Monk - General Discussion

[Salzmank]

On 1/12/2021 at 11:48 AM, shapeshifter said:

I think there's a couple of cases in which Natalie is the first to notice key evidence. I recall noticing that recently but not which episode (currently I'm living in over-the-air TV Monk land, heh).

But I was kind of looking to see if Randy ever did anything to warrant his end-of-series promotion in NJ, and noticed in "Mr. Monk and His Biggest Fan" that Randy took down the murder-rampaging perp with a Janga move in the lumber warehouse. 

That episode also has a good example of something happening that makes no sense (which I maintain is contained in every Monk episode) in that the Mother of the little boy who spends the day with Randy pays $300 for that purpose. 

On 1/12/2021 at 12:35 PM, Mikita said:

One that I can think of is Mr. Monk and the Rapper. Natalie immediately told Monk that she didn't think that it was Murderess. She stated her reasons why. Adrian was dismissive and asked why she thought that. Natalie said she had a hunch. He dismissed that and she replied he get's hunches sometimes.  

Then when they leave the recording session, Denny came out of the building to tell Monk about the "guy" that was hanging around the garage the night before the limo exploded. As soon as he left, Natalie said he's the guy. Monk replied another hunch? Natalie was right! I think there are more episodes but this one always stood out to me because she immediately knew who didn't do it and who did do it once she met Denny.

On 1/12/2021 at 1:56 PM, LexieLily said:

In the episode where the high school stalker/bully of Natalie killed his father and stepmother (the neighbors of Natalie's parents) Natalie was the first to determine that there was no cell phone service up in the spot where the car crash happened meaning the father couldn't have called for help like Paul/the police report said. Natalie found the evidence that proved the father returned to the house that night and didn't die in the car crash.

Thanks, all! As you can probably tell I’ve only watched Monk in reruns and have definitely missed a few episodes (though I think I’ve seen “…and the Rapper”). That said, I always wanted a supporting character—Sharona/Natalie, Stottlemeyer or, yes, Disher—to solve a case entirely on his/her own. For whatever reason I always feel like I want that in a mystery show… Maybe because I like showing that someone other than the genius sleuth has brains? 😉

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, Salzmank said:

That said, I always wanted a supporting character—Sharona/Natalie, Stottlemeyer or, yes, Disher—to solve a case entirely on his/her own. For whatever reason I always feel like I want that in a mystery show… Maybe because I like showing that someone other than the genius sleuth has brains? 😉

Same! It would have been interesting and a nice change of pace to do an episode like that.

[AorTux]

Absolutely loved this show!  Finished from start to end.  Great cast members, writing, etc.  Tony Shalhoub and everyone else involved were truly a sight to watch.  Truth be told, after the third season I was not sure if the show would still be as strong without Sharona, but in my opinion I was wrong.  I ended up loving Natalie the same.  I actually got to like everyone that I started watching a lot of them in their past works.  I had already watched Shalhoub on Wings and Levine from Silence of the Lambs.  I really liked Bitty in a league of their own and Traylor in Two Guys and A girl which I am currently watching.   Jason had a small role previously in an amazing movie called a Beautiful Mind.  I just like everything about this show.  

Edited January 17, 2021 by AorTux

[AorTux]

On 1/12/2021 at 12:56 PM, LexieLily said:

In the episode where the high school stalker/bully of Natalie killed his father and stepmother (the neighbors of Natalie's parents) Natalie was the first to determine that there was no cell phone service up in the spot where the car crash happened meaning the father couldn't have called for help like Paul/the police report said. Natalie found the evidence that proved the father returned to the house that night and didn't die in the car crash.

In the drunk episode, although she didn't verbally say it, she figured out from drinking the Aqua Velva that the body was likely in an Aqua Velva container.  

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Levine from Silence of the Lambs.

Talk about range. I still have to shake myself every time I realize that he was Buffalo Bill.

[AorTux]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Talk about range. I still have to shake myself every time I realize that he was Buffalo Bill.

Put the lotion in the basket!

[peacheslatour]

Just now, AorTux said:

Put the lotion in the basket!

Poor Precious.

[LexieLily]

15 hours ago, AorTux said:

Absolutely loved this show!  Finished from start to end.  Great cast members, writing, etc.  Tony Shalhoub and everyone else involved were truly a sight to watch.  Truth be told, after the third season I was not sure if the show would still be as strong without Sharona, but in my opinion I was wrong.  I ended up loving Natalie the same.  I actually got to like everyone that I started watching a lot of them in their past works.  I had already watched Shalhoub on Wings and Levine from Silence of the Lambs.  I really liked Bitty in a league of their own and Traylor in Two Guys and A girl which I am currently watching.   Jason had a small role previously in an amazing movie called a Beautiful Mind.  I just like everything about this show.  

Randy was in A Beautiful Mind? The movie about John Nash? Cool!!

[AorTux]

53 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Randy was in A Beautiful Mind? The movie about John Nash? Cool!!

It was a very small role, but he was one of the other princeton students at the bar while John Nash was talking about game theory I believe.  I think he appears in a few other scenes too.  

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by AorTux

[andromeda331]

45 minutes ago, AorTux said:

It was a very small role, but he was one of the other princeton students at the bar while John Nash was talking about game theory I believe.  I think he appears in a few other scenes too.  

 

Thanks for posting it.

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, AorTux said:

It was a very small role, but he was one of the other princeton students at the bar while John Nash was talking about game theory I believe.  I think he appears in a few other scenes too.  

 

Thanks for posting the scene for me.

As far as Stottlemeyer/Silence of the Lambs, I hadn't heard of Ted Levine or seen the movie before I watched Monk, so when Silence of the Lambs was on television one day I told myself I would watch part of it until I saw Stottlemeyer. I caught it somewhere in the middle and once I saw Capt. Stottlemeyer kidnap a girl into his creepy van, knock her upside the head, and proceed to cut off her dress - I was out. Lol.

[AorTux]

Speaking of Monk, Traylor Howard and Emmy Clarke (Julie) apparently a few months gave an interview to some podcaster about their experience on Monk.  The interview had some pretty interesting insights.  It is not the full 1 hour and 23 minutes, but the interview is like the first 35 minutes of this.  I really liked it.  

  

Edited January 18, 2021 by AorTux

[LexieLily]

Ted Levine was cast as a series regular in an ABC drama called Big Sky. (Yay Stottlemeyer!) Never seen it before, don't know what it is, but I think it's on it's second season. He is cast as Horst Kleinsasser, a “once-powerful man [who] has suffered a stroke and can only whisper, and knows he has to pass the ranch throne on to one of his children.” The show airs on Tuesdays at 10/9c but according to the press release Levine's character won't appear until later in the season.  

Besides Shalhoub, is this show/Levine the first Core Four cast member to get regular or steady work post-Monk?

[peacheslatour]

20 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Ted Levine was cast as a series regular in an ABC drama called Big Sky. (Yay Stottlemeyer!) Never seen it before, don't know what it is, but I think it's on it's second season. He is cast as Horst Kleinsasser, a “once-powerful man [who] has suffered a stroke and can only whisper, and knows he has to pass the ranch throne on to one of his children.” The show airs on Tuesdays at 10/9c but according to the press release Levine's character won't appear until later in the season.  

Besides Shalhoub, is this show/Levine the first Core Four cast member to get regular or steady work post-Monk?

Disher did, I think. Don't know about Sharona and Natalie.

[Bastet]

18 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Besides Shalhoub, is this show/Levine the first Core Four cast member to get regular or steady work post-Monk?

Looking at Levine's IMDb page, he - unlike the others - has been very active in the years between then and now, including several series.

 

[peacheslatour]

Just now, Bastet said:

Looking at Levine's IMDb page, he - unlike the others - has been very active in the years between then and now, including several series.

 

He is a very good actor.

[LexieLily]

21 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Disher did, I think. Don't know about Sharona and Natalie.

Disher did a few episodic roles, I think. Sharona and Natalie basically disappeared after Monk 😞 

[Koalagirl]

I just started watching and a really enjoying this series. I have no idea why I never watched before but better late than never!

[andromeda331]

16 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

I just started watching and a really enjoying this series. I have no idea why I never watched before but better late than never!

I'm glad your enjoying the show. Its one of my favorites.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Koalagirl said:

I just started watching and a really enjoying this series. I have no idea why I never watched before but better late than never!

Same here :)! I have @Salzmank to thank for that-we got to talking about the show a bit in the Frasier forum a while back and last month, one of the channels started reruns of this show from the beginning, so I was like, "Hey, perfect timing!" 😄. I certainly remember hearing about this show back in the day and how good it was, so I'm also wondering what took me so long :p. 

But I'm definitely enjoying the show, too :). I'm on the last season now and I'm very curious to see how they'll wrap everything up!

[LexieLily]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

But I'm definitely enjoying the show, too :). I'm on the last season now and I'm very curious to see how they'll wrap everything up!

I have a few issues with the wrap-up of the finale but on the whole it was a great way to end the series. You'll have to come back and tell us all what you think when you watch! And you, too, @Koalagirl!

[Annber03]

12 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I have a few issues with the wrap-up of the finale but on the whole it was a great way to end the series. You'll have to come back and tell us all what you think when you watch! And you, too, @Koalagirl!

Oh, I definitely will :D. I'm looking forward to being able to properly talk about this series in general with everyone here once I get through it all. 

[LexieLily]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, I definitely will :D. I'm looking forward to being able to properly talk about this series in general with everyone here once I get through it all. 

Great! The last few episodes try to give character closure for all of the Core Four, not just Monk.

[Annber03]

8 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Great! The last few episodes try to give character closure for all of the Core Four, not just Monk.

Good to know :)! I like it when shows see to it everyone gets a proper sendoff. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, LexieLily said:

The last few episodes try to give character closure for all of the Core Four, not just Monk.

By hooking pretty much everyone (other than Monk) up with a romantic partner, as I recall.  Bleh.

I don't remember details beyond saddling Sharona with Randy's dumb ass and making some sort of mess of the Trudy storyline via a kid.  I'd lost interest as the series drew to a close, but made sure to watch the final few episodes, and was mighty disappointed.  

But, while I usually scroll on past if I come across the show while channel surfing, if I come across one of the episodes I love, I must stop and watch, because the good ones are that good.  Like the first Ambrose episode, with the pies -- that is a fantastic piece of writing and acting.  I've seen it several times, and tear up every viewing.

[peacheslatour]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

By hooking pretty much everyone (other than Monk) up with a romantic partner, as I recall.  Bleh.

I don't remember details beyond saddling Sharona with Randy's dumb ass and making some sort of mess of the Trudy storyline via a kid.  I'd lost interest as the series drew to a close, but made sure to watch the final few episodes, and was mighty disappointed.  

But, while I usually scroll on past if I come across the show while channel surfing, if I come across one of the episodes I love, I must stop and watch, because the good ones are that good.  Like the first Ambrose episode, with the pies -- that is a fantastic piece of writing and acting.  I've seen it several times, and tear up every viewing.

Ooh, the one with the little kid! When he's on the phone with the 911 operator? *thud*

[LexieLily]

With @Bastet saying she was disappointed in the last few episodes I was wondering what everyone thought of Mr. Monk and the Badge, the last true episode before the finale. Part of me thinks Monk didn't really want to be reinstated, he just wanted to prove to himself and to Trudy's memory that he was well enough psychologically to be reinstated. I thought it was quite nice that the end result was Monk realizing that he liked the freedom of his consultant job more than he wanted to be a police officer and Leland didn't seem all that surprised at the end when Monk turned in his badge (or maybe he just signed some papers, his badge might still have been in that guy's leg!). The episode even made a point of having Stottlemeyer tell Monk that after the few days of desk duty were up that Monk had to be on a different patrol and that Leland couldn't be there to hold Monk's hand and protect him. The officers Monk were assigned to wouldn't listen to him and tolerate his theories/phobias the way Stottlemeyer/Randy did. I know, the whole "boys in blue protect their own," but the other officers were determined not to work with Monk before he ever opened his mouth. So, while it was growth for Monk in that he didn't need his badge and that he enjoyed more the freedom of being a consultant and working with Stottlemeyer/Randy, and having Natalie work for him...at the same time it was an easy way for Monk to stay protected within his narrow friend group. He's more confident and more able to work knowing Leland is always there to clean up after him, so to speak.

Edited March 3, 2021 by LexieLily

[kathyk24]

10 hours ago, LexieLily said:

With @Bastet saying she was disappointed in the last few episodes I was wondering what everyone thought of Mr. Monk and the Badge, the last true episode before the finale. Part of me thinks Monk didn't really want to be reinstated, he just wanted to prove to himself and to Trudy's memory that he was well enough psychologically to be reinstated. I thought it was quite nice that the end result was Monk realizing that he liked the freedom of his consultant job more than he wanted to be a police officer and Leland didn't seem all that surprised at the end when Monk turned in his badge (or maybe he just signed some papers, his badge might still have been in that guy's leg!). The episode even made a point of having Stottlemeyer tell Monk that after the few days of desk duty were up that Monk had to be on a different patrol and that Leland couldn't be there to hold Monk's hand and protect him. The officers Monk were assigned to wouldn't listen to him and tolerate his theories/phobias the way Stottlemeyer/Randy did. I know, the whole "boys in blue protect their own," but the other officers were determined not to work with Monk before he ever opened his mouth. So, while it was growth for Monk in that he didn't need his badge and that he enjoyed more the freedom of being a consultant and working with Stottlemeyer/Randy, and having Natalie work for him...at the same time it was an easy way for Monk to stay protected within his narrow friend group. He's more confident and more able to work knowing Leland is always there to clean up after him, so to speak.

Leland never got quite got enough credit for it for my taste for what he did for Monk for the majority of the series: as police captain, it was Stottlemeyer's ass and reputation on the line every time he defended Monk and his theories to his sometimes-reluctant higher-ups and/or the FBI.

I hated that episode I thought the writers set up Monk to fail. Monk always wanted to be a detective again ever since the start of the series he never changed his mind. I think Monk and Stottlemyer  helped each other. Monk helped him solve cases that nobody else could have. I think Monk would have been prefect as a cold case detective. It would be a slower pace and Monk could use his ability for noticing the details other people missed.

[Annber03]

And I have officially worked my way through the entire series :)! Woo! What an entertaining ride-it's been a fun couple months discovering this show. I can see where some of you here had a few quibbles/issues with the series finale, because yeah, there's elements that struck me kind of odd and off, too. But I loved the montage and the callback to the pilot, everything with Monk and Molly was adorable and sweet, and I liked seeing everyone's lives turning out as they did, and the idea of things just continuing on as usual :). I think ending on that note was just right and very fitting. 

Other general thoughts, as follows:

-That Randy Newman theme song gets stuck in your head something fierce, my goodness.  I swear, when I first started getting into this show, there was a solid week, I'd say it was, where I couldn't get it out of my head 😛. I like it, though. It fits the quirky nature of the show, and given all the craziness in the real world of late, the lyrics are certainly relatable. 

-Having heard about the whole debate between Sharona and Natalie, I'm just gonna say right now that I will sit in the camp of those who liked both of them 🙂. I think they each bring something special to their relationships with Monk, and I think they're both interesting, fun, cool characters in their own right. It's also neat to see a male/female bond on a show that's platonic while still being very deep (and I say that as someone who's a total shipper sort in general, and who tends to ship characters that are friends, no less), and that that was the case with both women, no less. 

Stottlemeyer and Disher are great, too. I especially love the way Stottlemeyer looks out for both Monk and Disher, and how his bond with each of them is equally close, yet still different and special. You've got the "old friends" dynamic with Monk, and the more father/son sort of thing with Disher. 

I also adored Kroger and all the therapy scenes in general. He was so good and so patient. Bell filled in nicely afterward, too. I appreciate this show treating therapy as the positive, beneficial thing it is. In the Frasier forum we were talking about how that show and this one seem to share a fanbase, and the reasons behind why that might be-I wonder if the therapy aspect isn't also a factor. Frasier, of course, focused more on the people giving the help and advice instead of those who needed it, but still, both shows featured both sides of that coin to some degree or another. Just another thing to consider. 

-I'm familiar with Tony Shalhoub's more comedic side, thanks to Wings and the few other appearances of his I've seen on TV here and there, and I've always liked him as an actor in general. But wow, I gained even more respect for his talents while watching this show, 'cause man, he can bring the drama, too. For the longest time, I just remember hearing about this show as a more quirky, lighthearted take on the detective genre. I did not expect to cry as much as I did while watching this show. So many moments where Monk just broke my heart-there are some truly touching, beautiful, poignant quiet moments and storylines in this series involving the exploration of grief and moving on and so forth that I really liked. The show, and Shalhoub, did a great job of walking that very, very fine line between both the lighthearted, quirky elements of the show, and with Monk, his more excessive, annoying, weird tendencies, and the series' more emotional, serious, dramatic elements, as well as Monk's more sympathetic, caring, and loyal side. 

And then there were the moments when Monk showed a darker, more aggressive side that were quite intriguing, too. Such a sharp contrast to the innocent, mild-mannered guy he normally is. 

(Speaking of Wings, I got a real kick out of seeing Daly and Weber pop up on here :D. True, the episode with Weber involved him playing a character who was a total jerk, but still!)

-Looking back through this thread, I see a lot of people sharing lists of their favorite episodes, and while I'll need more rewatches to properly familiarize myself with some of them, there are a few I could definitely agree with others on right now, even though I've only seen them a time or two thus far. Maybe at some point here as I continue to get familiar with the episodes, I'll make my own list as well.

I know there's so much more to discuss about this show, but it's late and this post is already getting pretty lengthy, so something else to perhaps expand on in future discussions here :D. But yeah. I'm very glad to have finally discovered this show, and I look forward to spending more time here talking about it with all of you!

[LexieLily]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

-That Randy Newman theme song gets stuck in your head something fierce, my goodness.  I swear, when I first started getting into this show, there was a solid week, I'd say it was, where I couldn't get it out of my head 😛. I like it, though. It fits the quirky nature of the show, and given all the craziness in the real world of late, the lyrics are certainly relatable. 

Stottlemeyer and Disher are great, too. I especially love the way Stottlemeyer looks out for both Monk and Disher, and how his bond with each of them is equally close, yet still different and special. You've got the "old friends" dynamic with Monk, and the more father/son sort of thing with Disher. 

Yay, you're back and you finished the show. I agree with you that I love the idea of the finale that everything continues on as usual for the team (minus Disher). Not sure what your minor quibbles with the finale were specifically but for me it was that for a show who's entire focus was the main character working so hard to solve the murder of his beloved wife the ultimate conclusion to Trudy's death fell flat for me in a way that it didn't entirely feel befitting of a Monk murder mystery. I'm not sure if that makes sense but it felt like it was too basic for a Monk mystery. That's not even talking about how it felt like a retcon of everything we knew about Trudy for her to have been pregnant in college and not even her parents knew about it. In fact, it was a retcon considering the college reunion episode where it was made clear that Monk and Trudy met/fell in love when they were both at Berkeley.

The theme song is fantastic - both versions! - but it was the When I'm Gone montage song towards the end of the finale that got me, especially the repetitions of the lyrics "I'm a better man than I was before / knowing you has made me strong," which leads me into your point about Stottlemeyer (and Disher.)

One of the best things this show did, IMO, was course-correct from the early first season and have Stottlemeyer and Monk be decades-long friends and not the antagonist to Monk that he and Randy were at first. I've said before jokingly that Leland deserved hazard pay and a vacation twice a year for how patient he was dealing with Monk and Randy on a daily basis. Leland never quite got the credit he deserved (at least not in my view) for what he did for Monk for the majority of the series: as police captain, it was Stottlemeyer's ass and reputation on the line every time he defended Monk and his theories to his sometimes-reluctant higher-ups and/or the FBI. He put his entire life and career on the line for Monk, literally, by helping him fake his death and be a fugitive.

Looking forward to your list of favorite episodes and talking about them with you and all over again with everyone else, haha!

Edited March 3, 2021 by LexieLily

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Yay, you're back and you finished the show. I agree with you that I love the idea of the finale that everything continues on as usual for the team (minus Disher). Not sure what your minor quibbles with the finale were specifically but for me it was that for a show who's entire focus was the main character working so hard to solve the murder of his beloved wife the ultimate conclusion to Trudy's death fell flat for me in a way that it didn't entirely feel befitting of a Monk murder mystery. I'm not sure if that makes sense but it felt like it was too basic for a Monk mystery. That's not even talking about how it felt like a retcon of everything we knew about Trudy for her to have been pregnant in college and not even her parents knew about it. In fact, it was a retcon considering the college reunion episode where it was made clear that Monk and Trudy met/fell in love when they were both at Berkeley.

Yes, the timeline getting wonky is one of the things that stuck out for me, too. Plus the whole affair with the professor thing-on the one hand, I think that was an interesting angle, because there were times when Monk would get awfully judgmental about other people's failings (I'm thinking specifically of the actress on the show he was a huge fan of, and her wild sex life that he was so horrified by), so to see him have to reconcile that Trudy, whom he had such a pure view of, had done some things that, under other circumstances, he would have a judgmental attitude on, it works for me on that level. Because it challenged an element of his worldview to some degree, and may make him adjust that part of his behavior in the future. 

But on the other hand, I think the story would've been stronger had someone been targeting her because she stumbled upon some shady business she wasn't supposed to know. They talked in one episode about how her reporting was responsible for holding some high profile people accountable, so while that theme was technically continued here, since this judge was high profile, I would've maybe gone a different way with that aspect of it all. They still could've kept the whole thing of her doing something questionable, just more as a means to get to the truth of whatever she wanted to uncover. 

Quote

The theme song is fantastic - both versions! - but it was the When I'm Gone montage song towards the end of the finale that got me, especially the repetitions of the lyrics "I'm a better man than I was before / knowing you has made me strong," which leads me into your point about Stottlemeyer (and Disher.)

Oh, yes, that song was a lovely touch for the ending. Definitely was wiping away a few tears during that segment of the finale (to be fair, though, I tend to get emotional during series finales in general, so...:p). 

Quote

 

One of the best things this show did, IMO, was course-correct from the early first season and have Stottlemeyer and Monk be decades-long friends and not the antagonist to Monk that he and Randy were at first. I've said before jokingly that Leland deserved hazard pay and a vacation twice a year for how patient he was dealing with Monk and Randy on a daily basis. Leland never quite got the credit he deserved (at least not in my view) for what he did for Monk for the majority of the series: as police captain, it was Stottlemeyer's ass and reputation on the line every time he defended Monk and his theories to his sometimes-reluctant higher-ups and/or the FBI. He put his entire life and career on the line for Monk, literally, by helping him fake his death and be a fugitive.

Looking forward to your list of favorite episodes and talking about them with you and all over again with everyone else, haha!

 

LOL, agreed on the hazard pay :D! Yeah, I loved how, even when he was clearly very exhausted and impatient with Monk about something or other, he still heard him out and took his opinion seriously. And when he saw Monk was perhaps getting far too personally invested in a case, or when he was ignoring some issue that was clearly bothering him and which was going to blow up in his face eventually, he always took a moment to try and talk some sense into him. I also like how he wasn't afraid to openly acknowledge that he loved and cared about Monk. He didn't have that weird macho hang up about that sort of thing. Given Monk's issues with getting close to people, it was clear how much that love and support meant to him, and Stottlemeyer understood how important it was for him to know that, whether he said it aloud or showed it in other ways. 

And it's to Monk's credit, too, that he knew that when Stottlemeyer was upset with him, it was coming from a place of respect and honesty. He may not have always liked what Stottlemeyer had to say or do, but he understood why he had to say or do it, and for as much help as Monk needs and wants, I think he also appreciated that Stottlemeyer didn't coddle him. And, on occasion, sometimes he was the one trying to talk Stottlemeyer down and get him to refocus, so it made for an interesting balance there. 

I also really love Stottlemeyer's deadpan sense of humor. Levine had a perfect way of delivering a line in the most dry, smartass manner imaginable that would often crack me up :p. I have a fondness for characters with a bit of a smartass attitude, so that alone endeared his character to me :D. 

Yeah, I'll start compiling a litlte list here and see where it goes :)! 

[LexieLily]

34 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

LOL, agreed on the hazard pay :D! Yeah, I loved how, even when he was clearly very exhausted and impatient with Monk about something or other, he still heard him out and took his opinion seriously. And when he saw Monk was perhaps getting far too personally invested in a case, or when he was ignoring some issue that was clearly bothering him and which was going to blow up in his face eventually, he always took a moment to try and talk some sense into him. I also like how he wasn't afraid to openly acknowledge that he loved and cared about Monk. He didn't have that weird macho hang up about that sort of thing. Given Monk's issues with getting close to people, it was clear how much that love and support meant to him, and Stottlemeyer understood how important it was for him to know that, whether he said it aloud or showed it in other ways. 

And it's to Monk's credit, too, that he knew that when Stottlemeyer was upset with him, it was coming from a place of respect and honesty. He may not have always liked what Stottlemeyer had to say or do, but he understood why he had to say or do it, and for as much help as Monk needs and wants, I think he also appreciated that Stottlemeyer didn't coddle him. And, on occasion, sometimes he was the one trying to talk Stottlemeyer down and get him to refocus, so it made for an interesting balance there. 

Stottlemeyer was my favorite character after Monk so I might be a tiny bit biased in my commentary of him - for instance by the time Karen abruptly divorced him I felt so sorry for him and was upset on his behalf even though the episodes with her in them showed how wrong they were for each other - so I agree with everything you said. He had to be sarcastic and have that deadpan sense of humor to get through the day after hearing Randy's theories that got increasingly worse each season (but no less hysterical!) No wonder he had that bottle of scotch and a glass in his desk drawer!

Mr. Monk Goes To The Playoffs (when he somehow got box seats to a playoff game and Natalie convinces him to take Leland with him) is one of the best episodes for the Stottlemeyer/Monk friendship. We saw Leland getting increasingly frustrated with Monk for not letting them go into the game because he was convinced there was a murder outside and Leland begged him to just turn his brain off for once and have fun, and how Leland finally gave up and took the ticket in frustration and gave in. (Though, to his credit, he lasted longer than I thought he would!) And then once Leland was in the box with Bob Costas (!) and Costas was talking about what a good guy Monk was, Stottlemeyer looked down and looked guilty. He said something to the effect of "He's my best friend, and he deserves better than me."

Edited March 4, 2021 by LexieLily

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Stottlemeyer was my favorite character after Monk so I might be a tiny bit biased in my commentary of him - for instance by the time Karen abruptly divorced him I felt so sorry for him and was upset on his behalf even though the episodes with her in them showed how wrong they were for each other - so I agree with everything you said. He had to be sarcastic and have that deadpan sense of humor to get through the day after hearing Randy's theories that got increasingly worse each season (but no less hysterical!) No wonder he had that bottle of scotch and a glass in his desk drawer!

Same. I like that their divorce was more the sort where they just weren't compatible together anymore, rather than because of any one thing one or the other did specifically. I think that made it much easier to be sympathetic and sad over the whole thing. 

I do think his temperament did play a factor on some level for Karen, though-as hilarious as his sarcastic nature can be, he's also very brusque and does have something of a quick temper. My dad was like that to some degree, too, and it's the sort of personality that some people can handle more easily than others. Karen was very clearly the total opposite of him personality-wise, and while I can totally see where that "opposites attract" thing would've appealed to them, it's also understandable why it fizzled as it did, too. Some people can make that kind of balance work, some can't. 

Quote

Mr. Monk Goes To The Playoffs (when he somehow got box seats to a playoff game and Natalie convinces him to take Leland with him) is one of the best episodes for the Stottlemeyer/Monk friendship. We saw Leland getting increasingly frustrated with Monk for not letting them go into the game because he was convinced there was a murder outside and Leland begged him to just turn his brain off for once and have fun, and how Leland finally gave up and took the ticket in frustration and gave in. (Though, to his credit, he lasted longer than I thought he would!) And then once Leland was in the box with Bob Costas (!) and Costas was talking about what a good guy Monk was, Stottlemeyer looked down and looked guilty. He said something to the effect of "He's my best friend, and he deserves better than me."

Aw, yeah, that's a great example, right there. And yet, even though he feels guilty, and even though he did try and convince Monk to forgo the case and join him, I do also like that when he realized Monk's focus was going to stay on what happened outside, he let him go ahead with it and understood that it was important to Monk to check this out, and that he trusted him enough to be able to handle the investigation on his own. I think that says something good about their friendship, too :). 

Isn't that also the episode where they wind up in that big ol' chase around the parking lot or something ,and they're tossing a piece of evidence back and forth between them that's related to the case, as though it were a football? That was a fun bit, too. It's impressive how athletic these guys could be when necessary :p!

[LexieLily]

25 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Isn't that also the episode where they wind up in that big ol' chase around the parking lot or something ,and they're tossing a piece of evidence back and forth between them that's related to the case, as though it were a football? That was a fun bit, too. It's impressive how athletic these guys could be when necessary :p!

Hah, yes, the playbook, they were weaving back and forth in the parking lot and tossing it to each other over cars. Leland was a sports guy for sure, but I remember being totally impressed that Monk never once dropped it. Poor Randy was so confused, haha! 😛

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by LexieLily

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Hah, yes, the playbook, they were weaving back and forth in the parking lot and tossing it to each other over cars. Leland was a sports guy for sure, but I remember being totally impressed that Monk never once dropped it. Poor Randy was so confused, haha! 😛

Yeah, not only did he not drop it, but he got in a few good throws as well! Certainly way more coordinated than  I would've been in that kind of situation :p! I also like that scene because we know Monk used to run in school, so it was neat to see him being able to put that skill to good use. I like it when elements of a character's backstory pop up like that. 

[LexieLily]

25 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Same. I like that their divorce was more the sort where they just weren't compatible together anymore, rather than because of any one thing one or the other did specifically. I think that made it much easier to be sympathetic and sad over the whole thing. 

I do think his temperament did play a factor on some level for Karen, though-as hilarious as his sarcastic nature can be, he's also very brusque and does have something of a quick temper. My dad was like that to some degree, too, and it's the sort of personality that some people can handle more easily than others. Karen was very clearly the total opposite of him personality-wise, and while I can totally see where that "opposites attract" thing would've appealed to them, it's also understandable why it fizzled as it did, too. Some people can make that kind of balance work, some can't. 

Karen annoyed me in the divorce episode simply because of her line to Leland at the end when he wanted to know why. "If you have to ask why, that's why." It made her appear like she was divorcing him for something wrong he had done that we the audience weren't privy to and from the very little we saw of their marriage he didn't seem to be anything but a good and faithful husband to her/father to their boys.

Their fights and the multiple times she kicked him out notwithstanding - though that did give us the HILARIOUS subplot when he had to bunk with Monk for a few days. I cracked up when after two days living with Monk, Stottlemeyer said that he would call the Vatican in the morning and nominate Trudy for sainthood. LOL.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

Karen annoyed me in the divorce episode simply because of her line to Leland at the end when he wanted to know why. "If you have to ask why, that's why." It made her appear like she was divorcing him for something wrong he had done that we the audience weren't privy to and from the very little we saw of their marriage he didn't seem to be anything but a good and faithful husband to her/father to their boys

I can see how that line could be interpreted that way and how that would bug you, but I interpreted it differently and so liked Karen saying it.
I thought "If you have to ask why, that's why," just meant that they weren’t communicating ——probably because of the cop-married-to-the-job syndrome that I see on a lot of cop shows. I think Ted Levine/Leland Stottlemeyer’s look on his face helped too ——at least the way I saw it—— that he knew it was true, that he had neglected his marriage. 
Although we certainly saw him also being a caring husband in other episodes,   
that caring seemed to always be making up for not caring ——like when he bought her the expensive camera after she was almost killed by the sniper. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I can see how that line could be interpreted that way and how that would bug you, but I interpreted it differently and so liked Karen saying it.
I thought "If you have to ask why, that's why," just meant that they weren’t communicating

That's how I interpreted that comment, too. 

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

.Their fights and the multiple times she kicked him out notwithstanding - though that did give us the HILARIOUS subplot when he had to bunk with Monk for a few days. I cracked up when after two days living with Monk, Stottlemeyer said that he would call the Vatican in the morning and nominate Trudy for sainthood. LOL.

LOL, yes :D! Very "Odd Couple"-esque :p. 

[LexieLily]

This discussion brought up a lot of little things I remember about the episodes so thanks, @Annber03! :p.

One of the things I liked about Stottlemeyer and his friendship with Monk was how more than a few times he used his authority to make Randy and the other cops do random stuff to appease Monk, lmao. My favorite example is the one with the bubble-wrap when he brought over the other officers to pop all the bubbles when Monk wouldn't focus without it, but he made another officer pick up dog poo once because it was bothering Monk LMAO

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

This discussion brought up a lot of little things I remember about the episodes so thanks, @Annber03! :p.

One of the things I liked about Stottlemeyer and his friendship with Monk was how more than a few times he used his authority to make Randy and the other cops do random stuff to appease Monk, lmao. My favorite example is the one with the bubble-wrap when he brought over the other officers to pop all the bubbles when Monk wouldn't focus without it, but he made another officer pick up dog poo once because it was bothering Monk LMAO

My fav was the Halloween episode where Monk wanted the dead bird autopsied. Everyone was just rolling their eyes but he was right, as usual.

[Bastet]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought "If you have to ask why, that's why," just meant that they weren’t communicating ——probably because of the cop-married-to-the-job syndrome that I see on a lot of cop shows. I think Ted Levine/Leland Stottlemeyer’s look on his face helped too ——at least the way I saw it—— that he knew it was true, that he had neglected his marriage. 
Although we certainly saw him also being a caring husband in other episodes, that caring seemed to always be making up for not caring

I don't remember this show nearly as well as the rest of you, but that's certainly my recollection - that Stottlemeyer was presented as a rather emotionally absent husband and father.  Simply not being cruel and not cheating doesn't qualify someone as a good husband; he needs to be engaged in the family he chose to form.  But he wasn't, and then when shit hit the fan he made a grand gesture.  The cycle played itself out, and they were through.  Or, actually, she was through; he'd have kept coasting the way they were, but she knew it wasn't right.

[shapeshifter]

“Mr. Monk and the Buried Treasure” just aired on H&I, in which:

Quote

Monk…gets conned [by Dr. Kroger’s son] into helping [Dr. Kroger’s] son find buried treasure. The problem is, it has ties to a recent bank robbery

When Monk realizes that Dr. Kroger’s son, Troy, is not really working on a school project, but instead is trying to recover stolen money, Troy begs Monk not to tell Troy’s father,  Dr. Kroger, because it would “break his heart.” 
Sadly, Stanley Kamel / Dr. Kroger would be dead from a heart attack within a year (imdb.com/name/nm0112070/bio).

Quote

In Germany, Monk: Mr. Monk and the Buried Treasure (2007)(#6.6) was dedicated in his memory as he died one week before it first aired there on April 15, 2008.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Annber03]

I just caught that one, too. I like the scene where Troy and Monk are trapped together-the way Troy tries to keep him distracted and calm is good, and his idea of how to get the others' attention for where they were was great, too. 

Such a shame about Kamel's passing. I liked how the show paid tribute to him.  

[LexieLily]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Such a shame about Kamel's passing. I liked how the show paid tribute to him.  

I don't think I ended up as much a fan of Dr. Bell as I was of Dr. Kroger, honestly. 

[Annber03]

I liked him, but yeah, I can see that. It did take a bit for me to adjust, too-he wasn't on nearly as long, for one thing, so it's harder to form that same kind of deep attachment, and it can be tough sometimes to get used to a new character in general, even if/when you understand the reasons why they're brought on. And following a character who's passed away, along with the actor who plays them...that's always going to be a particularly tough road to navigate even under the most sympathetic of circumstances. 

I think for me, it helped that the show addressed that adjustment period. Monk had to get used to him just as the audience did. And I do appreciate that Bell didn't try to be exactly like Kroger. He had his own way of communicating with Monk, and it fit for where Monk was at in his life at that point. 

[LexieLily]

51 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I liked him, but yeah, I can see that. It did take a bit for me to adjust, too-he wasn't on nearly as long, for one thing, so it's harder to form that same kind of deep attachment, and it can be tough sometimes to get used to a new character in general, even if/when you understand the reasons why they're brought on. And following a character who's passed away, along with the actor who plays them...that's always going to be a particularly tough road to navigate even under the most sympathetic of circumstances. 

I think for me, it helped that the show addressed that adjustment period. Monk had to get used to him just as the audience did. And I do appreciate that Bell didn't try to be exactly like Kroger. He had his own way of communicating with Monk, and it fit for where Monk was at in his life at that point. 

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was the difference in their styles or the simple fact that he was only on for two seasons compared to Kroger's six, but Sharona was only on for two and a half seasons and to me she was as well-rounded of a character as Natalie. I didn't mind him, ultimately, for what it was worth. 

And as much as I liked Kroger he had his own things that I didn't like about him. His psychiatry skills left something to be desired at times even though he helped Monk so much. The Monk/Harold Krenshaw feud was funny but I do think that Kroger, intentionally or not, exacerbated that issue. I'm thinking back to the scene where Monk noticed Dr. Kroger's new watch, mentioned something about it being from Harold (Monk was in a Harold-hating mood that session) and Dr. Kroger didn't challenge that assumption.   

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was the difference in their styles or the simple fact that he was only on for two seasons compared to Kroger's six, but Sharona was only on for two and a half seasons and to me she was as well-rounded of a character as Natalie. I didn't mind him, ultimately, for what it was worth. 

That's a good point about Sharona, yeah. Maybe the difference there is that in her case the show started off with her, just as it did with everyone else, and she wasn't the only one the audience was getting to know as a result?

Quote

And as much as I liked Kroger he had his own things that I didn't like about him. His psychiatry skills left something to be desired at times even though he helped Monk so much. The Monk/Harold Krenshaw feud was funny but I do think that Kroger, intentionally or not, exacerbated that issue. I'm thinking back to the scene where Monk noticed Dr. Kroger's new watch, mentioned something about it being from Harold (Monk was in a Harold-hating mood that session) and Dr. Kroger didn't challenge that assumption.   

Very true. And some of the stuff they talked about-Monk's cases, Kroger mentioning him to his family-definitely at the very least toed the ethical/patient confidentiality line, if not outright crossed it. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Annber03

[LexieLily]

Mr. Monk Takes His Medicine, while a very funny episode, also bugged me because not only did Kroger apparently not consult with Sharona (Monk's licensed nurse) before giving him the bottle of pills or talk to him about a dosage to take, by the end of the episode Monk is disgusted with his behavior and throws the pills out, deciding never to take them again. Surely Kroger/Sharona could have worked out a plan to figure out a dosage that worked for him. How much of "The Monk's" frat-bro attitude that episode was due to the pills themselves and how much of it was that he might have been overmedicated? 

(That episode did give us the great line that Sharona wanted to absolutely smack The Monk, but she couldn't because "that would be hurting you.")

Edited March 11, 2021 by LexieLily

[AorTux]

RANDY DISHER PODCAST THIS FRIDAY EVERYONE.  

 

[AorTux]

Check this official site for the podcast out

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by AorTux