable as a young women.

I had thought it was just my tv. Wow, I was really amazed at what they did there.  I liked this episode in someways. I loved young Jones.. loved sick Cole... loved adult Cole getting to see dad, loved Cassie getting to meet 5 year old Cole, loved young Jones and Cassandra, but in a way it felt like another stall episode where not a ton happened and we didn't advance the plot. That said, maybe we did. In the original timeline, correct me if I am wrong, Cole's dad died later - maybe when Cole was 7.  So will the two extra years that Ramses is protecting Cole make him more likely to soften in 2015? I still think the writers messed up on this. Ramses is ready to kill his "little brother" who he has known and protected for years for the son he has known for a few weeks? Um..

 

I think in some ways the episode made me less concerned about Jones cold bloodily killing all those people. She knew it would have to happen to have Cole show up in 1987 and then 2015. BTW I just love Jones. I secretly think she cares about Cole as a son and he is becoming as important to her as anyone could.

 

I suppose last night was violent but what was with the constant TV-MA warnings last night? I didn't think anything was that bad.

[MizArk]

BooBear, we wondered about that, too. I guess it was that little clip of film Jennifer showed during the hostile takeover that was so "shocking?"

 

Anyway, I'd found myself drifting out of the show a bit during the past couple of episodes, and wondering if it should have been renewed for another season, but this episode drew me right back in. I absolutely love Cassie and Cole together and them working with young Jones and poor cute little Cole and his doomed dad was fantastic. Now I have more questions I want answered, so I'm eagerly anticipating the next one again. Jennifer is a bit too over the top for me, I'd like her toned down some, but maybe that's just me and it's obviously not going to happen. I'm still struggling to accept Ramsey's sudden change to Evil Plague Fanboy because son he's had for five minutes. But something about Cole just fascinates me -- I think AS is doing an amazing job with this complex character. The scene with his dad when he said he didn't always stay good but he's trying to make up for that just broke my heart. So ... I'm still in.

 

ETA: I forgot about Cole's naked scene! I guess that was the shocking nudity,

Edited April 4, 2015 by Gina

[Shriekingeel]

I think AS is doing an amazing job with this complex character.

Seconded. She was so awkward in the Center Stage role, which was the only thing I saw her in prior to this, and she's great as Cassie.

[shapeshifter]

...I forgot about Cole's naked scene! I guess that was the shocking nudity,

Anyone else flash back to naked Daniel's return on Stargate SG1?

[kat165]

Thanks, EB. Wow, Spearhead didn't/doesn't work out too well for them. Didn't see any older Aaron there either. or Olivia.

 

I still can't figure our why Olivia drugged Cassie and took her through that guided hallucination. Maybe that will be answered next week or next season? (I hope it isn't dropped altogether. So far I think they're doing a good job with the threads).

 

Thanks, kariyaki, but where is she getting the tobacco part?

 

Thanks, Merylinkid!

 

Always, wow, 65!? I never would have guessed. Last night in 2043 I caught her face in the dim blue light and saw tons of wrinkles and tired skin. After seeing her in 2015 I was just amazed at what I thought was a stellar makeup job. Yes, her face was totally believeable. I've never seen makeup do that good of a job. I didn't know cgi can also manage faces & have it look so natural.

 

Bummer about the "guest star" part. I really like Dr. Jones. I hope we don't lose her. I hope that is just a nod.

 

I wondered the same thing, BooBear. Maybe the headless corpse? And the mild sexual insinuations of Jennifer's vid? Maybe the producers/network are just being overly cautious. Oh, yeah, the violence of the explosion and all the gun pulling.

 

Gina, I find myself being drawn in even more. Now I want to rewatch the whole season and see it sort of with new eyes because of all we've seen as the show has progressed.

 

I find Jennifer over the top too, Gina, and this was really the first time I've enjoyed her. It was just nuts enough.

 

Hehe, "Here's the new boss...not the same as anything" or whatever she ended
that with. So funny.

[Bort]

Thanks, kariyaki, but where is she getting the tobacco part?

In a closet with a UV light isn't a stretch of the imagination. I hear it's kind of a pain, though, so you gotta be dedicated to make it work. With no other source of tobacco, I imagine a hardcore smoker like Jones is willing to put just as much effort as she does her time travel sciencing.

[kat165]

And maybe it's not tobacco she's smoking. I just assumed it was/is. :)

[Chaos Theory]

That is the thing about time travel shows; when they are done right you can have nothing actually happen and still have everything happen. The show has been hinting at this moment in time for awhile now. Cole has been haunted by it since he was a child. Milk falling out of someone's hand; a gun shooting. All moments he couldn't quite place.

Plus you have him seeing his father for the first time since he was a child. Both Cole and Ramse grew up in orphanages which goes a long way in explaining Ramse's obsession with protecting the son he just met.

We met the young Jones. Pregnant with a baby she is not sure she wants to keep. It is this adventure that convinced her to keep the child that becomes her reason for building the time travel machine in the first place.

This episode is about paradoxes. The chicken and the egg. Fate.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[FurryFury]

Wow. That was a lot.

 

Mostly, I've enjoyed the episode (finally, a return to the characters I care about - Cole, Cassie and Jones, and no Ramsey! And they didn't even kill Jones, something I was afraid of!), but I'm really fearing now that the writers don't have a specific plan. I mean, the first season feels mostly plotted, but my bitter experience with mythology-heavy scifi shows tells me it's all going to fall apart soon.

 

On the other hand, I really love all the characters except Aaron and Ramse (who are villains anyway), so I'm in no matter what. Although I really, really don't want everything to be a closed time loop. I do believe fate can, and should be changed. Screw destiny, right?

 

Loved Young!Jones - kudos to the make-up artists, those responsible for visual effects (I guess) and Barbara Sukowa. I totally believed she was 28 years younger.

 

I dig Jennifer's shoes. Her appearance was brief, but as usual, entertaining.

 

Can't help but ship Cassie/Cole. So many moments.

 

Not a big fan of Ramse, but his absense felt conspicuous, after the previous episode.

 

The whole thing with Cassie and Child!Cole really reminded me of Steins;gate movie, when the female lead traveled back in time and met the child version of the protagonist and kinda "imprinted" on him. Funnily, she did it in order to save him from something very reminiscent of the malaise that was affecting Cole.

 

The one thing that didn't work for me was Cole's father. He just came out of nowhere. It would have been nice to set him up in one of the previous episodes - otherwise, it just didn't feel right and as affecting as it should have been (or maybe I've missed something).

Edited April 4, 2015 by FurryFury

[shapeshifter]

...The one thing that didn't work for me was Cole's father. He just came out of nowhere. It would have been nice to set him up in one of the previous episodes - otherwise, it just didn't feel right and as affecting as it should have been (or maybe I've missed something).

Maybe it's a subjective thing (i.e., my relationship with my own father), but I was amazed at how Cole's father, who did indeed come "out of nowhere" (or at least no other episode or flashback) really did work for me.

[BooBear]

ETA: I forgot about Cole's naked scene! I guess that was the shocking nudity,

But I didn't even see anything?!!  Not even a bare bottom. Maybe side cheek. Those guys have to watch one episode of the Americans... 

 

which goes a long way in explaining Ramse's obsession with protecting the son he just met.

The only thing is he literally left his young son in the future to be raised by... who knows . So his son is in the same position he was (parent-less at a young age)  but with plague aftermath and much more dangerous circumstances.

 

I agree there is something about Cole that I root for. I think I saw some of it last night. Basically he is a good kid who is good at heart who has to do some not too nice things but that didn't alter his core. I think Cassie really brings out his best side and it is a nice evolution. Tough with a heart of gold is a good description.  But I will be miffed if I don't get a Cassie / Cole kiss in the last episode.

[shapeshifter]

...But I will be miffed if I don't get a Cassie / Cole kiss in the last episode.

Personally, I'd prefer another slow dance.

[FurryFury]

I think it's a bit too early for a kiss. A hug or a dance, indeed, would work better for me.

[MizArk]

Hubs and I couldn't help but laugh at the not-supposed-to-be-funny scene when Elaina (?) lay there dead and Ramsey made the solemn promise to his son, "I'll be here for you forever. And now I have to leave and travel back in time, so hope these strangers take good care of you."

 

I loved the friendship between Ramsey and Cole in the beginning, but this new development isn't working for me at all. So I hope they manage to make it believable, though I'm still in for Cole/Cassie.

[Evie]

I agree there is something about Cole that I root for. I think I saw some of it last night. Basically he is a good kid who is good at heart who has to do some not too nice things but that didn't alter his core. I think Cassie really brings out his best side and it is a nice evolution. Tough with a heart of gold is a good description. But I will be miffed if I don't get a Cassie / Cole kiss in the last episode.

I thought it was sad when he was telling his dad that Young Cole wouldn't always be good, but he was trying to make up for it. We've heard it before but that combined with his dad's "The only failure is giving up" thing really explains what drives Cole.

And then there is Cassie. She's become a big part of what drives Cole too. I liked how they showed Cassie reaching for Cole's hand as Young Ramse introduced himself to Young Cole. What was, what is, what will be.

[Chaos Theory]

Re: Ramse and his son does work for me. I do wish the show had given the relationship another epusode to develop though. So far it has been change the past: change our present but Ramse now has a reason to keep the present as is. Yes abandoning his son is a crazy move but allowing Cole to succeed in his plan to stop the plague would erase his son from existence. Stopping Cole at least gives his son a chance to live.

But yes the friendship between Cole and Ramse is almost as good as the between Cole and Cassie. I think the show has done both of them extremely well.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Rhetorica]

No kisses! No sexy time! Don't turn this into a romcom. Anticipation is good.

[kat165]

Yes, I'm with Rhetorica. I don't want to see any Cassie/Cole kissing.

 

About Ramses and his son: he left him to keep him alive, but in 2043 really what kind of life can he have if the future remains unchanged?

Edited April 5, 2015 by kat165

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The only thing that terrifies me is that Barbara Sukowa is credited as a Guest Star.  I'm hoping that's a nod to her long career and not the possibility that she might not be in next season or leaving at some point.

She has been credited as a guest star since the first episode. I don't think it has anything to do with her long career though. Whether you are billed as a regular cast member in the credits or as a guest star has to do with your contract. If you are signed as a regular, the standard contract for American shows is seven years which is a pretty big time commitment. Some actors choose not to become series regulars (Chris Noth on The Good Wife and Connor Paolo on Gossip Girl, for example) so that they have more freedom to pursue other projects. In Connor's case, because he chose not to become a regular on Gossip Girl, he was able to join the cast of Revenge as a regular. Chris Noth has appeared pretty regularly on The Good Wife for six years but he has also been able to film a mini series and several movies during that time since he isn't on set for TGW every week all season. My guess is that Sukowa didn't want to be potentially tied to this series for seven years. She is supposed to start filming a movie about Stefan Zweig pretty soon.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just rewatched the pilot and I love how they are tying so many things from the very first episode into the later episodes. In relation to episode 12 (Paradox), Leland realizes that Cole hasn't yet traveled back to 1987 yet (when they first met) and still doesn't know what the Army of the 12 Monkeys is. He tells Cole that he has to kill him and cut him up to see what makes him tick.Then he says, "I guess that means you aren't going to be able to go back to 1987 after all. You know what they call that? A paradox."

 

Hee and Cole repeats in the pilot what Jones said in this episode: "Mother Nature doesn't like it when you rearrange her furniture."
 

Also of note in this episode: Jones tells Cole not to get too close to young Cole. Future Cole knows that due to the paradox, he should stay away from young Cole (although that does beg the question what would happen if the two Coles got too close - would young Cole fast forward in age before the explosion?), but in both the pilot and in episode 10, we saw that Cassie's watches and the Pallid Man's necklaces were able to be very close without creating the explosion. Cole had the two watches in separate pockets and Olivia was holding Ramse's necklace as she removed the Pallid Man's necklace. In both cases, it wasn't until they were placed right next to each other and touching that the paradox caused the explosion. I know better safe than sorry and all that, but I am curious as to how close the two Coles could get to each other before something happened. Cole specifically said in the pilot that the two things had to come in contact with each other, so as long as Future Cole didn't actually touch young Cole would they have been okay being near each other? Or if they got within a few feet of each other, would the energy started sparking between them?

[shapeshifter]

...Or if they got within a few feet of each other, would the energy started sparking between them?

They did show in this episode that when the two Coles got close they both seemed to have headaches.