All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[txhorns79]

Here is my question: Bob Newhart's character is suffering from macular degeneration and we see his POV a few times showing that his sight is limited, at best.  On what planet is it a good idea to give him a new puppy for which to care?  I understand Susan's desire to keep him away from suicidal thoughts, and give him something to help with his loneliness, but really, she should have known better.  

And one episode in, and Sam's awful kid is the worst. 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Here is my question: Bob Newhart's character is suffering from macular degeneration and we see his POV a few times showing that his sight is limited, at best.  On what planet is it a good idea to give him a new puppy for which to care?  I understand Susan's desire to keep him away from suicidal thoughts, and give him something to help with his loneliness, but really, she should have known better.  

And one episode in, and Sam's awful kid is the worst. 

That didn't make much sense, even a cat would need less care but a lab "seeing eye dog" who was trained, that would make sense. That might have been a good story line.  Adorable dog but fake or not, it gave me pause to see it in my mind over his lifeless body.  : (

 

Sam's son was always bad or just an overly curious boy she brought to the ER (never saw that happen in my days at the hospital)  I always thought it was odd she ran from his dad but then let him see Alex when they met up or wrote him, very odd relationship and Alex paid a big price for the lack of any roots.

[RedbirdNelly]

The Alex relationship was always odd. Season 15 he seems to have settled down a bit and become more stable.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Sam's son was always bad or just an overly curious boy she brought to the ER (never saw that happen in my days at the hospital)

I had a lot of trouble believing he'd just be allowed to wander the ER.  Even if he was well behaved (which he wasn't), I'd imagine there would be liability and privacy concerns in play. 

I was watching the NICU episode, and while I kind of roll my eyes at the attending telling Abby that she's best student she's ever seen, it was an extremely touching moment when Abby has a small breakdown as she dresses the little baby whose surgery had just failed so his parents can hold him before he passes away.   

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I had a lot of trouble believing he'd just be allowed to wander the ER.  Even if he was well behaved (which he wasn't), I'd imagine there would be liability and privacy concerns in play. 

Exactly. I can buy her having to do it once or twice in an emergency, but all the time? And having him sit behind the desk where he could--and did--interfere in everything? I can't believe she didn't get into serious trouble for that.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Camille said:

Exactly. I can ,buy her having to do it once or twice in an emergency, but all the time? And having him sit behind the desk where he could--and did--interfere in everything? I can't believe she didn't get into serious trouble for that.

HIPPA aside, even just basic safety concerns and all that he would see. You would see him in a room staring in trauma rooms, the closest I saw to that in the hospital I worked at , was an older child with the triage person waiting a few minutes or in the waiting room. Why they needed him there was maybe to remind us she had a son or to emphasize she couldn't afford a babysitter. The liability if he got hurt would have been high. Although many are paid well now, even back then, nurses weren't paid like reception, they all had a decent salary, many had a roommate but it wasn't as dire as they make it out to be at times.Nurses make an average of 60-70,000 now but back when ER started, nurses made in the mid-40's some stats say to high 40's and docs around 100,000,(not residents) As the show was on,  it grew of course and there was a time when large bonus's were given out. especially in big cities. I can understand not being rich, but for a single nurse or having one child, not as bad some made it seem.

Edited August 3, 2018 by debraran

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

HIPPA aside, even just basic safety concerns and all that he would see. You would see him in a room staring in trauma rooms, the closest I saw to that in the hospital I worked at , was an older child with the triage person waiting a few minutes or in the waiting room. Why they needed him there was maybe to remind us she had a son or to emphasize she couldn't afford a babysitter. The liability if he got hurt would have been high. Although many are paid well now, even back then, nurses weren't paid like reception, they all had a decent salary, many had a roommate but it wasn't as dire as they make it out to be at times.Nurses make an average of 60-70,000 now but back when ER started, nurses made in the mid-40's some stats say to high 40's and docs around 100,000,(not residents) As the show was on,  it grew of course and there was a time when large bonus's were given out. especially in big cities. I can understand not being rich, but for a single nurse or having one child, not as bad some made it seem.

 

Unless Sam was deeply in debt for some reason and had outrageous bills because of it, there is no way she couldn't have afforded decent after-school care for her son.  It seemed like she and Steve never married, so she shouldn't have been responsible for his debts.  She also said that, before they came to Chicago, she did a lot of locum tenens work, which pays better than average wages.  I've known plenty of nurses who were single parents or sole support for their families over the years and a nurse like Sam with one kid would be firmly ensconced in the middle class. 

I was a working physician back in the early days of ER and now.  The show always acted like the County docs got the short end of the stick salary-wise which is absolutely untrue. Remember Mark living in Susan's tiny apartment after his divorce even though he paid no alimony and was an attending physician? Nonsense!  I actually worked for a county hospital in a large Midwestern city back in the late 80's-early 90's just before ER debuted.  I guarantee that every single attending on staff was making a low 6 figure income, even back then and that their salaries were quite competitive with docs in private practice.  I actually took a pay cut when I left the county job to start my own private practice.  And, yes, by the time the show left the air, docs like Kerry and Elizabeth and Mark; senior staff members who would have tenure and seniority; would easily clear several hundred thousand bucks a year.

Edited August 3, 2018 by doodlebug

[Dr.OO7]

16 hours ago, doodlebug said:

there is no way she couldn't have afforded decent after-school care for her son

Every hospital I worked/rotated in advertised 24/7 child care, (not necessarily in the hospital itself, but in the surrounding neighborhood) so she couldn't claim a problem with that either.

The most infuriating scene was her yelling at LUKA for allowing Alex to have ice cream, which sent him into DKA. Instead of Alex himself who was certainly old enough to know that he couldn't have it, or HERSELF for her complete failure to supervise her kid.

I loved that scene where Romano was telling her to do something and she protests, "My kid's here and I don't have a sitter!". For all his jackassery, Romano was 100% right when he angrily snapped, "And that's my problem HOW?!"

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Camille said:

Every hospital I worked/rotated in advertised 24/7 child care, (not necessarily in the hospital itself, but in the surrounding neighborhood) so she couldn't claim a problem with that either.

The most infuriating scene was her yelling at LUKA for allowing Alex to have ice cream, which sent him into DKA. Instead of Alex himself who was certainly old enough to know that he couldn't have it, or HERSELF for her complete failure to supervise her kid.

I loved that scene where Romano was telling her to do something and she protests, "My kid's here and I don't have a sitter!". For all his jackassery, Romano was 100% right when he angrily snapped, "And that's my problem HOW?!"

I know, a very immature mother, she was young when she had him, I work with someone who was 15 when she had her son, but she matured and always supported them. I never found Sam likable but that's me. Her and Abby were alike in some ways.

I remember in the 80's Yale had a daycare for mainly doctor/nurses. It was about 10.00 an hour, high then, but on premises and used by many.  I'd hear beepers go off on occasion and a doctor saying, "got to go give a quick kiss to a boo-boo and I'll be back." That idea slowly got into other business's but it was unusual then. Larger hospitals had them and I think Carol used one? She complained of cost but had a well paid father of her children not contributing, but that whole scenario was odd.

Re Romano, he was right quite a few times but delivery wasn't always on target. He hated bad parents and made a comment once when parents didn't take care of a child with disabilities, if you are a parent, you step up.

Edited August 4, 2018 by debraran

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I know, a very immature mother, she was young when she had him, I work with someone who was 15 when she had her son, but she matured and always supported them. I never found Sam likable but that's me. Her and Abby were alike in some ways.

I remember in the 80's Yale had a daycare for mainly doctor/nurses. It was about 10.00 an hour, high then, but on premises and used by many.  I'd hear beepers go off on occasion and a doctor saying, "got to go give a quick kiss to a boo-boo and I'll be back." That idea slowly got into other business's but it was unusual then. Larger hospitals had them and I think Carol used one? She complained of cost but had a well paid father of her children not contributing, but that whole scenario was odd.

Re Romano, he was right quite a few times but delivery wasn't always on target. He hated bad parents and made a comment once when parents didn't take care of a child with disabilities, if you are a parent, you step up.

 

Susan managed to swing daycare for Little Susie on a resident's salary which is probably around half to two thirds of what a staff nurse would make.  Also, Alex was in school most days and Sam would've needed just a couple of hours of after-care most days which many public schools provide at a nominal rate.

Edited August 4, 2018 by doodlebug

[txhorns79]

Quote

I remember in the 80's Yale had a daycare for mainly doctor/nurses. It was about 10.00 an hour, high then, but on premises and used by many.  I'd hear beepers go off on occasion and a doctor saying, "got to go give a quick kiss to a boo-boo and I'll be back." That idea slowly got into other business's but it was unusual then. Larger hospitals had them and I think Carol used one? She complained of cost but had a well paid father of her children not contributing, but that whole scenario was odd.

I think County had one because Benton sometimes had Reese in daycare at the hospital. 

[Dr.OO7]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

Re Romano, he was right quite a few times but delivery wasn't always on target. He hated bad parents and made a comment once when parents didn't take care of a child with disabilities, if you are a parent, you step up.

Romano was a classic example of Jerkass Has A Point. I never liked him, but I appreciated his twisted sense of honesty--you knew you couldn't trust him and if he screwed you over, he freely admitted that he did it for his own benefit. Unlike Kerry, who would basically stab you in the back, then offer to treat the stab wound, then act all hurt when you told her to go to hell, and always came up with some bullshit excuse for her behavior--"I did it for the good of the department!", "Risk management made me do it!", etc 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Camille

[debraran]

54 minutes ago, Camille said:

Romano was a classic example of Jerkass Has A Point. I never liked him, but I appreciated his twisted sense of honesty--you knew you couldn't trust ay if get screwed you over, he freely admitted that he did it for his own benefit. Unlike Kerry, who would basically stab you in the back, then offer to treat the stab wound, then act all hurt when you told her to go to hell, and always came up with some bullshit excuse for her behavior--"I did it for the good of the department!", "Risk management made me do it!", etc 

True, as he said once "So I can be a jerk. So what? I've always been honest. Brutally honest. Bruised some egos, hurt some feelings, maybe, uh, provoked a few tears, but uh -- honesty is a [heck] of a lot more than most people can claim."   I also like the cancer quote I had copied above a few posts, I never thought of it exactly that way but he's right, our bodies turn on themselves.

[txhorns79]

In Season 10, does Dr. Cooper (Glenn Howerton) just kind of vanish?  It felt like they were trying to establish him as one of the residents, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think the character just stops appearing without any explanation as to where he went. 

Also, can someone with a medical background explain to me how these med student rotations work in real life?  How is it that Abby and Neela seem to occasionally rotate to other specialties, but always end up back in the ER?  Essentially I'm asking, why isn't the ER just another rotation?  Or after you've done your rotations, do you always end up back in the specialty you want to actually work in?     

[Dr.OO7]

My medical school rotations consisted of six "core" rotations which everyone had to do regardless of what they wanted to specialize in--Psychiatry, Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, and OB/GYN. There was no particular order in which they have to be done, and the length might vary depending on the school--Internal Medicine and Surgery were three months for me, the others were six weeks, but I heard different stories from friends of mine going to other schools. These are typically done in the third year of medical school.

The fourth year is usually full of electives, depending on what the student might find interesting or want to specialize in. ER is an elective rotation. In real life, a student would do it only if they really wanted to, and it would be over and done after 4-6 weeks, not the 2 solid years we see most of the show's students do.

* Though a student on any rotation (especially the cores) might come to ER occasionally to evaluate a patient.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Camille

[slasherboy]

On 8/4/2018 at 10:46 AM, txhorns79 said:

I think County had one because Benton sometimes had Reese in daycare at the hospital. 

Little Susie stayed in the hospital day care as well.  She took her first steps there, I believe. 

Add me to those who hated the storyline of having Alex hang around the ER for hours at a time, wandering in and out of exam rooms watching traumas being dealt with.  I know if I was having my clothes cut off me and I was being treated for whatever, I certainly wouldn't want a 12 year old boy standing there staring and everything that was going on.  Of course, if it was a true trauma that wouldn't probably be the last thing on my mind, but still.  Plus, he was obnoxious.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the schedule changes ..... all day on Mondays and Tuesdays and different seasons all day on Saturday.  Now it's being replaced by "House" on Mondays, "ER" on Tuesdays, "Ghost Whisperer" on Wednesdays, "Love Boat" on Thursdays, and "Beverly Hills 90210" on Fridays.  Even though I've watched "ER" constantly since it started this whole rerun thing, what? a year-and-a-half ago? I've watched it constantly, but this makes me sad.

Nobody noticed but me?

[debraran]

I watch on Hulu (daughter lets me use her acct) I don't get POP on my cable unless I pay more.

[starri]

18 hours ago, Camille said:

Medical school rotations consist of six "core" rotations which everyone must do regardless of what they want to specialize in--Psychiatry, Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, and OB/GYN. There's no particular order in which they have to be done, and the length might vary depending on the school--Internal Medicine and Surgery were three months for me, the others were six weeks, but I heard different stories from friends of mine going to other schools. These are typically done in the third year of medical school.

I had Emergency Medicine as a core rotation third year, and a few additional ones (Critical Care, Medicine and Surgery sub-internships, and Ambulatory Medicine--subspecialties, not primary care).  Surgery, IM and FM were eight weeks, everything else was four.

[Dr.OO7]

57 minutes ago, starri said:

I had Emergency Medicine as a core rotation third year, and a few additional ones (Critical Care, Medicine and Surgery sub-internships, and Ambulatory Medicine--subspecialties, not primary care).  Surgery, IM and FM were eight weeks, everything else was four.

Really? I guess it does differ by school then. And/or it's changed since I graduated.

[txhorns79]

I felt like they had no idea what to do with Weaver's custody storyline.  During Season 10, Sandy's mother could barely acknowledge Kerry as Henry's mother.  Once Sandy died, it looks like the family has the stronger position and Kerry could end up with nothing.  Suddenly at the beginning of Season 11, the family reverses itself entirely, gives Kerry full custody and state they just want to be part of Henry's life. 

Oh and even after Abby has supported Kerry since Sandy died and tried to help her, Kerry pays her back by suggesting Abby drop County as a preference so they can game the system (and screw over a different hospital) in case Abby fails her boards again.  Stay classy Kerry.  

Also, I realize they want to keep Neela on the show, but only a huge flake, or someone with serious emotional and/or physical problems, drops out of her internship before it begins so they can run off to find themselves.   

[Dr.OO7]

3 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I felt like they had no idea what to do with Weaver's custody storyline.  During Season 10, Sandy's mother could barely acknowledge Kerry as Henry's mother.  Once Sandy died, it looks like the family has the stronger position and Kerry could end up with nothing.  Suddenly at the beginning of Season 11, the family reverses itself entirely, gives Kerry full custody and state they just want to be part of Henry's life. 

It read like a bad Lifetime movie. Homophobia aside, they actually presented a very good argument as to why they deserved custody. Their claim that they were afraid Kerry would cut them off made no sense, though I wouldn't have blamed her after the way they treated her.

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Oh and even after Abby has supported Kerry since Sandy died and tried to help her, Kerry pays her back by suggesting Abby drop County as a preference so they can game the system (and screw over a different hospital) in case Abby fails her boards again.  Stay classy Kerry.  

Yep, that's Kerry for you. Capped off by her acting  genuinely shocked/hurt/confused when Abby "hypothetically" called her out on it.

 

8 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Also, I realize they want to keep Neela on the show, but only a huge flake, or someone with serious emotional and/or physical problems, drops out of her internship before it begins so they can run off to find themselves.   

I know Status Quo Is God on shows like this, but that was almost as badly done as Pratt deciding at last second that he was going to stay at County. Never mind that he's screwing over the residency/hospital HE matched into, or the unlikelihood of County having a spot available for him at that late date. Why the hell can't they just have people end up at County from the get-go instead of some contrived "I've learned my lesson and County is where I belong!" hokum?

[txhorns79]

Quote

It read like a bad Lifetime movie. Homophobia aside, they actually presented a very good argument as to why they deserved custody. Their claim that they were afraid Kerry would cut them off made no sense, though I wouldn't have blamed her after the way they treated her.

Seriously.  Essentially, they did to her what Benton and his family did to Roger after Carla died.  I can't imagine how Kerry would ever trust them to take care of Henry again.   

Quote

I know Status Quo Is God on shows like this, but that was almost as badly done as Pratt deciding at last second that he was going to stay at County. Never mind that he's screwing over the residency/hospital HE matched into, or the unlikelihood of County having a spot available for him at that late date. Why the hell can't they just have people end up at County from the get-go instead of some contrived "I've learned my lesson and County is where I belong!" hokum?

It made no sense.  I agree there were easily ways to have Neela express doubt about her career choice without having her act like a giant flake.  And the way they got Neela back to County was ridiculous.  I would find it hard to believe that the OCD of the guy she replaced (which was to the point of him screaming in traumas as he tried to maintain his system) would not have been noticed and dealt with during his rotations as a med student.  

Edited August 6, 2018 by txhorns79

[Dr.OO7]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Essentially, they did to her what Benton and his family did to Roger after Carla died

That story ruined Benton for me. And considering that the judge handed down a custody agreement that was virtually identical to the one Roger and his lawyer offered him, his behavior was not only cruel, but utterly pointless.

[debraran]

I remember when being board certified was almost unheard of in ER Medicine. Today, they try but rural areas or hard to fill areas will let doctor's without it work. I remember in the 80's a Derm resident I knew working at various small ER's in the state for extra money and one fiance of an ophthalmology resident lamenting how he "just couldn't pass his boards" and might end up doing ER work. (they didn't end up married) Today there are a lot more board certified doctors in EM medicine but not nearly enough to staff most ER's 24 hours. They supplement with PA's, APRN's etc.  I'm glad it has more respect now than it used to be and in a way, with the public, shows like ER helped. Within the medical community I feel it is better but I still hear, comments that sound disparaging, but that is usually with older physicians.

From an article:

More and more Emergency Physicians are board-certified in Emergency Medicine, one of the specialties recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties.  Some board-certified Emergency Medicine physicians received their specialty board certification by "grandfathering in", meaning that they were in practice long before the Emergency Medicine was recognized as a specialty and before Emergency Medicine residency training was widespread.  However, since about 1992, almost all board-certified Emergency Medicine physicians have completed a residency in that specialty, usually of three to four years duration.
In order to become and remain board-certified in Emergency Medicine, a physician must complete a two-part examination (oral and written) and must continue to complete an examination in Emergency Medicine each year.  He or she must then recertify every ten years, by taking additional examinations and demonstrating competence in practice.
Some physicians working in Emergency Departments are "board-eligible" meaning that they have the qualifications to take the Board exams but have not passed those exams yet.  Other physicians working in Emergency Departments may be board-certified in other specialties, often Family Practice or Internal Medicine.  It is becoming increasingly unusual to find a physician working in an Emergency Department who does not fall into one of the these categories. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:57 PM, txhorns79 said:

In Season 10, does Dr. Cooper (Glenn Howerton) just kind of vanish?  It felt like they were trying to establish him as one of the residents, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think the character just stops appearing without any explanation as to where he went. 

    

You are correct; he just disappears. It looks as if he's going to be a real character (and Morris less so) but then just disappears. I've always wondered if it was intentionally odd writing or something happened with the actor.

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

You are correct; he just disappears. It looks as if he's going to be a real character (and Morris less so) but then just disappears. I've always wondered if it was intentionally odd writing or something happened with the actor.

I have to think it was the actor, unless there are deleted scenes out there which actually wrote the character out of the show.  

And is it just me, or is it kind of weird that Elizabeth's last scene as a regular is with she and Carter?  I never saw them as particularly close, and it doesn't really seem like he'd be one to seek her out (even if it was his patient that she went out on a limb to help).  

[debraran]

I don't remember Cooper well, but his bio has a 2 year gap of work from ER to his next TV/Movie, so maybe something did happen or it was just a period of bad luck with work.

I think ER used Carter as a base, he started and ended it, with Elizabeth, everyone was gone she was close too, Benton, Mark and Robert. I think if they didn't kill of Romano, it would have been with him.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think ER used Carter as a base, he started and ended it, with Elizabeth, everyone was gone she was close too, Benton, Mark and Robert. I think if they didn't kill of Romano, it would have been with him.

That's a good point.  If only Benton had done a cameo to say good bye, that would have been a nice scene. 

[slasherboy]

I'm confused.  Confused about how Carter learns of Greene's cancer.

I remember the two men outside playing basketball and Mark just comes right out and tells him.  Carter is shocked and asks a couple of questions about it.

But today I'm watching S8 Ep18, "Orion in the Sky", and Mark blurts out that he just finished his first chemo treatment.  Hearing him are Kerry, Mark, and Gallant.  A bit later Carter says to Susan, "I know about Mark Greene."

Would someone clear this up for me please?  It's really bugging me.

I miss having ER on my  TV every day for hours on end.  Bad POP.

[Claire85]

I think the first scene, the basketball, was in season 7 when Mark was first diagnosed. Carter was bitching about his drug testing and Mark fell over in a seizure. They had that talk afterwards.

Season 8 when his cancer came back, Susan found out first when Mark bit his tongue. Carter said, I know about Mark after he scolded Susan for staying over at Mark’s house, not knowing why at first. 

[txhorns79]

I'm confused about Jing Me's father.  He and his wife leave for China.  The last we see him, he seems fine.  They then have the car accident and he had some kind of dementia causing surgery?  The next time we see him, he can barely function.  I can imagine how a botched surgery can leave a patient with significant deficits, but I was confused exactly how it was that Jing Me's father went from totally fine to what we saw.  

[debraran]

Not much here but a little bio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing-Mei_Chen

It does say how her character in general was just written off, no updates, etc. which was unusual for being on a long time. It was like they didn't know what to do with her. I feel the assisted suicide story line was mainly because of it being more in the news and it brought another drama to the set. I feel the accident and dementia were seperate issues.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It does say how her character in general was just written off, no updates, etc. which was unusual for being on a long time. It was like they didn't know what to do with her. I feel the assisted suicide story line was mainly because of it being more in the news and it brought another drama to the set. I feel the accident and dementia were separate issues.

Her role definitely appeared to be reduced during the last half of Season 10 and the episodes she was in for Season 11.   It was kind of strange she was never mentioned again, and didn't return like many of the other characters did in Season 15.  Maybe the actress had a bad experience being on the show? 

I looked on Google, and found an EW article from 2004 where she said leaving the show was a "mutual" decision between she and the producers.  She said they had been running out of things for her character to do, and it was decided to "finish" the character.   

[RedbirdNelly]

Chen's character really had an odd start/stop quality to it. They never seemed to have a clear vision for her. I liked her friendship with Carter which developed from an initial rivalry. She also interacted well with Pratt. When she had a connection with someone, it was a believable friendship.

[doodlebug]

On 8/4/2018 at 10:25 PM, Camille said:

My medical school rotations consisted of six "core" rotations which everyone had to do regardless of what they wanted to specialize in--Psychiatry, Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, and OB/GYN. There was no particular order in which they have to be done, and the length might vary depending on the school--Internal Medicine and Surgery were three months for me, the others were six weeks, but I heard different stories from friends of mine going to other schools. These are typically done in the third year of medical school.

The fourth year is usually full of electives, depending on what the student might find interesting or want to specialize in. ER is an elective rotation. In real life, a student would do it only if they really wanted to, and it would be over and done after 4-6 weeks, not the 2 solid years we see most of the show's students do.

* Though a student on any rotation (especially the cores) might come to ER occasionally to evaluate a patient.

This is virtually identical to my medical school experience.  Everyone must do the core rotations, which in my school were Pediatrics, OB/GYN, Psychiatry, General Surgery, Internal Medicine and outpatient medicine instead of Family Practice (we could follow any number of specialties, just not in hospital, only office work).  I did a month split between ENT and ophthalmology (knowing how to look in ears and eyes is essential almost anywhere) and another doing outpatient rotations with two different internists.  Each rotation lasted two months and we often split our time between the university hospital and one of the many community hospitals to get a feel for different places.  This was the entire third year.

ER was an elective rotation in the final year.  Our entire last year was filled with electives.  Even someone who wanted a career in the ER would do no more than maybe two months total.  There is far more value in rotating through things like Radiology which allows the student to get a lot more depth of experience than trying to pick it up on the fly on an ER rotation.  It's a lot smarter to work on the specialized skills you're going to need as an ER resident than to waste a lot of time doing stuff you'll do as an ER intern anyway.  Many students opt to do a research project or work one on one with a specialist in a field they're interested in.  I never heard of anyone doing more than one or two months of electives in their chosen field; so the show takes a lot of dramatic license with real med school.  I did a month's ER rotation in a community hospital which was known for being downtown ( a knife and gun club, we called it) so there was a decent amount of trauma and where the residents and attendings were known for doing a lot of teaching and letting students participate.

Another big difference occurred over the years.  In the first couple seasons, Mark is Chief Resident and there is almost never another attending working the ER with him; he's pretty much on his own as is Benton as just a second year surgical resident.  In real life, Mark would get a lot of leeway with the minor cases while an attending would be closely supervising any major cases.  Love's Labor's Lost would've never happened because Mark would've been yanked off the case the minute she seized. Of course, Jody would've also been hauled up to OB at warp speed, so no ER doc would've touched her beyond her first few minutes after readmission.  In the later seasons, it is mostly attendings doing the work with not a lot of residents or students around because most of the main cast had finished their residency and needed to be attendings.

[doodlebug]

On 8/7/2018 at 1:34 PM, slasherboy said:

I'm confused.  Confused about how Carter learns of Greene's cancer.

I remember the two men outside playing basketball and Mark just comes right out and tells him.  Carter is shocked and asks a couple of questions about it.

But today I'm watching S8 Ep18, "Orion in the Sky", and Mark blurts out that he just finished his first chemo treatment.  Hearing him are Kerry, Mark, and Gallant.  A bit later Carter says to Susan, "I know about Mark Greene."

Would someone clear this up for me please?  It's really bugging me.

I miss having ER on my  TV every day for hours on end.  Bad POP.

What happened was that the first scene occurred when Mark was first diagnosed.  Mark had the seizure while Carter was griping about having to do all the stuff required as part of his recovery plan.  Mark later tells him why he had the seizure while they're standing on the basketball court.

At this point, Mark ends up going to New York to have the magical surgery that is supposed to possibly cure his incurable cancer.  He gets it and returns to work and is fine for a period of time.  Eventually, after he and Elizabeth separate in the wake of the baby taking Rachel's ecstasy, he starts having symptoms.  Susan notices his speech problems and is the first one he tells after getting a CT and discovering the tumor has recurred.  He doesn't tell anyone else, including Elizabeth, just signs up for chemo.  At this point, everyone would know he was going to die and he didn't want to have to deal with their reactions.  He goes for chemo, Elizabeth finds out after confronting Susan (and has a wonderful scene with Romano).  He later announces it to the group at the desk as he leaves for the day.  That's when Carter finally figures out why Susan has been spending so much time with Mark.

[doodlebug]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm confused about Jing Me's father.  He and his wife leave for China.  The last we see him, he seems fine.  They then have the car accident and he had some kind of dementia causing surgery?  The next time we see him, he can barely function.  I can imagine how a botched surgery can leave a patient with significant deficits, but I was confused exactly how it was that Jing Me's father went from totally fine to what we saw.  

We never get it clarified.  Presumably, Chen's father was already exhibiting signs of dementia before they went to China and Chen's mother was covering for him.  Then, the combination of the accident where he was severely injured and his wife died, caused him to deteriorate rapidly and Chen was forced to deal with him.  Severe life stressors can certainly accelerate the course of the disease and never underestimate the ability of a spouse to help conceal the mate's problems for as long as possible.  Chen may not have realized how much her mother was doing until she was gone.  I had an aunt who covered for her hubby for a long time.  Then, she was diagnosed with a fatal illness and died a few months later.  Her kids were absolutely stunned at how severely their father was impaired once she wasn't around to deal with him, he required nursing home placement within months of her death.

[slasherboy]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

What happened was that the first scene occurred when Mark was first diagnosed.  Mark had the seizure while Carter was griping about having to do all the stuff required as part of his recovery plan.  Mark later tells him why he had the seizure while they're standing on the basketball court.

At this point, Mark ends up going to New York to have the magical surgery that is supposed to possibly cure his incurable cancer.  He gets it and returns to work and is fine for a period of time.  Eventually, after he and Elizabeth separate in the wake of the baby taking Rachel's ecstasy, he starts having symptoms.  Susan notices his speech problems and is the first one he tells after getting a CT and discovering the tumor has recurred.  He doesn't tell anyone else, including Elizabeth, just signs up for chemo.  At this point, everyone would know he was going to die and he didn't want to have to deal with their reactions.  He goes for chemo, Elizabeth finds out after confronting Susan (and has a wonderful scene with Romano).  He later announces it to the group at the desk as he leaves for the day.  That's when Carter finally figures out why Susan has been spending so much time with Mark.

Ah, yes, now it's all coming back ... probably because you explained it to me!  Thanks, doodlebug, I appreciate the synopsis.

Am I the only one missing ER on a daily basis?  I hope they don't discontinue it altogether.

[txhorns79]

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Am I the only one missing ER on a daily basis?  I hope they don't discontinue it altogether.

I'm powering through it on Amazon Prime.  Dubenko had really awful hair, but Susan rocked a killer bob (at least part of the time) in Season 11. 

[debraran]

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6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm powering through it on Amazon Prime.  Dubenko had really awful hair, but Susan rocked a killer bob (at least part of the time) in Season 11. 

 

It's on Prime too? My daughter gave me Hulu acct so I binged big time the first few seasons.  I do enjoy seeing the flow this way and I know it adds and subtracts doing this vs watching every week or two. The hair seems to change more often (still too often in their eyes) and Mark's illness seemed faster, I had to remind myself how it played out on TV.

I just watched The Good Doctor over 2 wks and now it will seem to drag watching it in "real time" but also a treat since I watch so little television now.

[txhorns79]

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It's on Prime too?

You can buy seasons through Prime.  And yes, it's interesting how some stories that seemed to drag while the show was airing suddenly seem lighting fast when binge watching.  You can almost see how a two or three episode storyline was designed to feel longer to match the breaks the show would take for the hiatus and/or non-sweeps reruns.   

[RedbirdNelly]

I am half way through season 15 and after that will be a little lost. I've enjoyed having steady ER.

Last night I watched the last Christmas episode for ER ever. They are always good, though this was not my favorite one. It did end generally happy (besides Gates getting dumped by Sam) so that was good.

[txhorns79]

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I am half way through season 15 and after that will be a little lost. I've enjoyed having steady ER.

One thing I have noticed is they do a lot of: "Arrogant doctor dismisses and discharges a patient with a seemingly minor ailment only to have the patient return to the ER unconscious or dead from condition that arrogant doctor overlooked.  Arrogant doctor then learns valuable lesson," stories.  Within Season 11, Ray learns a valuable lesson when he promises to support a teenager's decision to consent to surgery for his father, only to abandon to then abandon the kid when his shift ends, causing the kid's mother to talk him out of the surgery.  In the same season, Pratt also learns a valuable lesson when he ignores warning signs when a young patient has a cut across his chest that is not easily explained, leading to us later find out the kid was being severely bullied after he dies from his injuries.  In fact, I think it might be Pratt's second or third valuable lesson about the dangers of being a crappy doctor.   

Edited August 10, 2018 by txhorns79

[Growsonwalls]

I just got Hulu and have been binge-watching the early episodes. My god, I was like a teenager when these episodes first aired but it's amazing how much of my memory is accurate. Like all the scenes between Doug and Carol were exactly as how I remembered them. (I remember looking every week for a Doug/Carol moment.) And in the second episode I remembered the Chinese lady whose husband was beating her. I speak Chinese and remember being so psyched that I understood what they were saying.

Here's a couple things that stand out:

1) How much humor the early seasons had. I forgot that the show was so funny. In particular I hadn't remembered that Greene and Benton (two very serious characters) were also funny.

2) George Clooney - swoon. I'm amazed he stayed with the show for five seasons. With that being said I think if the show were airing today Doug Ross's character would have to be ... changed? 

3) How weakly written Carol's character was at the beginning of the series. I know that in the pilot she was supposed to have died, but it took them awhile to know what to do with her character. Julianna Marguiles' strong acting sort of had to hold its own without much support. That and her chemistry with Doug Ross. I loved how even when he visited her after her suicide she lit up when she saw him.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[debraran]

8 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I just got Hulu and have been binge-watching the early episodes. My god, I was like a teenager when these episodes first aired but it's amazing how much of my memory is accurate. Like all the scenes between Doug and Carol were exactly as how I remembered them. (I remember looking every week for a Doug/Carol moment.) And in the second episode I remembered the Chinese lady whose husband was beating her. I speak Chinese and remember being so psyched that I understood what they were saying.

Here's a couple things that stand out:

1) How much humor the early seasons had. I forgot that the show was so funny. In particular I hadn't remembered that Greene and Benton (two very serious characters) were also funny.

2) George Clooney - swoon. I'm amazed he stayed with the show for five seasons. With that being said I think if the show were airing today Doug Ross's character would have to be ... changed? 

3) How weakly written Carol's character was at the beginning of the series. I know that in the pilot she was supposed to have died, but it took them awhile to know what to do with her character. Julianna Marguiles' strong acting sort of had to hold its own without much support. That and her chemistry with Doug Ross. I loved how even when he visited her after her suicide she lit up when she saw him.

Yes, when watching from beginning, I felt especially Carter seemed like a little boy with that baby face, which in some ways he was , very fresh and wide eyed. You get to see how he grew over the years. I felt I loved Doug and Carol more back then, now I saw how shallow Doug was although his history and past were given air time to help explain a little.  Carol was almost obsessed with him and how they had to handle his leaving, I felt didn't do much for either of them.  Doug was selfish at times, in his personal life, but he never would have left Carol with twins and not visited or sent money or something. I understand though he left the show and she signed for a year so they did what they could but faxing letters??. I just felt it didn't seem genuine. Even her leaving, which was very romantic and you can't help but smile at him seeing her, etc. was a fantasy, but that is what TV is supposed to be. ; )   I heard some patients at work talking while waiting for a late doctor and one had gotten HULU and was catching up on ER. I laughed at her describing Doug at the boat and her friend was like, "That was so romantic" and she said, "For real?? You know in real life, he would have a lady waiting to go with him, might have not loved her, but he wouldn't have been alone in that big house". Probably true but ER ended it the best way for fans, and it was nice although I wished for more contact later, even a Xmas card with twins pictures or a card for Green saying why they couldn't come.

I don't think Doug's character itself would be changed today but Romano and others would have to be less sexist. I still see this stuff at work but it's much less tolerated.

[txhorns79]

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2) George Clooney - swoon. I'm amazed he stayed with the show for five seasons.

My understanding is that with most of these shows, the actors sign five year contracts when the show starts, the contracts are difficult to break, and it is at the producer's discretion as to whether to let them out of the contract early.  And since Clooney was so popular, I'm guessing he didn't have much choice but to stay for most of the duration of his contract, particularly after Sherry Stringfield left in the third season.    

And this is something that I have been curious about: Was there originally a different intention for how they were going to handle the character of Amanda Lee?  The storyline ends so weirdly, and kind of abruptly, that I had wondered if that was really the plan all along for that character.     

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

My understanding is that with most of these shows, the actors sign five year contracts when the show starts, the contracts are difficult to break, and it is at the producer's discretion as to whether to let them out of the contract early.  And since Clooney was so popular, I'm guessing he didn't have much choice but to stay for most of the duration of his contract, particularly after Sherry Stringfield left in the third season.    

And this is something that I have been curious about: Was there originally a different intention for how they were going to handle the character of Amanda Lee?  The storyline ends so weirdly, and kind of abruptly, that I had wondered if that was really the plan all along for that character.     

At the time, multiple other actors had gotten out of contracts to pursue movie careers and Clooney probably could've done it.  However, from the very start, he said he had signed a contract and intended to live up to it and would not attempt to break it.  He also told the producers from the very beginning (like by Season 2), that he was not interested in signing a contract extension at any price.  He was offered a ton of money, but stuck to his guns throughout his tenure on ER.  Which, of course, begs the question as to why the writers did such a lousy job of writing him off the show when they had severe years to plan it.  Clooney is known in Hollywood as being a stand-up guy with a lot of integrity.

[Growsonwalls]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

 I felt I loved Doug and Carol more back then, now I saw how shallow Doug was although his history and past were given air time to help explain a little.  Carol was almost obsessed with him and how they had to handle his leaving, I felt didn't do much for either of them.  Doug was selfish at times, in his personal life, but he never would have left Carol with twins and not visited or sent money or something. I understand though he left the show and she signed for a year so they did what they could but faxing letters??. I just felt it didn't seem genuine. Even her leaving, which was very romantic and you can't help but smile at him seeing her, etc. was a fantasy, but that is what TV is supposed to be. ; )   I heard some patients at work talking while waiting for a late doctor and one had gotten HULU and was catching up on ER. I laughed at her describing Doug at the boat and her friend was like, "That was so romantic" and she said, "For real?? You know in real life, he would have a lady waiting to go with him, might have not loved her, but he wouldn't have been alone in that big house". Probably true but ER ended it the best way for fans, and it was nice although I wished for more contact later, even a Xmas card with twins pictures or a card for Green saying why they couldn't come.

I don't think Doug's character itself would be changed today but Romano and others would have to be less sexist. I still see this stuff at work but it's much less tolerated.

Well I think that behind the scenes Julianna Marguiles was contemplating returning for a seventh season which is why the whole Carol storyline was so awkward after Doug left. When she ultimately decided not to return they were able to proceed with the happily-ever-after ending which still gives me the feel-goods. 

As for Doug/Carol, loved them then, loved them now. I felt like they shoehorned Tag and Shep as distraction romances for Carol but the way Julianna Marguiles acted the role ... Carol's love/obsession for Doug was evident in every scene. And maybe it's not very healthy but ... hey, it's George Clooney.

As for George Clooney, one thing I've always respected about him is that even after he became this huge multimillion dollar movie star he never pooh-poohed his TV days or ER experience. 

A few other thoughts from binge-watching:

- I loved Jerry, Malik, Helen, Lydia weren't "hot" at all but looked very much like how attendants/nurses in a busy city ER might look.

- Sherry Stringfield really made a mistake in jumping from ER so early. When she returned years later the show was not the same. Susan's humor and warmth were much-needed and I loved her role as Mark's office-wife.

- Man, you really have to go to the early seasons to see a likable Mark. The character later on became an instant 'fridge-break' moment for me. But in the early seasons Mark was actually ... fun?

[txhorns79]

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- Sherry Stringfield really made a mistake in jumping from ER so early. When she returned years later the show was not the same. Susan's humor and warmth were much-needed and I loved her role as Mark's office-wife.

After Susan left the second time, I felt like the show was very much lacking in grown ups.  The only person left who felt like an actual grown up was Weaver (even when she had her bad moments, she still seemed like an adult).  The others sometimes felt like overgrown children who never matured past high school.

Though I did love Ray pulling a George Costanza and returning to work after he quit his job.   Weaver seeming truly puzzled about whether to buy Ray's bs about never having actually quit.     

Edited August 16, 2018 by txhorns79

[Dr.OO7]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Was there originally a different intention for how they were going to handle the character of Amanda Lee?  The storyline ends so weirdly, and kind of abruptly, that I had wondered if that was really the plan all along for that character.  

I have no idea, but that was absolutely the worst storyline of an already godawful season.

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Which, of course, begs the question as to why the writers did such a lousy job of writing him off the show when they had severe years to plan

The second worst story of that godawful season.

7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

As for Doug/Carol, loved them then, loved them now. I felt like they shoehorned Tag and Shep as distraction romances for Carol but the way Julianna Marguiles acted the role ... Carol's love/obsession for Doug was evident in every scene

I agree with nearly everything here, but I never felt her feelings went so far as obsession, per se. But I remember tearing up during that scene in "The Storm, 2", when she tells Mark, "I can't remember a time when I didn't love him."