Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[Darklazr]

SORASing on soap opera's happens way too much, IMO, especially when the parents don't age at ALL!  Or, we see some characters SORAS'd while other characters remain the same age or never aged at all!  

 

I will never understand why Nick did not tell Renard and Adalind that he witnessed Juliette carrying what looked like a four or five year old child toward the helicopters.  Adalind could have tossed out, "Diana is aging faster due to the nasty bloody dead goop that I rubbed on my stomach" to regain my powers!  @OtterMommy, you are on point with the observation that a simple throw away like could have explained why Diana is ten.

[OtterMommy]

SORASing on soap opera's happens way too much, IMO, especially when the parents don't age at ALL!  Or, we see some characters SORAS'd while other characters remain the same age or never aged at all!  

 

I will never understand why Nick did not tell Renard and Adalind that he witnessed Juliette carrying what looked like a four or five year old child toward the helicopters.  Adalind could have tossed out, "Diana is aging faster due to the nasty bloody dead goop that I rubbed on my stomach" to regain my powers!  @OtterMommy, you are on point with the observation that a simple throw away like could have explained why Diana is ten.

 

And the thing is, they had ONE opportunity to use a line like that--the first time Adalind saw Diana.  And now they've missed it.  Good going, Grimm.

[tpel]

I'm doing a re-watch of season 3 (ah, the good old days ;-) 

 

With that in mind, the rapid aging thing doesn't bother me so much. I mean, Diana was born "full term" much earlier than expected -- I think Adalind said it was around 6 months (which, yeah, probably doesn't fit with the actual timing of events on the show). Stefania didn't say in so many words that this was due to the re-hexenbiesting ritual, but she seemed to take it in stride as not unexpected. To me, that set a precedent for rapid aging. I don't get the sense that the writers are hoping we won't notice so much as that her aging is a plot point. Renard and Adalind seem to be taking it a little too well, I'll grant. I mean, if it was my kid I would be worried that this is the hexenbiest equivalent of progeria, and that little Diana will die of old age in a couple of decades!

[merylinkid]

1.  This is THIS show so I don't trust them to really address it as a plot point.   I think everyone is taking it in stride because the writers never thought to have them react to the sudden aging.

 

2.  If it is true that Hexens age faster that would make Adalind about 12.   Which ewwwwwwwwwwww.

 

So either way this show is messed up on this point (and so many others).

[spaulding]

The first season of Grimm, I stuck around only for the rest of the cast because I thought Nick was so boring. He was just the pretty boy to watch. I couldn't decide if it was the actor or the role.

 

I don't know if they are making him deliberately dull...I mean, why would they do that?  I think they just don't know how to make him "not dull."  On this show, unless a character is Wesen or 'biest (because I still don't think those two things are the same), they are dull.

 

I don't think that Giuntoli has much range as an actor. 

 

I think that Nick is supposed to be dull (or choose another word) because he's the straight man to the wesen.  It's the wesen who are interesting, and Nick is the mechanism for the audience to see how the wesen live among humans.  I still love the concept.  However, the stars of the show are the wesen. 

 

This show wants to focus on Nick, not the wesen.  But he's not interesting at all.  Adding drama to his love life doesn't make him more interesting. 

[OtterMommy]

2.  If it is true that Hexens age faster that would make Adalind about 12.   Which ewwwwwwwwwwww.

 

So either way this show is messed up on this point (and so many others).

 

Now, if THIS is the case, it begs yet another (doomed to be unanswered) question.  When do hexens stop aging faster?  When the show finally comes back for season 6 is Diana going to be a peri-menopausal 47 year old?

 

And, if hexens do age faster, why hasn't Adalind aged faster than a normal human?  We know she's 35--they've given us her birthdate (twice...and a different date each time!), but she looks her age.  And, besides the slug treatment back in season 1, she hasn't "had any work done."

[OtterMommy]

I don't think that Giuntoli has much range as an actor. 

 

From what I know about DG, it seems like he really wants to be in comedy.  I've seen some off the cuff stuff with him, which is entertaining and shows that he has at least some comic timing.  The comedy film that he co-wrote and co-stars in won the audience award at a recent festival, so that bodes well.  Is he, say, at the SNL level?  Probably not, or else that is what he'd be doing and not this Friday night network show...  But it does show he has far more life in him than they are letting use when portraying Nick.

 

So, I don't know...I think that, between the writing and the directing and the acting, I'm will to place the least amount of responsibility for what Nick has become on the acting.

[tpel]

I don't know that hexenbiests generally age fast. I don't think we've been given much indication of this. If anything, we've seen the opposite in Renard's mother, though it was hinted that they might keep their youthful looks via magic rather than as a natural tendency. So I'm assuming that the ritual affected Diana's aging.

 

But it would be funny if this was all an evolutionary adaptation of hexenbiests: they age quickly through the most vulnerable period of development (since hexen-moms can't be depended on to bother taking care of them through protracted terrible-twos and annoying-tweens), then they stay young and beautiful for 50 or 60 years (the better to ensnare and manipulate men to do their bidding), then they morph into Frau Pesch-like crones.

[Lii]

How did Diana even know who Daddy and Mommy were? Has she even met them? Like okay, she knew Mommy for like a minute when she was born. Did she even MEET Daddy? EVER? Or did part of her Black Claw brainwashing include full bios on her putative family members? Because shouldn't Kelly have been Mommy to her, for the most part? Also, dafuq?

[icewolf]

The exact episode that I feel the show jumped the shark was "Bad Luck", the one with the ending with Adalind screaming when she finds out she is pregnant with Nick's baby. I imagine the audience was screaming along with her.

This was the episode Juliette decided to be massive jerk to Nick, changing to a hexenbiest face and grabbing Nick to demand that he kiss her. That was a massive jerk move, if she had any brains she would have given him some time to try to work things out.

 

Before we got multiple episodes of Juliette hiding that she had become Hexen, with her not telling Nick. This is happening AGAIN this season with Adalind. This is so lazy of the writers, literally repeating what they did last year but with another character.

 

I had originally the HexenJuliette arc was going to be her dealing with the fact that she was changed, and her learning to accept what she had become and deciding to use her powers to help Nick. I guess that would have been too predicable? Maybe, but it would have been much better than what we did get with her.

 

Now Juliette or shall I say Eve is stuck in her own plots most of the time, and hangs out in a room of computers surrounded by nospeaking extras. Yay? I imagine Bitse feels like Eve has been a huge downgrade for her.

[Lii]

Speaking of the nospeaking extras, who exactly are they? Because seriously, I have been under the impression that since Chavez and those random homies of hers died, HW literally consisted of three people: JuliEve, Truble, and Meisner. The nospeaking extras are only ever in the google room. Is the google room at HW? Or does she go to the library to use the computer?

[icewolf]

Speaking of the nospeaking extras, who exactly are they? Because seriously, I have been under the impression that since Chavez and those random homies of hers died, HW literally consisted of three people: JuliEve, Truble, and Meisner. The nospeaking extras are only ever in the google room. Is the google room at HW? Or does she go to the library to use the computer?

I imagine the nonspeaking extras are just there to fill the background. The extras are completely irreverent to the plot, but without them there it would be empty and that place would feel even more fake as a location. The writers seem to have zero interest developing them as characters, even with Truble and Meisner gone.

[Prevailing Wind]

Just what we need...more tertiary characters to clutter up the writing. No, thanks.  I prefer my extras non-speaking.

[tpel]

Diana did "meet" her father when she was and infant, when Adalind brought her back to Portland. He held her a couple of times and beamed; it was rather sweet. Of course, no normal child could remember that. But I can kind of wrap my head around the fact that Diana might. She has consistently remembered people she met only during her first weeks of life, including her mother and Meisner. I would, however, expect more surprise on the part of her parents.

 

I don't necessarily want to see more development on the part of the minor characters populating Hadrian's Wall. But you can't have a massive international organization represented by only three people, and then have two of them disappear. I hope that Renard is actually trying to infiltrate Black Claw rather than becoming their patsy. If he was pulling a long con, I can see why he wouldn't tell Nick, Hank, etc. But he might have told Meisner-- seeing that Meisner has already killed two members of Renard's immediate family, he might not want to be third on the list, should Meisner think he's gone over to the dark side. So, the writers have to get Meisner out of the way for a while, so Eve can run amok messing up Renard's plans by alerting Nick to Renard's supposed treachery. The problem is, this just makes Hadrian's Wall seem incompetent. Don't they have any back-up command structure? I mean, suppose Meisner and Trubel were killed, would that mean an experimentally conditioned hexenbiest with minimal social awareness would be running the show?

 

The only thing that could save this is if Renard and Meisner actually planned to leak information about Renard's involvement with Black Claw to the "good guys", to help cement Renard's position with Black Claw. Alternatively, the impression of incompetence would be somewhat lessened if we learn that Meisner and Trubel were called away on some mission of huge importance and were unexpectedly physically unable to communicate with command for a while. 

[iMonrey]

I just read that NBC has only ordered 13 episodes for next season. So I hope the writers start planning for an end-game.

[OtterMommy]

I don't know that hexenbiests generally age fast. I don't think we've been given much indication of this. If anything, we've seen the opposite in Renard's mother, though it was hinted that they might keep their youthful looks via magic rather than as a natural tendency. So I'm assuming that the ritual affected Diana's aging.

 

Generally, I don't think that we need an explanation of the aging process of hexenbiests.  What I'm saying is that, through their own missteps, this show has created several situations where an explanation is not normally required, but needed in this case.  RAS is normally just accepted in TV shows--very young child actors are hard to find and sometimes, just because of that, characters have to be aged up a bit so that they are at an age where there is an actor to play them.

 

However, with Grimm, they've messed it up so much that viewers should really be scratching their heads.  If Diana had just aged up once, fine...whatever.  But they actually aged her twice, tied her age to another plot, AND threw in a completely unneeded moment where we saw her as an 8 month old baby (the age she would have been) and then, a few weeks later, she's 4 years old.  That, really, is just too much to accept as run-on-the-mill RAS and it should be addressed in some way (and, again, it could have very, very easily been addressed but, SIGH!!!!, they screwed that up....)

 

 

The exact episode that I feel the show jumped the shark was "Bad Luck", the one with the ending with Adalind screaming when she finds out she is pregnant with Nick's baby. I imagine the audience was screaming along with her.

 

You know, when that episode aired, OtterDaddy and I watched it live.  As soon as it was over (Adalind screaming NOOOOOO!!!!), OtterDaddy stood up, looked at me, and said something like, "This show is dead to me now."  And he hasn't watched an episode since.

 

ETA: Also, the episode immediately following that one was the first of the downwards rating slide.  Coincidence?  Hardly.

Edited April 25, 2016 by OtterMommy

[merylinkid]

 

The extras are completely irreverent to the plot,

Awesome typo.   Thank you for making my Monday.

[OtterMommy]

From the Good to the Bone thread....

 

At this point I'm just frustrated by the time wasted on these new WoW stories. We've had five seasons of this, we don't really need to introduce any new kinds of Wesen anymore. They've never been able to balance the Wow stories with the larger stories so if they want to introduce new Wesen they should be incorporated into the whole Black Claw thing so they can focus on that and be done with it.

 

I sort of agree with this?  I mean, I like the Wesen of the Week format, if only because I don't think this show has done extended arcs well so far. Also, when the series started, the WotW plots were interesting (they haven't been interesting, at least not consistently, for a while) and fun twists on other stories.

 

But I agree that they have to quit rolling out a new Wesen every episode. (Disclaimer, I've only seen about 3-4 episodes this season, so my thoughts may be "out of date") At this point, they don't need any new Wesen.  Yes, once in a while a story comes along where they need a new kind of wesen--but, most of the time, the story can easily be told using a wesen that has already been introduced.  For example, in the Bad Luck episode last season they introduced the Vulpesmycra, a canine character that hunted the rabbit wesen.  Honestly, why couldn't "Vulpesmycra" being a job title of sorts and let a Blutbad, Coyotl, Hundjager, or even a Fuchsbau hold that title?  That would make more sense than introducing (and spending time introducing) a creature that it indistinguishable from other creatures and who we'll never see again?

[OtterMommy]

From the 518/Good to the Bone thread:

 

Huh! I thought the most important line in the episode was Rosalee's at the end of her conversation with Eve. Eve asks if she minded her (Eve) telling Adalind that if she hurt Nick, she'd come after her.
Rosalee: "It's what I would have said..."
(Eve leaves and is out of earshot)
Rosalee (to herself, thoughtfully; she read the line beautifully): "...if I was Juliette."

This made me happy because I am a romantic always in favour of True Love lasting and lovers NOT becoming alienated, or getting back together if they do. Certainly Juliette did enough awful things when infected with hexenbiestitude that I stopped feeling strongly about it in ​this case, but the principle remains, and I am one of the (perhaps relatively rare) people here who really wants Nick and Juliette to get back together, after the super-awful Nick-Adalind relationship has its well-deserved burial and Juliette melts into extreme sobbing remorse for enough screen time. However, since so many people here loathe the idea of any redemption for Julieve, I came here expecting howls of outrage about the line. It seems to show the writers really do have some re-reversal in mind, and-- given how unjust Juliette's fall was-- I'd like to see it. Anybody else?

 

 

Disclaimer:  Like you, I'm a romantic and, like you, I liked the Nick and Juliette relationship (until Juliette went batshit crazy).  However, I have trouble seeing them back together because of the blatant character assassination that the writers did is season 4.  Like so many other people here, I think the best outcome would be a single Nick or a Nick with a new character as a love interest.

 

That being said, I do think they are going to go back to Nick and Juliette (

and have said as much when they said last year that Nick and Juliette were endgame

).  Despite the emoticon-loving tweeters and FB'ers, the ratings just haven't been there to support "Nadalind" and I got the impression from interviews with both David Giuntoli and Claire Coffee that neither actor was fond of the idea either.   A skilled writer/writing team could probably write a story line that would work, but the idea of a reunited Nick and Juliette in THIS show just, well, scares me.  These writers--seasons 4 and 5, plus the creative team of Kouf/Greenwalt/Carpenter--have messed up so many things in this show that I think them trying to recreate Nick and Juliette would just be a disaster.  Add in the fact that there is a possibility of only 17 episodes to do it in, I don't know how they could successfully do it AND do it in a way that it doesn't overtake the show.

 

But, if it means the end of the Nadalind monstrosity, I'm there for a reunited Nick and Juliette.  Yes, those are my standards for this show.....

Edited April 26, 2016 by OtterMommy

[kathyk24]

I don't know how the writers can rehabilitate Juliette. She can't rebuild the trailer and bring back Nick's mom. I think the writers don't want to give Nick emotional range. In TV Guide David Guintolli stated that viewers wouldn't see Nick grieve because it would be boring. Mourning can be very moving I loved on Sanctuary Helen Magus grieving for her daughter Ashley. I don't know why they can't do that for Nick.

[Lii]

I just read that NBC has only ordered 13 episodes for next season. So I hope the writers start planning for an end-game.

 

LOLplanning. The keys, coins, Royals, Resistance, Verrat, magical babies, Wesen Council, HW, Black Claw, the maybe mole in the police department, Juliette's vet job, and Nick's zombie powers say what's up.

[OtterMommy]

I don't know how the writers can rehabilitate Juliette. She can't rebuild the trailer and bring back Nick's mom. I think the writers don't want to give Nick emotional range. In TV Guide David Guintolli stated that viewers wouldn't see Nick grieve because it would be boring. Mourning can be very moving I loved on Sanctuary Helen Magus grieving for her daughter Ashley. I don't know why they can't do that for Nick.

 

I agree with you about seeing the mourning.  Not only would it be (possibly) good for the show and for Nick's character, but it would make sense.  So far, very little this season makes any damn sense and so much of it is boring that I'm not so sure why they would be against mourning.

 

Also keep in mind that even though that came up in an "interview" with David Giuntoli, it was really from the creative team.  The actors are given talking points/scripts for these interviews so that they don't give anything away on the show (and that is not just for Grimm, but for pretty much any scripted TV show).  I would say that unless it is an off the cuff comment at an event, don't consider anything said to be from the actor who says it.

Edited April 26, 2016 by OtterMommy

[spaulding]

Quote

Disclaimer:  Like you, I'm a romantic and, like you, I liked the Nick and Juliette relationship (until Juliette went batshit crazy).  However, I have trouble seeing them back together because of the blatant character assassination that the writers did is season 4.  Like so many other people here, I think the best outcome would be a single Nick or a Nick with a new character as a love interest.

I can't stand that Nick's only options are Juliette and Adalind.  Lots of other women out there.  Plus, Nick has always been portrayed as some stand-up guy, so I can't imagine why he can't casually date.  If Nick went the loner route, he wouldn't have to go dark.  His close relationships keep him from being some loner vigilante.

Quote

LOLplanning. The keys, coins, Royals, Resistance, Verrat, magical babies, Wesen Council, HW, Black Claw, the maybe mole in the police department, Juliette's vet job, and Nick's zombie powers say what's up.

The Magic Stick(tm) is still a mystery. 

Quote

I don't know how the writers can rehabilitate Juliette. She can't rebuild the trailer and bring back Nick's mom. I think the writers don't want to give Nick emotional range. In TV Guide David Guintolli stated that viewers wouldn't see Nick grieve because it would be boring. Mourning can be very moving I loved on Sanctuary Helen Magus grieving for her daughter Ashley. I don't know why they can't do that for Nick.

I think that it's insulting for Guintoli to say that.  The Grimm audience can appreciate human complexities like grief and sorrow.  I think that showing grief, pain, inner struggle, etc. are character-building and that the audience appreciates it. 

Juliette doesn't deserve rehabilitation without some sense of punishment.  Same with Adalind.  Heck, everybody on this show deserves some kind of punishment for what they did.  Kidnapping a baby, burning the Grimmabago, etc.  Maybe that's why I'll all for a Forever Knight twist.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't understand how the writers are going to proceed with planning next season, when they might be done after the 13 episodes ordered, or not.  What's the battle plan for that situation? 

[Darklazr]

It is already a nightmare with how the show drops various plots only to add five more, so how in the heck are they going to write 13 episodes when they effed up 22?!

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Darklazr said:

It is already a nightmare with how the show drops various plots only to add five more, so how in the heck are they going to write 13 episodes when they effed up 22?!

I agree completely.  At this point, just pulling the plug would be a mercy.  I was hoping that, after the ratings this season has had, the creative team would come to their senses, but it doesn't look that way.  I'm already mostly out the door, but I'm about ready to wash my hands completely of this show.

[neuromom]

 Now that were back (Yay)  can someone please explain to me how Nick can "de-Hexen" Adalimd  with his blood, but not with all the other bodily fluids that they're exchanging while sleeping together? 

[OtterMommy]

A while ago, I came across a 2011 article talking about how NBC was using Social Media to promote Grimm and whip up enthusiasm for it before it aired.  I've tried to find this article again and couldn't locate it (if someone else finds it, please post it in case my memory is wrong) but I think that, looking back, we can tell now that Grimm was doomed before it ever began.

Most of the cast of the show was pretty much required to keep up a social presence and talk up the show very early on, even before it aired (for some reason, SWM was not one of these people--I think because he has a tendency to say what he actually thinks) and one thing that the powers that be wanted was to create almost a relationship between the show and the viewers.  In short, they wanted the viewers to pretty much tell them (the creators) what to do and they would keep the viewers happy.

To say this backfired is an understatement. I was going to say that the first 3 years were great, but then I remember season 2.  Season 2 was fabulous in one sense--the crimes of the week--but horrendous in another--Juliette and her amnesia/obsession.  But, towards the end of season 1, people wanted more from Juliette...so they got it.

I'm not sure if the writers really think they should be short order cooks, but look at the mess.  Of people who are interested in the show continuing, roughly 1/3 of them love Nick and Adalind and hate Juliette/Eve, 1/3 of them love Nick and Juliette/Eve and hate Adalind, and 1/3 hate both women (numbers are totally unscientific...just what I've witnessed on boards, social media, etc.)  They've created a situation that, no matter what they do, they've alienated 2/3 of their remaining audience.  Good going...

Plot wise, we're left with some sort of schizophrenic "compromise" between crimes of the week and longer arcs because...some people like the crimes of the week and some people like the longer arcs.  They've introduced plot points that initially sounded interesting, but now they can't write themselves out of.  They are nothing more than a tattered and threadbare flag, trying to catch which way the wind is blowing.

Probably the most successful single person producing television right now is Shonda Rhimes.  Love her or hate her, but she does own the most expensive night of network TV.  And she listens to what viewers think and I'm sure that she cares that she's producing "quality" stories (sorry, after the ghost sex several years ago, there will always be quotes around "quality" for her) but she does not give a fuck what her audience thinks should happen.  She's put characters together in relationships that audiences NEVER asked for (and, more often than not, audiences end up liking the pairings), she's broken up the "great love" relationships in the most devastating ways, and she's killed off characters that many viewers felt were the hearts of their shows.  I'm not saying she's a goddess of TV (again, ghost sex), but she is a far, far, far more successful than Kouf, Greenwalt, and Carpenter could ever dream of being.  Why?  Because she thinks things through...she has an idea, she develops it, and she takes responsibility for it.  KGC are able to do the first of those things...and that's it.

I don't think Grimm can be saved at this point.  I think if we could just wipe season 5 out of existence and give us a new season 5, maybe.  I don't even think pulling the shower curtain back to season 3...or 2...or 1 at this point would work.  And it is a shame...because the core of Grimm is (was) fantastic.  It was just in the wrong hands.

Getting off my soap box now....

[Lii]

Season 1 made me think Grimm was going to be one of my new favorite shows. Then a giant ass hole appeared in the floor of Juliet's house. 

[neuromom]

1 hour ago, Lii said:

Season 1 made me think Grimm was going to be one of my new favorite shows. Then a giant ass hole appeared in the floor of Juliet's house. 

And...that would be the hole that swallowed up all our hopes and dreams for what a great show this could have been. 

[Lii]

5 minutes ago, neuromom said:

And...that would be the hole that swallowed up all our hopes and dreams for what a great show this could have been. 

Our fun, great, unique show fell in the hole, and magical babies started spewing out of it. Adalind's magic hole is why we can't have nice things, guys.

[kathyk24]

I think the writers started writing a show about two groups of people human and Wesen and Nick's reaction to gaining power he never knew he had. Now Grimm is a political show between the Mayor's race and Black Claw and Nick is pushed to the side. Nick had good relationship with Hank, Juliette and Renard. Now Nick bas hardly any time with those characters thanks to Black Claw. I hope the writers don't make Diana harm Kelly. Nick would do anything to protect his baby and hurting Diana would cause Renard and Adalind to turn on him.

[Darklazr]

18 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

A while ago, I came across a 2011 article talking about how NBC was using Social Media to promote Grimm and whip up enthusiasm for it before it aired.  I've tried to find this article again and couldn't locate it (if someone else finds it, please post it in case my memory is wrong) but I think that, looking back, we can tell now that Grimm was doomed before it ever began.

Most of the cast of the show was pretty much required to keep up a social presence and talk up the show very early on, even before it aired (for some reason, SWM was not one of these people--I think because he has a tendency to say what he actually thinks) and one thing that the powers that be wanted was to create almost a relationship between the show and the viewers.  In short, they wanted the viewers to pretty much tell them (the creators) what to do and they would keep the viewers happy.

To say this backfired is an understatement. I was going to say that the first 3 years were great, but then I remember season 2.  Season 2 was fabulous in one sense--the crimes of the week--but horrendous in another--Juliette and her amnesia/obsession.  But, towards the end of season 1, people wanted more from Juliette...so they got it.

I'm not sure if the writers really think they should be short order cooks, but look at the mess.  Of people who are interested in the show continuing, roughly 1/3 of them love Nick and Adalind and hate Juliette/Eve, 1/3 of them love Nick and Juliette/Eve and hate Adalind, and 1/3 hate both women (numbers are totally unscientific...just what I've witnessed on boards, social media, etc.)  They've created a situation that, no matter what they do, they've alienated 2/3 of their remaining audience.  Good going...

Plot wise, we're left with some sort of schizophrenic "compromise" between crimes of the week and longer arcs because...some people like the crimes of the week and some people like the longer arcs.  They've introduced plot points that initially sounded interesting, but now they can't write themselves out of.  They are nothing more than a tattered and threadbare flag, trying to catch which way the wind is blowing.

Probably the most successful single person producing television right now is Shonda Rhimes.  Love her or hate her, but she does own the most expensive night of network TV.  And she listens to what viewers think and I'm sure that she cares that she's producing "quality" stories (sorry, after the ghost sex several years ago, there will always be quotes around "quality" for her) but she does not give a fuck what her audience thinks should happen.  She's put characters together in relationships that audiences NEVER asked for (and, more often than not, audiences end up liking the pairings), she's broken up the "great love" relationships in the most devastating ways, and she's killed off characters that many viewers felt were the hearts of their shows.  I'm not saying she's a goddess of TV (again, ghost sex), but she is a far, far, far more successful than Kouf, Greenwalt, and Carpenter could ever dream of being.  Why?  Because she thinks things through...she has an idea, she develops it, and she takes responsibility for it.  KGC are able to do the first of those things...and that's it.

I don't think Grimm can be saved at this point.  I think if we could just wipe season 5 out of existence and give us a new season 5, maybe.  I don't even think pulling the shower curtain back to season 3...or 2...or 1 at this point would work.  And it is a shame...because the core of Grimm is (was) fantastic.  It was just in the wrong hands.

Getting off my soap box now....

Excellent post.  The creator of How to Get Away with Murder talked about how Shonda does not give a fuck and used that approach as a way to write his show.  I was livid when Lexie and Sloane died, thrilled to see Izzy off my TV screen, had mixed feelings that George was dead and wasn't bothered with Derek's death.

Grimm writers (IMO) should have killed off Juliette at the end of s1 and allowed Nick to deal with the dangers of being a Grimm and how it impacted his life.  However, I get why the writers have kept some of the original cast because they like the actors, but it IS a business.

 I see a lot of Y&R and DOOL fans on social media celebrating the deaths of two characters that they have hated for years or less than a year!

There are only 13 episodes at this point for s6 and I don't see the show buying a clue to fix their issues.

We're about to see THREE hexenbiests with tonight's show and it annoys the hell out of me that Nick the leading character has been sidelined over and over.  Nick is now a guest on his own show!

[OtterMommy]

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That was my point.  The idea of Juliette being Kelly's mother is not a bad twist, but it needed to come out a LONG time ago...like when Kelly was born.  Now it's already out there and when/if it happens, it isn't going to have any impact whatsoever.  For a show that is supposed to be full of suspense and surprise, it is sadly lacking in both.

Honestly, the only "shocking twist" that was a twist or even remotely shocking to me, was the reappearance of Mama Grimm at the end of season 1.  Even with that--I was binge watching the show at that point and, had I been watching it week by week, I probably could have seen it coming (plus, dead parent reappearing is a pretty standard trope as I've discovered).  Nick as a zombie?  We knew that was going to happen for 2 episodes.  Nick losing his powers?  We saw that one coming for 3. Juliette going batshit crazy and being shot by Trubel?  Half a season (maybe not the Trubel part)?  Juliette not being dead?  Some of us knew that the moment the arrows hit her.

Despite having an original-ish premise, this show is incredible reliant of tired tropes that we've all seen and telescoping plots that kill any possible suspense.

 

Nick NOT losing his powers would have been the better twist or at the very least temporary and they came back on their own, BEFORE Elisabeth's spells went into play.  There would have been no need for the nasty role play sex scenes...eww.....

 

You know what, you're right!  It would have been a much better twist to have the whole build up at the end of season 3 that Adalind was going to take away Nick's powers...and then have something else happen.  Maybe Nick could have recognized that the person in front of him was not Juliette, maybe the real Juliette could have walked in, maybe Renard or Trubel could have gotten the potion to Nick...just something.

In my book club last month, we discussed a very popular book, one that is supposed to be incredibly shocking.  I had read it about a year before and then listened to it in advance of our meeting.  I was relieved to know that I was not the only one disappointed by the fact that they book turned out EXACTLY like I expected.  It followed every trope and it was, you know, SUBTLE!  In fact,I spent the majority of the book trying to figure out how it could not end the way I thought it would end when I was only a few chapters in (for the record, it ended exactly as I had suspected).  Now, if the author had decided that s/he would follow the very predictable path and then veer from it...you know, lull the reader into a sense of comfort and then pull the rug out from under them.

In Grimm, it seems like they pull out the rug before anyone walks in the room and then point at it and yell, "Hey!  Look!  Hardwood floors."  Ugh!

[Lii]

Sometimes there's a giant bottomless pit in the middle of the hardwood floor though, to be fair. SWERVE!!!

[Darklazr]

4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

You know what, you're right!  It would have been a much better twist to have the whole build up at the end of season 3 that Adalind was going to take away Nick's powers...and then have something else happen.  Maybe Nick could have recognized that the person in front of him was not Juliette, maybe the real Juliette could have walked in, maybe Renard or Trubel could have gotten the potion to Nick...just something.

In my book club last month, we discussed a very popular book, one that is supposed to be incredibly shocking.  I had read it about a year before and then listened to it in advance of our meeting.  I was relieved to know that I was not the only one disappointed by the fact that they book turned out EXACTLY like I expected.  It followed every trope and it was, you know, SUBTLE!  In fact,I spent the majority of the book trying to figure out how it could not end the way I thought it would end when I was only a few chapters in (for the record, it ended exactly as I had suspected).  Now, if the author had decided that s/he would follow the very predictable path and then veer from it...you know, lull the reader into a sense of comfort and then pull the rug out from under them.

In Grimm, it seems like they pull out the rug before anyone walks in the room and then point at it and yell, "Hey!  Look!  Hardwood floors."  Ugh!

I used to write soap opera fanfiction, so I have all of these ideas in my head...LOL.

Anywho, in my head, Renard realized Adalind was about to do something nasty since she had Juliette's hair and nightgown.  He called Nick and told him to get home, ASAP!  Nick arrives at home to find Renard inside his home and from there he clues the man in on doppelgangers and to be on the lookout for another Juliette in the form of Adalind.  

I will never understand why Renard did NOT clue Nick, Juliette and Rosalie in on Adalind stealing hair and nightgowns.  Sheesh...

[Lii]

Wait, he knew? How did I not remember this part? Did I block it? 

[Darklazr]

17 hours ago, Lii said:

Wait, he knew? How did I not remember this part? Did I block it? 

Adalind knocked Renard out with a vase and took off.  He woke up pissed off and then we see Adalind impersonating Juliette at the hotel, while real Juliette was at home hosting a dinner party for MonRosa with Nick.  Renard was just plain dumb in those pivotal scenes.  The man knew Adalind was dangerous and pissed off that Diana was gone and he never clued Nick in on the stolen hair and nightgown.

[Lii]

Was this around the time of that weird magic acid trip he had where giant hands were reaching in the top of his house to get him or some such nonsense that I completely forgot about until right now? Or was that a different time he got cursed with magical after-sex bullshit?

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, Lii said:

Was this around the time of that weird magic acid trip he had where giant hands were reaching in the top of his house to get him or some such nonsense that I completely forgot about until right now? Or was that a different time he got cursed with magical after-sex bullshit?

Adalind stole Juliette's hair and lingerie the day before Monroe and Rosalie's wedding.

[OtterMommy]

45 minutes ago, Lii said:

Was this around the time of that weird magic acid trip he had where giant hands were reaching in the top of his house to get him or some such nonsense that I completely forgot about until right now? Or was that a different time he got cursed with magical after-sex bullshit?

No, that was about a season later in the travesty of the second half of season 4.  What @Darklazr is referring to happened at the end of season 3.

[Lii]

I kind of feel like I should remember these things, but I also am kind of glad that I don't. It's all the same crap over and over anyways, just different magical after-sex curses with different people in different seasons. I probably shouldn't worry too much about not caring that I don't remember, I feel like. 

So this happened in S03. And the grabby hands in S04? What brought that after-sex curse on, then? And/or who, what, where and why? Was that related to the Jack the Ripper nonsense?

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, Lii said:

I kind of feel like I should remember these things, but I also am kind of glad that I don't. It's all the same crap over and over anyways, just different magical after-sex curses with different people in different seasons. I probably shouldn't worry too much about not caring that I don't remember, I feel like. 

So this happened in S03. And the grabby hands in S04? What brought that after-sex curse on, then? And/or who, what, where and why? Was that related to the Jack the Ripper nonsense?

The Jack the Ripper nonsense, surprisingly, did not have a sexual origin!  When Renard was shot by Ponyboy, died, and then revived by his mother and the double headed snake (see, not sexual at all!), the spirit of Jack the Ripper "hitched a ride" with him....although it took about half a season to manifest itself. The grabby hands were part of that whole mess.

[Lii]

Oh, that's right. I remembered it had something to do with coming back from the dead, just not what. Sounds legit. Wasn't that the first appearance of the hat bong, too?

So the Jack the Ripper nonsense and the Juliette amnesia nonsense are the only two storylines on this show that aren't related to magical sex somehow, right? And even during the Juliette amnesia, she was magically sexing Renard, so I guess that doesn't count either. God this show is stupid.

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, Lii said:

Oh, that's right. I remembered it had something to do with coming back from the dead, just not what. Sounds legit. Wasn't that the first appearance of the hat bong, too?

The hat bong first showed up when Adalind started brewing Polyjuice potion to become Juliette.  Renard found it in Adalind's storage unit and then showed it to his mom before he left town then, later, gave it to Monroe and Rosalee, and then somehow it ended up with Hadrian's Wall.  Did I miss a step somewhere?

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So the Jack the Ripper nonsense and the Juliette amnesia nonsense are the only two storylines on this show that aren't related to magical sex somehow, right? And even during the Juliette amnesia, she was magically sexing Renard, so I guess that doesn't count either. God this show is stupid.

Yeah, there was the Juliette/Renard sexing during the amnesia plot, and Renard got shot when he showed up too late to tell Nick not to sleep with anyone who looks like Juliette for a while....so there is that, too.... Nothing is too far from sex with this show....

[Lii]

Ohhhh, that's right. How did they find Adalind's storage unit? I'm sure there's some perfectly reasonable stupid reason.

[snarkbunny]

3 minutes ago, Lii said:

Ohhhh, that's right. How did they find Adalind's storage unit? I'm sure there's some perfectly reasonable stupid reason.

Renard had Wu follow Adelind, who tracked Adelind to the storage unit place.  Wu then checked with the owners and found a unit registered under Adelind's mother's name.

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, Lii said:

Ohhhh, that's right. How did they find Adalind's storage unit? I'm sure there's some perfectly reasonable stupid reason.

Actually, in this case, there is a perfectly reasonable non-stupid reason.  Wu did some sleuthing and found out that Katherine Schade had a storage unit. He told Renard, who told him not to report it to anyone, and then Renard went, broke into it, and found all the goods.

By the way, I realized I was wrong with how everything got where:

1 - The Hat bong and book (the goods) belonged to Katherine Schade, who had them in the storage unit.  Adalind did her brewing inside the unit itself.

2 - Renard goes to the unit, as detailed above, but only takes a vial of the potion, which Nick is supposed to drink (he doesn't...Renard gets shot, but Trubel takes the vial to Monroe and Rosalee's wedding, where she histrionically interrupts the whole thing, everyone woges, and realizes she's a Grimm...and chaos ensues).

3 - When Renard comes to after his encounter with the double-headed snake (even when this show isn't sexual, it still sounds like it was written by 13 year old boys!), he tells his mother about the storage unit.  She takes Monroe and Rosalee there to get the goods and they take them back to the Spice Shop.

4 - Once the second round of switcheroo sex takes place, Elizabeth gives the goods to Renard, to keep safe.

5 - About 10 episodes later, Renard brings the goods to the Spice Shop so that Rosalee can try and find a cure to his spontaneous bleeding and murdering habit.

6 - Rosalee then uses the goods, or at least the hat, to make the suppression potion out of Katherine's corpse.

7 - The goods, or at least the hat, show up with Hadrian's Wall.

Again, am I missing something between #6 and #7?

[Lii]

Maybe it's a different hat bong? Because the only other thing I can think of is Juliette straight up stealing it from the Spice Shop when she threw her murder tantrum when they tried to get her to drink the suppression potion. I don't think she ever went there between that time and the time JuliEve abruptly went there for her abrupt interrogation of Rosalee a few episodes back.

Between #3 and #4, so did Renard just take all the stuff home with him from the Spice Shop when they were done with it? Seems random.

Do you guys ever wish you didn't remember all this crap?

[merylinkid]

I feel like I should be taking a hit off a bong, hat or otherwise after reading that.