Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[chraume]

1 hour ago, madmaverick said:

Some critics were annoyed by the questions being posed or by the cancellation?

Entertainment outlets must be celebrating another round of clicks from articles with non information. ;)

I never thought any additional information would be forthcoming anyway.  It's in everyone's interests to move on.  

My guess is that they're annoyed that it's still being asked -- at this point, I'd assume everyone knows that nothing new is coming, and I actually think it's only one select site (we can alllllll guess) who's getting substantial clicks. In fact, if I remember correctly, wasn't it TVLine who asked specifically in Jan. about a "spinoff," thereby starting all of that drama? Wouldn't surprise me if it was their question again.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, madmaverick said:

Better them than her. ;)  

Well, of course! But she also could have blamed it on Paul Lee. 

I do wonder if it's true. It makes sense that ABC was never sure it wanted to renew and didn't like the final pitch/numbers they got. It also makes sense that the producers were revamping things because they thought a change and lower costs was their only chance at renewal. But it seemed like lots of people involved seemed really shocked by it (even if they filmed the alternate ending). And most people wouldn't be shocked if they were told it was up in the air, but maybe they were just putting up a front.

But it's really nothing new. I still hope for a tell all book.

48 minutes ago, chraume said:

My guess is that they're annoyed that it's still being asked -- at this point, I'd assume everyone knows that nothing new is coming, and I actually think it's only one select site (we can alllllll guess) who's getting substantial clicks. In fact, if I remember correctly, wasn't it TVLine who asked specifically in Jan. about a "spinoff," thereby starting all of that drama? Wouldn't surprise me if it was their question again.

And TVLine also posted an article with the quote about it.....

[chraume]

3 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

And TVLine also posted an article with the quote about it.....

I saw that. I mean, I get it -- it's (again) their most-commented article of the day, and that has to be translating into substantial clicks, but... come on, guys. That well is dry. Hang tight for a few years until people actually want to give up more info, otherwise... 

[oberon55]

Here's a funny story about letting things go. I was in line at HEB (grocery store) not long ago & they had all the rags displayed. One of them (I think it was the Enquirer but I'm not sure) had the headline "Why Betty White Hated Beatrice Arthur". That show's last season was damn near 25 years ago. So I would not hold my breath while waiting for them to stop milking every last drop of blood they can from Castle.

[madmaverick]

Oberon, that is sad and scary.  So tabloids beat the dead horse until it's a magical unicorn that keeps on giving. ;)  But again, it's that unhealthy symbiotic relationship between readers and tabloid publishers/online gossip sites where anything goes, between fans hungry for any scraps even if it's non news and trolls and haters desperate to vent in comment sections and clickbait publishers.  Until you cut the cord and people can't make any money off it, it's going to continue.

17 hours ago, chraume said:

My guess is that they're annoyed that it's still being asked -- at this point, I'd assume everyone knows that nothing new is coming, and I actually think it's only one select site (we can alllllll guess) who's getting substantial clicks. In fact, if I remember correctly, wasn't it TVLine who asked specifically in Jan. about a "spinoff," thereby starting all of that drama? Wouldn't surprise me if it was their question again.

TV Line has generated its substantial click volume from teasing (twisting? ;)) each crumb of info, or often, non info, and every soundbite out of context, into a j new 'article' that aims for maximum (unwarranted) drama.  They are pros at this and it obviously keeps the clicks coming so I don't see them stopping.  Other sites will only emulate their style as they see that sensationalising and generally making a mountain out of a molehill works for clicks.  I don't recall what was exactly said about a spinoff but I doubt it was anything definitive, more like hypothetical and vague, possibly in answer to a leading question from a site wanting clicks and drama in the first place. ;)  And then of course it took on a life of its own in our own drama loving fandom. ;)  Vague hypothetical answer somehow gets turned into fandom 'fact', just as random 'rumors' from dubious sources, if any, do.  Look at Trump and you can see how many lies and BS he can spin from his idea of 'facts', and sadly, how many people will believe.

16 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I do wonder if it's true. It makes sense that ABC was never sure it wanted to renew and didn't like the final pitch/numbers they got. It also makes sense that the producers were revamping things because they thought a change and lower costs was their only chance at renewal. But it seemed like lots of people involved seemed really shocked by it (even if they filmed the alternate ending). And most people wouldn't be shocked if they were told it was up in the air, but maybe they were just putting up a front.

But it's really nothing new. I still hope for a tell all book.

Nah, no one will ever spill the beans imo.  Highly doubt Nathan and Stana will talk about their relationship in any revealing way ever again.  If they ever do, we've got to meet back here. ;)  Whatever was going on between the studio and the network, and there should have been going ons considering they were in the same corporate family, they didn't manage it well.  I think money was the decisive factor at both ends as it's almost always about the money in Hollywood.

In other news, Nathan will be doing an arc in Modern Family this upcoming season, playing a weatherman named Rainor Shine.  I admit I laughed at the name.  That's a good start. 

[BellyLaughter]

Did anyone read the comments section on a TVLine Castle bait article where Matt Mitovich was asking Castle fans to not go down that silly rabbit hole again?? Coming from the chief enabler I thought that was a bit rich!! 

[WendyCR72]

TV Line says Stana Katic's movie, Sister Cities, will air on Lifetime.

[metaphor]

Stana will also be participating in a play in New York for one night in September. Her night has sold out since the announcement, though.

[TWP]

People, do *not* wish my TVLINE articles away! In the comments for the latest article regarding Sister Cities going to Lifetime, Matt actually implied that TVLine practices journalism. Bawww---hahahaha. Don't deny me my comedy, please. 

[TWP]

In case Castle (who lives on as a character, even if his show is canceled) needs any deep fried twinkies, now he doesn't have to cheat on Beckett ;-).

http://www.kcra.com/news/want-some-deepfried-twinkies-head-to-walart/41172348?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_campaign=KCRA 3&Content Type=Story

[KaveDweller]

On 8/9/2016 at 6:23 PM, metaphor said:

Stana will also be participating in a play in New York for one night in September. Her night has sold out since the announcement, though.

Too bad it's sold out, it sounds like an interesting project, I would have considered going.

I realize it will perform other nights without Stana, but I'm less interested in making an effort for that.

Edited August 13, 2016 by KaveDweller

[WendyCR72]

I wonder if ABC Studios is glad it no longer has two shows with issues to deal with? Because the Criminal Minds fallout seems even more tense than Castle. Imagine my surprise when I read at Variety.com today that even though CBS airs the show, it is an ABC Studios property.

And they and CBS both came to the decision today to cut the lead over there loose after a physical altercation with a writer...

[AntiBeeSpray]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I wonder if ABC Studios is glad it no longer has two shows with issues to deal with? Because the Criminal Minds fallout seems even more tense than Castle. Imagine my surprise when I read at Variety.com today that even though CBS airs the show, it is an ABC Studios property.

And they and CBS both came to the decision today to cut the lead over there loose after a physical altercation with a writer...

Maybe.

Just came across this via MSN.

Nothing like ABC's non answer to that one.

[McManda]

I still don't buy Dungey's explanation. Two parallel tracks? Yeah, I get that ABC was upfront with the studio about the possibility of cancellation. But I don't think that, if presented with the truth of "we might not renew you ... we'll see" the studio and TPTB cm back with "what if we (1) go in a different direction" by further separating Castle and Beckett [that had already proven to be an iffy-at-best idea] or (2) "how 'bout we cut costs and get rid of one of the two biggest expenses" [and it's always been about Stana, sorry Tamala]. Both options are ... well, calling them less than ideal would be generous.

Either there's quite a bit of story we're missing or ABC is trying to make the studio look like the bad guy. Probably both.

[371012]

Watching Rizzoli and Isles.  They recycled the never annulled Vegas marriage, another brilliant woman (Maura), still married to her college flame 20 years later.  But the REALLY funny thing is that her not-ex-husband was also Beckett's not-ex-husband, same actor!!!

[madmaverick]

17 hours ago, 371012 said:

Watching Rizzoli and Isles.  They recycled the never annulled Vegas marriage, another brilliant woman (Maura), still married to her college flame 20 years later.  But the REALLY funny thing is that her not-ex-husband was also Beckett's not-ex-husband, same actor!!!

Are you kidding me?!  What was the excuse for the marriage not being annulled?  Was it played for laughs or for drama, or both?  I don't really see there being a compelling dramatic reason for people to lose their brains even if something like this happened 20 years ago. It's thin backstory for me.  But what a joke that it's the same actor!  Did he play the same kind of ex as well? ;)

I've never watched Criminal Minds so have no idea about what's going on beyond the obvious headline.  But I noticed that what passes for entertainment journalism had a lot of "I heard"s and backtracking into "allegedly" after the initial reports. ;) And it seemed as if there were big gaps of info missing in the reported story, and various bts machinations and leaks by various parties at work.  I did wonder what kind of creative differences could possibly arise to inflame passions to this extent on a show like Criminal Minds, an old procedural.  Isn't it all the same week in week out? ;)

[371012]

Excuse: They had paperwork done to annul the marriage the next morning. Attorney had a stroke before filing it. It apparently crossed neither's mind that they maybe should have received some disposition or something in the mail at a later date. Other stupidity, Maura called him her ex-husband which would be incorrect for an annulment. At least he was a decent guy on R&I, originally a suspect but turned out to be tracking down a Ponzi scheme hedge fund guy who tried to kill him. And Maura, of course. They had a happy divorce party at the end. So yes, stupid. Could have left it at just being a long lost college buddy. Instead just made her look dumb.

Oh, and regarding Criminal Minds: what grown man KICKS somebody in the workplace?! Wow.

[madmaverick]

Thanks for the lowdown, 371012.  At least neither Beckett nor Maura were lawyers, otherwise it really would have been too much! ;)  These long lost husband/relative stories just leave me cold.  How do they really inform the character other than creating (implausible) drama for drama's sake? I accept old flames popping up as part of most series, but forgotten husbands are a bit too much.

Agree re the kicking.

Although this is not to bring up any drama because God knows there's been enough of that in the fandom, but there was that foot stamping scene in the bloopers for 501 in the S5 blooper reel, which I could never figure out were part of the scene, or not... I'm going to assume they were trying something new in the scene rather than anything bts, because otherwise weird for that to be included in the bloopers.

Will watch the last season's bloopers with interest, but I don't expect any bts revelations from bloopers.

[madmaverick]

Oh TV Line, why must you make me click on you again?  

Deleted scene from the DVD.  Meh, imo.  Someone who didn't watch the show might wonder if Caleb and Beckett were flirting.  Dynamic felt similar to when Demming was visiting the precinct.  Never cared for or about Caleb so another scene with him does nothing for me.  Surprisingly a bit more Lanie in the episode where she did finally get more focus, but she still got cut.  Nice to see some Beckett/Lanie but it was all rather blah. Don't feel them as BFFs anymore.

Review  of the S8 DVD.  Agree with a lot of it.  3 deleted scenes feels really skimpy to me but I forget how many there were in previous seasons and they were usually nothing to write home about.  Except for the Always deleted scene, I guess.

[KaveDweller]

11 hours ago, madmaverick said:

Oh TV Line, why must you make me click on you again?  

Deleted scene from the DVD.  Meh, imo.  Someone who didn't watch the show might wonder if Caleb and Beckett were flirting.  Dynamic felt similar to when Demming was visiting the precinct.  Never cared for or about Caleb so another scene with him does nothing for me.  Surprisingly a bit more Lanie in the episode where she did finally get more focus, but she still got cut.  Nice to see some Beckett/Lanie but it was all rather blah. Don't feel them as BFFs anymore.

Review  of the S8 DVD.  Agree with a lot of it.  3 deleted scenes feels really skimpy to me but I forget how many there were in previous seasons and they were usually nothing to write home about.  Except for the Always deleted scene, I guess.

It took me a second to even remember she suspected him of working with Locksat. Did like seeing Beckett sort of supporting Lanie, but it was so short it didn't 

I'm not going to read the comments on that TV Line article. I'm really not.

I wonder if any of the three deleted scenes (well, the remaining two) will show Castle and Beckett interacting. That's really the only ones I would care about. There have definitely been a lot more than three in the past, I think usually it is 6-8ish. But usually half of them are short and pointless and only 3ish are good meaningful. Aside from the Always one (that's not even on the S4 DVD) I remember a really nice one in Veritas of Beckett putting away her mom's ring and one from Watershed showing Beckett angsting about her and Castle and him brushing off her lame attempt at talking.  There was also a cute Alexis/Beckett scene back in season 1 or 2. I'm guessing this season we get 3 that are worthless, because why wouldn't they give the best one to TV Line to promote them?

The commentaries don't sound too appealing. My least favorite are when the commentators just stop talking and watch the episode. I also tend to like the writers/producers getting to talk on them, and we only get the one new writer who can be bothered to do it for S8. Do they get paid extra for things like this?

I'm sure the blooper reel and the deleted scenes will end up on YouTube, so I see no reason to buy the DVDs. And I have all seven seasons so far.

[madmaverick]

Guess TV Line didn't get all the Castle exclusives after all.  Another deleted scene.  I vaguely remember the episode with the guest star playing the Russian security agent but I don't remember this setting at all.  Slightly amusing scene, though who would bring a selfie stick to a posh party.  Can't you just take a selfie without it? ;)  But at least someone recognised Castle as an author.  Am not going to miss the exclusively dark clothes Luke dressed him in.  In a dimly lit set, he's almost blending into the furniture. 

Quote

I'm not going to read the comments on that TV Line article. I'm really not.

Best not.  You only lose brain cells and up your blood pressure that way.  Though I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Castle articles from TV Line. ;)

Quote

Aside from the Always one (that's not even on the S4 DVD) I remember a really nice one in Veritas of Beckett putting away her mom's ring and one from Watershed showing Beckett angsting about her and Castle and him brushing off her lame attempt at talking.  There was also a cute Alexis/Beckett scene back in season 1 or 2. 

Yeah, those are the ones that I remember too.  To be fair, I have found deleted scenes on DVD on other shows to be rather blah as well.  I wish we had more scenes like that between Alexis/Beckett (about hot chocolate, right?) where two characters are just hanging out and chatting about something interesting if not necessarily important.  I like conversational scenes more than exposition/plot scenes where something's happening.  There were plenty of those in the episode already.  But the Castle writers just stopped writing these slice of life scenes.

I am interested in the locked room extra although I don't expect to be wowed. 

[371012]

6 hours ago, madmaverick said:

Guess TV Line didn't get all the Castle exclusives after all.  Another deleted scene.  I vaguely remember the episode with the guest star playing the Russian security agent but I don't remember this setting at all.  Slightly amusing scene, though who would bring a selfie stick to a posh party.  Can't you just take a selfie without it? ;)  But at least someone recognised Castle as an author.  Am not going to miss the exclusively dark clothes Luke dressed him in.  In a dimly lit set, he's almost blending into the furniture. 

Best not.  You only lose brain cells and up your blood pressure that way.  Though I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Castle articles from TV Line. ;)

Yeah, those are the ones that I remember too.  To be fair, I have found deleted scenes on DVD on other shows to be rather blah as well.  I wish we had more scenes like that between Alexis/Beckett (about hot chocolate, right?) where two characters are just hanging out and chatting about something interesting if not necessarily important.  I like conversational scenes more than exposition/plot scenes where something's happening.  There were plenty of those in the episode already.  But the Castle writers just stopped writing these slice of life scenes.

I am interested in the locked room extra although I don't expect to be wowed. 

When you say interested in the locked room extra, I agree.  I'm interested in seeing how many of the cast are in the locked room!!!  I've been trying to get some of my coworkers to do one of those where you're shut in an office.  They'd rather go out for drinks than think not on the job!!

[metaphor]

54 minutes ago, 371012 said:

When you say interested in the locked room extra, I agree.  I'm interested in seeing how many of the cast are in the locked room!!!  I've been trying to get some of my coworkers to do one of those where you're shut in an office.  They'd rather go out for drinks than think not on the job!!

Per this review, Nathan Fillion, Molly Quinn, Tamala Jones, Toks Olagundoye, and Jon Huertas are involved in the locked room feature.

[anoldfriend]

On August 13, 2016 at 2:51 PM, McManda said:

I still don't buy Dungey's explanation. Two parallel tracks? Yeah, I get that ABC was upfront with the studio about the possibility of cancellation. But I don't think that, if presented with the truth of "we might not renew you ... we'll see" the studio and TPTB cm back with "what if we (1) go in a different direction" by further separating Castle and Beckett [that had already proven to be an iffy-at-best idea] or (2) "how 'bout we cut costs and get rid of one of the two biggest expenses" [and it's always been about Stana, sorry Tamala]. Both options are ... well, calling them less than ideal would be generous.

Either there's quite a bit of story we're missing or ABC is trying to make the studio look like the bad guy. Probably both.

What's so hard to understand about the TPTB'S choices? The show was on the bubble. It was expensive, part of the reason it was on the bubble. The stars couldn't get along. Stana didn't want to be there, Nathan didn't want t work with her. The title is Castle. If you are going to keep one, you keep the one who is the NAME of the show and the bigger star. It's also not hard letting the one go who was preparing to leave the whole year anyway.

It's not really that interesting but fans think it is because no one wants to accept that Stana and Nathan hate each other. Even though it's the most obvious thing since George Michael being gay.

Edited August 20, 2016 by anoldfriend

[Thirteen]

7 hours ago, anoldfriend said:

What's so hard to understand about the TPTB'S choices? The show was on the bubble. It was expensive, part of the reason it was on the bubble. The stars couldn't get along. Stana didn't want to be there, Nathan didn't want t work with her. The title is Castle. If you are going to keep one, you keep the one who is the NAME of the show and the bigger star. It's also not hard letting the one go who was preparing to leave the whole year anyway.

It's not really that interesting but fans think it is because no one wants to accept that Stana and Nathan hate each other. Even though it's the most obvious thing since George Michael being gay.

And why didn't Stana want to be there? She hasn't booked anything solid since Sister Cities and that was a year ago.

[KaveDweller]

10 hours ago, anoldfriend said:

What's so hard to understand about the TPTB'S choices? The show was on the bubble. It was expensive, part of the reason it was on the bubble. The stars couldn't get along. Stana didn't want to be there, Nathan didn't want t work with her. The title is Castle. If you are going to keep one, you keep the one who is the NAME of the show and the bigger star. It's also not hard letting the one go who was preparing to leave the whole year anyway.

It's not really that interesting but fans think it is because no one wants to accept that Stana and Nathan hate each other. Even though it's the most obvious thing since George Michael being gay.

I actually think at this point most people accept they didn't get along, but no one knows WHY. So they come up with all these interesting complex theories.

It also seems weird that if Stana wanted to leave they wouldn't say that instead of letting the fired angle play out. I'm not saying I don't believe it, it just seems like such an awful PR decision for everyone involved.

Edited August 20, 2016 by KaveDweller

[break21]

3 hours ago, Thirteen said:

And why didn't Stana want to be there? She hasn't booked anything solid since Sister Cities and that was a year ago.

She wouldn't be the first one to misjudge her popularity and leave a show too early.

[chraume]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

I actually think at this point most people accept they didn't get along, but no one knows WHY. So they come up with all these interesting complex theories.

It also seems weird that if Stana wanted to leave they wouldn't say that instead of letting the fired angle play out. I'm not saying I don't believe it, it just seems like such an awful PR decision for everyone involved.

I dunno. My theory has long been that she left (and ABC Studios didn't put in too much effort to keeping her there, given the circumstances), just based on the way things played out. Tamala, who seems to have actually been fired, said that she hadn't expected it to leak until after decisions had been made about a renewal, and it started with Katic's statement alongside the "sources allege" thing about budgetary reasons, then ABC made a statement basically saying they would love to keep working with her, etc. etc. I don't know that ABC could feasibly have come out and said, "Well, that's a lie," without pointing to the conflicts and throwing an actress (from whom they were still earning money) under the bus/talking about the specifics of contract negotiations. So then the network, in turn, threw ABC Studios under the bus, which I'd guess has less banking on the importance of public impressions, given that majority has no idea which shows belong to the studio.

But honestly, that's just my impression, there are a million different theories out there and they all probably have some modicum of accuracy in them. If she did choose leave, I get why it would be this way -- celebrities, and particularly actresses, I've found, who choose to leave shows are often blamed for the fallout, and then only the most loyal of fans seems to follow them to their next project. Good for her. 

[Thirteen]

1 hour ago, break21 said:

She wouldn't be the first one to misjudge her popularity and leave a show too early.

I wouldn't call 8 seasons of Castle too early.

[KaveDweller]

42 minutes ago, chraume said:

I dunno. My theory has long been that she left (and ABC Studios didn't put in too much effort to keeping her there, given the circumstances), just based on the way things played out. Tamala, who seems to have actually been fired, said that she hadn't expected it to leak until after decisions had been made about a renewal, and it started with Katic's statement alongside the "sources allege" thing about budgetary reasons, then ABC made a statement basically saying they would love to keep working with her, etc. etc. I don't know that ABC could feasibly have come out and said, "Well, that's a lie," without pointing to the conflicts and throwing an actress (from whom they were still earning money) under the bus/talking about the specifics of contract negotiations. So then the network, in turn, threw ABC Studios under the bus, which I'd guess has less banking on the importance of public impressions, given that majority has no idea which shows belong to the studio.

But honestly, that's just my impression, there are a million different theories out there and they all probably have some modicum of accuracy in them. If she did choose leave, I get why it would be this way -- celebrities, and particularly actresses, I've found, who choose to leave shows are often blamed for the fallout, and then only the most loyal of fans seems to follow them to their next project. Good for her. 

The budget reference was always anonymous (in the press), so it seems like they could have contradicted that without outright calling Stana a liar. Unless there was bad blood between them. They just took so much heat for it, you'd think they'd at least leak an anonymous story about it. Maybe their PR group sucks?

If she did want to leave, ABC should have just announced S8 as the final season at the beginning. Then they could have focused on writing goods episodes for the end instead off setting up Castle PI. 

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Thirteen said:

And why didn't Stana want to be there? She hasn't booked anything solid since Sister Cities and that was a year ago.

Well, if I had to work with someone on a close basis day in and day out that I didn't like, I wouldn't be too jazzed to stick around. Money or no money.

[Thirteen]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, if I had to work with someone on a close basis day in and day out that I didn't like, I wouldn't be too jazzed to stick around. Money or no money.

That I didn't like and they didn't like me. It's more than probable that the toxic atmosphere on the set added to her desire to leave.

[chraume]

40 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

The budget reference was always anonymous (in the press), so it seems like they could have contradicted that without outright calling Stana a liar. Unless there was bad blood between them. They just took so much heat for it, you'd think they'd at least leak an anonymous story about it. Maybe their PR group sucks?

If she did want to leave, ABC should have just announced S8 as the final season at the beginning. Then they could have focused on writing goods episodes for the end instead off setting up Castle PI. 

Hmm, that's a good point. But even if they did contradict the budget thing, there still needs to be an explanation for why she's not coming back, and I'd imagine that they wouldn't want to touch that with a ten-foot pole. I also feel like, in the battle between an actress people like and the network, people are always going to believe the actress' side regardless of what else comes out, unless it comes from the actress herself (and, given the fact that SK has basically avoided interviews for well over a year and I'd imagine is trying to ignore the whole thing, I doubt that'll ever happen). But also, yeah, their PR team probably does suck, this whole thing was handled spectacularly poorly.

But yeah, I completely agree. Given the BTS stuff, the contract drama that went on to even get a S8, the declining ratings... I can't for the life of me figure out why Paul Lee didn't just call it when they announced renewal, or at least midseason when it was clear that nothing was improving. 

6 hours ago, Thirteen said:

And why didn't Stana want to be there? She hasn't booked anything solid since Sister Cities and that was a year ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she talk a little bit early this year about a cable show she was working on, that she'd possibly be starring in? And I think her production company also has a couple of movies in the works? Or, you know, maybe she just wanted a break from a hostile set and/or just wanted to have some free time to do some traveling and try other acting opportunities. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by chraume

[madmaverick]

24 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, if I had to work with someone on a close basis day in and day out that I didn't like, I wouldn't be too jazzed to stick around. Money or no money.

Especially if I had to play pretend lovers with a one time ex.  At least that's my theory.  Both could have walked away after S7 and yet both chose to stay, so either the money was too good and/or it wasn't that unbearable and/or they didn't have other professional options just as good.

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I actually think at this point most people accept they didn't get along, but no one knows WHY. So they come up with all these interesting complex theories.

I don't know that the theories are that interesting or complex, well, at least except for the batshit conspiracy theories from the crazy contingent. ;)  My theory as stated above is that they mixed the personal with the professional one time or more, and it messed things up after because of how it ended.  Do other people know the personal particulars of that?  Who knows.  It's sad in a way because they seemed very capable of genuinely getting along and liking each other in early years, and they could have maintained that friendship, but for whatever happened.   But everyone's human and we can't help how we feel.  It's a shame if the personal ended up affecting the professional.  No wonder people say it's usually a bad idea to mix the personal with the professional.  But it works for some, blows up for others.  I could be all wrong with my theory of course.

[break21]

3 hours ago, Thirteen said:

That I didn't like and they didn't like me. It's more than probable that the toxic atmosphere on the set added to her desire to leave.

But, they really didn't work that much together in the last season.  If they could put up with each other full-time for years it seems odd to leave when their time together was limited.

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, break21 said:

But, they really didn't work that much together in the last season.  If they could put up with each other full-time for years it seems odd to leave when their time together was limited.

Yeah, but less time or not, the show was 8 seasons in. And they worked together less because they didn't want to be near each other, hence the break up. And that was a Catch 22 since the audience hated it and wanted C/B back together.

And since Katic/Fillion likely didn't want togetherness, quitting was probably the only option left.

[break21]

Yeah, I can see that.  But I would put up with a lot for the salary those two were making.  At some point, I guess you get so rich money becomes less valuable (if that makes sense).

[TWP]

Quote

Both could have walked away after S7 and yet both chose to stay, so either the money was too good and/or it wasn't that unbearable and/or they didn't have other professional options just as good.

Or both refused to be the first to leave, and let the other have their own show. The studio then had to make the choice.

I think leaking the firing early was bad PR in Stana's camp. The leak was something the network had to clean up. The network probably didn't like that. The firing was supposed to be secret until the network decided what they'd do. Nathan has a new job at ABC (and yeah Two Guys and a Girl was a temp gig too.). They want to keep him on the snare. I could very well be wrong, but would not be surprised if Stana doesn't work at ABC for quite some time, if ever.

[BellyLaughter]

I still don't believe she was fired....she didn't want to be there ... that much was obvious. 

 

Why it became "the narrative" makes me agree with you, TWP, that it was an ill advised PR manoeuvre that's probably going to backfire...

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, TWP said:

Or both refused to be the first to leave, and let the other have their own show. The studio then had to make the choice.

I think leaking the firing early was bad PR in Stana's camp. The leak was something the network had to clean up. The network probably didn't like that. The firing was supposed to be secret until the network decided what they'd do. Nathan has a new job at ABC (and yeah Two Guys and a Girl was a temp gig too.). They want to keep him on the snare. I could very well be wrong, but would not be surprised if Stana doesn't work at ABC for quite some time, if ever.

Maybe she doesn't care about working at ABC and thought the extra press would help her elsewhere. Or she was pissed off about how it went down. Or maybe ABC did leak it to test the reaction. Who the hell knows.

[break21]

2 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

I still don't believe she was fired....she didn't want to be there ... that much was obvious. 

 

Why it became "the narrative" makes me agree with you, TWP, that it was an ill advised PR manoeuvre that's probably going to backfire...

I'm going to go against the ruling opinion. I don't' think they have gotten along since Season 5.  I think her Season 7 contract was a mess and ABC didn't want to deal with her anymore.   Just my opinion.  IMO - she got ahead of herself.  My opinion - not fact.

[madmaverick]

Anyone seen the bloopers or the locked room extra yet?

Read this fan version of a hypothetical S9 and I quite liked the story ideas.  Not that I think Castle writers would have gone for it in any case, in any season, because not.enough.Drama. ;)

Here's some Drama.  Well, I hope not, but it probably got the crazies going somewhere. ;)  I think it's weird to tweet anyone about what tabloids say, but hey she answered.  Maybe she was tired of people tweeting her tabloid rubbish and her costar being hated on.  People who hate Nathan also hate Molly so I'm sure she's not going to change their minds. ;)  I don't think Nathan's perfect and I'm not implying someone else is at fault, or that there are even sides to take, because no one knows anything (well, Molly probably does, and would know more than fans do), but her sympathies seem to lie with Nathan.
 

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Molly C. Quinn Retweeted William T. Garrett

Kind sir, @NathanFillion is a gem. He's sweet, funny, caring, loyal, nice, and genuine. Not a mean bone in him.

William T. Garrett @OneMugManTwo

@MollyQuinn93 was Nathan Fillion as mean to Stanic as the tabloids say.

 

[BlakesMomma]

9 hours ago, break21 said:

I'm going to go against the ruling opinion. I don't' think they have gotten along since Season 5.  I think her Season 7 contract was a mess and ABC didn't want to deal with her anymore.   Just my opinion.  IMO - she got ahead of herself.  My opinion - not fact.

I agree.  But I think you meant S8 contract?  

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, madmaverick said:

Anyone seen the bloopers or the locked room extra yet?

Read this fan version of a hypothetical S9 and I quite liked the story ideas.  Not that I think Castle writers would have gone for it in any case, in any season, because not.enough.Drama. ;)

Here's some Drama.  Well, I hope not, but it probably got the crazies going somewhere. ;)  I think it's weird to tweet anyone about what tabloids say, but hey she answered.  Maybe she was tired of people tweeting her tabloid rubbish and her costar being hated on.  People who hate Nathan also hate Molly so I'm sure she's not going to change their minds. ;)  I don't think Nathan's perfect and I'm not implying someone else is at fault, or that there are even sides to take, because no one knows anything (well, Molly probably does, and would know more than fans do), but her sympathies seem to lie with Nathan.
 

She doesn't actually deny the claim. She just talks about how great Nathan is (which is her usual style). I'm not saying Nathan's not a great guy, but I don't believe there's anyone who doesn't have a mean bone in their body. People are human, even really nice, sweet people can sometimes be mean. 

Molly has pretty clearly been on Nathan's side for several years now. She's the only one in the cast that I ever felt picked a side one way or the other. I'm not hating on her, I'm just saying she seems to worship the guy and would never say anything that puts him in a bad light. 

[madmaverick]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

She doesn't actually deny the claim. She just talks about how great Nathan is (which is her usual style). I'm not saying Nathan's not a great guy, but I don't believe there's anyone who doesn't have a mean bone in their body. People are human, even really nice, sweet people can sometimes be mean. 

Molly has pretty clearly been on Nathan's side for several years now. She's the only one in the cast that I ever felt picked a side one way or the other. I'm not hating on her, I'm just saying she seems to worship the guy and would never say anything that puts him in a bad light. 

Well, the question put to her was if Nathan was mean to Stana as the tabloids claimed.  And her response was that he didn't have a mean bone in his body.  I'm not saying Nathan's perfect either and it's pretty hard for anyone to not have a mean bone at all occasionally, but to me, she did answer the question.  My opinion is that two people not getting along for whatever personal reasons is a far cry from the wild allegations made in tabloids, which I don't believe deserve any credence, whether they related to Nathan or Stana.  Molly does clearly seem to be closer to Nathan, and that could simply because of they portrayed father/daughter and spent more time together. I don't think she's necessarily against Stana, just that she's more protective of Nathan because she's closer to him.  That's not a reason for some fans to hate on her (not referring to you Kave).  Unfairly, in my opinion.  We all have colleagues and friends that we are closer to than others.  But whatever people's opinions on Molly, I still say she's more qualified to make a passing judgment on a fellow costar, someone she actually knows personally and has worked with for years, than any fan judging from afar from the internet.  I wish fans would actually respect the opinions of people who actually know the actors, instead of bashing them when they don't agree with them.

S 8 bloopers.  Not too different from recent years.  Susan wins my MVP of the bloopers.   And who needs Esplanie when you can have Marsposito? :P

Edited August 23, 2016 by madmaverick

[anoldfriend]

15 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

I still don't believe she was fired....she didn't want to be there ... that much was obvious. 

 

Why it became "the narrative" makes me agree with you, TWP, that it was an ill advised PR manoeuvre that's probably going to backfire...

Now we're gettin' somewhere.

[madmaverick]

15 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

Now we're gettin' somewhere.

Tell us more. ;)

What I did notice was that Stana appeared to be putting out signals that she was less invested in the show (and its publicity) in S8 and 7.  Whether that was a tactic of playing hard to get with the studio or genuine disinterest is anyone's guess.  After the necessary/unnecessary(?) drama (?) of Stana's S7 contract negotiations which had already garnered press attention, I found it interesting that her PR thought it well advised for Stana to do that puff piece with Deadline clearing the air about said negotiations.  Was it damage control or was it a proactive PR move is again anyone's guess.  But from around the time of her relatively higher profile wedding announcements than I'd expected, and then to the Deadline interview at the beginning of S8, to the same Deadline reporter coming out with the story of her exit from the show, to the evolution of her instagram, it appeared that she was advised to take on a more aggressive PR approach, for whatever objectives.  Just my perception. 

Edited August 23, 2016 by madmaverick

[break21]

Watched the bloopers - they don't seem like they are ready to strangle each other.  I think a lot of the feud was exaggerated and it more about contractual issues.

[chraume]

46 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

Now we're gettin' somewhere.

Is it ill-advised, though? (That's a real question, not just me being snotty.) Seems like, if that was a PR move from SK's team, it's worked out for her and likely will continue to work for her. She leaves the show with her fans more or less intact, and Castle fans at least willing to follow her to her next project -- which, while I might be blowing online fandom vs. actual fans out of proportion, NF doesn't appear to have done. She doesn't seem to have a real interest in staying on network TV for the time being, so even if ABC's pissed off, there are still lots of avenues and she seems to have good connections. 

I mean, if this is a PR manoeuvre, it seems kind of genius to me, but I don't know much about PR so I'm sure I'm missing something huge. Unless, I guess, some sort of credible source came out to clear the air and tell the actual story, I don't know. 

37 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

Tell us more. ;)What I did notice was that Stana appeared to be putting out signals that she was less invested in the show (and its publicity) in S8 and 7.  Whether that was a tactic of playing hard to get with the studio or genuine disinterest is anyone's guess.  After the necessary/unnecessary(?) drama (?) of Stana's S7 contract negotiations which had already garnered press attention, I found it interesting that her PR thought it well advised for Stana to do that puff piece with Deadline clearing the air about said negotiations.  Was it damage control or was it a proactive PR move is again anyone's guess.  But from around the time of her relatively higher profile wedding announcements than I'd expected, and then to the Deadline interview at the beginning of S8, to the same Deadline reporter coming out with the story of her exit from the show, to the evolution of her instagram, it appeared that she was advised to take on a more aggressive PR approach, for whatever objectives.  Just my perception. 

That's actually what initially gave me the impression that SK was maybe looking to leave. Her promo this year was all centred around her own image, vs. its ties to Castle. I'd heard that she purged a huge portion of her pre-2015 tweets, plus the Instagram stuff you mentioned, the lack of interviews, livetweeting, etc. Nothing wrong with doing PR for yourself, of course, especially as I'd assume a lot of actors struggle with being known for just one role. But it really seemed to me as though she was setting herself up for a post-Castle life (of course, her fans have also interpreted that as her general dislike of the season/feelings about being 'pushed out,' so who knows?) 

[KaveDweller]

She doesn't seem to have a real interest in staying on network TV for the time being, so even if ABC's pissed off, there are still lots of avenues and she seems to have good connections.

I agree she doesn't want to stay on network TV, but I've always been taught to never trash a former boss public ally or intentionally piss them off.  No matter how terrible they to you.  I would think that's also true in Hollywood. But, lots of people don't follow this rule and are successful. Time will tell.