Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[tarotx]

1 hour ago, WildcardC said:

He has faced consequences (Time Wraiths, wormhole, Zoom,Ronnie's death), yet yes he chose to be selfish and do it again anyway, creating FP. But the Legends have done selfish actions & repetitive mistakes ,with time too all season, IMO. Its just that the way Barry does time travel may have far reaching consequences that using a time machine, so he needs to be extra careful.  I do hope Barry will learn his lesson this time around and grow. 

But has he learned his lesson and wont pull the same tricks in season 2?  I wait to see...

 

 

I didn't say Rip learned his lesson because everything repeats. But Rip has experience. Barry doesn't think about anyone other than himself. That's why Barry needs to talk to someone with experience. He's supposed to be a hero. Our legends are not exactly on that front. Barry's not evil but he's selfish to extreme. Barry is never going to learn his lesson because the show doesn't give him the chance too since their way of handling it is - Hey Barry here's a pep talk. 

And should this discussion be moved to the Flash topic or the Mind Your Surroundings thread?

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6472-mind-your-surroundings-arrow-the-flash-supergirl-legends-of-tomorrow-and-other-superhero-universes/

LOT spoilers? Um um Well Nick Zano said his first scene is on the Arrow set. Maybe in relationship to Mayor Oliver Queen? Probably an easy way to share a set :p

Edited July 27, 2016 by tarotx

[CabotCove]

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And should this discussion be moved to the Flash topic or the Mind Your Surroundings thread?

Time travel happens in both LoT & Flash. The Flashpoint story is set to affect all 3 shows, in varying degrees. I personally see nothing thats off topic here¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  What we are talking about is related to or affects LoT. We are talking about shared universe spoilers, that this show is part of. I dont see why we have to go to another show's forum to talk about our show. JMO.

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Um um Well Nick Zano said his first scene is on the Arrow set. 

And he plays who?

Edited July 27, 2016 by WildcardC

[squidprincess]

He plays Nathan Heywood, Citizen Steel.

[Sakura12]

You know what I'd like to see, Mick Rory talking to Barry about time travel. Just to see the reactions of the rest of Team Flash in the background listening to Heatwave explain Barry's screw ups. He's not the dumb one anymore. 

[tarotx]

[Sakura12]

I guess Ray's getting left behind again. Hopefully Sara gave him so tips on how to survive. 

[Starfish35]

If Ray keeps getting left behind, he's going to end up as old as Stein.

[Sakura12]

Are they going to be jumping through time in the first episode? Yesterday's BTS pics showed all of them in 1942, today Ray looks like he's been stranded on an island for awhile. 

[Starfish35]

Lots of spoilers for LoT here: (first posted in the Mind Your Surroundings thread by @Morrigan2575)

http://www.slashfilm.com/legends-of-tomorrow-supergirl/

[MarkHB]

On 7/26/2016 at 8:42 PM, tarotx said:

And should this discussion be moved to the Flash topic or the Mind Your Surroundings thread?

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6472-mind-your-surroundings-arrow-the-flash-supergirl-legends-of-tomorrow-and-other-superhero-universes/

The discussion about Barry and his consequences (or lack thereof), to the extent it has nothing directly to do with LoT, should indeed be taken to the Flash forum.  Also, my co-mod and I have decided that nothing that came out of Comic-Con, or the TV Guide Special that was discussed earlier, counts as a "spoiler" within the intent of the forum.  Someone running around Vancouver with a Go-Pro and leaking scenes is a spoiler; the producers sitting on a panel directly addressing fans is not.  Those discussions may be taken to "Mind Your Surroundings," "Unspoiled Speculation," "Season 2 Anticipation," or elsewhere as seems appropriate.  Thanks!

[FurryFury]

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“We will be doing these iconic historical moments with recognizable historical figures,” Klemmer said. “To me, we had little things like H.G. Wells and we had a little shoutout to Bill Gates at a certain point. Season two, you’re going to see the icons of the 20th century. You’re going to have those versions of the Forrest Gump kind of moments with our guys trying to fix history but at the same time getting to play a part in these recognizable eras.” 

Ugh. I HATED that. Felt very contrived and cringeworthy. 

It's interesting that I don't have this reaction to historical characters in Doctor Who or El Ministerio del Tiempo (a Spanish TV show about time travel that I'm currently watching... but then, it actually has Diego Velazquez and Tomas de Torquemada in regular cast so you just learn to roll with it). So maybe it's just the writing, not the trope itself.

[kismet]

I'm actually concerned that there might be an oversaturation of time travel shows this fall (feels like every other new show has time travel) and then the whole FP impact with time fuckery redeux.

I'm looking fwd to LoT, I just hope they can put their own spin on it. They did good last season, but that might have been luck.

Sidebar- Ray in that photo looks like one of the cavemen from the old Geico commercials.

[MarkHB]

I thought maybe they were doing The Tempest (Sandman crossover confirmed! :) and he was playing Caliban.

[Sakura12]

Doctor Who always did well with their meeting of a historical figure. I loved when they met Shakespeare.  Doctor Who also never wrote those episodes for shock value. That's what LoT did so it came across very forced and awkward. I don't think that will change because these are the same writers that did all stupid crap on the other shows. 

What time period has never been shown on TV? I thought the other time travel shows have covered most of them. Although going back further than ever makes me think of dinosaurs. However they don't have the budget for that.  I'm still hoping for Roman Rip. 

[squidprincess]

I actually like the way Legends has handled historical figures so far.  It's very tricky to depict a historical figure because there's so much conflicting information.  You generally have to balance the pop culture idea of who this figure is with historical record.  It can be done very well or it can be done very poorly.

I liked the Legends' version because it was basically a cultural hat-tip that mainly was just important in terms of establishing a historical context.  Ray meeting Bill Gates's father was more important in terms of emphasizing to Ray that he was no longer in his own time.  Martin meeting HG Wells showed him that he had made the right decision by trying to help this child, because he knows this child will definitely survive into adulthood.  

It sounds like they'll be heading toward a more Doctor Who style, though.  So we'll have to see how that will work.

I did see an interview that indicated they might be going prehistoric in the season premiere.  That would be cool, if true.  I'm assuming that prehistoric would be cavemen rather than dinosaurs, though.

Edited July 28, 2016 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

According to an interview with MG at SDCC, LoT has 13 episodes with an option of the back 9.

I kind of hope they keep at 13. I think that's enough to tell a story without having a bunch of filler eps. If they get the back 9, I hope it's a completely different story. I don't want a storyline stretched out just because. 

[kismet]

Ray definitely looked like a Caveman in that bearded photo.

I would like to see them actually spend more time in a time period. I liked last season when they spent multiple episodes in the time periods.

[squidprincess]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

According to an interview with MG at SDCC, LoT has 13 episodes with an option of the back 9.

I kind of hope they keep at 13. I think that's enough to tell a story without having a bunch of filler eps. If they get the back 9, I hope it's a completely different story. I don't want a storyline stretched out just because. 

I agree that the back 9 should be a different story.  But I really hope it doesn't get kept at just 13 episodes.  Especially if we end up having to lose one episode to Flashpoint shenanigans and another to the Supergirl crossover.

When you have eight or nine characters, and intend to only focus on a handful in an episode, there's a real danger of some characters getting left out and dynamics getting neglected.

Look at season 1.  We had Kendra and Ray on one side, almost completely uninvolved in the Savage plot (even though Kendra had as much reason to want Savage dead as Rip did.)  We had the Rogues on another.  Firestorm at another point.  We got some unusual team ups: Mick and Ray, Sara and Kendra, but beyond that, there wasn't a lot of miscellaneous interaction.  Sara and Ray might as well be strangers.  Jax got an aborted love triangle, and Martin keeps wandering off.  The only character who's had significant interaction with every other member of the cast was Rip.  (And even his dynamic with Jax or Kendra could have used a lot more development.)

And honestly, the character development suffered a bit too.  Kendra and Ray's relationship might have been a lot more engaging if the actual development didn't take place for two years off screen.  We had very little aftermath for Sara and the League.  I'd argue that Mick, Snart  and Rip displayed the most personal growth/development throughout the season.  But Mick's Chronos arc was awfully rushed and had a lot left offscreen as well. 

The show did a good job with what they had, but I really hope they get a few more episodes so we can get some downtime and a chance to really get to see the characters as characters.

[Proteus]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

According to an interview with MG at SDCC, LoT has 13 episodes with an option of the back 9.

I kind of hope they keep at 13. I think that's enough to tell a story without having a bunch of filler eps. If they get the back 9, I hope it's a completely different story. I don't want a storyline stretched out just because. 

I don't think that'd be good for the show.

[CabotCove]

On 7/27/2016 at 5:19 AM, squidprincess said:

He plays Nathan Heywood, Citizen Steel.

OK thanks.

I got no idea who that is DC lore. Very obscure addition was hoping for Hourman as regular.

[tarotx]

14 minutes ago, WildcardC said:

OK thanks.

I got no idea who that is DC lore. Very obscure addition was hoping for Hourman as regular.

3

Wiki says:

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The third Steel made his debut in the 2007 relaunch of Justice Society of America, where he appeared for several years until the team was split into two separate groups by writers Bill Willingham and Matt Sturges, where he appeared as one of the lead characters in JSA All-Stars. In The New 52 he is shown to exist on Earth 2, under the name Captain Steel.

1

He is the version that was created by Jeff Johns. And he's a legacy character. His Grandfather Commander Steel will also be on at some point as part of the JSA. 

[FurryFury]

1 hour ago, WildcardC said:

OK thanks.

I got no idea who that is DC lore. Very obscure addition was hoping for Hourman as regular.

Patrick Adams is one of the leads on another show, and they knew it, so Hourman was never intended to be a regular.

I don't really care about how obscure a character is, I'd take Sara, a mostly original character inspired by Black Canary, over, say, Tyler Hoechlin's Superman any day.

[kismet]

Im perfectly content with how most of S1 was handled with respect to character development.  Loved that R/K happened offscreen  since it would have been painful to actually watch it. I loved the rotating team ups. Mick as Chronos was good for him, also better offscreen. Having only 13 eps made them be creative & economical, they couldnt meander and mess it all up like they do on Arrow & Flash.

If we get an additional 9 great, but I just hope the writers know how to incorporate them. They can't be fillers if TPTB tell them too late. And a whole separate mission might work, but I don't want it too disjointed from the main season.

[MarkHB]

Given the way the Big Bad is being set up as the Legion of Doom, they could take a more procedural tack and have the Legion carrying out various plots over the course of the season.  It's not like with Savage where the goal was to avert the deaths of Rip's family; the Legion may or may not have a Big Giant Master Plan that our Legends need to stop, and even if they do it doesn't necessarily need to be revealed to the heroes and us until the end of the season (instead we get lots of "I know they're up to something but I don't know what it is!" dialogue).

[CabotCove]

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If we get an additional 9 great, but I just hope the writers know how to incorporate them.

This show doesnt need more episodes Imo. I hope its still 16 episode as season 1 was, the ratings are just Ok  as it is.

With less episodes per season the show might just be able to reach syndication. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by WildcardC

[Sakura12]

Mort BTS pics.

[kismet]

Who's the guy in the black jacket?

[Sakura12]

Than's Nick Zano playing new team member Citizen Steel.

[FurryFury]

So we'll get Oliver in 2x01. Wonder why.

[tarotx]

12 hours ago, FurryFury said:

So we'll get Oliver in 2x01. Wonder why.

Nick said his first scene is on the Arrow set. And there is always a chance Sara is in Star for the Statue unveiling. 

[Sakura12]

They said Oliver is showing up as Mayor Queen. I wonder if they'll show the statue unveiling on Arrow, then on LoT show Sara was there further back watching it.  I don't think it will be a big thing, just to show us that these shows are still connected. 

[squidprincess]

Does anyone have any thoughts about that production art that looks like Ray being knighted?

Do you think they'll be heading to a somewhat vaguely accurate medieval europe?  Or maybe jettison any attempt at realism and just go full on Camelot?  Either could be fun, I'd figure.

And there are quite a few DC heroes/villains that have Camelot based origin stories (Etrigan and both Shining Knights, for example.)

[Sakura12]

There's a lot of stuff about Ray and barely anything with the other characters, which is unfortunate for me, because now that the Hawks and Savage are gone, Ray's the least interesting character. 

[squidprincess]

That doesn't mean we can't speculate about what the other characters would, presumably, be doing in these time periods.

[Sakura12]

I didn't say we couldn't. I've just seen a lot of Ray in the first episode BTS pics and promo stuff. Which worries me because I know they originally wanted to make an ATOM show and the CW turned them down. Now they can make their ATOM show with some other characters. I don't want that. 

[kismet]

I just think that the other characters stuff is perhaps too spoilery or too connected to the Flashpoint. I know TPTB say the FP won't immediately impact LoT, but I can't imagine that it won't have any effect. So the writers have to perhaps plan for that in their story outlines.

Ray's storyline is benign, so easier to reveal. They also haven't filmed as much as the other shows, so perhaps we will get more about the other characters later in the season.

[FurryFury]

Yeah I really don't think there's a chance it's going to be an ATOM show at this point. It's probably coincidence or them not wanting to reveal the other character's storylines.

And while I'm not the biggest fan of Ray, Jax is the least interesting character for me at this point, with the Hawks gone. At least BR is nice to look at, Jax is mostly just there (although he's way better than Robbie Amell's Firestorm, I'm so happy we dodged that bullet).

[Sakura12]

I like Jax, he's the teams little brother. I like that he's always happily following Sara around and they both make fun of Stein. Ray's okay, but I really hated his romance with Kendra and that took up way too much screen time. With her gone I hope they don't put him in another doomed romance. However they seem to want to play him as the romantic lead. BR while good looking does not have the charisma needed for that role.

I wonder if we'll even see the Middle Ages, instead of them just saying that was in the 6 month time jump. It would be fun if they used Game of Thrones names while they were there. 

I also wonder if the new guy is going to just be there already or did they meet him before the show comes back. 

[kismet]

I just want Jax to some how acquire the actor's native accent. I feel like him doing the American accent is somehow limiting his acting abilities. I feel like he would be far more appealing with his accent. I don't even care if they do it because of a dumb reason, like a bang on the head or side effect of time travel. 

[Sakura12]

I think he's doing okay. His acting doesn't take me out of the scene like the actor who played Savage. Acting against Victor Garber is always going to be tough for a new actor. Hopefully VG can help him improve. 

[CabotCove]

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There's a lot of stuff about Ray and barely anything with the other characters, which is unfortunate for me, because now that the Hawks and Savage are gone, Ray's the least interesting character. 

The new LoT SDCC trailer featured a lot of new Sara material and barely anything for the others. Last season featured a lot of Sara, Rip, Mick,in the forefront. I think season 2 should give other characters a chance to be explored. And no its never been confirmed by the writers that ATOM spin off was their intended project instead of LoT or any other show idea. Firestorm show was also very much an idea being thrown around at the time. I very much doubt they were going for a 3rd single lead white male character show.

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Does anyone have any thoughts about that production art that looks like Ray being knighted?

Could be Ray or just some random painting on the wall. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by WildcardC

[Sakura12]

The ATOM show was their intention that's why Ray was given such a big role in season 3 of Arrow. They hoped to spin him off into his own show. Then he wasn't well received but they still probably had Routh in contract for his own show otherwise they would not have spent all that money on him and his suit. While Routh hasn't done much after Superman. He's still the most expensive actor they have in the Flarrowverse. That's when they came up with LoT. 

It wasn't a Firestorm show, it was a Hawks show that was the next one. Which if the story we saw on LoT with them was any indication of their plans I can see why the studio passed on that one as well. 

I wasn't complaining about the lack of Sara screentime, she gets plenty and that makes me happy. They wasted Ray's storyline on a stupid doomed love triangle and he had a lot of screen time last season. So that is not focusing on the other characters. I'd rather we see more of the actual other characters, like Jax, Stein, Rip and Mick.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Sakura12

[kismet]

All indicators was that they were planning on an ATOM show until Ray Palmer failed to take off. A 3rd show based on a single white male lead is what I fully expect from TPTB. That suit was too expensive and BR's screentime too plentiful for him not to be who they planned to build a spin-off around.

When things were less than ideal for a RP-based spin-off is when they started tossing around the Hawks and Firestorm. I actually think LoT became a far better show because no one could get the individual based spin-offs they originally planned. The team dynamic is what makes LoT a better show.

I'm not worried about next season's storylines, I think they will find a balance. I hope for no dumb doomed love triangles. But overall, last year felt balanced enough for me. Everyone got a little backstory, a little action and good intra-team bonding.

[quarks]

3 hours ago, WildcardC said:

And no its never been confirmed by the writers that ATOM spin off was their intended project instead of LoT or any other show idea. Firestorm show was also very much an idea being thrown around at the time. I very much doubt they were going for a 3rd single lead white male character show.

 

That's specifically why they hired former A-lister Brandon Routh, the biggest name the CW ever snaggedup to that point, and one already associated with a DC superhero - in order to have him headline a 3rd single lead white male character show.  

This is how Hollywood works. If that hadn't been the plan, they would have gone for a much lesser known/cheaper actor - just as they are doing this year with two characters clearly not, at this point, destined for spinoffs, played by two established but hardly household name C-list actors.

Edited August 3, 2016 by quarks

[CabotCove]

Crossing over to Ray/Atom thread  http://forums.previously.tv/topic/26663-ray-palmer-the-atom/?page=2

[abhi]

 Article with Garber, Purcell and Lotz detailing how Season 2 feels different from season 1

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/garber-lotz-purcell-drop-clues-about-the-future-of-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow

[MarkHB]

56 minutes ago, abhi said:

 Article with Garber, Purcell and Lotz detailing how Season 2 feels different from season 1

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/garber-lotz-purcell-drop-clues-about-the-future-of-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow

I love that Purcell sounds like Mick in interviews.

[Sakura12]

Matthew MacCaull Cast as Commander Steel on Legends of Tomorrow

http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/08/04/matthew-maccaull-cast-as-commander-steel-on-legends-of-tomorrow/

[squidprincess]

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Purcell, however, was less thrilled about fancy dress. "Ah, fuck. I had to get in a Three Musketeers thing," he said. "Didn't like it. Next question."

This is by far the most important part of that Garber, Purcell, Lotz interview to me.  I can't wait to see what this involves.

[Sakura12]

TVline interview from Comic con.