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amensisterfriend

By amensisterfriend
in Downton Abbey [V]

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Hiyo

Hiyo

Britain is still a country where class is a thing. The right schooling and accent are still seen as being important in many segments of society. A good chunk of male MPs in the UK graduated from Eton, and it does have something of an elitist reputation. Also some people in the UK will try to adopt a more "posh" accent if they can...

And while not everyone is pro-monarchy, there are many who do genuinely love and support the Royal Family. Some are in the middle, they may not care for the monarchy but they do appreciate the money the family brings in via tourism and what not. And some just don't care or have any opinion about the monarchy.

Aristocrats still exist, to varying degrees, some are just around in title only, while others have adapted really well to post WWII life and are even multi-millionaires (some worth hundreds of millions of pounds).

If you want a more accurate depiction of the aristocracy and relationship between the Upstairs/Downstairs crowd, I'd recommend watching Gosford Park. Ironically enough, also written by Julian Fellowes (who is a Tory peer; draw your own conclusions from that).

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JudyObscure
JudyObscure

I'm not sure if I agree with Simon on that.  I can think of lots of English literature where underdogs won. Fanny in "Mansfield Park," Jane Eyre, "Chariots of Fire," etc.  Even in Simon's narrow world

saki
saki

I think Mabel Lane Fox is a missed opportunity.  It made me realise how great it would be if Mary had a proper nemesis - someone who was her equal and who actually won some of the time.  Instead, we h

photo fox
photo fox

Another UO (this is seriously cathartic!) is that I am just fine with the amount of parenting we see on the show. The kids are cute, but I don't watch Downton for kid stories.

buttersister

buttersister

Hard to imagine Charles inheriting the love people have for his mother. 

Yes, Fellowes did love his (loathsome) Lady Mary. And perhaps she was the most authentic character aboard, as even though she married the racing driver/car dealer in the end, much was made of them being equals where it counted. BS a bit, in those times, but more in keeping with the unwed mother sister marrying well and the new head butler. Now the Dowager is the one, isn't she. Fellowes used her to make someone with that title and beliefs sympathetic, from allowing a pleb gardener to win her award to befriending Mrs. Crawley to believing that love is all you need (with a throwaway line to "playing our part"). Good thing he had Maggie Smith.

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Hiyo

Hiyo

(edited)

I liked Mary.

Truth be told, Mary marrying Henry would probably have been more accepted than Sybil marrying Tom, what with him being the chauffeur (!), Irish (!!), and Catholic (!!!). Hell, at least Henry had a titled aunt.

As for Violet befriending Mrs. Crawley, well, she was the grandmother of the future Earl, and given that Isobel was younger than Violet, she would have had more of an influence on George's life. Granted, once Isobel became a Baroness, their social standing did become much more equal.

Edited by Hiyo
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sark1624

sark1624

10 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I liked Mary.

Truth be told, Mary marrying Henry would probably have been more accepted than Sybil marrying Tom, what with him being the chauffeur (!), Irish (!!), and Catholic (!!!). Hell, at least Henry had a titled aunt.

As for Violet befriending Mrs. Crawley, well, she was the grandmother of the future Earl, and given that Isobel was younger than Violet, she would have had more of an influence on George's life. Granted, once Isobel became a Baroness, their social standing did become much more equal.

 Yes, for the rest of the society back then Mary marrying Henry Talbot wouldnt have a big deal, Henry Talbot was not tittled or rich, but he was remotely connected to the landed gentry, he was a "gentleman", something similar to Bertie Pelham when he was the estate agent, personalities aside, both were connected to the landed gentry and their names would be in debretts peerage book. But in the Downton universe, everybody knew that Sybil was that kind of woman, even Rosamound said that Sybil would be happy living in a simply cottage but not Lady Mary Crawley (in the plot in wich she starts havind doubts about Matthew when Cora is pregnant again). So, in perspective and considering Lady Mary personality and character she married very down more than Sybil.

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Hiyo

Hiyo

How was she marrying down? Henry had a much better status than Tom. It doesn't matter that "in the Downton universe, everybody knew that Sybil was that kind of woman", her marrying Tom was pretty low for the daughter of a respected Earl to do.

In perspective, Mary was marrying a decent guy while still living in Downton and raising the heir there, so one could say she got to have her cake and eat it as well, even if she never became the Countess of Grantham.

Llywela

Llywela

On 6/13/2020 at 12:40 PM, alexvillage said:

Thanks for the detailed response. I should have been more specific, I 100% see the "new aristocracy" around the world, in the form of billionaires ( and the newly minted trillionaire, Bezos) and even in smaller scales as in white people employing and exploiting mostly black people as "maids". I am firmly in the "eat the rich" group. I am still curious about how the British see that in relation to their support (or lack of support) for the queen. Do they compartmentalize the current monarchy and their perks, while the rest of the current aristocracy (even if in title only, I really have no idea of how they live their lives) deserves to just cease to be a thing?

Interesting perspective on the writer. I didn't know but it makes sense now why he whitewashed Tom's socialism. I had noticed some of the extrapolations in the show, like children out of wedlock being largely accepted into their circles, and a gay servant since homosexuality was outlawed in Britain until relatively recent, I believe. The way the "upstairs" and "downstairs" were so friendly also raised my eyebrows - the analogy in the US reviewed history is how many slaves were happy to be slaves and how so many white slaveowners were compassionate and gentle. Bah!

But thanks for the information. I knew a little about the downsizing happening at that period, the new middle class emerging. I am still curious though, about the population's current feelings about the monarchic ways.

Speaking only for myself, I watched for pretty dresses, gorgeous houses and character stories, although I was permanently frustrated by the latter. For me, costume dramas offer insight into the way things were done in the past and how those bygone eras shaped the society I live in today. Many of my forebears were in service, so I tend to relate more to the downstairs stories, and not many costume dramas offer those, so for all its flaws Downton did at least try to give two sides of the story, even if hopelessly biased. 

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BlancheDevoreaux

BlancheDevoreaux

I don't know if this is a UO or not, but I am  finishing up rewatching the series and I am even more annoyed this watch-thru when it comes to Edith and Marigold. Children need stability. Edith first places the child with a Swiss family for adoption. Then, she removes Marigold from that home and places her with the Downton caretakers do she is closer to Edith. Once again, Marigold is loved, well cared for, and has a stable family. Edith is really creepy during this period, too, to anyone not fully aware of the true situation. Anyway, then Edith removes Marigold from that situation to have her come live in the big house. The entire time, Edith is only thinking of herself and certainly not what is good for Marigold. Had she been putting Marigold first, she would have left her in her stable home where she was loved and familiar.

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Ely

Ely

I was especially team Mrs Drewe. It was such a contived writing to make her go all psycho in the end. And her husband is just as bad as Lady Edith. They tell Mrs Drewe nothing about the real background, make her adopt Marigold as one of her own, see how she loves her like a daughter and than just give her back to Edith "opsie, you cannot have her anymore". And anytime she voices doubt or concern her husband sushes her down. JF really completely disregarded Mrs Drewe as a character.

I am currently on a re-watch and I had forgotten about how much Anna cries. Dear Lord. And both she and her husband being in an out of prison. It was really too much. I miss seeing Bates with Lord Grantham, that was such an interesting dynamic that got sacrificed for the Anna crying fest. And I did enjoy their romance in season 1. 

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trmurphy4

trmurphy4

If I were to choose a bride, my order would be: Edith, Anna, Sybil, Daisy, Mary.  

Yes, Edith is easily first. I find her more attractive, less stuffy with most, and just as willing to have fun.  Same with Anna. 
Mary is way too stuffy, comes off with high maintenance and expectations, and IMHO average in appearance.

Every man has their concept of beauty.

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