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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)

Yeah, no, catrox. Ain't gonna happen. Sam gets two seasons to deal with his Hell trauma, Dean gets an speech in a couple of episodes, and one or two man-tear scenes. While Sam did spend ten times as long in Hell as Dean, it would be real nice if they'd have him being flinchy and hesitant...kinda like he was all hyper-vigilant and on knife's edge after returning from Purgatory

Technically soulless Sam didn't really count as dealing with hell, and the CasExMachina kind of wiped it away for the second half of season 7, but I agree we did spend more time on Sam's hell reaction than Dean's.

But I think Dean's hell-trauma arc partially suffered from the same thing Sam's going dark arc suffered from in season 4 (and it is one of my biggest complaints about that season)... the attempt at "mystery" and the "big reveal." At the beginning of season 4, the writers didn't seem sure how much they wanted to reveal, so it seemed unclear (to me anyway) as to whether or not Dean remembered hell at first. His behavior did not seem to show it, because I didn't really see any subtle clues at all, so when it was finally revealed that he supposedly had remembered everything the whole time, my reaction at the time was "bullshit!" I had thought he started remembering bits and pieces, but nothing concrete, then a little more in "It's the Great Pumpkin" and more yet in "Yellow Fever." (I had hypothesized that Uriel made him remember.) So they sort of wrote themselves into a sporadic showing of it, because if Dean had supposedly remembered the whole time, why would he react more later than he did when he first returned? That wouldn't make sense (at least to me it wouldn't). So in order to have a reason to explore his hell trauma more traumatically, they introduced Alastair and that whole subplot, so then they could devote an entire (depressing) episode and a half on it with it making sense... but then in order for Sam's "you're weak and broken" crappy attitude to be more crappy and not true, Dean at the same time couldn't really be weak and broken, so then he wasn't again. The writers were trying to have it both ways, and so it mostly ended up muddled.

With Sam's hell story, they were going with the Dean the protector thing and then pretty much the Sam the crazy thing pretty straightforwardly, so there was the freedom to just go with those things. But the soulless Sam story - like the Dean hell story - at first suffered a little from the same thing as above. There was a reveal, but the story up to that point was a little muddied, because we didn't know what was going on and the writers perhaps weren't always clear on what they should be revealing.

Purgatory was different in that we knew where Dean was and there was no attempt at a did he or didn't he remember mystery. Even then, I wished they had focused on different aspects of/reactions to Dean's purgatory experience than what they did.

That's my opinion anyway.

Edited to add:

I thought dean was there 4 months (40 years) and Sam was there just a day or 2. He was shown looking at dean at Lisa's house almost immediately. Heck my memory sucks, someone correct me.

Castiel pulled Sam's body out immediately, but he accidentally left the soul behind (and didn't have the time to figure out why Sam had acted weirdly when he saw Dean), and it took Dean a few months to figure out what was wrong with Sam and then to get Sam's soul back from hell. So Sam's soul was still in hell for all of that time soulless Sam was walking around... which with the time jump was about 16 to 18 months or so. (So closer to 4 to 5 times as long as Dean, but still a long time). Edited by AwesomO4000
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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I thought dean was there 4 months (40 years) and Sam was there just a day or 2. He was shown looking at dean at Lisa's house almost immediately. Heck my memory sucks, someone correct me.

Sam's body was taken out by his soul was left behind until Death got it for Dean in s6 so approximately a year.

Which brings up something I have never quite understood. Dean was really most sincerely dead, ripped apart by Hellhounds and his body was in a grave for 4 months but his soul was in hell for 40 years. But Sam's body was always intact and he showed up at Lisa's house just a few days later. So my question is, was Sam ever really most sincerely dead after Lucifer possessed him? Lucifer kept the vessel alive until Castiel got him out, right?

So does that mean that Sam only really most sincerely died in s2 when Jake killed him?

Edited by catrox14
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)

Yup, and Sam was killed at least twice more too - Once by Anna in "The Song Remains the Same" and another time by lightning in "Wishful Thinking."

I can't remember if he died died in season 9 at any time or if he just came really close a time or two.

Edited: oops lightning... not lightening. Otherwise I would be saying that Sam dyed himself to death. Heh.

Edited by AwesomO4000
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catrox14

catrox14

Yup, and Sam was killed at least twice more too - Once by Anna in "The Song Remains the Same" and another time by lightening in "Wishful Thinking."

I can't remember if he died died in season 9 at any time or if he just came really close a time or two.

Ah right Song Remains the Same and the lightning. I always forget those two.

I don't think he ever died in s9 because Gadreel possessed him before he was actually dead, I think.

And Dean has died like 105 times?

Did he ever die in s1 in Faith? Or s2 in My Time of Dying? Or were those just near death experiences even though he saw reapers both times?

Died 100 times in Mystery Spot

Hellhound mauling

Gunshot in s5

Heart stopped in s6 so he could find Death

Stabbed to death by Metatron (really most sincerely dead according to the show but resurrected by the Mark)

Man, that's a lot of Dead!Dean :(

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)

Ah right Song Remains the Same and the lightning. I always forget those two.

I don't think he ever died in s9 because Gadreel possessed him before he was actually dead, I think.

And Dean has died like 105 times?

Did he ever die in s1 in Faith? Or s2 in My Time of Dying? Or were those just near death experiences even though he saw reapers both times?

Died 100 times in Mystery Spot

Hellhound mauling

Gunshot in s5

Heart stopped in s6 so he could find Death

Stabbed to death by Metatron (really most sincerely dead according to the show but resurrected by the Mark)

Man, that's a lot of Dead!Dean :(

I think I was thinking of the witch in that Oz episode, but I think it was only Charlie who was killed there now that I think of it, so Sam has been truly and sincerely dead 4 times and seriously comatose at least 4 times (season 9, when his wall was broken, after he got his memories back, and after he got his soul back).

Sam is comatose a lot apparently.

And Dean's 100 times may or may not count, depending on if alternate timelines count, because theoretically only Sam and Gabriel remember that time period, and once Gabriel fixed it finally, time got reset.

If alternate timelines do count, you might also have to count future Dean, because he died too, though I guess future Dean could be considered a different person? And again that timeline maybe didn't really happen, so...

Edited by AwesomO4000
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

So, I've been watching that new promo.

 

Cas seems really different when he's talking to Dean. He's making direct eye contact when he's talking to Dean and it's not awkward. That's weird as shit to me. Given the talk of Cas making a deal with the Devil...I think he's Lucifer!Cas.

 

Question, since Cas is his own meatsuit essentially now, what happens to Cas if Lucifer possesses him? Does he just get sublimated totally by Lucifer? Or would Cas be destroyed?

Edited by catrox14
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7kstar

7kstar

So, I've been watching that new promo.

 

Cas seems really different when he's talking to Dean. He's making direct eye contact when he's talking to Dean and it's not awkward. That's weird as shit to me. Given the talk of Cas making a deal with the Devil...I think he's Lucifer!Cas.

 

Question, since Cas is his own meatsuit essentially now, what happens to Cas if Lucifer possesses him? Does he just get sublimated totally by Lucifer? Or would Cas be destroyed?

the problem is we don't know what they will do.  What makes sense and seems logical is not their best suit.  I wouldn't be surprised if it is the Cas is dead and maybe he is brought back later...

 

I also think that when we watch the real ep, we will see all the ways they mislead us.  It really looks like things are not in order and who is Dean talking to?  It may not be Cas at all when he says I'm going to hell.

 

Note to self, don't break the TV!

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

  Producer's preview

 

Wait, wait, wait.

 

So at the very end of the clip...and yes it's all out of context but Dean says to Cas

 

Dean: If it did work and she is dead, bring her body out.

Cas: And if she's not?

Dean: Run.

 

Does this mean there was a plan or is Dean asking Cas to save Amara? If not, what exactly is Dean planning to do with Amara's body? He better damn well be preparing to salt and burn it.  Hmmmm :/

 

 

http://thecwspn.tumblr.com/post/137565935201/see-if-sammy-can-hold-the-devil-at-bay-when

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Producer's preview

Wait, wait, wait.

So at the very end of the clip...and yes it's all out of context but Dean says to Cas

Dean: If it did work and she is dead, bring her body out.

Cas: And if she's not?

Dean: Run.

Does this mean there was a plan or is Dean asking Cas to save Amara? If not, what exactly is Dean planning to do with Amara's body? He better damn well be preparing to salt and burn it. Hmmmm :/

http://thecwspn.tumblr.com/post/137565935201/see-if-sammy-can-hold-the-devil-at-bay-when

Seems prudent to me. If Amara is dead, I would NOT leave that body lying around. Too much opportunity for mischief and the boys should control it vs random witch or necromancer. And 'run' is the right answer for Cas if Amara is alive. She seems to really not like Angels as a species.

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Seems prudent to me. If Amara is dead, I would NOT leave that body lying around. Too much opportunity for mischief and the boys should control it vs random witch or necromancer. And 'run' is the right answer for Cas if Amara is alive. She seems to really not like Angels as a species.

 

I won't lie, I'm more than a little bit worried that Dean is going to try and resurrect her because of her being bound to him, and because they will always try and help each other. Considering the Mark wouldn't let Dean die...maybe the Mark will compel him to try even against his will.  I hope like hell I'm wrong but that would not surprise me.

 

Would Dean even be able to destroy her body? I'm wondering if the First Blade will come into play again. I know Dean doesn't have the Mark anymore once again, since he's bound to her via the Mark maybe he would still be able to use it against her? If not, since Rowena cast the spell that removed the Mark, theoretically she should be able to cast a spell that puts it back on him, right?

 

Maybe Dean is willing to do that to kill her?

Edited by catrox14
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

I won't lie, I'm more than a little bit worried that Dean is going to try and resurrect her

 

Since we saw Amara waking up in some different location in the first promo, I don`t think Dean is going to try or do anything with her. Cas will not find her in there or specifically not find her body. So the point is really moot. I don`t really know why that is in the episode. Finding her body or not finding it would prove nothing either way. In both scenarios she could be both alive and dead. So unless they fancy playing "Schroedinger`s Amara", I don`t get it. 

 

 But it is the only part where Carver even remembered to mention Dean and where Dean was shown so I should probably be happy it is.

 

 

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Wynne88

Wynne88

Carver mentioned Dean both in regards to Amara and also said he was fighting furiously to get Sam out of the cage.  The cage storyline may technically be about Sam, but I'm guessing Dean is the one who gets all the action while Sam gets to talk a lot.  Not so sure Dean's getting the short end of the stick, but what do I know?

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catrox14

catrox14

 

Since we saw Amara waking up in some different location in the first promo,

 

I've wondered about that bit of the previous promo. I thought that was her in the Darkness vortex and I figured that was a flashback to when she was first released, not necessarily in present time.

 

I guess I don't see why that would be irrelevant to what Dean and Cas are doing either way.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

 

I guess I don't see why that would be irrelevant to what Dean and Cas are doing either way.

 

Because while I never for a second believed they would do away with their Seasonal Big Bad via random semi-offscreen angel-smiting in the mid-Season Finale, I still rolled my eyes when they showed her in the promo. Like, way to give it away completely.

 

That also means I`m ahead of the characters knowing something. They will theoretize and look for a body whereas I will go, from the second the episode start,: don`t bother, she is alive. Making those scenes irrelevant.     

 

Right now my theory would be God "beamed" her out of there. Would fit in with the spoiler of him possilby being more of a hindrance than a help. On the other hand, the angels should not be able to smite Amara either way. Lucifer just exposited she is equal in power to God. Does this mean if all the little angels got together, they could also smite God then? Ridiculous idea. So it`s possible Amara is just indestructible.

 

So far, I found the Season quite predictable. The only surprise was the "heh, does Dean actually get a shot of a storyline?" in the Season Opener. I actually did not see that coming. Other than that, every theory I`ve had on how things would play out from spoilers, they played out exactly like that. Right now I do find it a bit hard to predict the final outcome this Season but I figure that after this next episode, it should be pretty clear. They usually give a blueprint ep around this time in a Season which in hindsight spoiled the ending. Which I`m okay with. I`d rather know beforehand how much Dean gets screwed over.

Edited by Aeryn13
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

I'm pretty sure Amara is indestructible, just like God.  And Angels' smiting was kinda them giving it their best try.

 

But IMO, that doesn't make it pointless.  The Angels banded together -- that's a good thing.  

 

That she survives and we already know it is 1) kinda predictable because she's the Big Bad and 2) the promo-monkey's fault.  I don't think it makes the scenes where they talk about it irrelevant.  Even the interaction is important IMO.  Just from the snippet we saw, Dean fears for Cas' life in her presence.  Good call.  Cas is either safer due to his relationship with Dean or immediately singed due to Amara not liking anyone else having a hold on Dean.  Same goes for Sam.  I imagine Dean's instincts will be to keep those two as far away from Amara as he can.

 

In other news... Jensen said something at the convention this weekend that makes me think maybe this is part of the storyline.  He said that Dean has a hard time asking for help.  And he didn't seem to feel it was an admirable quality.  More like... why can't he let go and just get help?  That suggests to me, that this is probably an issue in the back half of S11.  Not so much a "keeping secrets" issue as much as Dean is just not talking because he doesn't know what to say.  Really, from Dean's perspective, he's already told Sam that she "saved him" because she's thankful to him (Dean). And that it must be a "lock and key" thing.  So in Dean POV, who is the antithesis of verbose, he's already admitted a connection.  We (and Sam if he saw it), know how serious it is.  Dean knows it's serious but perhaps he devalues it's importance compared to other pressing matters (like Sam in Hell w/ Luci).  

 

I'm not sure. I suspect, however, that Dean failing to ask for help is not going to work out well for Team Free Will. 

 

ETA:  Jared got a haircut -- I don't like it.

Edited by SueB
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Because while I never for a second believed they would do away with their Seasonal Big Bad via random semi-offscreen angel-smiting in the mid-Season Finale, I still rolled my eyes when they showed her in the promo. Like, way to give it away completely.

 

While you are likely correct about Amara, this actually happens sometimes in this show... Abaddon getting killed before the end of the season (2/3 of the way through, I think), for example, in the Carver era, and previously soulless Sam being fixed half-way through season 6, Eve going 4/5 of the way through, and Castiel/Crowley being the "Big Bads" in the end. Or in season 4 where Uriel and Alastair are killed 2/3 of the way through and Zachariah ends up being the Big Bad.

 

So far, I found the Season quite predictable. The only surprise was the "heh, does Dean actually get a shot of a storyline?" in the Season Opener. I actually did not see that coming. Other than that, every theory I`ve had on how things would play out from spoilers, they played out exactly like that. Right now I do find it a bit hard to predict the final outcome this Season but I figure that after this next episode, it should be pretty clear. They usually give a blueprint ep around this time in a Season which in hindsight spoiled the ending. Which I`m okay with. I`d rather know beforehand how much Dean gets screwed over.

 

I'm likely going to sound like a jerk here, so I apologize in advance, but I have to disagree with you. I have a really good memory (well for trivial stuff - I have an annoying brain), and I was pretty sure that I was the first one (on this board anyway) to predict that it was Lucifer who was giving Sam the visions. I even predicted how it happened - i.e. that it was because the cage was shaken up/ damaged.That was right after episode 2. To be sure, I checked back, and you had theorized that it was God or an archangel and then Michael after it was learned that young John would be in Sam's vision. Around the same time period, you also predicted that Sam would never tell Dean about his being infected, even after the fact, and that Dean would have to give a groveling speech when Sam saved the infected people. I didn't look at any more (I mostly wanted to make sure that I remembered correctly about predicting Lucifer - and I had), so I'll take you at your word that you predicted the things happening after that, but there were at least some things that surprised you this season - at least in the beginning, so the writers deserve at least that, in my opinion anyway.

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SueB

SueB

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IDK... but it's too short for me.  And yes, I'm a grown woman complaining about his hair.  I used to not care. Then I did the S7 rewatch and I'm now hair-alert.  

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)

So far, I found the Season quite predictable. The only surprise was the "heh, does Dean actually get a shot of a storyline?" in the Season Opener. I actually did not see that coming.

 

Same for me. Lucifer was the obvious culprit, but I also had my fears(generated by the writing history on this show) that this time in order to make Sam THAT special that Carver and Co. would simply not go with the obvious. But they stayed true to form and still consistent in this dubious area of the writing-which in this case, was a relief and a Godsend. Heh.

I suspect, however, that Dean failing to ask for help is not going to work out well for Team Free Will.

 

 

Unfortunately, if they stay true to S5 form, Dean will be booted from the myth-arc in the end and relegated back to being strictly the emotional support for Sammy role; and this, whether he asks for help or not. I also saw that Jensen said at this con that he would like to see the reasons behind why Dean feels that he cannot ask for help. I only want to see this if it strengthens the Dean character enough so that he'll be allowed a more actively heroic part in taking down the Big Bad this time, but I'm fearful that the explanation will be the reason that Sam simply must do it all again; that because of the bond, Dean will not be effective in trying to take Amara down and so must step back-again-and let Sam do it-because see, when Sam had the connection with the Big Bad in S5, he was the only one who could overcome him, but with the consistent double standards within the writing of the two main characters on this show, it will be the opposite with Dean. IOW, because of his bond with the Big Bad, Dean will be the only one who can't stop her, and so will have to step back; and his realizing this and throwing all his supporting behind Sam doing it will again be the extent of his heroics in this storyline too. Most of the Deanfans that I know are extremely fearful of this happening again just because it's Dean and not Sam who's being written for and even though if they were to follow the template laid out in S5, Dean should be and play the most important/central part in banishing The Darkness. So...the fear is there in many Deanfans that this is more likely where they will deviate from the predictable in this particular storyline, even while staying the course regarding how they wrote and treated each main character and each main character's heroism in that season.

Edited by Myrelle
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

when Sam had the connection with the Big Bad in S5, he was the only one who could overcome him, but with the consistent double standards within the writing of the two main characters on this show, it will be the opposite with Dean.

 

Yup, is my biggest fear too. These writers are totally capable of giving Dean nominally the "Chosen One" role and still relegating him to the sidelines. I actually dread this next episode because if the set-up for that is there, I think it will be mirrored in the final outcome. .  

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

More about the submarine episode:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/19/supernatural-episode-wwii-submarine

It involves going back in time. How? Who does it? Why? Does it somehow tie in with Amara?

 

 

I'm just going point out that I called this being a time travel episode :). ETA as did Demented Daisy.

 

Cas has the capability of sending Dean back in time. He did it  twice "In the Beginning" and 'Frontierland'.  And Dean was popped back in Time via Chronos. Any angel with enough Grace could do it. I would imagine even Rowena could do it or Crowley. Abaddon time traveled to get Crowley's son.

 

I'm also thinking that the little acceptance speech with Jensen wearing the snug blue button down and a white tshirt was a uniform for this episode?

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)

I think the angels are now depowered after the fall and don't have the ability to time-travel. I'm not sure if it's to do with them being "wingless" now or if it's just that heaven got so screwed up by Marvatron's spell.

 

Abbadon used the "blood leads to blood" spell to get Crowley's son. Which didn't even make sense anyway since Crowley himself isn't in his own body; where'd she get the blood that led to blood?

 

Maybe it's a God of some sort...like Cronus?

 

I don't know...

Edited by DittyDotDot
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catrox14

catrox14

I think the angels are now depowered after the fall and don't have the ability to time-travel. I'm not sure if it's to do with them being "wingless" now or if it's just that heaven got so screwed up by Marvatron's spell.

 

Abbadon used the "blood leads to blood" spell to get Crowley's son. Which didn't even make sense anyway since Crowley himself isn't in his own body; where'd she get the blood that led to blood?

 

Maybe it's a God of some sort...like Cronus?

 

I don't know...

 

Chronus is dead because they killed him in s7 in Time after Time. 

 

Any of the Archangels that are still alive could do it. Maybe Gabriel is still out there. Or maybe it's like the blood spell Henry used to find John but found Sam and Dean instead? Maybe someone in the Winchester/Campbell clan was WW2 submariner or spy?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

 

“Coming up a bit later, we’re going to see the boys come across a case and realize they are investigating a case that was investigated years earlier by Bobby and Rufus,”

 

Called it.

 

As for the submarine ep, I do hope it`s better than the Angel (the show) one. The only good thing in that was one guy asking Angel if he could imagine what it felt like hearing the screams and pleas of dying men. And everyone was staring at him. Now that is the kind of humour I dig.

Edited by Aeryn13
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catrox14

catrox14

 

“seemed like Amara was about to consume Dean’s soul, but then she either changed her mind or couldn’t physically do it. What happened?”

Carver: “That is one left up to the viewer to decide. We’re happy to let that one sit right where it is, and it’s all part of the complexities of the relationship between these two.”

 

WHY THE FUCK would they not give us more insight into that pretty important moment? This sounds like they NEVER intend to explain that moment. This isn't a damn complex or reciprocal relationship. Dean is bound to her against his will because of the Mark.  It's bullshit to have one of your TWO MAIN characters involved in a non-consensual kiss and then say NOPE it's the viewer's discretion and interpretation.

 

You're seriously not going to explain why your BIG BAD couldn't/wouldn't/didn't do to him Dean what she did to all her other victims. /head desk head desk 

 

excuse me whilst I go and flip a table.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

 

WHY THE FUCK would they not give us more insight into that pretty important moment? This sounds like they NEVER intend to explain that moment.

 

If it was another character, it would be played out later for some plot reason within the mytharc. Since it is Dean, they just basically threw it in for shits and giggles with no further importance. 

 

At this point, I do not know why they bothered to give him this bond with Amara in the first place? They apparently don`t intend to do anything plotwise with it. It`s not for a myth reason. And they hardly seem interested in exploring it in the show. Why write a storyline noone in the writers room seems to champion? Even I didn`t expect Dean to have anything to do so it surprised me in the Opener. But now it looks like a storyline that is in the show but also not in the show at the same time.

 

Or is the reason that they needed something so Dean has to sit it out later on? They already gave Sam the whole visions shtick and Lucifer now, they could and can easily make that into Sam Chosen-One-ness which by default means Dean on the sidelines. There is no reason to invent a nothing of a story to facilitate that when plain nothing has always sufficed for them. 

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

Eric Kripke tweeted it as well. That's REALLY interesting.....could he be back in the fold. I know he's kind of a consultant on the fringe but maybe he's doing something more?

 

 

So that was Jensen's wardrobe in that PCA thank you video. Oh man...these guys know how to do a great promo. Build the tension without giving away ALL the plot points.

 

Fucking hell. Cas is really in deep shit. But thank gods Dean says "We are going to save Cas and gank the Darkness"  YAS!!!

Edited by catrox14
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Demented Daisy

Demented Daisy

Episode description for Into the Mystic, according to my cable listing:

 

When people are met with violent deaths after listening to a mysterious song, Dean and Sam investigate.

 

 

Wasn't this originally The Sound of Silence?  Reminds me of an old episode of Friday the 13th -- but SPN frequently does.

 

 

Holy fuck. Robbie Thompson just tweeted a SPN staff promo.

 

I'm not okay.

 

Well, they certainly want us to think that Castiel is dead, don't they?  I'm annoyed by Crowley's VO in the beginning, but I'm tired of the character, period.  Kill him, show, kill him!

 

Yeah, never gonna happen.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

So Casifer then? 

 

Dean says "we`re gonna ice the devil" so I`d say Lucifer escapes - don`t think he refers to Crowley. And "we`re gonna save Cas" to Sam`s "we`re gonna get him back." 

 

Cas says "yes" then, Lucifer is a big drama queen who writes "I am coming on his chest", Casifer has a moment with Rowena and then is in the wind. A very meh-ish option to me.

 

Especially since if Lucifer is free, I`m pretty sure he will possess Sam once more in the end for the big hero deed. A 100 % re-do of Suck Song? Urgh. 

 

 

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Well, at least Dean isn't the Samsel in distress. I haven't had a chance to look at the above clips yet, but if it is Casifer,* I guess that means that Castiel has to sacrifice to get Sam out. Really? Again?

 

Even if Dean only saves Castiel and Castiel does most of the world saving, at least Dean isn't the dupe and the damsel like Sam would be. In my opinion, Carver hasn't let Sam be much of anything else since he took over - and the trials don't count, because Sam didn't finish them (I guess making Sam the one who gives up - again, like the beginning of season 8 - as well).

 

* And I guess that also means the Sam / Lucifer connection will be shifted to Castiel now, just like Meg was.

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catrox14

catrox14

But Cas is an angel. Why point a gun at him? What does Sam have some kind of special angel bullets now? That would make no sense.

 

It sure looks like Cas to me in that promo. If it's not, then who is it?

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Omegamom

Omegamom

(edited)

Crowley's R&D department melted down an angel blade to make angel bullets at the end of S08. What with all the angel wars and the fall, I expect Earth is simply littered with the things.

However...if it's Casifer the gun is pointed at, it won't work, because you need an archangel blade to kill him (possibly), and there were only four of those, and god knows where those are (figuratively speaking).

So I see four possibilities:

1. Sam pointing the gun is a fruitless threat, because it just has regular bullets or demon-killing bullets.

2. Sam's gun has plain old angel bullets, which might injure Casifer, but not kill him.

3. Sam and Dean found an archangel blade (maybe that's why they're back in time???) (or maybe Michael/Adam gives it to them?) and melted it down into bullets

Or...

4. Grigori swords are maybe the equivalent of archangel blades in terms of power, and they got Claire's and melted it down.

::!! scurries off to scribble down ideas that were stalling my next multi-chapter fic...!!::

Edited by Omegamom
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