The Closer - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

On 7/14/2018 at 1:22 AM, Bastet said:

(Spoiler tagged because it happens in Major Crimes rather than this show.)  Wow; that homophobe Andy Flynn

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winds up with a gay stepson, to whom fellow homophobe Louie Provenza is a beloved friend/protector, is unfathomable at this early point. 

I really had forgotten how awful most of these characters are in the beginning.  On that note, good gods, Sanchez is a creep.

Speaking of creeps - Taylor.  It's amusing that the squad deciding they hate him even more than they hate Brenda is what starts to thaw them towards her.  Brenda's "You are beneath me ... in rank" smackdown is wonderful.  I look forward to seeing again how that ultimately plays out in the season finale when everyone - including Andy, having been screwed over by his buddy Taylor - submits their resignation, which Brenda tosses one by one, just like she did with their transfer requests in the pilot. 

Hee; I think this early stretch of episodes (this time, Batter Up) is also when we first learn that Provenza doesn't want anyone touching his desk.  I love that it never changes.

I laughed out loud when Pope told Gabriel, "You could learn a thing or two from her" about Brenda, and then clarified, "Just about interrogation -- ignore all the rest."  Because, yeah.

I never found any of the characters awful at the start, except for Taylor, he was a complete self serving backstabbing douchebag who cared about nothing but his own career. Flynn was a real prick at times but I still found him likable and interesting, and I really liked his character evolution up until the end of Major Crimes where he became outrageously soft. 

And I never found Provenza and Flynn to be bigots at all, there is a difference between making politically incorrect insensitive comments, which Provenza and Flynn did, but I never thought they actually had a dislike/phobia of gays or anyone else. 

How exactly did you find the characters awful? Because they weren’t perfect beacons of morality and political correctness, and didn’t immediately like Brenda being in charge? Sounds like Gabriel is your favorite character. 

[Bastet]

No, I don't really have a favorite character until Sharon comes along, other than Brenda.  In these early days, I really liked Brenda for the most part, generally liked Gabriel (until the Daniels mess; I can't remember when that happens), and low-key liked, or maybe wanted to like, Daniels (I wish she was better developed) and liked Tao, with him probably growing on me the quickest, but I didn't love anyone (other than Brenda - and Fritz - with some reservations) in the early years.  By the end of the series, Sharon was my favorite, Brenda a close second, and it's a bit up in the air from there; by that point, I like them all - even Pope, definitely, and, yeah, I guess, even Taylor, despite the self-serving aspects of them.

Provenza and Flynn made numerous sexist and homophobic comments, and any time a victim or witness in the first two seasons (thus far) happened to be gay, they referred to him as things like "gay boy" and overall expressing discomfort with the fact the man happened to be gay.  That's not failing to be "politically correct," that's defining someone by their sexual orientation and speaking of it disparagingly.

I love when Brenda first encounters Sharon, and Provenza gives his history with her by saying that in response to him and his then-partner engaging in misogynist behavior - a word they had to look up - she sent them to X weeks of sensitivity training, and Brenda says, "That was a complete waste of time."  Brenda had their number; I'm certainly not going off canon in describing their bad attitudes at this point in the franchise - one of the fundamental themes of season one was the squad made her life difficult on multiple fronts (not just how they responded to her, but how they were in general) and then ultimately pulling together.  (Speaking of that, I love Pope giving her a gift [necklace?] as apology for how difficult things have been in the job he recruited her for/maybe, kind of, hopeful "I'm getting a divorce" overture while Fritz is waiting in the wings, heh.)  Flynn runs to Taylor with any little negative tidbit he learns, they're all doing their jobs but looking forward to her falling on her face, etc.  It's a wonderfully-awful working environment for our protagonist that comes together with time - yet she doesn't just roll over until that happens.  She calls their shit out for shit.

The guys - Tao and Gabriels to only a mild degree - are jackasses when Brenda first joins the LAPD, and I like the balance the show strikes in showing that some of the squad's reaction is reasonable "Who is this outsider coming in at a rank she hasn't earned?" resentment and suspicion, and some of it is sexism.  The first season plays out nicely, with them all getting to respect each other as detectives if nothing else, making the season finale's coming together well earned. 

It's a nice trajectory, and it carries on, unfolding at a nice pace.  But, damn, when I revisit these early years after having followed most of these people for another nearly 15 years and having their end points much more present in my mind, it's astounding how I feel about them at the end versus how I did at the beginning.  A sure sign of good writing and acting, because despite the wild difference from A to Z, because of B through Y, it makes perfect sense.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Bastet

[Bastet]

Ha - Taylor actually taking Brenda up on her offer to eat the birthday dinner Pope brought her, and Pope's face as he watches him prepare to dig in, is funny.

[Bastet]

Oh, thank the TV gods -- the "SKYBOX TICKETS?!" episode is starting right now.

[Bastet]

Some really little, but really nice touches in tonight's marathon of episodes:

- Of all the squad members who come bug Brenda when she’s in the bathroom (“What is it with you people and the ladies’ room?!”), Mike Tao is the one who’s uncomfortable about it.  He thinks nothing of doing it if he doesn’t want to wait to tell her something, but he is apologetic and cognizant of the intrusion.

- The porn star dead but believed by his wife to be working in Head Over Heels is “in Chatsworth today.”  Of course he is; that part of the valley is the porn capital.  This franchise uses Los Angeles as a character better than most shows set here.

Moving to bigger things, I had completely forgotten about Brenda’s pregnancy scare in season two.  When I think about my otherwise TV boyfriend Fritz's flaw of continuing to bring up kids after she’d said she doesn’t want them, I think of the “big houses/good schools” coded conversation they have later (in the episode where a dad kills his psycho son) where, between the lines, she asks if he wants kids, he says it would have to be a joint decision, and she says no; I had forgotten they earlier had this more explicit conversation in which she said maybe, but not now.  Now I'm going to have to keep an eye out for interim talks.  (Not that it ultimately changes anything, since, despite the coded language, she's clear, but I'm curious if that was the only "no," and following a "maybe" at that, or if it came up additional times I'm forgetting.)

Also, we get the names of a few of Provenza's many ex-wives in one of tonight's episodes (when he names the dummies being tossed over the balcony in various scenarios after his exes), but not the whole sordid history, and I'm impatient at jogging my memory -- who is the one he marries/divorces twice, so he has one more divorce than he does ex-wife?  (I love the continuity in season seven that they all connect the name Liz to the one who corrected his grammar.)

Edited July 28, 2018 by Bastet

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, Bastet said:

who is the one he marries/divorces twice, so he has one more divorce than he does ex-wife?

Is that not Liz too (his first wife)? I forgot about him marrying one wife twice. I know Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton aren't the only ones to have done this, but with Provenza's wife being named Liz, it seems like an homage.

[Bastet]

2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is that not Liz too (his first wife)?

I don't know, which is why I ask.  She seems the most likely, as his first wife and the mother/grandmother of a good chunk of his spawn, and thus the one he'd be more likely to return to, but she says in the season seven episode in which we meet her that it would have been interesting to see if they'd stuck it out through the tough parts, where they'd be now.  So that doesn't suggest taking two cracks at it (especially if, as I remember that Frank the bulldog episode, she refers to something like ten years together - with no indication it was broken up into two marriages - but I'd have to double-check that I'm not just hallucinating); it speaks of a first marriage that ran its course after a decent length of time, produced kids, and then the parties moved on (and one of them went on a marrying spree while the other understood what it is to date). 

Plus, when differentiating between the many exes Provenza was tossing over the balcony in the form of the dummies, if Liz was the one he married/divorced twice, it seems more likely Buzz et al would say that ("she's the one he married/divorced twice") as the identifier than "she always corrected his grammar" in helping the squad keep things straight (but, then again, the grammar thing was how they recognize her as the first ex-Mrs. Provenza when she turns up in the Murder Room in season seven).

So:  Of the little bit we learn - as I recall, anyway - of the exes, she's the most-likely candidate, but I can't remember if that was confirmed, and hesitate because the backstory I assumed from season two may have been mostly ignored by season seven; I'm wondering if someone who knows this show like I know Major Crimes can shed any light.

Also, Brenda not knowing how to pronounce Sepulveda and Taylor using that as an example of "She doesn't know shit about L.A." ranting amuse me in equal measure.

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

Also, Brenda not knowing how to pronounce Sepulveda and Taylor using that as an example of "She doesn't know shit about L.A." ranting amuse me in equal measure.

I reminded me of  a scene from  James Earl Jones. He had a few episodes and out series about a Chicago cop being released from a long term in prison after killing his partner to stop him from murdering a kid. He comes to LA to be with his grand kids and becomes a private investigator  and tries to sound out Sepulveda

[starri]

I think my favorite was everyone's attempt to pronounce the acronym FLARPL in "Til Death Do Us Part."

[raven]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:01 PM, Bastet said:

Oh, thank the TV gods -- the "SKYBOX TICKETS?!" episode is starting right now.

Some other funny things about this one:

Brenda not having a clue what Pope is going on about when she gets in but she immediately starts covering "It's not every day a body turns up....in that condition"

"WHERE ARE PROVENZA AND FLYNN????"

I like how Pope knows that Brenda didn't "accidentally" hit the mike in the interview room but I LOL at her face when he gives her the FBI excuse "a multi state scenario, exactly"

Brenda telling the sleazy lawyer "I'm working so closely with the FBI, I might as well be in bed with them"

On 7/28/2018 at 12:28 AM, Bastet said:

I think of the “big houses/good schools” coded conversation they have later (in the episode where a dad kills his psycho son) where, between the lines, she asks if he wants kids, he says it would have to be a joint decision, and she says no; I had forgotten they earlier had this more explicit conversation in which she said maybe, but not now. 

I remember the big houses/good school convo and I don't remember Brenda ever giving Fritz a definitive "no".  Which doesn't mean much, because I haven't seen most of these episodes in years, but my impression was always that she would be somewhat wishy-washy, where we in the audience knew she didn't want kids (her happy reaction to the negative pregnancy test for example) but I could see how maybe Fritz would be hoping she would. 

Watching these, I really wish the show hadn't done the Gabriels/Daniels relationship.  It was nice to have another woman on the team and I liked Daniels and the forensic accounting piece, plus she thinks pretty quickly on her feet in "To Protect and Serve"'.

[Bastet]

On 7/30/2018 at 5:12 PM, raven said:

I remember the big houses/good school convo and I don't remember Brenda ever giving Fritz a definitive "no".  Which doesn't mean much, because I haven't seen most of these episodes in years, but my impression was always that she would be somewhat wishy-washy, where we in the audience knew she didn't want kids (her happy reaction to the negative pregnancy test for example) but I could see how maybe Fritz would be hoping she would. 

She says, "I don't think we need to worry about that" as her final answer in the coded big houses/school districts conversation.  Sure, that's not, "No, we don't need to worry about that," but, at their ages, if you're not saying, "Well, I don't think we need to worry about that right now; maybe later," then you're saying no.  Especially since it's so much more definitive than she was in season two; if she was saying "not now, but maybe later" then but by now, married (?), a couple years older, and looking to buy a house, she's saying they don't need to take into consideration school district (in Los Angeles, no less) or room for more than the two them, she's saying she's decided in the interim the answer on kids is no.

It's something she should state in explicit terms, and something they should have discussed long before they did (and something he should have been able to discern based on, you know, everything about her), but on TV I'll take what I can get, and for TV, it was a refreshing conversation.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Bastet

[Xeliou66]

On 7/24/2018 at 10:50 PM, Bastet said:

No, I don't really have a favorite character until Sharon comes along, other than Brenda.  In these early days, I really liked Brenda for the most part, generally liked Gabriel (until the Daniels mess; I can't remember when that happens), and low-key liked, or maybe wanted to like, Daniels (I wish she was better developed) and liked Tao, with him probably growing on me the quickest, but I didn't love anyone (other than Brenda - and Fritz - with some reservations) in the early years.  By the end of the series, Sharon was my favorite, Brenda a close second, and it's a bit up in the air from there; by that point, I like them all - even Pope, definitely, and, yeah, I guess, even Taylor, despite the self-serving aspects of them.

Provenza and Flynn made numerous sexist and homophobic comments, and any time a victim or witness in the first two seasons (thus far) happened to be gay, they referred to him as things like "gay boy" and overall expressing discomfort with the fact the man happened to be gay.  That's not failing to be "politically correct," that's defining someone by their sexual orientation and speaking of it disparagingly.

I love when Brenda first encounters Sharon, and Provenza gives his history with her by saying that in response to him and his then-partner engaging in misogynist behavior - a word they had to look up - she sent them to X weeks of sensitivity training, and Brenda says, "That was a complete waste of time."  Brenda had their number; I'm certainly not going off canon in describing their bad attitudes at this point in the franchise - one of the fundamental themes of season one was the squad made her life difficult on multiple fronts (not just how they responded to her, but how they were in general) and then ultimately pulling together.  (Speaking of that, I love Pope giving her a gift [necklace?] as apology for how difficult things have been in the job he recruited her for/maybe, kind of, hopeful "I'm getting a divorce" overture while Fritz is waiting in the wings, heh.)  Flynn runs to Taylor with any little negative tidbit he learns, they're all doing their jobs but looking forward to her falling on her face, etc.  It's a wonderfully-awful working environment for our protagonist that comes together with time - yet she doesn't just roll over until that happens.  She calls their shit out for shit.

The guys - Tao and Gabriels to only a mild degree - are jackasses when Brenda first joins the LAPD, and I like the balance the show strikes in showing that some of the squad's reaction is reasonable "Who is this outsider coming in at a rank she hasn't earned?" resentment and suspicion, and some of it is sexism.  The first season plays out nicely, with them all getting to respect each other as detectives if nothing else, making the season finale's coming together well earned. 

It's a nice trajectory, and it carries on, unfolding at a nice pace.  But, damn, when I revisit these early years after having followed most of these people for another nearly 15 years and having their end points much more present in my mind, it's astounding how I feel about them at the end versus how I did at the beginning.  A sure sign of good writing and acting, because despite the wild difference from A to Z, because of B through Y, it makes perfect sense.

I guess we just have to disagree about this, I didn’t find any of the characters awful, aside from Taylor and maybe Flynn at times, and I never found Provenza and Flynn to be bigoted. I liked all of the characters from the start, with the exception of Gabriel, he was a bland ass kisser who got worse and worse as the show went on. I didn’t find the characters in season 1 that different from what they were in later seasons, aside from Flynn and Taylor, the others just warmed up to Brenda a lot more over time but other than that they were about the same. 

The main thing that I dislike about season 1 is how it is all Brenda and Gabriel : they take up by far the majority of the screen time, they do almost all of the interviews and detective work, and it’s like everyone else is just there to help them out. Flynn wasn’t even on the squad until the end of the season, and Provenza, Tao, Sanchez and Daniels weren’t even in every episode. After season 1, the show became much more of an ensemble, it was the chemistry between the characters that made this show so great, and I especially like Provenza, Flynn, Tao and Sanchez, so I don’t care for season 1 as much despite it having some very good cases, Good Housekeeping is one of my favorite episodes I would say. 

[Raja]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I guess we just have to disagree about this, I didn’t find any of the characters awful, aside from Taylor and maybe Flynn at times, and I never found Provenza and Flynn to be bigoted. I liked all of the characters from the start, with the exception of Gabriel, he was a bland ass kisser who got worse and worse as the show went on. I didn’t find the characters in season 1 that different from what they were in later seasons, aside from Flynn and Taylor, the others just warmed up to Brenda a lot more over time but other than that they were about the same. 

The main thing that I dislike about season 1 is how it is all Brenda and Gabriel : they take up by far the majority of the screen time, they do almost all of the interviews and detective work, and it’s like everyone else is just there to help them out. Flynn wasn’t even on the squad until the end of the season, and Provenza, Tao, Sanchez and Daniels weren’t even in every episode. After season 1, the show became much more of an ensemble, it was the chemistry between the characters that made this show so great, and I especially like Provenza, Flynn, Tao and Sanchez, so I don’t care for season 1 as much despite it having some very good cases, Good Housekeeping is one of my favorite episodes I would say. 

Well they played up more that Detectives Sanchez, Daniels and LT Tao brought a special focus and skill to the team so when a caper didn't call for their expertise they took a back seat.  Adding LT Flynn as another general detective broke up that balance

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I guess we just have to disagree about this, I didn’t find any of the characters awful, aside from Taylor and maybe Flynn at times,

No problem if you don't want to discuss it further, but with the primary arc of the first season being how difficult it was for her to lead a squad of resentful people who don't want to accept her, and who say and do the kinds of problematic things she was brought in to rectify in the wake of recent scandals, blown trials, and public mistrust, and thus how both surprising and gratifying the mass resignation (contrasted with the mass "I want the fuck out of here if this 'bitch' - as she was called at least twice - is running the division" mass transfer request) in the season finale was for the progression it shows, I'm comfortable having canon on my side -- Taylor and Flynn are the most blatant in their disrespect, certainly, but they're not the outliers as the show gets going; Gabriel is, and then as the season progresses, his acceptance and then respect for her becomes more common among the squad as they see her work/get to know her.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Bastet

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

No problem if you don't want to discuss it further, but with the primary arc of the first season being how difficult it was for her to lead a squad of resentful people who don't want to accept her, and who say and do the kinds of problematic things she was brought in to rectify in the wake of recent scandals, blown trials, and public mistrust, and thus how both surprising and gratifying the mass resignation (contrasted with the mass "I want the fuck out of here if this 'bitch' - as she was called at least twice - is running the division" mass transfer request) in the season finale was for the progression it shows, I'm comfortable having canon on my side -- Taylor and Flynn are the most blatant in their disrespect, certainly, but they're not the outliers as the show gets going; Gabriel is, and then as the season progresses, his acceptance and then respect for her becomes more common among the squad as they see her work/get to know her.

Gabriel was kissing Brenda’s ass from the start, that’s what he was, a massive ass kissing suck up. I just have to disagree about the characters being awful in the first season, aside from Taylor and Flynn (although I still found Flynn likable at times). I liked them all, despite their initial resentment towards Brenda, I just don’t see how you found them awful. How were Tao, Sanchez and Daniels awful? I know you disliked Provenza’s politically incorrect remarks but Provenza stays that way. 

Who called Brenda a bitch besides the prick who was working with Flynn in the pilot episode (to which Brenda responded “if I liked being called a bitch to my face I would still be married!”)? 

I just disagree about the characters being awful, I don’t think that resenting Brenda at the start (a lot of which Taylor had no doubt manipulated) made them awful characters. 

[Raja]

LT Tao was coming from Scientific Investigations Division so not a general detective while Sanchez and Daniels would have been working for whatever Lieutenant they were assigned to. In their cases having to call her "Chief" Johnson was not the gut punch that it was to her counterparts Lieutenants Provenza and Flynn and what Captain Taylor saw, that Priority Homicide should have been a section in his Robbery Homicide Division.  Meanwhile Sergeant Gabriel as he was mentored by Captain Taylor to be a Chief's driver took on that role, along with Taylor hoping he would be a spy.. The path that real life LAPD Chief Darryl Gates took.

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just don’t see how you found them awful.

Because the show asked me to, and it worked.  If you want me to list specific examples of how many of them were awful to Brenda when she first took over, how Julio was a creep towards women, how Provenza and Flynn spoke about women, gay people, etc., you'll have to wait until season one comes around in the rotation again.  (With how many episodes they're airing per week, it won't be as long as it sounds.)

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Who called Brenda a bitch besides the prick who was working with Flynn in the pilot episode (to which Brenda responded “if I liked being called a bitch to my face I would still be married!”)? 

Flynn ("The bitch hates my guts" or something to that effect when he was talking about her to ... Taylor?).

10 hours ago, Raja said:

LT Tao was coming from Scientific Investigations Division

I'm glad you mentioned that -- a few days ago a friend and I were talking about the positions everyone held prior to the formation of Priority Homicide (or Priority Murder Squad, heh), but we couldn't remember Mike's ("something techy, surely" is as far as we got) and I've been forgetting to look it up.  Good timing!

[raven]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:22 PM, Bastet said:

It's something she should state in explicit terms, and something they should have discussed long before they did (and something he should have been able to discern based on, you know, everything about her), but on TV I'll take what I can get, and for TV, it was a refreshing conversation.

Part of Brenda's character was avoiding difficult personal topics (Fritz moving in, etc) so her not being straightforward was in character.  It didn't bother me that Fritz would bring up having kids because she didn't really give him a definitive "no" and I thought it was in character for him to pursue it - like I felt he was the one who wanted to move in together.  I always felt that the Brenda/Fritz relationship was authentic, with both showing fairly consistent strengths and weaknesses.

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Gabriel was kissing Brenda’s ass from the start, that’s what he was, a massive ass kissing suck up.

I disagree; he was being polite to his superior officer (as he should have been), he helped her out when necessary and he held her back occasionally when necessary.  I don't think being polite and learning from Brenda makes him a suck-up.  To me, a suck-up is someone who constantly praises the other person, looking for favors, complimenting them and Gabriel didn't do that.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, raven said:

Part of Brenda's character was avoiding difficult personal topics (Fritz moving in, etc) so her not being straightforward was in character.  It didn't bother me that Fritz would bring up having kids because she didn't really give him a definitive "no" and I thought it was in character for him to pursue it - like I felt he was the one who wanted to move in together.  I always felt that the Brenda/Fritz relationship was authentic, with both showing fairly consistent strengths and weaknesses.

I do agree that she never really gave a straight forward answer. She said what she said about schools. But then later when Fritz suggested turning their guest bedroom into a nursery she didn't say no but talked about the mother of her victim. Which he pointed out they still got married even though they had seen reactions of telling a wife her husband was never coming back. Then there's Charlie. Fritz wanted her to come and stay with them as practice for having a kid of their own. But when he wanted to send her back over the drugs Brenda points out that he's the one who wanted kids and what if it was their kid? I don't think she wanted kids but I don't think she really ever gave him a definite no. He asks about her wanting kids after her pregnancy scary and she doesn't say no. She just says its too early in their relationship to talk about it. But hadn't they moved in by that point? That's something you do need to decide yes or no. Its not really something you can compromise on.  

[andromeda331]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 10:37 PM, Bastet said:

No problem if you don't want to discuss it further, but with the primary arc of the first season being how difficult it was for her to lead a squad of resentful people who don't want to accept her, and who say and do the kinds of problematic things she was brought in to rectify in the wake of recent scandals, blown trials, and public mistrust, and thus how both surprising and gratifying the mass resignation (contrasted with the mass "I want the fuck out of here if this 'bitch' - as she was called at least twice - is running the division" mass transfer request) in the season finale was for the progression it shows, I'm comfortable having canon on my side -- Taylor and Flynn are the most blatant in their disrespect, certainly, but they're not the outliers as the show gets going; Gabriel is, and then as the season progresses, his acceptance and then respect for her becomes more common among the squad as they see her work/get to know her.

 

I agree the squad did treat her like crap in the first season. That was the arc her slowly winning them over. I get them being upset and angry at the sudden changed and a new person brought in from outside the department. Taylor and Flynn were the worse constantly trying to under-mind Brenda. Instead of falling Brenda's order to arrest Dean Kingsley, both went to whine to Pope instead who over ruled Brenda and no one told her about it. None of the other members of the squad called her either. Flynn sending the type to Taylor that lead to the horrible arrest Blake Rawlings. The department could have gotten sued by Blake after that arrested and the forced confession.  Flynn going over Brenda's head to get a judge to open the files when she said no. Emailing the newspaper about her past? Provenza I'm not sure what side he was on. He was grumpy and didn't act like he liked her. But he went looking for the grocery store tapes that proved Blake's alibi. It wasn't until Taylor threw Flynn under the bus and Brenda helped him that Flynn stopped being a jerk.  Taylor remains a jerk longer and even files a bogus complaint against Brenda to get rid of her or have her reduced in rank. He only stopped when got the Commander spot which was below Brenda. Even though I ended up liking Taylor later I hated to see that happen.  He basically got away with everything he did.  

Edited August 2, 2018 by andromeda331

[shapeshifter]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree the squad did treat her like crap in the first season. That was the arc her slowly winning them over. I get them being upset and angry at the sudden changed and a new person brought in from outside the department. Taylor and Flynn were the worse constantly trying to under-mind Brenda. Instead of falling Brenda's order to arrest Dean Kingsley, both went to whine to Pope instead who over ruled Brenda and no one told her about it. None of the other members of the squad called her either. Flynn sending the type to Taylor that lead to the horrible arrest Blake Rawlings. The department could have gotten sued by Blake after that arrested and the forced confession.  Flynn going over Brenda's head to get a judge to open the files when she said no. Emailing the newspaper about her past? Provenza I'm not sure what side he was on. He was grumpy and didn't act like he liked her. But he went looking for the grocery store tapes that proved Blake's alibi. It wasn't until Taylor threw Flynn under the bus and Brenda helped him that Flynn stopped being a jerk.  Taylor remains a jerk longer and even files a bogus complaint against Brenda to get rid of her or have her reduced in rank. He only stopped when got the Commander spot which was below Brenda. Even though I ended up liking Taylor later I hated to see that happen.  He basically got away with everything he did.  

Looking back on the first season through this post and after having read many negative opinions of Brenda on the Major Crimes board (especially by those who never saw season one Brenda), I now realize that the purpose of having Brenda start out in a hostile work environment was to make her a sympathetic character in the eyes of the audience so we wouldn't hate her extra-judical shenanigans later. It worked for me, but maybe not for everyone. 

I am also one who liked Gabriel because it seemed to me that he was willing to support Brenda when no one else was ready to do that. Plus, ya know, the kittens.

I thought Gabriel's relationship with Daniels was just a poorly thought out plot device to get rid of her—I don't think there was ever clarification regarding why they wrote her out. Maybe they didn't want another strong female character? Sykes and DDA Hobbs were more restrained. IDK. It seems they could've just toned down Daniels a smidge if that was it.

But then Gabriel's relationship with his fiancé was a disaster too when she turned out to be a spy for the slimy lawyer. Yeah, I guess Gabriel should've just stuck with felines.

[Bastet]

I love Heroic Measures.  The actor playing Melissa Langner does a great job.  And you can just see everything coming, because it’s all stuff that happens to women all the time – Gabriel is going to be a twit about Daniels making the call to lock down the OR as a crime scene, the administrator is going to, when he sees Brenda and Fritz arrive, assume Fritz is the superior officer, the mother is going to be dismissed as an hysterical woman, then suspected of munchausen by proxy, the DA isn’t going to want to press charges.  And it all happens (Pope even outright refers to Melissa as an "hysterical woman," and then lumps Brenda and Daniels in with her).

The actor playing the hospital administrator played the slimy psychiatrist in Silence of the Lambs; I wonder if he has ever played a good guy, because he’s extremely convincing as a sleazeball.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Bastet

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I love Heroic Measures.  The actor playing Melissa Langner does a great job.  And you can just see everything coming, because it’s all stuff that happens to women all the time – Gabriel is going to be a twit about Daniels making the call to lock down the OR as a crime scene, the administrator is going to, when he sees Brenda and Fritz arrive, assume Fritz is the superior officer, the mother is going to be dismissed as an hysterical woman, then suspected of munchausen by proxy, the DA isn’t going to want to press charges.  And it all happens (Pope even outright refers to Melissa as an "hysterical woman," and then lumps Brenda and Daniels in with her).

The guy playing the hospital administrator played the slimy psychiatrist in Silence of the Lambs; I wonder if he has ever played a good guy, because he’s extremely convincing as a sleazeball.

This summary ^^ reminds me of one of the things I loved about this show: How every A and B plot point fit together so snugly to emphasize and/or reveal aspects about the over-arching theme.

 

News flash: Starting possibly as early as September 3, The Closer will be airing on the new, free, OTA channel Start TV, a CBS affiliate, possibly replacing the Decades channel—although that last part isn't clear to me (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/weigel-broadcasting-co-to-launch-new-start-tv-network-in-association-with-cbs-television-stations-300685969.html ).

[Bastet]

Ha!  I love this from the return of Ray Wise’s attorney character in The Other Woman:

Objection.
On what grounds?
The question is harassing, argumentative, and ends with a preposition.

I remember Borderline as the first episode I got annoyed with Brenda.  She was involved in a car accident while driving a city vehicle on duty; of course she’s going to have some paperwork to fill out!  Not knowing she couldn’t leave the scene, okay; yes, she should know, but it was an innocent mistake and easily dealt with.  Not reporting it?  Much more dumb, but we're still in "I didn't know" territory.  It's once we get to "I know, and don't care" land that I'm irked.  Refusing to fill out the necessary report once all this was pointed out to her, even though she had 24 hours to do it?  Come on.  Running to Pope claiming she’s just too important to waste time on such trifling things and asking him to make the Traffic investigation go away was too much.  Just fill out the damn forms and let everybody do their jobs – of course it has to be investigated and closed out!

But this episode also gives me Brenda’s outfits at one of their most amusing with the combination of pastel blues and greens.  I love how Greg LaVoi, the costume designer, didn’t go Ugly Betty-style overboard with her wardrobe.  Brenda dresses in a way that isn’t at all typical, or even right, for a Los Angeles professional, but it’s not outlandish; she’s under-dressed a lot of the time, but she’s never inappropriately dressed.  And I like that Kyra Sedgwick embraced Brenda’s fashion sense, despite how she disliked the clothes personally, as perfect for the character.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

Ha!  I love this from the return of Ray Wise’s attorney character in The Other Woman:

Objection.
On what grounds?
The question is harassing, argumentative, and ends with a preposition.

I remember Borderline as the first episode I got annoyed with Brenda.  She was involved in a car accident while driving a city vehicle on duty; of course she’s going to have some paperwork to fill out!  Not knowing she couldn’t leave the scene, okay; yes, she should know, but it was an innocent mistake and easily dealt with.  Not reporting it?  Much more dumb, but we're still in "I didn't know" territory.  It's once we get to "I know, and don't care" land that I'm irked.  Refusing to fill out the necessary report once all this was pointed out to her, even though she had 24 hours to do it?  Come on.  Running to Pope claiming she’s just too important to waste time on such trifling things and asking him to make the Traffic investigation go away was too much.  Just fill out the damn forms and let everybody do their jobs – of course it has to be investigated and closed out!

But this episode also gives me Brenda’s outfits at one of their most amusing with the combination of pastel blues and greens.  I love how Greg LaVoi, the costume designer, didn’t go Ugly Betty-style overboard with her wardrobe.  Brenda dresses in a way that isn’t at all typical, or even right, for a Los Angeles professional, but it’s not outlandish; she’s under-dressed a lot of the time, but she’s never inappropriately dressed.  And I like that Kyra Sedgwick embraced Brenda’s fashion sense, despite how she disliked the clothes personally, as perfect for the character.

That's the first episode I got annoyed with Brenda too. She should know not to leave a scene of accident I can't imagine DC or Atlanta having different rules then that. But she didn't know it was an honest mistake and she did think she was going to the site of triple homicide. But yes by the time it gets to the I don't care and refusing to fill out the paperwork because she's too important too? No one likes to do paperwork and watching her wiggle, complain and think she's too important and eventually get out of it completely doesn't make you think go Brenda. All her groaning about the problem. Fill out the forms Brenda and it'll go away. Its not going away because you won't fill out the forms. Plus we have many more episodes of Brenda trying and usually succeeding in getting out of doing paperwork. 

I love Ray Wise in everything he does. I've watched him in almost everything he does and I love him as Brenda's lawyer. He was awesome and fun to watch. I wish we had seen him pop up a couple more times. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by andromeda331

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I love Heroic Measures.  The actor playing Melissa Langner does a great job.  And you can just see everything coming, because it’s all stuff that happens to women all the time – Gabriel is going to be a twit about Daniels making the call to lock down the OR as a crime scene, the administrator is going to, when he sees Brenda and Fritz arrive, assume Fritz is the superior officer, the mother is going to be dismissed as an hysterical woman, then suspected of munchausen by proxy, the DA isn’t going to want to press charges.  And it all happens (Pope even outright refers to Melissa as an "hysterical woman," and then lumps Brenda and Daniels in with her).

The actor playing the hospital administrator played the slimy psychiatrist in Silence of the Lambs; I wonder if he has ever played a good guy, because he’s extremely convincing as a sleazeball.

 

I hated that episode for those reasons. Oh, yea women being lumped into hysterical women! I can't believe Pope would lump Brenda and Daniels like that it was wrong to call the mother that but he knows Brenda and I assume he knows Daniels. Brenda's closed how many cases but here she's hysterical? Way to undermined your detectives Pope! On an unrelated note I loved the dress Brenda wore when she arrived at the hospital she looked really great.

Edited August 4, 2018 by andromeda331

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I hated that episode for those reasons. Oh, yea women being lumped into hysterical women! I can't believe Pope would lump Brenda and Daniels like that it was wrong to call the mother that but he knows Brenda and I assume he knows Daniels. Brenda's closed how many cases but here she's hysterical? Way to undermined your detectives Pope! On an unrelated note I loved the dress Brenda wore when she arrived at the hospital she looked really great.

It's been a while since I saw that rather disturbing (to me—because of the mom doing the autopsy) episode, but we were supposed to hate the "hysterical women" characterizations, right? I mean, Pope was supposed to look like a bit of a paternalistic Neanderthal, right?
Of course, just because the writers agree with us about that doesn't mean we want to watch it.

Plus, Deirdre Lovejoy as the mom chewed the scenery a bit too much for me. This is similar to your objection, @andromeda331. I thought her acting and/or the directing of her acting made her look like more of a hysterical woman-type than was necessary to prove the point that the men in the story were wrong to judge her that way. The backstory of her being obsessed with her kid after the father's death was also over the top—which I guess was the point—but that story bugged me more than Pope's stereotyping women.

Edited August 4, 2018 by shapeshifter

[raven]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

The question is harassing, argumentative, and ends with a preposition.

And he says it with that smile!  I loved both of Ray Wise's appearance on the show and it answered the question about what was the present Pope gave Brenda (we don't find out and neither does she) unless Pope tells her in a later episode.  I also laughed at Wise's character telling Brenda to stop talking, which was killing her.

I'm not a fan of "Heroic Measures" - it is SO OTT - closing down the OR, threatening to close a hospital floor, the actress playing the mother is so overwrought, the mother's autopsy (!) - even I knew that would be inadmissible and Brenda needed the D.A. to point it (and other facts) out to her?  It can't just be a malpractice error, nope, the doc has to basically state he's playing God.  Then the mother shoots the doctor - just more OTT.  The Closer had a few such episodes which stretched the bounds of incredulity and I don't like those, including (I know this is unpopular) the one where Brenda's parents drive in an RV with a suspect - just too unbelievable for me. 

I was also disappointed when Brenda/Provenza play good cop/bad cop and she tells him to not hold back on bad cop, yet he seems pretty tame.

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

And I like that Kyra Sedgwick embraced Brenda’s fashion sense, despite how she disliked the clothes personally, as perfect for the character.

Though I have no doubt the Brenda character liked her clothes, she (Brenda) would also know that an attractive woman, dressed in a stereotypically feminine fashion, would throw suspects off and/or make them comfortable with her.  The wardrobe helped emphasize Brenda's otherness as well.   I loved seeing the color ensembles (though I'm not a fan of florals), it was a nice change from the usual black, gray, business suits. 

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

It's been a while since I saw that rather disturbing (to me—because of the mom doing the autopsy) episode, but we were supposed to hate the "hysterical women" characterizations, right? I mean, Pope was supposed to look like a bit of a paternalistic Neanderthal, right?

Yes; Brenda tells him, "I know you don't want me to respond to that" with one of Those Looks on her face.  Brenda and Daniels are incredibly frustrated at the end, disgusted that there will be no prosecution.  The show presents a bitter reality, all while acknowledging the bitterness (and sexism).  I don't think any character comes out and says, "This happens all the time," but they don't need to, either; we've seen it play out time and again, and are hoping somehow our heroes are going to come up with a way to make it different this time, but also knowing they won't.

3 hours ago, raven said:

Though I have no doubt the Brenda character liked her clothes, she (Brenda) would also know that an attractive woman, dressed in a stereotypically feminine fashion, would throw suspects off and/or make them comfortable with her.  The wardrobe helped emphasize Brenda's otherness as well.  

Yes, that's what I mean about loving that Sedgwick and LaVoi are so dedicated to the wardrobe, despite their personal distaste for the clothes, because it's perfect for the character.  It is how Brenda would dress, as a person, and as an investigator whose MO is to disarm suspects into underestimating her with her sweet, scattered, southern persona, luring them into letting their guard down so she can skillfully lead them into saying something they don't want to say.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Bastet

[raven]

13 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

But she didn't know it was an honest mistake and she did think she was going to the site of triple homicide. But yes by the time it gets to the I don't care and refusing to fill out the paperwork because she's too important too?

Part of the reason I think that Brenda double-downed on her (wrong) position is that the guy she hits starts off calling her "sweetie" - her whole demeanor changes when that happens.  Then she's further annoyed by the traffic Captain snidely talking about how the LAPD should promote from within, the guy she hit saying she "fled the scene", etc.  Plus of course she doesn't want to admit she's wrong or doesn't know the policy.  The traffic Captain and Pope being unimpressed with Brenda's excuses does amuse me.

Is it me or does Provenza seem borderline racist in this one?  I'm annoyed that Sanchez only gets prominence in these gang-related episodes too.

[Xeliou66]

8 hours ago, raven said:

Part of the reason I think that Brenda double-downed on her (wrong) position is that the guy she hits starts off calling her "sweetie" - her whole demeanor changes when that happens.  Then she's further annoyed by the traffic Captain snidely talking about how the LAPD should promote from within, the guy she hit saying she "fled the scene", etc.  Plus of course she doesn't want to admit she's wrong or doesn't know the policy.  The traffic Captain and Pope being unimpressed with Brenda's excuses does amuse me.

Is it me or does Provenza seem borderline racist in this one?  I'm annoyed that Sanchez only gets prominence in these gang-related episodes too.

How did you find Provenza racist in this one? 

Provenza and Julio’s dialogue at the squadroom was very funny IMO 

“How did you get here Sanchez?”

”Your daughter drove me” 

I love the Provenza/Sanchez relationship, my favorite of the show. I have to say, it seemed like Julio had more of a sense of humor and was less uptight in the older episodes, he became more serious and reserved as time went on, his humor occasionally showed but he was a lot more laid back in the early seasons. 

I agree about finding Brenda annoying in this episode with her blowing off the fender bender situation as if she was too important for it.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

How did you find Provenza racist in this one? 

Provenza and Julio’s dialogue at the squadroom was very funny IMO 

“How did you get here Sanchez?”

”Your daughter drove me” 

That exchange always seems a little puzzling to me, because we don't yet know if Sanchez and Provenza are close friends, and since Provenza's question is kind of a racist joke, we don't know how he means it. I just realized that Julio's retort of "your daughter drove me" was supposed to be an ageist joke—which makes the exchange kind of a brilliant bit of writing, IMO.

 

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree about finding Brenda annoying in this episode with her blowing off the fender bender situation as if she was too important for it.

That's how I've always seen it too, but in reading through the closed captioning for the episode, I now realize that her lines could have been delivered so that it was obvious that she was just flustered and stressed (rather than "high and mighty") but that would have also made her character look weak in a professional setting, and that would not have been true to her character. 

Later in the series she shows moments of weakness with her "team" because they are more like family, but with the fender bender she is dealing with someone who works for the LAPD but with whom she has no relationship.

[raven]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

How did you find Provenza racist in this one? 

I know I said"racist" but thinking on it, maybe not quite the right term.  The exchange was supposed to be funny but doesn't come off that way to me and I think Provenza then mimics a Spanish accent.   I get that it's supposed to be work colleagues busting chops and all that.

 

Quote

I just realized that Julio's retort of "your daughter drove me" was supposed to be an ageist joke—which makes the exchange kind of a brilliant bit of writing, IMO.

Usually the retort would be "your wife drove me" but I took it as, since Provenza's not married, it's "daughter" (rather than an age joke).

The intended humor just didn't work for me there.

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That exchange always seems a little puzzling to me, because we don't yet know if Sanchez and Provenza are close friends, and since Provenza's question is kind of a racist joke, we don't know how he means it. I just realized that Julio's retort of "your daughter drove me" was supposed to be an ageist joke—which makes the exchange kind of a brilliant bit of writing, IMO.

 

That's how I've always seen it too, but in reading through the closed captioning for the episode, I now realize that her lines could have been delivered so that it was obvious that she was just flustered and stressed (rather than "high and mighty") but that would have also made her character look weak in a professional setting, and that would not have been true to her character. 

Later in the series she shows moments of weakness with her "team" because they are more like family, but with the fender bender she is dealing with someone who works for the LAPD but with whom she has no relationship.

We never know much about where these characters were before Priority Homicide was created, but I’m pretty sure Provenza, Flynn, Tao and Sanchez all knew each other for a while, they all seemed very familiar with each other when the show started. Anyway later episodes of both this show and Major Crimes showed the close bond between Provenza and Sanchez many times, so I didn’t find their dialogue odd or unusual, Provenza made many wiseass remarks, although I’m not sure if he would’ve made a racial remark to other minority members of the squad. And yeah Sanchez’ retort was a crack at Provenza’s age, and it wasn’t the only time Julio made a joke about it, remember when they visited the nursing home and Provenza was morosely looking around and Julio quipped “don’t worry Lieutenant, I’ll come visit you!”

I found Brenda to be acting arrogantly and selfishly in this episode, and her selfishness was the main thing I disliked about her, she ignored everyone around her and only focused on her own agenda, something which Fritz and Pope called her out on many times. 

[Bastet]

Wait - is this episode in which everyone finds out about Pope and Brenda's affair the first time Brenda and Fritz exchanged "I love you"s?  That would be bizarre, since they already live together, but the way he said it and the way she reacted made it seem significant.  (I laughed out loud that her "I love you too" note has a P.S. asking him to cancel her credit cards.  Oh, Brenda - never change.)

It was unbelievably stupid to call as a character witness in family court the former mistress* (no, the fact it wasn't this wife, but the first one, that he cheated on with her does not fix that), and Estelle's bombshell is really ugly fallout.  And of course Pope's reaction is all about himself.

*and not something Pope's lawyer would have actually done.

[raven]

15 hours ago, Bastet said:

It was unbelievably stupid to call as a character witness in family court the former mistress* (no, the fact it wasn't this wife, but the first one, that he cheated on with her does not fix that), and Estelle's bombshell is really ugly fallout.  And of course Pope's reaction is all about himself.

*and not something Pope's lawyer would have actually done.

Yeah, that was one of those "things that happen on TV that wouldn't happen in real life".  I do wonder if that whole sequence, followed by "No Good Deeds" with Brenda tossing her pile of Pope memories, was to show that though Brenda did have feelings for Pope once, she doesn't anymore, even if her memories of their time together are mostly fond ones.

I liked JK Simmons's portrayal of Pope as a good chief though a bad husband and an opportunist with women. 

I just finished watching the two part episode "Serving the King" which was for me the believable/fun side of "only on TV" with the CIA approaching Brenda after the mess of the murder room shooting in "Overkill" (also an entertaining episode).   Though it's true that Fritz gets over whatever annoyance he has with Brenda pretty quickly - in this case, Estelle's murder room tantrum, Brenda's deposition - the Kitty gone missing stuff was cute enough for me to forgive it and the wacky end with the shooting was tense enough and well acted.

I like that we see fallout from"Overkill" in "Serving the King"; Brenda's on leave, Sanchez/Provenza are being investigated for the shooting.  Brenda and Provenza doing their unofficial investigation was fun; her team committing to help (Flynn showing up at night to walk the murder scene in full suit and tie is a highlight); Flynn angrily cleaning Provenza's desk when Taylor messes it up; we have complications and plutonium and shady agents; former agent Elaine smoking and drinking (wish we had more of her); Brenda being impulsive and being Brenda.  I really enjoyed that trio as a wrap up to the second season and Provenza taking Brenda for breakfast somewhere fast and cheap "it's my specialty" was a great way to end it.

[Bastet]

I don't like spy stories, so that two-part season finale wasn't my thing in general and I started doing something on my computer and just half-listening, but it had good moments like Taylor's messy eating, "Meg Wellman" as Elaine (I know Debra Mooney has been in many things, but thanks to her stint on Roseanne, she'll always be Mrs. Wellman to me), the Kitty stuff (get your cat spayed, Brenda!), Brenda's "five-mile" run taking 15 minutes because she only gets as far as the bakery, and her umpteen abandoned projects cluttering up the house. 

It also included my third sighting so far in the series of an actor who later turns up on Major Crimes playing a different character (the guy playing Richard Branch). 

In order for Brenda and Raydor's meeting in Red Tape to be their first, as Brenda says it is, we must fanwank that Sharon was on vacation when the murder room shooting in Overkill happened and her second-in-command handled the 72-hour reporting cycle for FID.  (That they never meet after that in any of the four months that lapse between shooting and reinstatement can be explained as it being the federal investigation that's still ongoing, although I believe there is a line that suggests the IA one is, too, but it's believable Brenda's limited role in the events was thoroughly covered in that initial report and the only follow-up questioning was with Provenza and Julio.)

Edited August 11, 2018 by Bastet

[Raja]

Or because it was a Lieutenant and a Detective and not the Chief shooting the command level official didn't run the case as the Traffic Division commander being a Captain had to deal with Chief Johnson.

 

Julio was annoyed with the white guy in a suit gangsters being stars in the Agents eyes compared to the gangsters who he polices 

[Bastet]

23 minutes ago, Raja said:

Or because it was a Lieutenant and a Detective and not the Chief shooting the command level official didn't run the case

She ran Gabriel's case, and Andy's (although, in his case, he called her directly, but she didn't hand it off to Elliot, she ran it herself), and she ran cases where patrol officers did the shooting.  This was not only an OIS (of a protected witness, no less) this also was the death of an FBI agent inside Parker Center, killed by a civilian using an LAPD lieutenant's gun.  Methinks Captain Raydor would handle that, so - vacation is my head canon.

[katie9918]

Or Captain Raydor didn’t yet exist, so of course she wouldn’t be running an IA investigation at that time?

[Bastet]

Of course she didn't exist yet in their minds in season two, but when they did create her in season five, they gave her a backstory that already had her heading up FID by this time, so she retroactively did exist at the time of this incident.

[MaryMitch]

I loved "Serving the King" the first time I saw it, even though it confused me. Every time I watch it, I pick up a little bit more about what's happening. And it has one of my favorite characters - "Look what Elaine found!"  I wish we had seen her again.

Brenda really should have stayed in the CIA; her secretive nature was suited to it. Brenda is a character that I love to watch but I wouldn't like her as a person in real life. (Kinda like the characters on "Seinfeld".)

The best parts of "The Closer" are the scenes with the team working together. They really gelled in Season 2.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I love the scene in "Serving the King" when Brenda tells Provenza that she's keeping him a secret because he's to tell everything that she found out if she gets killed too, by whoever killed the other five people in the Operation.      

The earlier shows are long enough ago that I don't remember who killed the person, most of the time at least.   So it's almost like they're new to me.     

Edited August 19, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[Writing Wrongs]

I just started watching this show and have been marathoning it like crazy. I'm in Season 4 now. I wasn't sure if I would like it. I had to get passed her accent and the first season stuff of her team treating her like shit and I hated Taylor so much. But it got better and better and now I love the show.

[Bastet]

The other day I had too many things in my hand and knew it but was hoping it would work out, and when I inevitably lost my grip and papers scattered, I said, "Oh, for heaven's sakes!"  I don't normally say that; that was pure exposure to multiple episodes of Brenda per week.

In Dumb Luck, I hope these bio-terrorism suits were constructed out of lighter (and breathable) material and just made to look like the real thing, or these poor actors deserved hazard pay.

I knew right away that one pair of legs belonged to Brenda, not for the reason Flynn did, but because that skirt/dress and shoe combination was a giveaway. 

[Bastet]

Oh, watching The Round File, I just had a wonderful flashback to when I first watched this series, on DVD, and got to the gag reel for this season -- the details are a little fuzzy, but Kyra Sedgwick explained something basic* to Nina Foch (the homeowner, her last screen role), and Foch perfectly responded, basically, "Honey, I've been doing this for over 60 years; I know."  Sedgwick immediately gave her props.

*It might have been one of the times when a passing airplane ruined a take, and what Sedgwick did was explain to Foch why she was pausing.

And, yay, we've entered the Dr. Morales era.

[andromeda331]

I really liked the Round File it hit so many different notes. Funny with Flynn pushing Provenza down the hall in the beginning of the episode, Brenda writing Rumplestiltskein (sp?) on the board until she learned his name, and Provenza's remark to Gabriel how he wouldn't need to beat the suspect since he's been confessing all morning. To the sadness of how the victims ended up in cans and shoe boxes or with the dog. Provenza wondering how Baxter ended up at the senior center and you can see him thinking that might be where he ends up and Sanchez telling him he'd visit. Sanchez's remark about how white people spend so much money to put relatives there while they put out some rugs in the garage and everyone is welcome. Provenza really seemed to be hit hard by Baxter and where he ended up and the way he quietly told Baxter's son that his father was there if he wanted to see him. Provenza probably doesn't have good relationships with his kids either. I love Brenda's remarks as she arresting the guy how jail really isn't that different from Summerville. That guy was a piece of work. The elderly lady putting her house up for sale so she could have company. Its a good, funny, sad and hard episode all together.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I know they do some ridiculous plots on this show, just like every other show, but in "Manhunt" Brenda going out alone to talk to the ex-husband of a murdered woman was ludicrous.   I know it was just to set up the attack, but that was truly bizarre and would never happen in real life.   I guess any other scenario would have involved someone rushing in to save Brenda, but that ending was all kinds of wrong.    

The little old lady faking selling the house like that is so sad, but it really does happen.   

Edited August 25, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[Bastet]

On 8/25/2018 at 12:49 AM, andromeda331 said:

Provenza probably doesn't have good relationships with his kids either.

He describes his parenting/grandparenting philosophy in an episode of Major Crimes, and it is very hands-off.  He sees them on birthdays, Father's Day, and Christmas, basically. 

[raven]

Another thing I liked about the Round File is that Baxter's son, while harsh, isn't portrayed as a total ass.  He says his father was always busy and never there.  Sometimes you end up reaping what you sow.  The lady faking the house selling was sad, but it could be that she was completely awful to her kids (I think she mentions kids).

Heh, the term I've always used is "circular file".

"Dumb Luck" is one of those wacky episodes that worked; the guest stars really threw themselves into their stereotypes (the buff, dumb hitman, though seen briefly, was funny); Brenda's OTT frustration with her squad in the hazsuits; said squad in the suits (except Provenza); the witness who needed his dental floss.  

I had forgotten that the guest stars were usually pretty good.   Last week we had "Ruby" with the child murderer and when he was crying after being beaten, I almost felt sorry for him (then remembered what he had done).  Then when we he feels safe again, he reverts back to murderous scumbag.  I thought the actor did a really good job.

I found myself more sympathetic to Gabriel then I remembered - at least they gave his character another layer besides "the guy who always goes by the book".   Of course it was wrong but at least they gave him one of the worst types of criminals to snap on.