Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[Sara2009]

I try to keep in mind the environment people are in when making judgments. I'm not a Stana fan, but since other actors take time off, why shouldn't she?

[Chado]

I try to keep in mind the environment people are in when making judgments. I'm not a Stana fan, but since other actors take time off, why shouldn't she?

I think if you're the lead of a show, you have the responsibility to be available for every episode if/when required. I'm well aware how draining being involved in a TV series is, but they are paid extremely well for their time. This isn't me just talking about SK either, it's my view in general.

 

As for Castle specifically, If you are of the belief that these two leads are already only filming 1-2 days together due to personal conflicts, then they must already be getting significant time off each week. The logic being that if 1 of them is filming, the other typically isn't their = individual time off.

 

Clearly SK negotiated it into her contract, so at the end of the day, it is what it is........but I feel the demands of both can become quite unreasonable (the idea that they won't film more than 2 days together for example) and have a noticeable effect on the TV show as a whole.

 

It's why I wish that if it is real (them not liking each other), they just quit the show, let it end. It's not fair to the audience or the showrunners (assuming they are put in this awful position) to have to deal with it.

 

Either way, the end result is that we get an episode that is the definition of a throwaway episode. It doesn't even mean anything, hard to get excited for it.

[verdana]

This upcoming episode will give everyone the chance to see if they can imagine watching a future Castle without Beckett. I've always said I'd quit watching if either one of them left the show but I'm going to be intrigued by the reactions to this episode from those who are more open minded to the idea of watching Castle flying solo getting into various scrapes investigating with his buddies.

As the separation issue looks as if it will be put almost completely on the back burner due to Katic's absence, it might in an odd way prove easier for me to disengage and enjoy it.

Edited November 4, 2015 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

That was my feeling. That she said she was taking time off, so they wrote the episode around her, and not the other way around. There are two leads, and I just don't see them telling her they were not going to do an episode with her, so she decided to take an exotic vacation. 

 

Also, yes, I understood that the actors negotiated more time off. I don't know if I've ever heard of this in terms of two lead characters, but I guess when you have a long-running successful show, you feel like you can start negotiating this stuff. 

 

Like I said, I have a different kind of work ethic. There is a natural break where they are off for a long enough time to take exotic vacations. Why they have to be taken in the middle of an actual season, is just a level of wealth and entitlement I don't understand.

 

But I do understand that when there is this sort of behavior, and I don't just mean from Stana, that there will be speculation the actors no longer care about the show all that much and may be begging to be killed off.

Stana was filming other things most of the hiatus, so it makes sense that if she wanted a vacation she'd have to work it into her Castle filming. We don't know if she said she wanted to miss an episode or if she just said a number of days she needed. I think Halwideman had posted she had to be flexible about exactly when she took it....they could probably have split her time off across the end of one episode and beginning of the next, but chose to do this instead for whatever reason.

I certainly wish I could get away with that kind of thing, but in terms of actor demands I've heard about, time off is pretty minor.

Now IF the rumors about refusing to work together is true that's a whole other issue. But that's all speculation.

[TWP]

This upcoming episode will give everyone the chance to see if they can imagine watching a future Castle without Beckett. I've always said I'd quit watching if either one of them left the show but I'm going to be intrigued by the reactions to this episode from those who are more open minded to the idea of watching Castle flying solo getting into various scrapes investigating with his buddies.

As the separation issue looks as if it will be put almost completely on the back burner due to Katic's absence, it might in an odd way prove easier for me to disengage and enjoy it.

 

I've always said that I want to move on from this season of Castle WITH Beckett, but I haven't done so yet. (I admit to my addiction, so I've already achieved my first step in curing it, ha.  Hopefully the 2 month hiatus will grant me the next step, a cold turkey quit.).  If the product they produce in some future season without one or the other of the cast is good I would keep watching.  TV for me is a vast wasteland of nothingness, with a few dying cactii (e.g Castle).  If they produce a show I can tolerate, they have me.

 

Yes, I'm with you about back burner.  The only thing I absolutely hate about the show right now is the constant reminder of how miserable Castle and Beckett are.  If I can come here and find out where those scenes are and fast-forward, I can pretend they don't exist.  The hilarious Beckett googly eyes are enough to remind me that they're still a couple.

 

The only thing the cast has a responsibility to is to honor the commitments set out in their contracts.  If they produce a non-watchable product as a result, we have the right to vote with our feet.  To my way of thinking, it's not up to us to tell them if their actions are right or wrong otherwise.  The fans don't own them, just because we watch their show ;-).

[Thak]

 

Stana was filming other things most of the hiatus, so it makes sense that if she wanted a vacation she'd have to work it into her Castle filming. We don't know if she said she wanted to miss an episode or if she just said a number of days she needed. I think Halwideman had posted she had to be flexible about exactly when she took it....they could probably have split her time off across the end of one episode and beginning of the next, but chose to do this instead for whatever reason.

 

I remember reading Halwideman's comment and wondered if it was a belated honeymoon for her.

 

 

I certainly wish I could get away with that kind of thing, but in terms of actor demands I've heard about, time off is pretty minor.

 

Exactly.  Certainly doesn't call into question an actor's work ethic. 

 

 

I'm not a Stana fan, but since other actors take time off, why shouldn't she?

 

I'm not a Nathan fan, but since he walks off set for time off, can't she at least negotiate in good faith to have her time off?

 

 

 

 

This upcoming episode will give everyone the chance to see if they can imagine watching a future Castle without Beckett.

 

I suspect this as well.  I have wondered for awhile now if Stana signed back on because of how upset fans got at the prospect of no Beckett for season 8.  If the network was interested in keeping the "brand" going they would want the transition to go as smoothly as possible, so instead of losing Beckett cold turkey, they will slowly transition the show while testing the waters. That's the best both sides can do if Stana wants to move on.

[GeorgieNY]

I think I made it clear I was not just talking about Stana. I think most actors are spoiled brats. There are some who are known for an amazing work ethic. They get there on time. They don't keep people waiting. They're in the trenches. Those are the actors I like to follow. Not ones who act like children. 

 

For me, if I'm given months off, and I choose to work on other projects during that time off, that's my decision, If I say that after I voluntarily chose to work on my vacation, so now I want to take my vacation during my work time, rather than waiting for the time when I once again have months off, then again, personal opinion, but that's not my kind of work ethic.

 

Also my personal opinion, but I believe this kind of behavior shows that there isn't the same level of commitment to the show. Most working actors wouldn't take the chance to do stuff like this: make ridiculous demands as to how many days they're willing to work so they either don't have to see each other or even if it's just like, "This ACTING thing is so HARD that I need the time to go on vacation!"  

 

So, yeah, I can totally believe that Stana would be asking to be killed off at this point. And Nathan would be insisting it's his last season. As verdana said, when it gets to this point, and the quality of the show is affected, its time to pull the plug. Otherwise you go out with a whimper.

I just want to point out how difficult it (usually) is for an actor to get to this stage of their career-where they have the power to get extra time off. Many years of poverty, awful rejection, etc. I don't begrudge the extra time off, having worked in the industry for a long time. I believe the time off improves the quality of the time spent on set. I'm not saying some actors are not total brats and a*^holes- many are. Being late to set etc is inexcusable (I once stood-in on a film for months and one of the lead actors was chronically very late, frustrating everyone), but negotiating for what you want after many years is fine with me- the network could have said no.

[Thak]

 

There are some who are known for an amazing work ethic. They get there on time. They don't keep people waiting. They're in the trenches. Those are the actors I like to follow.

 

One of the many reasons I'm a fan of Stana Katic.

 

 

For me, if I'm given months off, and I choose to work on other projects during that time off, that's my decision, If I say that after I voluntarily chose to work on my vacation, so now I want to take my vacation during my work time, rather than waiting for the time when I once again have months off, then again, personal opinion, but that's not my kind of work ethic.

 

Since everyone here is just speculating, what if she was planning on leaving, planned her wedding, booked projects, then the fan outcry happened so she decided together with the network that she would come back to help transition the show? If true, classy move.

 

ETA .  Here's another one, the actor's didn't know if the show was even going to be renewed or not, so she went out and took advantage of what life and career was offering her.  Can you blame a person for that?

Edited November 4, 2015 by Thak

[S55]

Since everyone here is just speculating, what if she was planning on leaving, planned her wedding, booked projects, then the fan outcry happened so she decided together with the network that she would come back to help transition the show? 

 

Because we had reliable information shared here last spring which alluded to the fact that Stana planned to re-sign for another season once her terms were agreed upon. Fans seem to think they had a say in her decision, but I very seriously doubt that was a factor for her. 

[Guest]

Let's try to get back to speculating on the show and less on the actor's contract negotiations and behind the scenes tension.  Once you've made your point, it would be much appreciated if you could move on instead of reiterating it repeatedly.

 

Thank you!

[Thak]

 

Because we had reliable information shared here last spring which alluded to the fact that Stana planned to re-sign for another season once her terms were agreed upon. Fans seem to think they had a say in her decision, but I very seriously doubt that was a factor for her.

 

See my ETA.

 

Again, you can only re-sign on to a show that still exists.  Not knowing about renewal and their contracts being fulfilled, everyone was well within their rights to look out for their own careers in case they were out of work on Castle, just like the network looks out for itself.  The show got renewed and Stana came back.

[CastleSeason8]

NF wants Castle to go out in a hail of bullets, SK wants to be killed off - what does this do to DVD sales, reruns, etc., and does ABC or whomever even think about that before signing off on that kind of end? It would certainly change my viewing of past episodes - just like this stupid split has

[Chado]

NF wants Castle to go out in a hail of bullets, SK wants to be killed off - what does this do to DVD sales, reruns, etc., and does ABC or whomever even think about that before signing off on that kind of end? It would certainly change my viewing of past episodes - just like this stupid split has

I don't get why anybody would truly believe the show would continue without both of them, why the show would kill off one of them. The ratings are terrible, ABC knows it's dying, removing 1 of the leads isn't going to change anything.

 

I'd be more worried about the journey than the destination. We'll get the 'happy' ending for Caskett, it's just whether you care about this break up and whatever else they decide to throw at us.

[pepper]

Not for the first time, glad the actors are not writers. What's happening is bad enough without death and grief - except for the lost and lamented show I used to love.

[Thak]

 

Ugh. Can you imagine? Let's speculate on this.

 

Beckett gets killed off.

 

Castle goes into a downward spiral. Certainly fun, lighthearted episodes wouldn't happen for quite some time, so what we'd have is a depressed Castle, with everyone rallying around him.

 

THEN, when that's all done, they have to try and dust off some early season scripts when Castle was a dashing ladies' man who had a little bit of swagger before they turned him into Sticky Fingers Pathetic McBumbler who has to go begging his wife for a scrap of her love and attention.

 

You never know.  I would wish them well in their attempt, I wouldn't watch, but maybe they would get an audience.  I'd speculate the dashing ladies man would be all tell no show, and if they did show, it would consist of barely kissing, very little touching, you would just imagine what that ladies man was doing with all his conquests.  I doubt the Sticky Fingers Pathetic McBumbler would cease either, it seems to be a favorite part of this current rendition of the character,  part of the new DNA.

 

However, I feel the current show needs to be put out to pasture.

 

If the showrunners are not killing off a lead then perhaps divorce?  And I guess if this is the last season with no spin off then maybe a happily ever after in the last few episodes?

[Thirteen]

Halwideman said that Stana wanted two weeks off, she had one off for Sister Cities and another one for later but she didn't get to pick the episode or the timing, she had to be flexible, Nathan wanted a lighter work week. Hal didn't say anything about Stana missing an episode and whatever they needed her for would be inserted while filming the next episode. This is nothing that we haven't seen before. In season 6, while Stana was on set for In The Belly of The Beast, Nathan jetted off to an exotic location, New Zealand, with his girlfriend of the time and was later inserted in the episode. The truth is actors negotiate time off all the time. If after eight seasons, Stana got the same perks as Nathan, I'd say congrats to her.

[Chado]

Does anybody know why he just up and deleted all his posts/left? The timing of it made me curious

Edited November 4, 2015 by Chado

[TWP]

Ooooh, Hawley came out with some more of his "eFf-ed Up Nonsense (aka "fun") again.

 

Soo, apparently Castle, Comicon guest and general pop culturally aware person that he is, is still guessing and hasn't figured out his Spiderman caricature wife's "I have to leave you to protect you" trope. He needs the help of a jerk named Slaughter to maybe clue in.  Yawn.

 

Now I've figured out how Castle will end. Despite the pleadings of his fellow characters, Rick will decide to visit a chain saw and hockey mask store in the middle of the night when a serial killer named "Jason" is on the loose.  And his last words before he leaves for his little adventure will be, you guessed it!, "Watch this!?"

 

Captain Obvious is not so obvious to our dear Mr. Castle.

 

The unintentional comedy writes itself.

[Julia]

Soo, apparently Castle, Comicon guest and general pop culturally aware person that he is, is still guessing and hasn't figured out his Spiderman caricature wife's "I have to leave you to protect you" trope. He needs the help of a jerk named Slaughter to maybe clue in.  Yawn.

 

Oh, lord have mercy. 

 

Yes. Because when I think enlightened social awareness, I pretty much see Adam Baldwin. Whose thuggish caricature of a character apparently understands humans better than Richard Castle does.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Julia

[BellyLaughter]

But it's funny.....right? Caveman douchebag give relationship advice....what could go wrong? It's comedy gold!!!

[KaveDweller]

Soo, apparently Castle, Comicon guest and general pop culturally aware person that he is, is still guessing and hasn't figured out his Spiderman caricature wife's "I have to leave you to protect you" trope. He needs the help of a jerk named Slaughter to maybe clue in.  Yawn.

 

What gets me annoyed is that Castle did figure out what was going on in XX.  When Beckett said she was leaving he immediately asked if it was about Bracken and the AG folks getting killed.  He even mentioned Bracken's talk about her obsession. And I don't think Beckett denied any of those things.  Then suddenly he's all "gosh, why could she suddenly need space? Women are confusing."

 

I mean, one minute Beckett is swooning over the ugly bracelet he gave her and complaining about him not working with her. Then a bunch of people get killed and Beckett decides she needs to leave him. A five-year-old could see the connection.

 

But that article does make me think the fall finale is when Castle finds out what's going on. I did laugh at the part where Hawley said Beckett got the rest of her stuff from the apartment.....that bag Beckett had would only fit like 10% of her wardrobe.  Not counting shoes and coats.  If they want us to think she moved everything out they should have given her a different bag. Details matter.

[verdana]

I wish Hawley would put a sock in it, nothing he's given me so far has been remotely "fun" it's been mostly frustrating, crass and dumb. Whatever he's consuming to have this much fun I need to start taking some of it.   Slaughter is no friend of Castle's, last time they met he punched him hard in the gut and made sexual references about his (now) wife and daughter, they're forcing a friendship there that doesn't exist. 

 

It appears that Castle is still confused to what's wrong with Kate but all is not lost!  Douchebag Slaughter will somehow come to the rescue and clue him in but not quite enough for Castle to figure out the bleeding obvious which as KaveDweller points out, he's already guessed. 

 

Details matter.

Not on this show they don't. 

 

For me it's simple, all he needs to do is ask her what's going on, the whole thing is so stupid, his so called "frustration" could be resolved in one conversation with his wife where he doesn't back down, forgets about sniffing her shirt to tell him something he should already know and makes her face up to the situation she's got them both into but of course we can't have them talking to each other like mature grown ups, it wouldn't be fun. Sigh. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by verdana

[VinceW]

TVGuide CHEERS & JEERS section by Damian Holbrook @damianholbrook

 

JEERS TO CASTLE "for dragging out Rick and Beckett's separation. After fans waited forever for these two to get together, they pull this breakup crap for drama's sake? Please. Even Castle(Nathan Fillion, above, with Stana Katic) could have come up with a better story line".

(SK - yes; NF - doubtful).

[KaveDweller]

Does anybody know why he just up and deleted all his posts/left? The timing of it made me curious

 

I don't know why, but I thought it was interesting because it was right after he/she posted about Stana had negotiated time off in her contract. Then a few days later Ausiello posted a "scoop" in his column with that same info about Stana and how ABC had refused to comment when he called. So I wondered if Hal thought there was a connection and didn't want to get outed as a leak.  That's all speculation on my part though. But that's the only reason I can think of for deleting your whole profile (other than another poster really pissing you off, but that didn't seem to happen right before Hal disappeared).

[CastleSeason8]

Cheers to Damien.

I really need to stop caring about/reading about/hoping to watch again/thinking about this show.

[371012]

I miss Hal.  And I always thought Hal was she, not he, FWIW (not much).

[CastleSeason8]

Did Hal say split would last all season? Dont recall - there has been so much said..

[BellyLaughter]

Hal never admitted to knowing how long the arc would play out - just how it starts

[FlickerToAFlame]

@KrisPolaha: Looking very smiley on the set of #Castle with @ClareGrant @NathanFillion @Stana_Katic and Christopher B. Duncan https://t.co/AMPrqbkM7m

[turnitwayup]

Looks like they convinced Christopher to get a twitter account lol.

 

 

 

Stana_Katic: If you've got a spare moment, please follow @TheChrisBDuncan
Great man & actor and a wonderful dancer.

 

Clare must not be very memorable to me since I don't even remember her from Con Man, Husbands or any other project listed on her imdb.

[madmaverick]

TVGuide CHEERS & JEERS section by Damian Holbrook @damianholbrook

 

JEERS TO CASTLE "for dragging out Rick and Beckett's separation. After fans waited forever for these two to get together, they pull this breakup crap for drama's sake? Please. Even Castle(Nathan Fillion, above, with Stana Katic) could have come up with a better story line".

(SK - yes; NF - doubtful).

Damien was talking about Castle, the character, not either of the actors.  There seems to be a lot of confusion between the characters and the actors, and the actors and the writers' roles going around.

 

It's just one photo from a guest star of course (in a long line of guest stars who have praised the on set atmosphere), but everyone seems to be having a good time on set.  Naturally, those positive vibes will be ignored in favour of negative bts rumours by those desperate to believe the latter are actually driving the storyline this season.

[madmaverick]

I'm beginning to feel like Hal.  No, I have no insider information, but I do feel like I'm on my own private island as one of the few on this board still finding things to enjoy on the show this season.  (Waving Hi to Hal at your villa on the island if you're still lurking! :P)  It does feel a bit strange because I have been critical of the show in the past, and there are definitely still key things I am critical of this season, but perhaps I'm willing to wait out the story and am more appreciative of the things that I perceive to be done better under the new regime.  

 

Completely contrived separation aside, I think the writing has generally improved in terms of dialogue and such.  There's been much less of the mind numbingly boring exposition that made me tune out of many an episode characterised in the Marlowe period.  Caskett still have good chemistry, even if the circumstances they are in are questionable.  People are entitled to feel what they feel, but perhaps the relentless negativity both about the show and bts rumors made this a less fun place for Hal, as it's becoming the case for me.  I really do wonder why people don't just switch the channel and disengage from discussion boards entirely if they dislike a show to such an extent instead of expending so much energy on something they dislike.  It's what I'd do.  Genuinely wondering, not snarking.  I don't see the fun in engaging in something just to hate on it.  But most of these boards seem to be hating and snarking on shows, so perhaps I'm in the minority on that.

 

I don't begrudge the actors taking time off if they can negotiate it; I'd probably do the same if I were in their position.  But it would be nice if people could stop applying double standards as per their preferences about what the actors have been able to negotiate.  First of all, no one knows the details for sure about their contracts, past or present.  And no one knows the details about the course of negotiations between the actors and the network.  I remember Nathan being hammered endlessly in some fandom quarters for a one day strike seasons ago to negotiate better working hours.  No one knew the hours they were subjected to in the first place, no one knew what talks had taken place with the network prior to resorting to a strike, which one would imagine would be the last resort.  Some people were quick to assume the better hours were just for himself, but as can be clearly seen presently, the better hours are benefiting both leads and is something that both sought.  Some people, likely the same people, were quick to jump on him for allegedly not helping Stana negotiate for equal pay.  Hal basically cleared it up by saying that was not the issue with Stana's negotiations at all.

 

And I personally think it's incredibly naive to think Stana, or any actor, signed a contract for the fans.  That may be the funniest reason I've heard for a contract signing.  I don't see what's so bad if the truth is everyone signed for the money and the stability and not the art (on a network procedural! c'mon.).   Actors have to make a livelihood after all. 

 

I don't know where that 2 day working together rumor came from, nor do I really care, but people should have a care before stating it as actual fact.  I don't know why people are so quick to believe it's the actors driving the story whereas in my opinion, it's just as likely, if not more so, it's the writers driving the story with their actual writing.  I watch Madam Secretary and the married couple on that show, who also exhibit good chemistry and are even supposedly dating in real life, and they share about the same amount of screen time Caskett currently do.  I actually feel that Caskett are sharing a fair amount of screentime together despite the separation arc and the actors are still acting well together.  I get that people don't like the Caskett separation and prefer for the two of them to be in 90% of the scenes together, but that's not going to happen when they are trying to make the show more of an ensemble show.

 

Henry has been putting his hands on Bess a lot more in home life scenes this season while hiding those moments from the kids which I doubt is part of the script. He does not have a no-shirt clause as well in bedroom scenes.

 

The married couple on MS have a natural chemistry as well but I don't recall them actually getting very naked or hot and sweaty much.  It's fade to black stuff.  I don't know if Nathan has a no shirt clause in his contract or not, but I do remember some fans being rather mean and nasty about how he was never going to show his chest because of his weight gain back in S4 so we were never going to see them naked the morning after Always.  And then, guess what?  We did see his chest in 501.  (Even if we didn't get the naked frolicking that I'd hoped but that was the beginning of kisses interruptus and I chalk that up to Marlowe, completely.)  My point is, quite a few of the things that fans so strongly believe in the past based on rumour or their own opinions have turned out to be false.  I don't know when we'll next see a make out scene like in 703 but I believe if they write it, they'll act it and I didn't find anything lacking the last time around.  But who knows, maybe people will be obsessing over body doubles and hand doubles the next time we get an intimate scene between them.

Edited November 5, 2015 by madmaverick

[madmaverick]

Marlowe was annoying in most of his interviews but I was never that much bothered about what he said in them.  Same goes for Hawley.  So what if it's their poor way of damage control?  At the end of the day, I judge by what I see on screen.  And yes, I see that most people here are unhappy with what they see on screen.  I have my complaints, but still find things to enjoy.  Compared to some seasons under Marlowe, I'm more engaged.

 

What I take issue with is the parading of rumor as fact.  Some people seem to believe that the leads allegedly not getting along is the cause of all that is wrong with the show this season, and treat that as immutable fact.  (But haven't they supposedly not gotten along for ages so I don't see how their personal relationship, whatever it is, would affect the show any more this season.  To be clear, basically everything about their personal and working relationship is pure speculation.)  Anything bts is given a negative slant and subjected to conspiracy theories wherever possible; anything positive from guest stars or regular cast is discounted.  People have picked their sides and won't be swayed by anything on screen and off.  Taking a more critical line with anything unsubstantiated would be a more beneficial approach in my opinion.  But the fandom at large doesn't seem to love critical thinking or logic much.  Not salacious enough.  

[verdana]

@KrisPolaha: Looking very smiley on the set of #Castle with @ClareGrant @NathanFillion @Stana_Katic and Christopher B. Duncan https://t.co/AMPrqbkM7m

Nice picture, Nathan looks good there, like the fact that for once he's not wearing a blue button down.  I'm not sure where they are but I wouldn't mind the odd court room scene between his guy and Beckett, that would be good but I'm guessing that's not a direction they'll go in.  Having a new set would increase costs and they seem to prefer keeping Beckett precinct based when she's not at crime scenes. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by verdana

[metaphor]

Well, they're definitely filming in a courtroom for this episode, at least. 

[westwingfan]

Well, they're definitely filming in a courtroom for this episode, at least. 

Looks like they returned to Riverfront Stages, which they used quite a bit in S6 for the DC arc and the courtroom in LFLD.

 

http://riverfrontstages.com/

 

The first image of a courtroom looks like the one in the BTS pic.

Edited November 5, 2015 by westwingfan

[verdana]

I miss the prophet of doom or prince of darkness as I know her (he was a she to the best of my knowledge!).
 
Chado. I suspect she disappeared either for the reason madmaverick gave and/or because they were getting angsty about their insider news (or gossip depending on how you wish to view this sort of thing) being taken elsewhere and discussed. 
 
Hal confirmed they wouldn't get together in Mr and Mrs Castle and they had no idea how long the separation arc lasted for at that stage. I'm still working from the position that best case scenario they'll drag the physical separation out until the mid way point then have a two parter that resolves their physical separation if not the actual case. My less hopeful and cynical side tells me that if ratings remain stable and the other new ABC shows hit the skids they'll be told (or assume) they'll get a S9, Katic and Fillion will be on board and they'll drag the separation out until the end of the season in some guise or another.

Edited November 5, 2015 by verdana

[westwingfan]

I'm beginning to feel like Hal.  No, I have no insider information, but I do feel like I'm on my own private island as one of the few on this board still finding things to enjoy on the show this season.  (Waving Hi to Hal at your villa on the island if you're still lurking! :P)  It does feel a bit strange because I have been critical of the show in the past, and there are definitely still key things I am critical of this season, but perhaps I'm willing to wait out the story and am more appreciative of the things that I perceive to be done better under the new regime.  

 

Completely contrived separation aside, I think the writing has generally improved in terms of dialogue and such.  There's been much less of the mind numbingly boring exposition that made me tune out of many an episode characterised in the Marlowe period.  Caskett still have good chemistry, even if the circumstances they are in are questionable.  People are entitled to feel what they feel, but perhaps the relentless negativity both about the show and bts rumors made this a less fun place for Hal, as it's becoming the case for me.  I really do wonder why people don't just switch the channel and disengage from discussion boards entirely if they dislike a show to such an extent instead of expending so much energy on something they dislike.  It's what I'd do.  Genuinely wondering, not snarking.  I don't see the fun in engaging in something just to hate on it.  But most of these boards seem to be hating and snarking on shows, so perhaps I'm in the minority on that.

 

If you take out the break up I would agree that the episodes are much more interesting than many from the past two seasons but I'm finding that storyline is blighting my enjoyment of everything else, and will continue to do so until it is resolved. I've watched 151 episodes, and there are only nine of those that I won't watch again, so I haven't considered giving up just yet because of the last three, but as it stands I don't feel inclined to rewatch any of S8, I'm not sure when I'll sadly say enough is enough but I'm unlikely to watch Cool Boys at all, I'll just catch Stana's scene, if there is one, on youtube.

[verdana]

Sticky Fingers Pathetic McBumbler

 

Heh,  funny but very sad at the same time he's been reduced to this for some of us.

 

Beckett gets killed off.

Castle goes into a downward spiral. Certainly fun, lighthearted episodes wouldn't happen for quite some time, so what we'd have is a depressed Castle, with everyone rallying around him.

 

 

Oooh I'm trying to put my showrunner hat on here, if Stana left and ABC wanted to continue what would I do?  Worst option divorce, that's putting a pin in the whole "epic" love story and would be cruel and the biggest "fuck you" to the fans. If they can't get Stana back for any special guest star appearances then killing her off is the only other option.  The problem with that of course is as you say Castle become the grieving widower but then if Hawley is still at the helm they'll probably go with the same pattern as the separation, "fun" moments and then a quick "oh my God I just remembered my wife is dead" *sad face* from Castle and everyone for a few seconds then back to the comedy capers we go. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by verdana

[westwingfan]

I miss the prophet of doom or prince of darkness as I know her (he was a she to the best of my knowledge!).

 

Chado. I suspect she disappeared either for the reason madmaverick gave and/or because they were getting angsty about their insider news (or gossip depending on how you wish to view this sort of thing) being taken elsewhere and discussed. 

 

 

I don't understand this, I wasn't aware there were copywrite restrictions on things posted on this site, once something is out there it's out there and gets regurgitated on twitter and FB and other boards. People can read and anything on this topic after the interest the blind item generated was bound to get seized upon. Several guests have mentioned how they are obviously told in no uncertain terms to keep quiet about stuff so maybe the show's enforcer had a word.

[Chado]

@madmaverick

 

I don't think anybody would disagree with you when you say that the writing is better, it's less 'boring', the COTWs are typically stronger. The problem is that the Caskett separation is a huge part of this season. The 'I will win her back' is thrown at us almost every episode up until this point. They have also intentionally made Castle look slow/stupid because they have to, to drag on this part of their separation. That's without even going into how they've made Beckett's rationale for leaving/keeping Castle in the dark extremely weak, and unrealistic. All of this removes enjoyment from each episode, it's hard to ignore.

 

I understand that each individual has a different level of tolerance to be able to handwave or ignore that part of the show, but Caskett has always been the most important part of the show to me. There are 10+ shows I consider that do COTW better than Castle, so that isn't why I'm watching Castle. I'm watching it for the Castle and Beckett interaction, and when you view their break up as insulting/flimsy, it makes it difficult to enjoy.

 

As for the whole idea of 'then why do you watch it?', because some of us have been watching for almost 8 years now? We want to see the ending of their relationship. All that can be done is to continue to be frustrated and hope that it changes....

[verdana]

Hey thanks for the pictures! That's great, here's hoping it's not just a blink and you'll miss it scene.

Going back to that TV line interview for a second reading Hawley's comments on the shirt sniffing exchange if you're having to explain to your audience about that scene at the end and what it means to the characters then in my mind you didn't do a very good job a writer. 

[westwingfan]

Heh,  funny but very sad at the same time he's been reduced to this for some of us.

 

 

Oooh I'm trying to put my showrunner hat on here, if Stana left and ABC wanted to continue what would I do?  Worst option divorce, that's putting a pin in the whole "epic" love story and would be cruel and the biggest "fuck you" to the fans. If they can't get Stana back for any special guest star appearances then killing her off is the only other option.  The problem with that of course is as you say Castle become the grieving widower but then if Hawley is still at the helm they'll probably go with the same pattern as the separation, "fun" moments and then a quick "oh my God I just remembered my wife is dead" *sad face* from Castle and everyone for a few seconds then back to the comedy capers we go. 

The break up is impacting on the "fun" episodes enough as it is for a lot of people so going the extra mile to end the marriage or kill off Beckett would seem a death knell. They could turn her into a "Colombo" wife where she gets mentioned all the time but you never see her. LOL

[Nadine]

I don't understand this, I wasn't aware there were copywrite restrictions on things posted on this site, once something is out there it's out there and gets regurgitated on twitter and FB and other boards. People can read and anything on this topic after the interest the blind item generated was bound to get seized upon. Several guests have mentioned how they are obviously told in no uncertain terms to keep quiet about stuff so maybe the show's enforcer had a word.

 

I'm no means Hal. And I'll step out of lurking to say this. But it does get a bit tiresome sometimes to have information taken to other places on the Internet without credit. That's when it starts to breach the IP laws...

[westwingfan]

How dare you insult Hawley and his having to explain shirt-sniffing scenes. It's brilliant and fun! You take that back! Shirt sniffing is the new way of letting your significant other know how truly in love you are with them. Everyone knows that!

 

The nose knows! 

 

That's the theme for the season!

I smell a rat LOL

[verdana]

If you take out the break up I would agree that the episodes are much more interesting than many from the past two seasons but I'm finding that storyline is blighting my enjoyment of everything else, and will continue to do so until it is resolved. I've watched 151 episodes, and there are only nine of those that I won't watch again, so I haven't considered giving up just yet because of the last three, but as it stands I don't feel inclined to rewatch any of S8, I'm not sure when I'll sadly say enough is enough but I'm unlikely to watch Cool Boys at all, I'll just catch Stana's scene, if there is one, on youtube.

Yeah same here, it upsets me being this down on the show every week hating the storyline and I am sorry if that adds to the negative atmosphere and is a downer for others but I can't sit back and enjoy the other more positive changes that have been made when there's this separation casting a pall over everything they do.   I've had one quick re-watch of every episode just to make sure I didn't miss anything out of sheer habit but I don't plan to watch any of these separation episodes ever again, there's nothing that would make me want to go back and revisit this story.   

 

The most frustrating thing is if they took out the separation bit out of the equation they'd be fine and they could still keep the new things they've brought in to freshen things up, that's what's so annoying about this. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by verdana

[westwingfan]

I'm no means Hal. And I'll step out of lurking to say this. But it does get a bit tiresome sometimes to have information taken to other places on the Internet without credit. That's when it starts to breach the IP laws...

I take your point and find it really annoying when BTS pics are posted on line with no providence and it makes it look like they are current. I've seen one twitterer who carefully edits out the actual selfie taker in pics of Nathan and Stana to make it look like the pic is their own.

I thought I did see Hal credited on another board but I can't swear to it.

Yeah same here, it upsets me being this down on the show every week hating the storyline and I am sorry if that adds to the negative atmosphere and is a downer for others but I can't sit back and enjoy the other more positive changes that have been made when there's this separation casting a pall over everything they do.   I've had one quick re-watch of every episode just to make sure I didn't miss anything out of sheer habit but I don't plan to watch any of these separation episodes ever again, there's nothing that would make me want to go back and revisit this story.   

 

The most frustrating thing is if they took out the separation bit out of the equation they'd be fine and they could still keep the new things they've brought in to freshen things up, that's what's so annoying about this. 

Exactly, the mood on the boards would probably be a lot more positive as an improvement over Marlowe's reign without the break up, and Hawley would be basking in the adulation of being the saviour of the show.

[madmaverick]

I don't think anybody would disagree with you when you say that the writing is better, it's less 'boring', the COTWs are typically stronger.

 

 

Glad to see there's some common ground at least. :)

 

The problem is that the Caskett separation is a huge part of this season. The 'I will win her back' is thrown at us almost every episode up until this point. They have also intentionally made Castle look slow/stupid because they have to, to drag on this part of their separation. That's without even going into how they've made Beckett's rationale for leaving/keeping Castle in the dark extremely weak, and unrealistic. All of this removes enjoyment from each episode, it's hard to ignore.

 

Yes, I agree that there are huge problematic issues in the way they've set up and maintained this separation.  They could dial back on the 'winning her back' theme, or balance it out more with Castle seeking answers and Beckett questioning whether her decision was right in the first place.

 

But where we differ may be in how we perceive this whole separation arc- glass half empty or half full.  I guess I've learned to take it in stride like I have all the other relationship arcs over the course of the series, many of which I found to be problematic both in conception and execution.  At least this handful of episodes isn't joyless, or dare I say, fun-less, to me compared with the douchebag arc where all the anger and coldness from Castle, and Caskett being at odds like that, was more discomforting to watch for me than what we have currently.  I get that people may feel differently about that and for many, the separation ruins everything.  I don't embrace it but I'm resigned to accept it till the inevitable resolution, which hopefully will be better written than the separation.  And I'm resigned to the fact there will be barely any movement on the separation arc until midseason or something like that because this is how Castle always operates.  I don't like it but I don't expect different either.

 

The most frustrating thing is if they took out the separation bit out of the equation they'd be fine and they could still keep the new things they've brought in to freshen things up, that's what's so annoying about this.

 

That is frustrating.  I guess they didn't have the confidence they could keep it interesting without the separation since perhaps in their own minds they haven't been able to do that job in the past few seasons.  And we'll never know if we would have had the re-energised spark to Caskett scenes if they hadn't given them an (absurd) obstacle.  But no question they could have set up the separation differently if they really had to do it.  Like a fake separation or the other more acceptable theories thrown about here.  That said, still have to wait for the payoff to the current storyline to see if it can be redeemed to some extent.

[KaveDweller]

Hey thanks for the pictures! That's great, here's hoping it's not just a blink and you'll miss it scene.Going back to that TV line interview for a second reading Hawley's comments on the shirt sniffing exchange if you're having to explain to your audience about that scene at the end and what it means to the characters then in my mind you didn't do a very good job a writer.

Did he really have to explain that? I thought it was really obvious why she left the shirt in the scene......Hawley's comment didn't add any new info for me.

[verdana]

According to twitter the title of 8.10 will be Witness for the Prosecution.

That certainly fits in with all the latest pics the cast are tweeting, I really hope we get a juicy court room scene or two, preferably between Beckett and this new prosecutor, anything to get them all out of that drab, dark precinct.