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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Perhaps they're planning to "engulf" Amara in a pile of sulfur? ;)

 

Yeah, Misha's makeup today looks more like he's been burned, where as the photo posted yesterday looked more like deterioration. Maybe it's a healthy dose of both deterioration and battle wounds?

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Diane

Diane

Okay, the sulfur video:

There's blood on Cas's trenchcoat.

The gory makeup is on only one side of his face; the other looks fine.

I'm still going with road rash/battle wounds.

"Engulfment"...one of those things you don't automatically think of when around a three-story pile of sulfur.

They were having fun with that word.  Such Kids.

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SueB

SueB

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I see Twitter posts about Daneel's birthday. I wonder if this is a Cas/Sam moment. As in they have some epic Sam/Lucifer showdown and Cas is left but seriously beaten up. I can't imagine Lucifer would let himself be torn up like that. I agree, BTW, those are battle wounds. There might be some meat suit containment issues but there's battle wounds.

the real question is why is Sam not torn up?

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I see Twitter posts about Daneel's birthday. I wonder if this is a Cas/Sam moment. As in they have some epic Sam/Lucifer showdown and Cas is left but seriously beaten up. I can't imagine Lucifer would let himself be torn up like that. I agree, BTW, those are battle wounds. There might be some meat suit containment issues but there's battle wounds.

the real question is why is Sam not torn up?

 

 

I couldn't  help but wonder if only one side of Cas' face being more damaged than the other is a visualization of the internal fight between Cas and Lucifer. I mean it's not like this show is always subtle about those things.

 

Never mind on the picture of Jensen..that has to be old

Edited by catrox14
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

A bit from the morning panel at #seacon

Well..shit. This sounds...:( O_O :(.

 

se(mish)da(d) ‏@mishdad

yesterday they shot a scene were they werent supposed to cry but at the end.. jared: "dean winchester teared up." #seacon

about what they shot yesterday

jared: "it's episode 21.

" jensen: "prepare." #seacon

jensen: "the scene was so heavy so when the camera wasnt turned on me i was still [in tears]" #seacon

Edited by catrox14
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

I was just reading that quote about Dean (Jensen) tearing up during the scene.  They didn't specifically say that someone died, so it might not be that, but I wonder what it was?  There were rumors of another favorite dying this season, but who knows if those are true. They're running out of "favorites", without starting in on permanent cast members.  I suppose it could just have been a particularly moving BM, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.  Do we have any info about episode 21?  

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ahrtee

ahrtee

My guess would be Cas.  Right now, he's the most expendable (sorry...) plus IMO they've been building up to it for a while (especially with Cas's wanting to do something important to help,  which, in SPN-land, usually means going out in a blaze of glory, like Ellen and Jo); plus it's a logical way to deal with Casifer.   And, with the exception of Sam dying (yet again...please, no!) I can't think of any other reason for Dean to tear up.  Whether or not he stays dead is something I'm not even going to try to guess.  

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ahrtee

ahrtee

I'm assuming it will have something to do with Casifer, since that seems their best bet to get rid of Amara; probably that Cas has to sacrifice himself (or at least, Luci tells him so); so Cas gets a long farewell speech to Dean ("it's a far, far better thing I do...").  Or maybe Luci just tells Dean that Cas is already dead--too bad, so sad.  But Bobby got a whole episode sendoff; so I think Cas deserves three eps. 

 

Anyway, then they'll have two more eps to figure out (a) if it's true; (b) what to do, and ( c) set up a cliffhanger.  And we won't know till season 12 if Cas is still around somewhere.  (Didn't they already do that in season 7? And some of season 8?)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

From Jared's M&G with a fan at SeaCon

 

http://gunsjawlinesandhair.tumblr.com/post/141440456999/jareds-seacon-mg-tidbits

 

My question was the only show question… which was odd, but whatever. I asked about his tweet last year where he asked us if we still thought Sam had demon blood in him, as he said he had his opinion, but he never elaborated. Jared said yes. He really believes that Sam still does. So I followed up asking about the powers as the “You never needed the feather to fly Sam” line indicated that he might not even need the blood to have them, again yes he’s sure Sam still has them. He says we should like the season 11 finally as it leaves us wondering about just that and he’s hopping they explore that more in season 12

 

 

 

So....WTF is THIS all about?  Jared thinks Sam has demon blood?  Or Sam is going have powers again???  Bah! 

 

However if Sam does still have demon blood....how was he able to cure Dean of being a demon by using his blood??

 

Jared better be wrong AF on this or that entire thing with curing Dean is horseshit. Although it would pair with Jensen saying Dean was eventually going to turn back into a demon...and supports my belief that Dean was never actually fully cured of being a demon.   I mean it will be bullshit but I'll feel pretty smug LOLOLOL

 

Also WTF???

 

ETA:   My brain is farting. I won't change my post but I was rightly corrected by Mystery Guest and DDD on Sam not using his own blood for Dean.

Edited by catrox14
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

I didn't think Sam used his own blood to cure Dean.  Didn't he get blood from the hospital and have it blessed somehow?  I remember the scene at either a blood bank or hospital where he obviously stole the blood from (I'd have to watch again to be absolutely clear on which it was).  And then he tells Dean that he was kind enough to get his blood type.  Either way, we don't need any more Demon Sam.  

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

From Jared's M&G with a fan at SeaCon

 

http://gunsjawlinesandhair.tumblr.com/post/141440456999/jareds-seacon-mg-tidbits

 

 

 

So....WTF is THIS all about?  Jared thinks Sam has demon blood?  Or Sam is going have powers again???  Bah! 

 

However if Sam does still have demon blood....how was he able to cure Dean of being a demon by using his blood??

 

Jared better be wrong AF on this or that entire thing with curing Dean is horseshit. Although it would pair with Jensen saying Dean was eventually going to turn back into a demon...and supports my belief that Dean was never actually fully cured of being a demon.   I mean it will be bullshit but I'll feel pretty smug LOLOLOL

 

Also WTF???

 

 

As I recall, Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean.

 

I don't know, I always assumed that since Sam had been infected as a baby, he was always considered "tainted". He's just not actively drinking demon blood anymore so the powers are lying dormant for now. I know there's a theory out there that when Sam was raised from the cage, he was cleansed of his taint, but I never subscribed to that theory myself.

 

Personally, I wish they'd leave all the big storylines from the past alone and move forward at this point. You rarely find treasure when you dig up old crap. Mostly it's just moldy stinky trash... .

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I didn't think Sam used his own blood to cure Dean.  Didn't he get blood from the hospital and have it blessed somehow?  I remember the scene at either a blood bank or hospital where he obviously stole the blood from (I'd have to watch again to be absolutely clear on which it was).  And then he tells Dean that he was kind enough to get his blood type.  Either way, we don't need any more Demon Sam.  

 

HOLY CRAP! I completely forgot about Sam not using his own blood.  DERP!!!..which HOW DID I FORGET THAT!! Dammit, my smuggery got the better of my memory.

 

I was totally  thinking of Crowley and Sam, which still kind of makes my point though. If Sam still had demon blood, he shouldn't have been able to cure Crowley either.  Sam was supposed to have been being purified by the trials which is why he could cure Crowley because he was no longer tainted. 

 

But if he's saying Sam is going to have some powers...that's....sigh.  Sure Dean was an actual full on demon but never used his demon powers on someone else, just used the Blade...but Sam  is going to show his powers again. Sure why not LOL

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

As I recall, Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean.

 

I don't know, I always assumed that since Sam had been infected as a baby, he was always considered "tainted". He's just not actively drinking demon blood anymore so the powers are lying dormant for now. I know there's a theory out there that when Sam was raised from the cage, he was cleansed of his taint, but I never subscribed to that theory myself.

 

*giggle snort*  I won't say what 12 year old me originally read the bolded as....  ;-)

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

HOLY CRAP! I completely forgot about Sam not using his own blood.  DERP!!!  Thanks for the reminder! Dammit, my smuggery got the better of my memory.

 

I was totally  thinking of Crowley and Sam, which still kind of makes my point though. If Sam still had demon blood, he shouldn't have been able to cure Crowley either.

 

Also, Sam was supposed to have been being purified by the trials which is why he could cure Crowley.

 

Sam didn't cure Crowley...he was only half cured by the end of it.

 

Was Sam being purified by the trials? I mean, I know Sam said he thought the trials were purifying him, but as we saw, they were really killing him. I always took his thinking as being more wishful than fact, myself.

*giggle snort*  I won't say what 12 year old me originally read the bolded as....  ;-)

 

Damn it, I so wanna say I did that on purpose. Stupid brain for not going there!

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Sam didn't cure Crowley...he was only half cured by the end of it.

 

Was Sam being purified by the trials? I mean, I know Sam said he thought the trials were purifying him, but as we saw, they were really killing him. I always took his thinking as being more wishful than fact, myself.

 

 I have to start being more wordperfect in my comments. I was meaning that Crowley was on his way to being cured, not that he was ever cured. 

 

IIRC, Crowley wasn't fully cured because Sam never gave him the final dose of his blood because Dean stopped him.  If Sam would have continued with the trials theoretically Crowley would have been fully human again.

 

Either way, if Sam still had tainted demon blood, the cure shouldn't have even taken Crowley to the point that he got. 

 

Sam said he was being purified.  He never felt pure before the trials. I really don't think we were supposed to not think that is what was happening. 

 

ETA: I swear to Gods this forum is eating words I type.

Edited by catrox14
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

(edited)

I agree with DittyDot...please just leave the old story lines alone and come up with something new.  It doesn't have to be bigger than God's sister, because really...where else can they go with that unless next season has them taking on God himself in the most epic of epic battles (which I would absolutely hate, just to be clear!)  I would be very happy if heaven and hell were back to some semblance of normalcy next year, and the boys just go back to "saving people, hunting things".

 

I think the series should end with Sam and Dean passing on the hunting torch to someone else.  If they're not going to continue the Winchester line with children of their own, then they owe it to humanity to train the next generation of hunters.

Edited by MysteryGuest
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Sam said he was being purified.  He never felt pure before the trials. I really don't think we were supposed to not think that is what was happening. 

 

Being as Sam was a bit addled-minded at the time he said that, I doubt it is supposed to be taken at face-value. IMO, the show showed us the opposite of what Sam said he thought, but that's probably just me.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I agree with DittyDot...please just leave the old story lines alone and come up with something new.  It doesn't have to be bigger than God's sister, because really...where else can they go with that unless next season has them taking on God himself in the most epic of epic battles (which I would absolutely hate, just to be clear!)  I would be very happy if heaven and hell were back to some semblance of normalcy next year, and the boys just go back to "saving people, hunting things".

 

I think the series should end with Sam and Dean passing on the hunting torch to someone else.  If they're not going to continue the Winchester line with children of their own, then they owe it to humanity to train the next generation of hunters.

 

The showrunners are between a rock and a hard place.

 

They have tried new things ; MoL, Benny, Amelia, Abaddon, Kevin, MoC!Dan and Demon!Dean.  And those were met with mixed reviews for the most. Cain is probably the most accepted and liked new character since Kevin. Rowena is also mixed response. But nine times out of 10 the criticisms of the show and the way to fix it are

 

--get back to brothers ONLY

--get back to TFW

--Give more to Castiel and/or Crowley

--Get rid of Crowley/Casitel

--Bring Back Bobby, Lucifer, Michael, Kevin, Charlie, John, Chuck, Ellen, Jo, etc etc,

 

which are all the fan favorite touchstone. Yet when they do it's criticized for being repetitive and boring.  I mean I complain just like anyone else about stuff that I don't like, but really what the hell do we want as viewers and how much should the listen to us?

 

The show can't win for losing really. 

 

ETA: Okay this forum is being squirrelly. It's adding letters to words and auto correcting me.  Bah.

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

The showrunners are between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

This is nothing new.  Back in season 4, people complained about the introduction of the angels.  People complain every season; it comes with the territory.

 

So, TPTB should do what they should have been doing all along -- give the viewers the best story they possibly can.  I'm not convinced they've been doing that.  I've seen too much lazy writing to believe that.  I've seen too much, "Oh, the audience will fill in the blanks."  That's not good storytelling, IMO.

 

I can forgive cracks in the façade if the foundation is solid.  (Of course, cracks often mean that the foundation isn't solid, but anyway....)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Being as Sam was a bit addled-minded at the time he said that, I doubt it is supposed to be taken at face-value. IMO, the show showed us the opposite of what Sam said he thought, but that's probably just me.

 

There was a big ole Twitter debate last year when Jared first asked about Sam's demon blood still being a thing.  I said it should have been gone because of being purified by the trials.  Some agree others said no. but Kevin Parks the 1st AD who is supposed to know all these things said

 

Jared Padalecki ‏@jarpad 28 Jul 2015

A question from set: does Sam still have demon blood in him? I have MY opinion, but I'm hoping there's an expert out there who knows :)

 

https://twitter.com/jarpad/status/626066921574653952

 

Kevin Parks ‏@SNkevinandjill 30 Jul 2015

@jarpad the demon blood was in his system for him to be lucifer. Once his was back topside without his soul, he was clean of demon blood.

 

It's really a fantastic read going back through that Twitter exchange. People have so many different opinions.

 

The only out I can give them is if Sam was being purified and dying incrementally at the same time Crowley was being cured. Since Sam didn't give Crowley the last dose of his blood then he wasn't fully cured and Sam wasn't fully purified. But I don't quite accept that because for me, Sam's blood would have to have been purified for the cure to have worked at all whatsoever.

 

What I can't figure out is if Sam still had demon blood in him, then how could an angel,(non Lucifer division) Gadreel, possess something with demon blood in it all? I'm not talking about consent but just not be able to physically do that. Like the demonity in the vessel would reject or eject the angel.

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
Now, Sam could have been purified at the same time the trials were killing him. The question to me is was he being purified incremently with Crowley but I'm not sure because Sam said it before he ever started giving Crowley the shots. So to me, Sam's blood would have to have been purified for the cure to have worked at all.

 

It's really a fantastic read going back through that Twitter exchange. People have so many different opinions.

 

The only out I can give them is if Sam was being purified and was dying at the same time Crowley was being cured. But since Sam didn't give Crowley the last dose of his blood then he wasn't fully cured.

 

BUT what I can't figure out is if that part is true, how could Gadreel have ever possessed Sam if he still had demon blood in him?

 

I just don't think Sam having residual demon blood would stop him from doing the trials successfully. Sam confessed and purged his guilt in-order to purify him temporarily, which IMO is all that was required for the blood cure to work. It seems to me the purification needed for the blood cure is more about removing sin than being a physical manifestation of pure blood. Sam being infected with demon blood as an infant is not a sin, IMO, so I don't think it would interfere with the cure, myself.

 

The only time it was said that the trials were purifying Sam was when Sam was running a fever and having hallucinations and wanting to believe more than anything these trials would "fix" him. To me, the title of the episode, The Greatest Escapist, wasn't directed only at Kevin or Marvatron, but also at Sam trying to "escape" the reality of the situation. IMO, there is no removing demon stain on Sam and maybe it's time for Sam to accept that.

 

However, the show was never clear on this, so I think it's all left up to interpretation right now.

 

Question, though, why wouldn't Gadreel be able to posses Sam if he had residual demon blood. Lucifer is an angel and possessed him?

Edited by DittyDotDot
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Which brings up yet another theory... Gadreel took so long to cure Sam because maybe he was still a little tainted. But once Gadreel did cure Sam, the demon blood taint was one of those things that got "cured."

 

Interestingly there are a lot of times and ways that Sam could've been cured of the demon blood, and almost all of the theories have a good point and/or seem plausible. Enough that if one of the ways didn't entirely do it, then maybe one of the other ways finished it off...

 

However, I would think that Lucifer would know if Sam could still be a viable meatsuit for him or not, but then again, Dean didn't need any special outside blood (just the Campbell and Winchester bloodline) to be Michael's host body, and there is evidence that Michael is more powerful than Lucifer since he did defeat him. So basically there's a whole bunch of questions and good theories, but no real concrete answers unless someone like Castiel in show comes out and says something one way or another.

 

I tend to agree with DittyDotDot that no matter how much poor Sam wishes it weren't so, that Azazel forever tainted him which was why it took a deal to get it done, and it wasn't easy to do. However, maybe it's a good thing that Sam continues to hope otherwise, since Sam's attempt in season 4 to embrace the taint and use it for good ended very badly. If Sam is going to accept that he is forever tainted by demon blood, he'll have to find a happy medium between feeling lesser than human and feeling that he can maybe use it to be more than human... which would be a really tough thing to do.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

Question, though, why wouldn't Gadreel be able to posses Sam if he had residual demon blood. Lucifer is an angel and possessed him?

 

Lucifer is an archangel and they can do pretty much what they want and Sam is Lucifer's Chosen Vessel. Standard rules wouldn't apply.  

 

I would think if regular class angels could possess the same human vessel as a demon, wouldn't they just go on exorcisms, like if the demon gets weak enough for the angel to get permission from the meatsuit, they would just possess the meatsuit and kick out the demon.

 

So that makes me think there is some kind of "demony property" that repels angels.

 

Sam having demon blood was supposed to be solely for building him up to be strong enough to kill Lilith and to become Lucifer's vessel so Lucifer could fight Michael. Once Sam was in the Cage and pulled out completely healed minus his soul, he SHOULD have been cured then .

 

Here's the problem with Sam and the demon blood in s8. 

 

The show said fuck all about Sam still having demon blood since he got out of the pit. Not that I can remember.  Yet Sam had to talk about being purified which naturally IMO most viewers will think is about Sam's demon blood problem.

 

If they didn't want to assure us that Sam was being purified of something we didn't know was still a thing, why bring it up at all?  To me, it's because they wanted us to know that Sam no longer had demon blood in him BEFORE he started the trials so that once we get to his big emotional scene with Crowley and Dean there would be no question that was 100% human Sam who was feeling unworthy and unloved and that it wouldn't matter if he was alive and it was 100% human Sam making the sacrifice fully and of his own mind and soul and heart. 

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Lucifer is an archangel and they can do pretty much what they want and Sam is Lucifer's Chosen Vessel. Standard rules wouldn't apply.  

 

 

I would think if regular class angels could possess the same human vessel as a demon, wouldn't they just go on exorcisms, like if the demon gets weak enough for the angel to get permission from the meatsuit, they would just possess the meatsuit and kick out the demon. 

 

So that makes me think there is some kind of "demony property" that repels angels.

 

Crowley and Gadreel possessed Sam together and the only thing that sent Gadreel away was Sam telling him to get out. I would think an angel wouldn't want to possess a demon vessel just because they think of demons as scum and the sulfur smell is probably enough of a deterrent, but I don't see why they can't do it if the vessel is strong enough to withstand an angel possession.

 

I don't get your point about angels possessing vessels to kick out the demon though. If I understand you right, you're saying that angels could just remove the demons by possessing the human. I think that would work just fine except I doubt the demon would ever let the human out long enough to get permission. Plus, isn't it he same problem Sam and Dean have when they exorcise demons instead of killing them and their host along with it--the demon is now free to go possess someone else and/or inform on their plans?

Edited by DittyDotDot
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

They have tried new things ; MoL, Benny, Amelia, Abaddon, Kevin, MoC!Dan and Demon!Dean.  And those were met with mixed reviews for the most.

 

 

I've enjoyed all of those except for Amelia.  That was just odd.  And while Abaddon could have been really interesting, they didn't do nearly enough with her character.  I hear what you're saying though, and I know they can't possibly please everyone, but continuing to escalate the God storyline just seems like a really bad place to go.  This season's storyline with the sister of God has already stretched it to the max, I think.  They need to ramp it down, because there's no where else to go.

 

If the writers want Sam to have traces of demon blood left, they'll just go for it, regardless of whether it fits with what we've been told before.  That's the depressing part.

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Lucifer is an archangel and they can do pretty much what they want and Sam is Lucifer's Chosen Vessel. Standard rules wouldn't apply.  

 

 

I would think if regular class angels could possess the same human vessel as a demon, wouldn't they just go on exorcisms, like if the demon gets weak enough for the angel to get permission from the meatsuit, they would just possess the meatsuit and kick out the demon. 

 

So that makes me think there is some kind of "demony property" that repels angels.

 

No offense, but -- what?  None of that makes any sense to me.  Why wouldn't standard rules apply?  What are you basing that idea on?

 

Why would angels care about demonic possessions?  Humans can take care of those; that would be rather beneath the powers of angels, I would expect.  (From their perspective.  They are dicks, after all.)

 

If demons are able to repel angels, wouldn't that make them stronger than angels?

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catrox14

catrox14

Archangels are the most powerful angels. They can kill other angels with a snap of their fingers. Castiel couldn't do that as far as I know except as Godstiel. They have to do the hand to the forehead thing or stab someone with an angel blade. Angels are  dispatched either by angel blade, blood sigil or exorcism, or trapping them in Holy Oil, or take their grace with the swipe of the angel blade on the throat. They have to get consent to possess a vessel. Angels can no longer teleport so they are at a disadvantage. THANKS METATRON YOU ASSHOLE

 

Demons are created from Lucifer, the 2nd most powerful archangel. Demons seem to be equal in power if not occasionally stronger than regular angels. Alastair beat Castiel pretty handily and he even though he couldn't kill him but he could exorcise him pretty easily. (Wait, why didn't they just do that with Gadreel in Sam?? Sigh....LOLcanon)

 

It takes holy water, a devil's trap, demon cuffs, a demon knife or angel blade, exorcism to kill a demon. Or Sam's Hand of Ipecac or a purified blood ritual to try cure a possessed human. Mostly demons get the upper hand because they don't give a fuck about rules and they do what they want. They don't need permission to possess a human. 

 

If I needed just to slaughter in numbers? I think I'd take a demon before a general level angel.

 

Angels are supposed to be guardians of humanity and warriors for God. The angels that wanted to start the apocalpyse wouldn't care about human possession like Zachariah or Uriel but angels like Castiel, Anna, Hannah did care. Especially now that angels are stuck on Earth after they fell, IMO more angels would help humanity.

 

But I still think there is something as to why angels do not possess demons or demon occupied vessels.  And I think Sam's demon blood should have been a reason for Gadreel to not be able to possess him. 

 

YMMV.  I'm happy to sit over here being "non-sensical"

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

Demons are created from Lucifer, the 2nd most powerful archangel. Demons seem to be equal in power if not occasionally stronger than regular angels. Alastair beat Castiel pretty handily and he even though he couldn't kill him but he could exorcise him pretty easily. 

 

Alistair wasn't a typical demon, though. He was old and powerful. I was under the impression even the lowest order of angels are more powerful than stunt demons. Usually those demons high-tail it when any angel shows up. It's the older demons, like Alistair, Yellow Eyes and Lilith that are capable of taking on angels, IMO. 

 

 

Angels are supposed to be guardians of humanity and warriors for God. The angels that wanted to start the apocalpyse wouldn't care about human possession like Zachariah or Uriel but angels like Castiel, Anna, Hannah did care. Especially now that angels are stuck on Earth after they fell, IMO more angels would help humanity.

 

But, they were stuck on Earth for a whole year and not even Hannah gave a rat's ass about helping them until Cass showed her the way. In general, angels could careless about the puny little humans, IMO. They just don't outwardly go against God's orders and do them harm,, but I don't know if there is many that would lift a finger to help one unless forced to by circumstance or by God. 

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

Whether or not an angel WOULD or  SHOULD help or not doesn't really change my point about whether they COULD help by possessing humans to kick out a demon. 

 

Well, I agree with that. But, as I said, I think they can--evidenced by Crowley and Gadreel possessing Sam--if they can gain permission. But since they don't give two shits about the humans, they don't bother to try and instead smite the demon which kills the host and demon alike.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Demons are created from Lucifer, the 2nd most powerful archangel. Demons seem to be equal in power if not occasionally stronger than regular angels. Alastair beat Castiel pretty handily and he even though he couldn't kill him but he could exorcise him pretty easily. (Wait, why didn't they just do that with Gadreel in Sam?? Sigh....LOLcanon)

 

Ooh ooh I know this one! (I think) There was something about knowing the angel's name. That was somehow a problem. Supposedly they couldn't do anything about Gadreel until they knew who it really was in there. So even if they had known the angel exorcism that Alastair knew, they may not have been able to use it without knowing the angel's name. That's why they had to use Crowley's angel torture thing - so they could get Gadreel's true name.

 

For some reason in SPNverse, knowing something or someone's name seems to be a thing for some types of spells... If I remember correctly it used to factor into calling up demons as well. Or at least big level ones anyway - I think? (I think John had to figure out Azazael's name in order to call him up, though I could be remembering that incorrectly)

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catrox14

catrox14

Ooh ooh I know this one! (I think) There was something about knowing the angel's name. That was somehow a problem. Supposedly they couldn't do anything about Gadreel until they knew who it really was in there. So even if they had known the angel exorcism that Alastair knew, they may not have been able to use it without knowing the angel's name. That's why they had to use Crowley's angel torture thing - so they could get Gadreel's true name.

 

For some reason in SPNverse, knowing something or someone's name seems to be a thing for some types of spells... If I remember correctly it used to factor into calling up demons as well. Or at least big level ones anyway - I think? (I think John had to figure out Azazael's name in order to call him up, though I could be remembering that incorrectly)

 

 

Ohhhh that seems vaguely familar on the Gadreel thing. Good memory Awesome!

 

I'm not entirely sure how name thing works because I don't remember Alastair saying Castiel's name when he exorcised him.  But my memory is probably lame on that one LOL Unless Castiel wasn't really his name! GASP!!!

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Wait, I'm confused.

 

I would think if regular class angels could possess the same human vessel as a demon, wouldn't they just go on exorcisms, like if the demon gets weak enough for the angel to get permission from the meatsuit, they would just possess the meatsuit and kick out the demon.

 

So that makes me think there is some kind of "demony property" that repels angels.

 

Whether or not an angel WOULD or  SHOULD help or not doesn't really change my point about whether they COULD help by possessing humans to kick out a demon. 

 

I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here.  Angels could possess a human to force a demon out, but they don't because the demon repels them.  And Sam's demon blood, as a result, would keep an angel from possessing Sam.  Which means that Sam can't possibly have any demon blood in him.

 

Am I getting that right?

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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

I think the CW has completely given up on promoting Supernatural.  If you go to the SpoilerTV site, you'll see the following:

 

Arrow: Dialogue Tease, Photos, Promos, Poster & Comic Preview

 

 

We're lucky if we get half that.  It's really disheartening.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Arrow and especially Flash are hot commodities right now. So far DC`s TV universes ironically work better than the movie ones. But despite a certain fatigue already creeping in here and there, superhero fare is still a big thing currently so no wonder networks and studios put their backs into it. 

 

Meanwhile Supernatural largely has the same ratings no matter what anyone does so I can perfectly understand why neither CW nor WB really want to invest in it beyond the mere production costs. At this point, that really would seem an unnecessary distribution of funds. If they wanted to promote something, they have a little pool of shows that are significantly younger, really, really struggling right now and get even more ignored by the network.  

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SueB

SueB

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It's why I'm so proud of the "Shaving People, Punting Things" effort by post-production. They create AWESOME little bits, consistent with show aesthetic. We're quite lucky to have such a dedicated production staff.

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Diane

Diane

(edited)

John Badham is directing episode

 

https://twitter.com/TheJimMichaels/status/712676007938023425


I think the CW has completely given up on promoting Supernatural.  If you go to the SpoilerTV site, you'll see the following:

 

 

We're lucky if we get half that.  It's really disheartening.

On twitter these just came up:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/23/supernatural-season-11-sneak-peek-bobby-rufus?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

 

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/81401/rufus-and-bobby-return-to-supernatural-steven-williams-interview/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=tvi


 

Edited by Diane
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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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