The West Wing Season Two: What's Next?

[Guest]

No worries, Ari. I'm more curious than spoiled. :)

[eyebleach]

Oh my - getting caught up on this thread is what I have needed after 3 of the hardest weeks of my life :)

 

17 People, Bad Moon Rising and then The Fall's Gonna Kill you are among my favs.  "You did, hotpants!" 

 

*swoon*  Keep watching so I can relive this with you :)

 

[Guest]

I just got to "you did, hot pants!"

I want to work that into conversation somehow.

[Guest]

The Joey and Josh scenes in The Falls Going to Kill You- wow.

Toby making sure CJ and Sam knew he was going to be there for them when they heard the news touched me.

CJ and Josh's final scene was sweet.

Another great episode. Now to 18th and Potomac!

[Guest]

Im feeling like I'm talking to myself. Maybe because I am. Another good episode.

Mrs. Landingham is so cute about her car. :) But don't ruin her big car buying day by telling her about your MS after she picks it up!

Stockyard Channing is amazing. Amazing.

No. No. No. I just got chills. My face mirrors Leo's right now. If only she hadn't been coming back to the White House!!!!!

I'm having a lot of feelings right now.

[Bastet]

Stockyard Channing

 

Hee.  Oh dear, now I fear I'll think of this typo every time I look at her.

 

I was semi-spoiled for Mrs. Landingham's death, but holding out hope it was really someone else - although I had no one in particular in mind (I knew for sure someone died, but didn't have 100% confirmation it was her).  I think Dulé Hill was the weak link in the cast (along with Janel Moloney) - perhaps inevitable given who he was working alongside - but his face upon getting the phone call finally rose to everyone else's level.  The rest, not so much, but such a minor thing in the course of a great episode.

[Inquisitionist]

I think Dulé Hill was the weak link in the cast

 

OMG, was he ever.  Has he shown acting chops in anything else?  'Cause his stiffness as Charlie was glaring.

[Guest]

Hee.  Oh dear, now I fear I'll think of this typo every time I look at her.

 

 

 

This is why I shouldn't type on my phone late at night.  I am too tired to notice auto-corrections that.... aren't exactly corrections!

 

Okay, this may be hyperbole, but I really think The West Wing Season 2 is one of the best seasons of any television show that I've ever seen.  Even the episodes that I thought were on the weaker side weren't bad and everything built at a slow burn all season. I mean, we started with The Shadow of the Gunman and look where we ended?  Nothing felt forced; just a gradual build of several storylines.

 

I will say, watching the last 3 episodes back to back to back packs quite an emotional punch.  I plan to rewatch someday to pick up on other things.

 

Thanks to those of you who indulged my silly conversations when I don't have 1/100th the West Wing knowledge as all of you!  I'm sure I'll see many of you in the Season 3 thread soon. (Once the swelling in my eyes goes down from last night's cry fest.)

[BizBuzz]

I love Dule Hill, no matter what his acting was like.  In TWW he reminded me of the scared boy he was supposed to be.  He got better as the series went on, he also was in Psych, and one of my fave movies of all times ... Holes.  ::giggle::

 

Yeah, I am a simple girl.

 

deaja, I know we have all said it, we are loving taking this trip with you.  I didn't turn into TWW until I was watching a rerun with a friend, and my first episode was "Shibboleth" ... I was hooked.  I think TWW was in Season 4 by then, so I had to do some mean finagling to grab episodes on Bravo here and there until I could catch them all.  They were never in an order that made sense, so the first time I got to see them in order, I was blown away.

 

I have a tough time with my fave episode ... I have always been partial to Two Cathedrals, but it's a toss up to any of those last three of season 2.  Jed Bartlett's back story was something to behold, and the actress that played Mrs. Landingham was phenomenal. 

 

On to season 3!!!

[eyebleach]

Oh, when you said 18th and Potomac and how excited she was for the new car - my heart broke a little bit for you.  Leo telling the President what happened will forever break my heart.

[Guest]

And to think I was worried he was going to kill her new-car excitement with news over his MS! 

 

I will admit that this morning I thought "At least she never had to find out that he'd been hiding a big secret from her and was going to have to face a grand jury."  I mean, I know her ghost found out, but I think that was more his imagination than anything.

[PeterPirate]

He was speaking in Latin.  You can find a translation at:

http://westwing.bewarne.com/discontinuity/languages.html 

 

It has been a real pleasure taking this trip with you. There are still many great moments to come. Season 3 contains my favorite episode, introduces my favorite character, and has my favorite scene. 

 

But back to season 2. Those last episodes are the highlight of the show. I love Toby's rant in 17 People. Sorkin really had the issues down cold when he wrote that. Everything is so tense, so serious over several episodes.   

 

But then there is the hands-in-the-pockets thing. I can't stand it. Some people buy into the notion that he was answering the question non-verbally, but it's a cliffhanger to me. The season should have ended with a spoken answer, something like "Yes, I am running and I am going to win." 

 

 

[Guest]

So, I know I've said multiple times that CJ is my favorite character.  I'm not sure if I still feel that way.  

 

CJ is great. I love CJ. As a female, I appreciate having a female member be senior staff and be very capable at her job and well-liked. So this is not an anti-CJ thing. (Just to get that out of the way.)

 

However, favorite character?  Why don't you just line up my kids and ask me to choose a favorite?  

 

I mean, you have Toby. Toby amazes me.  He is soft-spoken, but forceful.  He is a leader in actions, not just words.  17 People.... wow. He was perfect.  And then when he called Donna into his office and told her about the President, you really got the feeling that he was doing it because he knew Josh needed her to know so she could be a support for him. He's looking out for his friends and co-workers. I love Toby.

 

Sam - I love Sam!  He's passionate about what he believes in.  He's kind to others. I love his humorous banter with Ainsley.  (And I really love that the writers resisted the temptation to turn her into a caricature.) He's very principled, hard-working, focused, and dedicated. He's also just got some irresistible charm.  Not to mention, I think he's the show's eye candy.

 

Josh - Such a complex character.  The episode where he was talking to the therapist about his sister really got to me.  He's also one of the funnier characters, I think.

 

Leo - At first I didn't love Leo. He was okay, but I could take him or leave him.  But in Season 2, his effective leadership of the rest of the staff really shown through. 

 

This isn't even to touch on the more minor characters - Charlie, Donna, First Lady, Ainsley, etc.

 

So many fantastic characters. So many great qualities. So many realistic portrayals where they have flaws, weaknesses, strengths, personality quirks, etc.  None of them are portrayed as perfect and none of them are portrayed as villains.  That is what makes this such a great ensemble drama.

 

(In conclusion, I think CJ is still my favorite.... but Toby isn't far behind!)

[eyebleach]

 

 

It has been a real pleasure taking this trip with you. There are still many great moments to come. Season 3 contains my favorite episode, introduces my favorite character, and has my favorite scene. 

 

 

Now I'm so curious!

[AriAu]

Leo - At first I didn't love Leo. He was okay, but I could take him or leave him.  But in Season 2, his effective leadership of the rest of the staff really shown through.

 

Always a great topic to get WingNuts going on is their favorite character.Me, through Season 2, I'll take Leo and it all boils down to "A guy fell into a hole...". Next for me is Sam, Sam the Sunshine man since he is so principled, smart and funny, without Josh's outward cockiness and occasional smarm.

Of course, YMMV

[eyebleach]

I'm a Josh girl all the way.  I know he is a cocky jackass all too often but there's something about him that I find incredibly sexy.

 

That said, my cats are named Toby and Leo :)

[Melancholy]

I adore the entire Big Six (as I define, Jed, Leo, CJ, Josh, Toby, Sam) so, so much. Like, all of them are in my TV Hall of Fame. I love many of the more minor characters (Abbey, Nancy, Fitz, Ainsley) too.

 

CJ is my favorite and Jed is my second favorite. I really think those characters benefit because we see them frequently on camera speaking to the public, and then, behind closed doors. It makes them a little more psychologically interesting because, despite their genuine love for authenticity and truth, a lot of their career really does go to creating a persona. Moreover, I find Jed's and CJ's angst at being closely watched or measured by the public really resonant because that's exactly what we do with public figures so it creates a fascinating conundrum over what is productive scrutiny of a public figure and what's unfair. I also really like their character development. Not that I don't love career politicos who are exactly where they're supposed to be like Leo and Josh, but there's a lot of dramatic potential to seeing Jed and CJ navigate their offices even though they were longshots for their positions. 

 

And I dunno, every major character on the show is cute and funny but Jed and CJ really take it up a notch in their own particular ways. LOL.

[AriAu]

That said, my cats are named Toby and Leo :)

 

My secretary wants to know why I just laughed out loud

[BW Manilowe]

I love Dule Hill, no matter what his acting was like. In TWW he reminded me of the scared boy he was supposed to be. He got better as the series went on, he also was in Psych, and one of my fave movies of all times ... Holes. ::giggle::

Yeah, I am a simple girl.

deaja, I know we have all said it, we are loving taking this trip with you. I didn't turn into TWW until I was watching a rerun with a friend, and my first episode was "Shibboleth" ... I was hooked. I think TWW was in Season 4 by then, so I had to do some mean finagling to grab episodes on Bravo here and there until I could catch them all. They were never in an order that made sense, so the first time I got to see them in order, I was blown away.

I have a tough time with my fave episode ... I have always been partial to Two Cathedrals, but it's a toss up to any of those last three of season 2. Jed Bartlett's back story was something to behold, and the actress that played Mrs. Landingham was phenomenal.

On to season 3!!!

You know the actress who played the younger version of Mrs. Landingham in Two Cathedrals is the same actress who played Chief Vick in Psych, right?

[BizBuzz]

You know the actress who played the younger version of Mrs. Landingham in Two Cathedrals is the same actress who played Chief Vick in Psych, right?

 

Yup ... but what is funny, I didn't watch Psych live, another one I binge watched, and when I saw her, it took me the LONGEST time to realize it was the same actress.  I kept saying, I know her from somewhere and was too lazy to look it up.  LOL

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I'm a Josh girl all the way.  I know he is a cocky jackass all too often but there's something about him that I find incredibly sexy.

 

It dovetails nicely with my semi political crush on Rahm Emmanuel:-)

[AriAu]

deaja, I know we have all said it, we are loving taking this trip with you.  I didn't turn into TWW until I was watching a rerun with a friend, and my first episode was "Shibboleth" ... I was hooked.  I think TWW was in Season 4 by then, so I had to do some mean finagling to grab episodes on Bravo here and there until I could catch them all.  They were never in an order that made sense, so the first time I got to see them in order, I was blown away.

 

Bizz Buzz-just wondering...Having never seen the show before watching Shibboleth,  did you got goose bumps (and a little lump in your throat) at the words "Paul Revere" without knowing the characters and being in love with the show. I just got goosebumps typing the words "Paul Revere". all these years later. I think I have to go find that seen on youtube right now.

 

Edited to add-I LOVE the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQlUVfz_qbg

Yup, goosebumps still and have seen it dozens and dozens of times." I say this with all possible respect, but each of these knives cuts, you know, meat." "To whom". Nearly perfect writing and even better acting-we can slam Dule but that look after the words Paul Revere is amazing.

 

It dovetails nicely with my semi political crush on Rahm Emmanuel:-)

 

Or is it George Stephanopolis?

Edited October 7, 2015 by AriAu

[eyebleach]

It gets even worse with my cats....when they are in trouble I literally yell:

 

LEO THOMAS MCGARRY KITTY

TOBIAS ZACHARY ZIEGLER KITTEN

 

The first time I did it in front of my now ex-boyfriend, I thought it was going to choke on his own spit.

 

Yes, I know, I have a problem :)

[SingleMaltBlonde]

Bizz Buzz-just wondering...Having never seen the show before watching Shibboleth,  did you got goose bumps (and a little lump in your throat) at the words "Paul Revere" without knowing the characters and being in love with the show. I just got goosebumps typing the words "Paul Revere". all these years later. I think I have to go find that seen on youtube right now.

 

Edited to add-I LOVE the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQlUVfz_qbg

Yup, goosebumps still and have seen it dozens and dozens of times." I say this with all possible respect, but each of these knives cuts, you know, meat." "To whom". Nearly perfect writing and even better acting-we can slam Dule but that look after the words Paul Revere is amazing.

 

Or is it George Stephanopolis?

My crush or the inspiration?  Both are Rahm(mmm).

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2009/02/bradley_whitford_on_playing_ra.html

Edited October 8, 2015 by SingleMaltBlonde

[AriAu]

My crush or the inspiration?  Both are Rahm(mmm).

 

http://nymag.com/dai...playing_ra.html

 

So Sam is Stephanopoulis?

By the way, I met Rahm recently and he is very direct and not afraid to tell you what you should do...even if not popular. I think I relayed it in the forum but he had a "Vermont Dairy Farmers" moment where he told a real estate developer that he was going to do what he believed was right even if it hurt the developer (and major donor)

[BizBuzz]

Bizz Buzz-just wondering...Having never seen the show before watching Shibboleth,  did you got goose bumps (and a little lump in your throat) at the words "Paul Revere" without knowing the characters and being in love with the show. I just got goosebumps typing the words "Paul Revere". all these years later. I think I have to go find that seen on youtube right now.

 

Edited to add-I LOVE the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQlUVfz_qbg

Yup, goosebumps still and have seen it dozens and dozens of times." I say this with all possible respect, but each of these knives cuts, you know, meat." "To whom". Nearly perfect writing and even better acting-we can slam Dule but that look after the words Paul Revere is amazing.

 

Or is it George Stephanopolis?

 

It helped that I was already a Sorkin-ite before I watched TWW having been an avid Sports Night fan and then of course A Few Good Men and an Amercian President.  All of those set me up to understand Sorkins use of dialog and how exciting it was.

 

It also helped that I had a fellow Sorkin-ite watching it with me ... so he gave me a quick rundown on who Charlie was, and why that scene was so important.  With Charlie coming in with different knives, I knew it was a set up of some sort, didn't think it was going to be that poignant.  

 

And I know I am old, but Martin Sheen can always give me goose bumps.  LOL

[Diane]

Two Cathedrals is most likely the best written, acted hour of television ever. Loved the little details like Charlie taking his coat off because Bartlett isn't going to wear one. Love everything about this episode one of Sorkins best.

[Moose135]

And where else could you have a character curse at God in Latin, in a church, and have it feel completely in place?

[eyebleach]

Watching the end of Season 2 while I do some work - I know it well enough that I don't have to pay TOO close attention - but the look of absolute sick on Leo's face when he has to tell the President about Mrs. Landingham hits me every time!

 

[DebbieW]

I LOVED the moment when Charlie took off his coat because the President wasn't wearing his.  It was such a small moment, but screamed volumes.

[jaytee1812]

Yo-yo Ma Rules! I love Donna.

I love the painting sub-plot in Noel.

[jaytee1812]

I'm watching The Portland Trip, why on earth does the President have to be in Portland for midnight?

[BizBuzz]

I'm watching The Portland Trip, why on earth does the President have to be in Portland for midnight?

 

It was more about him having a budget meeting they thought was going to run late, so they made the flight late.  

 

If you ask Sam ... it was something about being poets.  ::giggle::

[jaytee1812]

Yeah but what on earth was happening in Portland at midnight?

[BizBuzz]

Yeah but what on earth was happening in Portland at midnight?

 

I could be wrong ... but there was no mention WHY there was a trip to Portland ... I always just assumed that there was a meeting in the morning he had to be there for.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

Isn't this the trip where Jeb does the speech about racing the sun to the west coast.

[BizBuzz]

Isn't this the trip where Jeb does the speech about racing the sun to the west coast.

 

This one?

 

BARTLET

A long flight across the night? You know why late flights are good? Because we cease to be earthbound and burdened with practicality. Ask the impertinent question. Talk about the idea nobody has thought about yet. [pointing to Sam] Put it a different way.

 

SAM

Be poets.

 

BARTLET

If you absolutely must.

[BizBuzz]

I love Ainsley Hayes!!!

 

In This White House ... what a great introduction to a character.

[Guest]

I love her so much.  I have a lot in common with her, except for the whole not-looking-like-that thing.  :) Did she get written off or did she choose to leave?  I thought she was underutilized, but I still missed her when she left.

[jaytee1812]

I think CSI: Miami happened, she was a regular on there.

[Kohola3]

She did have an interesting way of speaking.....

 

Ainsley Hayes: Mr. Tribbey? I'd like to do well on this, my first assignment. Any advice you could give me that might point me the way of success would be, by me, appreciated.
Lionel Tribbey: Well, not speaking in iambic pentameter might be a step in the right direction.

 

Tribbey was a hoot.

[Moose135]

And with that, I'm going back down to the mess, because I thought I may have seen, there, a peach.

[Guest]

 Yes, sir. I've been thinking about that ever since your office called me on Tuesday, and I have something to say on my own behalf, if you'll permit me a moment to say it, and I understand if you won't, but I would really appreciate it if you did.
 

[Driad]

West Wing was in season two in fall 2000 when the U.S. presidential election happened.  This election was a terrible mess that took more than a month to settle, and people still debate who should have won.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000

 

I was in a West Wing discussion group. We agreed that if this election had been a WW story line, it would have been condemned as ridiculous and unrealistic.  Most people expect fiction to make sense, but the real world does not have that constraint.

[betsyboo]

And with that, I'm going back down to the mess, because I thought I may have seen, there, a peach.

One of my all-time faves!

[BW Manilowe]

I love her so much. I have a lot in common with her, except for the whole not-looking-like-that thing. :) Did she get written off or did she choose to leave? I thought she was underutilized, but I still missed her when she left.

Ainsley was only a recurring character on TWW. When CSI: Miami came along, Emily Procter was offered a presumably better gig: the regular, weekly role of CSI Calleigh Duquesne, which she took (&, as much as I & others missed Ainsley, I don't think you can blame Emily since it was guaranteed weekly work as opposed to the periodic work she was getting on TWW).

[Guest]

In The Shadow of Two Gunmen is just so good.

[jaytee1812]

In The Shadow of Two Gunmen is just so good.

I'm watching just now.

CJ's briefing where she lists all of the other crimes involving guns is golden.

[Guest]

I think Jed was rude to the talk radio lady in The Midterms. She was rude first, yes. But that was not a proportional response at all. He pretty much used her slight rudeness as an excuse to use her as a punching bag for all his frustrations.

[Eeksquire]

 

I think Jed was rude to the talk radio lady in The Midterms. She was rude first, yes. But that was not a proportional response at all. He pretty much used her slight rudeness as an excuse to use her as a punching bag for all his frustrations.

I just restarted a rematch this weekend and it seems to me that this scene was foreshadowed almost from the beginning - first, with Jed throwing the Christian Right Trio out of the White House after Josh's little "The God you pray to is too busy being indicted for tax fraud!" cable tv tantrum (and calling out Josh and Toby's "New York sense of humor" and then second, with his questioning of the virtue of a proportional response when Morris was killed.  No one in the Bartlett White House ever really had any use for the extreme Christian Right, despite the show going out of its way to demonstrate that President Bartlett was a devout Catholic himself.  Devout, but tolerant of other people, which I think was the key.

 

Also, it's a little bit of wish fulfillment.  Who among us doesn't have someone in our life that we wouldn't love to smack down in just that way - super articulately, in front of an audience, and in a position of authority so secure that they really can't fight back? I know I do.  It's not my best quality, but there it is anyway.