The Closer - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. I couldn't believe that he wanted to protect a murderer. It bugged me that Gabriel didn't seem to have a problem that he killed his brother, he covered it up, showed up three different times to through his weigh around (aka keep them from solving the case), threatened a riot, and also as Brenda was interrogating him bring up the fact he tried to block building in the area where he knew his brother's body was. But I did like him breaking down in the interrogation room. I liked Brenda and Father Jack's interactions. Provenza's "And you thought nuns were tough." comment to Father Jack. His attempting to remembered by looking around the squad room. I too really liked Flynn's and Gabriel's back and forth it was really good.  I really liked at the end when Brenda tries to tell Provenza it really wasn't his fault the Riots were happening with a lot of murderers and stuff going on. Provenza's "I have a lot of really good excuses for not following up on a scared kid who wanted to turn his life around." 

Yeah Gabriel really pissed me off in that one, his behavior was inexcusable, he wanted to let a murderer walk just because he had done some good stuff since then and Gabriel liked his politics. I couldn’t stand Gabriel, so smug and sanctimonious yet he seemed to think the rules didn’t apply to him but was quick to judge others. He stuck out from the rest of the squad and not in a good way, he got a lot more airtime than everyone else as well as he was Brenda’s assistant who always drove her around and went everywhere with her, always doing interrogations with her etc, while the other squad members got nothing. Also notice how Gabriel wasn’t nearly as close to anyone as the rest of the squad members were to each other, and Flynn and Sanchez seemed to flat out dislike him. 

That is a terrific episode though, awesome for Provenza, his reactions to the case were very interesting and it was one of the times we saw his very caring side, and I loved Brenda’s final interrogation of the killer, as well as Provenza and Flynn’s comments to Father Jack and Flynn and Gabriel’s back and forth.

[andromeda331]

14 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Gabriel really pissed me off in that one, his behavior was inexcusable, he wanted to let a murderer walk just because he had done some good stuff since then and Gabriel liked his politics. I couldn’t stand Gabriel, so smug and sanctimonious yet he seemed to think the rules didn’t apply to him but was quick to judge others. He stuck out from the rest of the squad and not in a good way, he got a lot more airtime than everyone else as well as he was Brenda’s assistant who always drove her around and went everywhere with her, always doing interrogations with her etc, while the other squad members got nothing. Also notice how Gabriel wasn’t nearly as close to anyone as the rest of the squad members were to each other, and Flynn and Sanchez seemed to flat out dislike him. 

That is a terrific episode though, awesome for Provenza, his reactions to the case were very interesting and it was one of the times we saw his very caring side, and I loved Brenda’s final interrogation of the killer, as well as Provenza and Flynn’s comments to Father Jack and Flynn and Gabriel’s back and forth.

I liked Gabriel in the first season. Him telling Brenda early on he didn't know what she wanted from him and he's used to figuring that out. But then he turned into a jerk. Or maybe he always was one but he didn't show it in season one. Like agreeing to watch Kitty and her kittens. He defended her in season one. The first one was season two when he tells Brenda about Daniels' relationship with the cop who had been shot but didn't tell her of his own issues with the cop.   Grave Doubt was the next one he ticked me off.  His behavior towards Daniels after they broke up and going to Brenda to ask her to transfer Daniels. I do love how Brenda gives him the form to transfer for him instead and ask if he could do what Daniels does forensic accounting.  

[andromeda331]

What are your favorite episodes? I love so many of them but my favorite is Good Housekeeping. I love the end with Brenda telling that smug awful Austin that Marta was born in Mexico and since he won't come back with her he gets to spend time in a Mexican prison. Its so fun to watch him confessing knowing that'll be used against him in Mexico and he doesn't realize it.   

[ButterQueen]

I love Next of Kin.  The 2 part Christmas episode where the bank security guards were killed.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

I love Next of Kin.  The 2 part Christmas episode where the bank security guards were killed.

Road trip with Brenda's parents!
But now I'm thinking Wesley and Grady were trial runs for Rusty's character. :>(

[Xeliou66]

I love so many of the episodes, from both The Closer and Major Crimes, it’s hard to pick favorites. My favorite seasons of The Closer are 3 and 4, every episode from those seasons are great and can be watched over and over. 

I love Good Housekeeping as well when Brenda tricks that sociopath bastard Austin into confessing and tells him he’s going to spend the rest of his life in a Mexican prison, that was awesome. Overall I would say season 1 is my least favorite season because of how little we get of a lot of the characters, Flynn doesn’t even join Major Crimes until the end of season 1 and Provenza, Tao and Sanchez don’t get much screen time at all, it’s all Brenda, Gabriel, Pope, Taylor and Fritz. Season 2 they started developing everyone else and giving them more time and that was completed by season 3.

[Bastet]

I don't remember many of the pre-Sharon Raydor episodes anymore, but I love the "Skybox tickets?!" shenanigans, and I really love Cherry Bomb, because Brenda - who will normally stop at nothing (including, you know, extra-judicial execution, which is one of the many reasons I like Major Crimes so much more) when she thinks someone is getting away with murder - realizes the other young rape victim truly doesn't have it in her to come forward, and backs off, telling her, "You've already done enough things you didn't want to do."  It's a big moment for her, and it makes that girl later showing up in her office, ready to testify, all the more satisfying (what Brenda thought was a murder at the time she backed off was actually a suicide, but now they could still go after him for rape). 

Of the Sharon episodes, it's hard to pick a favorite, but the two-part Living Proof is a top contender -- it's a brilliant combination of gruesome case (the war criminal stealing the identity of one of his victims) and hilarious hijinks.  And a Christmas episode, which is always good.  I love every minute of those two hours.  Also Death Warrant, because, hello, bean bag gun!  Also "Why would I lose her?" and that face as she hangs up.

I also like the "Daddy Say Yes" teen star one, for Gavin and Sharon snacking on Twizzlers as they watch Brenda trick the wife/mom into confessing.

[Xeliou66]

I love Cherry Bomb as well, I watched that one recently and its one of my favorites, one of the best episodes for Brenda and Taylor. The Sheriff’s commander and his rapist son were both awful all around, extremely satisfying to see them both go down. Probably my favorite episode for Taylor, it really showed a different side to him and the progression of his relationship with Brenda, they were finally on rather friendly terms by this point, note how in this episode Taylor addressed her as “Brenda” for the first time, and maybe the only time, whereas he usually just called her “Chief” and she always called him “Commander”, in fact I never remember anyone addressing Taylor by his first name, always just Chief/Commander/Captain or Taylor, only time I can remember anyone calling him Russell is Fritz referring to him by his first name after his murder. Cherry Bomb showed how Taylor had lost a lot of his resentment towards Brenda for taking the job he thought should’ve been his and that they had come to a more mutual respect after being antogonistic for a while. I also liked seeing Brenda’s compassion for the girl who had been raped by the piece of shit and was reluctant to come forward, also it was one of the first times we saw an emotional side to Dr Morales, who usually had an upbeat disposition, it was obvious how he was affected when telling them about the brutal nature of the girl’s rape.one of the show’s best episodes for sure, and probably my favorite one that doesn’t have much of the ensemble, I usually don’t care for those but this one was very good.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Xeliou66

[Xeliou66]

One of the most sympathetic killers in the history of this franchise was the dad in Problem Child who killed the psycho freak adopted son Sergei IMO. Sergei was no doubt a serial killer in the making, he was already a serial killer of animals and had terrorized the family and the neighborhood, I can’t really blame the father for wanting to stop Sergei and protect his family, I really sympathized with him. Did you find him sympathetic or not? I found it interesting how Brenda didn’t feel any sympathy for him and went after him hard.

[MaryMitch]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

One of the most sympathetic killers in the history of this franchise was the dad in Problem Child who killed the psycho freak adopted son Sergei IMO. Sergei was no doubt a serial killer in the making, he was already a serial killer of animals and had terrorized the family and the neighborhood, I can’t really blame the father for wanting to stop Sergei and protect his family, I really sympathized with him. Did you find him sympathetic or not? I found it interesting how Brenda didn’t feel any sympathy for him and went after him hard.

I think he (the father) just snapped, and I can't say I blame him.  I think Brenda's attitude was more a reaction to the blase attitude to his missing status the squad initially had due to his age.

I read an article last year about a place that tries to socialize children who have psychopathic personalities; those children were showing symptoms at a very young age, like 3 or 4. They are broken and can't really be fixed, but they can sometimes be taught to live in society. I don't think Sergei could be "fixed", and he may never have been able to control his psychosis.

[Xeliou66]

I was watching the episode where Sanchez’ brother was shot and killed after being mistaken for a gang member, that’s is an outstanding episode and one of Julio’s best. It was very interesting to see how Julio went from being in shock and then in denial and then finally the grief overwhelmed him. 

I find it noticeable and interesting how Julio immediately spoke to Provenza when he came into the waiting room, as though he was surprised that Provenza was there, even more so than Pope or Taylor, and asked Provenza if he was hungry. Julio always admired Provenza, always calling him “sir” and always seeming to look up to him, and that was a notable example and Provenza always seemed to have a soft spot for Julio and care for him deeply. I always loved their relationship, I loved both of them and their relationship particularly stood out as close. And of course Julio breaking down crying in Provenza’s arms was a memorable and emotional scene to end the episode on, and I was glad it was Provenza who comforted Julio.

I was somewhat irritated with Brenda’s self righteous tone with Tao after she discovered Tao feeding information to Sanchez. While Julio shouldn’t be involved with the investigation, he did know the neighborhood and the people in it better than anyone else, and he could be helpful in that regard, and Brenda wasn’t Julio’s friend like she claimed, she never even addressed him by his first name until this episode, whereas Tao and Sanchez were good friends, I always liked their friendship as well and we saw it in this episode with Tao inviting Julio to his house for dinner after his brothers death and I loved getting to meet Tao’s wife briefly in this episode, it showed that Julio was close with Tao’s family and knew them well, something we saw again when we met Tao’s son and he called Sanchez “uncle Julio”. 

The scene where Provenza takes off his shoes and sticks his feet in the boat/makeshift pool was funny, as was Flynn’s comment about the boat being full of water and morons. 

I did wonder where Daniels was in this episode, that wasn’t explained.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Xeliou66

[ButterQueen]

Just a heads up......

Beginning 7/6 at 6 pm, Lifetime will start showing reruns of The Closer.  Looks like they will show 6 episodes, and then repeat those same episodes.  I can’t retrieve 7/7 yet to see if it continues, but I hope so.  I own all the dvd’s, but love having the episodes on my DVR.

[Bastet]

I should try this show again.  Major Crimes pretty much ruined the non-Sharon episodes of The Closer for me -- other than a few favorites, if I try to watch one of those, I just spend the whole time wishing Sharon was there -- but I'll give it another whirl.  Thanks for the heads-up.

[andromeda331]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 7:14 AM, ButterQueen said:

Just a heads up......

Beginning 7/6 at 6 pm, Lifetime will start showing reruns of The Closer.  Looks like they will show 6 episodes, and then repeat those same episodes.  I can’t retrieve 7/7 yet to see if it continues, but I hope so.  I own all the dvd’s, but love having the episodes on my DVR.

Yes! That's great! I can't wait!

[Sharonana]

For those of you that have Amazon Prime, they are now showing seasons 1-7. Yay!!! I'm so excited! :D

[Bastet]

On 6/23/2018 at 6:14 AM, ButterQueen said:

Beginning 7/6 at 6 pm, Lifetime will start showing reruns of The Closer.  Looks like they will show 6 episodes, and then repeat those same episodes.  I can’t retrieve 7/7 yet to see if it continues, but I hope so.

I just checked the schedule on the website - holy crap, the programming on Lifetime sucks! - and it seems to be a Friday thing.  They air the first six episodes* this Friday (and repeat episodes three through six overnight), then next Friday they repeat episodes five and six and then air seven through ten (and repeat some overnight as before).  The following Friday isn't yet listed, but the pattern probably holds - Lifetime seems to air programming in big chunks.

(*I'm assuming; I don't know titles of this show, so I just counted number of different titles and assumed they were in order, but that's what you said, too, so I think it's right.)

I don't watch anything on Friday nights, so if I'm home I'll definitely give this another whirl -- and my friend just gave me the Major Crimes DVDs as a thank-you gift, so I can always pop those in afterward to alleviate my "Ugh, this is so much better with Sharon, and the team getting something to do" retroactive frustration with the show.  Best of both worlds.

[kassygreene]

The show is going to be on Lifetime and Lifetime Movie.  I use the online cable listings to look for when and where shows will be - tvschedule dot zap2it dot com lets me pick a channel line up by zip code and provider (or broadcast), and you can search for approximately two weeks in the future - for this one I search on the show and check all upcoming episodes.

I also have my cable company's listings - xfinity - which lets me see the schedule about three weeks in advance.

And as someone helpfully pointed out upthread, Amazon Prime has the complete series now, so I don't have to work out six-hour recordings on my old vcr, because somehow I don't think this will show up on demand....

[starri]

Here's an episode from S7 that I don't remember at all.  A large part of the plot involves Tao's son hanging around the murder room.  Almost seems like a trial run for Rusty in spots.

I don't remember the episode, but I do remember the scene of Sharon begging Brenda to get her own lawyer in the Turrell Baylor lawsuit.  Weird.

[Bastet]

On 7/4/2018 at 5:17 PM, starri said:

I don't remember the episode, but I do remember the scene of Sharon begging Brenda to get her own lawyer in the Turrell Baylor lawsuit.  Weird.

One of my favorites!  I love that Sharon taking her to the scene and making her face the step-by-step reality of what she set in motion finally makes a dent in Brenda's thick skull.

And, yes, I think of Cathy Tao giving Mike shit for having Kevin there - and the various WTF? reactions to Brenda plopping Charlie down in the murder room in another episode - often in the early days of Rusty, the Squad Mascot, on Major Crimes.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Bastet

[Bastet]

Oh my.  I remembered that I absolutely hated Andy and Taylor in the beginning, but I forgot that I hated pretty much all of them.  Watching the pilot, it seems impossible to believe Provenza wound up being one of my favorites!

[raven]

I got a kick out of flirty Brenda with Fritz.

ETA: I always remembered the beginning of Ep 2 where Brenda is lost and later in the ep Gabriel insists on driving her by telling her something like "you don't want to be lost again" or some such.  I don't remember which of these early eps is the one where Provenza helps her carry the boxes to her office though.

[Bastet]

I wish they'd left in the scene in episode two where all dressed-up, made-up Brenda is waiting for Fritz at the restaurant and he doesn't recognize her when he first walks in - he looks, smiles, and keeps right on walking.  The way she asks, "What do I normally look like?!" joins Gabriel and the kittens (or maybe Fritz and the kittens; I know that scene was deleted, but I have it in my head that part of the Gabriel/kittens scene was, too) as the only two deleted scenes I remember from the series.

And, hey, this red and white dress she bought is the one she wears for her interview with the mayor for Chief of Police (when Sharon begs her to wear something different than her usual flowery frocks), right?

Edited July 7, 2018 by Bastet

[raven]

36 minutes ago, Bastet said:

And, hey, this red and white dress she bought is the one she wears for her interview with the mayor for Chief of Police (when Sharon begs her to wear something different than her usual flowery frocks), right?

Good eye!

I always liked Gabriel and his relationship with Brenda, until he acted like a jerk when he was in a relationship with Daniels.  I haven't watched this show in years but it was must see TV for me when it was on.

[Bastet]

53 minutes ago, raven said:

I always liked Gabriel and his relationship with Brenda, until he acted like a jerk when he was in a relationship with Daniels. 

Yes!  I liked him so much until that, and then I wanted to smack him all the time.

I forgot Taylor was a captain, not a commander, when the show started - every time I hear "Captain Taylor," it takes my brain a second to adjust.

[Bastet]

Hee.  As a Sharon Raydor fan(atic), hearing the squad react with surprise that Brenda had been the subject of an ethics investigation in Atlanta, because she's so about the rules, had me howling with laughter.  Now that's a line that's only properly appreciated in hindsight!

One of the few things I prefer about The Closer to Major Crimes is that Buzz doesn't do much more than say, "Yes, ma'am."  And, holy crap, what is with his hair?!  I had blocked that from my memory.

Fritz's annoying habit in later seasons of a) bugging Brenda about having kids when she's already said she doesn't want them and b) acting like it's new - and unacceptable - that her job can be dangerous remaining big downsides, he is still my TV boyfriend.  I'm enjoying revisiting his early days as much as anything else.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Bastet

[Bastet]

Wow.  They waited a whole six episodes to subject the female lead to sexualized violence. 

I do like the way her reaction is written, though, as I recall.

[andromeda331]

I'm glad the show's back on TV. I always forgot how badly the squad treated Brenda in the beginning too.  Especially Flynn. Or that I ended up loving Flynn by the end of the series to. And Provenza. Basically everyone except Gabriel when he was such a jerk after things ended with Daniels or him failing to tell Brenda about his own relationship with the cop that was murdered in season two while he was so quick to tell Brenda about Daniels' relationship with the same person or wanting Brenda to let man who murdered his brother years ago to walk. 

[Bastet]

I got antsy calculating how long it will take Lifetime to get to season five, so while taking care of the cats of my friend who has this series on DVD, I borrowed season five to watch Sharon's original three episodes.  I had completely forgotten that her first episode, Red Tape, is also the episode in which Kitty is put to sleep.  I cried my way through it again.  The cat looks so sick and miserable, and the way Brenda and Fritz are written is perfect - he knows it's time, and he tells her that - more than once - but without pushing her.  And it works, because in the end she admits on her own that she's not ready, but Kitty is, and she has to do what's best for Kitty, not for her.  And then that "I wish I knew what you were thinking" moment, when she tells Kitty whatever she thinks is about to happen to her is only because Brenda loves her so much.

And then I had to watch Walking Back The Cat before I went on to Sharon's next episode, because I love all the stuff with Kitty's ashes (Fritz trying to hide them, Brenda wailing "it's not ashes, it's chunks" and that they put him in a plastic bag ["Her.  They put her in a plastic bag."] - and then putting them in Tupperware instead, Brenda wanting to scatter them someplace Kitty loved and Fritz asking, "Where?  She was never allowed to go outside," Brenda carrying them around in her purse, and Pope's "maybe you should stop bringing your dead cat to work" reaction) and Brenda and Fritz sitting down to watch one of Kitty's nature videos at the end. 

This show depicted pet ownership better than just about any I've ever seen.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

I got antsy calculating how long it will take Lifetime to get to season five, so while taking care of the cats of my friend who has this series on DVD, I borrowed season five to watch Sharon's original three episodes.  I had completely forgotten that her first episode, Red Tape, is also the episode in which Kitty is put to sleep.  I cried my way through it again.  The cat looks so sick and miserable, and the way Brenda and Fritz are written is perfect - he knows it's time, and he tells her that - more than once - but without pushing her.  And it works, because in the end she admits on her own that she's not ready, but Kitty is, and she has to do what's best for Kitty, not for her.  And then that "I wish I knew what you were thinking" moment, when she tells Kitty whatever she thinks is about to happen to her is only because Brenda loves her so much.

And then I had to watch Walking Back The Cat before I went on to Sharon's next episode, because I love all the stuff with Kitty's ashes (Fritz trying to hide them, Brenda wailing "it's not ashes, it's chunks" and that they put him in a plastic bag ["Her.  They put her in a plastic bag."] - and then putting them in Tupperware instead, Brenda wanting to scatter them someplace Kitty loved and Fritz asking, "Where?  She was never allowed to go outside," Brenda carrying them around in her purse, and Pope's "maybe you should stop bringing your dead cat to work" reaction) and Brenda and Fritz sitting down to watch one of Kitty's nature videos at the end. 

This show depicted pet ownership better than just about any I've ever seen.

It really did. Watching Brenda talk to her cat before she's put down, anyone who's ever had a pet and had to do that knows how it feels. You don't want to, your never ready and you hope your pet knows your doing it out of love to put them out of their misery. I loved Brenda getting upset because Kitty labeled Howard and not Johnson. I love they got an urn and put her on the fireplace. And watching one of Kitty's favorite videos. I love her reluctance to the new kitten Fritz gets for her. Its hard to start over again knowing it'll probably end up the same. But gets won over. Also, Brenda's reaction to Kitty's kitties. How cute they are. Its not really one you'd expect from her. Plus the joke about how she ended up with too many cats. I do wish we had gotten to see the kittens go to their new homes. Maybe Brenda doing background checks to make sure they'll treat their new kitten well.

[Bastet]

In addition to the raw honesty of the scene in which they have to let Kitty go - which isn't common on TV (and is something they probably would not have opted for on this show had it not been necessitated by the real Miss Kitty's impending demise) - it was the simple fact this was one of the few shows with a pet-owning character where we routinely saw the pet.  I know the norm is just a reality of production - animals (especially cats) are hard to work with and make a long day of shooting even longer.  But we saw Kitty, and then Joel, in a lot of shots - on the couch, on the bed, walking through the room, being shooed off the table, etc.  And Fritz and Brenda talked to, and about, the cats, like real pet owners do. 

Brenda just sort of stumbled into pet ownership, and she wasn't particularly good at it initially (I was so glad for Kitty that Fritz was around, too), but she fell in love with Kitty, lived up to her responsibilities to her, got her heart broken, swore she wasn't going through it again (complete with loading up all of Kitty's stuff to donate and telling Fritz to take Joel back), and then fell in love with Joel and signed up to go through it all over again some day.  How many people does that happen to, and yet we almost never see it on TV.

I remember a friend telling me that Kyra Sedgwick had gone through this with her own cat not long before filming Kitty's finale, so she must have been emotionally wiped out by the experience; I hope it was the last thing she had to shoot for the day!

[Bastet]

I continued on with my skipping ahead to the Sharon Raydor years via DVD, but in season six I had to watch part of Layover, a non-Sharon episode, because Brenda's disgusted face when she realizes why Provenza cannot stand up and help is emblazoned on my mind to this day and I had to relive it.  Ha!  I also love Andy handing him a pillow, and telling him, "Okay, but according to the commercial, in another [hour?] you're going to have to see a doctor."  I then skipped ahead to Pope getting the story, so I could hear, "What is this, the seventies?" in response to Brenda saying Flynn and Provenza picked up a couple of flight attendants while escorting a fugitive back to L.A.  (I'd have watched the whole thing, but I needed to go to sleep.)

When I got to season seven, I watched Death Warrant twice.  I love that episode so much, mostly for Sharon, but I also get Andrea Hobbs and Gavin.  Tonight I'll be starting with Fresh Pursuit, woo!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

When I got to season seven, I watched Death Warrant twice.  I love that episode so much, mostly for Sharon, but I also get Andrea Hobbs and Gavin

Ah, Gavin! The only role in which I really enjoyed Mark Pellegrino. I just discovered on IMDb that the character's full name was Gavin Q. Baker III (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1985832/characters/nm0671032?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t19 ). Heh. Could've been a great spinoff:

Quote

Andy Flynn : Wait up, Gavin. Did you learn anything? 

Gavin Q. Baker III : Nothing I didn't already suspect. See, everyone here talks to everyone else here about everything; so, if one person knows something, you all do. So, to that leak that you don't think exists, can you PLEASE tell Mr. Goldman that he can sneak around all he wants to, but if this case ever gets to a courtroom, I win. No matter what he thinks he knows, I win. No matter what lies he gets passed, I win. But, in the meantime, please be safe, everybody. It is a rough world out there, and it's getting rougher every day.

[Bastet]

Just now, shapeshifter said:

I just discovered on IMDb that the character's full name was Gavin Q. Baker III

Oh, indeed.  I've had that in my head ever since my first watch, because of course he's a III and has a Q (Quentin?) middle name.  I adore him - for his reactions to Brenda, to his City Attorney history with Andy, and that he's friends with Sharon - and, while it's pretty far down on the (to be fair, short) list of things for which I wind up angry at James Duff, his aborted promise to bring Gavin back (via his friendship with Sharon) on Major Crimes irks me. 

I think I wind up irritated with Gavin - who should be concerned only with Brenda, not the LAPD as a whole (as he was when confirming Sharon's suspicion there was something problematic with the initial settlement offer everyone but Sharon wanted Brenda to sign off on and tossing it in the trash) - in the Johnson Rule settlement (which, again, my pal Sharon attempts to refuse on behalf of the LAPD even though it's a save for the department and only bad for Brenda), but I need to watch the specifics of the lawsuit storyline again.  Such a hardship; I'd become rather tired of Brenda, and then this lawsuit popped up that took a stark look at the problems I had with her, and my interest in the show was rejuvenated.

[Bastet]

So much of the first season's humor rests on Brenda not knowing where the hell anything is in L.A., so this would have been a different show had GPS navigation aids already been ubiquitous when it premiered.

[Bastet]

I like anything Stephen Tobolowsky is in.  Is The Butler Did It Provenza's first "I don't climb" of the series?

These early credits are interesting in hindsight, and also a little disturbing -- Gina Rivera, Michael Paul Chan, and Raymond Cruz are not in the main credits, but are instead listed as guest stars.  So three of the four people of color playing squad members are not in the main credits (even though Tony Denison, whose character is on occasional loan from Robbery-Homicide at this point and thus appears less frequently than they do, is; even when, like this episode, he doesn't appear at all).

I still can't get over Buzz's shaggy surfer hair; I had completely repressed that from my memory.

[Bastet]

(Spoiler tagged because it happens in Major Crimes rather than this show.)  Wow; that homophobe Andy Flynn

Spoiler

winds up with a gay stepson, to whom fellow homophobe Louie Provenza is a beloved friend/protector, is unfathomable at this early point. 

I really had forgotten how awful most of these characters are in the beginning.  On that note, good gods, Sanchez is a creep.

Speaking of creeps - Taylor.  It's amusing that the squad deciding they hate him even more than they hate Brenda is what starts to thaw them towards her.  Brenda's "You are beneath me ... in rank" smackdown is wonderful.  I look forward to seeing again how that ultimately plays out in the season finale when everyone - including Andy, having been screwed over by his buddy Taylor - submits their resignation, which Brenda tosses one by one, just like she did with their transfer requests in the pilot. 

Hee; I think this early stretch of episodes (this time, Batter Up) is also when we first learn that Provenza doesn't want anyone touching his desk.  I love that it never changes.

I laughed out loud when Pope told Gabriel, "You could learn a thing or two from her" about Brenda, and then clarified, "Just about interrogation -- ignore all the rest."  Because, yeah.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

(Spoiler tagged because it happens in Major Crimes rather than this show.)  Wow; that homophobe Andy Flynn

  Reveal hidden contents

winds up with a gay stepson, to whom fellow homophobe Louie Provenza is a beloved friend/protector, is unfathomable at this early point. 

I really had forgotten how awful most of these characters are in the beginning.  On that note, good gods, Sanchez is a creep.

Speaking of creeps - Taylor.  It's amusing that the squad deciding they hate him even more than they hate Brenda is what starts to thaw them towards her.  Brenda's "You are beneath me ... in rank" smackdown is wonderful.  I look forward to seeing again how that ultimately plays out in the season finale when everyone - including Andy, having been screwed over by his buddy Taylor - submits their resignation, which Brenda tosses one by one, just like she did with their transfer requests in the pilot. 

Hee; I think this early stretch of episodes (this time, Batter Up) is also when we first learn that Provenza doesn't want anyone touching his desk.  I love that it never changes.

I laughed out loud when Pope told Gabriel, "You could learn a thing or two from her" about Brenda, and then clarified, "Just about interrogation -- ignore all the rest."  Because, yeah.

Me too. Especially looking forward to Brenda's apology in the last episode of the season. 

[Raja]

I think the thaw started when Chief Johnson's previous affair with Chief Pope was publicly outed by his wife. However always remember the premise of the show. Chief Johnson was actually doing a Lieutenant's job but since she could only be hired as a rookie needing to go through the academy and a probationary year or as a Chief, like real life LAPD chiefs who were not state approved police officers Willie Williams from Philadelphia after the Rodney King Riots  and WWII USMC General William Worton as an interim Chief before William Parker gave us the Jack Webb Dragnet era LAPD.

 

So as a functional Lieutenant that Commander Taylor had to call "chief" it had to make him angry just like a later episode where a mere detective wasn't backing down to "Chief" Johnson.. Around the time Captain Raydor showed up as a publicly known Chief, even if still in a Lieutenant's job, Chief Johnson for gender politics reasons was in the running for Chief Of Police. Even at the end of The Closer's run when Priority Homicide Divsion became a full fledged Major Crimes Division, even if still a small squad size unit, Lieutenant Provenza surely expected to take command upon the Chief's retirement.

[raven]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

I really had forgotten how awful most of these characters are in the beginning.  On that note, good gods, Sanchez is a creep.

I forgot this too.   In "Flashpoint" (about the murder of a doctor prescribing meds for teens) Provenza, Flynn, etc are leering while watching a teen girl (granted, the actress was probably in her 20s, but not the point) talking to Brenda, including angling the camera at the "teen's" boobs.   

Also, I can't remember if I'm pinpointing the murderers so quickly because I've seen these all before or if because the cases aren't very complex.  Probably the latter.

[shapeshifter]

Thank you for explaining that^^, @Raja; I never really understood it, although the sense of injustice oozing from Taylor towards Brenda was clear to me (good acting).

I have access through my daughter's Amazon Prime (right?) to the episodes. If anyone wants to get into an in-depth discussion--perhaps of one now airing on Lifetime--I should be able to watch it and join in.

[Bastet]

Maybe as I watch each week I should tally each time Brenda says a genuine "thank you" to someone throughout the series (I certainly won't wear out my pencil doing so), because I remain convinced she said more such thank-yous to Sharon in the final season than she has to everyone else in her life combined.  Wistful sigh - I love Major Crimes, and more than this show, so I can't complain, but the evolving dynamic between Brenda and Sharon became my favorite thing about The Closer, so I would have liked one more season with both of them.  Alas, that wouldn't have made sense, because based on everything that happened, it was time for Brenda to go, and if all that hadn't happened, their relationship would have evolved more slowly, if at all.  So it's just some weird little alternate universe I think about when I watch the Sharon episodes of seasons six and seven.

Speaking of those episodes, the season seven Flynn/Provenza caper, with Provenza's ex-wife Liz and her bulldog Frank, provides the truly hilarious sight of Provenza in the back seat with the dog - Provenza says the dog is seriously ugly, Liz says she has a type, and I realize Provenza's and Frank's faces totally do match. 

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Me too. Especially looking forward to Brenda's apology in the last episode of the season. 

Oh, yes.  It's epic. 

[Bastet]

I just watched the series finale so I can give my friend her DVD back when I see her tonight, and I think it's one of my favorites.  I usually wind up disappointed in series finales, and I remember being nervous for this one, because when shows write women leaving jobs they love as a way of ending things, her reasoning usually makes no sense to me (hello, Rizzoli & Isles).  But I like this one.  I think it helped immensely that the show was basically continuing -- everyone else (besides Gabriel) just carries on, and the only task is to explain why Brenda would be gone.

And, sure, it's utterly ridiculous to object to being reprimanded for her attack on Stroh in the elevator, since from the moment she did it she knew she was going to be suspended and probably fired, so reprimanded was a pretty good outcome.  But, you know, Brenda is utterly ridiculous sometimes.  And she'd had enough.  Between the Johnson Rule, learning how much interference Pope and Raydor had to run for her - and Major Crimes - to have not been shelved already, her mother's death, and what Rusty was saying to her, she was finally waking up to what her obsession was doing to her and those around her.  When the DA Office job offer came along at exactly the right time, it actually made sense for her to do the "You can't fire me, I quit" routine, despite the fact she could have kept the job and team she loved if she'd accepted the reprimand. 

She's doing something different, but that still lets her get in the trenches when she wants to.  She's not running back to Atlanta or vowing to sit at home and be attentive to Fritz.  It's a completely inoffensive way of writing her out, and I breathed a sigh of relief.  She got an ending that honored the good she'd done without looking the other way on the bad.  And a replacement purse, filled with Ding Dongs.  I love it.  I wanted to see her goodbye with Sharon, but I love it as-is.

[shapeshifter]

I loved that the first episode of the series and the finale seven years later had Brenda say the same line, "It looks like love."

 

I wonder if the real reason they never had any Kyra Sedgewick cameos on Major Crimes was concern that Brenda's larger-than-life personality would overshadow Mary McDonnell's quiet, reserved Sharon, which was okay on The Closer, but not appropriate for Major Crimes.

[Bastet]

I remember being taken aback by this the first time, too -- Brenda and Fritz's relationship moves fast (not as fast as it seems by watching all these in a row, but even looking up the air dates and assuming as much time passed on the show as during the hiatus between seasons one and two, it's only a year between running into each other again and moving in together.  (They only knew each other professionally in D.C., right - they didn't date until now?)

I know how Brenda's parents are, and how she is with them, but I still can't believe she's going to try to hide living with Fritz from them.  In fact, she's afraid of them finding out she even has a boyfriend.  Grow up!

Hee - Brenda swearing off sugar.  (And banning it from the murder room - because that's fair.)

I'm annoyed with myself - I lost track of time and didn't tune in until the 6:00 episode, which means I missed the season one finale with Brenda's epic "apology."  I missed even more than that, since I thought the new episodes started at 5:00 like last week, not at 3:00 like the first week. (I'm on the West coast but I get the East coast feed on my satellite.)  Grrr.  I'll have to see which ones re-run tonight (plus, I think they repeat on Wednesdays, too).

Edited July 21, 2018 by Bastet

[Bastet]

The Provenza and Willie Rae stuff in Mom Duty is making me laugh on its own, and also because it's making me think of the later episode when he grabs Brenda's picture of her off her desk (when he and Flynn managed to have their car, with evidence in the trunk, stolen out from under their noses and he needs a picture of an old woman to trick the suspect) and Pope, from whom they are trying to hide the latest Flynn/Provenza disaster, is baffled, so Brenda says something about, "He's so fond of my mother."

Glendale has a large Armenian population, so I understand their impulse to set this case there, but Glendale is not part of Los Angeles (the county, yes, but not the city; Glendale is its own city, with its own police department).  They should have thrown in a line about LAPD's assistance being requested for some reason, because without that it makes no sense for this to be Flynn's case.

[Bastet]

Yay - the season one finale is being re-run tonight, so I don't have to wait until Wednesday.

Provenza imitating Brenda at the crime scene is great, as is Brenda giving it right back to him, and then his good-natured, "This is a crime scene, y'all" at the end.  It nicely foreshadows the solidarity at the end of the episode.

Daniels "drowning" Sanchez, and Brenda - and everyone - laughing is even better.

I noted that I'd forgotten that Taylor was a captain when the show started, and that means I had completely forgotten the horse trade in which Pope makes Taylor a commander in exchange for him withdrawing his anonymous "conduct unbecoming" complaint.

Random thing I keep meaning to mention: I like how many people on this show wear glasses, either to read or all the time.  It's a small thing, but in real life there are a lot of us bespectacled folks, but on TV glasses are still disturbingly relegated to being merely a prop used to indicate a character as a geek.

I don't know how, given how much I like her (Any Day Now fan for life), I had forgotten that Lorraine Toussaint played the DA Brenda "apologized" to.  But, oh gods, Pope's laugh afterward, I remembered.  And Brenda tossing everyone's resignation and finally joining in on their post-case celebration. 

But let's just re-live the glory that is the "apology" itself, shall we:
 

Quote

 

I'd like to start with you, Ms. Powell.  I'd like to say how sorry I am that I was unable to ignore your general level of incompetence in the wrongly-obtained conviction in the case of Bill Croelick.  And I'm sorry if you felt hurt and defensive about putting a man on death row for the wrong crime, and I certainly hope that that will never ever happen again. 

Agent Jackson, I deeply regret that the FBI handed over two million dollars to a man on a terrorist watch list without the capacity to trace it, or managed to follow him for months without knowing his wife was having an affair with the doctor.  And I hope you do much better in the future.

Captain Taylor, I suppose I should apologize to you for not having been born in Los Angeles, but, having seen your work up close now for several months, I can honestly say that, try as I might, I can't think of any fair and reasonable system on Earth where I wouldn't outrank you.

There, I hope that clears everything up.  Well, excuse me, I have to go.  Thank you very much. Thank you.

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yay - the season one finale is being re-run tonight, so I don't have to wait until Wednesday.

Provenza imitating Brenda at the crime scene is great, as is Brenda giving it right back to him, and then his good-natured, "This is a crime scene, y'all" at the end.  It nicely foreshadows the solidarity at the end of the episode.

Daniels "drowning" Sanchez and Brenda - and everyone - laughing is even better.

I noted that I'd forgotten that Taylor was a captain when the show started, and that means I had completely forgotten the horse trade in which Pope makes Taylor a commander in exchange for him withdrawing his anonymous "conduct unbecoming" complaint.

Random thing I keep meaning to mention: I like how many people on this show wear glasses, either to read or all the time.  It's a small thing, but in real life there are a lot of us bespectacled folks, but on TV glasses are still disturbingly relegated to being merely a prop used to indicate a character as a geek.

I don't know how, given how much I like her (Any Day Now fan for life), I had forgotten that Lorraine Toussaint played the DA Brenda "apologized" to.  But, oh gods, Pope's laugh afterward, I remembered.  And Brenda tossing everyone's resignation and finally joining in on their post-case celebration. 

But let's just re-live the glory that is the "apology" itself, shall we:
 

 I love that apology. Its just so awesome. 

I love Provenza imitating Brenda and he did a really good job. 

I remember hating and still hate the deal Pope made with Taylor. After all the crap he's pulled he ends up Commander. I know he gets better later but he was horrible early on. Plus as Brenda says in her awesome apology we've seen his work up close and it really is crappy. Forcing that confession from Blake Rawlings, suggesting no one does anything when Lisa Barnes turned out to have just died and not years ago. I love that he throws Flynn under the bus in that one and then is shocked at the end of the episode when Flynn tells him he's transferring to Brenda's squad.

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

The Provenza and Willie Rae stuff in Mom Duty is making me laugh on its own, and also because it's making me think of the later episode when he grabs Brenda's picture of her off her desk (when he and Flynn managed to have their car, with evidence in the trunk, stolen out from under their noses and he needs a picture of an old woman to trick the suspect) and Pope, from whom they are trying to hide the latest Flynn/Provenza disaster, is baffled, so Brenda says something about, "He's so fond of my mother."

Glendale has a large Armenian population, so I understand their impulse to set this case there, but Glendale is not part of Los Angeles (the county, yes, but not the city; Glendale is its own city, with its own police department).  They should have thrown in a line about LAPD's assistance being requested for some reason, because without that it makes no sense for this to be Flynn's case.

Provenza grabbing the picture and racing back out of the room was awesome. I love how Brenda doesn't even blink an even though she has no idea either why Provenza just did that. I always loved how nice he treated Brenda's mother. That never changed in the series. Even when it ticked off Brenda's dad.

I didn't know that about Glendale. 

[Raja]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

I didn't know that about Glendale. 

I didn't catch the episode, wasn't this the one where PHD took over a case in the Sheriff's jurisdiction at the courthouse because of fear of a Deputy's involvement? But generally speaking when on the borders as in City Of Los Angeles neighborhoods Atwater Village and Glassel Park people often say "Glendale" or the bordering city name  because that often is the freeway off ramp signage. And then while they work for Los Angeles  all police officers and Sheriff's  deputies jurisdiction runs statewide. Normally the smaller police departments get specialized services, like homicide investigation, helicopter or SWAT support from the Sheriff's Department. However because LAPD keeps two helicopters in the air 24/7 they normally respond first until the local police or Sheriff's helicopter launches and takes over the air support role.

[raven]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

But, oh gods, Pope's laugh afterward, I remembered.  And Brenda tossing everyone's resignation and finally joining in on their post-case celebration. 

Pope's laugh was great!  I love the team coming together and Flynn transferring to Brenda's squad.

WRT to Fritz moving in with Brenda so soon - I think that was all Fritz.   Brenda didn't have to say yes of course, but I think she would have been fine with things going on the way they were for a while.  I'm OK with this because Fritz could have come off as too perfect, so him being a little pushy and a little worried about the Brenda/Pope relationship (when we find out Pope is getting a divorce) are realistic touches and help ground him.

I was always in favor of Brenda/Fritz so I was happy they never had Brenda/Pope rekindle anything.

Willie Rae gushing over how handsome Fritz is (which, Jon Tenney, of course) was cute but nothing is better than Provenza escorting Willie Rae and then telling Brenda not to worry, he only dates women in their 30s.   The show did a good job showing similarities with Brenda and her mom - not just "Thank yew" but the way they hold their bags, some postures.

I recall discussing on TWoP how they built up "Daddy" as this scary figure but that was all Brenda's perception, he was...not.

LOL...I forgot that Willie Rae figured out that Fritz was moving in. 

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

I didn't catch the episode, wasn't this the one where PHD took over a case in the Sheriff's jurisdiction at the courthouse because of fear of a Deputy's involvement? But generally speaking when on the borders as in City Of Los Angeles neighborhoods Atwater Village and Glassel Park people often say "Glendale" or the bordering city name  because that often is the freeway off ramp signage.

No, this was the Armenian mob case, where a nightclub in Glendale (not Atwater) was set on fire and two women cleaning inside were killed.

5 hours ago, raven said:

and then telling Brenda not to worry, he only dates women in their 30s. 

40 if he's drinking.