Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[Curio]

So, will the show ever address Regina's underlying feelings for Rumple? Or will the entire Golden Queen stuff be brushed under the rug once they Evil Queen plot is done? They can't introduce a huge plot like that and then expect us to forget about it. The show spent a good amount of time explaining how Jekyll and Hyde are the same person with shared feelings, and they even had Regina repeat the Evil Queen's like about liking Rumple's haircut, and since Regina and the Evil Queen are the same person, that means Regina needs to gain the Evil Queen's memories at some point and admit her lustful feelings towards Rumple. But I have a feeling that once this arc is done, it'll be as if Regina didn't swap spit with Rumple numerous times and there won't be any awkwardness between Regina and Belle and Rumple.

[Souris]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

So, will the show ever address Regina's underlying feelings for Rumple? Or will the entire Golden Queen stuff be brushed under the rug once they Evil Queen plot is done? They can't introduce a huge plot like that and then expect us to forget about it. 

Now, I KNOW you are not new to this rodeo, Curio! ;-)

Edited December 1, 2016 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

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Oh, I agree. Emma is also a bad mother. But it's different. Emma is still learning and she is a neglectful mother. Regina has been Henry's mother for more than ten years (how old is that kid?) and she is neglectful and abusive. Emma has never treated Henry the way Regina has, not even when she was the DO. 

Emma has all the memories of being Henry's mother for his entire life. She was much more responsible with him when neither them had their memories. He had school, friends, a stable place to live, and she was more careful about how her big decisions would affect him. I thought it was particularly silly in 3B when supposedly Emma was only thinking about herself and had a fear of settling with a family. It made her look impractical and Henry like chopped liver. (I blame the writers more for that since they needed her to stay in Storybrooke against all logic.) 

In the first two seasons, Emma and David tried to make sure Henry was safe and went to school. Now it seems like he only goes when he wants kisses from Violet. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Emma is a very lax parent. She is not good at disciplining Henry, which he sorely needs. She lets him walk over her all the time. I'm not sure Henry truly respects Emma. He values her more as a savior, and berates her whenever he thinks she's not acting up to his standards. Emma need to teach him to respect her authority.

Regina is worse, not just becasue of the gaslighting in childhood, but becasue she lets him be a parent to her. Henry nurtures her and affirms her a lot. He spent months trying to get her a romantic happy ending, which is really inappropriate (anyone remember the creepy break-up basket?). 

Regina and Emma together make a terrible parental unit. He has run away several times, and endangered himself and other people by doing things that people tell him specifically not to. Always praising him while never letting him face any consequences for his actions is giving Henry a swollen head the size of Storybrooke. 

[KAOS Agent]

Henry is the writers' self insert, so I try not to judge either Emma or Regina for not disciplining Henry. I desperately want them to let him learn his lesson when he's a bratty know it all, but the narrative always makes sure Henry is the Hero instead of allowing him to suffer the consequences for his actions. So when Henry runs away to New York and removes magic from the world thus stranding his grandparents, Hook & Zelena in another realm, he isn't allowed to experience just what that means to Emma, Robyn, Baby Snowflake, etc. Instead, he goes out and gives a cringeworthy speech about belief and gets all the credit for rescuing them and no consequences for being the one who put them there in the first place.

As for skipping school (at least in S6). Henry talks about seeing Violet at school, so I just assume that when he's around during the day that it's after school or a weekend. I don't think we're supposed to assume he's truant all the time. We've seen him at school and we've heard him talk about it, so that's all I need. There's no need to blame Emma or Regina for being lax in parenting in that regard.

Edited December 1, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Souris]

Somebody on Tumblr is transcribing all the dialogue that Snow & Emma have exchanged this season. It's about as sadly little as you think it would be.

[maryle]

Saddest thing of all show! How little they care for Emma and Snow or even Charming.

[KingOfHearts]

It's funny, Snow chastises Emma for not talking to her but she never makes the effort to approach her. She sends Archie instead.

Edited December 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Well, because A&E needed evidence that "It's just like Season 1" and "It's all about small town life!"  As if they care about Snow and Emma.

Even Regina and Zelena has had more lines and emotional moments.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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Even Regina and Zelena has had more lines and emotional moments.

You mean Regina or the Evil Queen? ;)

[KAOS Agent]

I think Regina/Snow have had more significant emotional dialogue with each other in just one S6 episode than Emma/Snow have had in several seasons. I'd say Regina/Zelena and the Evil Queen/Zelena also have had more than Emma/Snow. As much as they like to pretend, Season 1 this is not.

[KingOfHearts]

21 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

I think Regina/Snow have had more significant emotional dialogue with each other in just one S6 episode than Emma/Snow have had in several seasons. I'd say Regina/Zelena and the Evil Queen/Zelena also have had more than Emma/Snow. As much as they like to pretend, Season 1 this is not.

The EQ/Zelena spa scene was the equivalent of the Snow/Emma orphan scene in 3x02 or the Hook/Charming campfire scene in 3x22. It was two characters speaking their minds, while also revealing new developments to the audience. (AKA not just wheel spinning like Rumpbelle drama or Snow groveling at Regina's feet.)

Edited December 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

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Horowitz: I think in last week’s episode, we saw Gold walk right up to the line of the most reprehensible thing you can do to someone, and he didn’t do it.

Quote

I'm not a Rumbelle fan, but...it boggles my mind how Horowitz can think that the most reprehensible thing Gold could do to Belle was speed up her pregnancy, and not imprison her via magic hand cuffs or on the Jolly Roger.  Sure, accelerating a woman's pregnancy though magical means is probably not the nicest thing a person could do. 

He makes it sound like rape. Now, stealing the baby and twisting it with the Destiny Shears, that would be reprehensible. But that's not what he was talking about. On the list of things he's done to Belle, drugging her chamomile would not be the highest on the list. It would have been bad, but it would hardly be the straw that broke Rumpbelle's back. I wasn't shocked before they revealed the Evil Queen was behind the pregnancy speedup. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

So Dark Emma has done the most reprehensible thing you can do to someone, but thank goodness Gold hasn't crossed that line yet.  Kinda like how Snow really went full out dark in 2B by killing Cora, making her level of evil pretty much the same as Regina.

[Rumsy4]

I think it's implied that what Rumple was going to do with the baby--stealing it from Belle and altering its fate--was part of the "most reprehensible" thing. Or maybe I'm giving Adam too much credit.

[KingOfHearts]

36 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So Dark Emma has done the most reprehensible thing you can do to someone, but thank goodness Gold hasn't crossed that line yet.  Kinda like how Snow really went full out dark in 2B by killing Cora, making her level of evil pretty much the same as Regina.

Apparently there's a difference between "reprehensible" and "vile". Zelena did the most "vile" thing possible to Robin when she put his meatloaf in her oven.

It doesn't really make sense that Snow acted like she never did anything "dark" before, yet kidnapped a baby and kept it a secret for years. She mentioned later that her dark spot probably came from that instead, which makes her self-hatred stint in 2B pretty pointless.

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Or maybe I'm giving Adam too much credit.

... I'm inclined to lean toward the latter ...

Edited December 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

57 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think it's implied that what Rumple was going to do with the baby--stealing it from Belle and altering its fate--was part of the "most reprehensible" thing. Or maybe I'm giving Adam too much credit.

Well, you know the vile people who have actually done *that* reprehensible thing - Snowing.  Rumple is nothing compared to the evils of those two.

[Rumsy4]

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Well, you know the vile people who have actually done *that* reprehensible thing - Snowing.  

...

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Well, you know the vile people who have actually done *that* reprehensible thing - Snowing.  Rumple is nothing compared to the evils of those two.

The Charmings are the spawns of darkness. First Snowing, then Emma.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think it's implied that what Rumple was going to do with the baby--stealing it from Belle and altering its fate--was part of the "most reprehensible" thing. Or maybe I'm giving Adam too much credit.

I'd agree if Rumple had actually gotten a chance to do that, but then changed his mind and didn't.  But he never even got the chance because Belle sent the baby off with Blue before he could take it from her.  If she hadn't, I think he may very well have taken the child.  So that bit about how he walked right up to the line but didn't do it because of his overwhelming love for Belle is just BS.

The rest of the quote from Horowitz goes on to reference how Belle is going to find out that the EQ is the one who spiked her tea - which to me implies that he's saying speeding up the pregnancy itself was the most reprehensible thing he could have done to Belle. 

Either way, I don't understand how he can think there is still hope for that relationship after what Rumple has done and said to Belle this season alone.  He must see things completely different from the way most normal people do.  Nothing Rumple has done to Belle this season was romantic - and if that's how they are going to try to frame it (because of his 'huge and powerful love' for her) that is seriously disturbing. 

I'm not a Rumbelle fan.  Back in the early days of the show, I was a Belle fan - when she showed some spunk, and once again especially when she kicked Rumple out of town.  Since then, with the on again off again boring repetitiveness of their relationship, most of the time I just roll my eyes and ignore them.  But this - this actually makes me feel physically sick if I think about it too much. 

[Camera One]

I suppose once they've revealed that it wasn't Rumple who spiked the tea, maybe we were supposed to interpret that Rumple was just coming to the nun's place to make sure Belle and the baby were okay?  

Speaking of which, if you didn't want Rumple to know where the baby went, maybe close the window?

[Rumsy4]

I actually started liking Belle again this season. But it looks like she's gonna go back to Rumple. You know the saying--the dog goes back to etc.

47 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

But this - this actually makes me feel physically sick if I think about it too much. 

Same. These writers think they're so talented that they can bring a character back from the vilest shit imaginable. I'm trying to think when Rumple has ever been good to Belle--and I can think of just a few instances, as opposed to the countless times he has lied to her, manipulated her, frozen her, threatened her, imprisoned her, and plain terrorized her. Is this the "love" the writers want to promote as "True Love"?? I'm seriously disturbed. I almost feel like I may need to stop watching the Show if they put Rumbelle back together just so I don't support a show that romanticizes domestic violence. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

^^Ditto

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

I suppose once they've revealed that it wasn't Rumple who spiked the tea, maybe we were supposed to interpret that Rumple was just coming to the nun's place to make sure Belle and the baby were okay?  

Speaking of which, if you didn't want Rumple to know where the baby went, maybe close the window?

I am willing to bet that they will say that Rumple foresaw something about the baby and that's why he was acting crazy, wanted to accelerate the pregnancy to cut the baby's fate. So you know, Belle was wrong to not want anything to do with him because Rumple could have protected the baby, but now he's gone and he can't do that, so if he turns bad, it will be all Belle's fault.

Belle believed what her man child was telling her and EQ assumed with the shears when she handed them over and Rumple didn't correct them, so you know, Rumple innocent. 

Because that's how this show rolls. PLOT TWIST!

[Shanna Marie]

Rewatching the last episode, and you know how some shows put hotline numbers after episodes that touch on sensitive subjects like rape or suicide? With the Rumple and Belle scenes, I felt like this episode (and probably the last few) should come with the number for the domestic violence hotline. But that would require someone involved in the making of this show to have any awareness of what they're showing, and they don't seem to get it. I mean, yeah, he held her prisoner, then handcuffed her to keep her from getting away from him, and he wants to mess with his child's fate (with the implication that he was going to take the baby away), and he considered speeding up the pregnancy to get to the baby sooner, but since he didn't actually do that, then everything's okay!

Then again, Belle looks like more and more of an idiot. He enslaved her, she saw him torture a man (but he didn't kill him, so he must be good inside!), saw him take a baby away from its parents, knew he engineered a curse on a whole kingdom, knew he murdered his first wife for leaving him, watched him nearly beat to death a man whose hand he previously cut off, and knew he nearly beat her father to death, and she still believed he was good inside and married him. She really shouldn't be surprised that he's not proving to be an awesome husband. It's not like he's changed at all. They need to stop doing enslaved Belle flashbacks in which Rumple does something awful that she knows about because it makes her look more and more delusional about her insistence that he's good inside and has a good heart. After "Skin Deep," maybe. But they keep piling on, which makes it look worse.

[Camera One]

Don't forget within the last six months, he was willing to leave all her "friends" stranded in the Underworld for all eternity, prevented Darkness from The Dark One from being destroyed so it could be funneled into himself, threatened to beat up her father if he didn't TLK Belle, left Storybrooke at the mercy of Hyde after siphoning all its magic away, and treated her with condescension and contempt.

[Kktjones]

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Agreed. It would be stupid for CS to get engaged at this point. There's zero build-up to it. Unless it's something like--I might die tomorrow, so let's get married today--thing. Which would be even more stupid. 

(From the Speculation without Spoilers thread) I totally agree - an engagement would have made so much more sense at the end of Season 5. It would have been a perfect payoff to everything they went through and how they were feeling about each other. It would seem totally out of the blue at this point in Season 6. They haven't shared any significant scenes that would lead someone to propose. Heck, last night we learned that Emma never even told Hook she had wished she was never the savior. Not to mention he was just willing to sit around and wait for someone else to come up with a plan to save Emma.

I just don't understand what they are trying to do with the CaptainSwan relationship. It always feels like they are holding them at arms length. Like they want people to think they are this epic couple, yet they refuse to give them epic moments together. Fans had to endure not one, but THREE failed TLKs, but when it came time to confirm their true love status, but chose some strange test from the gods that had to be coupled with Hook saying "It's true love" for people to even understand what happened. Not to mention antis have completely discounted the whole thing as part of Hades' lie. The heart split didn't work and their true love wasn't enough to save him from the Underworld. Now they live together, but we don't get to see them interact in their home at all.

Now they have Emma go to this "wish" world and they don't have Hook play a role in either realm. I just don't get it. Are they afraid going "all in" on CaptainSwan will alienate the SQ fandom, so they keep it just open ended enough to string them along as well? As much as I love CS, the SQ fans have a point that Emma & Regina are given a lot of meaty scenes and the things they have said to each other and done for each other are very significant. The episodes written by Adam & Eddy seem to particularly focus on this relationship over all others - not just Emma & Hook, but also Emma & her parents. They seem to feel that the Emma/Regina relationship is the most important one on the show. 

Anyway, as much as I would love to see Emma & Hook get engaged and married, I think they will string that out until the very very end of the series (if they do it at all). It's clear something like a fairytale romance & wedding for Emma just isn't something they are interested in.

[Curio]

26 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

It's clear something like a fairytale romance & wedding for Emma just isn't something they are interested in.

 

This is very true. When you take a look back at all of the major episodes that focus on Emma and her romantic life—whether that was with Neal or Hook—A&E rarely write those episodes. But when you look at all the Emma/Regina episodes, A&E write lots of those. It's the pairing they're most interested in. But the issue is that A&E are more interested in writing Regina's fairy tale happy ending, not Emma's. If they were writing Emma's happy ending, the midseason finale 1) wouldn't have been one episode, it would have been an entire arc, and 2) would have looked a lot more like the Season 3 finale. Why is it that the split Evil Queen plot no one asked for has lasted half the season, but an AU that fans have been clamoring for for years got squished into a midseason finale? The Season 3 finale is genuinely the last time a major A&E-penned episode focused solely on what Emma wanted out of life, and it's no surprise that Hook was the one to accompany her during that adventure. But now it seems as if A&E are bored with Emma's story, they think she and Hook are boring because they're confirmed True Loves who don't need to go on adventures anymore, and they want to focus all of their time on finding Regina's happy ending. And unfortunately, since Robin is dead, and besides Henry, Emma is one of the characters that makes Regina the happiest. So if you're a fan of Regina and want to see her happy, the midseason finale episode was like crack for you. But if you're more of a fan of Emma's character and want to see her happy ending, the midseason finale was like a punch to the gut because Regina is way further down on Emma's list of people who make her happy. I'm imagining the moment where Princess Emma snapped out of it and froze Henry, and I can't help but feel like Storybrooke Emma must have had a "wait, where is Hook?" moment when she looked around the room only to see Regina standing next to her dead parents, because based on previous episodes, it really should have been Hook going to the AU to find Emma, not Regina. It probably didn't even occur to A&E to have Hook, Charming, or Snow travel to the AU with Regina because their Regina Blinders™ are that powerful. They don't consider the implication of what it means to have Hook casually working with Jasmine in Storybrooke waiting for David to come up with a plan while Regina is off interrupting Emma in a field of flowers, trying to convince her she's the savior, walking along a beach together, and holding hands as they prepare to jump into a green portal. (I've never considered A&E's Emma/Regina writing to be baiting before, but that scene clearly had to be a shoutout to The Legend of Korra. And if it wasn't, then that is some crazy coincidence shit.) Like, seriously, A&E can't play dumb anymore and claim that they don't write for ships. They do. I hate to admit it but the SQ fandom has every right now to believe their ship might be endgame. I mean, after that episode, why the hell not? Their pairing has gotten the focus of the Season 5 finale, already had a trip to an alternate world via magic mirrors, and two episodes later they get another alternate world adventure. When you look at the couples who have gotten the most focus this season, it's Emma/Regina, Belle/Rumple, Evil Queen/Rumple, and Snow/Charming. Emma/Hook have hardly interacted at all, so why should I be invested in a pairing that only exists in Offscreenville? The most interaction they got was a random Cinderella one-off episode where Emma asked Hook to move in, and then we never even got to see him move in! We don't even know what their living situation is like because they've barely shown us two seconds of their normal lives.

Hook came back from the dead for this? Part of me wishes the writers killed him off for good so I can finally quit this stupid show.

[Hookian]

SQ is not going to be endgame. SQ fandom are a bunch of idiots. I fully believe that if this is clearly 2 hour episode was supposed to air in it's entirety it would be a different story. 

Also CS interacted plenty this season. Was it not enough yes but they had some fantastic moments. 

The make out in the premiere, the entirety of episode 3, entirety of episode 6, Hook reading Emma the storybook, the entirety of episode 9, and I'm sure it'll bounce back in 11.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Hookian

[Rumsy4]

Emma and Regina holding hands and about to jump through a portal made me think of LoK too. At this point, I can't help think that Adam and Eddy have caved-in to one vocal fanbase. Ever since 5B, the focus has shifted almost entirely to Regina. In the UW, she got closure over Henry Sr, Cora, and Daniel. In 6A, it's been the Regina/EQ split. Between the 5B finale and now, there have been three isolated Regina/Emma episodes. There was a lot of focus on Emma/Regina in Season 4 as well, and we all know that according to Eddy, Emma took on the Darkness to give Regina a Happy Ending. 5A was an island of Captain Swan. So, yes--I agree that Swan Queen fans are not delusional in having hope. I still see their so-called friendship as one-sided, but this show romanticizes Rumbelle. So...

[Hookian]

7 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Emma and Regina holding hands and about to jump through a portal made me think of LoK too. At this point, I can't help think that Adam and Eddy have caved-in to one vocal fanbase. Ever since 5B, the focus has shifted almost entirely to Regina. In the UW, she got closure over Henry Sr, Cora, and Daniel. In 6A, it's been the Regina/EQ split. Between the 5B finale and now, there have been three isolated Regina/Emma episodes. There was a lot of focus on Emma/Regina in Season 4 as well, and we all know that according to Eddy, Emma took on the Darkness to give Regina a Happy Ending. 5A was an island of Captain Swan. So, yes--I agree that Swan Queen fans are not delusional in having hope. I still see their so-called friendship as one-sided, but this show romanticizes Rumbelle. So...

I honestly don't think that. I think because this was part one of the finale they clearly got what they wanted but come the second part when all is said and done CS will reign supreme once again.

[Curio]

1 minute ago, Hookian said:

SQ is not going to be endgame. SQ fandom are a bunch of idiots. I fully believe that if this is clearly 2 hour episode was supposed to air in it's entirety it would be a different story. 

 

I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not Emma and Hook are endgame—they clearly are and we'll probably finish the series with their wedding or something. But after the last episode, we can't be calling the SQ fandom a bunch of idiots when there was a lot of subtext that wasn't very subtle. It's not like they have to grasp at straws anymore, they can just post gifs and share videos. And what good is it to be an endgame couple if you don't even get the major premiere/finale focuses or barely get screen time? It's as if the writers were afraid they spent too much time focusing on Captain Swan in Season 5, so they're going the complete opposite direction and hardly giving them any screen time at all now. 

And listen, I'm all for the writers exploring new relationships and pairings, so I don't need to see Killian and Emma in every scene together if it means more Hook/David, David/Emma, Snow/Emma, Hook/Snow, Belle/Regina, Rumple/David, etc. But the writers aren't even giving us unique pairing alternatives, it's just more Emma/Regina and Belle/Rumple. Snow and Hook still have not shared a single significant scene alone together in 120+episodes. As icky as the pairing is, that's why I honestly don't even mind the Evil Queen and Rumple stuff because at least it's kind of fresh. Hook and Henry in the Nemo episode was a good example of a unique pairing, but beyond that, there really hasn't been much change in the status quo. And if there isn't going to be any change in the status quo, can I at least have my fun and adventurous Captain Swan back, please?

[Hookian]

Quote

I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not Emma and Hook are endgame—they clearly are and we'll probably finish the series with their wedding or something. But after the last episode, we can't be calling the SQ fandom a bunch of idiots when there was a lot of subtext that wasn't very subtle. It's not like they have to grasp at straws anymore, they can just post gifs and share videos. And what good is it to be an endgame couple if you don't even get the major premiere/finale focuses or barely get screen time? It's as if the writers were afraid they spent too much time focusing on Captain Swan in Season 5, so they're going the complete opposite direction and hardly giving them any screen time at all now. 

Sure they can until they get a nice slap of reality in the S6B premiere and yeah they're a bunch of idiots.

Also are we gonna ignore the fact that Regina literally ignored Emma and became a zombie when she saw Robin? Oh but she's supposed to be bisexual to these people. Yet EQ hits on anything with a dick. 

Yep totally bisexual, they're idiots plain and simple.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Hookian

[Rumsy4]

Calling an entire fanbase idiots is not exactly smart, especially when the writing puts a lot of focus on Emma/Regina. 

I agree @Curio. CS is definitely still endgame (as far as one can be certain in a TV Show), but the writers seem to have wimped-out of writing anything substantial for CS this season beyond bits and pieces here and there. Rumbelle has had the most focus of the established canon couples, but it's soured by the fact that they're setting them up to get back together (I just can't). 

[Souris]

2 hours ago, Kktjones said:

Are they afraid going "all in" on CaptainSwan will alienate the SQ fandom, so they keep it just open ended enough to string them along as well?

Yes. 

[RadioGirl27]

2 hours ago, Curio said:

I hate to admit it but the SQ fandom has every right now to believe their ship might be endgame.

At this point, I'm starting to think SQ is endgame.

1 hour ago, Hookian said:

Sure they can until they get a nice slap of reality in the S6B premiere

That was also written by A&E, so forget about it.

1 hour ago, Hookian said:

Also CS interacted plenty this season. Was it not enough yes but they had some fantastic moments. 

No, they haven't. A scene here and there where they almost never talk is not interacting.

[Souris]

13 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

At this point, I'm starting to think SQ is endgame.

I think CS will still be nominally endgame, but they will no longer get any significant scenes and all the screentime will go to Emma/Regina. So CS will be endgame in name only. A&E couldn't have possibly made it clearer this season that they no longer have any interest in developing and showing CS. If they cared, we'd have seen them moving in together or talking about Emma's death vision when Hook learned about it. But nothing. All development will now go toward SQ. Empty promises about CS adventures are nothing but lip service and baiting, just like the empty promises of CS domestic scenes.

[Shanna Marie]

When David was griping at Hook about living with Emma and not knowing what her plans and wishes were, did anyone else halfway expect Hook to point out that the only scene of them at home together since he moved in was about what Henry would have for breakfast?

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, Shanna Marie said:

When David was griping at Hook about living with Emma and not knowing what her plans and wishes were, did anyone else halfway expect Hook to point out that the only scene of them at home together since he moved in was about what Henry would have for breakfast?

David forgot he was keeping a secret from his wife. Pretty sure she's completely clueless that he lied to her.

[asabovesobelow]

6 hours ago, Hookian said:

SQ is not going to be endgame. SQ fandom are a bunch of idiots. I fully believe that if this is clearly 2 hour episode was supposed to air in it's entirety it would be a different story. 

Wow, that's rude. I don't know too many SQ fans that think they will be endgame. It's very clear that CS is endgame. Enjoying a pairing (canon or not) on a TV show does not equate to an entire group of idiots. I enjoyed them very much in the finale. Did it change where I think the show is heading? Of course not.

[Camera One]

8 hours ago, Curio said:

It probably didn't even occur to A&E to have Hook, Charming, or Snow travel to the AU with Regina because their Regina Blinders™ are that powerful.

At least they did have Emma/Hook share an adventure in the 3B finale, the 4A premiere, and for several of the 5A flashbacks.  Nevertheless, the Regina bias is strong since we already had Emma/Regina together in the 5B finale, in "I'll Be Your Mirror" two frick'in episodes ago, and now this.  

As for Charming or Snow or both travelling to the AU with Emma - now that definitely didn't occur to A&E, and it should not be this way. It is incomprehensible how the parent/daughter relationship is completely off the Writers' radar, to the point where there hasn't been a centric about this since Season 3.  The Emma/parents relationship was supposed to be at the core of this show and a major part of Emma's character conflict, and Ginnifer Goodwin is supposedly one of the lead characters of this show.   

At the end of the day, the reason why Regina/Emma shared another adventure was because they needed to keep Emma away from "death" and they wanted a way to bring Robin Hood back.  The real purpose of this AU was not to explore Emma.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

The parent/daughter relationship is there, it's just the wrong daughter. Snow has spent more time mothering Regina than mothering her own daughter. Snow pays lip service, talks about how she'll never stop fighting for Emma, but I have yet to see it.

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

The real purpose of this AU was not to explore Emma.

No, it wasn't. That became clear very quickly. I knew a no curse AU might suck, but that reached new levels. Emma was the excuse they used to have Regina go to the AU and bring Robin back with her.

[Mathius]

53 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Snow pays lip service, talks about how she'll never stop fighting for Emma, but I have yet to see it.

She improved in this regard for 5B...for a while.  And then it was back to neglecting Emma and her problems in favor of coddling Regina.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

No, it wasn't. That became clear very quickly. I knew a no curse AU might suck, but that reached new levels. Emma was the excuse they used to have Regina go to the AU and bring Robin back with her.

I thought it was going to suck for different reasons... like, "Look how horrible the world would have been without Regina casting the curse!" If Regina hadn't interfered, Princes Emma probably would have never had to face a real problem and could have just lived the rest of her days in ignorant bliss. It could have been worse to some degree, but it sucked in an entirely new ways I didn't expect.

Part of me actually wants Outlaw Queen to be endgame. It would be weird if Regina were the only main character not to have a love interest, and let's be honest - the writers have no intention of ever introducing her to anyone else. Robin is her designated soulmate and they will never try to top him. Regina totally doesn't deserve a lover and it has always been a poor excuse for a relationship, but after all the pushing to get us to see them together, it feels more coherent if they actually do end up together. I don't really want to hear the cries of, "But Regina never got her happy ending!" after the series finale. 

[Hookian]

10 hours ago, Souris said:

I think CS will still be nominally endgame, but they will no longer get any significant scenes and all the screentime will go to Emma/Regina. So CS will be endgame in name only. A&E couldn't have possibly made it clearer this season that they no longer have any interest in developing and showing CS. If they cared, we'd have seen them moving in together or talking about Emma's death vision when Hook learned about it. But nothing. All development will now go toward SQ. Empty promises about CS adventures are nothing but lip service and baiting, just like the empty promises of CS domestic scenes.

I disagree. I fully believe before the show ends that CS will be married. I know this half was hard but call me silly but I don't think the writers are fibbing about how CS is gonna be big in 6B and they're gonna have an epic passionate romantic action packed adventures.

And I honestly think Adam and Eddy thought one scene of CS domestic was enough for us to be pleased but they're freaking morons. Clearly though through dialogue we here about their domestic life. Would we like to see it absolutely. Hopefully that changes, all Granny scenes with CS should take place in their house.

And aside from this episode and episode eight SQ barely interacted this season. 

I honestly feel that if the writers chose to air the 2 hrs continously one after the other, the atmosphere in this fandom would be much different. SQ fans would be furious(what else is new) and CS fans would be very content.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Hookian

[InsertWordHere]

6 hours ago, asabovesobelow said:

Wow, that's rude. I don't know too many SQ fans that think they will be endgame. It's very clear that CS is endgame. Enjoying a pairing (canon or not) on a TV show does not equate to an entire group of idiots. I enjoyed them very much in the finale. Did it change where I think the show is heading? Of course not.

I am not an SQ shipper by any means, but ITA. IMO, they've successfully campaigned to keep their pairing front and center. That's the opposite of idiotic. It's smart. I can't say for certain that the show would be different without the various factions of fandom tweeting at AH all day, but I think it's likely that fans on all sides (except maybe my poor Snowing) have influenced some things, and I think the Emma/Regina friendship is one of them.

I've always thought the concept of a ship being canon or not was a bit ridiculous. A character can kiss another a thousand times and it doesn't necessarily mean those two characters have a stronger love than character A does with the best friend they aren't kissing. What matters to me is if it's made clear onscreen that the two characters love each other, make each other happy, and would go to the ends of the earth for each other. That both have found their person in the other. It's clear to me that CS meets all of that criteria, but SQ, as it's been portrayed in the last few seasons, meets some of those things too. I don't think they make each other particularly happy or that they're each other's person and I also don't think that sharing a person [Henry] is the same as having a person (which I guess would be a TL in this show's parlance) for yourself, but they have certainly been portrayed as willing to go great lengths for each other, and I can certainly see why people think there's love there. YMMV on both ships, obviously.  

As for endgame, as much as I don't want it to happen, I've always thought it was possible we'd get some sort of "have your cake and eat it too" endgame with CS together but with hints that SQ could be together in the future or even an ambiguous open-ended non-ending. I just hope it's not a HIMYM-type bait and switch. I really couldn't bear that. Not because of ships but because that ending made the whole series a waste of my damn time. I would feel the same with the "it was all a coma dream/mental hospital" ending. I'd be more worried if they hadn't killed temporarily killed Hook off in last season, honestly. If they hadn't I could totally see them killing him off in the finale and ending it with Regina, Henry, and Emma together as a family. I also think if they were ever going to go the suppressed desire route with SQ it would have been done with long-haired and elaborately-dressed Regina showing a hint of hidden feelings for Emma instead of having her spend 75% of her time trying to get Rumple.  

Edited December 6, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Souris]

ITA. SQers aren't idiots. They're well-coordinated and they've played Adam like a fiddle. They have forced their fanon ship into getting attention and loads of episodes written entirely to cater toward them. They get more attention than actual canon ships.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Souris

[Camera One]

It's also because SQ, not the romantic aspect, but the friendship, aligns with A&E's interests.  They think it's such a big bold step to write Regina being friends with Emma or Snow.  Eddy has said how great it is that Regina and Snow are friends, and they feel the same about Regina and Emma.  There's actual pride.  

[Hookian]

22 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It's also because SQ, not the romantic aspect, but the friendship, aligns with A&E's interests.  They think it's such a big bold step to write Regina being friends with Emma or Snow.  Eddy has said how great it is that Regina and Snow are friends, and they feel the same about Regina and Emma.  There's actual pride.  

Adam and Eddy talk very positively and passionate about the CS relationship as well.

And I don't think CS endgame is gonna be ambigous, I think it'll be crystal clear.

SQ haven't even hugged yet, please. They're friends but that's it. 

[Rumsy4]

They held hands last episode. ;-)