All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Bastet]

Rachel bugged me at every age, but I don't have any trouble believing she got her shit together when she grew up.  How a teenager acts when shuffling between her two households means different states, not just different neighborhoods, with a stepparent in each and a baby in one, and then one parent is dying, can be quite different from how a young adult who's had some time to adjust acts.  Having not seen or heard anything about Rachel in the years between, her status in the series finale is perfectly plausible to me.

[Hiyo]

Yeah, I think it's plausible for her to change the way she did in-between the 7 years we didn't see her.

[Notabug]

37 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah, I think it's plausible for her to change the way she did in-between the 7 years we didn't see her.

I don't have much trouble with Rachel's transformation either.  I would hope that her mother got her some good counseling to help her come to grips with her life; but I think it is quite possible for a kid with her problems to straighten out.

Also, although she was kind of a bratty kid when she was little; I didn't see her as a budding sociopath back then.  She seemed like a typical kid whose parents let her say and do stuff that a lot of other parents (like mine) would not have tolerated.  Not her fault.

Her problems with Jen seem to have started with the onset of adolescence, a common time  for that kind of thing, and had only been going on a year or two by the end of the series.  She wasn't a hopeless case by any means.

[Cloud9Shopper]

My ER fanfic ideas well has kind of dried up for now and I was feeling the urge to do another rewatch since it’s been a little over a year since I finished the whole series. I just got done with the pilot tonight! 

I liked seeing the almost primitive feel of the hospital even though the actual set was built out after the pilot to my understanding. It felt so authentic with the intercom pages for the doctors (even calling Mark over the intercom about a phone call) and the random extras in the doctor’s lounge. The masks and face shields in traumas that went away at some point during the first season, I think. The layout of the suture room and one of the ORs not being an OR set we came to know.

I’d forgotten they used the Doug and Carol theme in the pilot, and I thought the foreshadowing to Carol being brought in was good when she seemed overwhelmed by everyone trying to get her attention. But I spotted the gaffe where they said her fiancé didn’t know what happened and that she was due to get married in June but in a few episodes from now, she’s just announcing her engagement and saying the wedding will be in May. I wonder if part of that was because she wasn’t supposed to live and her backstory got changed as a result. 

Frank! I kind of wish he had mentioned when he retuned in S6 that he was once treated in the ER for a GSW. Would have been a cool throwback.

Doing the whole series once was enough for me so I’ll be skipping episodes in this watch starting around S8 or so with the dumpster fire called Secrets and Lies. But in the meantime I’m looking forward to watching at least one episode every Thursday night and posting my thoughts. 

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

But I spotted the gaffe where they said her fiancé didn’t know what happened and that she was due to get married in June but in a few episodes from now, she’s just announcing her engagement and saying the wedding will be in May. I wonder if part of that was because she wasn’t supposed to live and her backstory got changed as a result. 

That's what makes sense, yes -- when she's slated to bite it at the end of the pilot, her having a fiancé is not given any thought beyond being included among the list of good things in her life causing confusion among those wondering why she was suicidal.  Once they were (inexplicably, IMO) taken with her and decided to have her miraculously survive, they had to turn that guy quickly referenced into an actual person, and decided to heighten the Carol/Doug tension by retconning him as a boyfriend, rather than a fiancé, so her deciding to marry someone else can be a thing we see Doug react to rather than something that has already happened before we even met any of these people.

[Notabug]

11 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

My ER fanfic ideas well has kind of dried up for now and I was feeling the urge to do I liked seeing the almost primitive feel of the hospital even though the actual set was built out after the pilot to my understanding. It felt so authentic with the intercom pages for the doctors (even calling Mark over the intercom about a phone call) and the random extras in the doctor’s lounge. The masks and face shields in traumas that went away at some point during the first season, I think. The layout of the suture room and one of the ORs not being an OR set we came to know.

Much of the ER pilot was filmed at a hospital (Linda Vista Hospital) that had closed a couple years earlier.  It was quicker and cheaper than building a fully outfitted ER set for a show that might not become a series.  When ER was greenlighted as a series, a set was built because, in the long run, it is cheaper and simpler to have the whole thing on the studio lot.  I think the studio set was based on the look of the hospital from the pilot, with various changes made for convenience or need

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But I spotted the gaffe where they said her fiancé didn’t know what happened and that she was due to get married in June but in a few episodes from now, she’s just announcing her engagement and saying the wedding will be in May

Yet, they kept some of the details of Tag's backstory in the first season.  At one point, Benton introduces Carter to Carol and then tells him her fiance is an orthopod who played football at a Big 10 school.  They kept those details for the series.

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Frank! I kind of wish he had mentioned when he retuned in S6 that he was once treated in the ER for a GSW. Would have been a cool throwback.

However, the guy in the pilot was a wife beater and I don't think they could've brought the character back with that in his story.  Frank was awful enough to his coworkers; knowing he was an abusive partner would've been a bridge too far.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Notabug said:

Frank was awful enough to his coworkers; knowing he was an abusive partner would've been a bridge too far.

Yeah, and it would have made even more unbelievable the ridiculous reveal that Frank is just sweet as pie at home with his wife and kid (and speaks so highly of the co-workers he spends all day being nasty to/about).

[Cloud9Shopper]

Watched 1x2 (Day One) and 1x3 (Going Home) tonight. 

1x2: I liked the ending to this one with Benton’s patient returning after he was discharged, but only having him come in at the end and never finding out how things turned out once he was brought back. I also enjoyed the wedding reception with accordion players that got moved to the waiting room and how nice it was to see the staff dancing together and having fun.

However, I could have lived without seeing Mark and Jen get it on in the bathroom.

1x3:

I appreciate how Carol comes back from her suicide attempt so much stronger and even willing to make fun of herself. It’s a good growth journey by the time the season ends and she’s joking and enjoying herself at her canceled wedding.

Rosemary Clooney! 

I had forgotten that Carter makes out in the radiology room with some random girl and that radiologist Steve had a little song when he discovered it. “S1, S2, S3, S4, keep the pelvis off the floor!” 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I had forgotten that Carter makes out in the radiology room with some random girl and that radiologist Steve had a little song when he discovered it. “S1, S2, S3, S4, keep the pelvis off the floor!” 

Got a kick out of that little jingle.

[CrazyInAlabama]

The part I did like about Mark and Jen in the restroom was Mark hitting the alarm button, and everyone charging in.     

My favorite part of all time was when it was snowing, and the staff put a leg cast on Carter as a prank.   Then, when the massive accident happened, the biker grabbed the cast saw and took it off for him.  

Adding, after reading Cattoy's post, I love Bob coming to the rescue with the vascular surgery.   I forgot about that scene.  (I believe that someone on here posted a long time ago that the actress who played Bob couldn't stay after her few episodes, because she had a conflict with another role.  )

Edited November 2, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The part I did like about Mark and Jen in the restroom was Mark hitting the alarm button, and everyone charging in.     

My favorite part of all time was when it was snowing, and the staff put a leg cast on Carter as a prank.   Then, when the massive accident happened, the biker grabbed the cast saw and took it off for him.  

Blizzard!  My all-time favorite episode.  It had everything: humor, camaraderie, shenanigans and then plenty of trauma and drama.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The part I did like about Mark and Jen in the restroom was Mark hitting the alarm button, and everyone charging in.     

My favorite part of all time was when it was snowing, and the staff put a leg cast on Carter as a prank.   Then, when the massive accident happened, the biker grabbed the cast saw and took it off for him.  

I loved when everyone closed the bathroom door on Mark and immediately proceeded to laugh hysterically. 

Looking forward to seeing Blizzard again in seven episodes, especially since it marks the first appearance of Hicks. 

[Cattoy]

6 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

My favorite part of all time was when it was snowing, and the staff put a leg cast on Carter as a prank.   Then, when the massive accident happened, the biker grabbed the cast saw and took it off for him.  

I loved "Blizzard" on so many levels. So many great moments, but Bob coming to the rescue was a big one for me.

Okay, caught a bit of the episode was Malucci was fired. Weaver mentioned he'd been before the review committee for 5 prior offenses and failed 2 rotations before her firing him. What would happen to him in real life? Would he have a hard time getting hired at another hospital?

[Cloud9Shopper]

16 minutes ago, Cattoy said:

I loved "Blizzard" on so many levels. So many great moments, but Bob coming to the rescue was a big one for me.

Okay, caught a bit of the episode was Malucci was fired. Weaver mentioned he'd been before the review committee for 5 prior offenses and failed 2 rotations before her firing him. What would happen to him in real life? Would he have a hard time getting hired at another hospital?

I’ll let @Notabug take this one but considering other doctors like Doug and Abby had no issue getting hired elsewhere after the County universe (Doug after he broke the rules all the time until the Ricky Abbott death and Abby getting hired and recruited by top private hospitals less than a year sober and practically fresh out of rehab) I wouldn’t find it too far fetched if Malucci also ended up somewhere else.

[Notabug]

57 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I’ll let @Notabug take this one but considering other doctors like Doug and Abby had no issue getting hired elsewhere after the County universe (Doug after he broke the rules all the time until the Ricky Abbott death and Abby getting hired and recruited by top private hospitals less than a year sober and practically fresh out of rehab) I wouldn’t find it too far fetched if Malucci also ended up somewhere else.

The big difference was that Doug and Abby weren't residents at the time, or, at least, nearly done with their residencies.  Unless a doctor completes his or her residency and becomes board eligible/board certified, employment opportunities would be very limited. 

I'm not sure it was really clear how long Malucci had to go to finish the residency, but I think he had at least a year.  So, he was going to have to find an ER residency someplace in the US, that just happened to have an open residency slot in the third or fourth year that was willing to take him.  Residencies are not employment per se, they are considered to be part of the educational experience, so the rules are different as to who gets hired or fired and limits on the number of residents at any given level. The national association that controls ER residencies undoubtedly has guidelines that have to be followed when a resident has competency issues which would be why Malucci had more oversight on the job than the others.  

It is possible to change residencies, it happens all the time, usually, though, it is someone who started out in one area and then decided they wanted to specialize in something else. Like Carter did.  His trajectory was fairly similar to what I've seen except for all the public squabbling with Anspaugh.  A resident decides on another specialty, checks around to see if there's a position available in the hospital where they're already training and where they already know people and have connections.  Since a residency is education and not standard employment, the new program has to have an opening at the level at which the new guy is at.  Unlike Carter who started over as an intern, most people are able to transfer their prior experience to the new place, especially since internship usually involves rotating through various services outside the chosen specialty anyway,  In real life, Carter would've done some inpatient medicine, maybe an ER rotation or even gynecology, ICU, or anesthesia during his surgical internship; all of which could easily fit into the ER curriculum,

Malucci, without that residency certificate, could do office work or, more likely, work at an urgent care or the like.  He couldn't get an ER job without his certificate.  Just like in other jobs, County would probably only be willing to verify the dates he was there; employers don't discuss the reasons for firing someone with potential new employers/residencies.  Presuming he had a decent professional relationship with some of his attendings, he could probably get letters of recommendation from them and perhaps one of them knows a program director someplace and could put in a good word for him since he would be looking for a job outside the match which is just for first year positions.  There's always the behind-the-scenes stuff that helps a lot in these situations.

I've only known two people who were asked to leave residencies.  In one case, the guy was grossly incompetent, lazy actually, and, after multiple counseling sessions over the 2 year period he did not change.  He ended up working as a doc in the local prison infirmary.  I worked with an OB/GYN resident who was asked to leave after her second year.  She had some mental health issues and frequently would simply not show up at work for a week or two and expected others to pick up the slack.  Then, when she'd return, she ignored all the sacrifices that others had made to accommodate her situation and instead complain about her workload, which was no worse than anyone else'.  Then she'd lecture us on mental health and our lack of empathy for her disease. Residency is HARD, y'all.  She also tended to be argumentative with the attendings, some of who were not all that appreciative of a junior resident telling them how to manage their patients. especially when she had an attitude.  The final straw for her was when one of the attendings, a very good one who was great to the residents, was busy on Labor and Delivery in the middle of the night.  A patient of his was in the ER and needed seen; this was ALWAYS the job of the junior resident.  He personally asked her to see the patient, she told him she was too busy, he needed to handle it himself.  When he pointed out that that was not the way things worked; she threw a clipboard at him.  Way to get fired.  She left, was away from medicine for 2 years doing something or other and later was able to finish her OB/GYN residency at another hospital.  Hopefully, after lots and lots of therapy.  When she finished, she went into practice doing gynecology only, no obstetrics, presumably so she could sleep at night to prevent meltdowns.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Notabug

[Hiyo]

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but Bob coming to the rescue was a big one for me.

Too bad they never followed up on her story. It could have been interesting to see her story, and it's something many educated immigrants have had to deal with in terms of jobs and careers.

[Bastet]

15 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Too bad they never followed up on her story. It could have been interesting to see her story, and it's something many educated immigrants have had to deal with in terms of jobs and careers.

I had first become aware of that as a kid in the '70s, upon learning our neighbor had been a medical doctor in "the old country", asking why in the world she was not working as one here, and getting quite the lesson in immigration.  It's unfortunate Bob's story was for comedic effect leading to an unexpected dramatic reveal and then thoroughly ignored.

[Notabug]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I had first become aware of that as a kid in the '70s, upon learning our neighbor had been a medical doctor in "the old country", asking why in the world she was not working as one here, and getting quite the lesson in immigration.  It's unfortunate Bob's story was for comedic effect leading to an unexpected dramatic reveal and then thoroughly ignored.

The US requires foreign medical graduates to repeat their residency training in the US before practicing, not just the internship Elizabeth did, the whole thing.  It would've been terrific to see Bob return as a resident or, perhaps, go to school to become a PA or some other medical professional so she could work in the US.

I work with a nurse midwife (bachelor's in nursing, masters in midwifery) who is from the Ukraine.  Back there, she was a physician.  Why didn't she work as a doctor here?  Because it would've taken too many years of training to get to work again as a doc; midwifery was quicker and she was a single parent who had a lot of relatives back home she wanted to help.  One of them was her younger sister who she brought to the US as a teen and who is now an MD herself.  My friend is an excellent midwife and I'm sure would be an excellent doctor had she done that here.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Notabug

[Soobs]

I'm watching the series in it's entirety for the first time although I watched many episodes when it originally aired. I just finished Season 7 and it seems like that was the jump the shark season or at least the beginning of it. Every episode has a mass shooting (in a foster care facility of course), a train wreck, a riot, a jumper, a crane falling into the ER etc... I made the last one up but you can't even tell! The earlier seasons had all that stuff but didn't rely on it so heavily.

Some thoughts - I love Sally Field and it was a great surprise to see her but all the yelling and screaming and shrieking she does was a lot. Abby is not mature enough to be a doctor on this show and that's saying a lot!

When Carol went to Seattle to surprise Doug I really expected him to be with another woman. Why were we to think he'd grown up when he never visited his kids once? Did Carol not want him to visit? They were a weird couple.

When Mark let the mass shooter die in the elevator, his fate felt sealed. I doubt he'll make it out of Season 8. Brain tumor will come back or a piano will fall on him or something. I like him and Elizabeth together. I'm rooting for them.

The writers did a lot of good work using story lines to talk about timely issues. Sometimes it's handled a little clumsily and sometimes they were ahead of their time. At least they tried though.

I can't believe I'm only halfway through the series! There are so many seasons. Please tell me there's still some good episodes ahead.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Soobs said:

I'm watching the series in it's entirety for the first time although I watched many episodes when it originally aired. I just finished Season 7 and it seems like that was the jump the shark season or at least the beginning of it. Every episode has a mass shooting (in a foster care facility of course), a train wreck, a riot, a jumper, a crane falling into the ER etc... I made the last one up but you can't even tell! The earlier seasons had all that stuff but didn't rely on it so heavily.

Some thoughts - I love Sally Field and it was a great surprise to see her but all the yelling and screaming and shrieking she does was a lot. Abby is not mature enough to be a doctor on this show and that's saying a lot!

When Carol went to Seattle to surprise Doug I really expected him to be with another woman. Why were we to think he'd grown up when he never visited his kids once? Did Carol not want him to visit? They were a weird couple.

When Mark let the mass shooter die in the elevator, his fate felt sealed. I doubt he'll make it out of Season 8. Brain tumor will come back or a piano will fall on him or something. I like him and Elizabeth together. I'm rooting for them.

The writers did a lot of good work using story lines to talk about timely issues. Sometimes it's handled a little clumsily and sometimes they were ahead of their time. At least they tried though.

I can't believe I'm only halfway through the series! There are so many seasons. Please tell me there's still some good episodes ahead.

Good news: There are still good episodes ahead.

Bad news: (IMO!) They are all in S15 - the final season (when much of the original cast returns).

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Soobs said:

I'm watching the series in it's entirety for the first time although I watched many episodes when it originally aired. I just finished Season 7 and it seems like that was the jump the shark season or at least the beginning of it. Every episode has a mass shooting (in a foster care facility of course), a train wreck, a riot, a jumper, a crane falling into the ER etc... I made the last one up but you can't even tell! The earlier seasons had all that stuff but didn't rely on it so heavily.

Some thoughts - I love Sally Field and it was a great surprise to see her but all the yelling and screaming and shrieking she does was a lot. Abby is not mature enough to be a doctor on this show and that's saying a lot!

When Carol went to Seattle to surprise Doug I really expected him to be with another woman. Why were we to think he'd grown up when he never visited his kids once? Did Carol not want him to visit? They were a weird couple.

When Mark let the mass shooter die in the elevator, his fate felt sealed. I doubt he'll make it out of Season 8. Brain tumor will come back or a piano will fall on him or something. I like him and Elizabeth together. I'm rooting for them.

The writers did a lot of good work using story lines to talk about timely issues. Sometimes it's handled a little clumsily and sometimes they were ahead of their time. At least they tried though.

I can't believe I'm only halfway through the series! There are so many seasons. Please tell me there's still some good episodes ahead.

Welcome to our crazy club! You’re in good company with your Abby thoughts. This seems to be the only ER space on the Internet where people aren’t fawning all over how amazing and relatable to the entire world she is. 

Carol did say at some point in S6 (don’t remember which episode) that “Doug’s been seeing them” and that the twins’ last name was Ross. But I could never understand why she told him not to come to begin with and then played up the whole “woe is me I’m a single mother” card. I guess it was a writing choice given that George Clooney was done with the show but odd nonetheless.

Mark and Elizabeth are one of my favorite couples on ER. 

The show does get rough after S8. Everyone will have different opinions but for me S9-11 are tolerable but the quality drop off is noticeable, S12-14 are the worst parts of the show, and S15 ends well. And unless you end up really liking Abby and she becomes your favorite character, I’ve got bad news if you thought her mother was annoying… 

[Hiyo]

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You’re in good company with your Abby thoughts. This seems to be the only ER space on the Internet where people aren’t fawning all over how amazing and relatable to the entire world she is. 

I like Abby and find he relatable at times.

Quote

I guess it was a writing choice given that George Clooney was done with the show but odd nonetheless.

Was Juliana pregnant in real life at the same time and they couldn't hide it so they had to make Carol pregnant as well?

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I like Abby and find he relatable at times.

Was Juliana pregnant in real life at the same time and they couldn't hide it so they had to make Carol pregnant as well?

No, Julianna was not pregnant. Maybe the show just thought the twin pregnancy would be a bone for Doug/Carol 'shippers since George Clooney decided to leave the show to focus on his movie career.

[Notabug]

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I like Abby and find he relatable at times.

Was Juliana pregnant in real life at the same time and they couldn't hide it so they had to make Carol pregnant as well?

Nope. It was the writers' decision to make Carol pregnant.  There had been an ongoing plotline about Doug and Carol wanting to start a family and Carol ordering her own bloodwork to assess her fertility through her clinic.  It was also the writers' decision to have Doug move all the way across the country and for Carol to fax him with news of what was essentially a planned pregnancy.  Then, to have her refuse to even call him when she was in labor but instead, to wait until hours after she delivered to even let him know.

So many dumb decision in this storyline.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Notabug

[Soobs]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:33 PM, Notabug said:

Malucci, without that residency certificate, could do office work or, more likely, work at an urgent care or the like.

Ha! I have totally met Malucci types while seeking medical treatment at urgent care.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:33 PM, Notabug said:

Unlike Carter who started over as an intern, most people are able to transfer their prior experience to the new place, especially since internship usually involves rotating through various services outside the chosen specialty anyway,  In real life, Carter would've done some inpatient medicine, maybe an ER rotation or even gynecology, ICU, or anesthesia during his surgical internship; all of which could easily fit into the ER curriculum,

How would that have worked with Mark. If I remember the timing he was close to finishing his residency and being recruited at that fancy private clinic where he took a tour. But his specialty was emergency medicine and I don't think that clinic had an ER so how would that work? 

[Notabug]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

How would that have worked with Mark. If I remember the timing he was close to finishing his residency and being recruited at that fancy private clinic where he took a tour. But his specialty was emergency medicine and I don't think that clinic had an ER so how would that work? 

In the real world, it wouldn't.  I remember watching that episode the first time around and wondering what they were doing there.  He was obviously interviewing at a private practice, probably internal medicine or family practice. As an ER residency graduate, Mark would not have the training or experience to do outpatient practice of general medicine and, in a city like Chicago, there are literally dozens of people finishing internal medicine residencies who would be lining up to interview for what was supposed to be a cushy, well paying job.

They could've shown Mark interviewing for an ER job at a fancy suburban hospital; I guess that wasn't glamorous enough for the writers.  Having worked at both county hospitals and private hospitals; I can tell you the county hospital was just as nice as the private ones from what I saw.  It was not true that county employed docs made a fraction of what other docs did or put up with poorer conditions and lack of staff.  Those can be problems anywhere.  Certainly the clientele can be different in the suburbs compared to the inner city and there might be more victims of violence seen in the city, but there are a lot of non-county hospitals in the inner city, too.  I work for a huge private hospital system in Ohio and the ER at the flagship hospital is smack dab in the inner city in a neighborhood that is no better than the one where the County hospital is found.  Patients and EMT's go to the nearest hospital when they want care; they don't drive past half a dozen other inner city hospitals to go to the public hospital.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I watched Hit and Run and Into that Good Night from S1 tonight. I have to say that I really like Dr. Langworthy who Benton was kind of rivals with. I wish she had stuck around even though I know Hicks is coming soon and I love her too.

Carter’s subplot of having to use the high school yearbook to look up the dead kid’s picture and call the school seemed a little too far fetched, but I could be wrong. Also thought it was pretty fascinating to go back to the days when cell phones played havoc on hospital equipment. Nice touch.

I do end up liking Doug and Carol as a ship eventually, but Doug was so brain dead with her in early S1 trying to win her back over.

Into that Good Night is a great early ep with the heart transplant plot being so well done, but now that I’m in my 30s, I can’t believe how dense Mark was over Jen’s job offer. She was so excited about it and he really should have been more supportive and tried to at least understand what a great opportunity it was. I work in the legal field in a talent acquisition role; those clerkships and other internships with judges are nothing to sneeze at. Law is also a really competitive field as a whole; we had a hard enough time picking summer associates recently. It really came down to small points on each of our decisions, and we picked one person part because she had interned with a judge. You’d think Mark could at least understand that much about such a coveted job since I’d imagine a residency and a chief residency spot is similarly competitive. (Of course, being the chief resident was treated as almost a joke later in the series but that’s another topic.) 

I generally like Mark and see him as the heart of the show but this was not one of his smarter moves. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:09 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

generally like Mark and see him as the heart of the show but this was not one of his smarter moves. 

Mark was pretty clueless when it came to relationships 

[Soobs]

On 11/2/2022 at 3:47 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Welcome to our crazy club! You’re in good company with your Abby thoughts. This seems to be the only ER space on the Internet where people aren’t fawning all over how amazing and relatable to the entire world she is. 

Carol did say at some point in S6 (don’t remember which episode) that “Doug’s been seeing them” and that the twins’ last name was Ross. But I could never understand why she told him not to come to begin with and then played up the whole “woe is me I’m a single mother” card. I guess it was a writing choice given that George Clooney was done with the show but odd nonetheless.

Mark and Elizabeth are one of my favorite couples on ER. 

The show does get rough after S8. Everyone will have different opinions but for me S9-11 are tolerable but the quality drop off is noticeable, S12-14 are the worst parts of the show, and S15 ends well. And unless you end up really liking Abby and she becomes your favorite character, I’ve got bad news if you thought her mother was annoying… 

Yeah, I'm already getting tired of Abby's non stop problems and inability to deal with them herself. As long as they don't bring back Susan's sister I'll keep watching. I can't stand that character.

I just finished season 8 with Mark dying. I can't believe they killed him off and still kept going for 7 more seasons! I thought Rachel was a pretty normal teen considering what was going on. But the ecstasy story line was a little unbelievable. Can a 9 month old really dig around in a purse and open a pill pack? The ending with Mark's dying images of his family and the ER was nicely done.

Did not like the sexual harassment episode. Carter stating he lost his virginity at 11?! And then the other docs just laugh it off?!? Um, he was abused, which kind of makes sense when you look at how he deals with power and romance.

[Cloud9Shopper]

19 minutes ago, Soobs said:

Yeah, I'm already getting tired of Abby's non stop problems and inability to deal with them herself. As long as they don't bring back Susan's sister I'll keep watching. I can't stand that character.

I just finished season 8 with Mark dying. I can't believe they killed him off and still kept going for 7 more seasons! I thought Rachel was a pretty normal teen considering what was going on. But the ecstasy story line was a little unbelievable. Can a 9 month old really dig around in a purse and open a pill pack? The ending with Mark's dying images of his family and the ER was nicely done.

Did not like the sexual harassment episode. Carter stating he lost his virginity at 11?! And then the other docs just laugh it off?!? Um, he was abused, which kind of makes sense when you look at how he deals with power and romance.

I hate Secrets and Lies. Nobody really looked good in it except for Kerry who rightfully reamed them when she caught them snooping in the sex toys and Gallant, who seemed to just be an innocent bystander. I watched it when I was in my first full watch on Hulu and hated it just as much as I did in 2002. I skip it now. 

I watched Chicago Heat from S1 last night when Chloe first shows up and I still admire Susan for staying sane despite having such a crazy sister. 

For me, the real end of the show is when Carter leaves at the end of S11 and the final season is just a bonus. I can tolerate season 9 but started to get annoyed at the drop off in quality around S10 or S11. 

Can’t wait to see what you think of the rest of the series! :) 

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Soobs said:

Yeah, I'm already getting tired of Abby's non stop problems and inability to deal with them herself. As long as they don't bring back Susan's sister I'll keep watching. I can't stand that character.

Since you've finished Season 8, you're safe.  Not from Abby, but from Chloe.  Abby eats the show once Mark is gone.  Alas.

Secrets and Lies is possibly one of the worst episodes of television ever produced, ever.  Horrible episode with most of the cast behaving like they're in junior high.  I have been a medical student, a resident and then an attending physician for more than 40 years.  There is plenty of off-color joking, but I have never, ever seen grown adults hold a contest to see who was youngest when they lost their virginity.  Nor have I ever known anyone who found the idea of a 25 year old molesting an 11 year old to be funny.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Notabug

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Notabug said:

Nor have I ever known anyone who found the idea of a 25 year old molesting an 11 year old to be funny.

And they're all mandated reporters -- if an 11-year-old patient came in and they found out he'd been sexually assaulted by a 25-year-old, they'd notify CPS.  Yet Carter's story about what happened to him at that age was funny to them?

I might have seen that episode during the original run, but don't remember it, and I missed it during my Pop re-watch -- something I've never felt the need to rectify, as just reading about it sickens me.

[Cloud9Shopper]

You’re not missing much @Bastet.

Continued my foray through S1 tonight by finishing Another Perfect Day, and then 9 1/2 Hours and ER Confidential. Chloe’s raging meltdown in Another Perfect Day where she breaks the glass reminded me of what we’re going to get from Abby’s mother (ugh) in six seasons time. I’d honestly forgotten Chloe did that. But I did like the scene of Carter and Susan on the roof and him trying to cheer her up for her birthday.

I haven’t seen ER Confidential in maybe three or four years, so Carter’s scene on the roof with the transgender patient hit hard. I did think that he and Benton were as respectful as they could be with the patient. 

Carol is really a toxic partner in the early seasons. She’s slept with someone else twice when she’s in a serious relationship, with Doug now in S1 when she’s with Tag and then in S4 when she’s with Doug and kisses the paramedic. I have to remind myself she matures eventually and they end up happy but it’s a rough road there. Not saying Doug and Tag are saints but she doesn’t help the situation.

Finally, I’m going to need to bleach my eyes after all the Mark and Jen sex scenes in this season and I can’t take his dismissiveness of her career much longer. I think I notice it more now because of my day job (whereas I didn’t put that much thought into it during my first watch and any reruns I saw on cable as a teenager) and I totally get Jen’s point when she says her job and the work she’s doing is make it or break it. 

I should get to Blizzard on Thursday and I am very excited for that! 

[Bastet]

2 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I haven’t seen ER Confidential in maybe three or four years, so Carter’s scene on the roof with the transgender patient hit hard. I did think that he and Benton were as respectful as they could be with the patient. 

The best that can be said for any ER employee in that episode is Carter is the least offensive.  And he really is, for his time.  With Benton, the era is not an excuse, and that's even more true for the nurse (I don't remember which one) who called the patient a "he-she" or something disgusting like that.

4 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Carol is really a toxic partner in the early seasons. She’s slept with someone else twice when she’s in a serious relationship, with Doug now in S1 when she’s with Tag and then in S4 when she’s with Doug and kisses the paramedic. I have to remind myself she matures eventually and they end up happy but it’s a rough road there. Not saying Doug and Tag are saints but she doesn’t help the situation.

The only thing I liked about Carol and Doug riding off into the sunset rainy PNW together is that they were both hideous as romantic partners, so coupling meant they wouldn't each impose their bullshit on others anymore.

6 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I can’t take his dismissiveness of her career much longer. I think I notice it more now because of my day job (whereas I didn’t put that much thought into it during my first watch and any reruns I saw on cable as a teenager) and I totally get Jen’s point when she says her job and the work she’s doing is make it or break it.

The way they propped Mark up by making Jen a cheater was hideous, because we'd seen all the ways in which she was expected to put her career second in perpetuity -- an attitude at its most egregious when he didn't acknowledge the astronomical importance of a federal clerkship.

I turned one down - and at the appellate level - after extensive deliberation led me to decide that while that would be an astronomically stupid thing to do for 98% of career paths, the "lesser" offer I had was actually better for my particular trajectory.  I don't regret it, but I got a metric shit ton of side eyes, because that's how much a game changer it is.  They never properly explained that to the audience, resulting in an abundance of ridiculous "Who would take a job in a different city than her husband?" finger-pointing --- which, of course, was exactly where they wanted our sympathies to lie.  Nope.  Team Jen. 

[Soobs]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

The best that can be said for any ER employee in that episode is Carter is the least offensive.  And he really is, for his time.  With Benton, the era is not an excuse, and that's even more true for the nurse (I don't remember which one) who called the patient a "he-she" or something disgusting like that.

The only thing I liked about Carol and Doug riding off into the sunset rainy PNW together is that they were both hideous as romantic partners, so coupling meant they wouldn't each impose their bullshit on others anymore.

Oh, god that he/she slur comes up a few times. There's others that are less egregious like talk around gangbangers, but still so much cringe.

I felt for Carol and Doug's kids. Imagine that's your standard of a healthy relationship. At least there was two of them so they could compare notes as to how weird their parents are.

Yeah, Jen being portrayed as a cold, calculated career woman was some leftover 80's/ 20th century bs.

[Cloud9Shopper]

5 hours ago, Soobs said:

I felt for Carol and Doug's kids. Imagine that's your standard of a healthy relationship. At least there was two of them so they could compare notes as to how weird their parents are.

For Carol’s flaws, I never did think she was a bad parent to the twins. (Although the writing change where she acted like a single mother in poverty for months on end made no sense considering how long she and Doug planned for a family.) She did seem to love them, want to spend time with them, and generally gave them a good life. 

There’s a worse parenting example in the main cast coming in a few seasons’ time that will make Doug look like Father of the Year. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

For Carol’s flaws, I never did think she was a bad parent to the twins. (Although the writing change where she acted like a single mother in poverty for months on end made no sense considering how long she and Doug planned for a family.) . 

Speaking of Carol being broke all the time, like how much would an ER nurse manager at a major city hospital make in those days? I mean they always acted like the manager job was a pain in the ass but wouldn't a manager of a hospital that big be paid fairly well?

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

The best that can be said for any ER employee in that episode is Carter is the least offensive.  And he really is, for his time.  With Benton, the era is not an excuse, and that's even more true for the nurse (I don't remember which one) who called the patient a "he-she" or something disgusting like that.

The only transgender case I remember from my rewatch is when Alexandra Billings showed up and the staff were surprised that she was a transgender woman. And I imagine that when the episode came out the intention was to so surprise the audience, but since Alexandra Billings is a much more famous actress now it was hardly a surprise at all.

[Notabug]

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Speaking of Carol being broke all the time, like how much would an ER nurse manager at a major city hospital make in those days? I mean they always acted like the manager job was a pain in the ass but wouldn't a manager of a hospital that big be paid fairly well?

The only transgender case I remember from my rewatch is when Alexandra Billings showed up and the staff were surprised that she was a transgender woman. And I imagine that when the episode came out the intention was to so surprise the audience, but since Alexandra Billings is a much more famous actress now it was hardly a surprise at all.

ER nurse managers in Chicago make a nice living and Carol should not have been impoverished. Nowadays, a nurse manager would make somewhere between mid 80's to mid 90's.  Not poverty wages.  She purchased her house at a good price and did  a lot of work on it in the years before she got pregnant.  Her mortgage should've been very reasonable.  As I recall, Carol also didn't own a car until she went with Luka to purchase a used one on her day off right before she decided to leave; so it's not like she had a large car payment, either.  ER liked to pretend that the docs and nurses there were working practically for free.  Nope.

ER Confidential had Vondie Curtis-Hall playing a transgender woman who was getting older and having difficulty passing as a woman due to it.  She had been involved in a MVA and was brought to the ER where Carter and Benton took care of her.  It seemed like part of the staff's issue was that the woman didn't 'look like' a woman; which is still dam*ed insensitive.  Carter listened to her explain her sadness about aging and ending up alone while he stitched her up, but nobody seemed to realize that her car crash was a suicide attempt until she went to the roof and tried to jump.  The entire staff completely missed every important detail about this patient.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Notabug

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The only transgender case I remember from my rewatch is when Alexandra Billings showed up and the staff were surprised that she was a transgender woman.

We're talking about the one with Vondie Curtis-Hall.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 minute ago, Bastet said:

We're talking about the one with Vondie Curtis-Hall.

Who also came back in S8 as new Roger and even directed an episode or two. (I didn’t realize he had directed until I caught his name with the credit.)

[Cloud9Shopper]

Just watched Blizzard, and it still holds up so well. I would have loved to have seen other moments in the series with the staff having a ball in the empty waiting room. And I love Hicks so I’m happy to see her make her debut. 

I liked the exchange between Radiologist Steve and Doug:

Steve: “I haven’t done stitches since I was an intern.”

Doug: “It’s just like riding a bike.”

Steve: “I haven’t done that since I was six.” 

I was thinking about Bob’s plot when watching New Amsterdam a couple seasons ago, as they did something similar, although the character there gave someone magnesium for a heart issue, if I remember correctly, and later revealed she had been a doctor in Pakistan. She was driving Uber while she got ready for her boards. 

I had on my weekly ER podcast this morning and they’re up to Sailing Away when Carter and Abby go rescue Maggie. I honestly can’t believe how foolish Abby was by believing that her and Carter bringing Maggie back from across the country in a car was a smart idea. In this case, Luka was right; Maggie needed to be hospitalized sooner rather than later. I can’t stand Abby’s insistence that she always knows everything over doctors that actually practice in a speciality area, whether it’s thinking she’s a psychiatrist when it comes to her mother or believing she knows more than an OB and a neonatology doctor when she’s having Joe and then later when he’s in the NICU. It’s OK to not be an expert all the time, Abby! 

I kind of feel like too that she enjoyed having Carter and Luka at her beck and call, ready to kiss her ass and bend over backwards for her no matter what.

Wish we had seen Ella be born, though. I wonder why they did that offscreen. 

[Notabug]

13 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

’ had on my weekly ER podcast this morning and they’re up to Sailing Away when Carter and Abby go rescue Maggie. I honestly can’t believe how foolish Abby was by believing that her and Carter bringing Maggie back from across the country in a car was a smart idea. In this case, Luka was right; Maggie needed to be hospitalized sooner rather than later. I can’t stand Abby’s insistence that she always knows everything over doctors that actually practice in a speciality area, whether it’s thinking she’s a psychiatrist when it comes to her mother or believing she knows more than an OB and a neonatology doctor when she’s having Joe and then later when he’s in the NICU. It’s OK to not be an expert all the time, Abby! 

I kind of feel like too that she enjoyed having Carter and Luka at her beck and call, ready to kiss her ass and bend over backwards for her no matter what.

Wish we had seen Ella be born, though. I wonder why they did that offscreen. 

And, yet, Abby never learns her lesson and, just a few years later, she's on a cross country wild goose chase after her brother.  She truly lacks common sense.

I think we didn't see Ella born because AK, like Ming Na, was also pregnant at the time.  I believe Alex had a rougher pregnancy, took some extra time off and wasn't available/didn't want to do a birth episode.  She may have returned to England to deliver, I think.

[Cloud9Shopper]

20 minutes ago, Notabug said:

And, yet, Abby never learns her lesson and, just a few years later, she's on a cross country wild goose chase after her brother.  She truly lacks common sense.

I think this is why over time I feel less and less empathy for her. We all make dumb decisions and mistakes sometimes, sure, and so do other characters, but she was consistently self-destructive, always believed she knew everything, and I never really saw any growth or desire to fix her life from her. She wasn’t even mature enough in her last episode to be more straightforward about leaving. By the time she relapsed I couldn’t even care or feel bad for her. She was going on drinking binges while she had a child in her care, no less; sorry no sympathy from me. (Plus it didn’t help that ER was a pretty lousy show at that point and probably should have ended 3-4 years earlier than it did. I was just biding time until I could see all the old cast members in S15.)

[Notabug]

23 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think this is why over time I feel less and less empathy for her. We all make dumb decisions and mistakes sometimes, sure, and so do other characters, but she was consistently self-destructive, always believed she knew everything, and I never really saw any growth or desire to fix her life from her. She wasn’t even mature enough in her last episode to be more straightforward about leaving. By the time she relapsed I couldn’t even care or feel bad for her. She was going on drinking binges while she had a child in her care, no less; sorry no sympathy from me. (Plus it didn’t help that ER was a pretty lousy show at that point and probably should have ended 3-4 years earlier than it did. I was just biding time until I could see all the old cast members in S15.)

Not only did Abby never learn a lesson, it seemed like her coworkers didn't either when it came to her.  Despite the many times she browbeat and bullied them until she got her own way, often against her attendings' wishes and the patient's best interest, everyone in the ER constantly praised her to the high heavens as the epitome of a stellar nurse, outstanding medical student, exemplary intern and superior resident.  In real life, people as generally nasty as Abby eventually get called out for their many mistakes as well as their less than professional behavior.  I've worked with people who got reprimanded for attitude issues who were far less abrasive and more competent than Abby.

[txhorns79]

On 11/9/2022 at 8:14 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

The only transgender case I remember from my rewatch is when Alexandra Billings showed up and the staff were surprised that she was a transgender woman. And I imagine that when the episode came out the intention was to so surprise the audience, but since Alexandra Billings is a much more famous actress now it was hardly a surprise at all.

I recall a later season episode where a father and his daughter were in a car accident, and it was revealed the girl was transgender.  The father had divorced the mother over the issue.  The father dies and the mom shows up and is awful.  She makes the girl cut her hair and dress like a boy.  It was a much more nuanced episode than the one from the first season.  

[Heathen]

On 11/9/2022 at 6:49 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

There’s a worse parenting example in the main cast coming in a few seasons’ time that will make Doug look like Father of the Year. 

Somebody whose maiden name was Wyszenski? Or Taggart? 

[Cloud9Shopper]

11 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Somebody whose maiden name was Wyszenski? Or Taggart? 

Both but we can leave it to the viewers to decide who was worse. ;) 

I’m still back in the happy place of S1 and won’t be watching some of those later episodes again. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[littlebennysmom]

34 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Somebody whose maiden name was Wyszenski? Or Taggart? 

"Alex, put down that body part, you little scamp!"

Taggart's the worst, hands down.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, Sam's little darling burned down an apartment house, kept letting his sperm donor into the apartment, ran wild, no consequences for anything.