Jessie: Owl Be Seeing You

[BrokenRemote]

" I always headcanon that Lori was a Little Miss Harvest Fair Princess and Prom Queen and Head Cheerleader and Junior League Most Likely to Be A Flower Of Our Fair City type."

This was something kikismom said a while back in another thread and it stuck with me as such a spot-on description of Lori. And the more I think about it, probably of Jesse as well. I think Rick definitely has a type, and Jesse is it.

Yes, things ended badly with Lori, but it is oh so human to keep going back to what attracts you even if you've been burned before. I have a friend (I think most of us have this friend) who has spent most of her adult life going for the "bad boy", who must also be a certain body type, wear a certain type of clothes, have a neatly-trimmed beard. It's meant she's been in no end of very bad, messy situations but when she meets a quiet type of guy or one that doesn't fit her physical preferences she says she just can't feel it and winds up miserable.

She's an extreme example but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't the same to a lesser extent. It's not a male or female trait, but a human one. There are reasons we want what we want.

What I'm trying to say is, it's not surprising to me that Rick likes Jesse. She's similar to Lori in a lot of ways. He can be her protector, she has a certain prom-queen look. It was inevitable.

[Constantinople]

" I always headcanon that Lori was a Little Miss Harvest Fair Princess and Prom Queen and Head Cheerleader and Junior League Most Likely to Be A Flower Of Our Fair City type."

This was something kikismom said a while back in another thread and it stuck with me as such a spot-on description of Lori. And the more I think about it, probably of Jesse as well. I think Rick definitely has a type, and Jesse is it.

But now that Jessie's killing Wolves and taking out Walkers, she's a different kind of prom queen

[AngelaHunter]

What I'm trying to say is, it's not surprising to me that Rick likes Jesse. She's similar to Lori in a lot of ways. He can be her protector, she has a certain prom-queen look. It was inevitable.

 

Yes. I think we all have a "type" that attracts us. I guess Rick's are pretty, slender and feminine women. Now that Jesse can kick ass as well she must be irresistable to him. And let's face it - he's due to break his long period of celibacy.

[JBody]

Jessie often wears an oversized plaid shirt --in fact, she has several plaid shirts, going by the stills I just viewed when I found the Lori DIY kit-- and I couldn't help but think this was a deliberate and fairly obvious reference to the Mrs. Grimes of seasons 1- 3. Her plaid shirt usage is iconic. Draw whichever conclusions you want to, but I believe this is a clear and deliberate signal that the Ricktator has unfinished business to attend to. I believe Jessie is his Lori “do over” or whatever you want to call it.  Another anvil dropped during season 5b when Rick mentioned that Lori had always wanted a house like ASZ houses.  And the first time we ever see Jessie she’s cutting hair. The first time we ever see Lori she’s cutting hair.  That’s just off the top my head.  You know these writers are anything but subtle.

 

Jessie's role is to make Rick remember his old life, the way the world was before, the normality that he used to have with Lori. This whole thing is about his past and his traumas.  It’s not about her.  Which makes her character even more tragic for me.  People talk about Michonne being too good for Rick.  What about this lady?  She has suffered years of abuse, her children are permanently scarred physically and mentally, her husband executed in front of her (yes he was her abuser but also the father of her children), his body dumped off-site like a bag of trash so even his sons can’t mourn him (and all of this done by her soon-to-be-boyfriend), the children are more traumatized than ever before – and somehow Rick, who is still as crazy as a shithouse rat with his own issues -- is the guy for her?  Sad.  And even sadder because I think she’s a stand-in for Lori.  It’s really messed up.

 

 

[Spartan Girl]

I agree with everything you said @JBody. It's one of the many reason I don't want Rick and Jessie together.

However, I don't have a lot of sympathy for women that stay in abusive marriages WHEN THEY HAVE KIDS. Jessie was completely oblivious to the affect her husband's abuse was having on Sam and Ron...especially Ron. Maybe if Jessie had gotten up the courage to throw Pete out sooner, Ron wouldn't have become Porchdick Jr.

Of course, the Deanna and the rest of the Alexandrians could have been more supportive and not looked the other way just because Porchdick was their only surgeon.

[JBody]

Agreed.  And it is doubly reprehensible, in my opinion, once we found out Denise is a psychiatrist, and as we all know they are physicians (not psychologists).  She mentioned Pete never wanted her around (competition).  Deanna et al should've taken him down a peg or two way before the CDB Anarchy in the ZA Show arrived in town.  How this could've played out is debatable but it would've been better than what they did do, which was to sweep it under the carpet.

* "it" being his abusiveness and alcoholism

[Nashville]

However, I don't have a lot of sympathy for women that stay in abusive marriages WHEN THEY HAVE KIDS. Jessie was completely oblivious to the affect her husband's abuse was having on Sam and Ron...especially Ron. Maybe if Jessie had gotten up the courage to throw Pete out sooner, Ron wouldn't have become Porchdick Jr.

Purely MHO, but I don't think you can black-and-white it that way. Many abused spouses stay in the marriage solely BECAUSE of the children; because for whatever reasons (financial or otherwise) circumstances dictate they wouldn't be able to take the kids with them, or they might lose them in an ensuing custody battle. Look at this case in pre-ZA terms: Pete's a (presumably) successful surgeon, while Jessie is a hairstylist/struggling artist. Who do you think will be able to afford the better lawyers, or convince a judge they could provide a better standard of living for the kids? Throw in the usual round of allegations - with and/or without basis in fact - which surround most divorces (infidelity, substance abuse, mental instability, etc.) and Jessie is liable to find herself out on her own, the kids with Pete, and no way for her to protect them.

Plus - I think there's little doubt if Jessie had tried to "throw out" Pete earlier, he'd have simply thrown her - through a wall.

Not saying that's right by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes that's the way it is - or, at least, the way people in a bad situation see it.

Of course, the Deanna and the rest of the Alexandrians could have been more supportive and not looked the other way just because Porchdick was their only surgeon.

Welcome to suburbia.

ETA: fixed formatting

Edited November 24, 2015 by Nashville

[Spartan Girl]

True, but that doesn't change the fact that it WASN'T good for the kids to stay with Pete. Remember how Sam was getting so scared that he asked Carol for one of her guns? To be fair, when Jessie found that out from Rick, she finally saw realized that Pete had to go. But in the case of Ron, the damage is already done.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

RIP Jessie.  You're hooters will forever be missed. 

[CletusMusashi]

I think it would have been great if she'd been with Abe, Daryl, and Sasha. Oh, Daryl could still have blown up the bad guys while Abe and Sasha stalled, but first, Jessie could have had a much quicker and cleaner death. By evil biker gunshot. And it would have suited her avian motif perfectly.

"Give us all your stuff. No questions allowed. All must obey Negan."

"Who?"

[AndySmith]

Jessie, you and your entire family sucked so much, but without you, who will now make ugly art sculptures for the new society they will try to rebuild in Alexandria? Who will cut and style people's hair? Who?

[CletusMusashi]

I think Rosita will take over the hair salon.

Morgan can take over the making of crazy sculptures.

[Spartan Girl]

Honestly, I felt more bad for Jessie's kids than herself. I know some people blame Carol for traumatizing Sam, but he was damaged long before the gang even set foot in Alexandria.

Jessie and Pete both failed abysmally as parents. As happy as I was to see Ron get disemboweled, even I can't forget that he might have been different if he'd been in a stable family. You can't expect a kid in an abusive environment to be well adjusted, and Ron was a clear example as a kid that in a few years would have grown up to be an abuser himself.

[Nashville]

Jessie and Pete both failed abysmally as parents. As happy as I was to see Ron get disemboweled, even I can't forget that he might have been different if he'd been in a stable family. You can't expect a kid in an abusive environment to be well adjusted, and Ron was a clear example as a kid that in a few years would have grown up to be an abuser himself.

 

You'd prefer Ron was a happy, well-adjusted piece of disemboweled walker chow...?  :D

[nodorothyparker]

The more I think about Jessie and how her story ended, the more aggravated I become that it was so badly underwritten and never about her as much as what Rick projected onto her as the head of the very very short list of candidates for the next Mrs. Rick Grimes.  Her back story of being abused and trying her best to raise her kids anyway while all of Alexandria cheerfully looked the other way should have garnered a fair amount of sympathy.  Her one big moment of fighting off the female Wolf and hacking her to dog food on the hardwood floor should have made us want to root for her as one of the very few Alexandrians who found the strength to fight for themselves before called upon to do so by a cheesy plot-dictated montage.  Of all the parents of our group who have lost children, she was the only one save Morgan (and we know how well he's done with that) who actually saw their child be devoured in front of them.  We should have been absolutely horrified and heartbroken for her in those moments before she was eaten herself.  Instead, the universal reaction has fallen somewhere between "meh" and "good riddance to the entire family."   And that essentially sums up her entire story.

[Nashville]

I never had any real problem with Jessie that I can recall; I think that was primarily the province of the Richonne shippers. :).

So far as the Anderson family's dysfunctional dynamic goes, I lay blame for that squarely on Pete and his abuse of both wife and children. Casting aspersions on Jessie because she didn't "do something" about the situation is (in my mind, anyway) stepping dangerously close to blaming the victim for their own abuse, and I'll have no truck with that.

[nodorothyparker]

IIRC, there was a whole lot of nastiness directed at both the character and the actress after some entertainment magazine or site featured her as "the next Mrs. Rick Grimes."  The actress then didn't help matters with her first appearance on TTD where she and Chris Hardwick fangirled like crazy over that prospect.  Which, I get because at that point we'd just been introduced to Jessie and she didn't really have a whole lot else to sell us on why we should care about one more new character in an already overstuffed cast so she just ran with it.

 

I don't like the thread of conversation that gets uncomfortably close to victim blaming either.  In a perfect world with all things being equal, would all abuse victims pack up their kids and get away safely the first time?  Sure.  But as we saw both with Jessie and way back in season one with Carol, the people around them were all too willing to look the other way because doing otherwise would have been inconvenient for them or "not my business."  The ZA hasn't really changed anything there.

[Nashville]

IIRC, there was a whole lot of nastiness directed at both the character and the actress after some entertainment magazine or site featured her as "the next Mrs. Rick Grimes."  The actress then didn't help matters with her first appearance on TTD where she and Chris Hardwick fangirled like crazy over that prospect.  Which, I get because at that point we'd just been introduced to Jessie and she didn't really have a whole lot else to sell us on why we should care about one more new character in an already overstuffed cast so she just ran with it.

 

Entertainment mags notwithstanding - that's all about Alexandra Breckinridge, not Jessie Anderson. Not that I blame AB one little bit. Heck, if you had a shot of becoming a standing member of this cast - however tenuous - wouldn't you take it? It worked for MMB, after all.

I don't like the thread of conversation that gets uncomfortably close to victim blaming either.  In a perfect world with all things being equal, would all abuse victims pack up their kids and get away safely the first time?  Sure.  But as we saw both with Jessie and way back in season one with Carol, the people around them were all too willing to look the other way because doing otherwise would have been inconvenient for them or "not my business."  The ZA hasn't really changed anything there.

If anything, the ASZ makes it worse.

"Get away safely" - to where?

And who is there in the ASZ to turn to for support?

[nodorothyparker]

You're right and I don't blame the actress at all for making the most of the opportunity.  TWD is one of the biggest shows on TV, after all.  Just that there was a backlash from the beginning that colored how a lot of people saw the character, aside from how many of the longtime Richonne shippers obviously felt about her "intruding."  This show's fanbase is nothing if not sometimes volatile.

 

I just hated the entire storyline about the Anderson family because it required a number of characters to stand around talking about what was going on in the family and how they felt about it rather than showing us and treated Rick in full creepy stalker vibe like he was a valid alternative option for a married woman being abused rather than a man going through a slow rolling bout of PTSD.

Edited February 17, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Spartan Girl]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jessie deserved to be abused, or to have her son devoured by walkers in front of her, or get devoured herself.  But you can't really expect battered women to be perfect mothers.  Carol herself admitted that by staying with Ed for as long as she did, she failed Sophia as a mother by not protecting her.  It was the same story with Jesse: she failed to protect Sam and Ron until it was already too late.  

[AndySmith]

I never had any real problem with Jessie that I can recall; I think that was primarily the province of the Richonne shippers

 

I'm definitely not a Rick and Michonne shipper (she is too good for him), and I still thought Jessie sucked.

[Nashville]

I'm definitely not a Rick and Michonne shipper (she is too good for him), and I still thought Jessie sucked.

You are not alone; hence "primarily". :)

[AndySmith]

Oh, I know what primarily means, and if I didn't, I could just google it :)

 

I just wanted to throw in an extra shot at Rick when I could, since Rick is the equivalent to Lost's Jack.

 

Hmmm...maybe he and Jessie deserved each other...

Edited February 21, 2016 by AndySmith

[Nashville]

I've seen several posts in various threads expressing dismay at the notion Michonne might be a "rebound" relationship for Rick post-Jessie.

I, for one, think they have it exactly backwards.

Since Rick had lost Olive -er- Lori, to exactly how many women have we seen him display any significant degree of overt romantic and/or sexual attraction?

After the loss of Rick's wife / mother of his children, the answer is - none, zip, zilch, nada.

Until Jessie, that is.

Maybe it was her hair, maybe it was Rick imprinting on the first female he saw after his first hot shower in a year, whatever - suddenly Rick remembered little Ricky was still in Da House, and ready to party.

So - isn't it obvious?

Jessie was the Rebound Girl.

Rebound from Lori, that is.

And, of course, things usually work out badly for the rebounds.

Not usually a getting-your-hand-hatcheted-off-while-zombies-make-you-a-blonde-buffet level of "badly" - but hey, that's just a matter of degree....

;)

Edited February 22, 2016 by Nashville

[Pete Martell]

I never had any real problem with Jessie that I can recall; I think that was primarily the province of the Richonne shippers. :).

 

The idea at the time was often that mostly just Richonne fans had a problem with her (along with other ideas like that if fans didn't like her, they were misogynists, and so on), and that may have been partially true, but for me the main problem was she was given such a huge push from the press and on Talking Dead the start, with absolutely nothing onscreen to show for it. For me, she had a nonexistent characterization and the show treated her character deplorably. There was far more focus on her "connection" with Rick (a connection that amounted to him being creepy and weird) than on her struggles with her husband or her family. To treat an abusive marriage in such a flip manner was very surprising to me, and not what I had expected from this show.

 

By the time they actually did focus on her, it was mostly just to repeat the "frightened woman toughens up" scenes that had been done before, and there's certainly nothing wrong with repeating this, but they felt hollow and perfunctory. And then she died. And as it turns out, she mostly died for Rick's story, because it was supposed to mean something to Rick, which is a terrible use of a female character. Beyond the inherent sexism of this type of writing, it did not work for me because I never felt a drop of chemistry between Andrew Lincoln and Alexandra Breckenridge. The whole story, from the first time he began leering and creeping, truly damaged Rick in my eyes, in a way his worst tirades and idiotic or self-righteous choices never had before. 

 

I thought she was a huge cipher and I don't think she ever should have been brought into the show. I'm sorry that the actress got fan hate, but I'm glad the character is gone.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Pete Martell

[RedheadZombie]

After watching Alexandra Breckenridge in the first season of American Horror Story, I was really surprised that she seemed so oatmeal and boring on this show.  Her role was small on AHS, but she was almost mesmerizing.  She was a redhead on that show.  Well, I just happened to watch a lame horror movie last night, and she was in it and was interesting again.  She just happened to have red hair again.  Coincidence?  I think not.  ;-)

 

ETA:  Here's a little taste of Moira from AHS.  http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=moira+american+horror+story&view=detailv2&id=5353EE5613C4ADFCC19B6F1B3A816F91B538A254&selectedindex=22&ccid=1Js833vf&simid=608020456386399847&thid=OIP.Md49b3cdf7bdf826993dde48e3e4d3a3bo2&mode=overlay&first=1

Edited March 14, 2016 by RedheadZombie

[Nashville]

After watching Alexandra Breckenridge in the first season of American Horror Story, I was really surprised that she seemed so oatmeal and boring on this show.  Her role was small on AHS, but she was almost mesmerizing.  She was a redhead on that show.  Well, I just happened to watch a lame horror movie last night, and she was in it and was interesting again.  She just happened to have red hair again.  Coincidence?  I think not.  ;-)

 

ETA:  Here's a little taste of Moira from AHS.  http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=moira+american+horror+story&view=detailv2&id=5353EE5613C4ADFCC19B6F1B3A816F91B538A254&selectedindex=22&ccid=1Js833vf&simid=608020456386399847&thid=OIP.Md49b3cdf7bdf826993dde48e3e4d3a3bo2&mode=overlay&first=1

Personally, I thought this one was truer to her character - but YMMV. :>

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Personally, I thought this one was truer to her character - but YMMV. :>

 

Yes, I think... *clicks link and stares for an indeterminate length of time* ... wait, what were we talking about again??

Edited March 23, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Nashville]

Yes, I think... *clicks link and stares for an indeterminate length of time* ... wait, what were we talking about again??

 

Discretion.

 

I think.