S05.E15: Try

[raven]

 

Going to Rick and saying you're going to have to kill him seem like she's interested, and putting her two cents in. Going to the Anderson home and trying to see Sam and Jessie seems interested. I don't know, YMMV.

The show is being inconsistent with Carol I think.  It would have been much more interesting (to me) to have Carol get to have that talk with Jessie - really, it's not that difficult, Rick has managed to talk to Jessie alone in her own home, garage and/or yard a couple of times now.  Carol would approach it from the "hey Sam wants a gun" angle, pretty effective to Jessie to hear it from her.   Instead we get a throw away scene to make Pete look kind of loony (not opening the door all the way, etc) just so the show can say "Carol tried!!"   Instead, Carol just looks kind of loony herself (as always, IMO by being so casual about it) by going straight to "you'll have to kill him" territory.

 

It would have been better to flesh Alexandria out more (I honestly don't care about Pete, Jessie, Sam or their other kid) but I don't think the Grady arc was a waste.  It's more background to further bring down the spirits of the Rick group (except for the standalones, which were IMO a goodbye to Beth's character.  I know a lot of you hated them but they worked for me, I was glad for new scenery and something different).  Anyway, they (and we) see a group that has managed to survive by subjogating others; not like the Claimers or Terminus but still awful.  Yet Rick's group offers to bring along any who want to come, even after finding and losing Beth pretty instantaneously - and whatever a lot of people on messageboards post :), I think the show is saying that Beth was important to the Rick group even if she wasn't a fighter or whatever.  So the group doesn't refuse any takers at that point.  Bringing Noah in gets them to Noah's hometown (which, why not, they were pretty directionless) and we get our first shots of the "W" and lose Tyreese, which is still affecting Sasha and Rick.  Plus it's another confirmation that no place is safe for long.  We also get some development for Michonne, we really see she is focusing on a making a safe place somewhere.

 

Others have posted that Rick is probably more affected than we think by recent losses of those he's supposed to be in charge of , especially long termers like Beth and, to a lesser extent, Tyreese - and I agree.  Noah's death is a bit more of a head scratcher - Tyler James Williams' personality really made the character work, IMO - and that may be more about the effect on Glenn (which influences Rick and his breakdown); it's affected Sasha and Michonne as well - and as a reinforcement to Rick's group (like they needed more) that anything can happen at any time, you really, really don't want to be out there again.

 

The show could have done a much better job of tying Grady and Alexandria together - places that seem safe but have rot underneath.  For example, after not even considering to try to stay with the Grady people (would have to change that whole sex slave thing) Tyreese dies, the Rick group goes through exhaustion, dehydration and hunger and it would have been interesting to see if any questioned leaving.  Then here's Alexandria, pretty much a paradise after all that.  Still there are secrets - leaving others without trying to save them, Pete the wife beater, are these people even trying to be self sustainable?  or is that what the scouting is for, to bring farmers in LOL? 

 

I would have liked to see our characters pairing their desperation with maybe Jessie's or seeing what others in Alexandria feel about the ZA, the future, etc.  We have Glenn but that's about it.  The show is best when we get different character combos interacting, then we see differences and fleshing out.

 

Sorry for the long-winded post, it's been snowing most of the day here and I'm thinking about the apocalypse.

Edited March 28, 2015 by raven

[Madding crowd]

I'm wondering if Rick is going to end up with a head injury and require the services of the only known doctor. Looking back at the last few episodes, Pete appears to me to be drunk at all times. I can't imagine why Deanna or anyone would let him just stagger around in that state offering to check up on people's children. I don't know if its just TPTB being heavy handed in making sure we know he is a bad guy or what.

 

I also thought perhaps the red balloon was an homage to Stephen King, but then like the rest of you started thinking about where did they get helium and string, and then forgot about Pennywise.

 

I am really hoping the finale capitalizes on the scene with Daryl and Aaron and has CDB and ASZ working together rather than more of Rick verses Pete stuff. 

[walnutqueen]

I think people would be surprised at how many functioning alcoholic doctors there are now.

 

I think "people" would be very surprised at how many functioning alcoholics are among them now.

[NoWillToResist]

Going to Rick and saying you're going to have to kill him seem like she's interested, and putting her two cents in. Going to the Anderson home and trying to see Sam and Jessie seems interested. I don't know, YMMV.

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Carol has not got directly involved, IMO. She told Rick, and then made up some shit to try and see Sam. She has not discussed her concerns about the abuse to either the family or the community's leadership. I'd have thought that someone posing as a den mother would be very concerned about that and not just let that go unmentioned. The fact that she says she's seen how Rick looks at Jessie makes me VERY uncomfortable with the fact that she brought this to him to take care of.

 

Pete is a wife-beater - just like Ed. Only difference I see is Pete uses alcohol as an excuse for his behavior.

 

To my recollection, we've not heard from Pete on this topic. Doesn't sound like anyone's called him on it, which brings up another issue I have with this plot: has anyone actually confronted Pete about this? And if so, has he ever tried to excuse his behaviour? Does he apologize to Jessie after a beating? Does he cry and promise to change? Did Deanna ever confront him about his behaviour and he used his doctoring skills in exchange for carte blanche to beat his wife? Or has no one said anything to him? Hellfire, for all I know, the dude gets so blackout drunk that he doesn't even remember beating his wife.

 

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't remember this (since it happened in this episode) but did Rick even identify to Pete why he was there and was expecting Pete to leave with him? I truly can't remember him saying "I'm here because it's been brought to my attention that you beat your wife and that is not acceptable." From what I recall, drunkish Pete enters the living room to see Creeper Cop up in his wife's personal space with heart eyes, saying that Pete has to leave his own home.

 

 

It would have been better to flesh Alexandria out more (I honestly don't care about Pete, Jessie, Sam or their other kid) but I don't think the Grady arc was a waste.  It's more background to further bring down the spirits of the Rick group (except for the standalones, which were IMO a goodbye to Beth's character.  I know a lot of you hated them but they worked for me, I was glad for new scenery and something different).  Anyway, they (and we) see a group that has managed to survive by subjogating others; not like the Claimers or Terminus but still awful.  Yet Rick's group offers to bring along any who want to come, even after finding and losing Beth pretty instantaneously - and whatever a lot of people on messageboards post :), I think the show is saying that Beth was important to the Rick group even if she wasn't a fighter or whatever.  So the group doesn't refuse any takers at that point.  Bringing Noah in gets them to Noah's hometown (which, why not, they were pretty directionless) and we get our first shots of the "W" and lose Tyreese, which is still affecting Sasha and Rick. 

 

I just felt that the introduction of Noah could have happened another way; a way which didn't involve people keeping prisoners to do fucking laundry, with a spot of rape here and there for the ladies. Beth could have been senselessly killed any number of way to trigger the gang's depression and Noah could have crossed paths with our group another way which would still have led to the Virginia/wolves/W plot.

 

It seems to me that, lately, this show has gone in the opposite direction re: locales. We spent whole seasons on the farm and in the prison; but this season we've had Terminus, Gabriel's church, Grady Hospital, Noah's hometown (if you want to stretch it), and now ASZ. I feel that TPTB are not spending enough time explaining HOW these communities came about and how they continue to exist in this world. I mean, how the heck did Deanna's husband and two boys extract all that metal sheeting, transport it to ASZ, set it up and make that perimeter without encountering a zillion walkers? Most of this group seem to be very babe-in-the-woods about the ZA and I simply have no idea how that's possible.

[kikismom]

 

I mean, how the heck did Deanna's husband and two boys extract all that metal sheeting, transport it to ASZ, set it up and make that perimeter without encountering a zillion walkers? Most of this group seem to be very babe-in-the-woods about the ZA and I simply have no idea how that's possible.

That's why I don't believe it and I have my tinfoil hat theory about Deanna got special placement in this set-up because of who she was in Washington. (If she really was a Congressperson. Again, no one questions her version or asks her for proof, it is just accepted at face value.). An "eco-sustainable" site (or whatever) has nothing to do with crates of pasta and booze. Solar panels, okay. But I'm still not clear why the "original residents" would evacuate it this is the best place for shelter, so good that the military would take a member of the Federal Govt. here.

[raven]

 

I just felt that the introduction of Noah could have happened another way; a way which didn't involve people keeping prisoners to do fucking laundry, with a spot of rape here and there for the ladies. Beth could have been senselessly killed any number of way to trigger the gang's depression and Noah could have crossed paths with our group another way which would still have led to the Virginia/wolves/W plot.

I don't disagree; I was just pointing out what I saw as the story narrative.  It's pretty commonplace that post-apocalypse stories bring people down to the lowest common denominator pretty quickly.  I mean, REALLY? about Terminus - cannibalism after just a couple of years?  When there's still game and plenty of options for growing?  OK, I can see Gareth & Mary cracking but the show had built up a community around it, including luring people in.  It was effective drama but it stretched believability, even in a show where the dead are walking around.

 

The hospital could have been better too - really, are those people honestly waiting for help to arrive?  Didn't make sense.  Isn't anyone thinking about the future?  I'm glad that some of the group, like Glenn and Michonne, are doing just that, because no one they've run across so far has been. 

[Watcher0363]

That's why I don't believe it and I have my tinfoil hat theory about Deanna got special placement in this set-up because of who she was in Washington. (If she really was a Congressperson. Again, no one questions her version or asks her for proof, it is just accepted at face value.). An "eco-sustainable" site (or whatever) has nothing to do with crates of pasta and booze. Solar panels, okay. But I'm still not clear why the "original residents" would evacuate it this is the best place for shelter, so good that the military would take a member of the Federal Govt. here.

Northern Virgina was effectively evacuated, millions of people. It would probably take a few years for survivors to realize how fertile the scavenging grounds are in that area. To answer another question that gets asked a lot. Why so many walkers. I think the show has always hinted at this every season starting with episode one. It seems no one wanted to rekill anyone. They just locked them up or quarantine them in mass. Like Hershel to many people were walking around thinking we can cure them. Also the number of suicides that would go horribly wrong, that is you reanimate. I can imagine the number of people bitten trying to round up the first wave of walkers, must have been staggering.

[TexasChic]

Wasn't he the one in an earlier episode who said he had a pool table at his house, and that his dad was really strict about using it, but he wasn't at home right now so they could play on it? At the time I thought, What a dick, they're probably dying for entertainment and his dad is being all anal about the one pool table. That could have been a hint about something being not quite right there.

 

I'm watching the marathon, and realized I was wrong about this. It was the other kid's father (Mikey?) that had the pool table. Hey, maybe there's more than one porch dick!

I also caught that Aaron said Pete was a very gifted surgeon, and had seen him do amazing things. So he may be more valuable than we have been speculating.

[kikismom]

Northern Virgina was effectively evacuated, millions of people.

According to Deanna.

 Again, no one questions her version or asks her for proof, it is just accepted at face value.

I agree with the rest of your post about how people didn't do the right things at the beginning.  :-)

[morgankobi]

FYI, from the guy who makes the photo recaps:

Sorry guys, I've been hella busy this week and had to force myself to stay away from the internet as much as possible. I feel like last week's episode was relatively serious so I didn't really have much inspiration either. I might go back and do it later but for now I'm going to focus on the finale for sure.

 

Get your priorities straight, man! :)

[SyncMaster]

When Rosita, Michonne and Sasha were in the woods handling business I liked seeing Rosita use what appears to be her preferred method of walker immobilization.  She likes to kick a walker in the leg to break it then she can get all up in that dead ass at her leisure.

 

I was wondering why Aaron, when he and Daryl were cruising through the countryside, only had that small firearm.  He usually carries a high-powered rifle and I didn't see it strapped to his back.  Maybe he thought that downsizing was the smart thing to do for trip.

[LadyMustang65]

We just got a chance to watch this last night and have not yet seen the season finale.  But I have to say this episode was such a mixed bag.  I don't "hate" Jessie but I don't like her either.  I don't actually care much one way or the other about her.  She seems like a nice enough person, I guess, and she's pretty enough, I guess, but that's pretty much it.  We just don't really know much about her one way or the other for us to care about her.  Nor have we been given, imho, enough information to believe that Rick cares that much about her either.  If we're supposed to see some kind of sparks between them, I don't.  It's all just been weird to me.  So I don't get Rick's seeming obsession with her.  I also do not understand Deanna's motivation either.  Yes, I can understand her saying she knew about the abuse, but he's the doctor, so what can they do?  Well, Deanna, you're the one running around assigning jobs, so how about assigning two or three or four other people in the town to be his assistants and learn as much as they can from him so you're not dependent on someone who's drunk most of the time for your medical care?  How hard would that be? 

 

So that aspect of not just this episode but this whole arc has been disappointing to me because I just don't understand what Rick sees in Jessie to have (apparently) fallen so hard so fast for her.  She's honestly kind of insipid to me. 

 

I loved the interaction between Glenn and Nick.  I had so hoped Nick wasn't going to be a total douchebag, but of course he just had to be.  <sigh>   I find it disturbing that he has Rick's gun.  But Glenn was awesome!  I also missed Maggie and any follow-up to Gabriel's betrayal of them.  Loved the interaction between Michonne, Rosita and Sasha.  Also loved Darryl and Aaron. 

 

The whole scene between Rick and Jessie at the end - count me among those who hated that Rick said he would do this only for her.  We know that's not true.  Maybe some are right that Rick knew she needed to hear it, but how would we know that since we know so little about Jessie?  For that matter how would Rick know that given that they've barely talked to each other, and when they do it's always about trivial stuff.  But whatever.  I read a lot of comments wondering how Rick wasn't able to take down Pete more easily, but my take on that was that it was just proof positive to me anyway that Rick isn't "too far" gone.  Despite his feelings I don't think he really wanted to fight Pete or to hurt him.  Otherwise Rick could have dropped Pete rather easily.  We've seen him do it before.  So I think his whole heart wasn't in it really.  That despite all his talk, he doesn't have it in him to murder another human being who isn't a threat to him.  That his own morality is still in control, even though he's becoming somewhat unhinged.  At heart he is still a good guy, and he can't shake that as easily as he thinks he might like.  Just my 2 cents' worth on that.

 

I was kind of glad Michonne clocked him.  I think Rick had just gotten to the point where he just could not cope with their system of turning a blind eye to things and living almost in a fantasy world that doesn't really exist.  But as many have pointed out, at that point it didn't matter that he was speaking the truth.  To them he was just this raving lunatic who "didn't understand" their way of life.

 

I really want to know what's up with the Ws on the forehead and who tied that girl to the tree.  It'll be a couple of days before we can watch last night's episode, though.

[Samx]

Originally posted an update about the photo recap but morgankobi beat me to the punch. 

 

However, if you want to sleuth around reddit (but beware because it is spoiler country over there sometimes - comics and show), here's a link to the photo recap author's page: http://www.reddit.com/user/The-Nard-Dog

Edited March 30, 2015 by Samx

[morgankobi]

It's also pasted three comment above ;)

[Pete Martell]

I realized I still had this on my DVR and skimmed through it before deleting. 

 

I think I hate those Carl/Enid scenes and that damn slo-mo run and that middle-aged-impersonating-emo-teens dialogue even more the second time around...