All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Cloud9Shopper]

Only had time for one episode tonight, 8x12. 

I can’t decide if Abby is too involved with this issue with her neighbor or not. (Disclaimer: I know nothing about how one should handle domestic violence and I am sure nurses have a mandatory reporting duty in this situation.) I do think she should not be treating Joyce given how close she is to the situation and what eventually happens to her. But again, I’m not an expert and I’m not sure what I would do. So, take me with a grain of salt.

Lines you never thought would hold up in 2023, courtesy of Romano: “Ladies, if I wanted to see a good catfight, I’d watch The View!” 

I really do not like Chen in this episode. Maybe it’s the circa 1993 hair and matronly outfit that isn’t doing her any favors and annoying me more (and why is there so much bad hair in S8? This is driving me crazy), but she is being the worst here. She is the one who quit and then thinks she can just prance back in and tell Kerry that she won’t report to her (who else is in the ER to report to? I mean, Mark, I guess but it just seems unrealistic to tell your boss you won’t take orders from her) and what kind of shifts she wants? Her entitlement is so wild I wish she had stayed gone.

I kind of thought on my first watch of this episode that they were setting Carter’s mother up to be an alcoholic. Could have been an interesting plotline. Surely better than Chen coming back after quitting and wanting to act like she was so innocent or Abby’s personal drama of the week. 

I think Sandy ends up being Kerry’s best relationship but Sandy should not have done what she did at work. Or at all. She knew Kerry wasn’t out at work, and if she were a truly good partner at the time, she would have respected that or not tried to be with Kerry if she saw it as such a dealbreaker. I forget what makes Kerry forgive her or when this is addressed again, so I’ll keep watching and see if my opinion changes. 

 

[Olis93]

20 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I can’t watch the actual attack scene either. Last time I watched that episode, I just put my head down (or may have went to get a drink) when he was getting beat up. Wonder if a stunt double was used for Anthony Edwards or if he did the work himself. 

Mark's beating in the bathroom was probably the most brutal and graphic of all the assaults shown in the series. The way it comes in two waves with the attacker leaving then coming back and viciously assaulting him some more, with Mark having no way of recovering or fighting back is very hard to watch.

Plus the fact that his attacker just got away with it and there was never any real justice for him makes it that much more frustrating.  

Edited December 6, 2023 by Olis93

[GiandujaPie]

Just watched the Season 13 season finale and what a mess it was. The only good part was when Katie called Neela a bitch and said that Ray's predicament was her fault. Neela's complete lack of self-awareness is infuriating to watch. There was some satisfaction in seeing her get trampled at the anti-war protest, but why was she even there? And why did Gates follow her there? Ridiculous that in the crowd he was even able to spot her. 

And then of course we got to the season 14 premiere and again it was all about Neela. The way so many other patients in the ER got neglected because everybody was so f-ing concerned about her. Grrr...and Gates should have been fired for what he did to the suspected bomber, not just banished to the ICU. He should have been arrested too. 

Watching the entire run of the show in order, you can really see the decline of the show. At this point in the original run, I had also stopped watching regularly and so many of these episodes I've never seen. I know they were competing with Gray's Anatomy at this point, but the personal and romantic drama just doesn't work when it appears to be the main focus and the characters are annoying. Neela is annoying and not a romantic lead, same goes for Abby and Sam...not one of them is as appealing as the show makes them out to be. And the men really aren't any better. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

S14 is pretty much the worst part of the show unless you are a huge Abby fan and/or Abby and Luka are one of your favorite couples. If not, then good luck. 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Watching the entire run of the show in order, you can really see the decline of the show. At this point in the original run, I had also stopped watching regularly and so many of these episodes I've never seen. I know they were competing with Gray's Anatomy at this point, but the personal and romantic drama just doesn't work when it appears to be the main focus and the characters are annoying. Neela is annoying and not a romantic lead, same goes for Abby and Sam...not one of them is as appealing as the show makes them out to be. And the men really aren't any better. 

Yes, watching it again on Hulu few years ago, I missed a lot because after what they did to Romano, I signed off. I would watch the "Clooney is back" episodes or Mark's ghost so to speak but it was hard. I am glad it ended the way it did with Carter but I felt with him, it was left with a ?  Does he find happiness? There were some gems thrown in the last few years but much less than the first 6. Still in my eyes, the number one show for medical and seeing the reunion with them on youtube 2 years ago was fun.

Edited December 6, 2023 by debraran

[Olis93]

Seasons 12-14 were the nadir of the series IMO.

On my first watch through I had to quit watching midway through season 13 as I was just so bored and burnt out by the show by that point. When I decided to go back and finish I could barely get through it.

Season 15 was a slight step up in quality but only because we got the originals back for some episodes.

I maintain the show should have ended when Carter left at the end of season 11. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

17 minutes ago, Olis93 said:

Seasons 12-14 were the nadir of the series IMO.

On my first watch through I had to quit watching midway through season 13 as I was just so bored and burnt out by the show by that point. When I decided to go back and finish I could barely get through it.

Season 15 was a slight step up in quality but only because we got the originals back for some episodes.

I maintain the show should have ended when Carter left at the end of season 11. 

I agree with all of this. Carter’s departure is my alternative series finale. 

I am halfway through S8 now and aside from Mark’s final episodes coming up, so far not one episode in this season has made me think “that was really good!” There are some well done moments, like Sobriki coming back, but now I feel like the show seemed to be on the way out/declining even before Mark’s death. I don’t know how they kept it going for seven more years. 

I probably won’t really watch Seasons 12-14 this time outside of a few episodes. Abby being such a focus doesn’t help, but there’s not really anyone around or any stories worth caring about in the few moments she’s not hogging the screen. And I’m still bitter that Jeanie and Reggie were broken up in S14. The writers could have just let them still be married and made up some reason about why Reggie couldn’t be there but Jeanie had to call him, etc. 

[RedbirdNelly]

any time I see a character on any show bending down to wash their hands with no one else in the bathroom, I think of Mark and get nervous for them. I can't rewatch the beating scene either.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Watched the episode tonight where Ella’s OD happens. God, it bears repeating how much I hate Rachel in this storyline and I have never blamed Elizabeth for wanting her out of the house. I don’t think Rachel wanted to hurt Ella or nearly kill her, but she should have had enough common sense even at her age to not leave ecstasy laying around where Ella could grab it. Or you know, not bring it into the house at all? And it’s not as if Elizabeth told her to go fend herself on the streets of Chicago and sleep outside. She could go back to St. Louis and be Jen’s problem again. 

I am so over this Chen and Kerry petty feud. And Chen’s stupid updo with her bangs. I did kind of laugh though when Chen was bemoaning to Carter that she wore the wrong shoes. Yeah, why would you wear heels or whatever she was wearing to a shift in the ER? Makes no sense. 

The plot with Abby’s neighbor only took up one scene at the end. I thought for some reason it got more airtime in this episode but I’m guessing that’s the next one (A Simple Twist of Fate). Truthfully, though, I’m thinking of skipping that one. I don’t know that I really need to see it again and I’m not mentally up for it. I feel like Abby in wanting to help doesn’t use a whole lot of discretion with this issue either. I mean, she is Joyce and Brian’s neighbor so she’s involving herself at home (Brian knows where Joyce is almost immediately), she’s all over the case at work…she doesn’t really ever back off and call in an actual professional besides Adele. We have seen other DV plots on this show where doctors can get the women out of the situation safely and without making it so blatant. I really think Adele or another counselor or even Kerry/some other doctor who isn’t also Joyce’s neighbor should have been more hands on. Is it even realistic for a nurse to handle this basically by themselves and run Joyce’s case with virtually no input from any other professional in this situation? 

And unpopular opinion but I don’t think the whole “Luka punches people because Abby is his one and only” theme is that heroic or satisfying. There can be a way to get this guy locked up and away from his wife and Abby in a way that doesn’t involve Luka hunting him down and punching him. He can’t care about her that much if what he did caused her court case to get thrown out.  

Edited December 8, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Olis93]

9 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Watched the episode tonight where Ella’s OD happens. God, it bears repeating how much I hate Rachel in this storyline and I have never blamed Elizabeth for wanting her out of the house. I don’t think Rachel wanted to hurt Ella or nearly kill her, but she should have had enough common sense even at her age to not leave ecstasy laying around where Ella could grab it. Or you know, not bring it into the house at all? And it’s not as if Elizabeth told her to go fend herself on the streets of Chicago and sleep outside. She could go back to St. Louis and be Jen’s problem again. 

I am so over this Chen and Kerry petty feud. And Chen’s stupid updo with her bangs. I did kind of laugh though when Chen was bemoaning to Carter that she wore the wrong shoes. Yeah, why would you wear heels or whatever she was wearing to a shift in the ER? Makes no sense. 

The plot with Abby’s neighbor only took up one scene at the end. I thought for some reason it got more airtime in this episode but I’m guessing that’s the next one (A Simple Twist of Fate). Truthfully, though, I’m thinking of skipping that one. I don’t know that I really need to see it again and I’m not mentally up for it. I feel like Abby in wanting to help doesn’t use a whole lot of discretion with this issue either. I mean, she is Joyce and Brian’s neighbor so she’s involving herself at home (Brian knows where Joyce is almost immediately), she’s all over the case at work…she doesn’t really ever back off and call in an actual professional besides Adele. We have seen other DV plots on this show where doctors can get the women out of the situation safely and without making it so blatant. I really think Adele or another counselor or even Kerry/some other doctor who isn’t also Joyce’s neighbor should have been more hands on. Is it even realistic for a nurse to handle this basically by themselves and run Joyce’s case with virtually no input from any other professional in this situation? 

And unpopular opinion but I don’t think the whole “Luka punches people because Abby is his one and only” theme is that heroic or satisfying. There can be a way to get this guy locked up and away from his wife and Abby in a way that doesn’t involve Luka hunting him down and punching him. He can’t care about her that much if what he did caused her court case to get thrown out.  

The domestic violence storyline from season 8 is one of my least favorites arcs in the whole series. One of many plots from that season that are entirely disposable and ultimately led nowhere. It seems like it was just another vehicle to give Abby more personal drama (one of too many to count lol).    

In earlier seasons a plot like that would have been handled mostly in the ER and all the drama with Abby would have been avoided. While I do like Abby, I did not like how all her misery and drama started taking over the show in later seasons. 

I don't sympathize with Brian assaulting Abby but I also don't see Luka as being much better for beating him up later on. Ironically, it just led to him avoiding jail time and making things much worse for Abby, forcing her to live with Luka (no doubt setting up the Abby/Luka/Carter triangle later into the season). A really frustrating storyline that ended abruptly and one I think the show would be much better off without. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I also think Abby was probably somewhat involved with Luka hunting that guy down and only pretended to be oblivious when comforted about it by the lawyer. Luka had just been gone for two months and had only seen Brian and Joyce one time, and all of a sudden he knows exactly what bar to go to (out of all the bars in Chicago) and beat the guy up? 

And Abby was drinking that night too. Again, I feel like it just goes to show why she relapsed so badly in S14. She has no judgment skills whatsoever and her casual attitude towards recovery always seems to put her in situations she could avoid if she would just get it together and actually work on her program. It frustrates me that she treats being sober like something she can just do whenever she feels like it rather than making it a lifelong process. 

[Notabug]

39 minutes ago, Olis93 said:

The domestic violence storyline from season 8 is one of my least favorites arcs in the whole series. One of many plots from that season that are entirely disposable and ultimately led nowhere. It seems like it was just another vehicle to give Abby more personal drama (one of too many to count lol).    

In earlier seasons a plot like that would have been handled mostly in the ER and all the drama with Abby would have been avoided. While I do like Abby, I did not like how all her misery and drama started taking over the show in later seasons. 

I don't sympathize with Brian assaulting Abby but I also don't see Luka as being much better for beating him up later on. Ironically, it just led to him avoiding jail time and making things much worse for Abby, forcing her to live with Luka (no doubt setting up the Abby/Luka/Carter triangle later into the season). A really frustrating storyline that ended abruptly and one I think the show would be much better off without. 

The DV storyline was just one of the many, many examples of Abby insisting she knew best and refusing to allow those with more experience and less emotional involvement take the lead and handle things.  It happens again and again on the show; Abby insists on doing things her way and f***s up royally.  And, yet, all her coworkers continually praise her as the best ever.

[txhorns79]

Uh, I'm in Season 5.  There are these moments where I feel a little sorry for Kerry, then she acts vindictive and I'm right back to disliking her.  I can understand her frustration with Doug, particularly after his Season 4 stunt of detoxing the baby without consent.  She's entirely right that he was seriously reckless and he really has no place working in the ER.  I can even feel her legitimate anger when Doug essentially outmaneuvers her and charms his way out of what should be be a firing offense.  Then she goes ahead and writes a review months later to try and sabotage Doug becoming an attending, and it just feels like she is back to being petty.

I also really dislike Lucy and Carter.  She's annoying and he's a terrible teacher.  Benton, out of all people, has to tell Carter that it is expected that Lucy is going to screw up and ask lots of questions, because she's a med student!  

And can someone tell me if it is normal for med students to live in dorms with RAs?  I feel like even if there are dorms, it feels like everyone is a little too old for that arrangement.      

[Cloud9Shopper]

Lucy definitely annoyed me more this time around, and if not for Be Still My Heart/All in the Family I don’t think she would be so popular among fans. (Unless she was popular in the original airing before those episodes, so in which case, ignore that thought. I didn’t start watching the original run until S6.)

Carter was right about a couple of things, though, like her being so reliant on that computer/Palm Pilot thing and telling her the next time she lied about knowing how to do something, she could look for another rotation. Lucy’s whining about him into the recorder on the Palm Pilot and him finding out was like the 1998 equivalent of complaining about your job publicly on Facebook and being fired for it, even though she didn’t get disciplined for that. IMO, she was no prize either. Not as insufferable as Abby but not as much of a helpless victim of Carter as she’s made out to be. 

And I have never been to grad school but from my limited knowledge most grad students live off-campus. 

[Notabug]

5 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Lucy definitely annoyed me more this time around, and if not for Be Still My Heart/All in the Family I don’t think she would be so popular among fans. (Unless she was popular in the original airing before those episodes, so in which case, ignore that thought. I didn’t start watching the original run until S6.)

Carter was right about a couple of things, though, like her being so reliant on that computer/Palm Pilot thing and telling her the next time she lied about knowing how to do something, she could look for another rotation. Lucy’s whining about him into the recorder on the Palm Pilot and him finding out was like the 1998 equivalent of complaining about your job publicly on Facebook and being fired for it, even though she didn’t get disciplined for that. IMO, she was no prize either. Not as insufferable as Abby but not as much of a helpless victim of Carter as she’s made out to be. 

And I have never been to grad school but from my limited knowledge most grad students live off-campus. 

I don't know much about grad school, either, but I do know that most larger universities, especially those in a city where housing can be expensive, often have a dorm set aside for graduate and professional school students.

Not to worry, Lucy never caught on with the fans.  Aside from the fact that Carter was well established and beloved at that point, her relationship with him was so annoying that the character never caught on.  The best thing to happen to Lucy's character was the stabbing.  It made her more relatable and her scenes in those couple episodes really humanized her.  Lucy was most popular after being gruesomely murdered, it is easy to see why she was written out.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Notabug said:

The best thing to happen to Lucy's character was the stabbing.  It made her more relatable and her scenes in those couple episodes really humanized her.  Lucy was most popular after being gruesomely murdered, it is easy to see why she was written out.

Yep.  On top of the character being annoying (just because Carter was, shall we say, not at his best with her doesn't mean she also didn't have bad traits), she's played by an actor that drives me batty in everything I've sat through her in.  Yet I feel for Lucy as much as I would anyone else in those episodes.  (I think I also liked her with the heart transplant patient, and how she caught Romano's attention - and rare respect - through that, but I have nowhere near as clear memories of that.)  They brought her in for this weird Carter/his student thing that was, thankfully, never actually going to develop, so there wound up being no point to her because she was not a compelling character on her own.  Killing her off as they did made terrific use of her, and left her far more fondly remembered than if she'd simply finished and moved on.

7 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

And I have never been to grad school but from my limited knowledge most grad students live off-campus. 

That's true in my experience, but also true that the big schools generally do offer university housing, which some opt for.

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Lucy’s whining about him into the recorder on the Palm Pilot and him finding out was like the 1998 equivalent of complaining about your job publicly on Facebook and being fired for it, even though she didn’t get disciplined for that.

I was with Lucy.  It wasn't meant for Carter's ears and it wasn't like she lent the Palmtop to him.  She lent it to Yosh and Carter took it from him.   He really shouldn't be holding something against her that he wasn't meant to hear.  They were just kind of toxic together.  Carter wasn't a good teacher, and the personality clashes just made things worse. 

[WendyCR72]

I will agree that Carter was not a good teacher in any way.

At the same time, however, it is probably difficult to teach a student that also thinks they know more than they do - and outright lies about it (as Lucy had done on one occasion).

So, both were annoying in their storyline together, and I wasn't sad to see the back of Lucy Knight.

And I will forever side with Noah Wyle as far as trying to pair Lucy and Carter.

Students dating their teachers is never a good look, and after deftly handing Carter's very early S1 crush on Susan Lewis (when he tried to kiss her at Christmas; S8 - whether it worked or not - seemed different because they were on more equal footing professionally!), it disappointed me that the writers for Lucy/Carter thought romance would be suddenly A-OK, as a teacher has influence/power over said students. Just no all around.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

will agree that Carter was not a good teacher in any way.

What is really weird was that Carter seemed to use Benton as his role model when it comes to teaching (hard ass figure it out yourself, no praise) when he could have copied more of a Mark or Susan style (which he had been exposed to). The Benton style only worked because Carter was an exceptionally good student who would work hard and figure things out himself, but it also may have contributed to another student killing himself. Lucy seemed like a much more average student (at least for the hands on part of med school training, she could have been really good at the classroom part I can't remember).

Edited December 10, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What is really weird was that Carter seemed to use Benton as his role model when it comes to teaching (hard ass figure it out yourself, no praise) when he could have copied more of a Mark or Susan style (which he had been exposed to).

Especially Susan; back in the beginning, she was the one who made sure he learned something other than Peter's dirty work.  He wasn't her student, but we saw her walk him through something new quite a few times.  Between her instincts as a teacher and her demeanor with patients, I found her the best doctor the ER had in her first go-round.

[Notabug]

16 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Especially Susan; back in the beginning, she was the one who made sure he learned something other than Peter's dirty work.  He wasn't her student, but we saw her walk him through something new quite a few times.  Between her instincts as a teacher and her demeanor with patients, I found her the best doctor the ER had in her first go-round.

Susan really was a great doc in her original form, and, unlike the rest of the staff, Susan managed to stay on a pretty even keel on the job even when her personal life was a mess.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Susan really was a great doc in her original form, and, unlike the rest of the staff, Susan managed to stay on a pretty even keel on the job even when her personal life was a mess.  

I was about to say something similar. She was really one of the few adults on the show as far as her maturity and ability to keep her personal life separate from work. And even when she came back in S9, she had a very satisfying moment when she lectured Luka on how gross and unprofessional it was of him to be banging that patient’s mother while he was on the clock. 

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

Susan really was a great doc in her original form, and, unlike the rest of the staff, Susan managed to stay on a pretty even keel on the job even when her personal life was a mess.  

Except when Kerry Weaver was on her back. I have been rewatching the early seasons, and Weaver was really a bitch to Susan -- nitpicking and constantly criticizing, as opposed to constructive criticism. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Heathen

[Olis93]

Susan was my favorite female character on the show and I enjoyed her during both of her runs. She was smart, capable, a fantastic ER doctor and didn't let her emotions get the best of her when dealing with patients. 

It helps that she wasn't as bogged down by personal drama as other characters. Even the stuff with Chloe never got to be too much. 

[txhorns79]

28 minutes ago, Olis93 said:

She was smart, capable, a fantastic ER doctor and didn't let her emotions get the best of her when dealing with patients. 

One thing I really liked during the first season was we saw Susan grow as a doctor.  I thought it was true earlier in the season where it was pointed out Susan had difficulty asserting herself.  She actually learned from that and began better advocating for her patients.  It was nice. 

I'm in Season 5.  I'll never understand the point of Amanda Lee.  I have to think something else was planned and it just got thrown in the trash at the last minute.  None of it makes much sense.  It never made a lot of sense to me that someone who faked her way through a residency program and apparently had very real achievements as a fake doctor would fall apart so quickly.

I also kind of hate Doug's exit from the show.  He's been shown to be reckless, but this was just too much.  Also, I get the isolation that can be caused by having a chronically ill child who needs constant care, but the idea that the kid was dying and Joi only had supercouple Doug and Carol to serve as support is just silly.    

Also, tae bo!  Hee!     

[Cloud9Shopper]

42 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm in Season 5.  I'll never understand the point of Amanda Lee.  I have to think something else was planned and it just got thrown in the trash at the last minute.  None of it makes much sense.  It never made a lot of sense to me that someone who faked her way through a residency program and apparently had very real achievements as a fake doctor would fall apart so quickly.

I also kind of hate Doug's exit from the show.  He's been shown to be reckless, but this was just too much.  Also, I get the isolation that can be caused by having a chronically ill child who needs constant care, but the idea that the kid was dying and Joi only had supercouple Doug and Carol to serve as support is just silly.    

Also, tae bo!  Hee!     

The Amanda Lee arc really showed that the ER universe has a weird aversion to background checks and ignoring red flags when it comes to hiring. I get that it was the 90s but they didn’t do any kind of reference check or whatever database research was around then? In S10, Kerry makes a reference to Sam being hired even though her last workplace seemed to hint she was difficult.Then in S12 there were all these issues with Clemente that no one had looked into before hiring him and he went off the deep end, and in late S14 and early S15, all these top hospitals are eager to give Abby prestigious job offers and Anspaugh wants to interview her to be an attending after she practically demands Pratt help her, even though she was drunk at work less than six months earlier. (And no one saw that as a red flag or wanted to rescind her offer? OK sure.) I realize sometimes employers make hiring mistakes and they did say Amanda Lee fooled everyone but it’s such BS.

I didn’t like Doug much this go-round either especially since what he did caused the closure of Carol’s clinic and she was so furious at him. The first time I rewatched this arc in 2018 or 2019 I found myself wondering how she could still be head over heels for him after that, when he tanked something she worked so hard for. I felt like she definitely deserved better at the time. It makes a little more sense in this watch why she wants to be with him so desperately and I do kind of like them as a couple now but sometimes I find their love for each other to not make much sense. 

And oh. I remember doing a Tae Bo video back when I was in college, and before that, seeing the infomercials and being fascinated by how much fun it looked. Alas I am not coordinated enough for kickboxing. 

[Notabug]

6 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

The Amanda Lee arc really showed that the ER universe has a weird aversion to background checks and ignoring red flags when it comes to hiring. I get that it was the 90s but they didn’t do any kind of reference check or whatever database research was around then? In S10, Kerry makes a reference to Sam being hired even though her last workplace seemed to hint she was difficult.Then in S12 there were all these issues with Clemente that no one had looked into before hiring him and he went off the deep end, and in late S14 and early S15, all these top hospitals are eager to give Abby prestigious job offers and Anspaugh wants to interview her to be an attending after she practically demands Pratt help her, even though she was drunk at work less than six months earlier. (And no one saw that as a red flag or wanted to rescind her offer? OK sure.) I realize sometimes employers make hiring mistakes and they did say Amanda Lee fooled everyone but it’s such BS.

I didn’t like Doug much this go-round either especially since what he did caused the closure of Carol’s clinic and she was so furious at him. The first time I rewatched this arc in 2018 or 2019 I found myself wondering how she could still be head over heels for him after that, when he tanked something she worked so hard for. I felt like she definitely deserved better at the time. It makes a little more sense in this watch why she wants to be with him so desperately and I do kind of like them as a couple now but sometimes I find their love for each other to not make much sense. 

And oh. I remember doing a Tae Bo video back when I was in college, and before that, seeing the infomercials and being fascinated by how much fun it looked. Alas I am not coordinated enough for kickboxing. 

Clooney's exit was just totally botched.  They spent years showing Doug mature and get counseling and generally change his ways only to throw it all out the window for a stupid storyline.  Clooney made it clear from the start that he was leaving when his contract was ended, that he wouldn't sign another one.  They knew for years that the character was going to be written out at the end of Season 5, that they did such a terrible job of it really bugs.  Part of the problem was that, despite knowing Clooney was going, they signed JM for a single season beyond that.  Dumb.  There were a lot of things they could've done, but, having Doug move across the country when Carol was pregnant with his kids made no sense at all.  And Carol, sending Doug a fax at work to let him know she was knocked up?  The writing in Season 5 was terrible, especially considering how the original cast was still there and they'd done such a good job of introducing the characters and making the audience care about them and root for them.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

The Amanda Lee arc really showed that the ER universe has a weird aversion to background checks and ignoring red flags when it comes to hiring. I get that it was the 90s but they didn’t do any kind of reference check or whatever database research was around then?

In fairness to them, they do suggest Amanda had very real references and she had a career as a physician for some time before coming to County.  I can understand for someone in that position, they would be long past reviewing medical school credentials and transcripts.  That was why it would be surprising to me she would fall apart at County so quickly.  A grifter at her level is likely to be pretty good at maintaining her grift.  

 

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I didn’t like Doug much this go-round either especially since what he did caused the closure of Carol’s clinic and she was so furious at him.

He betrayed Carol in the worst way, and also Mark.  I just have trouble believing he would act like that, even for a patient.  It was all very dumb.   

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

Clooney's exit was just totally botched.  They spent years showing Doug mature and get counseling and generally change his ways only to throw it all out the window for a stupid storyline.  Clooney made it clear from the start that he was leaving when his contract was ended, that he wouldn't sign another one.  They knew for years that the character was going to be written out at the end of Season 5, that they did such a terrible job of it really bugs.  Part of the problem was that, despite knowing Clooney was going, they signed JM for a single season beyond that.  Dumb.  There were a lot of things they could've done, but, having Doug move across the country when Carol was pregnant with his kids made no sense at all.  And Carol, sending Doug a fax at work to let him know she was knocked up?  The writing in Season 5 was terrible, especially considering how the original cast was still there and they'd done such a good job of introducing the characters and making the audience care about them and root for them.

Seriously. The writers should have had a season-long "Doug is moving to X city to start a pediatric ER, Carol will follow him as soon as she sells the house, but oops, that takes a year and now she's pregnant" storyline. They could have had the ER-classic mass casualty incident on his last day, with everyone, especially Weaver, realizing how valuable he is to County. Not the character assassination bullshit they chose instead. 

[Acmeproducts]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:50 AM, txhorns79 said:

Uh, I'm in Season 5.  There are these moments where I feel a little sorry for Kerry, then she acts vindictive and I'm right back to disliking her.  I can understand her frustration with Doug, particularly after his Season 4 stunt of detoxing the baby without consent.  She's entirely right that he was seriously reckless and he really has no place working in the ER.  I can even feel her legitimate anger when Doug essentially outmaneuvers her and charms his way out of what should be be a firing offense.  Then she goes ahead and writes a review months later to try and sabotage Doug becoming an attending, and it just feels like she is back to being petty.

I also really dislike Lucy and Carter.  She's annoying and he's a terrible teacher.  Benton, out of all people, has to tell Carter that it is expected that Lucy is going to screw up and ask lots of questions, because she's a med student!  

And can someone tell me if it is normal for med students to live in dorms with RAs?  I feel like even if there are dorms, it feels like everyone is a little too old for that arrangement.      

That part with the med students in dorms like they were undergrads always bothered me.

Carter was a bad mentor, but that isn’t a surprising thing given his training.

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'll never understand the point of Amanda Lee.  I have to think something else was planned and it just got thrown in the trash at the last minute.  None of it makes much sense.  It never made a lot of sense to me that someone who faked her way through a residency program and apparently had very real achievements as a fake doctor would fall apart so quickly.

That was an awful storyline - just rather stupid and creepy on its face, but, especially, as you said, that the ending was so stupid in that she folded so quickly after all those years of successful deception - and yet when it was announced Mare Winningham and Anthony Edwards had married, it managed to ruffle my feathers that the articles all mentioned them starring in Miracle Mile but most failed to mention the ER reunion.

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Also, tae bo!  Hee!   

I still do my Tae Bo tapes (yes, tapes) sometimes.  The gyms were obnoxious as hell, but the actual workouts were great to do at home.

15 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

He betrayed Carol in the worst way, and also Mark.  I just have trouble believing he would act like that, even for a patient.  It was all very dumb.

Awful, both in terms of stupidity and, as another poster noted, character assassination -- his entire arc was finally growing the fuck up.  So they decide to culminate in him screwing over his girlfriend, his close friend, and the entire community the clinic serves?  And later make Carol the idiot who still leaves everything behind to follow his ass?  Yeah, great couple.  🙄  I never cared about them as a couple, but they were both such shitty romantic partners it was rather fitting to put them together and spare the rest of the world from dating either one of them.  But the idea I was supposed to find that boat dock reunion a happy ending had me rolling my eyes so hard I'm surprised they're still not stuck all these decades later. 

[txhorns79]

28 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I still do my Tae Bo tapes (yes, tapes) sometimes.  The gyms were obnoxious as hell, but the actual workouts were great to do at home.

I just like how nicely it places the episode in time.  It was like in the fourth season when someone leaves a Tamagotchi in the ER, and Anna gets really into it.  Hello 1997! 

[Acmeproducts]

Mare is so talented. I wish her time at ER had been with a better storyline.

I am also glad that she and Tony reconnected and got married. I loved them in Miracle Mile.

[Notabug]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:21 AM, Acmeproducts said:

That part with the med students in dorms like they were undergrads always bothered me.

Carter was a bad mentor, but that isn’t a surprising thing given his training.

ER was never clear, but I think that the med school was supposed to be Northwestern.  I attended a different big 10 school, THE OSU, and there were 2 graduate dorms.  They weren’t just for med students, but all grad students.  They also had some townhouse apartments for married grad students.  

Remember a lot of grad students are not from the US and it can be a real hassle to try to find decent housing off-campus when you’re  coming to to the US from elsewhere. With a dorm, you know you can walk to class, get a meal in the cafeteria, don’t have to bring or buy furnishings.  When you’re starting med school and in class from 8-5 every day; it can be a relief to know you’re just a 10 minute walk to get home.

Grad dorms do have RA’s but they don’t chaperone parties. They don’t chaperone undergrad parties, either.  For the grad dorms, it would be another grad student, not someone who’d’ already finished.  They serve mostly as a resource person; notifying maintenance of issues, helping the residents find basic services, getting them to the hospital if they’re sick, mediating problems between residents. They get free room and board for it.  Virtually everyone in grad school is over 21, they don’t need babysat.  There are public areas of the dorm which can be reserved residents for parties, but the minute things got out of hand, one of the RA’s, office staff, or the dorm director would’ve contacted campus police and the party would be shut down.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Notabug

[GiandujaPie]

Just watched the awful Blackout episode from season 14 where Abby slept with Moretti. So many terrible things happening. First of all, is there nobody left on the show who knows that Abby is an alcoholic? Why wouldn't Neela know? They were roommates for a while and are supposedly good friends so how is it that Neela didn't know? And then even if she didn't know, how is it that no one noticed that clearly Abby was out of control drunk? Yes, I suppose Pratt noticed when he told her not to go back to the ER to check on the family with the baby but no one else did? Some friend Neela turned out to be. And Moretti clearly should have known better. Not only was Abby married, but he should have known she was drunk and incapable of consent AND he was her boss. Clearly wrong in so many different ways! 

And then Abby's behavior after getting home was so awful. The poor babysitter. And then what was Abby thinking getting in the car and driving herself to the airport??? At least at some point she recognized she was too impaired to finish the drive and flagged down a cab. But whatever happened to her car and why wouldn't she have taken the car seat with her? And then her behavior at the airport - she is truly lucky that they didn't call law enforcement who would have then called CPS because she was clearly endangering the baby and she was still drunk! 

I guess ER was effective in showing Abby hitting rock bottom (is this her rock bottom or does she have farther to go?) but so many people just either did nothing or took advantage. Disgusting all around. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I have zero sympathy for Abby in this arc.

I found it somewhat ridiculous that no one knew that she was an alcoholic (except Coburn?), although I guess it’s possible, but more so that she was allowed to keep working while drunk and no one reported her like she was so fast to do with Carter in S6. Instead it turned into yet another reason to praise Abby as being the best ever because she was so brave to go to rehab on her own and had it so hard taking care of a kid and working. Give me a break. It was 2007; it wasn’t exactly unheard of for someone to be a working mother. 

The incident with the babysitter is just one of many reasons that show this arc proves Abby is an unfit mother. First she relapses while she is supposed to be taking care of her injured child and has been whining before he got hurt about how much Luka is disrupting her life. Then she’s going out to bars and drinking at all hours and again neglecting Joe, and of course the whole driving drunk thing. If she knew she could spiral so bad if anything happened to Luka (what if he had died or gotten terminally ill or something?), then she should have had an abortion again or gotten her tubes tied or any kind of other preventive measure to keep her from having children. Why did she have a baby if her recovery is so unstable and she can so easily snap? She does not care about Joe at all. It was evidenced in Bloodline and it comes up again here. She will prioritize herself over her child and her husband every single time. 

Probably no one called CPS because it would go against the writers’ narrative that Abby is always the hero and is a model wife and mother, and everyone adores her and is her best friend. Pratt’s reassurance that she is still a wonderful mother is questionable at best. Luka should have left her instead of crawling back and whisking her away to Boston, and she should have faced the same professional consequences Carter did rather than a half-assed “probation” that was never mentioned again. Do we think if Carter had had a kid in S6 that he endangered that he would have gotten off the hook so easily?

Edited December 12, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[GiandujaPie]

LOL @Cloud9Shopper I get that you hate Abby and I'm not saying that she gets a pass or should get a pass but I also don't think that Abby is being shown as the best-est ever mother and person that you think the show is doing. She clearly spiraled out of control here because she has a disease and it's pathetic that her friends/colleagues who are doctors all failed to recognize it and/or took advantage. CPS didn't get called on her because she was a white woman, and clearly middle class. My husband is a defense attorney in CPS cases and in these situations, if the parent is white and middle class, CPS will hardly ever get involved. However, if the parents are non-white, even if they are middle class, there is a much higher likeliehood of CPS involvement. Anyway, I'm not sure that this was the point of ER having Abby go to the airport clearly out of control. I was just making a real-life observation of what could have happened if a parent shows up at the airport intoxicated with their baby and makes a scene. 

Yes, Abby should have recognized that her alcoholism is not under control, but from what I recall, Luka doesn't even think she has a problem. But that's the thing with alcoholics, they stay sober for a few years, think they have it under control, and then a little adversity and it can come rearing back. They need to have better support and since Abby was missing or lacking in that, she relapsed. I still just can't believe that her supposed good friend Neela did nothing when everyone could see that she was drunk at the bar. I'll give the others a pass in that maybe they thought Abby was just letting loose, but as a friend, Neela should have known that Abby was spiraling and should have done more. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I will agree that Luka didn’t seem to be much knowledgeable about Abby’s alcoholism or even care that much. He made a joke in S13 about how she could serve him martinis in her bikini on their honeymoon. He overall is even pretty forgiving of her for endangering Joe and lets her be alone with him relatively quickly after rehab, which I always thought was odd given that he’s already lost two children. Like he seemed he was over it in about 10 minutes and was eager to run away with her to a new city so she could escape consequences of her actions.

I think the show was trying to show us why Abby is still a wonderful mother though because Pratt tells her something about how bad parents come into the ER all the time and she is not one of those. I don’t see given her behavior and neglect of her kid how she could be seen as a good mom. Even in S12 and 13 she never seems all that happy to be expecting or to have Joe around from the second she finds out she’s pregnant and is freaking out. She seems bored and miserable and complained through 90% of her pregnancy. But yet the writing tells us that apparently being a mother is all she ever wanted and of course she is amazing at that too. 

And yes, she does have support. She has an AA sponsor (and I guess a regular meeting, though it didn’t seem like she’d been to a meeting in who knows how long), she has tons of friends at work, she has her mother who she can call. And she chooses to drink anyway with a young injured child at home. She needs to grow up. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I did end up skipping A Simple Twist of Fate in my watch, so went ahead to It’s All in Your Head (8x15).

Abby annoyed me less in this episode but my opinion stands that she is not totally surprised or ignorant about Luka going after Brian like she claims. And shallow note, but she never looks good with bangs. They are always in her face and so sloppy looking. More bad S8 hair. 

I found it funny that the no-name blonde at Luka’s apartment kind of reminded me of Nicole. It’s not relevant since we never see No-Name Blonde again but it was mildly amusing. But I really do think Luka and Abby are better when they are not a couple versus when he is begging her to stay with him like a puppy.

Ugh, Mark’s tumor is back. The beginning of the end is really upon us. The scene between him and Susan at the end was devastating, as was the denial/lying to Rachel. I wish he could have been written off another way but I know nothing else would have ever worked. 

Another shallow note: In the early 2000s, I had a top just like Rachel’s striped rugby collar top. Forgive me there for a minute for being nostalgic about the fashion of that decade. (I also used to really want a black leather coat like the one Carol used to wear.)

Quotables of the night:

Frank: “Lawyers are half as smart as doctors and twice as sneaky.” 

Romano: “I’m beginning to think ER stands for everyone’s r*******.” (That line would never stand today but it made me laugh anyway.)

The fistfight between Frank and Jerry was so stupid and probably should have been cut from the episode. 

I am also skipping Secrets and Lies. Now that I’m near the end of S8 and getting closer to the point where the show falls off a cliff, I may slow down my rewatch a bit and start skipping more episodes. 

But oh, I just realized the next episode I watch will be Pratt’s first. Looking forward to seeing what my first impression of him will be this time around. 

[Acmeproducts]

Secrets and Lies was dreadful. 

 

[WendyCR72]

13 minutes ago, Acmeproducts said:

Secrets and Lies was dreadful. 

 

This episode should have been burned.

[Heathen]

I'm kinda-sorta rewatching the early years (it's background noise, and I'm outright skipping some episodes). The first Chris and Kenny Law episode is on now, and I have to say that the racist stereotypes are gross. This shouldn't have been acceptable even in 1995-96. 

 

Benton's appendectomy was in the last episode, and that's always good for a laugh. 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 hours ago, Acmeproducts said:

Secrets and Lies was dreadful. 

 

I am still flabbergasted about how it’s a big favorite in other fan spaces. I’m not a huge fan of the outside the hospital episodes, and nobody looked good in this outside of Kerry and Gallant. 

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

 

Another shallow note: In the early 2000s, I had a top just like Rachel’s striped rugby collar top. Forgive me there for a minute for being nostalgic about the fashion of that decade. (I also used to really want a black leather coat like the one Carol used to wear.)

I had worked at the Gap during college from 99-00, and I recognize so much of what Lucy wears during Season 5 and Season 6 as being from the store.  It's a nostalgic trip.

[Olis93]

18 hours ago, Acmeproducts said:

Secrets and Lies was dreadful. 

 

One of the worst episodes of season 8 for sure and one that I have only watched once. Completely disposable. 

[Acmeproducts]

10 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I am still flabbergasted about how it’s a big favorite in other fan spaces. I’m not a huge fan of the outside the hospital episodes, and nobody looked good in this outside of Kerry and Gallant. 

I don’t think Kerry looked good in it, though I understand why she did what she did.

15 hours ago, Heathen said:

I'm kinda-sorta rewatching the early years (it's background noise, and I'm outright skipping some episodes). The first Chris and Kenny Law episode is on now, and I have to say that the racist stereotypes are gross. This shouldn't have been acceptable even in 1995-96. 

 

Benton's appendectomy was in the last episode, and that's always good for a laugh. 

 

Benton’s appy was one of the funniest plots.

I  love CCH Pounder (Dr. Hicks). 

[Cloud9Shopper]

48 minutes ago, Olis93 said:

One of the worst episodes of season 8 for sure and one that I have only watched once. Completely disposable. 

I was on TWOP (RIP) during the original airing in 2002 and still have fond memories of the roast of that episode. 🤣I watched it again on my first rewatch back in 2018 or 19 and still don’t like it. Now it’s a skip. One run through every episode was enough for me honestly; I plan on more skips the later I get into the series. 

[Heathen]

4 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I was on TWOP (RIP) during the original airing in 2002 and still have fond memories of the roast of that episode. 🤣I watched it again on my first rewatch back in 2018 or 19 and still don’t like it. Now it’s a skip. One run through every episode was enough for me honestly; I plan on more skips the later I get into the series. 

I miss those TWoP episode recaps. The Cartus! The Weavus! Bummer.

I would like to know what the hell the writers were thinking with "Secrets and Lies." Character assassination on somebody? More St. Abby, every man's dream? 

[txhorns79]

I am now in Season 6.  Credit where it is due, I thought Kerry's storyline with Alan Alda was very nicely done.  During their discussion of Gabe's dementia, I thought Laura Innes did a great job of showing just how devastating this was for Weaver and what Dr. Lawrence meant to her.  It was nice to see her doing something other than yelling or plotting.   

I don't love how much they are trying to push Carol and Luka together.  I hate Carla so much.  I can't even with the "you might not even be the father" with Peter.  She's an absolute monster.  

Something I realized when watching Mark's dad discuss his D-Day experiences with Elizabeth was that John Cullum would have been about 14 at the time of D-Day.  Also, when Carter gives Malucci trouble for attending a medical school in Grenada, I kept thinking: "He matched to the same residency program you are in.  What does that say about you?"    

[Acmeproducts]

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I am now in Season 6.  Credit where it is due, I thought Kerry's storyline with Alan Alda was very nicely done.  During their discussion of Gabe's dementia, I thought Laura Innes did a great job of showing just how devastating this was for Weaver and what Dr. Lawrence meant to her.  It was nice to see her doing something other than yelling or plotting.   

I don't love how much they are trying to push Carol and Luka together.  I hate Carla so much.  I can't even with the "you might not even be the father" with Peter.  She's an absolute monster.  

Something I realized when watching Mark's dad discuss his D-Day experiences with Elizabeth was that John Cullum would have been about 14 at the time of D-Day.     

John Cullum is still with us.

Alan Alda’s performance was so good.