Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

They should have two more shooting days, though, it`s only been 6 by my count. And I think union rules would forbid shooting through the entire last week to finish by today. Hm. It`s possible none of the principal actors will shoot the final two days but strange for the Finale. Each day roughly translates to five minutes onscreen time by my guestimates. That`s still a quarter of an ep. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

It's possible either Jared, Jensen or Misha finished their scenes but filming isn't scheduled to finish until the 19th. I think this is just a wrap dinner with their favorite chef for some of the cast and crew in Vancouver. Arrow is finishing on the 19th or 20th and they had their wrap party on Saturday. SPN could have another on-set wrap party like Monday or Tuesday. I fully expect some drunk facebook streaming from one of their trailers like we got last season when they are completely finished.

 

Misha was live streaming from his home in Bellevue Washington so he could be back on Monday or even back in Vancouver for a dinner on Saturday night. I'd be surprised if he wasn't at a full on wrap party.  Like REALLY surprised.

Edited April 17, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

Only 5 episodes left to wrap everything up...4 actually, since next week appears to be a MOTW episode.  I'm sure they're ready to head home to be with their families for longer than a weekend or week here and there.  Jensen and Jared get to go home so they can spend even more time together!  LOL

[catrox14]

The reason I want the MoC to come back is for Dean to close that circle and so that HE (and me) can  understand what was the fucking point to it.

 

I mean that was essentially two years of torment and torture and him murdering people(bad guys yes but humans)  because of the Mark and the Darkness. Like how the fuck has the show NOT addressed that aspect. Not too mention that it turned him into a fucking demon.

 

So many questions.

 

Did God set it up that Dean would always take on the Mark? if so, to what end?

 

If we go with Chuck is God and he was on Earth as Fan Fiction implies then he knew Dean had the Mark.

 

If he knew he had the Mark why didn't he tell Dean what it was really for? (Yes I know the RL reason that they didn't know what they were doing yet) but it is now a question raised with Chuck coming back.

 

Why didn't he make Dean the offer Death made?

 

Why didn't he intervene to stop Dean from becoming a demon?

 

Why was Dean worthy of the Mark in the first place?

 

Was it because he had killer DNA like Buck-Leming think?

 

His desire for vengeance?  Loyalty to Sam because he opted to save Sam via angel possession rather than let Sam die or punishment for that decision?

 

Is it a lesson? If so what lesson? To let others help him?

 

Dean HAS asked and trusted others in his life to help him and he was kicked in the teeth by those closest to him fairly often, Sam, Cas, Bobby, John, GOD all at one time or another mocked him, lied to him, betrayed him, altered states or not, or ignored him. That takes a toll. He's always been one to try and fix what he broke or what he felt responsible for sometimes aptly sometimes not.

 

The MoC needs resolution and it HAS to be  ABOUT and FOR Dean.  The worst thing I can think of is that this arc was really about Sam and for Sam's story.  I've been saying that I think that is what will end up being the case but that would break my heart and piss me off to no end. I'm trying to hold on to the hope that I am as wrong as I can be.

[MysteryGuest]

I know they need a story for next season, but I really don't want to have to deal with the effects of the Mark anymore.  We know it's a curse, and we know there's a spell to remove it, and we know it released Amara.  Since Dean was prepared to be sent away to keep anyone else from being hurt, then maybe he takes the Mark back, locks Amara back up, and then heads off to never never land.  Then Sam can spend next season looking for him, to make up for the last time when he didn't look for him.  Please...just say no!

[Aeryn13]

No worries, it will never happen with Dean. Big story and redemptive world-saving moment? No way.   

[MysteryGuest]

I personally don't feel that either one of them needs redeeming, so I'm really hoping the writers don't go that way.  First of all, it's been done before, and second, there's just no reason for it.  I hoping for a team effort ending.  I know I'm probably not going to get what I want, and even though it's been done before, they will probably go for the big bang ending with someone sacrificing themselves for the greater good, but I'm going to just stay in my dream world for a few more weeks.

[catrox14]

I personally don't feel that either one of them needs redeeming, so I'm really hoping the writers don't go that way.  First of all, it's been done before, and second, there's just no reason for it.  I hoping for a team effort ending.  I know I'm probably not going to get what I want, and even though it's been done before, they will probably go for the big bang ending with someone sacrificing themselves for the greater good, but I'm going to just stay in my dream world for a few more weeks.

 

 If they had never sent Dean down that path to begin with I would feel differently but they set it up so I hope it pays off. 

[MysteryGuest]

But pays off how?  By Dean jumping into the pit he didn't get to jump into back in Season 5?  Or by taking on the Mark again and being sent to wherever Death was going to send him?  I don't think he needs to make that sacrifice for me to feel better, but that's just me.  

[catrox14]

But pays off how?  By Dean jumping into the pit he didn't get to jump into back in Season 5?  Or by taking on the Mark again and being sent to wherever Death was going to send him?  I don't think he needs to make that sacrifice for me to feel better, but that's just me.  

 

Like I said in the post upthread it's a matter of needing something to matter to and for Dean in this entire MoC SL, that he has the lion's share of the disposition of Amara OR it's critical to Dean's character development. That's what I want paid off.

 

I'm actually really starting to wonder if  Cas might have more to do with the resolution than either Dean or Sam.

[MysteryGuest]

Dean was fully prepared to live with the Mark for all eternity, and kill Sam in the bargain, if that's what it took.  So we already had him at the edge of the pit last season.  I don't want them to go there again.  Obviously, it's all a matter of opinion, but finding a way to put Amara and Lucifer back where they belong will be a win for everyone, and they can all walk away feeling redeemed.

[catrox14]

Dean was fully prepared to live with the Mark for all eternity, and kill Sam in the bargain, if that's what it took.  So we already had him at the edge of the pit last season.  I don't want them to go there again.  Obviously, it's all a matter of opinion, but finding a way to put Amara and Lucifer back where they belong will be a win for everyone, and they can all walk away feeling redeemed.

He was. And that was a great thing. But then he couldn't kill Sam and then kills Death which eliminated that option. It was just mighty convenient that Rowena could just zap it off. No withdrawal for Dean, no nothing. Just a nebulous connection to the Darkness. Pffft. Lame. Not satisfying in the least for this viewer.

Obviously they aren't going to have Dean kill Sam but I was thinking how much more intriguing to have Dean kill Death but then the spell fails to remove the Mark or only works partially so the Darkness is only partly released which would have explained why she had to grow up and it was kind of localized. Sam is coping with visions still. Dean is coping with symptoms and some diminished bloodlust. He's more Dean-like but he's seeing what losing the Mark will do to the world, so he's in a real pickle because he destroyed his out by killing Death. Now what? Summon God like via a spell he can't refuse to answer? I mean if they can summon angels why not God??

Why don't these people call me???

[MysteryGuest]

I hate to always be harping on the same problem, but to quote Chuck, "horror is one thing, but to be forced to live bad writing..."  Unfortunately, the boys are forced to live bad writing all the time.  And killing Death, and then having the Darkness (which for a tiny moment looked like it could actually be an interesting Big Bad) turn into God's sister are perfect examples of bad writing.  They should never have killed Death, but to kill Death and have it register a big fat 0 on the richter scale of Supernatural is unforgivable.  

 

The Mark needed to go away because it had run it's course as a plot device.  But the writers really were not up to the task of resolving their own storyline.  The myth arc episodes have been the weakest of the season this year, IMO.  Lucifer and Amara are just not compelling for me, and the prospect of God now joining the circus is just adding to an already steaming pile.  

 

Maybe that's why I'm just not worried about Dean redeeming himself, or who gets to kill whom in the finale this season.  I just don't care.  I really enjoy the show, and I feel bad that I'm so ambivalent about how they dispose of the bad guys, but all that matters to me is that they make them go away.

Edited April 18, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

 

Maybe that's why I'm just not worried about Dean redeeming himself, or who gets to kill whom in the finale this season.  I just don't care.  I really enjoy the show, and I feel bad that I'm so ambivalent about how they dispose of the bad guys, but all that matters to me is that they make them go away.

 

LOL Okay I can understand that. My problem is I do care! I wish I didn't care. It would be easier that's for sure.

[MysteryGuest]

Trust me, Catrox, for all of my bitching and moaning, I'll be right there watching till the bitter end.  And I really do want it to end in a satisfying way for everyone concerned, but I guess I just don't have enough confidence in the writers to be able to pull it off.  Who knows...maybe they'll surprise me.

Edited April 18, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

Confirmed Episode titles, thus far. Nothing for the finale or at least nothing Jim confirmed LOL

 

Jim Michaels Verified account ‏@TheJimMichaels

 

Jim Michaels Retweeted Fanboy

 

Those are correct!

Fanboy ‏@No1Movienerd 7h7 hours ago

@TheJimMichaels are these the official titles of the next few episodes ? Imdb aren't exactly the most reliable

 

 

[Binns]

Let's face it, the Darkness/God's sister storyline was a mistake from the get go. It was an overreach by the writers, and I think they've been winging it all season trying to get any of it to make sense. The facts don't add up, and they just keep changing things to fit the effed up plot. They cannot move on from this storyline fast enough to suit me. I've enjoyed a lot about this season, but IMO, the Big Bads are the weakest link this year.

And can it really be called a "sacrifice" when you throw your sister in solitary confinement for all eternity, just so you can get your own way? I don't think so.

Yeah, I love the characterizations of the brothers this season and a lot of the filler episodes but the longline isn't doing it for me. I'm very meh about the Big Bad, much like I was about Eve.

[trxr4kids]

Yeah, I love the characterizations of the brothers this season and a lot of the filler episodes but the longline isn't doing it for me. I'm very meh about the Big Bad, much like I was about Eve.

Post moved to bitterness thread.....carry on, nothing to see here. : )

Edited April 18, 2016 by trxr4kids

[Aeryn13]

Theoretically, I find such stories super-interesting, the problem is just that this show can`t and won`t commit to the scale and consequences of such stories. On the other hand, they can`t really back down from it now because after they`ve tussled with God and archangels, I can`t take third monster from the left or ghost number 7 seriously as a threat anymore. And this year, the standalones suck worse for me than the mytharc ones.

 

Maybe for a slight variation of the theme, they could have foregone making God and Amara siblings. There are other possible relationships and connections in life. 

 

I wonder if the "All in the family" title refers to the God family. If so, I want them to get a last name. And find out who gave them their first names. Amara being Amara, that would actually mean "God" is a random first name. Could have been Dave or Tom or something. And even though Amara said there were no parents, bah, they must have come from something. I take Butters with a garden hose any day.   

[catrox14]

 

I pointed out in the bitterness thread that the reason the mytharc is so meh for me, is because it's the same mytcharc that was introduced and has been ongoing since season 4, it was also revealed that it was also the secret mytharc of seasons 1 thru 3, which is heaven vs hell.

 

I feel like the writers are caught between a rock and hard place with Carver backing away.

 

Pretty much every outlet that covers the show or forums that I peruse the constant refrain is that viewers long for the Days of Yore. They want MoTW, they want the boys back together just like it was in s1-s2. Some want Cas gone. They want Lucifer, Chuck, Bobby, Ellen and Jo back.  They want it back being about "family".  It seems like Dabb is trying to reorient to that era and set up a nostalgia tour as the long goodbye  if the show was not renewed or J2 leave. But go BIGGER and make it about the God family.

Edited April 18, 2016 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

 

that I peruse the constant refrain is that viewers long for the Days of Yore. They want MoTW, they want the boys back together just like it was in s1-s2. Some want Cas gone. They want Lucifer, Chuck, Bobby, Ellen and Jo back.

 

I think that gets misinterpreted as well. The old episodes are on DVD or Netflix or whatnot, if someone wants to watch them, they can so I doubt it`s a request to remake the exact same episodes over and over again. Because, ironically, they are actually doing that. Almost beat for beat in storyboarding and word for word in dialogue sometimes.

 

Bring back the tone, the spirit, fun and charme of yesteryore? Yeah, that would be something else. And that can be done in any narrative really. 

[MysteryGuest]

I can certainly see how it will be difficult for the writers to step away from the God storyline, but I think it could be done.  In Baby, we learned that the ghoulpire (or whatever that thing was) was building an army to fight the darkness.  So if we assume that other monsters were/are doing the exact same thing, we could have a monster battle royale on our hands once the darkness is done away with.  All of these monster armies left with no enemy to fight but each other and humankind.  We could have MOTW episodes, only super-sized.  

 

If God does show up, he might address Amara and possibly even Lucifer, but I doubt he would stick around long enough to clean up all the loose ends.  He could leave that up to Sam and Dean, and I'm sure they could find a role for Cas and Crowley.  I just don't see how we can continue with the God storyline after this year, unless we are going to meet the parents.

[Demented Daisy]

From Misha:

This is our last day of shooting together for season 11. We have all been crying. In fact we've wept so much we are dehydrated now.

 

 

[Demented Daisy]

Look at those male-modeling sons of bitches.  ;-)

[catrox14]

Codspammit Misha. I'm really kind of scared that Cas is gonna die for real :(

[SueB]

Well I'm LOVING the mytharc.  I'm completely fascinated by what's happened and where it's going.  I don't know exactly what is going to happen, but I'm perfectly content to it play out.  The ONLY people I don't trust are Buckner-Lemming.  They're just horrible.  I'm hoping they don't do too much damage.

 

The upcoming episode titles are interesting:

 

EP20: Don't Call Me Shurley - Sure seems to me that this is where Chuck let's slip he's not Chuck Shurley the prophet but actually God in a Chuck suit.  I'm not 100% certain this comes completely to light to Team FreeWill in this episode.  It may take until EP21 before there's a real confrontation w/ the boys and God. The description says God has a proposal for the boys.  Sounds deal-ish to me.  But if there's a way to save the people of the town, I'm sure Sam and Dean will take it. The "Saving People" bit and all. 

 

EP21: All in the Family - I presume this will be exposition heavy and set up what precisely are the issues with Amara, why God did what he did and barriers to dealing with her. Theoretically, this is the episode where God gets Sam and Dean on board with helping him or else I don't see why they wouldn't tell him to pound sand.

 

EP 22: We Happy Few - oh how I LOVE "Henry V"!  I'm going with "caper" type of episode where it's all hands on board to set up whatever has to be done.  It either works and pays off in the finale OR it fails spectacularly and they have to go with Plan B (likely a Dean sacrifice, based on the photos of what appears to be Dean saying 'goodbye').

 

EP23: Looks like Amara is flexing her muscles (due to "The End is Near" sign, I'm thinking someone else is noticing the potential cataclysmic events happening).  I'm guessing that whatever sacrifice Dean is planning goes pear-shaped and we get a cliff-hanger. Because it's Supernatural.

[catrox14]

I'm reposting from Misha's twitter because it's a little bigger.

 

I need to analyze this picture.

 

So what is this thing they are sitting on.  It looks like a house? Or maybe a shed? Or a train car?But it's on a platform so maybe it is on a bit of a gimble to roll it around?

 

And just as an aside...there have been trains throughout the season; sound of rumbling trains on the tracks, whistles in the distance and disused train cars

 

11.01- In the distance along with thunder (thunder may have just be actual storm in the filming location). I also think the ambient "music" could be a train whistle sound being manipulated.

11.04 - Throughout the episode in the background

11.06 Cas jumped out of a disused train car where he held Metatron.

11.18 - Amara had Cas pinned up against a disused train car when she started torturing him.

 

And I think some other episodes.  I feel like it means something. I'll see if I can figure the other episodes that trains were featured.

 

Foreshadowing the Last Train to Heaven? ** Boxcar Willie song

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by catrox14

[SueB]

I definitely agree there's been a train whistle motif going.  Don't know what it means.

[catrox14]

So I was just rewatching  THE END...I kind of forgot this part of the dialogue between Lucifer and Dean

 

"God had Michael cast me into Hell"...vs God casting Lucifer into Hell. SPN!God is really a jerk. Made his eldest son do his dirty work....

 

I wonder if that is going to come up again.

[SueB]

So I was just rewatching THE END...I kind of forgot this part of the dialogue between Lucifer and Dean

"God had Michael cast me into Hell"...vs God casting Lucifer into Hell. SPN!God is really a jerk. Made his eldest son do his dirty work....

I wonder if that is going to come up again.

If be surprised. They didn't come up with that angle (that Michael did the fighting) that's standard Sunday School stuff. Plus it matches the painting they like to show and the brother va brother theme. I think, in this instance, God's non-involvement was incidental. bUT, that's never stopped a good retcon in the past so... You may be right.

[catrox14]

If be surprised. They didn't come up with that angle (that Michael did the fighting) that's standard Sunday School stuff. Plus it matches the painting they like to show and the brother va brother theme. I think, in this instance, God's non-involvement was incidental. bUT, that's never stopped a good retcon in the past so... You may be right.

 

Sorry I'm confused by your comment. I'm not sure where retconning would come into play.

 

I just didn't remember that it was Michael that did God's dirty work with casting Lucifer into Hell according to Lucifer in THE END.  I can't remember the show addressing it specifically in s5 beyond THE END. But I might be forgetting too. Like I would think Lucifer would have said something like 'Okay so, here you are to cast me into Hell like you did before". 

 

I only remember it being that Michael had to kill Lucifer to start the Apocalpyse so they could usher in Heaven on Earth which if he was respecting God then he wouldn't have wanted humans killed.  BUT then he needed to kill Lucifer because Lucifer betrayed God and that is why God left. I don't understand why Michael believed that was why God left and 2) How is killing humanity respecting God's creation?  Michael might have some unresolved daddy issues.

 

I have wondered if Lucifer is lying about Michael's status in the Cage as being non-functional so Sam and Dean don't think Michael is an option for them to put Lucifer back in the Cage nor another soldier in the fight against Amara. I have a little head!canon that maybe Michael is playing possum inside Adam waiting for his true vessel to ask for his help. With Rowena back, I could see Dean getting her to summon Michael to find if he really is out of commission in case he is the last resort.

Edited April 19, 2016 by catrox14

[trxr4kids]

Sorry I'm confused by your comment. I'm not sure where retconning would come into play.

I think SueB was saying that she'd be surprised if it was brought up again since it's been established canonically that Michael cast Lucifer into the pit but she wouldn't be entirely shocked if that got retconned.

 

I like your head cannon, mine is that once Michael took Adam as his vessel he immediately released his soul into heaven so Adam was never in hell. It makes sense to me because Dean and Sam were both able to negotiate terms even though Michael never possessed Dean, Adam was present when he stated those terms and conditions and Adam just wanted to be with his mom. In Appointment in Samarra Death never says Adam is in the pit, Dean does, and Death just hmms and says pick one.

 

I hope that if Chuck does turn out to be god or even if he doesn't that whole Adam issue is finally put to rest and one less thing for Dean and Sam to blame themselves for.

 

Edited because last and less are not even remotely the same thing.

Edited April 19, 2016 by trxr4kids

[catrox14]

I think SueB was saying that she'd be surprised if it was brought up again since it's been established canonically that Michael cast Lucifer into the pit but she wouldn't be entirely shocked if that got retconned.

 

I like your head cannon, mine is that once Michael took Adam as his vessel he immediately released his soul into heaven so Adam was never in hell. It makes sense to me because Dean and Sam were both able to negotiate terms even though Michael never possessed Dean, Adam was present when he stated those terms and conditions and Adam just wanted to be with his mom. In Appointment in Samarra Death never says Adam is in the pit, Dean does, and Death just hmms and says pick one.

 

I hope that if Chuck does turn out to be god or even if he doesn't that whole Adam issue is finally put to rest and one less thing for Dean and Sam to blame themselves for.

 

Edited because last and less are not even remotely the same thing.

 

 

Oh I like that head!canon. It is hereby resolved that Adam is in Heaven

[MysteryGuest]

Has the actor who played Adam attended many cons in the past?  I say that because he was at the last con.  It just struck me as interesting that Jensen and Jared followed his panel and both came out on stage with him.  Maybe Adam/Michael does make a reappearance.  I think either Jared or Jensen also made a recent comment about Adam being a loose end they would like to tie up.  Just food for thought.

[catrox14]

Has the actor who played Adam attended many cons in the past?  I say that because he was at the last con.  It just struck me as interesting that Jensen and Jared followed his panel and both came out on stage with him.  Maybe Adam/Michael does make a reappearance.  I think either Jared or Jensen also made a recent comment about Adam being a loose end they would like to tie up.  Just food for thought.

 

They get asked all the time about Adam. He's been at few cons over the years. Matt Cohen and Rob Benedict haven't been on the show in 6 years until this season and they've being doing ALL the cons. JDM was at VegasCon last season but no appearance. I think it just depends on the con and the actors availability whether they go. It's not necessarily an indicator either way if the actor will appear again in the show.

Edited April 19, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

I know it doesn't normally mean anything, but I just thought it was interesting that he showed up now.  I didn't realize he had gone to prior cons.  They made a big deal out of the "little brother" thing, so I thought his being there was rare.  

[trxr4kids]

I know it doesn't normally mean anything, but I just thought it was interesting that he showed up now.  I didn't realize he had gone to prior cons.  They made a big deal out of the "little brother" thing, so I thought his being there was rare.  

It's actually been my fear since Fanfiction and mentions at cons about returning characters and tying up loose ends that they'd bring back Adam after having been in hell for a gagillion years. For one it messes with my head!cannon and second, the angst, the blame, the shame. Just no, I do not want it (insert Seussian rhymes here).

[MysteryGuest]

I'm definitely not advocating for the return of Adam.  I actually liked the explanation above that Adam fulfilled his part of the bargain he struck with the angels, and he was allowed to go to heaven to be with his mother.  I just thought that if they were going to bring Michael back for any reason, they might bring him back in his Adam suit, since that's what he was last wearing.  

[catrox14]

I know it doesn't normally mean anything, but I just thought it was interesting that he showed up now.  I didn't realize he had gone to prior cons.  They made a big deal out of the "little brother" thing, so I thought his being there was rare.  

 

I think that is just playing to the crowd because the audience just won't let Adam go.  But you never know.

[catrox14]

I'm definitely not advocating for the return of Adam.  I actually liked the explanation above that Adam fulfilled his part of the bargain he struck with the angels, and he was allowed to go to heaven to be with his mother.  I just thought that if they were going to bring Michael back for any reason, they might bring him back in his Adam suit, since that's what he was last wearing.  

 

It didn't make logical sense for Lucifer to be Nick when he was in Sam's meatsuit when they jumped in. But I guess they just wanted Pellegrino back instead of having Sam see himself as Samifer.  So if the fanwank is that Sam saw Nick because that was who Sam saw as Lucifer then they could have Matt Cohen back as Michael in John's meatsuit since Dean saw him that way back in Song Remains the Same.

 

Now that Cas has had Lucifer and Crowley inside him, why not get Michael in there too for the complete set.

Edited April 19, 2016 by catrox14

[SueB]

Trx4kids had it right. That's what I meant to say.

I would like God to confirm Adam's presence in Heaven in 'All in the Family'. I feel like it could be a great place to tie up loose ends they don't want to revisit.

[MysteryGuest]

I watched TMATEOTB the other night again, just because I can't let go of the fact that I do not want Chuck to be God.  And there are so many scenes in that episode that just fly in the face of the "Chuck is God" theory.  Zachariah comes to see Chuck and threatens him when he says he won't write his latest Winchester visions.  He's told he can't warn them, and if he tries to kill himself, Zachariah will just bring him back.  Chuck is miserable and scared shitless.  And we know that Zachariah is afraid of God, since Joshua was able to threaten him with God's wrath in order to get Sam and Dean away from him in DSOTM, so I don't believe for a second that Zachariah wouldn't know that Chuck was God...or that Chuck wouldn't know that he was God.  It just makes no sense.

 

In Swan Song, Chuck narrated the story because he wrote the story, based on his visions.  That made sense, but it didn't make him God.  I think the only scene that makes people think Chuck is God is when he showed up at the end of Fan Fiction.  But even that makes sense because Sam and Dean's story was his story first.  So if they try to sell us the line now that Chuck is God, I'm calling bullshit.  It'll be another case of changing their own canon to either cave to the fans desires, or to resolve a plot crisis that they have no other way to get out of.  Either way, I'm not going to be happy.  And yes, I'm like a dog with a bone on this issue, but it really pisses me off how they change things just to suit the moment.

Edited April 19, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[The Mighty Peanut]

 

 

Now that Cas has had Lucifer and Crowley inside him, why not get Michael in there too for the complete set.

 

That's what she said.

 

......................I'll see myself out.

[Demented Daisy]

In Swan Song, Chuck narrated the story because he wrote the story, based on his visions.  That made sense, but it didn't make him God.  I think the only scene that makes people think Chuck is God is when he showed up at the end of Fan Fiction.  

 

No, 'fraid not.  I watched S5 live and when Chuck went *poof* at the end of Swan Song, a whole bunch of us immediately asked if Chuck was God.  Also, this interview with Kripke from November of 2009.

 

And yes, God will definitely be appearing, Kripke reveals, probably in the season finale. “One of the storylines this season is about searching for God, and we want to answer that in our own way.” He says that that’s a tough casting call and chuckles at the suggestion of Christopher Walken maybe playing his Big Man Upstairs. “We’re just trying to figure out God’s motivation, and I tell you, that’s a weird place to be when you’re like, ‘So what’s God’s feeling in this scene?’ We’re talking about what should He be like as a character and what should His world view be. It’s like, when God talks, people listen. Whatever message He delivers, it’s going to be the message of the show.”

 

 

"Chuck is God" is a theory that has been floating around for a very, very long time.

[MysteryGuest]

It might be a theory that's been bandied about, but unfortunately their own show doesn't bear that out.  I won't be surprised if they go there, because they change things at will, but I will personally think it's crap.

[catrox14]

 

ut even that makes sense because Sam and Dean's story was his story first.  So if they try to sell us the line now that Chuck is God, I'm calling bullshit.  It'll be another case of changing their own canon to either cave to the fans desires, or to resolve a plot crisis that they have no other way to get out of.  Either way, I'm not going to be happy.  And yes, I'm like a dog with a bone on this issue, but it really pisses me off how they change things just to suit the moment.

 

Can I gnaw on the other end of that bone? I'm right there with you. Thank you for bringing up all the stuff with Zachariah which I had forgotten. 

 

I think about THE END a lot these days. I can't figure out how Chuck is God works even in the alternate future of 2014.

 

I was always under the impression that 2009!God was infinite, timeless, dimensionless. He was not on Earth**  according to Joshua and they still ended up in Detroit with Sam saying yes to Lucifer. So if we believe Joshua in 2009 then it stands to reason that 2014!God should *** have been on Earth when Apocalpyse was fully underway. If he was on Earth as 2014!Chuck!God then all he did was sit by as his creation destroyed itself and advised 2009!Dean to hoard TP.  Worst God Ever.

 

ETA: Sigh. Just rereading my words and I just can't put sentences together today,  Brain fog**

***Joshua said that God was on Earth in 2009 so God should have been on Earth in 2014 and if that was Chuck then Chuck is a jerk .

Edited April 19, 2016 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

It might be a theory that's been bandied about, but unfortunately their own show doesn't bear that out.  

 

 

I disagree.

 

 

I think about THE END a lot these days. I can't figure out how Chuck is God works even in the alternate future of 2014.

 

I was always under the impression that 2009!God was infinite, timeless, dimensionless. He was not on Earth according to Joshua and they still ended up in Detroit with Sam saying yes to Lucifer. If 2014!God was on Earth as Chuck from 2009 until 2014 whilst the Apocalpyse raged on then he let his creation burn and told 2009!Dean to hoard TP and that's it.  Man, that's bad news. 

 

 

No, God was on earth, according to Joshua.

 

SAM: So, you talk to God.

JOSHUA: Mostly, He talks to me.

SAM: Well, we need to speak to Him. It’s important.

DEAN: Where is he?

JOSHUA: On Earth.

 

 

Also, we've never been told if that was actually 2014 that Zachariah showed to Dean or a construct of his designed to get Dean to say yes.  

[MysteryGuest]

Exactly, Catrox, it makes no sense.  But evidently, they don't have to make sense if they decide in mid stream that they want the plot to go a different way.  Maybe they think the fans don't pay attention to the plot anymore than the writers do.

[SueB]

In Swan Song, Chuck narrated the story because he wrote the story, based on his visions.  That made sense, but it didn't make him God.  I think the only scene that makes people think Chuck is God is when he showed up at the end of Fan Fiction.  But even that makes sense because Sam and Dean's story was his story first.  So if they try to sell us the line now that Chuck is God, I'm calling bullshit.  It'll be another case of changing their own canon to either cave to the fans desires, or to resolve a plot crisis that they have no other way to get out of.  Either way, I'm not going to be happy.  And yes, I'm like a dog with a bone on this issue, but it really pisses me off how they change things just to suit the moment.

 

I get not liking Chuck as God but I don't think you can say it's complete bullshit or pulled out of nowhere for a new canon:

- In Swan Song, Chuck LOOKED different when he was narrating. The brilliant white shirt, the calm countenance. ETA: and the *poof*

- Kripke told the actor, Rob Benedict, he WAS playing God (per Rob AND Kripke) in that narration.  So, you can say the actor and writing didn't sell it for you but there have been plenty of people speculating Chuck was God at the end of Swan Song since it first aired. Well before Fan Fiction.

- I see no LOL!Canon to have Chuck be Chuck up until the final narration in Swan Song. As I said before, he could have been anything, I believe he took the form of Chuck.  And Joshua made it clear that nothing (no magic amulet, no angel) would be able to find God if he didn't want them too.

- Given Kevin appeared and per Cas, only one prophet at a time, the boys concluded that Chuck was gone. I will be disappointed if they don't ask about this.

- In Meta Fiction, the "meta" that Metatron was spouting was that HE was God because he was rewriting the story.  Of course, that was bullshit (he was another hopped up angle trying to be God). BUT, the connection of the writer as 'God' is at least given some suggestion of 'truth' as Metatron narrated Cas going out to great Hannah and friends.

- In Fan Fiction, Chuck appears despite Kevin having come and gone and Cas identifying that Metatron screwed over getting new prophets.  Plus, he's in the role of "the writer" again.  Which seems to be the show meta statement on God ("his universe, his rules")

 

So... I get not liking the construct. I get thinking they did it poorly. But I think it's unfair to say they didn't try.

Edited April 19, 2016 by SueB

[MysteryGuest]

And it doesn't bother you that one little "poof" scene totally negates everything that came before it?  Chuck was not God in any of the prior episodes that season, so unless he miraculously turned into God, that final scene is just silly.  I bet Becky didn't know she was dating God.