The Closer - General Discussion

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Pope had no problem using Brenda to cover up things he didn't want made public. Taylor was also horrible to her when she joined  the LAPD. They never paid any price for their behavior.

But Pope and Taylor did reap plenty of regrets while trying to undermine Brenda.😉

[Bastet]

Taylor was just 100% a snake (until right before the transition from one series to another, when he knew he had Asst. Chief in the bag - it was part of the deal Pope brokered to keep Major Crimes intact and with Brenda in charge - and he actually joined Sharon in running interference for Brenda [but, of course, only because it was also going to benefit him]), but what I greatly enjoyed about Pope's dynamic with Brenda is that she used him just as much as he used her.  Their prior relationship meant they sometimes had blind spots where the other was concerned, but also that they were very comfortable manipulating each other.  It was interesting.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Bastet

[Raja]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:42 PM, shapeshifter said:

But Pope and Taylor did reap plenty of regrets while trying to undermine Brenda.😉

Well not personal regrets especially after the first deal to make Captain into Commander Taylor when the Lieutenant in position as a squad leader that they had to call Chief Johnson used the power that comes with the rank. A power which others were told would not be used in order to get around the city's rules at the time of the production.

In the end when Chief Johnson was forced into retirement Chief's Pope and Taylor continued to rise in the LAPD after the death of Chief Delk.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Raja
Pop"e"

[Spartan Girl]

Brenda’s parents were so much fun. I hate how they killed her mom off after red herring us with her dad’s health problems. That just wasn’t fair.

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Brenda’s parents were so much fun. I hate how they killed her mom off after red herring us with her dad’s health problems. That just wasn’t fair.

Yes, I hated it.
I think everyone hated it. 
We were supposed to hate it.
But it was excellent acting and directing, and was a believable reason for Brenda to have significant character development at an age when many don't.
And, at least there were only 2 more episodes in the series. 

[Bastet]

23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Didn’t mean to imply that it did. But I will never shed any tears for Baylor, and I can’t bring myself to feel that bad for his family

(Weird; this didn't show up for me until now.)

Oh, my refusal to shrug off an extrajudicial execution because he did a disgusting thing first does not extend to crying over him, either, that's for sure.

I do feel sorry for his mom, though, losing two sons right in a row like that - the second while she'd barely even begun to process that the first one was killed in a case of mistaken identity for the second - and having her own driveway and fence stained with the evidence of one son's murder.  (I appreciate the mention what she wanted to do with the settlement money was move to another house.)

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But it was excellent acting and directing, and was a believable reason for Brenda to have significant character development at an age when many don't.

Yeah, they had to get her to a place where her opting to leave rather than take a minor punishment for attacking Stroh in the elevator - something she, in the aftermath, thought she'd probably get fired for - made sense, and her mom dying without Brenda getting to know what she wanted to tell her because as this haunting example of her problem making time for people was a good way of putting her in a position where what Rusty said about paying more attention to the dead than the living really got to her.  When you end a workplace-based show by shipping the main character off to a different job than the one we've watched them love for years, you have to come up with a believable reason, and most shows don't.  This one pulled it off.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Bastet

[Spartan Girl]

8 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I do feel sorry for his mom, though, losing two sons right in a row like that - the second while she'd barely even begun to process that the first one was killed in a case of mistaken identity for the second - and having her own driveway and fence stained with the evidence of one son's murder.  (I appreciate the mention what she wanted to do with the settlement money was move to another house.)

I would have felt sorrier for her had held Terrell accountable for all the stuff he did. She didn’t seem to care all that much that her son was a murderer—and a child killer at that—and that his actions led to Ty getting killed. Really,  there are mothers that would have disowned him for that much. But she struck me as the kind of mother that probably coddles and enables her son no matter what he did.

I would have respected her more had she given the settlement money to the victim’s family.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Bastet]

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

I would have felt sorrier for her had she seemed to hold Terrell accountable for all the stuff he did. She didn’t seem to care all that much that her son was a murderer—and a child killer at that—and that his actions led to Ty getting killed. Really,  there are mothers that would have disowned him for that much. But she struck me as the kind of mother that probably coddles and enables her son no matter what he did.

I don't remember getting that much information on her, but I haven't seen that season in years and I'm sure I have memory gaps.  But with two sons killed within a day or two of each other, it doesn't surprise me a mother's primary emotion out of her several inevitable feelings about Turrell would be grief over his murder rather than anger Ty being mistaken for his twin is the reason Ty was killed.  Had Turrell lived, would she have disowned him?  Again, I didn't get anywhere close to enough of a sense of her to predict that.  Had Turrell set Ty up to be killed, I could lean that way, certainly, but Ty being killed in a mistaken identity crime because of murders Turrell had committed*, I don't know.

*She didn't even learn that until after Turrell was dead, right?  Another Crip had been blamed for the "Shootin' Newton" murders (I think Turrell framed him for it, and that's the guy who shot the soldiers, thinking Ty was Turrell, when he saw them at the nightclub), and as far as I know she believed that to indeed be the case like everybody else.  In the aftermath of Ty's death, the Burrell family was offered protection because Turrell had gone to the police; I can imagine a mother assuming that indicates he's a witness, helping the cops, putting them in danger from retaliation, not that he's actually a murderer finagling immunity.  When he told police it was really him who'd done the earlier murders, they brought him home, she wasn't there, and he got killed as soon as the cops left. 

 

[Spartan Girl]

7 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Had Turrell set Ty up to be killed, I could lean that way, certainly, but Ty being killed in a mistaken identity crime because of murders Turrell had committed*, I don't know.

He didn’t seem that torn up about his brother. Or at least not guilty enough to admit to what he did and accept the consequences instead of duping the cops into getting him an immunity deal. Just sayin’.

9 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I don't remember getting that much information on her, but I haven't seen that season in years and I'm sure I have memory gaps.  But with two sons killed within a day or two of each other, it doesn't surprise me a mother's primary emotion out of her several inevitable feelings about Turrell would be grief over his murder rather than anger Ty being mistaken for his twin is the reason Ty was killed. 

Yeah, but it would have been nice had she demonstrated at least a little horror that her son killed an old man and a little boy.

[Bastet]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

He didn’t seem that torn up about his brother. Or at least not guilty enough to admit to what he did and accept the consequences instead of duping the cops into getting him an immunity deal. Just sayin’.

Quote

Yeah, but it would have been nice had she demonstrated at least a little horror that her son killed an old man and a little boy.

We know so very little about her (did we ever even hear her speak?), I simply don't have any reason not to feel sorry for a woman having two sons murdered within days of each other, and having to live with a daily visual reminder of one of those murders.  If she'd witnessed Turrell's confession and had no reaction to the horror he inflicted, if she'd been heard shrugging off the Shootin' Newton murders later, etc. I'd feel differently.  I might even feel differently if she had several kids and they all turned out to be violent criminals.  But she raised two boys in gang territory, and came out 50/50, so I have nothing to point to indicating she was at least one reason for Turrell's depravity.

So since all I know is she lost two sons, violently and unexpectedly, within a matter of days, had the wrongful death suit dismissed at the summary judgment phase by a judge who acknowledged there are issues of fact that should be tried but the law requires they not be, and then planned to use her small settlement in the federal suit to buy a new house, I have sympathy for her experiencing such loss.

Gotta run, but this was interesting, thanks -- I hadn't thought about that storyline in depth in some time, so it was fun to dive into, especially in a discussion that didn't go hours or days between posts.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Bastet

[Clawdette]

One of my favorite episodes was on tonight, Blindsided. Chad and Roy steal the show as Brenda's bodyguards after she was involved in a shooting. Roy lounging with Brenda's dad on the fold-out bed with Brenda's dad at chez Johnson/Howard is priceless.

[andromeda331]

On 4/29/2023 at 8:58 PM, Clawdette said:

One of my favorite episodes was on tonight, Blindsided. Chad and Roy steal the show as Brenda's bodyguards after she was involved in a shooting. Roy lounging with Brenda's dad on the fold-out bed with Brenda's dad at chez Johnson/Howard is priceless.

I love the bodyguards! They are really great. I love Brenda's mother maniuplating them to get information. It runs in the family. How sad they were about what Brenda said about them and her reassuring them later. How happy they were about the engagement. And the one suddenly has a bag of cookies by the time Brenda and Fritz return to the living room.

[shapeshifter]

While watching 7.20 “Armed Response” today, I wondered:
Would Gabriel’s girlfriend be legally prevented from practicing law because:

Quote

Mr. Goldman shares reception and office personnel with several other law firms, one of which used Anne last summer as an Intern.
She's already admitted
that In exchange for getting to know [Gabriel], Goldman paid off $60000
of her student loans.

and then she fed inside information about cases to the attorney suing the department?

I don’t think she did anything illegal, but maybe there are ethical standards she violated? Or not?
 

 

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

While watching 7.20 “Armed Response” today, I wondered:
Would Gabriel’s girlfriend be legally prevented from practicing law because:

and then she fed inside information about cases to the attorney suing the department?

I don’t think she did anything illegal, but maybe there are ethical standards she violated? Or not?
 

 

Last time I checked, accepting a bribe is illegal. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Last time I checked, accepting a bribe is illegal. 

Right. But was it a bribe in the legal sense? 

ETA: I'm guessing that since there was no dialogue stating the effect of Anne's actions and choices on her future career prospects, they left it deliberately vague — perhaps because it would vary by individual State's laws, and maybe even differs between Los Angeles County, the City, etc.🤷🏻‍♀️
But if anyone here familiar with a similar example cares to share, I'd be interested.

Edited July 12, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Right. But was it a bribe in the legal sense? 

Your boss isn’t supposed to pay off your student loans, so yeah.

[Bastet]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:58 PM, shapeshifter said:

Right. But was it a bribe in the legal sense? 

No.  There are nearly a dozen different CA penal codes that define different types of bribery, and none of them apply to Goldman, let alone Anne.  That's because of who they both are -- one private party bribing another is not a criminal offense.  Bribing a long list of public officials is a crime, and then there's commercial bribery, which doesn't apply here either.

The only potential consequences are in terms of the State Bar's ethics rules.  But the settlement agreement included that the LAPD would not report Goldman to the Bar for investigation into his conduct.  So, with nothing on the record, when Anne underwent her Moral Character Examination, this wouldn't come up.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Bastet

[Spartan Girl]

21 hours ago, Bastet said:

No.  There are nearly a dozen different CA penal codes that define different types of bribery, and none of them apply to Goldman, let alone Anne.  That's because of who they both are -- one private party bribing another is not a criminal offense.  Bribing a long list of public officials is a crime, and then there's commercial bribery, which doesn't apply here either.

The only potential consequences are in terms of the State Bar's ethics rules.  But the settlement agreement included that the LAPD would not report Goldman to the Bar for investigation into his conduct.  So, with nothing on the record, when Anne underwent her Moral Character Examination, this wouldn't come up.

You’re probably right. But that doesn’t make it any less wrong and I hate that they got away with it.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

You’re probably right. But that doesn’t make it any less wrong and I hate that they got away with it.

Anne would have still been in early 20s, right? I think she may have truly regretted her choices and perhaps used her future to do better. She initially was recruited by Goldman to ostensibly help ferret out bad cops.

As for Goldman, I think he may have actually believed that's what he was doing. Brenda certainly did do the things Goldman accused her of doing. Goldman never framed Brenda like villains on other shows do. But Brenda didn't set up so-called extra-judicial death sentences for money, and she only went after real evil doers. Plus, they were only murdered because they had already acquired enemies.

So it's probably best that Anne and Goldman were never heard from again on the show. Their arcs were complete.

Thanks, @Bastet, for confirming Anne's legal status.

[Raja]

"Protect" and serve. Sgt Gabriel had reason to be upset even he didn't go to Commander Taylor or Internal Affairs himself. That a civilian acted without a warrant that the cops would have needed is window dressing 

[Bastet]

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

As for Goldman, I think he may have actually believed that's what he was doing. Brenda certainly did do the things Goldman accused her of doing.

Yeah, he summed it up well when he told her he was going to file in federal court on behalf of multiple plaintiffs:

"Prove it in a court of law. That's the problem with you, frankly.  What one knows and what one can prove are two different things.  You don't seem to get that. ...  And together they all add up to a past practice and pattern of denying suspects their constitutional privilege to a fair trial.  That is a civil rights violation for which you, the LAPD, and the City of Los Angeles are going to pay dearly."

When Gavin lays out the allegations, she can't deny a single one, she just explains how very bad a bad guy the person was.  That, of course, is not a defense.  It was an interesting writing challenge, and one they didn't always meet, to acknowledge she was wrong, yet keep her the hero of the show.  Making Goldman so sleazy was part of that.

On 7/23/2023 at 12:31 PM, shapeshifter said:

Anne would have still been in early 20s, right? I think she may have truly regretted her choices and perhaps used her future to do better. She initially was recruited by Goldman to ostensibly help ferret out bad cops.

Yeah, when Sharon realizes Anne is Goldman's source and brings her in, Anne tells David Goldman told her he was a crooked cop who'd been involved in a murder.  Then when she believed him to be a good cop, for whom she had feelings, she wanted to quit, but Goldman told her if she didn't go on helping him, he would tell Gabriel everything.  So she didn't seem like an inherently shitty person, more like someone who got in over her head and wound up doing a shitty thing.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, when Sharon realizes Anne is Goldman's source and brings her in, Anne tells David Goldman told her he was a crooked cop who'd been involved in a murder.  Then when she believed him to be a good cop, for whom she had feelings, she wanted to quit, but Goldman told her if she didn't go on helping him, he would tell Gabriel everything.  So she didn't seem like an inherently shitty person, more like someone who got in over her head and wound up doing a shitty thing.

Gee, for all of Goldman’s grandstanding about the law and ethics, he doesn’t seem to think blackmailing a young intern into doing his dirty work after he suckered her into doing it into false pretenses in the first place qualifies as unethical.🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

For those reasons, he was literally the last person entitled to judge Brenda’s failings. Especially when he knowingly represented criminals in Major Crimes.

I do feel a little sympathy for Anne, but she should have just come clean or just broken it off with Gabriel sooner rather than continue the relationship and keep selling him out behind his back. He was right to dump her when he found out.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

For those reasons, he was literally the last person entitled to judge Brenda’s failings. Especially when he knowingly represented criminals in Major Crimes.

That's what criminal defense lawyers do.  It's not unethical to represent criminals; they, like everyone, are constitutionally guaranteed the right to a lawyer.  (That whole connection with the brothers and the church - details I won't go into because they're spoilers for Major Crimes - was shady, definitely, but representing defendants one knows to be guilty isn't unethical -- the lawyer's ethical obligation is not to lie to or knowingly mislead the court in the course of conducting the defense.)

And being sleazy doesn't mean he can't judge arranging extrajudicial executions as the civil rights violation it is.  Both things can co-exist, and do all the time.  It's just like Brenda calling out his unethical shenanigans with that list of names, all the while denying she did anything wrong.  She sees it for what it is in him, and denies it in herself.  She thinks of her actions as the ends justifying the means.  He does the same.

Out of curiosity, what "false pretenses in the first place" are you referring to?  Telling her David was a dirty cop because he was involved in setting up Burrell to be killed in order to make her willing to agree?  That's what it looked like; he had no idea at that time that Gabriel had expressed any reservations or regret.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bastet

[Spartan Girl]

28 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Out of curiosity, what "false pretenses in the first place" are you referring to?  Telling her David was a dirty cop because he was involved in setting up Burrell to be killed in order to make her willing to agree?  That's what it looked like; he had no idea at that time that Gabriel had expressed any reservations or regret.

Like that would have stopped him even if he knew. Let’s not pretend he didn’t have an agenda beyond his “guardian of the law” bullshit speech he gave Brenda.

[Bastet]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Like that would have stopped him even if he knew. Let’s not pretend he didn’t have an agenda beyond his “guardian of the law” bullshit speech he gave Brenda.

I'm not, I was just curious what you were calling false pretenses in his initial overture to Anne (as recounted by her) since I don't recall any. 

In case it's not clear, I'm no fan of Goldman.  I'm just a huge fan of that lawsuit.  I hate most cop shows because there are never any consequences for police misconduct, or even note taken of them -- most normalize it.  So that this was even a storyline was progress.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I do feel a little sympathy for Anne, but she should have just come clean or just broken it off with Gabriel sooner rather than continue the relationship and keep selling him out behind his back. He was right to dump her when he found out.

Yes, Anne should have come clean with Gabriel, but she foolishly really thought it was all going to just go away: "I hoped that after the trials were over,
you would never find out."
If that had happened, and if they'd married and had kids, that's a huge secret to keep when folks ask at anniversary parties: "So, how did you 2 love birds meet?"

 

50 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I hate most cop shows because there are never any consequences for police misconduct, or even note taken of them -- most normalize it.  So that this was even a storyline was progress.

We did get to see through the lengthy Ty Burrell arc in The Closer that Brenda did seem to have her eyes somewhat opened to the consequences of her actions, but mostly (I thought) because she also lost her mother then, which caused her to regret (paraphrasing): spending more time listening to murderers than to her loved ones. 

But even more unusual for a cop show was that in the final episode, the main character (Brenda) wound up leaving her position as head of her unit ostensibly because her reprimand for attacking Stroh in the elevator (to get his DNA) could not be dismissed.
But then we are told Brenda went on to have a great career off screen, so no real consequences.
And yet, most uniquely, Brenda was replaced by someone (Sharon) who was pretty much ethically the polar opposite of Brenda, rather than recasting her role with a Brenda 2.0 to be Sharon's frenemy. 

Actually, most cop shows I watch do acknowledge that when a cop hero behaves badly (like waterboarding a kidnapper to get a location — which shouldn't work, but does) that the cop is wrong to do that. 
It's all those FBI shows that more frequently have the good guys go bad without consequences. 

But on The Closer, fibbie Fritz has the stronger moral compass.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But even more unusual for a cop show was that in the final episode, the main character (Brenda) wound up leaving her position as head of her unit ostensibly because her reprimand for attacking Stroh in the elevator (to get his DNA) could not be dismissed.

That all she'd get was a reprimand was a stretch (she acknowledged in the immediate aftermath she would be suspended, probably fired), but, yeah, they set up a scenario where her never knowing what her mom wanted to tell her because Willie Ray up and died unexpectedly had myopic Brenda believably poised to take to heart what Rusty said about caring more about the dead than the living, thus leaving behind a job she loved to take a step back -- still using her investigatory skills, but after the fact, not in hot pursuit (and thus so obsessive). 

It's equally believable that after a while she - again, avoiding specifics as they're spoilers for the sequel - moved on to something else, but they really pulled off it making sense for her to leave, and that's rare on TV.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Actually, most cop shows I watch do acknowledge that when a cop hero behaves badly (like waterboarding a kidnapper to get a location — which shouldn't work, but does) that the cop is wrong to do that. 

There's an entire world of behavior short of waterboarding that gets routinely shrugged off (NYPD Blue is probably the worst example ever, and Blue Bloods is just as unwatchable, but even good shows like Cagney & Lacey stumbled on this front sometimes).  And even something as egregious as arranging for extrajudicial executions can be presented as justified.  Which they sometimes did here (via Brenda's statements), but then sometimes had other characters - and not just antagonists - acknowledge was wrong.

It was an interesting line they straddled, storytelling wise.  In reality, it was horrific.  But within a fictional world I usually refuse to indulge in, it was, as I said, interesting, to see a character who'd been brought in because of her skill in eliciting legitimate confessions - to counteract all the cases in which confessions were coerced, evidence was planted, etc. - initially appalled at the misconduct of the officers under her command, go on to develop this pesky habit of arranging such atrocities the few times she was unsuccessful at legitimately closing a case, but then come back to herself in the end, refusing to murder Stroh.

I consider it a bridge between all the cop shows I loathe and Major Crimes, the only one (until that stupid-ass finale, but, again, no spoilers) I can embrace for its stand that the end never justifies the means.

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, Bastet said:

to see a character who'd been brought in because of her skill in eliciting legitimate confessions - to counteract all the cases in which confessions were coerced, evidence was planted, etc. - initially appalled at the misconduct of the officers under her command, go on to develop this pesky habit of arranging such atrocities the few times she was unsuccessful at legitimately closing a case, but then come back to herself in the end, refusing to murder Stroh.

Great summary of the series! 
— the cohesiveness of which escaped me.

Edited July 26, 2023 by shapeshifter
word choice

[Simba122504]

I recently started recording the series for the very first time. I missed the first five episodes of S1. So far I've seen all of S2, S3, S5 & S6. S7 is currently recording and S4 Episodes 2-11 is on the DVR. My stepdad use to watch it, but I never did. I've never been a huge fan of cop shows. I've been enjoying TC. 

[MaryMitch]

Brenda is one of those characters that I love watching but would HATE in real life (like the Seinfeld characters).  I don't understand what Fritz sees in her, but the best part of the show IMO is the relationships in the office. Oh, and I love her mother!

[andromeda331]

On 8/29/2023 at 8:56 AM, MaryMitch said:

Brenda is one of those characters that I love watching but would HATE in real life (like the Seinfeld characters).  I don't understand what Fritz sees in her, but the best part of the show IMO is the relationships in the office. Oh, and I love her mother!

I love the relationships between the guys and between them and Brenda. I agree it's the best part of the show.

[shapeshifter]

On 8/29/2023 at 10:56 AM, MaryMitch said:

Brenda is one of those characters that I love watching but would HATE in real life

I'm not sure whether or not I'd even want to work in the same office area as Brenda, but I would appreciate those times when she's the smartest person in the room. 

[shapeshifter]

Watching the terrific “Dial M For Provenza,” in which Provenza is almost “retired,” ostensibly for losing evidence, but really for reasons of departmental budget woes and ageism —
Since I was given a retirement package offer that it turned out I could not refuse 10 years after this episode aired, I looked up G.W. Bailey‘s age at the time the episode aired (2008) and felt somewhat vindicated by his age then being the same as mine when I had to take the deal a decade later.

The last scene (between Provenza and Chief Pope) is great and resolves the interpersonal issues nicely.

[CrazyInAlabama]

HLN (formerly Headline News channel) is showing The Closer from the first episodes today (Thanksgiving Day).   

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

HLN (formerly Headline News channel) is showing The Closer from the first episodes today (Thanksgiving Day).   

It looks like it's running all weekend.

[sempervivum]

Just read that Frances Sternhagen (Willie Rae Johnson, Brenda's mom) has died* at 93. RIP, Mama.

* for real

[Bastet]

On 11/29/2023 at 1:48 PM, sempervivum said:

Just read that Frances Sternhagen (Willie Rae Johnson, Brenda's mom) has died* at 93. RIP, Mama.

* for real

I posted that in the Milestones thread, but what I did not say there to a general audience but will say here is my first thought upon reading the news of her death was a mental image of how chillingly convincing she was as a corpse when Brenda discovered Willie Ray's body. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Bastet

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I posted that in the Milestones thread, but what I did not say there to a general audience but will say here is my first thought upon reading the news of her death was of how chillingly convincing she was as a corpse when Brenda discovered Willie Ray's body. 

My thoughts too. 

[januaryman]

I'll say that was the most gut-wrenching scene of the series.

[Bastet]

24 minutes ago, januaryman said:

I'll say that was the most gut-wrenching scene of the series.

On first viewing, it's all about Kyra's performance (and Frances being creepily good at playing dead), but on second look it's obvious Jon Tenney does just as great a job, just non-verbally; we get only quick glimpses of Fritz as they keep cutting back to Brenda, but Jon's face as Fritz goes from confusion and a bit of fear at her screaming to oh, goddammit, no realization as he follows her gesturing and sees Willie Ray is perfect.

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, januaryman said:

I'll say that was the most gut-wrenching scene of the series.

 

17 hours ago, Bastet said:

On first viewing, it's all about Kyra's performance (and Frances being creepily good at playing dead), but on second look it's obvious Jon Tenney does just as great a job, just non-verbally; we get only quick glimpses of Fritz as they keep cutting back to Brenda, but Jon's face as Fritz goes from confusion and a bit of fear at her screaming to oh, goddammit, no realization as he follows her gesturing and sees Willie Ray is perfect.

I agree. It's so gut wrenching. Both Kyra and Jon acted the hell out of both of those scenes. I loved Willie Ray.

[katie9918]

I do love Courtney Vance, but Chief Delk lasted just long enough to leave us wanting more, providing just a little shake-up (what’s going to happen?), a little comedic relief (his handling of Provenza was masterful), and ultimately a big lost opportunity that may or may not have been for the best (would he have been better or worse for Major Crimes during the lawsuit?).

His assignment of Provenza as cannabis liaison alone  was worth the price of admission.

One could wonder if he would have taken a more active role one way or another in the lawsuit. Pope was just kind of there for the most part, other than when he took credit for Fritz paying Gavin’s fee.

Edited January 7 by katie9918

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, katie9918 said:

I do love Courtney Vance, but Chief Delk lasted just long enough to leave us wanting more, providing just a little shake-up (what’s going to happen?), a little comedic relief (his handling of Provenza was masterful), and ultimately a big lost opportunity that may or may not have been for the best (would he have been better or worse for Major Crimes during the lawsuit?).

His assignment of Provenza as cannabis liaison alone  was worth the price of admission.

One could wonder if he would have taken a more active role one way or another in the lawsuit. Pope was just kind of there for the most part, other than when he took credit for Fritz paying Gavin’s fee.

I wish he was on a few more episodes. I like the shakeup that he brought to the show. I like him putting Provenza on cannabis liasion and Provenza snark at the end about how one drug dealer killing another over money and spouses killing each other for having an affair. 

I liked how he handled the one with the bomber. He handed over the case and everything to the FBI which ticked off Brenda. He pointed out that it was going to happen anyway and they could focus on Brenda's theory. 

Edited January 7 by andromeda331