Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Starfish35]

I'd be really surprised if it was Harley.  I know things have changed somewhat recently as far as who they're allowed to use (Superman appearing on Supergirl), but Arrow was barred from using Harley back in season three for their Suicide Squad episodes.  

Besides, Harley may have originated in B:TAS, but she's made the jump to comics, like Barbara Gordon originated in the 60s Batman TV show and then jumped to the comics.  So I think "not from the comics" would disqualify her.

My awful thought of the day is that it is Black Siren.  Black Siren is not a comics character - she only appeared in a couple of episodes of Justice League, as an alternate 50s universe version of Black Canary.  But I'm hoping that the fact that the Arrowverse version of her originated on Flash eliminates her. 

[Starfish35]

It sounds like there's going to be at least two newbies, so that probably means at least two exits of current team members, like Nate and Amaya replaced Snart and Kendra. 

One of the new people is this mystery character that MG teased.  

1. An established character.
2. Not from the comics.
3. Not original to the show.
4. Not from any of the other DC Arrowverse shows.
5. Possibly an original character from another DC-based movie or TV show.

So what are some original characters from other shows or movies? 

1. Chloe Sullivan - Smallville (from @Sakura12) 
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?

Edited March 20, 2017 by Starfish35

[Maverick]

 Perhaps it's one of the many villains created for the 1960's Batman.   Bookworm, King Tut, Egghead, Minerva.  The list is endless.   They've shown an affinity for the Hanna Barbara cartoons, so maybe we'll get Samurai, Black Vulcan, El Dorado or Apache Chief.   I don't think even this show is campy enough to handle the Wonder Twins or Wendy and Marvin.   

[Starfish35]

I'm not sure they would use Wendy anyway, since they've borrowed from her a little bit for Felicity on Arrow (The Calculator being her father).

[Sakura12]

I was joking about Chloe. Lol. 

What other DC shows had original characters? Or their strange wording could be misleading and they mean Gideon or Lily Stein. 

[Starfish35]

34 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I was joking about Chloe. Lol. 

What other DC shows had original characters? Or their strange wording could be misleading and they mean Gideon or Lily Stein. 

Oh I figured you were.  :) I just couldn't think of anyone else to start the list. Lol.

It could be misleading.  I remember something that was said before Hawkgirl was announced, about the character never having been on a TV show before, that led a lot of people to rule her out because of Justice League.  Turned out they meant live action (and even that was questionable apparently because she had a small appearance on Smallville). 

But if it's literal, it could be a lot of characters, as Maverick pointed out.  

[feverfew]

26 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I was joking about Chloe. Lol. 

What other DC shows had original characters? Or their strange wording could be misleading and they mean Gideon or Lily Stein. 

I know. It just made me very happy (Chloe's still on my top ten of favourite characters ever - despite all the ship-baiting done by TPTB).

I thought it could be Lily Stein too, but "not original to the show" puts a stop to that. I have no idea who it could be, besides her, though. But then again, I was always more of a Marvel Comics' girl...

[Starfish35]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think "not original to the show" rules out both Lily Stein and Gideon, although Gideon was my first reaction.  

I'm going to guess it's going to be a character from one of the animated shows though.  It just seems like a more likely pool to draw from, than a show like Smallville, or one of the movies.As to which characters on those shows are original and which are not..... that's beyond my area of expertise. Lol.

[MarkHB]

I think Chloe is actually a good guess, as are the heroes from Super Friends (except Black Vulcan, as he's a knockoff of Black Lightning and the latter is getting his own pilot).

[Sakura12]

They also said not in the comics. Which rules out a lot of characters. Do the animated shows have original characters? I figured the animated ones can use whoever they want from the comics.

I'd love it if Chloe showed up. Having 2 of my favorite original characters together Chloe and Sara would be amazing. 

[Starfish35]

I'm a little iffy about the Chloe idea, for one because it's hard to imagine anyone playing that character but Allison Mack, for two because they've tried hard to avoid any connections at all between Smallville and the "Berlanti-verse" so I don't see them going there, and for three, because, well, Felicity.  I mean, I know Felicity and Chloe are different characters in many ways, but still. 

[Sakura12]

I highly doubt it's Chloe. I just don't know any other original characters from other DC shows/movies. 

Why aren't they just making their own original character. It worked with Felicity, Sara and Thea. 

[squidprincess]

I don't think we can rule out characters who've jumped to comics, because pretty much every character I can think of has popped up in the comics at least once after the fact.  I'm fairly sure Chloe has, and I think even Felicity (in her Arrow version, not the pre-existing Firestorm character of the same name) has as well.

But what are the DCU properties that they might be drawing from?  Off hand I can think of:

Smallville
Lois and Clark
the George Reeves Superman show
the 1960s Batman show
the various Batman and Superman animated series
the various incarnations of the Justice League or Superfriends
Birds of Prey
Wonder Woman
All of the various movies.

I'm sure I'm missing a few properties though.  

I have to admit, the only names that pop into my mind are Batman related, and I tend to think that between the upcoming movie and Gotham, that'd be a dicey prospect.

(I did find this list here.  I admit, a part of me would love to see Isis.  But we've already had Egyptian themed superheroes, and I rather doubt the CW has any interest in doing her justice.)

Edited March 20, 2017 by squidprincess

[MarkHB]

Isis would be great, especially if they could get Joanna Cameron to do a cameo, but we already have one amulet- based hero (Vixen), and given the unfortunate connection of the name Isis to certain insurrectionists in the Middle East I don't believe WB would be anxious to bring her back right now.

But they could bring back Mentor :)

Or, for that matter, Gus Gorman, but I really hope they don't ;).

[Proteus]

Chloe doesn't make much sense to me. She's not a character with powers and I doubt they'd want to incorporate anything from Smallville.

[squidprincess]

It might also depend on who they end up losing/writing out, or what kind of gaps there are in perspective now.  Amaya replaced Kendra as a heroine with physical powers that have a mystic origin.  Nate provided a newcomer's enthusiasm and viewpoint.

So if we were to lose Mick, for example, I think we'd probably be more likely to get another villain or ex-villain type.  

[Sakura12]

They did say it's an original character from another DC show not connected to the Arrowverse. Smallville fits that criteria.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Sakura12

[Featherhat]

6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I was joking about Chloe. Lol. 

What other DC shows had original characters? Or their strange wording could be misleading and they mean Gideon or Lily Stein. 

Well I think either Lily or Gideon (Android/hologram etc) are possible. Either Stein leaves because he wants to spend more time with Lily and finds a replacement for himself and Gideon happens (probably not Firestorm though) or he dies and Lily takes over in his honour as Jax did for Ronnie. Both girls have been well received IMO.

I think Amaya is a possible since it seems Nate is staying and it will give him a mopey arc for a while. I hope not as I like there and there is a possibility that she will rewrite Mari's future with the Spear as Barry has done with FlashPoint.

Possibility of Ray as Nate is a similar character and BR could probably relay "not getting his own spin off but doing well on LOT" into getting a pilot next season (although nothing so obvious as this season yet).

I don't think it will be Rip as they went to considerable lengths to accommodate AD and he's proven very versatile as Evil! and Director!Rip

Probably they won't off Sara again and it's doubtful she'll sail off into the sunset but you never know.

Mick, I really hope not as DP is a MVP this season, beyond whatever I could have thought when Mick joined Flash.

Edit

TV shows or movies. They didn't restrict it to tv shows.

Rachel Dawes so they get the chance to redo "we made DLL Rachel Dawes?" Although she'd be more useless on this show than Arrow. They don't give a shit about any laws. Eh, I'm not combing the movies and TV shows and Comics to get a short list, I'll just wait. I'm more interested in who is leaving although I would laugh my ass off if Chloe showed up.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Featherhat

[Starfish35]

TV shows or movies. They didn't restrict it to tv shows.

[Sakura12]

7 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Well I think either Lily or Gideon (Android/hologram etc) are possible. Either Stein leaves because he wants to spend more time with Lily and finds a replacement for himself and Gideon happens (probably not Firestorm though) or he dies and Lily takes over in his honour as Jax did for Ronnie. Both girls have been well received IMO.

They said it's not a character that originated on LoT or the other Arrowverse shows. That eliminates both Gideon and Lily Stein.

I know it's not restricted to television, however Smallville fits their criteria. I also know it won't be Chloe and I would want them to get her unless Alison Mack plays her anyway. 

[Starfish35]

I just would be flat out shocked if it ended up being a Smallville character.  I just don't think they're going to go there. But *shrug* it would not be the first or the last time I've been wrong. Lol.

[Featherhat]

It's probably someone I can't remember, don't care about or have never heard of but that does mean they won't get a good actor or a decent storyline. I have often liked Matt Letscher but I never regarded him much as RF until this season, TC had a lot of the great bits but he has really come in to his own here, even though his screen time is limited. I so hope both of those I mentioned show up again though, we need more recurring women on the ship at least, especially since Sara and Amaya are still fairly weary of each other and rarely talk.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Featherhat

[Miss Dee]

It's Pete! Guaranteed it's Pete!

[Starfish35]

Pete? Pete who?

ETA:  Do you mean Pete Ross? He's from the comics.  Unless you were joking, in which case I apologize that the joke went zooming over my head. :)

Edited March 20, 2017 by Starfish35

[Miss Dee]

Ugh. Never mind, pathetic joke on my part. I forgot he was in the comics. I shall leave my comment there as testimony to my patheticness. :p

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

Ugh. Never mind, pathetic joke on my part. I forgot he was in the comics. I shall leave my comment there as testimony to my patheticness. :p

I'm sorry! I guess I wasn't enough of a Smallville fan to get the joke.

[Proteus]

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

They did say it's an original character from another DC show not connected to the Arrowverse. Smallville fits that criteria.

But Chloe would add nothing to the show.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Proteus

[Lokiberry]

The Flash is adding Tracy Brand, a character who will be celebrated as a genius in the future, for 4 episodes. She's described as quirky and full of idiosyncrasies.

http://tvline.com/2017/03/20/the-flash-season-3-anne-dudek-recurring-tracy-brand/

I've searched DC wikipedia and can find no reference to her, and I don't remember her from any DC show. I know that she most likely has nothing to do with LoT, but I can't help speculating. If she's not the character we've been talking about, she still might be a replacement for another character, like Martin or Ray.

[Sakura12]

No one thinks Chloe is actually going to be on the show, she just fits the strange criteria they gave us. 

[Featherhat]

Well I like Anne Dudek in many things, even Big Love and in House as "Cutthroat Bitch" (really an on TV name) but I can't get that excited about much on The Flash at the moment. If she transfers to LOT I might get interested.

I don't think it would be Chloe ever really. For one thing she was last seen with Smallville!Ollie and the last thing that they probably want to do is introduce the quantum mechanics of "well the blonde BFF tech girl ended up with GA but he wasn't the lead of the show, just the Lead's friend and at one time she was in love with the lead and had a huge following within the fandom etc. She comes with a lot of baggage and a lot of comparisons for this show and they probably wouldn't want to deal with it even in the crossovers where we had small talks between several characters who know each other from different shows. But she probably would fit as well as dozens of characters I don't really care about, wherever they've come from until I see them on the show, which this will most likely be. I doubt Alison Mack would be interested and if they "reinvisioned" her then they might just as well have FS guest star a few times since that's what people would be comparing her to anyway, even though the actresses have played the characters completely different.

[squidprincess]

It ought to be someone who can bring something to the table.  Chloe, while I agree, is not a realistic candidate, also wouldn't be a good fit because she's a civilian.  She doesn't have powers, combat training, or specialized knowledge to bring to the table.  This isn't Doctor Who, where civilians join up to explore the universe.  The Legends are generally recruited for a purpose, kill Vandal Savage, or protect the timeline (by punching the people who would tamper with it.)  A scientist or tech expert could probably get away with joining without being combat capable, but a journalist better know how to throw a punch.

[Sakura12]

Chloe was a hacker too. She also had healing powers for a bit. But again I know it's not Chloe, I'm just having fun with it. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

It ought to be someone who can bring something to the table.  Chloe, while I agree, is not a realistic candidate, also wouldn't be a good fit because she's a civilian.  She doesn't have powers, combat training, or specialized knowledge to bring to the table.  This isn't Doctor Who, where civilians join up to explore the universe.  The Legends are generally recruited for a purpose, kill Vandal Savage, or protect the timeline (by punching the people who would tamper with it.)  A scientist or tech expert could probably get away with joining without being combat capable, but a journalist better know how to throw a punch.

Actually at the beginning of the final season in Smallville, Chloe traded herself for Ollie's release, eliminated her existence from all digital records, AND did, in fact, receive combat training. And those that stuck with the show during its entire run (I would be one of those), saw that in addition to being a great hacker, smart, funny, Chloe was now a badass who could kick butt.

And Felicity is also a comic book character-before Arrow premiered. She's just a totally different one, personality wise, in the comics, than she is on television. She's also a curly-haired bad perm, brunette. I think in comics, she's a businesswoman involved with Vibe. But don't quote me on the Vibe connection.

[Sakura12]

In the Comics, Felicity Smoak is Firestorm's stepmother. 

Chloe's journalism was also pushed aside once they retconned their Lois Lane into the Lois Lane from the comics. She spent the rest of her time on Smallville as Watchtower with the Justice League. Where she was a badass super hero in her own right. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

Fair enough.  It's been a long time since I saw any Smallville.  :-)

[Lokiberry]

Oh hell, it could be the Music Meister. I've been digging around and it turns out  the character was created for The Brave and The Bold animated series. He fits the criteria.

Now, how they'd fit a character who's super power is singing into the show is beyond me, but they've done wackier things. At least, there wouldn't be any costly fx involved.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Lokiberry

[Miss Dee]

Gah, this is Sleepy Hollow all over again! Waiting to hear the worst about your favourite character, only to have it actually happen in the worst way possible! I'm not going to make it until the finale....

Sorry for the rant. I'm convincing myself Mick is dead or The Evol now so it won't be so gut wrenching when it happens. My optimism is gone.

This is why I can't watch sports. LOL

[Starfish35]

Is there a new spoiler out that looks bad for Mick?

[Miss Dee]

Not at all, I'm just paranoid. I figure at least two people have to be leaving if they're adding two on.  And God knows one of them can't be Fucking Nate.

So I'm just ranting to relieve my feelings. Ask any Abbie fan. We're still shell-shocked.

[Proteus]

46 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Gah, this is Sleepy Hollow all over again! Waiting to hear the worst about your favourite character, only to have it actually happen in the worst way possible! I'm not going to make it until the finale....

Sorry for the rant. I'm convincing myself Mick is dead or The Evol now so it won't be so gut wrenching when it happens. My optimism is gone.

This is why I can't watch sports. LOL

Mick will be fine. If anyone needs to be worried it's Rip fans.

[Starfish35]

Let's see.  

The two people I'm 100% sure are coming back are Caity and Brandon.

Dominic Purcell I'm about 95% sure on.  The only slight uncertainty comes from allowing for the chance that he may want to do something else; otherwise I think Mick isn't going anywhere.

Nick Zano about 90%, just based on his own statement that he's coming back for next season.  

Franz Drameh .... 80%

Arthur Darvill ... I'm 50/50 on this one.  I could see it going either way.

Victor Garber ...30%  The last episode in particular had some heavy foreshadowing for Stein exiting, although it could be a red herring.

Maisie Richardson-Sellers .... 20%  I know there's disagreement about this, and I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're leading up to Amaya leaving at the end of the season and going back to Africa.  

(All percentages are completely non-scientific - lol)

Edited March 21, 2017 by Starfish35
Consistency

[Proteus]

I hope I can get over my Nate hate. I don't want to stop watching this show. I just don't know if Sara will be enough for me to hang on should Rip leave again. I guess I'll have to see what season 3 is about before deciding.

[Proteus]

I just knew Snarts return would be all about Mick and his relationship with Sara would be ignored. I love Caitys idea. The fact they didn't do it makes me hate Wentworths return even more now. Full article in link:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/20/legends-tomorrow-snart-captain-cold-return/

Alas, for those fans who were hoping the show would address that surprising Sara (Caity Lotz) and Snart kiss before his death, Lotz says the show hasn’t gone there — yet. “It’s a bummer,” Lotz says. “I really wanted to, but hopefully they’re saving it for another time. The focus of Snart is his relationship with Rory, the original bromance, and I was really bummed, actually, because I wanted to, in the alternative reality [Doomsworld], for Sara and Snart to be dating like a little Bonnie and Clyde. But the Rory-Snart relationship is really important, and they had a lot of story left to do with that, so we don’t get to see any of that in this one, but hopefully later; hopefully we’re saving it for later.”

Edited March 21, 2017 by Proteus

[Lokiberry]

Will Snart have any say in what's happening in Doomworld, or will it be all Eobard? If he has any say, Sara CAN'T be in a relationship with him because it wouldn't be consensual. She wouldn't have agreed to it of her own volition. I mean, these writers screw up a lot, but maybe this time they put some thought into it.

[Miss Dee]

Thanks everyone. It doesn't relieve my anxiety that they'll throw away every bit of Mick's growth just to turn him into a thief and Rogue again (looks like that's what they're doing with Cold, after all), but you're all really sweet!

For what it's worth, I don't think the writers would have set up the character arc they have for Rip (finding his mojo with the crew) if he were leaving. I think they would have left it ambiguous that he's not sure what to do now, thereby setting him up for a big sacrifice or a new path.

I also understand that they need to settle Mick and Len before moving on to Len and Sara, because that's been a big part of Mick's character arc this year. I really like Len and Sara too though, so I hope they get a chance to address that at some point once Mick and Len are resolved. 

[kirinan]

Here's another article about Snart's return:

https://moviepilot.com/p/captain-cold-returns-dcs-legends-tomorrow/4226676

I'm just so unreasonably excited that he's back tonight that I'll take whatever relationships I can get for now, bromance or romance. I do hope they eventually address something about the attraction between him and Sara, though. 

[Sakura12]

I understand them focusing on Mick and Snart since they have been a big part of each other's lives for a long time. 

I don't think the writers intended for Sara and Snart to be a thing, so they don't care about them as much. They get butt hurt when their planned pairings don't work and the fans latch onto another couple. That's what happened with Sara and Snart. 

[LolaRuns]

I'm guessing that this will be a younger Snart who doesn't remember any of them other than Mick. I don't think that he will join the Legends. But more like Mick will lay him to rest emotionally and stick with the Legends rather than running off with this Snart. 

[CTrent29]

As someone who doesn't "hate Nate", I wish the showrunners would just leave the cast alone.  This constant changing every season is starting to get on my nerves.

[Proteus]

Extended Doomworld promo: