Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[Darklazr]

I'm just confused on why Adalind gets a murder pass and Juliette doesn't. Are hexenbiests responsible for their actions or not? I feel like the writers are trying to say everything bad Adalind did was because she was a hexenbiest but a lot if the evil stuff she did, she did as a human. A plain ole human.

Juliette on the other hand didn't ask for anything that happened to her. She was turned into a hexenbiest against her will and I still don't understand why that suddenly made her evil.

The writers only had her burn down the trailer and kill Nick's mother to make her death more acceptable.

I didn't always love or like Juliette but I think it's sad that she's the ultimate casualty of Adalind's machinations and no one cares.

 

Here's my 2 cents.

 

1) Once Nick, Hank and Wu figured out that Renard was acting weird, the Captain admitted that he was having blackouts and asked for help.   The "team" worked to find a cure for Renard and he was still horrified at killing three women as Jack the Ripper.

 

2) Juliette would rather run to Renard instead of asking her boyfriend and friends for help when she knew it was putting the Captain in an awkward position.  She dumped Nick (IMO) so she had a clear conscience in screwing Renard without being labeled a cheater.

 

3) Nick and company tried repeatedly to help Juliette and she tries to kill Monroe, which should have been the last straw, but no the chick burned down the trailer and set up Momma Grimm to be killed.

 

4) Adalind is a just plain crazy!

 

5) I think Juliette IS on a power trip as a hexenbiest and knows that she can kill anyone at any time, so I hope this current body swap has her losing all of her powers and she has to atone for Kelly and the neighbors being killed.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Darklazr

[blugirlami21]

I dunno I think everything she did and continues to do can be traced back to being forcefully changed into a hexenbiest. Its all about character imo. Juliette would have never done any of that otherwise. I can't say the same for Adalind.

[OtterMommy]

Here's my 2 cents.

 

1) Once Nick, Hank and Wu figured out that Renard was acting weird, the Captain admitted that he was having blackouts and asked for help.   The "team" worked to find a cure for Renard and he was still horrified at killing three women as Jack the Ripper.

 

2) Juliette would rather run to Renard instead of asking her boyfriend and friends for help when she knew it was putting the Captain in an awkward position.  She dumped Nick (IMO) so she had a clear conscience in screwing Renard without being labeled a cheater.

 

3) Nick and company tried repeatedly to help Juliette and she tries to kill Monroe, which should have been the last straw, but no the chick burned down the trailer and set up Momma Grimm to be killed.

 

4) Adalind is a just plain crazy!

 

5) I think Juliette IS on a power trip as a hexenbiest and knows that she can kill anyone at any time, so I hope this current body swap has her losing all of her powers and she has to atone for Kelly and the neighbors being killed.

 

There is an article a psychologist wrote after season 4 ended discussing the Juliette situation.  I don't agree with all of it--the pysch stuff I don't question (she is the expert), but I don't agree with all her interpretations of what happened on the show.  Anyway, here's the article:

 

http://www.superhero-therapy.com/2015/05/psychology-of-juliette-grimm/

 

The gist of it is that Nick, Monroe, and Rosalee mishandled everything, which is what led to Juliette going batshit crazy.  Again, I don't agree with all that--but I do think that, in a broad sense, she is right that Nick never tried to understand Juilette, he just tried to fix her (at the risk of sounding sexist, I don't think this is an usual response from a man confronted with his female partner's predicaments.  Frankly, my husband would have acted the same way).

 

But, back to your points.

 

First of all, I think you are giving Renard too much credit.  It wasn't until Nick, Hank, and Wu presented him with pretty damning evidence that he had been killing women (and the realization that "he" killed someone he knew) before he ever agreed to help.  He did go to Monroe and Rosalee, but he never really gave them the details of what was going on.

 

I don't necessarily blame Juliette for going to Renard first.  Nick had just told her that "one less hexenbiest in the world would not be a bad thing."  And, despite the fact that Nick has never been more than completely ineffectual up against a hexenbiest, he made no secret that he thought it was the lowest of the low.  Juliette's plan was to take care of the problem so that Nick would not have to.  Instead, she was told there was no cure and she would just have to live with it.

 

Honestly, season 4b was so badly written that I just can't really blame any character for anything.  Instead, I blame the morons in the writing room.  I do agree with you, though, that if they are going back to Juliette and Nick, they need to strip Juliette of her powers.  They've spent a season and half showing us that they have no fucking clue how to handle her as a hexenbiest, so they need to go back to what they can (sort of ) do.

Edited April 3, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

Yes, Renard sought help after Nick, Hank and Wu came to his house and told him what was going on, BUT he did realize how dangerous the situation was and actively wanting to be fixed.  I know poor Wu was knocked in the head and stuffed in the back of the police car and Renard was in full Jack the Ripper mode,,,LOL,,,  However, Nick, Wu, Hank, Rosalie and Monroe took care of Renard at the Spice Shop.

 

Of course Nick the man wanted to fix the situation and his comment about one less Hexenbiest was about crazy ass Adalind. Juliette spent years with Nick and after he hid being a Grimm, her hypocritical ass turned around and hid being a hexenbiest instead of laying it on the line that she was in over her head and desperately needed help.

 

For me, I found Renard at least willing to get fixed versus Juliette's refusal to drink the potion.  

 

In order for Nick to take Juliette back (which I hope never happens), she needs to lose all of her powers and atone for setting up Momma Grimm and the neighbors, plus torching the trailer.  The last thing I want to see is some happy moment where Nick, Hank, Wu, Rosalie and Monroe all hug it out after Juliette is back to normal, because that is just as bad as being Adalind.

[OtterMommy]

Of course Nick the man wanted to fix the situation and his comment about one less Hexenbiest was about crazy ass Adalind. Juliette spent years with Nick and after he hid being a Grimm, her hypocritical ass turned around and hid being a hexenbiest instead of laying it on the line that she was in over her head and desperately needed help.

 

For me, I found Renard at least willing to get fixed versus Juliette's refusal to drink the potion.  

 

 

Except that Juliette was willing to get her problem fixed.  She went to Henrietta, who told her that nothing could be done.  Then she went through the magically-translating-from-German-to-English-book looking for a cure.  By the time the corpse juice came into play, she was already "embracing what she had become" which, from what Adalind said, was a natural development for hexenbiests.  Had the corpse juice shown up earlier, she most likely would have drunk it.

 

Not that it would have done any good as--surprise! surprise!--it's effects are temporary....

[Darklazr]

Juliette should have told Nick what was going on after her first woge and still could have sought out help from Henrietta via Renard.  I remember the scene in Renard's bedroom when Juliette said she was "normal" before meeting the Scoobie gang and yet she could have said all of this after Monroe was rescued!

[merylinkid]

Juliette did not choose to become a hexenbeist.  Okay fine.   BUt she is responsible for everything she CHOSE to do after that.   Remember her going to a bar and pretty much blowing the place up?   Remember her trying to make Nick shoot Monroe?    Setting up Momma Grimm is one thing.   She's a Grimm, she knew the risks.  The innocent neighbors?  Oh hell no.   I guess Juliette liked being screwed over so much by living with a Grim, she thought she would share with the neighbors.   Again, this is the writers' fault.   They could have shown her fighting her nature a little more.  

 

Or god forbid, they have people TALK to each other.   Instead we get Juliette woging in front of Nick, declaring he would never love her and that was it.   Now we have Adalind hiding she has her powers back because it might interfere with happy families with Nick.   Not to mention a little sharing of info between Renard and the gang might shortcut this whole Black Claw story a whole hell of a lot.   Which would a Very Good Thing.

[OtterMommy]

Juliette should have told Nick what was going on after her first woge and still could have sought out help from Henrietta via Renard.  I remember the scene in Renard's bedroom when Juliette said she was "normal" before meeting the Scoobie gang and yet she could have said all of this after Monroe was rescued!

 

Again, to be fair....the first thing Juliette did after her first woge was call Nick (and get his voicemail).  The next time she spoke to him, she tried to tell him, but he cut her off and told her that Monroe had been kidnapped and he was bringing Rosalee over.  Then there was that whole Wesenrein mess which, let's face it, it is a good thing that Juilette didn't drop her bombshell during all that.  

 

Now whether she should have told Nick instead of going to Renard--honestly, I can see both sides of that argument.  But, one of the first things Henrietta told her was NOT to tell Nick.  Juliette was a terrified woman and the one person who could supposedly help her told her not to say anything...so I get that.  Once Henrietta told Juliette her condition was permanent, Juliette again tried to call Nick, only to have the phone ripped out her hand by the Maurachaussee.

 

Honestly, I can't get behind it being Juliette's fault for not telling Nick right away.  She did try, on at least 3 occasions, and was also explicitly instructed NOT to tell him.  Now, I will admit to being frustrated with Nick over this.  I'm not trying to pull the "blame the victim" thing here, but this goes back to Nick not having any agency.  Nick knew something was up with Juliette--the show pounded that point home on more than one occasion--but he never asked her about it.  And by asking her about it, I mean something like, "Hey, babe.  You seem a little stressed.  Is something bothering you?"  All he would do is grimace and then go back to whatever and ignore the situation.  I remember yelling, "Oh holy crap, Nick!  Man up!" at the screen more than once over this.  

 

But, again, Nick doesn't make anything happen.  He just sits around and lets it happen to him.

Juliette did not choose to become a hexenbeist.  Okay fine.   BUt she is responsible for everything she CHOSE to do after that.   Remember her going to a bar and pretty much blowing the place up?   Remember her trying to make Nick shoot Monroe?    Setting up Momma Grimm is one thing.   She's a Grimm, she knew the risks.  The innocent neighbors?  Oh hell no.   I guess Juliette liked being screwed over so much by living with a Grim, she thought she would share with the neighbors.   Again, this is the writers' fault.   They could have shown her fighting her nature a little more.  

 

I'm not arguing that at all.  I am arguing that it is frustrating that Juilette is being held responsible (as she should be) but Adalind is not being held responsible for anything she did.  Either being a hexenbiest makes you do bad things and the 'biest is the one responsible, or the character (Juliette AND Adalind) are ultimately responsible.  It is the disparity that drives me crazy!

Edited April 4, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

For me, it all boils down to being honest and trusting the person that lives in your house!  Come, on!  Nick and Juliette finally got passed him hiding his heritage and they were now on equal footing, and she turned around and hid being a hexenbiest.

 

Nick was in love with Juliette and not Adalind from s1 to s4, so it makes no sense at all that he would suddenly dump her behind once he realized how she ended up being a hexenbiest.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Darklazr

[Darklazr]

Again, to be fair....the first thing Juliette did after her first woge was call Nick (and get his voicemail).  The next time she spoke to him, she tried to tell him, but he cut her off and told her that Monroe had been kidnapped and he was bringing Rosalee over.  Then there was that whole Wesenrein mess which, let's face it, it is a good thing that Juilette didn't drop her bombshell during all that.  

 

Now whether she should have told Nick instead of going to Renard--honestly, I can see both sides of that argument.  But, one of the first things Henrietta told her was NOT to tell Nick.  Juliette was a terrified woman and the one person who could supposedly help her told her not to say anything...so I get that.  Once Henrietta told Juliette her condition was permanent, Juliette again tried to call Nick, only to have the phone ripped out her hand by the Maurachaussee.

 

Honestly, I can't get behind it being Juliette's fault for not telling Nick right away.  She did try, on at least 3 occasions, and was also explicitly instructed NOT to tell him.  Now, I will admit to being frustrated with Nick over this.  I'm not trying to pull the "blame the victim" thing here, but this goes back to Nick not having any agency.  Nick knew something was up with Juliette--the show pounded that point home on more than one occasion--but he never asked her about it.  And by asking her about it, I mean something like, "Hey, babe.  You seem a little stressed.  Is something bothering you?"  All he would do is grimace and then go back to whatever and ignore the situation.  I remember yelling, "Oh holy crap, Nick!  Man up!" at the screen more than once over this.  

 

But, again, Nick doesn't make anything happen.  He just sits around and lets it happen to him.

 

I'm not arguing that at all.  I am arguing that it is frustrating that Juilette is being held responsible (as she should be) but Adalind is not being held responsible for anything she did.  Either being a hexenbiest makes you do bad things and the 'biest is the one responsible, or the character (Juliette AND Adalind) are ultimately responsible.  It is the disparity that drives me crazy!

 

I think Adalind should be held accountable for trying to kill Marie on Renard's behalf, raping Hank, Wu eating Adalind's cookies, poisoning her poor cat, putting Juliette in a coma, manipulating and stealing Eric and Sean's sperm, having Frau Pech killed, using Frau Pech's dead body to regain her powers, smearing Frau Pech's blood all over her pregnant stomach which was nasty as hell, raping Nick and giving us a robotic hexenbiest, not using birth control or condoms when she raped Nick.  So, no Adalind does NOT get a pass.  I still say the show should have punished Adalind by killing off Diana or turning Diana into Frau Pech like another poster suggested in one thread.

 

Juliette's crimes are just as bad as Adalind's, which is why the show will reunite her and Nick before it goes off the air.  If Nick can screw Adalind at this point, why would being with Juliette be such a big deal?!  Seriously.  It is obvious that the writers don't see the characters the same way as the fans, so they will continue down this road until Grimm goes off the air.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Darklazr

[merylinkid]

Presuming for the sake of argument that Juliette did try to tell Nick, why was she unable to do so?   Because the writers set up damn fool contrived situations that kept her from telling him.   These are not real people in real life situations.   These are characters in a tv show.   They only have the agency that the writers give them in a given situation.   Sadly, the writers on this show let the plot drive the characters not the characters drive the plot.   So we have stolid, nice guy Nick, who is in a long term relationshp with Juliette ignoring that something is wrong.   We have smart, capable Julietter who is in a long term relationship with Nick refusing to discuss things with her partner.   We have everyone just ignoring all the myriad really really really bad things Adadlind did because now she is supposed to be playing happy families with Nick.   

 

We could have a lot of the same things happening -- Juliette embracing her dark side anyway, etc. but lot better stories if the writers would just bloody remember who the hell their characters are.

[OtterMommy]

Presuming for the sake of argument that Juliette did try to tell Nick, why was she unable to do so?   Because the writers set up damn fool contrived situations that kept her from telling him.   These are not real people in real life situations.   These are characters in a tv show.   They only have the agency that the writers give them in a given situation.   Sadly, the writers on this show let the plot drive the characters not the characters drive the plot.   So we have stolid, nice guy Nick, who is in a long term relationshp with Juliette ignoring that something is wrong.   We have smart, capable Julietter who is in a long term relationship with Nick refusing to discuss things with her partner.   We have everyone just ignoring all the myriad really really really bad things Adadlind did because now she is supposed to be playing happy families with Nick.   

 

We could have a lot of the same things happening -- Juliette embracing her dark side anyway, etc. but lot better stories if the writers would just bloody remember who the hell their characters are.

 

I agree completely.  I honestly can't think of any other show I've seen with such crappy character development.  I'm sure there have been shows...I just haven't seen them ever.  I can think of 5 or 6 dozen mediocre novelists with some really bad novels to their name who could improve this show with minimal effort.

 

Which comes back to this:  Why does NBC put up with this?  I would like to believe that there is sort of a quality threshold for a network show and this season, and the 2nd half of last season, should be below that.  Apparently, NBC likes the show well enough that they want to keep it, but they continue to accept this sub-par writing.  I would think that if they wanted this show to succeed, they would have cleaned house.  Instead, they give Kouf and Greenwalt a development deal.  Really?

[blugirlami21]

I think that was and is the most frustrating thing about the Juliette situation. The writers gave Nick, one of the nicest, most understanding grimms ever, an extreme, vocal prejudice against hexenbiests. Exactly when his girlfriend was turning into one. He also managed to mention it every time she tried to tell him about it. If being a hexenbiest makes you evil against your will, how can I hold Juliette accountable for anything she did after she became one?

When everyone has a five second rebound rate on this show, I can forgive Juliette for what she did quite easily. The writing is so inconsistent that both her crimes and Adalind's crimes hold very little meaning to me.

I'm not sure what the plan is for Juliette. I would like for her to be reformed and cured from her hexenbiestism but I don't feel like anyone is fighting in her corner for that to happen.

Original recipe Nick would be fighting in her corner. I would like to think Hank and Monroe would too.

Its a totally different show than when it started but not in a good way.

[OtterMommy]

Original recipe Nick would be fighting in her corner. I would like to think Hank and Monroe would too.

Its a totally different show than when it started but not in a good way.

 

As would Rosalee..and sometimes she sort of does, except when she's singing the praises of Adalind.  Again, because that makes no sense whatsoever.  

 

The only person whose lack of empathy towards Juliette I understand is Monroe's--and only because in a surprising turn of acceptable writing, they actually explained that.  Monroe felt, when he heard Juliette was dead, that it was better her than Nick.  He's upset for what she did against the trailer, against Rosalee, and against Nick.  He doesn't trust her and he doesn't trust the "Eve" thing.  It makes sense.

 

Of course, then he goes and is sort of supportive of the Adalind thing and I lose trust in him....

[Darklazr]

I think that was and is the most frustrating thing about the Juliette situation. The writers gave Nick, one of the nicest, most understanding grimms ever, an extreme, vocal prejudice against hexenbiests. Exactly when his girlfriend was turning into one. He also managed to mention it every time she tried to tell him about it. If being a hexenbiest makes you evil against your will, how can I hold Juliette accountable for anything she did after she became one?

When everyone has a five second rebound rate on this show, I can forgive Juliette for what she did quite easily. The writing is so inconsistent that both her crimes and Adalind's crimes hold very little meaning to me.

I'm not sure what the plan is for Juliette. I would like for her to be reformed and cured from her hexenbiestism but I don't feel like anyone is fighting in her corner for that to happen.

Original recipe Nick would be fighting in her corner. I would like to think Hank and Monroe would too.

Its a totally different show than when it started but not in a good way.

 

Nick had reasons to hate Adalind from the very start and he seemed perfectly fine with Renard's mother and had no issues with Henrietta.  Adalind was a villain from day one and Juliette CHOSE to do the things that she did including betraying Nick, Kelly, etc..

[OtterMommy]

Nick had reasons to hate Adalind from the very start and he seemed perfectly fine with Renard's mother and had no issues with Henrietta.  Adalind was a villain from day one and Juliette CHOSE to do the things that she did including betraying Nick, Kelly, etc..

 

Actually, I think that Nick had some pretty real trust issues with Henrietta and I don't know if I'd say he was "fine" with Elizabeth--I think he knew he needed her to get his Grimm back and was willing to put his hexenbiest feelings aside for that.

[Darklazr]

Elisabeth did NOT have to help Nick regain his Grimm powers, period.  

 

Renard helped Juliette because of what Adalind did to her and Nick and was clearly uncomfortable with his employee's girlfriend wanting to meet with him privately at his home of all places!  Ugh.  I really wish Renard had met with Nick after Juliette left his house and told him what was going on and that he did not want a repeat of keeping lies and secrets, so the couple needed to deal with the fallout of getting his Grimm powers back and leave him the eff out of the entire mess.

 

Renard must have told his mother that Nick was not your average Grimm that ran round killing wesen on sight, so she helped him regain his powers and Kelly was protecting Diana.

[OtterMommy]

Elisabeth did NOT have to help Nick regain his Grimm powers, period.  

 

This is one of those cases where you need to define "have to."  No, she did not have to.  Her life would have gone on as it had been going if she didn't.  But...

 

It was important to her son that he have a Grimm on his side.  Nick was also some sort of protection, I guess?, for Renard against the Royals. It was to her son's advantage for Nick to regain his powers.

 

Also, she wanted her granddaughter--her granddaughter who was with Nick's mother.  There could have come a time when Nick would have been good tool/bargaining chip for her to get Diana.  So, helping him would put him in her debt.

 

No, Elizabeth did not "have to" help Nick, but she certainly didn't do it out of the goodness of her heart, either.  She did it for Renard and she did it for herself.  She did NOT do it for Nick--and, let's face it, everyone involved knew that.

 

(Also, I have a suspicion we may be seeing Elizabeth before this season is out....)

Edited April 5, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

Why would Renard need Nick's protection from the Royal's?  Renard originally wanted Marie's key and gave it back because he told Kelly that Nick was a lot more important than a key.  Yes, having a Grimm working for Renard in the beginning meant having an advantage over his family in Vienna, but now it's just normal police wesen cases of the week.  I have no idea why Nick did not tell Renard about going to Germany since he now had all of the keys, since the man had shown zero interest now that Eric and his father were dead.

 

We can agree to disagree on Elisabeth's role in helping Nick regain his powers, her focus was clearly on her son and finding her granddaughter.

[OtterMommy]

Why would Renard need Nick's protection from the Royal's?  Renard originally wanted Marie's key and gave it back because he told Kelly that Nick was a lot more important than a key.  Yes, having a Grimm working for Renard in the beginning meant having an advantage over his family in Vienna, but now it's just normal police wesen cases of the week.  I have no idea why Nick did not tell Renard about going to Germany since he now had all of the keys, since the man had shown zero interest now that Eric and his father were dead.

 

We can agree to disagree on Elisabeth's role in helping Nick regain his powers, her focus was clearly on her son and finding her granddaughter.

 

Replying over in the Renard thread....

[icewolf]

It looks like Limitless probably won't get renewed for another season. For a Tuesday show, has been getting Friday level ratings for CBS.

 

1.1 is what Hawaii Five-0 has been getting on Friday nights.

 

Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio can still return as a still living Nick's mom! Who cares if it doesn't make sense, the writers had Nick finding 20 Grimm books after losing his own.

[OtterMommy]

It looks like Limitless probably won't get renewed for another season. For a Tuesday show, has been getting Friday level ratings for CBS.

 

1.1 is what Hawaii Five-0 has been getting on Friday nights.

 

Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio can still return as a still living Nick's mom! Who cares if it doesn't make sense, the writers had Nick finding 20 Grimm books after losing his own.

 

Considering they've had 3 regular, main characters killed and THEY ARE STILL ALL THERE (Nick = zombified,  then Renard and Juliette), I can't say that this isn't a possibility.  Still, beheadings are hard to come back from.

 

On the other hand, I'd love to see Mama Grimm's face when she finds out what Nick has let his life become.

[icewolf]

Considering they've had 3 regular, main characters killed and THEY ARE STILL ALL THERE (Nick = zombified,  then Renard and Juliette), I can't say that this isn't a possibility.  Still, beheadings are hard to come back from.

 

On the other hand, I'd love to see Mama Grimm's face when she finds out what Nick has let his life become.

 

Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio was smart to take the role on Limitless, a main role is ALWAYS better than a guest role on another show. Better to take the chance even if it just last one season.

 

I blame the writers for screwing up Kelly's plot by ripping off Seven with the head in the box thing, preventing future appearances for Kelly unless of course they reveal the death was a fake out. I think after the writers found out MEM wasn't available anymore after joining Limitless, they took the easy way out and killed the character.

 

Just like the writers probably decided to burn the trailer when they found out putting the trailer in that wooded area was costing too much for filming.

Edited April 7, 2016 by icewolf

[OtterMommy]

I blame the writers for screwing up Kelly's plot by ripping off Seven with the head in the box thing, preventing future appearances for Kelly unless of course they reveal the death was a fake out. I think after the writers found out MEM wasn't available anymore after joining Limitless, they took the easy way out and killed the character.

 

I agree completely.  I think killing a character should be a very deeply considered thing.  Well, on this show, as I said...killing a character really doesn't mean anything.  But, yeah, I honestly cannot think of any conceivable way that they could bring back Kelly at this point without it reeking of desperation and requiring a suspension of disbelief that I don't think anyone can achieve.  And she didn't need to be killed--she had been on the show for, what, 5 episodes in 4 seasons?  Why?  Because they wanted to vilify Juliette even more?  They were that desperate to push Nick and Adalind?  Someone with some say didn't like MEM and didn't want her back on the show ever?

 

In a broader sense, the fact that this show is what it is--a show with a fair amount of danger and at least one death per episode--and the fact that we've gone almost 5 seasons without a non-guest star character dying (by dying...I mean dead...never to return) is pretty ridiculous.  I don't think they need to kill any of the main characters,  but someone like Franco.  Or, if Harper was going to just disappear, why not kill her? (Not that I wanted her gone--she was awesome!)

 

My interpretation of this, and you can write it off to me just being me, is that this is yet another example on how the show just can't commit to anything.  For the love of all that is holy, they can't even make death stick!  They have villains who can't be villains, a hero who really isn't much a hero, and a bromance that is rolled out every 5 or 6 episodes just to keep people from complaining about its absence.

 

I'm glad that Grimm got a season 6.  I'd be even happier if the press release came out that it would also have a new creative team for season 6--one that actually has the cajones to write real story.

Edited April 7, 2016 by OtterMommy

[merylinkid]

Sex on Grimm through the seasons:

 

Season 1 - Nick takes Adalind's powers by fighting her and dripping bodily fluids into her mouth.

Season 2:   After finally coming out of her coma, Juliette is obsessed with Renard.

Season 3:   Oh god, season 3.   Adalind pretends to be Juliette so she can take Nick's powers by having sex with him.

Season 4:   Juliette takes a potion to make her into Adalind to have sex with Nick so he can have his powers back.   She turns into a hexenbeist and gets the neighbors killed.   

Season 5:   Juliette turns into Renard so she can get information out of his campaign worker.   Campaign worker tries to have sex with Renard/Juliette.   Juliette doesn't say no, but the campaign worker also doesn't catch the signals of "not tonight dear I have a headache."    Who would be forcing whom in that scenario?

 

Honestly, at this point the writers can't even claim they don't realize how they are treating sex on this show.   There is just too much of it with forced/deceptive/obsessive sex.    

[Darklazr]

Yes, it is possible to bring Momma Grimm back from the dead.

 

1) Little Diana was in on the whole scam to make everyone think that Momma Grimm was the one beheaded by Kenneth.  

2) The woman that died was a lookalike from the resistance with a terminal brain cancer and she chose to be financially compensated for her death in order to help her husband and small child.

3) If not dead Juliette Eve can be written as a badass, Momma Grimm can come back from the dead and kick some ass!

[neuromom]

Yes, it is possible to bring Momma Grimm back from the dead.

 

1) Little Diana was in on the whole scam to make everyone think that Momma Grimm was the one beheaded by Kenneth.  

2) The woman that died was a lookalike from the resistance with a terminal brain cancer and she chose to be financially compensated for her death in order to help her husband and small child.

3) If not dead Juliette Eve can be written as a badass, Momma Grimm can come back from the dead and kick some ass!

Yes! Mama Grimm needs to come back to kick some ass! Starting with the writers....for the horrendous treatment of sex as Merylinkid mentioned above!

[OtterMommy]

Season 5:   Juliette turns into Renard so she can get information out of his campaign worker.   Campaign worker tries to have sex with Renard/Juliette.   Juliette doesn't say no, but the campaign worker also doesn't catch the signals of "not tonight dear I have a headache."    Who would be forcing whom in that scenario?

 

Honestly, at this point the writers can't even claim they don't realize how they are treating sex on this show.   There is just too much of it with forced/deceptive/obsessive sex.    

 

This is what I was thinking about.  After not having watched this, but reading what people have posted here, it definitely sounds like Rachel was coming on quite strong.  So, let's just say, Evenard was able to, ahem, carry through ...what exactly would have happened:

1 - Rachel rapes Eve, because Eve didn't want it to happen and Rachel forced it...

2 - Rachel rapes Renard, because even thought it was actually Eve "s/he" didn't want to have sex

3 - Eve rapes Rachel because, even though Rachel initiated it, she didn't consent to having sex with Eve, but with Renard

4 - It's consensual rape*** and Rachel, Eve, and Renard are all raped, with Rachel and Eve both being victims AND perpetrators

 

 

I honestly can not think of a single explanation that would make this all okay.  So, congrats? Grimm, for stooping to a level so low that it just can't be explained.

 

***ETA: I re-read this and am pretty disgusted with myself that I used the term "consensual rape."  However, I really can't think of another term to use.  So, bear with me--I hate that as much as you do...

Edited April 11, 2016 by OtterMommy

[neuromom]

This is what I was thinking about.  After not having watched this, but reading what people have posted here, it definitely sounds like Rachel was coming on quite strong.  So, let's just say, Evenard was able to, ahem, carry through ...what exactly would have happened:

1 - Rachel rapes Eve, because Eve didn't want it to happen and Rachel forced it...

2 - Rachel rapes Renard, because even thought it was actually Eve "s/he" didn't want to have sex

3 - Eve rapes Rachel because, even though Rachel initiated it, she didn't consent to having sex with Eve, but with Renard

4 - It's consensual rape and Rachel, Eve, and Renard are all raped, with Rachel and Eve both being victims AND perpetrators

 

 

I honestly can not think of a single explanation that would make this all okay.  So, congrats? Grimm, for stooping to a level so low that it just can't be explained.

Nice explanation! And it so makes my head hurt! Sometimes I wish they would just break the "fourth wall" - just so I can see all the actors "WTF!" Reactions to the stuff they have to play. Or, just have someone with a camera filming the actors as they receive their scripts and read them the first time.

[RachelKM]

Sex on Grimm through the seasons:

 

Season 1 - Nick takes Adalind's powers by fighting her and dripping bodily fluids into her mouth.

Season 2:   After finally coming out of her coma, Juliette is obsessed with Renard.

Season 3:   Oh god, season 3.   Adalind pretends to be Juliette so she can take Nick's powers by having sex with him.

Season 4:   Juliette takes a potion to make her into Adalind to have sex with Nick so he can have his powers back.   She turns into a hexenbeist and gets the neighbors killed.   

Season 5:   Juliette turns into Renard so she can get information out of his campaign worker.   Campaign worker tries to have sex with Renard/Juliette.   Juliette doesn't say no, but the campaign worker also doesn't catch the signals of "not tonight dear I have a headache."    Who would be forcing whom in that scenario?

 

Honestly, at this point the writers can't even claim they don't realize how they are treating sex on this show.   There is just too much of it with forced/deceptive/obsessive sex.    

Right?  And we can add to Season 1 Adalind magic ruffying Hank for however many months while they dated (not to mention what happened to Woo and his rug). 

[RachelKM]

This is what I was thinking about.  After not having watched this, but reading what people have posted here, it definitely sounds like Rachel was coming on quite strong.  So, let's just say, Evenard was able to, ahem, carry through ...what exactly would have happened:

1 - Rachel rapes Eve, because Eve didn't want it to happen and Rachel forced it...

2 - Rachel rapes Renard, because even thought it was actually Eve "s/he" didn't want to have sex

3 - Eve rapes Rachel because, even though Rachel initiated it, she didn't consent to having sex with Eve, but with Renard

4 - It's consensual rape*** and Rachel, Eve, and Renard are all raped, with Rachel and Eve both being victims AND perpetrators

 

 

I honestly can not think of a single explanation that would make this all okay.  So, congrats? Grimm, for stooping to a level so low that it just can't be explained.

 

***ETA: I re-read this and am pretty disgusted with myself that I used the term "consensual rape."  However, I really can't think of another term to use.  So, bear with me--I hate that as much as you do...

I had a reaction to the term "consensual rape" but also had difficulty articulating another term.  I guess at Rachel's end it's sort of akin to rape by deception in that it's invalid consent based on misinformation. But I still don't know of a word for it.  Eve would be sort of submitting reluctantly to avoid consequences of which, by design, Rachel is unaware.  Ugh... whatever the terms, the squick factor is off the charts and this show has basically violated 70% of the characters' bodily integrity and/or sexual agency, some more than once and in more than one way.

Edited April 11, 2016 by RachelKM

[merylinkid]

I get where you are going with consensual rape.   Not the greatest term, but you weren't trying to be offensive, so you no big deal.   But I think what we are going for here is mutual rape.   Nobody gave knowing consent to sex in this situation.   Honestly, if you can't define it, you shouldn't be writing about it.   But the writers are clearly working out all their girl on girl, S & M fantasies with this show.

[Darklazr]

I guess a simple "no" from fake Renard was out of the question?  Fake Renard could have shut Rachel down by telling her it was time to discuss BC plans and move the discussion into the living room.

 

Rachel is the one that made the sexual moves toward Renard in her office, in his car, and now at his home, so fake Renard should have picked up on her aggressiveness and shut her down.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Darklazr

[OtterMommy]

Sex on Grimm through the seasons:

Season 1 - Nick takes Adalind's powers by fighting her and dripping bodily fluids into her mouth.

Season 2:   After finally coming out of her coma, Juliette is obsessed with Renard.

Season 3:   Oh god, season 3.   Adalind pretends to be Juliette so she can take Nick's powers by having sex with him.

Season 4:   Juliette takes a potion to make her into Adalind to have sex with Nick so he can have his powers back.   She turns into a hexenbeist and gets the neighbors killed.  

Season 5:   Juliette turns into Renard so she can get information out of his campaign worker.   Campaign worker tries to have sex with Renard/Juliette.   Juliette doesn't say no, but the campaign worker also doesn't catch the signals of "not tonight dear I have a headache."    Who would be forcing whom in that scenario?

Honestly, at this point the writers can't even claim they don't realize how they are treating sex on this show.   There is just too much of it with forced/deceptive/obsessive sex.   

 

Right?  And we can add to Season 1 Adalind magic ruffying Hank for however many months while they dated (not to mention what happened to Woo and his rug).

 

 

Also in season 2:

Adalind sleeping with both Eric and Sean in order to get pregnant, including Adalind using Renard's obsession with Juliette to get him in bed (I think the term was she could help him "take the edge off.")  Oh yeah...the obsession was of Adalind's making

 

Also in season 4:

The travesty of an episode that was "Heartbreaker" - you know, where the message was only pretty girls get raped, men can't be blamed because it was all just lust, and if pretty girls don't want to be raped they will need to make themselves ugly.  

[tpel]

After not having watched this, but reading what people have posted here, it definitely sounds like Rachel was coming on quite strong.

 

 

That might be an understatement. She physically pushed RenEve down onto the bed, and RenEve was very obviously not into it. Of course, Renard is a big guy. He could have shoved her away. And RenEve never outright refused -- Sasha just had this great deer-in-the-headlights expression, like Eve was trying to process the situation. The mildest interpretation I see for both of their actions was that Eve arrived with no intention of having sex with anybody, and when the situation arose, she was kind of mentally paralyzed. So she was swept along by Rachel's aggressive advances, until she was saved by the bell of impotence. From Rachel's perspective, both she and Renard know that theirs is not a relationship of love and affection; they are upfront about the fact that they are using each other. Thus, if her partner doesn't seem enthused about sex, but also doesn't refuse, well, that means he's decided that putting up with it is the action that best furthers his agenda at the moment. In other words, he consents, albeit a bit reluctantly.

 

But I think what we are going for here is mutual rape.   Nobody gave knowing consent to sex in this situation.   Honestly, if you can't define it, you shouldn't be writing about it.

 

 

I disagree, in principle, but agree with this instance. What I mean is, I think one of the most fascinating functions of fiction -- whether written or filmed --  is writing about or portraying ideas that we struggle to define. It's kind of what makes great literature great, to me at least. On a generally well-written show, having this sort of multi-layered sexual exploitation occur, where it's hard to place blame because nobody is behaving well, can be thought provoking. I agree, however, that these writers probably shouldn't go there, because we can count on them to ignore little things like psychological plausibility and consequences. 

[OtterMommy]

So, thinking more about this scene that I've never watched....

 

You know, it could have been hilarious.  I know people have said it was hilarious--but it could have been hilarious without the icky crap.  How?

 

Well, if what happened before hadn't happened.  If Adalind hadn't raped Nick, if Juliette hadn't become Adalind to sleep with Nick and undo the damage Adalind did, if the show hadn't gone to such measures to deny that there was anything wrong with Adalind raping Nick, if they hadn't ignored that she also raped Hank, etc...

 

Now, obviously, without that happening, it wouldn't have been Juliette/Eve...but let's overlook that for right now.  This scene, without all the baggage the show has picked up, could have been very effective without changing a single thing (except, as I said, the Juliette part--only because the baggage is what led to her involvement.  Instead, a female "agent" for Hadrian's Wall--she could even be a hexenbiest--transforms herself into Renard, a guy who is, let's just say, "suave" with the ladies and has this thing going on with Rachel.  The female agent doesn't know that--or at least not the extent of it--transforms herself into Renard and...the scene goes down as it did (without the deed being done, of course).

 

This is a pretty clear example of how this show has sabotaged itself over with its own misogynstic and sophomoric choices.  If they hadn't screwed (ha ha...) themselves over, this scene--which gave an accomplished actor something interesting to do and an opportunity to shine--could have been a hit.  Instead, it is a reminder of how far this show has fallen.

Edited April 11, 2016 by OtterMommy

[ottilie]

well, you can say that about sex, but you could also go into the level of real life trauma that anyone would have working in the violent crimes unit of the police department where you were around so many murder victims. How could you emotionally switch back to normal each week.

[tpel]

You know, it could have been hilarious.  I know people have said it was hilarious--but it could have been hilarious without the icky crap.  How?

Well, if what happened before hadn't happened.  If Adalind hadn't raped Nick, if Juliette hadn't become Adalind to sleep with Nick and undo the damage Adalind did, if the show hadn't gone to such measures to deny that there was anything wrong with Adalind raping Nick, if they hadn't ignored that she also raped Hank, etc...

 

 

I totally agree. Actually, I did find the scene to be pretty funny, mostly due to the awesomeness that is Sasha Roiz. But I agree that what's problematic about the scene isn't so much the scene itself. Taken on its own, it could be considered an amusing examination of ambiguous consent. The problem is that the show has a history of condoning sexual exploitation, and in the context of this history, playing lack of informed consent for laughs sets off alarm bells.

[OtterMommy]

From the "Believer" thread...

 

By the way, I realized that Renard has a lot of characteristics of a grown up Harry Potter. I never really read the books but have read segments to my niece and nephew. Harry Potter and Renard are both 'half blood' princes who were exiled from their family or true role for which they are entitled. Renard did not go to Hogwarts though and doesn't conspicuously use magic - instead he seems to have a charismatic influence on others. There is another similarity in that in Harry Potter, his friends made a transfiguration potion where Hermione accidentally turned into a cat instead of the person she wanted to mimic, and got stuck in that state until they were able to learn how to reverse it.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure any similarity between Grimm and Harry Potter are--while not deliberate, still deliberate...if that makes any sense.

 

In other words, I don't think the creators of Grimm are trying to mimic or pay tribute to Harry Potter, but I also don't think they bat an eyelash when they farm Harry Potter for "tricks."

 

(Point of clarification...Harry Potter was not the Half-Blood Prince, Severus Snape was...  I could see how they might be trying to "Snape" Renard, but I think that they've missed their window of opportunity with that. That is something they should have been building since season 1, or at least season 2...instead of sidelining Renard.  Frankly, that is a long story line and needs to be treated as such.)

 

There is, of course, the Polyjuice potion.  Obviously, JK Rowling doesn't corner the market on shapeshifting, but there are is an uncomfortable level of similarity between the Polyjuice Potion and the rape juice that Grimm uses.  I think they are trying to set up some sort of epic nemesis situation between Nick and...someone or something...that echoes HP and Voldemort (the logical choice would be Adalind, but they've never succeeded on that front).  There is the magic stick, which smack of Elder wand to me.

 

Of course, Grimm is a show that borrows from other sources...but there are 2 big differences here:

1 - When Grimm borrows from fairy tales or folk tales, or even other fiction sources, there is some sort of "tipping the hat" on it.  However, when it gets into HP territory, that is gone and it feels, from standpoint of a viewer, that Grimm is trying to "steal" something, or at least be a little sneaky about using conventions that JK Rowling made popular

 

2 - I would hope that the Grimm creative team realizes that while fairy tales and folk tales are in the public domain, Harry Potter is very much under copyright...and a step too far in that direction and they will be facing the considerable financial and legal force that is J.K. Rowling. Still, I always feel that Kouf/Greenwalt/Carpenter and just always skirting around the edges here, tying to get right up to that point, but not cross that.  Frankly, their energy would be better spent coming up with some original ideas.

Edited April 12, 2016 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

From the Meisner thread...

One concern I have about the writers pitting Meisner against Nick (beyond just the occasional conflicts of interests and methods) is that, frankly, Meisner is more engaging than Nick at the moment. So I'm afraid that, in order to keep the audience on the side of the lead character, the writers would engage in a character assassination of Meisner -- you know, make him into more of a mustache-twirling villain than a pragmatist with an agenda.

 

I don't think we can deny that this is a very reasonable concern.  There is, of course, an easy way to fix this--make Nick an engaging character again.  I mean, he is the supposed lead of the show, so I don't think that's an unreasonable avenue to explore.  Unfortunately, I think the creators' way of making Nick engaging is to put other characters around him who are engaging.  It started with Monroe, who was definitely the scene stealer in the early seasons and when he, I don't know, became more of a package deal with Rosalee, Trubel was introduced (I never found her especially engaging, although I know many others do), then they did their job on Juliette as an attempt to make her more interesting, and then this season they stuck him with Adalind (who, ironically, became incredibly uninteresting).  Now, we're left with Eve--who I personally think was a mistake (I mean, either Juliette is dead or she isn't.  If they weren't going to keep her dead, they should have just kept her as Juilette....) or Meisner.  The thing is--and this is a concern when we think about Meisner--whenever they put the "interesting" title on a character, it doesn't last long.  Of all those I mentioned, Monroe had the longest "shelf life," but even he faded away, or at least turned into something else.

 

The only character who could have staying power to last as long as the show lasts would be Nick but, for whatever reason, that has never been an option for this creative team.  To be fair, or maybe just to defend an actor I like, I blame the writing on this one.  I don't think that it is a case of DG's acting not performing up to the level of the script.  Instead, the script was at such a low level that his acting just isn't able to lift it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by OtterMommy

[johntfs]

I guess for me the thing that really goes wrong isn't just the stories the show tells.  It's also the stories they don't tell.  Juliette's fall in the last season should've been about deeply suppressed anger leading to tragic loss of control.  Juliette shouldn't be allies with the Royals, she should be killing them without regard for innocetns in the crossfire.  Ditto Adalind.  The last part of Season 4 should have been like the last part of Buffy Season Six where Willow, mainlining magic and rage threatens to destroy the world.  Nick should've brought her out of it just in time to see her "die" via Trubel's crossbow.  Adalind's "reform" should've left her as a crafty, contentious frenemy helping Nick and co. out of the need to help herself.

[OtterMommy]

I guess for me the thing that really goes wrong isn't just the stories the show tells.  It's also the stories they don't tell.  Juliette's fall in the last season should've been about deeply suppressed anger leading to tragic loss of control.  Juliette shouldn't be allies with the Royals, she should be killing them without regard for innocetns in the crossfire.  Ditto Adalind.  The last part of Season 4 should have been like the last part of Buffy Season Six where Willow, mainlining magic and rage threatens to destroy the world.  Nick should've brought her out of it just in time to see her "die" via Trubel's crossbow.  Adalind's "reform" should've left her as a crafty, contentious frenemy helping Nick and co. out of the need to help herself.

 

I agree with this completely, especially about Juliette's repressed anger.  I mean, I can create that story in my head (in order to make some sense of season 4), but the show never really put anything out there to support it...which is why the last half of season 4 was such a travesty.  There was nothing below the surface to explain anything.

 

But, this show has never gone very deep into anything, so why should I be surprised?

[OtterMommy]

I really don't care if Eve loses her powers or not. I just want them to stop making her soo powerful compared to other Hexenbiests.

 

Diana is born and she's the most powerful hexenbiest ever.

 

Elizabeth shows up and she's a super powerful hexenbiest.

 

Juliette is sent to Henrietta, because Henrietta is a super-powerful hexenbiest.

 

Juliette turns out to be the most powerful hexenbiest ever.

 

Lesson?  All hexenbiests are the most powerful hexenbiests ever.  Well, except Adalind.  She's just a plain old, run of the mill, average hexenbiest.  But, I'm sure that the NEVER BEFORE MENTIONED FACT that she took the suppression potion and regained her powers will make HER the most powerful hexenbiest ever because it is her turn (and, admittedly, if they are going to do a biest fight AGAIN, it would be pretty anticlimatic between the world's most powerful hexenbiest and the world's most average hexenbiest).

 

Honestly, the shine of being the world's most powerful hexenbiest died the moment that Elizabeth showed up with her oh-so-awesome powers only a few episodes after Diana was crowned the most powerful hexenbiest.  This, writers, is how you lose the faith of your audience.  Did they forget Diana?  Elizabeth?  Henrietta?  

 

Which begs the question, and this sums up pretty much everything I feel about this show right now...do they think I (the viewer) am an idiot?  I mean, I remember what they did in the past.  I remember the "rules" they created, the timelines, etc....but then they act like these things never even occurred.  Remember, this is the show whose writing team published a letter to viewers saying that we need to forget about the Royals because, well, they have something newer! and shinier! instead.

 

Is it just me, or is this show trying to gaslight us all?

Edited April 18, 2016 by OtterMommy

[ShadowFacts]

The other problem with all the hexenbiest mess is that it is overemphasized to the exclusion of other interesting things.  For example, why don't they develop Nick's Grimm-ness more?  At least it seems from what little we see of Teresa that she is training, taking care of business around the globe, etc.  Nick just reacts, over and over, to the wesen at hand.  Also, we hardly ever see what the zauerbiest specialties are. And we've only met one zauerbiest, I can't think of any others besides Renard, but a bunch of hexies.   There's just too much hexenbiest, and imbuing them with too much magical hooha and not enough vulnerability makes that boring.  Although I'm beginning to think that maybe since the suppressing potion for Adalind was only temporary, maybe the effects of Juliette's potion will wear off eventually, too.  She showed some emotion when she told Adalind she'd come after her if she hurt Nick, emotion Eve supposedly doesn't have. 

[Darklazr]

The other problem with all the hexenbiest mess is that it is overemphasized to the exclusion of other interesting things.  For example, why don't they develop Nick's Grimm-ness more?  At least it seems from what little we see of Teresa that she is training, taking care of business around the globe, etc.  Nick just reacts, over and over, to the wesen at hand.  Also, we hardly ever see what the zauerbiest specialties are. And we've only met one zauerbiest, I can't think of any others besides Renard, but a bunch of hexies.   There's just too much hexenbiest, and imbuing them with too much magical hooha and not enough vulnerability makes that boring.  Although I'm beginning to think that maybe since the suppressing potion for Adalind was only temporary, maybe the effects of Juliette's potion will wear off eventually, too.  She showed some emotion when she told Adalind she'd come after her if she hurt Nick, emotion Eve supposedly doesn't have. 

 

What the what?!  You want the actual star of the show to be an awesome badass?! No way!  There was a huge possibility of Nick being the ultimate Grimm, but the show is way too enamored with the hexenbiests.

[Prevailing Wind]

 

There's just too much hexenbiest, and imbuing them with too much magical hooha

 

So many Hexies have magical hooha because it's an extension of all women having a magical "hooha," if you get my drift.  It's why they are so frightening to men on a basic level and why certain political folks are intent on robbing women of any power over their bodies. They are in awe of women, in general.

[ShadowFacts]

So many Hexies have magical hooha because it's an extension of all women having a magical "hooha," if you get my drift.  It's why they are so frightening to men on a basic level and why certain political folks are intent on robbing women of any power over their bodies. They are in awe of women, in general.

 

I have to admit I wasn't thinking of that kind of hooha, heh.  I do get your drift and agree it is what animates lots of socio-political junk.  It might be what is underpinning the hexen crap now that you put it this way, I was only thinking of the imbalance concerning not developing the Grimm and zauer sides of things.  Food for thought. 

[Clanstarling]

ArghI  And this is what is driving me crazy...instead of trying to stick Nick with someone dynamic, why not make HIM dynamic?   He's the freakin' main character, FFS!  He's at the worst this season and it just sinks lower with each and every episode.  Sigh...

 

Just...I just wish that they would invest SOME energy into the main character of this show.  They can have the freakiest circus around him, but if your main character is dead weight, the show will sink no matter what...

The first season of Grimm, I stuck around only for the rest of the cast because I thought Nick was so boring. He was just the pretty boy to watch. I couldn't decide if it was the actor or the role. Certainly on the surface there seemed to be enough stuff happening to make him interesting. Monroe, Wu, Renard, Hank and Adalind were all interesting, even when they had little screen time.

If they are deliberately making him dull, then they do need a counterbalance when it comes to romance. I was thinking another Grimm. But you are right - there's no reason why the character shouldn't be dynamic. All the pieces are there.

 

[OtterMommy]

The first season of Grimm, I stuck around only for the rest of the cast because I thought Nick was so boring. He was just the pretty boy to watch. I couldn't decide if it was the actor or the role. Certainly on the surface there seemed to be enough stuff happening to make him interesting. Monroe, Wu, Renard, Hank and Adalind were all interesting, even when they had little screen time.

 

If they are deliberately making him dull, then they do need a counterbalance when it comes to romance. I was thinking another Grimm. But you are right - there's no reason why the character shouldn't be dynamic. All the pieces are there.

 

I don't know if they are making him deliberately dull...I mean, why would they do that?  I think they just don't know how to make him "not dull."  On this show, unless a character is Wesen or 'biest (because I still don't think those two things are the same), they are dull.  Nick, as we mentioned, Juliette, suppressed hexen Adalind (although, to be fair, I don't know if I'd call non-hexen Adalind dull.  Annoying, yes...but maybe not dull), Hank--love him, but yeah, Wu...  Frankly, I find Trubel boring (not everyone agrees with me on that one, and that's fine).  So maybe THAT is the problem.

 

The thing is that, from the beginning of season 5 continuing until now, the writers had a prime opportunity to make Nick more dynamic.  The guy had A LOT to deal with and watching him deal with it, for better or worse, could have been entertaining to watch and fleshed out the character more than he had been so far in the show.  But, unless something happens in the next, what?, 5? episodes, the opportunity has been wasted.  Whenever there was an opportunity for some sort of growth for Nick, they've passed it up.

 

Okay, so maybe they are doing it intentionally--because I honestly can't think why a writer who is at least good enough to get a job on a network show (those are NOT easy to come by!) would be so damn stupid.

 

As for the acting, in this case--season 3 and later Nick--I don't think that's it.  DG was wooden and, well,, "green" when the series started but he has improved quite a bit.  And there have even been some moments of really strong performance from him in the past season and a half.  But, if the script has the character do something ridiculous, there is no way an actor can out act that.  And, frankly, I get the feeling that DG knows it.  His interviews, which have become rare, are definitely, ahem, "grumpy" this season and I'm not so sure he wouldn't agree with everything we're saying here.

Edited April 19, 2016 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

So....the rapidly aging Diana....and why it JUST DOES NOT WORK in Grimm.

 

We all know that soap operas have been employing the RAS (Rapid Aging Syndrome) for quite some time, and I think it works there for 2 reasons...

1 - Soap operas invented this little convention and, frankly, people expect it by now.

2 - Someone who has more experience with soap operas can chime in here, but when I've witnessed it in a soap opera (which has been a looooong time...basically since I was a teenager living at home and my mother had not yet discovered the joys of RV'ing and was still religiously watching 3 CBS soaps....), when a character is rapidly aged, they sort of remove it from any time-sensitive plot first.  For example, you wouldn't see Desdemona and Midas have to attend a wedding in two weeks, so they send off their 6 year old love child to a Swiss boarding school and said child returns in time for the wedding 10 years older. Instead, the child is sent off, stuff happens for a little bit, and the child returns, but there is nothing tying that character to the plot.

 

So, Grimm's problems are:

1 - Despite all evidence to the contrary, Grimm is not, in fact, a soap opera.

2 - Diana is actually tied to another plot.  Diana is taken within a month of her birth and, almost immediately, Adalind rapes Nick, resulting in Kelly's conception.  So, Diana is about 10 months older than Kelly.  Well, let's say 14 months...but that's a whole other gripe.  But, is Kelly an elementary school kid? Nope...he's still an infant.  Thus, Diana being a tween makes absolutely no sense.  

 

You know, if Kouf/Greenwalt/Carpenter had resisted their baby fetish and Kelly was never a part of the show, this Diana thing would not be such an issue.  TV shows do sometimes have to age up kids (although infant to tween is quite a bit too much to take...).  On Modern Family, they have had to age up both Lily and Joe because the characters got to an age where they would be talking, but kids that age just aren't able to act to that point.  But then, they aged each of them up a year or two, it happened over the summer, and--again--it wasn't tied to anything else.

 

But, Grimm has to take this less than ideal convention (because I do believe that shows--soaps or otherwise--do it out of necessity) and fuck it up like no other show can.  The sad part?  Even that they didn't have to do!!!  All they needed was about 30 seconds of dialogue something like this:

Adalind: That's Diana?  She's too old to be Diana!

Renard: She's aging faster because of the ritual you did while you were pregnant with her to get your powers back.  

Adalind: Oops, my bad.

Renard: Yes, things usually are your bad...

 

Problem solved!  But could they even do that?????

Edited April 23, 2016 by OtterMommy