Spoilers and Discussion

[shantown]

One blogger even wrote they felt sorry for Chord.

I don't feel one bit bad for Chord. He'll do just about anything to get screentime, and I'm sure he has no problem stepping in as a love interest again, especially to one of the main characters.

 

I agree with  this.  At the same time having little time to develop them together as a couple, ( Sam kisses Rachel  because he's fucking hypnotized...) makes whatever they do with Samchel ultimately have no stick.

I just hate that because Samchel will be forced upon us but because they have no time to build up a backstory/foundation that makes sense, we'll get this. Hypnotism leading to yet another endgame soulmate love.

[Hookian]

I don't feel one bit bad for Chord. He'll do just about anything to get screentime, and I'm sure he has no problem stepping in as a love interest again, especially to one of the main characters.

 

I just hate that because Samchel will be forced upon us but because they have no time to build up a backstory/foundation that makes sense, we'll get this. Hypnotism leading to yet another endgame soulmate love.

Well they probably are gonna be endgame. I mean if you guys do recall Falchuk pretty much suggested this is the story they wanted to do in S5, but couldn't. I understand why they couldn't because Sam and Rachel having sparks 3 episodes after Finn dies is a little ridiculous so they shelved it till this year. In the meantime they gave Samcedes another shot knowing that they were not gonna go through with it in the end. The way they treated them was ridiculous. Not to mention that the writers basically showed time and time again that Samcedes are not meant for each other and that the writers do not like Samcedes.

 

Mercedes treated him like a child, Sam cheated on her, hell even their friends(which echoed the writers said) "you guys should break up", "we never saw any chemistry". No other couple on the show has been treated like that and it's simply because Samcedes was used as a placemat for Samchel. That's seriously all there is to it.

 

Now when I say Samchel is endgame, yes they will end the show together. However Rachel will still get to NYC. What I think will happen is they will say ILY's to each other, he will let her go but he or they both say that this isn't over, it's just beginning or some BS like that. Then queue a flashforward to Rachel 5 years later or whatever accepting a Tony and everybody their and then she says a big speech talking about everything from Glee Club to Finn and then she says something about "her fiancee Sam Evans" or something and we see that they stayed together.

 

Honestly this is such a predictable storyline and yeah the hypnosis is absolutely stupid but you guys gotta remember this is coming from the mind of Sue Sylvester. She's pretty much a cartoon villain at this point, so it's not shocking that her plans for Klaine/Samchel come straight out of a flipping cartoon. Mercedes is obviously gonna be treated as the obstacle, brutal to say yeah but honest. Sam says he loves Mercedes in episode 4. Okay that's stardard cliche right there. Rachel is being placed as the underdog and it's the first time since Finn died that she's opened her heart to another chance and she gets shot down. This cements Mercedes as the obstacle. Then in episode 6 him and Rachel sing a song which pretty much is about never falling in love but by the end of the song it's pretty clear they will start falling in love with each other.

 

Episode 9 I think will be about basically Mercedes being okay in the end with Sam and Rachel and moving on. Amber has not been spotted on set in a while so we shall see if she returns or not. I think she will but I think that's probably to set up Artie and Mercedes. 

 

As far as Sam's character, the fact that the dude is not proposing marriage in 3 episodes is character development on his part. Every relationship Sam has had on the show by the 3rd episode he's declaring them soulmates, marriage w/kids, hell he even married Brittany. So I guess that fact separates Samchel from the rest of his relationships.

 

It just seems obvious at this point what is going to happen and I kind of think Mercedes will get w/ Artie in the end but that's just a feeling.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[Ann Mack]

Well they probably are gonna be endgame. I mean if you guys do recall Falchuk pretty much suggested this is the story they wanted to do in S5, but couldn't. I understand why they couldn't because Sam and Rachel having sparks 3 episodes after Finn dies is a little ridiculous so they shelved it till this year. In the meantime they gave Samcedes another shot knowing that they were not gonna go through with it in the end. The way they treated them was ridiculous. Not to mention that the writers basically showed time and time again that Samcedes are not meant for each other and that the writers do not like Samcedes.

 

Mercedes treated him like a child, Sam cheated on her, hell even their friends(which echoed the writers said) "you guys should break up", "we never saw any chemistry". No other couple on the show has been treated like that and it's simply because Samcedes was used as a placemat for Samchel. That's seriously all there is to it.

 

Now when I say Samchel is endgame, yes they will end the show together. However Rachel will still get to NYC. What I think will happen is they will say ILY's to each other, he will let her go but he or they both say that this isn't over, it's just beginning or some BS like that. Then queue a flashforward to Rachel 5 years later or whatever accepting a Tony and everybody their and then she says a big speech talking about everything from Glee Club to Finn and then she says something about "her fiancee Sam Evans" or something and we see that they stayed together.

 

Honestly this is such a predictable storyline and yeah the hypnosis is absolutely stupid but you guys gotta remember this is coming from the mind of Sue Sylvester. She's pretty much a cartoon villain at this point, so it's not shocking that her plans for Klaine/Samchel come straight out of a flipping cartoon. Mercedes is obviously gonna be treated as the obstacle, brutal to say yeah but honest. Sam says he loves Mercedes in episode 4. Okay that's stardard cliche right there. Rachel is being placed as the underdog and it's the first time since Finn died that she's opened her heart to another chance and she gets shot down. This cements Mercedes as the obstacle. Then in episode 6 him and Rachel sing a song which pretty much is about never falling in love but by the end of the song it's pretty clear they will start falling in love with each other.

 

Episode 9 I think will be about basically Mercedes being okay in the end with Sam and Rachel and moving on. Amber has not been spotted on set in a while so we shall see if she returns or not. I think she will but I think that's probably to set up Artie and Mercedes. 

 

As far as Sam's character, the fact that the dude is not proposing marriage in 3 episodes is character development on his part. Every relationship Sam has had on the show by the 3rd episode he's declaring them soulmates, marriage w/kids, hell he even married Brittany. So I guess that fact separates Samchel from the rest of his relationships.

 

It just seems obvious at this point what is going to happen and I kind of think Mercedes will get w/ Artie in the end but that's just a feeling.

 I don't think we have been watching the same show. How many times did the show break up and put Rachel and Finn back together yet they were intended to be endgame. How many times have the writers mistreated Santana and Brittany or Kurt and Blaine? So unless it was about those 2 everyone else has what just being marking time? Yes, it was too soon for those insensitive writers to put Sam and Rachel together 2 or3 episodes after a tribute and 1 after she got his named tattooed on her body. I think it was a bad idea then and an even worse idea now. But whatever the writers have shown they are incapable of writing a good relationship. I also think the only reason we are getting them together this season is you stated it Brad has a hair up his ass to make this happen, its the last season and he really doesn't give a damn about how this looks to some of the general audience and even worst to some who have been following the show from Season 1.

 

I personally think Sam and Mercedes had the most mature, honest, and trusting relationship ever presented on the show. He was quick and impulsive and she was grounded and logical. Mercedes never treated Sam like a child if anything she was the ONLY one who he ever acted mature with. Also, Sam did not cheat on Mercedes he was sexually harassed by some sleazy photographer who had the power to take away his dream (who he also resisted, cried in front of and ran away from and back to the woman he loved) there is a difference.  When they had the cast members referring to "no chemistry" they were taking a jab at people who continuously put that as a reason as to why they didn't think Sam and Mercedes worked together. Also, I think the friends telling them to "break-up" was again shitty writing.  As well as to mention that one of those friends who suggested she break up with Sam is now pursuing Sam (yeah not a good look for her IMO)

 

I will respect your "opinion" but that is all it is so please do not try to state it like its "fact" because unless you work for the show and have some inside connection to the writers room you just like everyone else do not know how this will work out and its all speculation. Even if they do work out it still is no way to treat either character. Sam is being a place-mat for Finn which in my opinion is insulting. To add further insult it's Rachel's first foray back into dating and the person they have approach her isn't even interested in her at the time. So from a sham beginning they make these 2 realize how much they really want each other and want viewers to believe that as well, like just forget we had to hypnotize Sam before he even thought to look Rachel's way.

 

Also, I think Mercedes is way better than being anyone's roadblock, as it stands right now she has a successful career and is doing her thing far away from Lima. Ohio. What I think most of us do know however is that once again, Sam is being manipulated by outside forces to get with someone who he didn't initially choose of his own free will (and yes this too is being done by the writers, just like "his" constant pursuit for Mercedes was in season 5.) 

 

BTW Amber was on the set the same days as the rest of the cast and crew during the final filming of the wedding. They all went on a holiday break and are returning this week if I'm not mistaken. So I'm not sure what "not spotted on set for awhile" you are referring to.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[Hookian]

 I don't think we have been watching the same show. How many times did the show break up and put Rachel and Finn back together yet they were intended to be endgame. So unless it was about those 2 everyone else has what just being marking time. Yes, it was too soon for those insensitive writers to put Sam and Rachel together 3 episodes after a tribute and 1 after she got his named tattooed on her body. I think it was a bad idea then and an even worse idea now. But whatever the writers have shown they are incapable of writing a good relationship. i personally think Sam and Mercedes had the most mature, honest, and trusting relationship ever presented on the show. He was quick and impulsive and she was grounded and logical. Mercedes never treated Sam like a child if anything she was the ONLY one who he ever acted mature with. Also, Sam did not cheat on Mercedes he was sexually harassed by some sleazy photographer who had the power to take away his dream (who he also resisted, cried in front of and ran away from and back to the woman he loved) there is a difference.  When they had the cast members referring to "no chemistry" they were taking a jab at people who continuously put that as a reason as to why they didn't think Sam and Mercedes worked together. And I will value and respect your "opinion" but that is all it is so please do not try to state it like its "fact" because unless you work for the show and have some inside connection to the writers room you just like everyone else do not know how this will work out and its all speculation. Even if they do work out it still is no way to treat either character. Sam is being a place-mat for Finn which in my opinion is insulting. To add further insult it's Rachel's first foray back into dating and the person they have approach her isn't even interested at the time in her. What I think most of us do know however is that once again, Sam is being manipulated again by outside forces to get with someone who he didn't initially choose (and yes this too is being done by the writers, just like "his" constant pursuit for Mercedes was in season 5. 

 

Oh boy I love when people start their arguments by saying I'm watching a different show then they are, it's the perfect kickstarter to a passionate post.  Alright well you're hilarious if you honestly think the writers give two craps about Samcedes. 

 

1st I suggest you do not compare them to Finchel, they're nothing like Finchel AT ALL. Was Finchel ever simply forgotten or ignored for seasons on end? No they were not. Even when Finchel were apart did they have storylines circling around each other...yes they did. Samcedes... no not even close. They didn't even reference each other for over a season and a half and Mercedes joked about them being together.

 

2nd. I'm sorry but bud he cheated. HE KISSED HER BACK! That constitutes as cheating, it doesn't matter how guilty he felt afterwards, he still cheated on her. You're not gonna play this game with me. Saying "oh no well he didn't mean it". It wouldn't have been cheating if he did not kiss her back, but he did so yes it's cheating. If it was like Emma and Finn's kiss then that's not cheating because Emma did not kiss back.  She just looked very shocked. Meanwhile he kept on getting horny looking at all the models and had to use the rubber band. Nice try though.

 

Do not tell me I'm not watching the same show as you please, you're clearly a Samcedes fan. So you want to go through your shipper interpretation, but I'm giving you facts. She absolutely treated him like a child, just look at the situation with the dog for goodness sakes. They argued every stinking episode about something different. It was ridiculous.

 

Samcedes is absolutely nowhere near the level of Finchel. Heck they're not even near the level of Brittana,lol. I'm sorry but the writers have shown time and time again that they do not care for this couple. They used S5 to basically say these two are not compatible. They've wanted to do Samchel, they used Samcedes as a placemat, while they waited till this year so they can tell the story they've wanted to tell since S5. It's honestly as simple as that, and be in denial all you want but it's pretty dang clear this is what they've always wanted.

 

I also don't see Sam as a placemat for Finn and I personally think you're just trying to downgrade the relationship he could have with Rachel but that's neither here nor there. I just found it hilarious that you honestly tried to compare Samcedes to Finchel. Meanwhile it's Samchel and Klaine that are paralleling each other a lot and in episode 4 both plots really start rolling. Gee what does that tell you? Hmm... and Klaine and Finchel were synonymous with parallels to one another consistently.

 

Also you're whole "manipulation" thing is BS, sure it starts with the hypnosis thing but it clearly doesn't continue that way AT ALL. Unless you're trying to imply Sam is hypnotized for the entire season to be in love with Rachel? Please tell me you're not.

 

Maybe this will be the first time he chooses to be with someone of his own accord? This is the first relationship he's been it where he's not flipping proposing 3 episodes later, or announcing undying love or that their soulmates which he's done for every relationship he's been in before. So this is certainly some definite character development for him. They probably did this because they want Samchel to be separated from his other relationships. 

 

These writers are predictable as heck. They're not subtle with their intentions ever.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[caracas1914]

The one thing they actually got right in Season 5 NY was Mercedes/Rachel friendship. They had no competitive/career/romance rivalry baggage any more. Rachel reacted as a friend to Mercedes Sam dynamics so of course with uncanny consistency, once again the show is going to deconstruct one of the few good elements.

[tom87]

The one thing they actually got right in Season 5 NY was Mercedes/Rachel friendship. They had no competitive/career/romance rivalry baggage any more. Rachel reacted as a friend to Mercedes Sam dynamics so of course with uncanny consistency, once again the show is going to deconstruct one of the few good elements.

It is their MO let Rachel go two steps forward just to send her back 3 steps later on.

[Ann Mack]

Oh we are absolutely watching the same show. However you're hilarious if you honestly think the writers give two craps about Samcedes. 

 

1st I suggest you do not compare them to Finchel, they're nothing like Finchel AT ALL. Was Finchel ever simply forgotten or ignored for seasons on end? No they were not. Even when Finchel were apart did they have storylines circling around each other...yes they did. Samcedes... no not even close. They didn't even reference each other for over a season and a half and Mercedes joked about them being together.

 

2nd. I'm sorry but bud he cheated. HE KISSED HER BACK! That constitutes as cheating, it doesn't matter how guilty he felt afterwards, he still cheated on her. You're not gonna play this game with me. Saying "oh no well he didn't mean it". It wouldn't have been cheating if he did not kiss her back, but he did so yes it's cheating. If it was like Emma and Finn's kiss then that's not cheating because Emma did not kiss back.  She just looked very shocked. Meanwhile he kept on getting horny looking at all the models and had to use the rubber band. Nice try though.

 

Do not tell me I'm not watching the same show as you please, you're clearly a Samcedes fan. So you want to go through your shipper interpretation, but I'm giving you facts. She absolutely treated him like a child, just look at the situation with the dog for goodness sakes. They argued every stinking episode about something different. It was ridiculous.

 

Samcedes is absolutely nowhere near the level of Finchel. Heck they're not even near the level of Brittana,lol. I'm sorry but the writers have shown time and time again that they do not care for this couple. They used S5 to basically say these two are not compatible. They've wanted to do Samchel, they used Samcedes as a placemat, while they waited till this year so they can tell the story they've wanted to tell since S5. It's honestly as simple as that, and be in denial all you want but it's pretty dang clear this is what they've always wanted.

 

Might not be what you want, but this is what they've wanted to tell since S5. I also don't see Sam as a placemat for Finn and I personally think you're just trying to downgrade the relationship he could have with Rachel but that's neither here nor there. I just found it hilarious that you honestly tried to compare Samcedes to Finchel. Meanwhile it's Samchel and Klaine that are paralleling each other a lot and in episode 4 both plots really start rolling. Gee what does that tell you? Hmm... and Klaine and Finchel were synonymous with parallels to one another consistently.

 

Also you're whole "manipulation" thing is BS, sure it starts with the hypnosis thing but it clearly doesn't continue that way AT ALL. Unless you're trying to imply Sam is hyPnotized for the entire season to be in love with Rachel? He's not being manipulated into anything, this is the first relationship he's been it where he's not flipping proposing 3 episodes later, or announcing undying love or that their soulmates which he's done for every relationship he's been in before. So this is certainly some definite character development for him. They probably did this because they want Samchel to be separated from his other relationships. 

Your opinion and you're entitled to it. 

Edited January 6, 2015 by Ann Mack

[caracas1914]

Yup, these writers want Rachel's female friendships to simply not last.

Whereas every "bro" friendship is the greatest ever. No rivalries, no hard feelings, just fist pumps of awesome comraderie.

So when I read tweeners gushing about the glorious Blam dynamics it's so obvious the blatant sexist aspects that highlight the difference of these male dynamics versus female flies straight over their tweeners heads.

Edited January 6, 2015 by caracas1914

[Craphole Island]

To be fair, Sam kissed that model but Mercedes didn't consider cheating so I don't really see why we should.

 

(At least, if memory serves.)

[Hookian]

To be fair, Sam kissed that model but Mercedes didn't consider cheating so I don't really see why we should.

 

(At least, if memory serves.)

 

She may not have considered it cheating but it's definitely cheating. Kissing someone else while being w/ another person is cheating. Plain and simple. 

 

The only way it would not have been cheating is if Sam did not kiss her back, or he was under the influence of alcohol but even then that's tricky. Plus he used the rubber band trick multiple times in the episode.

 

The only kiss on Glee that was not cheating was Finn and Emma. Emma did not kiss back and she looked disgusted and shocked. 

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[caracas1914]

They used S5 to basically say these two are not compatible.

 

No, that was Klaine.

[Hookian]

Yup, these writers want Rachel's female friendships to simply not last.

Whereas every "bro" friendship is the greatest ever. No rivalries, no hard feelings, just fist pumps of awesome comraderie.

So when I read tweeners gushing about the glorious Blam dynamics it's so obvious the blatant sexist aspects the difference of these male dynamics versus female flies straight over their tweeners heads.

Who says the friendship with Mercedes won't last. I'm sure that's the purpose of episode 9. For Mercedes to give her blessing after they go back to all the things they've clashed about in the past. Then they'll move on. 

No, that was Klaine.

 

No that was Samcedes. Did Klaine get their friends saying "you guys should break up" " you guys have no chemistry"? Very simple answer, no they did not. 

 

I get that Sam and Rachel is very rushed but they had no other choice. If they would have gone with it when they wanted to everybody including myself would have been pissed and labeled it a 100% rebound relationship. BC it was way too early for Rachel to move on from Finn after he died 3 episodes before. So they shelved it until now. They've given Rachel a season to grieve and now they're ready to tell the story they've always wanted to tell. Since 5x06 this is that story, it was just put on the backburner and they used Samcedes in the meantime in prep for it. 

 

They left little hints here and there. Very not subtle cuts to Rachel being upset over Samcedes in 15. In Tested her talk with Mercedes, I personally got the vibe that she wasn't being completely honest but that's my opinion. I think she was just more focused on helping her troubled friend.

[Ann Mack]

To be fair, Sam kissed that model but Mercedes didn't consider cheating so I don't really see why we should.

 

(At least, if memory serves.)

 

 Sam explained to Mercedes that the photographer was aggressive and all over him. I stated above I call it more "sexual harassment"  than cheating since she had power over him to take away his dream, Sam even told her this was his dream. I think if they would have put a female character in the same position with an aggressive male making the same advances and having the power to possibly end her dream then maybe it would be seen as the cringe worthy as "sexual harassment"  it was. But that is just my opinion and I think he did whatever the peck of a kiss with her out of fear. Because the photographer lady was definitely wanting more.

[Hookian]

 Sam explained to Mercedes that the photographer was aggressive and all over him. I stated above I call it more "sexual harassment"  than cheating since she had power over him to take away his dream, Sam even told her this was his dream. I think if they would have put a female character in the same position with an aggressive male making the same advances and having the power to possibly end her dream then maybe it would be seen as the cringe worthy as "sexual harassment"  it was. But that is just my opinion and I think he did whatever the peck of a kiss with her out of fear. Because the photographer lady was definitely wanting more.

...It was way more than a peck. But anyways it's neither here nor there. Cheating is cheating.

[jaytee1812]

Who says the friendship with Mercedes won't last. I'm sure that's the purpose of episode 9. For Mercedes to give her blessing after they go back to all the things they've clashed about in the past. Then they'll move on.

That's not friendship. Even if they stay friends it looks like Rachel can only be friends win she beats in competition whether it be for men or roles.

[Craphole Island]

 

 

No that was Samcedes. Did Klaine get their friends saying "you guys should break up" " you guys have no chemistry"? Very simple answer, no they did not. 

 

 

Did this really happen? I'm not saying I don't believe you I just genuinely don't remember. And I pay pretty close attention to Sam-involved scenes as I'm like the only Sam/Chord fan on this forum heh.

[Hookian]

That's not friendship. Even if they stay friends it looks like Rachel can only be friends win she beats in competition whether it be for men or roles.

 I don't get that vibe personally. I feel like they'll be fine especially once they go through the 2009 flashbacks. Only time will tell though.

Did this really happen? I'm not saying I don't believe you I just genuinely don't remember. And I pay pretty close attention to Sam-involved scenes as I'm like the only Sam/Chord fan on this forum heh.

Yes it happened because Sam went to them for advice every episode about what was going on and their friends said these things to them. They pretty much spoke what the writers thought because they've shown time and time again that they do not care for Samcedes.

[caracas1914]

No that was Samcedes. Did Klaine get their friends saying "you guys should break up"

 

Who said that?

Heaven knows I don't think Samcedes is a perfect relationship but for the amount of screentime they occupied in NY Glee I think it's fair to say it was a relationship the show wanted to explore. We are not taking Santana/Dani or Kurt/Adam levels of focus here.

Samcedes as a relationship was referenced in 3 separate seasons, even given the A Storyline in S5: " Bashed".

That's as much as any couple got not named Finchel/Klaine.

[Hookian]

Who said that?

I haven't watched the NYC arc since it aired but I'm pretty sure one of the people was Rachel, ironically.

[jaytee1812]

I don't get that vibe personally. I feel like they'll be fine especially once they go through the 2009 flashbacks. Only time will tell though.

I'm not talking about vibe I'm talking about what is actually being shown and Rachel has competed either talent wise or boyfriend wise with every girl in New Directions except Brittany and she's won every time. These are her only friends, she has no close friends she's never been in competition with.

[shantown]

No that was Samcedes. Did Klaine get their friends saying "you guys should break up" " you guys have no chemistry"? Very simple answer, no they did not. 

With Samcedes they might have SAID that, but with Klaine they constantly SHOWED how terrible Kurt and Blaine are together.

 

 

 

I get that Sam and Rachel is very rushed but they had no other choice. 

They had the choice to not even do it.

[Hookian]

With Samcedes they might have SAID that, but with Klaine they constantly SHOWED how terrible Kurt and Blaine are together.

 

They had the choice to not even do it.

Well the difference is they want Klaine to be endgame, they don't want that for Samcedes and they made that point clear on more than one occasion.

 

True they had that choice but...they've wanted to do this for a season already. This was their plan since 5x06, but they had to stall it. It's very simple to understand, honestly. I'm not shocked they're doing this, because they were NOT at all subtle with the set ups and it's proven time and time again.

[caracas1914]

I don't recall Rachel advising Samcedes to break up.

Having said that Samchel is happening, whether that is good or bad is of course, a matter of opinion. If Samcedes was used as a placemat, ( an arguable point IMO) it makes the amount of screentime they got certainly stupid on the writers part, since all they pointed out time and time again how immature Sam was.

Since they hooked Sam with so many girls since the show began I Can't see how ending up with Rachel out of the blue doesn't look like a sloppily rushed and implausible relationship which happens just because.

Edited January 6, 2015 by caracas1914

[Hookian]

 

Who said that?

Heaven knows I don't think Samcedes is a perfect relationship but for the amount of screentime they occupied in NY Glee I think it's fair to say it was a relationship the show wanted to explore. We are not taking Santana/Dani or Kurt/Adam levels of focus here.

Samcedes as a relationship was referenced in 3 separate seasons, even given the A Storyline in S5: " Bashed".

That's as much as any couple got not named Finchel/Klaine.

 

 

S2= Completely written off at end of season

S3= Completely written off at end of season.

S4= Completely ignored

S5= Stall for Sam/Rachel basically. They needed episodes to kill, and that's why the plots were very weak all around. That's why they've come back to Lima for the final season and Sam and Rachel are faculty at Mckinley right now.

 

Sure they explored it and they did it with the intentions that they were going to end it to set up Samchel. 

 

Finchel nor Klaine ever had this issue. Even when they were not together, they were always referenced. They were never ignored. You simply cannot compare Klaine/Finchel to Samcedes.

 

They had an opportunity to parallel Samcedes to Klaine, did they do that? No

They had an opportunity to give Samcedes duets in the NYC arc, did they do that? No

 

Meanwhile Samchel are being paralleled to Klaine(basically the core couple of the show now) starting in episode 4 with their shared plotline. They already have 2 duets, plus a heavily suggested one from 3 spoiler sources. If that third duet is confirmed then... I think that says it all personally.

 

Seems to me Samchel is more important to the writers than Samcedes going from this, not to mention what the writers have suggested.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[jaytee1812]

Having said that Samchel is happening, whether that is good or bad is of course, a matter of opinion. If Samcedes was used as a placemat, ( an arguable point IMO) it makes the amount of screentime they got certainly stupid on the writers part, since all they pointed time and time again how immature Sam was.

Has Sam had any storyline that didn't prove how immature. Actually that's true for Blaine too.

[Hookian]

Has Sam had any storyline that didn't prove how immature. Actually that's true for Blaine too.

Here's the deal with this. This is the 1st relationship Sam has ever had where he's not professing undying love in 2 episodes, he's not proposing in the following episode, and he's not declaring them soulmates or marrying them 2 episodes after that. This is big character development for him, the fact that he's actually taking it slow with this relationship is huge. Every relationship Sam has been in he's always done all those things I listed not even half way into the season. That's why to me none of his relationships have been special because it's the same thing over and over again w/ him. 

 

This is different.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[Myrna123]

I feel like I owe everyone on the board an apology for posting my thoughts about this show for so long before Hookian was here to tell us what to think. I'm really sorry I watched the show and formed what are clearly rogue and unauthorized conclusions about what I saw. Thank God we finally are being told the absolutely clear and undeniable truth about everything that's happened so far--and even more helpfully, about what will happen in the last 13 episodes. What's really weird is how before this point so many of us were coming up with varying conclusions about what we'd viewed.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Myrna123

[jaytee1812]

Here's the deal with this. This is the 1st relationship Sam has never had where he's not professing undying love in 2 episodes, he's not proposing in the following episode, and he's not declaring them soulmates or marrying them 2 episodes after that. This is big character development for him, the fact that he's actually taking it slow with this relationship is huge. Every relationship Sam has been in he's always done all those things I listed not even half way into the season. That's why to me none of his relationships have been special because it's the same thing over and over again w/ him. 

 

This is different.

They go from barely talking to each other to end game in under 9 episodes. In episode 4 he's still in love with Mercedes. How is that taking it slow?

[tom87]

I feel like I owe everyone on the board an apology for posting my thoughts about this show for so long before Hookian was here to tell us what to think. I'm really sorry I watched the show and formed what are clearly rogue and unauthorized conclusions about what I saw. Thank God we finally are being told the absolutely clear and undeniable truth about everything that's happened so far--and even more helpfully, about what will happen in the last 13 episodes. What's really weird is how before this point so many of us were coming up with varying conclusions about what we'd viewed.

Apparently he has seen the future episodes too.

Edited January 6, 2015 by tom87

[Hookian]

They go from barely talking to each other to end game in under 9 episodes. In episode 4 he's still in love with Mercedes. How is that taking it slow?

Well if you remember the spoiler from MJ it said "mostly" so to me it seems that Sam might not being completely honest with his reasons. Regardless though this is just Glee cliche in general. Whomever is the underdog, wins in the end. Rachel is the underdog, Mercedes is the obstacle. They've done this story IDK how many times with so many of the characters.

 

It's going slow because they're not professing love or anything in that short amount of time. It's very different from all of Sam's other relationships.

Apparently he has seen the future episodes too.

 

No i've just seen how predictable these writers are that nothing shocks me anymore. Plus reading interviews from last season helps as well, especially Falchuks since he more or less said Samchel is a go just not now basically. They gave Rachel a season to grieve Finn, now they're ready to tell the story they wanted to tell.

 

You don't want to believe that, well soon you will. Cause these writers are not subtle in the slightest with their intentions.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[whyme]

How is Rachel the underdog?

 

[Hookian]

How is Rachel the underdog?

How is Rachel not the underdog is the better question?

 

1. Her show got cancelled and she's moved back to Lima.
2. Her parents are getting a divorce.
3. She's struggling with trying to get enough people to join the Glee Club.
4. Sue is meddling once again in her affairs and trying to destroy the club
5. Her friendship with Kurt is being put to the test, as they try to work as co-directors.
6. The first time she opens her heart to the possibility of love since Finn's death, she gets shot down. The reason being the person she likes is in love with someone else cementing the person Sam loves(Mercedes) is the obstacle to Sam and Rachel.

If they were going to do Samcedes, it would be the opposite of that. Rachel would be the obstacle, but that's absolutely not the case.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[tom87]

 

How is Rachel the underdog?

They have systematically been taking everything away from her mostly by her own doing  to land her back in Lima therefore a Lima Loser underdog.

 

So not helping Rachel's case imo.

Edited January 6, 2015 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

They have systematically been taking everything away from her mostly by her own doing  to land her back in Lima therefore a Lima Loser underdog.

 

So not helping Rachel's case imo.

But she'll get her own way in the end, she always does. You're suppose to root for the underdog but I see no reason to root for Rachel.

[Hookian]

But she'll get her own way in the end, she always does. You're suppose to root for the underdog but I see no reason to root for Rachel.

LOL Well she's the star...so it's pointless not to root for the lead of the show, sorry.

[jaytee1812]

LOL Well she's the star...so it's pointless not to root for the lead of the show, sorry.

Good writers make you want to do that. I can't root for Rachel, Sam or Blaine, I don't see them work for anything. I see spoiled brats who run at the first sign of hard work or an obstacle.

I root for Kurt, Mercedes, Quinn, Tina, Puck, Mike and Santana.

[Hookian]

Good writers make you want to do that. I can't root for Rachel, Sam or Blaine, I don't see them work for anything. I see spoiled brats who run at the first sign of hard work or an obstacle.

I root for Kurt, Mercedes, Quinn, Tina, Puck, Mike and Santana.

Rachel this season is gonna have to work for everything though, not to mention she's gonna get the shock of her life when her the dads she thought were eternally in love are getting a divorce. From the get go she's gonna be completely an underdog. 

[jaytee1812]

Rachel this season is gonna have to work for everything though, not to mention she's gonna get the shock of her life when her the dads she thought were eternally in love are getting a divorce. From the get go she's gonna be completely an underdog.

Will's getting his choir to under perform to help her, Mercedes is walking away from her one serious relationship for her and all of her friends drop everything to come and help out.

Yeah, she's an underdog working real hard for everything.

[Myrna123]

Rachel this season is gonna have to work for everything though, not to mention she's gonna get the shock of her life when her the dads she thought were eternally in love are getting a divorce. From the get go she's gonna be completely an underdog.

And yet not one of the 200 or so viewers left watching this horrible show will doubt for even one minute that Rachel will end the show with everything she wants. And she will get it in the most predictable, non-organic, eye-roll worthy way possible. Which means the handful (literally) of viewers who limp through to the finish line will heave one last giant ho-hum as the final credits roll.

[tom87]

But she'll get her own way in the end, she always does. You're suppose to root for the underdog but I see no reason to root for Rachel.

I know your position you say it over and over.  I am not asking you to root for her  that does not mean other people can't.

 

I was answering someone as to why at this point she was  an underdog.

 

As far as me saying its not helping her case that was in relation  to certain comments acting as if Rachel is not mainly  the reason she is now back to underdog or loser which I am sure you prefer.

Edited January 6, 2015 by tom87

[Hookian]

Will's getting his choir to under perform to help her, Mercedes is walking away from her one serious relationship for her and all of her friends drop everything to come and help out.

Yeah, she's an underdog working real hard for everything.

 

Whoa that's only one plot and it completely backfires on her and Will even says he's not going easy anymore at the invitational. 

 

She is an underdog, you may not think so but she is in every aspect of her life this season.

[Craphole Island]

Yeah, Rachel may be the lead, but doesn't mean you necessarily need to root for her. I don't root against these people, but Rachel, Kurt, and Blaine are/were arguably the 3 biggest kid characters and I'm ambivalent to all of them. I prefer all the other characters more to be honest.

 

Also, I'd argue that Sam taking care of his family/siblings while he was homeless was an instance where he wasn't immature. Sadly, the show rarely did anything else with that (until it was finally given more mention when in Chris' episode)

[camussie]

She is an underdog, you may not think so but she is in every aspect of her life this season.

 

 

In your opinion.  In mine she isn't.  She spends all of one episode with her life blown up before she is singing "Let it Go" as if she has been oh so repressed and then by the next episode characters are bending over backwards for her.  It is a shame too because I want to be invested in the lead character's story more than it seems I am going to be.  

• I want to see her come to the realization she blew up her career and no one else of singing an anthem about being repressed by outside forces and learning to break free of those limitations
• I want to see her steel herself for the future and rebuild her life instead of asking Will to throw competitions for her. 
• I want to see her think about her friends before she jumps into a relationship with one of their exes - an ex she advised said friend to break up with

 

I shouldn't be this indifferent to the lead's story by unfortunately at this point I am.  

 

As for Sam/Rachel whether you are for them or not I still say if doing a romance with them has been a plan since probably early on (I said about a week after Cory passed I bet they go there considering how they tried to sell Sam Finn 2.0 in season 2 and considering how formulaic the writers have gotten over the years) then it was just bad writing to focus so much on Sam/Mercedes in the New York arc last season.  I would say after Rachel's career arc it was the story that got the most play. Why do that to the point of them being called soulmates if they were just a place to park Sam until this season and why have Rachel of all people be the one to advise Mercedes to break up with Sam?  Given that she secretly dates him this season it makes her look shady as hell.

 

Also if they want me to buy that Sam/Rachel is this grand endgame romance (and they may very well do it) then I feel it was dumb as hell to double down on the Sam is Finn 2.0 writing.  Because they did that I think there will always be quite a few who wonder "Did Rachel fall Sam for Sam or is she with him because she sees him as a Finn replacement?" That was always going to be a question with any new Rachel romance considering how much focus Finn/Rachel got over the years but with the Sam=Finn 2.0 anvils it is now like a Serengeti heard of elephants in the room. 

 

I would also argue that Sam being hypnotized into kissing Rachel and telling her he still has feelings for Mercedes in 604 and them singing love songs to each other by 610 (as is one rumor) is not different at all than his usual MO.  It all still happens in a matter of weeks given that Glee will be on a condensed timeline this season.  

 

Finally I would argue that if Sam/Rachel are indeed endgame then having Sam flat out say he doesn't like NY even after he had success there was also a dumb as hell decision unless  Rachel's endgame is staying in Lima (which I don't want for the character even as un-invested as I am).  Sam has lived in New York, found his dream there (of his junk being on a bus), and said unequivocally it isn't for him.  I don't see how that can be resolved even with a flash forward (which I hope they don't do because I really think the place Rachel's story should end is joyfully performing in an off-broadway venue with us knowing there is more to come).  

 

By the way neither Sam nor Rachel nor Kurt are faculty at Lima.  To actually be faculty they would have to have degrees and none of them do.  They are coaches or assistant coaches for extra-curricular activties

Edited January 6, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Yea, we'll let's see how the show has telegraphed the Samchel end story:

 

Season 2:  Sam/Quinn,  Sam/Santana,   Sam/Mercedes

Season 3:  Sam/Mercedes (Throw in how older strip club  woman helped Sam lose virginity)

Season 4:  Sam/Brittany Sam/Blaine (hey he got sung a love song)

Season 5   Sam/Nurse Penny,   Sam/Tina,  Sam/Mercedes

Season 6:  Sam and Rachel END STORY ETERNAL SOULMATES

 

Hmmmm....I dunno...one of those things doesn't seem to quite fit...

Edited January 6, 2015 by caracas1914

[Anna Yolei]

The Asian stereotype most typically would have Mike portrayed as a nerdy kinda asexual guy. But they had him on the football team and standing up to bullies on Kurt's behalf. I don't think he was always submissive. To me Mike was just a nice guy that wanted to make his parents happy, which can be an Asian stereotype but it's not unique to Asian kids (living up to parents expectations). They could have left off the medical school thing though. That was a bit much. I mean it wasn't perfect, but I still think he's better written than most of the other characters. Baby steps I guess.

I can see where others are coming from...but I agree with this. Submitting to parental pressure isn't a unique problem to Asian culture, as I've known many a kid that purposely let their grades tank to be kicked off of football because an overbearing father attempting to relive his glory days wouldn't allow him to quit.

[caracas1914]

I think where they neutered Mike is because unlike the white guys on the show , he didn't seem to have any romantic options outside of "Asian couple" with Tina, which  considering how Mike looks, is positively insane.

[Anna Yolei]

She is an underdog, you may not think so but she is in every aspect of her life this season.

The writers tell us this, sure.

But underdogs usually have an appriciate on when they have as big a break as Rachel got getting the lead of Funny Girl. They don't get not one, but TWO big opportunities back-to-back that get thrown away. And that's saying nothing of Rachel's general entitlement combined with getting everything she wants in under two tries anyway before season five happened.

Ryan Murphy does not know how to write underdogs. Or, yanno, any of the characters but it's pretty noticeable where Rachel Berry is concerned.

[camussie]

answering about underdogs in the all episodes thread.

[Craphole Island]

Songs are out. I actually really like the Homecoming songs. You can hear everyone (including Chris and Dianna) a lot clearer on the full version of "Take on Me". Plus, I really like "Home" but I LOVE that original song so that may be part of it. I was afraid I would hate it because of that reason but I actually really like it (even though they cut out a big chunk that I like).

 

I didn't listen to the songs from episode 1 because to be honest, I don't have much of a desire to.

[Hookian]

Yea, we'll let's see how the show has telegraphed the Samchel end story:

 

Season 2:  Sam/Quinn,  Sam/Santana,   Sam/Mercedes

Season 3:  Sam/Mercedes (Throw in how older strip club  woman helped Sam lose virginity)

Season 4:  Sam/Brittany Sam/Blaine (hey he got sung a love song)

Season 5   Sam/Nurse Penny,   Sam/Tina,  Sam/Mercedes

Season 6:  Sam and Rachel END STORY ETERNAL SOULMATES

 

Hmmmm....I dunno...one of those things doesn't seem to quite fit...

 

Well tragically their was an unfortunate death and the writers had to write another ending. So between Sam/Penny they had Samchel shining neon lights but then realized it was too early and so they used Samcedes to stall Samchel till this season. Samchel has always been their plan since S5.