All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[snarktini]

On 1/18/2023 at 6:45 PM, Bastet said:

Exactly -- the aunt isn't going to prevail over the mom when the mom has made herself a fit parent, because reunification is the goal.  Chloe's prior bad acts, even abandonment, don't matter more than her current circumstances.  She'll have a social worker up her ass for a while, making sure she remains that way, but it's accurate that she'd get Little Susie back.

But, yeah, what was unrealistic was that Chloe had achieved that level of stability in the short time frame this played out over. 

Not only would Susan not win custody, she sure as hell didn't have the authority to put Susie up for adoption in S2 E5! Not without a very long process of severing parental rights. (This was surely covered in the prior 118 forum pages lol.) Their mom loosely says, she's not yours, but that's it.

A more real alternative would have been foster care, but maybe the writers thought the audience wouldn't approve of Susan considering that?

[Notabug]

14 hours ago, snarktini said:

Not only would Susan not win custody, she sure as hell didn't have the authority to put Susie up for adoption in S2 E5! Not without a very long process of severing parental rights. (This was surely covered in the prior 118 forum pages lol.) Their mom loosely says, she's not yours, but that's it.

A more real alternative would have been foster care, but maybe the writers thought the audience wouldn't approve of Susan considering that?

ER did a lot of dumb stuff when it came to child custody.  Jeannie adopted an HIV positive baby who was first placed with her as a foster mother after essentially no evaluation.  

Sandy and Kerry had a very planned pregnancy back in the day when gay couples could not be legally married and therefore there needed to be very specific legal actions taken to assure that the non-birth parent would have parental rights.  But Kerry, always a stickler for the rules, did nothing to secure her parental rights despite this, which allowed Sandy's parents to have the upper hand when it came to custody after Sandy died.  Meanwhile, when Henry was born, Kerry was right there demanding Abby perform the spinal tap on him even though she apparently was not legally recognized as his parent?  Hospitals are remarkably strict about that stuff.

Carol was devastated, and, we the audience were supposed to feel bad right along with her when she couldn't step in an adopt the Russian child just a couple of months after Carol's suicide attempt.  Again with a child turning up in the ER and someone working there deciding to take it home as if it were a stray puppy.  That is not how children's services works in the real world.

Then, there is the mess that was Carla, Peter, mystery daddy, Reese, Roger and maybe the Easter Bunny.  Multiple nonsensical plotlines based on no known rule of law.

[Dr.OO7]

23 hours ago, Notabug said:

But Kerry, always a stickler for the rules, did nothing to secure her parental rights despite this, which allowed Sandy's parents to have the upper hand when it came to custody after Sandy died. 

To be fair, I could have sworn there was a line or two about them being in the process of doing so before Sandy died.

 

23 hours ago, Notabug said:

Carol was devastated, and, we the audience were supposed to feel bad right along with her when she couldn't step in an adopt the Russian child just a couple of months after Carol's suicide attempt.

I liked Carol, I almost always did, but even as a kid at the time that episode aired, I wondered how she could have ever thought that was a possibility.

And Tag being vilified for understandably not wanting to instantly be a parent to an ill child, though that's on the personal side, not legal.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I never got why Carla waited until like two years after Reece was born to say Peter may not be his father. Was she really too cowardly to say that when she was pregnant or did she have a revelation late in S5? (Or was she just saying that to get a better chance of running off to “Germany, Hamburg”?) Either way she treated him like crap but even so it made no sense. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Bastet]

The retconning of Carla into every sexist, racist stereotype on the planet was profoundly offensive. 

[Dr.OO7]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

The retconning of Carla into every sexist, racist stereotype on the planet was profoundly offensive

Absolutely.

4 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Either way she treated him like crap but even so it made no sense. 

It certainly made her already awful Season 3 behavior--getting pissy when Benton asked if she was sure he was the father, refusing to accept his apologies or let him help, then when she did let him help, getting even angrier that he wasn't at her beck and call every second--look even worse. All that knowing full well he might not be the baby's father and that this wasn't his responsibility in the first place?

[littlebennysmom]

Just watched the Third Watch/ER two parter, the subject being the disappearance of little Susie due to the umpteenth "sLiP uP tHaT wIlL nEvEr HaPpEn AgAiN" by Chloe.  God, I hated the whole Chloe storyline so much and I can't believe they dedicated a crossover episode to it, ugh.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I guess it was to help the police show that it was connected to, but I found the storyline boring, and ridiculous.    The non-ending where Chloe and little Suzy disappear, and that's the end was bizarre.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

And besides the point, nobody asked for more Chloe anyway. 🤣

Sometimes I feel like the show started going downhill in S8 before Mark died, between that episode and the inclusion of Secrets and Lies. (I know the latter has surprisingly become a fan favorite but I still hate it with every fiber of my being so I’m counting it as a sign of the decline.)

[littlebennysmom]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

And besides the point, nobody asked for more Chloe anyway. 🤣

Sometimes I feel like the show started going downhill in S8 before Mark died, between that episode and the inclusion of Secrets and Lies. (I know the latter has surprisingly become a fan favorite but I still hate it with every fiber of my being so I’m counting it as a sign of the decline.)

Secrets and Lies is a fan favorite?  Yikes, it's cringeworthy.

[WendyCR72]

47 minutes ago, littlebennysmom said:

Secrets and Lies is a fan favorite?  Yikes, it's cringeworthy.

Yeah, I don't think "Secrets and Lies" can be construed as a "fan favorite". It was terrible.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I’ve hung out in some other fan spaces for the show (and am cutting back anyway because a lot of the people in Discord and Reddit are kind of…unhinged, or they’re just bullies), and a lot of them have mentioned how much they love Secrets and Lies. I mean, to each their own and all but I still remember everyone ripping it to shreds even back in 2002. And I didn’t like it anymore when I rewatched it a couple years ago. (I was determined to see every episode of the series but I probably should have quit earlier and fast forwarded to S15.)

This is one of the only spaces I’ll discuss ER at this point because people elsewhere just kind of suck. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Notabug]

8 hours ago, littlebennysmom said:

Secrets and Lies is a fan favorite?  Yikes, it's cringeworthy.

Not in these parts.  We've discussed it before and I don't recall anyone liking it, let alone calling it a favorite.

Terrible episode with multiple characters behaving in completely out of character ways.  The sniggering when Carter revealed he was molested when he was 11 was unforgivable, IMO.

There was a bit of GV reciting Shakespeare in Croatian and fencing that was tolerable and that was about it.

[ch1]

The only way I can see Secrets and Lies being a favorite is if Luka was a favorite of yours.  Mr. great at fencing and lost his virginity to his wife makes him have the more tolerable writing of that shitshow.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Halfway through S4 now. 

I would have rather seen a Doug and Carol surprise wedding than the shitshow that was Abby and Luka’s wedding in S13. Greg Powell is hot but Carol blew that one. 

The elderly rape victims storyline is so heartbreaking. 

The plot with Jeanie and Anspaugh’s son is also here now. She really does a good job of connecting with him. And as someone else who looks away during blood draws, I wouldn’t mind having Jeanie or someone like her do my blood work. 

[outsmartabullet]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:03 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I’ve hung out in some other fan spaces for the show (and am cutting back anyway because a lot of the people in Discord and Reddit are kind of…unhinged, or they’re just bullies), and a lot of them have mentioned how much they love Secrets and Lies. I mean, to each their own and all but I still remember everyone ripping it to shreds even back in 2002. And I didn’t like it anymore when I rewatched it a couple years ago. (I was determined to see every episode of the series but I probably should have quit earlier and fast forwarded to S15.)

This is one of the only spaces I’ll discuss ER at this point because people elsewhere just kind of suck. 

Total garbage, and one of those times where I just thought 'I don't recognise these characters anymore, since when did they act like this'

[outsmartabullet]

Listening to the Setting the Tone podcast episode on The Letter. Gotta say, at risk of being cast out of the fandom, I found The Letter pretty cringeworthy at times. The Romano cancer speech is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous, Abby's 'superman' comment (although at least she was drunk), and just generally they lay it on way too thick. 

[Heathen]

On 4/30/2023 at 10:14 PM, outsmartabullet said:

Listening to the Setting the Tone podcast episode on The Letter. Gotta say, at risk of being cast out of the fandom, I found The Letter pretty cringeworthy at times. The Romano cancer speech is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous, Abby's 'superman' comment (although at least she was drunk), and just generally they lay it on way too thick. 

I'll join you when you're cast out. I thought The Letter was cringeworthy, and atypical of both Mark and Elizabeth, even in 2002. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Cyber high-five to my fellow fandom outcasts! I’m not welcome much anywhere else because I can’t stand Abby and Abby/Luka as a pairing and I’m not shy about either. But they’re ER fandom royalty so I’ve been effectively shunned haha. We can revisit that down the road, though.

I’ll let you know how I feel about The Letter when I watch it in four seasons from now. 😂I’m getting close to Exodus and I am super excited. 

 

[Notabug]

The whole plot of The Letter was ridiculous.  Mark, the much beloved ER doc who'd worked there for years dies and his wife faxes a letter to the ER from him with a note tacked onto the bottom announcing his death?  Who does that?  Why wouldn't Elizabeth have called Kerry, or Carter, or Susan, or even Romano and told them personally?  Nobody sends a death notice by fax.  Just as Carol faxing the news of her pregnancy to Doug was unbelievable, so was the fax.

I could see Elizabeth hanging onto Mark's letter and giving it to Kerry or one of the others to share with the rest of the ER after the funeral, but no way does she fax it.  And, no way does Carter tell them to just tack it up on a public bulletin board where anyone might see it.  Kerry was working that day, if nothing else, page her and let her know before she finds it.

They came across as a bunch of insensitive dolts.

The other problem with The Letter is it came after On the Beach, so the audience already knew Mark was dead and the details of the end of his life, it was anticlimactic to have them rehash it a week later.

And, as someone who detested Abby by that point, I was tired of the show's insistence that no plot point was important until the audience got to see MT mope and scowl and whine.  Nothing was real until we saw Abby complain about it.  I knew she'd get far more screen time than she deserved to moan about Mark's death. while other character who knew him better, would get short shrift.  And that's what happened.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Notabug

[Cloud9Shopper]

I have no idea why, since we’re talking about Mark’s death, but I’m laughing so hard at the mention of scenes of the ER staff using faxes for announcing all their deep personal news. I realize this was the 90s and early 2000s but these people had phones! (Not to mention the post office.) I guess now that it’s spelled out and I’m rethinking about it, it really is a dumbass idea, especially when Carol’s fax to Doug got stuck and everyone she worked with loved gossiping so anyone could have grabbed a hold of it and read it. 

Although cell phones weren’t much of a thing in 2002 so maybe Elizabeth couldn’t call Chicago (not sure if that house in Hawaii had a landline). 

[Notabug]

14 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I have no idea why, since we’re talking about Mark’s death, but I’m laughing so hard at the mention of scenes of the ER staff using faxes for announcing all their deep personal news. I realize this was the 90s and early 2000s but these people had phones! (Not to mention the post office.) I guess now that it’s spelled out and I’m rethinking about it, it really is a dumbass idea, especially when Carol’s fax to Doug got stuck and everyone she worked with loved gossiping so anyone could have grabbed a hold of it and read it. 

Although cell phones weren’t much of a thing in 2002 so maybe Elizabeth couldn’t call Chicago (not sure if that house in Hawaii had a landline). 

Even so, I was alive in the 90's; I was actually a physician working in a hospital in those days.  We had fax machines and used them all the time.  FOR WORK.  I never sent anyone a personal message via fax and don't know anyone else who did.  We did once send a birthday fax to another floor for a coworker and we used to get nearby eateries to fax us their menus; but nobody used the fax for personal communication.  There is no privacy at either end.

As for Elizabeth not having a phone; there was no urgency, Mark was dead, they were thousands of miles away with a lot of arrangements to be made.  She didn't have to call anyone that very moment.  Then again, if she had access to a fax machine, she had access to a phone line because that is how they work.  Which begs the question as to why she didn't pick up the phone and call Chicago rather than send a fax.

[thefulltimedad]

On 4/25/2023 at 10:01 PM, littlebennysmom said:

Secrets and Lies is a fan favorite?  Yikes, it's cringeworthy.

Hi, first time caller and big STT podcast fan. 

 

I know i might be in the minority on this forum, but Secrets & Lies has achieved pretty well-known cult status in the years since it’s airing.

You might not agree with IMDb’s user rating system, but that episode is ranked No. 13 overall with an 8.7 rating with hundreds of votes cast. 

 

I think the offbeat nature of it provides a bit of an inhale moment before you get sucked back into the Mark stuff. Was it a perfect episode? Not by any stretch. Carter bragging about being sexually assaulted as an 11 year old and no one saying anything is particularly shocking. 

But I find the rest of the episode to be a nice way to get to know more about the cast who’s gonna move the show forward after mark dies, especially Gallant and Susan 2.0. 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Random S4 observation I forgot last week: Elizabeth getting it on with a hard boiled egg is a classic scene. Change my mind. 

Back to my regularly scheduled Thursday night thoughts:

Family Practice is another dull episode in S4. But it means we get rid of Cynthia (for the most part), so yay! I’ll like her better once she gets to New York, changes her name to Olivia Benson and gets way more assertive as a cop. 😂

Anyway, tonight was also Exodus, which is still one of my favorite episodes of the series and a great Carter highlight reel. I’ve seen chemical spill storylines on a couple other medical shows since (Chicago Med and New Amsterdam) and neither of them did it as well as ER, even 25 years later. 

[outsmartabullet]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:03 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Elizabeth getting it on with a hard boiled egg is a classic scene.

They really ruined this character, she was so self-possessed and confident but by Season 7 she's suddenly overemotional etc.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Elizabeth is my favorite female character (and Mark and Elizabeth are my favorite ER couple), so I am biased, but I think the drama that they piled on her and Mark was more a driver in her becoming the way she was than getting a total personality transplant. Like it wasn’t enough to just have Mark have the tumor and her being pregnant. We had to them bring Rachel back, Ella ODs because of Rachel and then Mark dies leaving Elizabeth alone with Ella. I don’t blame Elizabeth at all really as much as I blame the writers for making these asinine decisions. And unlike someone like Abby, Elizabeth didn’t, IMO, create a lot of her own misery and problems so I guess I’m more sympathetic. 

Of course one of my other gripes with the post-Mark era that does tie into my point is that there was a dearth of strong female characters later in the show. Abby* and Neela were hot messes and just there as man magnets, there were some female characters introduced in later seasons who nobody really cared about, and..who else was there? I would have liked to have seen more of Sara Gilbert’s character or learn more about Coburn when it was revealed she was an alcoholic. But alas. 🤷‍♀️At least in the early seasons you had women like Hicks, Carol, Jeanie, and early Elizabeth who could be confident in themselves and good at their work instead of wailing and melting down at the slightest setback. 
 

*I know a lot of women in the fanbase see Abby as someone they relate to and kind of a role model but I feel like there are way better options for characters to look up to if you want to go that route. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Heathen]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:26 AM, thefulltimedad said:

I think the offbeat nature of it provides a bit of an inhale moment before you get sucked back into the Mark stuff. Was it a perfect episode? Not by any stretch. Carter bragging about being sexually assaulted as an 11 year old and no one saying anything is particularly shocking. 

 

Carter certainly wasn't bragging about being the victim of child sexual abuse. If anything, he looked and sounded distinctly uncomfortable at having the subject brought up at all. 

I hate that episode. It's boring and inappropriate and the worship of St. Abby nonsense makes me want to puke. Zofran, stat! 

I think Elizabeth was pretty normal until the beginning of season 8. As I've said before, the writers really dropped the ball -- they could and should have had a great extended storyline about Elizabeth and postpartum depression. It would have been timely, too -- Andrea Yates drowned her children a few months before the beginning of that season. How the hell did the writers miss that storyline? 

And that mental-illness storyline would have been much better than what we got -- St. Abby overcoming mental illness suffered by her family who apparently did it all just to inconvenience her. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I actually had a friend who didn’t see the later seasons (and has no desire to) ask me if Abby had PPD when I told her how disconnected she always seemed from Joe, like she never loved him and didn’t seem to enjoy anything about motherhood. (I was describing the scene where Abby said he’d been crying for 10 minutes and she just flopped on the couch and ignored it instead of going to get him or soothe him.) I said no, she was just lazy haha. At that point, it would have been more Abby drama and whining that nobody needed anyway. 

It would have been interesting to see Elizabeth with PPD now that I think about it. It fits. Although by S8, the show was starting to lose some footing (it was the last real strong season IMO), so I’m not sure if it would have been particularly well written. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Heathen]

6 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I actually had a friend who didn’t see the later seasons (and has no desire to) ask me if Abby had PPD when I told her how disconnected she always seemed from Joe, like she never loved him and didn’t seem to enjoy anything about motherhood. (I was describing the scene where Abby said he’d been crying for 10 minutes and she just flopped on the couch and ignored it instead of going to get him or soothe him.) I said no, she was just lazy haha. At that point, it would have been more Abby drama and whining that nobody needed anyway. 

It would have been interesting to see Elizabeth with PPD now that I think about it. It fits. Although by S8, the show was starting to lose some footing (it was the last real strong season IMO), so I’m not sure if it would have been particularly well written. 

Honestly, I think we did see Elizabeth with PPD. It just wasn't enunciated as PPD. It was written as "Elizabeth the stressed-out mean bitch who can't handle both a career and motherhood," which was really unfair to Elizabeth.

You're right about season eight being the last strong season. I wished more than a few times that the helicopter had landed on Abby. I actually told my sister after the season 14 finale that I hoped she'd been in the ambulance. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Don’t feel bad. Sometimes I wish Abby had died in childbirth or during her relapse. (I would bet she didn’t maintain her sobriety for much longer than a year or two after she left anyway; she never took recovery seriously.) It always kind of pisses me off that she got a happy ending and everything she wanted while someone like Carter ended up alone. 

[ch1]

55 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Don’t feel bad. Sometimes I wish Abby had died in childbirth or during her relapse. (I would bet she didn’t maintain her sobriety for much longer than a year or two after she left anyway; she never took recovery seriously.) It always kind of pisses me off that she got a happy ending and everything she wanted while someone like Carter ended up alone. 

Carter wasn’t alone just in the romantic sense - he was literally on his own.  The only family member that gave a damn about him was his dead grandmother and the only person that was around when he had his kidney surgery was someone he hadn’t seen in years - Benton.  I’ll never get why the writers chose to take Carter in such a damn depressing direction.  On top of everything they also keep him in a hopeless marriage for years.  I mean come on already.  

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, ch1 said:

Carter wasn’t alone just in the romantic sense - he was literally on his own.  The only family member that gave a damn about him was his dead grandmother

I really wish they had thrown in a few references to his mom through the years after we last saw her.  He and Eleanor had that lovely arc that resulted in a huge step forward in understanding and reconnecting, so it would have been nice to give us hints that was continuing.  Like in the episode with Gamma's funeral, it makes sense Eleanor isn't there, but open a scene with him concluding a phone call with her or something quick like that.  Instead, it plays like she went back to her old ways.

[Cloud9Shopper]

It’s too bad they killed off Gamma, as the actress is still alive today. I realize the kidney transplant plot likely hadn’t been thought of in S9 when she was being written out, but they could have had the character offscreen for a while and then have her come back for the transplant, or at least have Carter mention her, say he’d be staying with her, anything. 

The stillbirth felt like trauma porn really. And Kem’s grief was understandable but at some point she owed him an answer about whether she wanted to keep the marriage or get a divorce. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Watched the episode tonight where Chase is brought in with the OD, and Carter’s grandparents kind of (or maybe not kind of) lay the blame on him. I’m not sure what they thought would come of it if Carter had told them about Chase’s addiction prior to the OD. If Chase didn’t want help, telling Gamma and his grandfather wouldn’t have made much difference, right? Unless he was more likely to listen to them than he did to Carter, which wasn’t implied either way. I could see why they were upset about the at-home detox, though.

Two lighter scenes I liked from the few episodes I watched tonight: 

-Morgenstern coming back having made muffins for everyone and having a new lease on life. It made watching him mess up that much more difficult. (Oh, and any excuse to have Shirley in the conversation is a good one.) 

-The ER banquet! It never gets old. It’s a great example of the camaraderie between the staff in the S1-8 era. 

 

[Heathen]

On 5/10/2023 at 6:36 PM, Bastet said:

I really wish they had thrown in a few references to his mom through the years after we last saw her.  He and Eleanor had that lovely arc that resulted in a huge step forward in understanding and reconnecting, so it would have been nice to give us hints that was continuing.  Like in the episode with Gamma's funeral, it makes sense Eleanor isn't there, but open a scene with him concluding a phone call with her or something quick like that.  Instead, it plays like she went back to her old ways.

I had the impression that Eleanor and John II reunited. In the transplant episode, or maybe the series finale, doesn't Carter tell Benton that his folks are in the Bahamas or something? And then tells Benton that the private jet was gone because of the recession. 

Either way, neither was there when their son had a transplant. They suck. 

On 5/10/2023 at 4:43 PM, ch1 said:

Carter wasn’t alone just in the romantic sense - he was literally on his own.  The only family member that gave a damn about him was his dead grandmother and the only person that was around when he had his kidney surgery was someone he hadn’t seen in years - Benton.  I’ll never get why the writers chose to take Carter in such a damn depressing direction.  On top of everything they also keep him in a hopeless marriage for years.  I mean come on already.  

Maybe the "Carter's lonely life sucks" storyline was the writers demonstrating that money can't buy happiness. 

I wish the writers had kicked Kem to the curb and brought back Roxanne or Debbie, the Red Cross worker. Give Carter a freaking scrap of happiness, for crying out loud. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I wish Anna had stuck around, as I will die on the hill that she was the best fit for him out of all the women they tried to pair him with. They had nice chemistry and started off as friends, and she was low-drama (even with the boyfriend who was a drug addict) and laid back. I think I’m the only fan left who still ships them. 🤷‍♀️ It’s fine haha.

I also preferred him with Abby in the infamous love triangle wars because at least Abby seemed happier and relaxed when she was around him but I don’t blame him for bailing after what happened at his grandmother’s funeral. I don’t think he would have been able to deal with how easily she flew off the handle in the long term. 

[txhorns79]

On 5/12/2023 at 7:33 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

but I don’t blame him for bailing after what happened at his grandmother’s funeral.

There really was no coming back from that.  I think even the most patient, understanding person in the world would have been like: "Enough."

[Cloud9Shopper]

Watched Shades of Gray from S4 tonight and it’s one of the saddest episodes nobody talks about between the clinic bombing, Elizabeth’s patient Allison being a victim after overcoming so much with the car accident and her voice box surgery, Anspaugh’s son’s funeral, and the pregnant girl who ended up getting a PE and lying in a coma. (I thought her parents were so shitty to the baby’s father, the girl’s boyfriend, too. Wish we had gotten another side of the story rather than ‘he took our daughter away.’ I totally get that they weren’t thrilled that their teenage daughter was pregnant but the boyfriend seemed reasonable and responsible. They could have at least let him have some custody.)

Oh, and then Morgenstern leaves too.

At least we got a nice Peter/Elizabeth scene at the end to end on a somewhat OK note. 

I think it speaks to how well the trauma and sadness was done in the earlier seasons though. It was impactful but not laid on too thick to the point where you hated your life just for watching. 😂(In another group I’m in someone said they were enjoying S14, and all I could think was…this person has to be a sadist lol. There’s no way unless you like constant misery porn and drama. I almost developed a drinking problem just from watching that season! 🤣)

I’m hoping to wrap up S4 next week! I haven’t seen the last few episodes of it in ages so I only remember scattered plots. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Just finished S4 tonight. I haven’t seen the last few episodes of this season since my first run through back in 2019 or so.

Fun fact: Michael Rappaport who was the patient in 4x20 (Of Past Regret and Future Fear) was on an S16 episode of SVU playing a client of a sociopathic lawyer who was played by Scott Grimes (Morris). The episode is called Sheltered Outcasts. Highly recommend.

With that out of the way: Shirley killed it in her bit appearances, especially when she told Elizabeth she could “just marry some Joe Schmoe” to fix her sponsorship problems and stay in the U.S. There was not enough Shirley.

Doug’s stint with the rapid detox on the baby puts him in about C-tier for me character wise. Sure he’s grown up in his personal life, but he still practices way too shoddy and risky medicine sometimes. I’m not a fan but by the time we see him again at the end of the series, it seems like he’s matured both personally and professionally, so I can forgive past wrongdoings.

The ending of the S4 finale was also well done with the schizophrenic (? or was it bipolar?) patient and his family. I wish we knew what ended up happening to them. The pan away from the trauma room at the end reminded me of the ending of an early, early S1 episode with one of Benton’s patients being brought back in worse condition. 

S4 overall: I had a hard time deciding where I’d rank it in the seasons I’ve rewatched so far. I do feel there were a lot of strong storylines no one talks about much in discussion of the show (the elderly rape victims, the rapid detox of the last two episodes, the clinic bombing, Anspaugh’s son and his bond with Jeanie) plus there was Exodus, which is one of the series’ best episodes. I thought Ambush was a weaker season premiere and that Family Practice and Fathers and Sons were kind of dull bottle episodes. (Although I know there are people who love Fathers and Sons so take my opinion with a grain of salt.) Still, the only real sore spot for me outside those two episodes was Cynthia, and the Synergix storyline to a lesser extent. 

Tough call, but I decided it’s tied with S1 for best season yet, so from best to worst I have: S4 and S1 (tied at the top), S3, and then S2 still at the bottom. 

Going to start S5 and the Lucy era on Thursday! 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I am four episodes into S5 and Lucy is just grating on me this time around. On my first rewatch, I just thought she was OK, like I was indifferent to her, but now she just seems hopelessly incompetent in the ER. She doesn’t take direction well or seem interested in doing anything for herself, and I can see why Carol and Carter get annoyed. I was nodding along in agreement when he told Lucy to stop lying to him or look for another rotation. 

I think the third episode of the season, with Rachel asking Mark to treat the horse and the guy coming in with the dynamite strapped to him, feels like the show’s first attempt at a gimmick that backfired. No it’s not as bad as some of the OTT stuff of the later years but it still feels out of place. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Dr.OO7]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:46 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I am four episodes into S5 and Lucy is just grating on me this time around. On my first rewatch, I just thought she was OK, like I was indifferent to her, but now she just seems hopelessly incompetent in the ER.

They really botched her introduction. This is the key problem with Cousin Oliver characters--either (a) Their appearance is contrived, like some long lost relative suddenly showing up out of nowhere, or (b) All the focus is on them, to the detriment of the established characters, or (c) Both. With Lucy, it was a classic example of Error B. There were all these terrific cliffhangers from the end of season 4 that I was dying to see picked up, and instead, they all get resolved with one or two throwaway lines while the entire season 5 premier and several episodes after are all about Lucy. Then they add insult to injury by booting her into the background just as abruptly when they realized she wasn't clicking.

I actually liked her for the most part, it's just that the excessive focus on her backfired.  She was much more tolerable in season 6, when she didn't dominate the entire show and was visibly more mature and competent (as befitting someone entering her 4th year of medical school).

[outsmartabullet]

On 5/24/2023 at 4:24 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Just finished S4 tonight. I haven’t seen the last few episodes of this season since my first run through back in 2019 or so.

Fun fact: Michael Rappaport who was the patient in 4x20 (Of Past Regret and Future Fear) was on an S16 episode of SVU playing a client of a sociopathic lawyer who was played by Scott Grimes (Morris). The episode is called Sheltered Outcasts. Highly recommend.

With that out of the way: Shirley killed it in her bit appearances, especially when she told Elizabeth she could “just marry some Joe Schmoe” to fix her sponsorship problems and stay in the U.S. There was not enough Shirley.

Doug’s stint with the rapid detox on the baby puts him in about C-tier for me character wise. Sure he’s grown up in his personal life, but he still practices way too shoddy and risky medicine sometimes. I’m not a fan but by the time we see him again at the end of the series, it seems like he’s matured both personally and professionally, so I can forgive past wrongdoings.

The ending of the S4 finale was also well done with the schizophrenic (? or was it bipolar?) patient and his family. I wish we knew what ended up happening to them. The pan away from the trauma room at the end reminded me of the ending of an early, early S1 episode with one of Benton’s patients being brought back in worse condition. 

S4 overall: I had a hard time deciding where I’d rank it in the seasons I’ve rewatched so far. I do feel there were a lot of strong storylines no one talks about much in discussion of the show (the elderly rape victims, the rapid detox of the last two episodes, the clinic bombing, Anspaugh’s son and his bond with Jeanie) plus there was Exodus, which is one of the series’ best episodes. I thought Ambush was a weaker season premiere and that Family Practice and Fathers and Sons were kind of dull bottle episodes. (Although I know there are people who love Fathers and Sons so take my opinion with a grain of salt.) Still, the only real sore spot for me outside those two episodes was Cynthia, and the Synergix storyline to a lesser extent. 

Tough call, but I decided it’s tied with S1 for best season yet, so from best to worst I have: S4 and S1 (tied at the top), S3, and then S2 still at the bottom. 

Going to start S5 and the Lucy era on Thursday! 

Shirley is awesome. Even Romano seemed to appreciate her

[littlebennysmom]

On 5/23/2023 at 11:24 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Just finished S4 tonight. I haven’t seen the last few episodes of this season since my first run through back in 2019 or so.

Fun fact: Michael Rappaport who was the patient in 4x20 (Of Past Regret and Future Fear) was on an S16 episode of SVU playing a client of a sociopathic lawyer who was played by Scott Grimes (Morris). The episode is called Sheltered Outcasts. Highly recommend.

With that out of the way: Shirley killed it in her bit appearances, especially when she told Elizabeth she could “just marry some Joe Schmoe” to fix her sponsorship problems and stay in the U.S. There was not enough Shirley.

Doug’s stint with the rapid detox on the baby puts him in about C-tier for me character wise. Sure he’s grown up in his personal life, but he still practices way too shoddy and risky medicine sometimes. I’m not a fan but by the time we see him again at the end of the series, it seems like he’s matured both personally and professionally, so I can forgive past wrongdoings.

The ending of the S4 finale was also well done with the schizophrenic (? or was it bipolar?) patient and his family. I wish we knew what ended up happening to them. The pan away from the trauma room at the end reminded me of the ending of an early, early S1 episode with one of Benton’s patients being brought back in worse condition. 

S4 overall: I had a hard time deciding where I’d rank it in the seasons I’ve rewatched so far. I do feel there were a lot of strong storylines no one talks about much in discussion of the show (the elderly rape victims, the rapid detox of the last two episodes, the clinic bombing, Anspaugh’s son and his bond with Jeanie) plus there was Exodus, which is one of the series’ best episodes. I thought Ambush was a weaker season premiere and that Family Practice and Fathers and Sons were kind of dull bottle episodes. (Although I know there are people who love Fathers and Sons so take my opinion with a grain of salt.) Still, the only real sore spot for me outside those two episodes was Cynthia, and the Synergix storyline to a lesser extent. 

Tough call, but I decided it’s tied with S1 for best season yet, so from best to worst I have: S4 and S1 (tied at the top), S3, and then S2 still at the bottom. 

Going to start S5 and the Lucy era on Thursday! 

Cynthia is so bad it's soured me on Mariska Hargitay in anything/everything.  Such a wet noodle character.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Still working through the first half of S5.

Lucy speaking about Carter into her computer (is it supposed to be a Palm Pilot?) and Carter finding it is very much the 90s equivalent of talking trash about your job on social media and your boss finding out. I think her “hostile environment” claim was also a tad dramatic and the way she tried to challenge Carter to his face and accuse him of being defensive. Maybe there’s something about med school where that’s OK to do; I don’t know, but again I get why Carter is aggravated when Lucy is snapping at him telling him all the ways he’s terrible. I’d want to slap her or fail her myself for her big mouth. God she’s annoying me this time around. I stand on my opinion that she’s just as responsible for her mess if not more than Carter. 

I do think Carter did a good job with Ruth Johnson in the 100th episode, and I love Shirley telling him to “be a good soldier.”

Also iconic: Kerry playing Grace Jones music in her kitchen. Elizabeth’s speech at the M&M after she gave too much magnesium to the patient. (I honestly thought the patient had died; I forgot he had lived.) And Doug waking Mark with an air horn and in the next scene Kerry yelling to Carter “I am not your mother; now for the last time, get up!” I don’t want Kerry to wake me in the morning. 🤣

Also, I’m at the Amanda Lee arc now and after my brief foray into HR I’m wondering why County apparently does not do background checks on people. Of course this is the same ER-verse where Abby was getting interviewed for prestigious attending jobs at the best hospitals after she was about seven minutes sober so… 🤷‍♀️(And I’ll comment on that more when I’m back at the later seasons but no way with her behavior in S14 could she be so marketable and in demand that fast after rehab. Although I guess in this ER-verse there is also no job competition and the Abbys and Amanda Lees always come out ahead.) 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[WendyCR72]

And to think Mark Greene ended up married to Amanda Lee! (In real life. Anthony Edwards and Mare Winningham married in 2021.)

[Cliffw]

Amanda Lee being head of the ER was Anspaugh's call and he didn't suffer any consequences when everything hit the fan but years later when it was discovered that John Leguizamo's character was unfit for the job he was hired for, they were trying to fire Luka and it ended up leading to Weaver losing her position.  I know the 2 storylines were 7 years apart but that one was always weird to me. 

[wknt3]

55 minutes ago, Cliffw said:

Amanda Lee being head of the ER was Anspaugh's call and he didn't suffer any consequences when everything hit the fan but years later when it was discovered that John Leguizamo's character was unfit for the job he was hired for, they were trying to fire Luka and it ended up leading to Weaver losing her position.  I know the 2 storylines were 7 years apart but that one was always weird to me. 

I don't know. The old white guy with connections up the ying yang not suffering consequences sounds pretty normal to me...

[Notabug]

9 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Still working through the first half of S5.

Lucy speaking about Carter into her computer (is it supposed to be a Palm Pilot?) and Carter finding it is very much the 90s equivalent of talking trash about your job on social media and your boss finding out. I think her “hostile environment” claim was also a tad dramatic and the way she tried to challenge Carter to his face and accuse him of being defensive. Maybe there’s something about med school where that’s OK to do; I don’t know, but again I get why Carter is aggravated when Lucy is snapping at him telling him all the ways he’s terrible. I’d want to slap her or fail her myself for her big mouth. God she’s annoying me this time around. I stand on my opinion that she’s just as responsible for her mess if not more than Carter. 

I do think Carter did a good job with Ruth Johnson in the 100th episode, and I love Shirley telling him to “be a good soldier.”

Also iconic: Kerry playing Grace Jones music in her kitchen. Elizabeth’s speech at the M&M after she gave too much magnesium to the patient. (I honestly thought the patient had died; I forgot he had lived.) And Doug waking Mark with an air horn and in the next scene Kerry yelling to Carter “I am not your mother; now for the last time, get up!” I don’t want Kerry to wake me in the morning. 🤣

Also, I’m at the Amanda Lee arc now and after my brief foray into HR I’m wondering why County apparently does not do background checks on people. Of course this is the same ER-verse where Abby was getting interviewed for prestigious attending jobs at the best hospitals after she was about seven minutes sober so… 🤷‍♀️(And I’ll comment on that more when I’m back at the later seasons but no way with her behavior in S14 could she be so marketable and in demand that fast after rehab. Although I guess in this ER-verse there is also no job competition and the Abbys and Amanda Lees always come out ahead.) 

No, Lucy's behavior towards Carter was not the norm, nor was the way he treated her, although his was closer to the truth.  In fact, med students tend to be very respectful, even kind of meek, in the presence of their resident who is the person who will spend the most time and do the most teaching with them.  Both have a chance to evaluate one another at the end of the rotation as Carter did with Benton back in Season 1 and the resident will be counseled if a student has specific, valid complaints.  Valid complaint:  I asked a  medical question and he/she didn't respond.  He/she was constantly on their phone during rounds.  He/she criticized me for taking Adderall for my medical condition, ADHD. He/she asked me to pick up their dry cleaning, run out to Target for them.  Non-valid complaint:  He/she wouldn't answer my questions about their personal life.  He/she was too demanding, expecting me to be on time and prepared.  He/she reprimanded me for lying about having done a procedure I'd never done before.

[Heathen]

15 hours ago, Cliffw said:

Amanda Lee being head of the ER was Anspaugh's call and he didn't suffer any consequences when everything hit the fan but years later when it was discovered that John Leguizamo's character was unfit for the job he was hired for, they were trying to fire Luka and it ended up leading to Weaver losing her position.  I know the 2 storylines were 7 years apart but that one was always weird to me. 

Even better, Clemente WAS fit for the job. He was a great physician with a messy personal life, and later PTSD and sleep-related psychosis. Not at all like the "fake doctor Amanda Lee" thing. 

[Notabug]

13 hours ago, Heathen said:

Even better, Clemente WAS fit for the job. He was a great physician with a messy personal life, and later PTSD and sleep-related psychosis. Not at all like the "fake doctor Amanda Lee" thing. 

Yes, Clemente was an accomplished physician who had a proven track record and just happened to develop a medical condition while working at County.  Firing Kerry because he had a mental health problem would be like firing Kerry because he developed lung cancer.