S05.E08: Episode Eight

[ennui]

I was hoping she'd get a little fun and romance, but she got a determined declaration of intent.

I think we're supposed to perceive Kuragin as passionate. A determined declaration of "I want you" is not about long walks on the beach and feeding the poor. Let's face it, they aren't getting any younger, and time's a-wasting. However, I also have this crazy notion that "lovers" encompasses a lot of behaviors; maybe I've just seen too many 1950s films (entirely possible). I think Kuragin also said that he wants to spend the rest of his life with Violet, and again, they are older.

I am a romantic, and I hope it works out. However, I also suspect that Julian F. is aware that most viewers don't like Kuragin, and he'll be written out soon. Leaving Violet alone, again.

[helenamonster]

However, I also suspect that Julian F. is aware that most viewers don't like Kuragin, and he'll be written out soon. Leaving Violet alone, again.

 

The problem with this show (and it's not just this show, it's any show that follows this model) is that all the episodes of a season, including the CS, are written and taped before the first one makes it to air. There is literally no opportunity to alter anything based on viewer reactions until the next season.

 

That's probably why we putzed around on Gillingham and Blake for so much of S4 and S5; JF was anticipating that one or the other would be generally better received than the other. But they were both kind of dull and didn't really drum up a lot of passion, and look, they're both gone. I also feel like this contributed to Sarah Bunting...she was never great, but she wasn't as abrasive last season. However, the reaction against her was overwhelmingly negative, so I feel like JF amped up her unlikability to make it easier to write her out. This is all pure spec, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

[RedHawk]

I think Kuragin also said that he wants to spend the rest of his life with Violet.

 

 

Sure he does. He wants a nurse with a purse! I can see Violet becoming very devoted if she truly feels a revived love and accepts him into her life. I'd rather see him out mending the roads the way Moseley did when he was having trouble finding work. Or waiting tables or something. Yeah, I know he's old -- they're supposed to be 80 or older! -- but I'd prefer him to show Violet some grit and ambition to fend for himself rather than hope she'll take him in and make his life "beautiful" again. Whether it's the actor, the dialogue, or that we're supposed to be uncertain about him, I simply don't care for the guy.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RedHawk

[helenamonster]

I don't see this as a problem.  If the audience doesn't like the show's direction they stop watching and the show ends. 

 

Perhaps problem isn't the right word. Either way, the point still stands. A show that follows the typical American model (22 episodes a season from late September to early May) writes/shoots as it goes along. If they begin a storyline in the first episode of a season and it isn't well received at all, the showrunners--if they so choose--could change course by midseason. Downton can't do that. If we hate a character/storyline/whatever, too fucking bad, we have to wait until next season for there to be any chance that it gets dropped, assuming it was intended to be a longterm thing. So we can bitch and moan that something is taking too long or that a character has overstayed their welcome, but we won't see anything change according to viewer wishes within a season. That's the point I was trying to make.

[helenamonster]

Helena I don't agree at all.  It is NOT the place of the audience to control a show.  It's our job to watch or not watch. Period.   You seem to feel that the American model is better but Downton is hitting season 6 and most American shows are lucky to make 3 seasons.

 

I don't believe an audience should control a show at all. Even with the internet, there's no surefire way to tell exactly how much of the audience likes or dislikes a certain aspect. Also, I think (in general, not just with this show) sometimes people are too quick to judge story elements and end up liking them when they get a chance to play out.

 

I don't think the typical American model is better or worse than Downton's. Both have their pros and cons. I'm simply pointing out that Downton--if it was so inclined--is unable to change direction based on viewer response until a following season. This originally started in response to someone who suspected that JF knows that Kuragin isn't going over well and will be written out. If that is the case, and he does know, we won't see the results until the next season. Assuming Kuragin was meant to be more than a one-season thing, and assuming JF wanted to change direction on that particular character based on viewer reaction.

[ennui]

It is NOT the place of the audience to control a show.  It's our job to watch or not watch.

But isn't that how we viewers control a show? Is there a series producer arrogant enough to ignore the 'net? At the end of the day, these are jobs and there is money to be made.

[alias1]

Well, we are all still watching, aren't we?

[SusanSunflower]

Hard to know -- I suspect that Violet and Kuragin could have been prompted by audience "boredom" with the prior plot lines or maybe just to make better use of Maggie Smith and/or pander to the over-50 crowd - See also Isobel and Merton (though I think Clarkson is better suited tempermentally).   I think Kuragin -- more than being distasteful -- is supposed to represent just how coldly men treated women and marriage "in those days" -- particularly "Europeans" -- while Robert has not only forgiven Cora but blames himself ... oh my!!! 

Since Kuragin's wife still breathes, I think any suggestion that Violet would "run away with him" (or that Fellowes would seriously consider writing such a thing) is ridiculous -- See also Gregson's institutionalized (she doesn't even recognize me) wife. There are so many plot possibilities that are simply not conceivable with Fellowes writing the scripts in his belabored workmanlike fashion, which after all these years, is no more lively or chalk full of surprises than it ever was. Dully consistent. Imagine a battle over Gregson's estate with lawyers and courtrooms -- think Forsyte Saga!! Think Bleak House!!  or rather, don't bother. 

[photo fox]

Did you see Violet's hairdo in the scene where Prince Kuragin visited? She looked great, so Denker must have excellent hairstyling skills. I'd put up with a lot to have someone live in and make my hair look perfect every day.

You speak truth. Finding a great stylist is a total crap shoot, and once I've found one, I'll do just about anything to hold onto them. (Same for a dentist or OB/GYN.)

Donk was delightful in this episode. I was going to say he earned himself a new puppy but then he got a new granddaughter instead.

I've missed this Robert. The close-minded prig of recent seasons is probably more realistic to the times, but I preferred early Robert, anachronisms and all.

I realize this was not the intended response, but when the show cut from Anna's arrest directly to the rest of the cast sitting and listening calmly to speeches about the World War I memorial, and then showed everyone walking calmly back to the house, I started to laugh.  Way to show how worried and concerned everyone is about Anna.

This was so odd, I thought I'd gotten distracted by my phone and missed a scene, until someone (Bates?) mentioned it. It just seemed to strange to cut from her arrest to this bright sunny scene, even though obviously it was a solemn occasion. BTW, someone mentioned it in another thread, but "British Taps" (for lack of a better term) is awfully cheerful. (Pretty, though.)

Favorite moment, though, was Lady Sinderby's riposte about being able to find help, "We're Jewish, so we pay well."

That gave me life. I enjoy when people acknowledge stereotypes in this way. I find the Sinderbys (both current and future) to be really fascinating, and I'd love to see their story explored.

[Milburn Stone]

Even as bad as the writing is on this show, I could not believe my ears when Mrs. Patmore, near the beginning of the episode, said, "Well, there goes the passage of time, clanging again!" (Paraphrase--wish I could remember the exact, clunky words.) The change wrought by time has been the theme of the show, from the beginning. That's cool. That's what had the potential to make the show interesting. (If only the theme had been more deftly executed, the show might have actually been interesting.) Can Fellowes really be that insecure about whether he's putting his theme across--or that contemptuous of his audience's intelligence--that he actually has to make one of his characters say it?!??

Edited March 2, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[SusanSunflower]

Yes, I think the intrusion of "changing times" this season was pretty much limited to the King's radio broadcast, ladies' fashions, Mary's bob and maybe Mary's contraception. Mary being the least "times they are a'changing" character of them all. Mary's backward-looking sense of "propriety" is exactly why no one wants her to know about Marigold. Mary and Carson resisting "progress."  Not even a new kitchen appliance ... 

Edited March 2, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Watching Mary get her face cracked by the Cop, will never not be funny.