Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[verdana]

About them working cases together and Castle pushing his way in as he's prone to do, separation business aside the problem I had with the Castle PI arc last season (and why I thought it had a limited shelf life) was the constant contrivance of having Castle and Beckett involved in the same cases each week. They managed to work it for three episodes but even by the final outing I thought it was getting kind of stupid and irritating. Also, why would she put up with it if he's poking his nose every single week into her NYPD investigations without her permission?  If they're not careful it can come over as him showing her a distinct lack of respect, I mean how many times can he do things against her wishes and push those boundaries for "fun" and it actually come over as funny? That's why I'm curious how this is all going to work because they seem to be concentrating on things that have inherent fundamental weaknesses especially if they plan to do them long term.

[verdana]

If I am remembering accurately didn't Ryan and/or Esposito once suggest to Castle that his whole relationship with Beckett is based on his boundary pushing??  If that's the angle their gonna try to work with I'm game (I guess)

When they weren't together and he was on the chase for her his constant boundary pushing made sense and it was required to literally propel their love story forward at key moments but now they're married I'm not sure that same dynamic works quite so well. I find when he does this now it annoys more than charms.  

[Chado]

Besides if this is a matter of them working cases together that leads people to believe it's "back to normal", who said they wouldn't be working a case together right off the bat in 803? This is Rick Castle after all. Does he listen to Beckett? Ever?

Because splitting them up personally and then having everything be back to 'normal' as far as cases go (keeping in mind that Beckett is now captain), makes this all sound completely convoluted.

 

It's like....'We can't be together......but hey it's ok if you are involved in this case with us at the 12th". Clearly I don't know the specifics, and clearly more of this will make sense once I watch the first 4 episodes.....but I don't understand how they can expect the audience to accept the break up whilst watching them solve cases together still.

 

She is captain, if she didn't want Castle around the cases, he wouldn't be. They can't use the ole Castle "persistence" as the basis for him being in episodes/cases for more than an episode or two. Certainly not for an entire season. It just doesn't work.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Chado

[Castle75]

I'm really curious to see how what happens with Bracken affects everything. How that ties into Beckett taking off and having to split from Castle. I've not felt that he was The Dragon or the top dog since he was called Lazarus in In The Belly of the Beast.

[madmaverick]

Guess this is the Caskett pic TV Line were promising a while ago (not terribly spoilery): http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-2015-season-premiere-spoilers/#!7/fall-preview-castle/

 

Never thought of Beckett as a girl who really wanted jewellery as a gift and to hint to her boyfriend for it, and then Castle really gifted her jewellery which struck me as a very generic gift for TV couples and not worthy of a proclaimed gift ninja.  So that was all a bit disappointing in terms of romantic potential and perhaps a result of Marlowe lacking imagination.  Here it looks like we have another round of jewellery gift giving.  It's sweet but I'm always going to prefer something more creative.  (The seashells kind of were, but so ugly as they were crafted.)  Maybe Castle makes up for that with his culinary surprise.  So we'll see Beckett lick the cream off the cake but that may be as heated as it gets ;) before the shit hits the fan and then who knows how many episodes it will be until we see more romance.  

 

. Not only that, but if there is an attempt to do some of their more light-hearted episodes, applying angst might be like seasoning angel food cake with sriracha -- theoretically it can be done, but it takes an incredibly skilled artist to pull it off.

 

Is that seriously a real thing?  I have to ask, because I like sriracha sauce and I like cake, but I can't imagine ever putting the two together!  That sounds even beyond any of Castle's more creative culinary creations.  Takes the salty sweet factor to an all new icky level!

 

And oh, I'm guessing we'll never see Spydaddy again because he's dead?  Wonder if that's part of the big storyline.  Bracken's another possibility, I guess, though the actor is listed for the premiere it could be flashbacks.

Edited September 8, 2015 by madmaverick

[verdana]

Castle seems happy with the safe option of giving jewellery to the wife on every special occasion by the looks of it.

 

I presume what he's given her is the gold bangle that was briefly glimpsed in the promo covered in blood it had "always" engraved on it.

 

Oh and she must be wearing flats or not slipped her power heels on yet because there's the adorable height difference back again. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

Yeah, I guess we have to see him give her the bracelet so that when he finds it covered in blood we know what it means. I remember in S5 they had Beckett wearing a bracelet that I think was supposed to be from Castle, for several episodes. If they had kept that up we wouldn't need to see him give her something new.

The only other person I would have guessed for not ever returning would be Gates, but TPTB previously said the door was open for her return. So yeah, it must be Castle's dad. We did hear he gets mentioned in the premiere.

[madmaverick]

Castle seems happy with the safe option of giving jewellery to the wife on every special occasion by the looks of it.

 

Well, she does look happy to receive it. I thought it was very jarring when Beckett first said that jewellery would be a nice gift back in S5.  Did the writers ever wonder if it was in character or they just went with it because jewellery was a plot point?  In reality, they probably don't give much attention to such things but it's these little incongruities that take away from characterisation for me.  Maybe it's just that I've never fully got on board with a Beckett who loves clothes and make up and jewellery because that feels alien to the Beckett I met in S1.

 

Yeah, I guess we have to see him give her the bracelet so that when he finds it covered in blood we know what it means.

 

 

God forbid we get any romantic gestures that aren't related to the plot. ;)

 

I remember in S5 they had Beckett wearing a bracelet that I think was supposed to be from Castle, for several episodes. If they had kept that up we wouldn't need to see him give her something new.

 

 

I thought that was just Luke playing around with Beckett's wardrobe as usual.  That's kind of the problem for me.  I realise this goes on in a lot of TV shows especially for the women, but he/Stana play around with Beckett's wardrobe and look a lot and I don't feel any connection from all the changes to Beckett's characterisation.  I don't have a sense of what Beckett likes or hates anymore, look wise, and there's a loss of personality in that way.

 

So yeah, it must be Castle's dad. We did hear he gets mentioned in the premiere.

 

He sends a "Dear Son, If you receive this, I am no longer of this world..." letter?  Drops the bombshell that Castle has half siblings out there.  Just kidding.  But who knows, maybe Castle is related to Ann Cusack's character.  No doubt Castle's Dad can't exit the world without leaving more mystery behind. ;)  If Castle's Dad is really dead, I'm more interested in getting some good character scenes with Castle and the family more than any plot machinations.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Maybe Tory dies (ie gets a bigger role elsewhere) ;)

I do agree it's probably SpyDaddy though.

Edited September 8, 2015 by FlickerToAFlame

[KaveDweller]

Well, she does look happy to receive it. I thought it was very jarring when Beckett first said that jewellery would be a nice gift back in S5. Did the writers ever wonder if it was in character or they just went with it because jewellery was a plot point? In reality, they probably don't give much attention to such things but it's these little incongruities that take away from characterisation for me. Maybe it's just that I've never fully got on board with a Beckett who loves clothes and make up and jewellery because that feels alien to the Beckett I met in S1.

I thought that was jarring too. I don't have an issue with Beckett liking a nice piece of jewelry, but it did seem out of character to suggest it. And no, the writers never think about character when they have a plot point to work in.

I also agree that they like to play with Beckett's wardrobe a lot, seemingly just for fun. I've noticed this especially with sleepwear. We've seen her wear multiple styles. I think lots of women may experiment with clothes a bit, especially based on what may be in stores, but I think they're less likely to do that with what they sleep in. But I'm someone who wouldn't know Beckett's clothes are designer/expensive if I didn't read it here. I either think something looks nice or not, but that's about it.

Regarding Castle in the precinct, Gates could never get rid of him, so why should Beckett be any different? But....are they really just trying to recapture the vibe of Castle following Beckett and her not wanting him there? Or him wooing her and trying to bring down her walls? Cause I get thinking those were good times for the show before, but I'm not totally seeing how that works for a married couple. But maybe it will once I see the episodes.

Edited September 8, 2015 by KaveDweller

[S55]

Maybe TPTB will finally put a dagger in the long-held fandom hope that Jordan Shaw will return. Heh.

 

My first thought was Castle's dad too. He seems to be someone folks are constantly asking about. Plus, considering Brolin's got a new show on CBS this fall, it makes sense. 

[Castle75]

Now that the spoiler from TVLine came out about not seeing a character again, I really think it's Bracken. Jack has Heroes and I don't see him having time for the character anymore.

[Cyranetta]

 

Is that seriously a real thing?  I have to ask, because I like sriracha sauce and I like cake, but I can't imagine ever putting the two together!  That sounds even beyond any of Castle's more creative culinary creations.  Takes the salty sweet factor to an all new icky level!

As far as I know, it's not a thing (and I hope it never becomes a thing!). I was just trying to imagine something that might be greeted as a "creative challenge" in something like Top Chef, but for which the likelihood of a successful outcome is dubious.It's the danger inherent in becoming so hypnotized by the idea of being "exciting", "different" or whatever other term they're using to describe the S8-reboot, that things like being plausible or palatable are thrown aside. It's kind of code-word for "you won't expect to like this, but we're so good we can make you." I suppose one could approach the idea musically -- inserting a krummhorn in the "Always" theme? <g>

[McManda]

My first thought on the not seeing

again was Bracken, and something like his death in jail (before a trial?) was what spurs the drama of this season. That might be too 24/action drama though, so maybe not.

 

I guess SpyDaddy would work too, but I would be said for Castle. As unbelievable as it is that his dad is a spy, I don't really want to see Castle said over the death of someone who he was building a save-the-world rapport with. I'd like to see believe that he could have something of a vague relationship with his dad at some point.

 

... maybe if it is Castle's dad ... he dies doing something related to Beckett's drama? I could see that being a reason for wanting to distance herself from Castle (and his family) to keep him safe.

[McManda]

I don't mind the quick kisses. I don't know, it seems very natural to me as a goodbye/hello kind of greeting. I don't think think it was meant to be romantic (well, outside "married"). I think it was supposed to be more familiar. I mean, she is apparently headed off to her first day as being a captain. It's not like she's got a bunch of time.

 

... oh, I just realized that she's probably taken up residence in the office. I'm going to miss her desk ... just like it's going to take me awhile to get accustomed to people addressing her as Captain Beckett. Detective Beckett rolls so well. I'm going to miss that, too.

[VinceW]

This is an opinion post, but from what I have seen, that's the conclusion I have come to. We shall see if it works for a married couple. Or if it matters at all because I still feel that fans will just be too upset but the break up to really accept any kind of story. That's not a judgement, I get it. 

 

Hal. I think your input about episodes 3 and 4 finally explains for me the purpose of the split which is that the show runners want to bring back some of the great vibes from the earlier seasons which can be risky if it lasts too long and the weekly criminal cases are weak. The majority(90%) of viewers don't watch spoilers or read blogs which means that the perception of a breakup could push viewers out right away. If the reason (blackmail over  Castle's past connections or associations?) for the 'Breakup to Keep You Safe' is not very plausible, it could make things even worse. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by VinceW

[verdana]

Maybe TPTB will finally put a dagger in the long-held fandom hope that Jordan Shaw will return. Heh.

 

My first thought was Castle's dad too. He seems to be someone folks are constantly asking about. Plus, considering Brolin's got a new show on CBS this fall, it makes sense. 

Noooo! Jordan Shaw must return. 

 

I say it's spydaddy that meets his maker, Brolin certainly didn't appear keen on reprising the role and they can easily get rid of him, although it's rather sad for Castle to lose a parent but then his father has hardly been that much of a significant influence on his life. 

 

He sends a "Dear Son, If you receive this, I am no longer of this world..." letter?  Drops the bombshell that Castle has half siblings out there.  Just kidding.  But who knows, maybe Castle is related to Ann Cusack's character.  No doubt Castle's Dad can't exit the world without leaving more mystery behind. ;)

Since the writers seem happy to wade into TV tropes territory may be we shouldn't joke around too much. I figure Rita who lest we forget is a member of a "top-secret organization" with an "unexpected connection" with Castle is a relative and going by the age of Cusack she's either an Aunt, half sibling or how about spydaddy's wife?  Why can't the guy be married and his (now) widow is also involved in the spy game business too? 

I thought that was just Luke playing around with Beckett's wardrobe as usual.  That's kind of the problem for me.  I realise this goes on in a lot of TV shows especially for the women, but he/Stana play around with Beckett's wardrobe and look a lot and I don't feel any connection from all the changes to Beckett's characterisation.  I don't have a sense of what Beckett likes or hates anymore, look wise, and there's a loss of personality in that way.

 

Same here, I don't have a clue any more and it's like they're not paying attention to any of that. I did love the bracelet KaveDweller mentioned and quite a few fans wondered if Castle had bought it for her.  

 

KaveDweller. Is this it? I remember this one it's called a Gold Skull bracelet.  It's by Jannik Olander retailed at $600. I love it but can't afford it which is pretty much the case with everything Beckett wears lol. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by verdana

[S55]

I never considered Bracken the answer to who we won't ever see again because, if you take it literally, he's appears in 801 (per the cast list in the press release), so we'll "see" him again. Even if perhaps it's just once and maybe only via a video from his jail cell or something. I took that TVL bit to mean it is someone we wouldn't even see in that capacity. 

[KaveDweller]

Same here, I don't have a clue any more and it's like they're not paying attention to any of that. I did love the bracelet KaveDweller mentioned and quiteit. a few fans wondered if Castle had bought it for her.  

 

KaveDweller. Is this it? I remember this one it's called a Gold Skull bracelet.  It's by Jannik Olander retailed at $600. I love it but can't afford it which is pretty much the case with everything Beckett wears lol. 

 

Yes, that is it.  The skills aren't really my style, but it seemed perfect for Beckett, especially as a gift from Castle.  I read a fanf or two where we see him give it to her.

 

I say it's spydaddy that meets his maker, Brolin certainly didn't appear keen on reprising the role and they can easily get rid of him, although it's rather sad for Castle to lose a parent but then his father has hardly been that much of a significant influence on his life.

 

Well they can also say he's dead, but then bring him back to life if they end up getting Brolin back.  As long as there's no body....

[FlickerToAFlame]

Driving Heat dedication:

http://t.co/OI90Qe4N2z

[KaveDweller]

Did they just take dialogue directly from Hollander's Woods for that?  So lazy.  I mean, it was a really sweet line and all, but they couldn't come up with an original sweet line?

[metaphor]

Yes, I was pretty much meh on the dedication, too. 

 

But I have to admit, the acknowledgments gave me the warm fuzzies. So it all balances out. 

 

http://twitter.com/CastleFreak811/status/641370690696839168/photo/1

[McManda]

Lazy, I guess, but the whole premise is that Castle wrote the dedication and the acknowledgments the night of his award ceremony, so ... I guess it makes sense? It is all "Castle" writing, isn't it?

[KaveDweller]

This is an opinion post, but from what I have seen, that's the conclusion I have come to. We shall see if it works for a married couple. Or if it matters at all because I still feel that fans will just be too upset but the break up to really accept any kind of story. That's not a judgement, I get it. 

 

Are Castle and Beckett actually describing themselves as broken up during all this? Or are they just physically separated/not talking?  I'm really curious how the split is going to be explained to the rest of the characters, and of their reaction to it.  I'm guessing the picture of Susan at the precinct means Martha goes there to talk some sense into Kate.  

 

The interaction between the two is going to drive whether fans will accept anything. Along with how long it goes on.  Some people may accept a few episodes of angst, but then get pissed if it seems to be dragging, especially without reminders of whatever is so dangerous.  I watched some of the S7 DVD commentary tonight, and I laughed because Marlowe said how Castle wasn't the kind of show where things carried over from one episode to another (major understatement). That will really have to change to make it work, and maybe that's what our new showrunners want to do.

Edited September 9, 2015 by KaveDweller

[FlickerToAFlame]

I'm wondering the same thing, KaveDweller. Would we be using the term "breakup" if not for the blind item?

[Chado]

Regarding Castle in the precinct, Gates could never get rid of him, so why should Beckett be any different? But....are they really just trying to recapture the vibe of Castle following Beckett and her not wanting him there? Or him wooing her and trying to bring down her walls? Cause I get thinking those were good times for the show before, but I'm not totally seeing how that works for a married couple. But maybe it will once I see the episodes.

Except in my opinion, Beckett splitting up with him changes the situation entirely.

 

I don't get how anybody could want to go back to seeing Castle follow her around like a puppy while she clearly doesn't want him there.

 

Ahhhhh......Castle is going to look like the biggest loser this entire season, I can just see it now.

[KaveDweller]

Except in my opinion, Beckett splitting up with him changes the situation entirely.

 

I don't get how anybody could want to go back to seeing Castle follow her around like a puppy while she clearly doesn't want him there.

 

Unless they play it as her actually wanting him there.  She tells him they have to be apart for safety, but then he shows up at the 12th and she clearly loves seeing him, but tries not to admit it because she thinks it's for his own good.  He uses the fact that she loves seeing him to convince her to get back together. It could work for a few episodes.  If they play it with her actually being angry with him and acting hostile when she sees him, but him still showing up, then no that would just be ridiculous.

 

I think we all have this picture in our heads of how the split happens and are basing our speculation on that, but it may play out differently than we are thinking. Either better or worse, but I am hoping better.

[turnitwayup]

LOL They look like a 2 man boyband.

 

CleverDever: Seamus and Jon are filming something special for you #Castle fans. Should I periscope a sneak peek? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CObgbIDVEAA71-b.jpg

 

Juliana's periscope link.

Edited September 9, 2015 by turnitwayup

[Noggin]

I don't see the problem of her getting rid of Castle now she is Captain, Montgomery claimed he could have him removed at anytime. I am pretty sure the Mayor and 1PP would not want him hanging around if there was a sniff of marital difficulties upsetting the workplace.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Noggin

[verdana]

But....are they really just trying to recapture the vibe of Castle following Beckett and her not wanting him there? Or him wooing her and trying to bring down her walls? Cause I get thinking those were good times for the show before, but I'm not totally seeing how that works for a married couple. But maybe it will once I see the episodes.

 

I can see why want to try because creatively there seems very little left in the tank at this point but it's such a cliche to be trying to move this couple back to that stage in their relationship. They're married and they should be able to figure out ways to deal with that but madmaverick is right, for some reason showrunners seem unable to manage to write couples well once they get together for any consistent period of time and instead revert to predictable patterns of manufactured drama in the hope that excites the audience enough to distract them.  May be it will work may it won't, it might give the show a temporary injection of energy but the problem is once they've started doing this they'll keep going back to it eventually and then it's case of rapidly diminishing returns. 

[BellyLaughter]

I'm willing to give it a shot but if they decide to throw "other potential love interests" into the mix I'm out.  I haven't watched this show for 7 seasons to see Castle and/or Beckett end up with different people and I won't be drawn into that sort of contrived BS this late in the piece.  That would be an insult!!  As verdana said - manufactured drama.....it's boring, pretty predictable and unimaginative.  If they have to have a break up I hope they try to keep it fresh, do something new and not fall into the predictable tropes of TV drama breakups cause would any Castle fan buy a new love interest (even if temporary) at this stage

Edited September 9, 2015 by BellyLaughter

[MaryM47]

And not even a pretend love interest to throw the bad guys off the scent - cue flashback to the entertainment reporter's boobs in his face.

[verdana]

I doubt they will go there just yet (with love interests) but I wouldn't be surprised if they try something in S9 if both leads are still around. Fans have said in the past "oh they won't go there!" well I thought they'd never get to this stage (of a separation) and yet here we are discussing how it might work out, I never thought they'd give Beckett a surprise marriage out of nowhere and take her down a peg or two but they did. Fans putting complete faith in the showrunners not to do certain things seems rather naive to me at this point and ABC look so desperate to keep the show going I don't think they'd care what stories they come up with unless it involved a massacre of major cast members.

Edited September 9, 2015 by verdana

[Chado]

I'd be amazed if they didn't play the jealousy/PLI card at some point during this season. It goes hand in hand with a breakup and all the angst that entails.

[verdana]

... oh, I just realized that she's probably taken up residence in the office. I'm going to miss her desk ... just like it's going to take me awhile to get accustomed to people addressing her as Captain Beckett. Detective Beckett rolls so well. I'm going to miss that, too.

 

 

I must say I'm going to get a kick out of when someone first calls her that, even if she has jumped up the ranks and missed a few in between lol. 

 

And talking of Captain Beckett..

 

Sandra knows best © retweeted

Rob kyker ‏@RobKyker  15 hrs15 hours ago

Set life.

https://twitter.com/RobKyker/status/641285904036851712

 

 

Wow that's rather big and flash unless it's just the way they took the picture, makes a statement. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

The interaction between the two is going to drive whether fans will accept anything. Along with how long it goes on.  Some people may accept a few episodes of angst, but then get pissed if it seems to be dragging, especially without reminders of whatever is so dangerous.  I watched some of the S7 DVD commentary tonight, and I laughed because Marlowe said how Castle wasn't the kind of show where things carried over from one episode to another (major understatement). That will really have to change to make it work, and maybe that's what our new showrunners want to do.

Good for you listening to Marlowe's commentary, I found him dry and dull to listen to, it was hard work so I rarely bothered. With regards to his comment yeah that's a fucking understatement, Castle is terrible at maintaining decent continuity and it makes it even more laughable when they actually have some briefly and fans say what great exponents they are of this which has me scratching my head. Just because they've remembered something for once in a blue moon doesn't make them good at it. lol

 

When it comes to the separation I don't see how they can maintain it past five or six episodes before fans grow restless and want them to get back to business as usual (whatever that is) with this new Castle Pi. If we're talking the story of what's behind the split with Bracken or whatever and that rumbles on in the background that's a different matter, that could go on for much longer but they have to be working on it together as a couple. If they go back to the secrets and lies bullshit with Kate keeping something from Castle all season long under the pretext that it's "for his own good" that's not cool. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

I'd be amazed if they didn't play the jealousy/PLI card at some point during this season. It goes hand in hand with a breakup and all the angst that entails.

The jealousy angle is another thing they should be beyond at this point, it used to be amusing but it became annoying and childish as their relationship grew more serious, trying to go back to that dynamic would be a mistake. Jealousy is not a rational emotion it can happen but Castle and Beckett don't need this added to their love story to spice it up, I find it boring and neither of them end up looking good. Edited September 9, 2015 by verdana

[BellyLaughter]

I'd be amazed if they didn't play the jealousy/PLI card at some point during this season. It goes hand in hand with a breakup and all the angst that entails.

Yep, it's surely on the cards *insert eyerolls*

I mean, how else do they prove that Castle and Beckett are truely, wuurely meant to be other than test them both with good looking suitors....or how about 7 seasons of storytelling....oh wait....

[Sara2009]

Never say never of course, but I think people are really jumping the gun with this potential love interest talk.

[verdana]

Castle ‏@Castle_ABC  2 hrs2 hours ago

Solving crime runs in the family. A new season of #Castle premieres Monday, September 21 at 10|9c on ABC.

https://twitter.com/Castle_ABC/status/641727535240347648

 

Jesus how out of touch are these people? That's the last thing fans want to see as promo material with barely weeks to go before the premiere. I can't believe they put that out. 

 

If fans wanted any further confirmation that things have fundamentally changed, that tweet sums it up.

 

Loved the reaction shot someone posted: https://twitter.com/joanacteixeira/status/641731117347917824

 

That is not the right way to promote the show unless you happen to believe the majority of your audience watch the show to see father/daughter crime solving. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by verdana

[BellyLaughter]

This bugs me more than any other spoiler we have had this summer (the big one included) -- I would rather watch Castle work on his own....it's bad enough that we have to endure more ridiculous PI story lines as it is. Throwing Alexis in there because (let's be honest) you have nothing better to do with her makes it just that much worse.

Of course YMMV ;)

[KaveDweller]

This bugs me more than any other spoiler we have had this summer (the big one included)

 

I was going to say the same thing.  I have no desire to watch Alexis get more screen time and I especially don't want to see her solving crimes with Castle. I hope that Tweet is misleading and not actually a reflection on what we are getting this season.

[McManda]

I don't really mind Alexis playing Nancy Drew to Castle's Sherlock Holmes, but I don't want that to be the focus of the show.

 

I also don't really mind the idea of "solving crimes [running] in the family" ... especially because Beckett's family now, too. So it's Castle, Beckett, and Alexis ... which kind of makes sense.

 

But I still don't want the focus to be on Alexis and Castle. Though given the choice between Castle and Alexis or Castle getting a brand new partner (Haley) ... I think I prefer Alexis. Just because that way it seems like an expansion of the show (family crime solving) instead of a very poor try at trying to recreate the earlier seasons (Castle and a female partner).

[madmaverick]

I can understand people not being keen on Alexis getting more screentime or not keen on Castle/Alexis investigating crimes together, but it really bugs me that some people (not referring to regulars here) are loudly screaming incest every time as a reaction to that storyline, which we haven't even seen yet.  I find the constant use of the I-word to be more disturbing and icky than anything I've seen on screen between Castle/Alexis over the seasons.  I am not always a fan of how they handle the Castle/Alexis dynamic but there's never been anything remotely incestuous in their interactions on screen to me.  Castle used Alexis as a sounding board for cases (the writers used Castle's family at home to give Castle his 'eureka' moment)  in the loft from time to time in the early seasons.  That lessened over time as Beckett took over that role even outside of the precinct but I didn't have a problem with it happening sometimes in the occasional father/daughter centric episodes like the death row and the plane episode.  I don't see it as comparison or competition with the Caskett dynamic, and I don't get any incestuous foreplay vibes from the scenes themselves at all just like I don't get any weird vibes when I see Ryan and Esposito theorize with Beckett.  Caskett is and always will be why I watch the show, but I am one of those who think the father/daughter (along with son/mother) dynamic still have a role to play on the show.

 

Frankly, I think the loud proclamations of incest also have a lot to do with those fans' vehement dislike of Alexis and Molly, and how they interpret her relationship with Nathan in real life, as well as a reaction to anything perceived to be taking away from Beckett which always invites a strong reaction.  But Beckett's getting her own Captain storyline as well and we have yet to see how that change along with the PI change and other plots affect the Caskett dynamic on the show. 

[madmaverick]

I also think people are jumping the gun with this incest talk, which I find far more implausible and distasteful than potential love interest talk.

 

I see Alexis taking a role as Castle's PI partner- temporary or permanent, we don't know- to be a function of Caskett splitting up professionally and personally.  When the writers decided a major opening storyline was to be a Caskett split and a Beckett promotion, they decided to shake things up by making it unsuitable for Castle to shadow a new Captain at the outset and the parallel PI and Captain storylines was the natural progression from that.  They wanted new people to fill in the PI universe against the precinct's so they brought in Toks' character and Alexis.  Whether it's a good use of Alexis, we shall see, but it was probably a logical progression for the writers to use her that way to connect her with the crime solving since they've never really seemed interested in using her in other realms.

 

I would like to think that they're not going to go play the jealousy/potential love interest card at some point this season, but this being Castle, with its fondness for TV tropes... ;)  That said, I think there's never going to be any genuine interest by either party, but the other party will be jealous from afar.  Then again, I never thought Beckett would ever give Vaughn or any other man a second look whilst with Castle and I was wrong.  To me, the writers have made a lot of mistakes with their angst arcs in the past, and I just hope they won't be repeating them.  I want to be rooting for the characters still, not be turned off by them.

[verdana]

but it really bugs me that some people (not referring to regulars here) are loudly screaming incest every time as a reaction to that storyline, which we haven't even seen yet.

 

Their relationship is not incestuous, I do have other issues with their dynamic but that's a topic for another discussion. Unfortunately though there have been times when TPTB have done things I want to unsee. Like the spoon feeding of food to dad when they've made a point of doing the exact same thing in a sexual way with Beckett not moments before. It's the same with the theory building that they had her doing in LFLD - Marlowe made a point of saying when Beckett and Castle build theory together it was their version of foreplay, when they have Alexis doing the same thing it felt inappropriate and kind of creepy. I know they had Alexis recognize it's what her dad does with Beckett and tried to make a joke out of it in the car but...sorry no I don't want to be reminded about this even in jest. 

 

But generally speaking for most fans it's not about incest or hating on the actors, what they're up in arms about is the simple fact they don't watch primarily to see Castle and Alexis play pseudo detectives, that's not what the show's about (or was) but that's how they're choosing to promote it even if they do stick "family" in there it doesn't come over to me that Beckett is considered a part of that family. If she is then it would have been more appropriate to have Kate in the picture too surely?

 

But then may be the network has decided what they lose in Caskett viewers over time they'll gain in ones that like the idea of a father-daughter crime fighting duo. It's not impossible they can find a fresh audience but it is highly unlikely at this stage. If this is the route they're going down on the show I think it's a big mistake. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by verdana

[BellyLaughter]

But then may be the network has decided what they lose in Caskett viewers over time they'll gain in ones that like the idea of a father-daughter crime fighting duo. It's not impossible they can find a fresh audience but it is highly unlikely at this stage. If this is the route they're going down on the show I think it's a big mistake.

I think this is the more likely scenario -- they aren't focusing on the Caskett dynamic exclusively anymore because circumstance dictates that they can't so they aren't really writing for that audience anymore! They're just patronising us with generalisations. Either it will work and fans will transition or it won't and we can kiss S9 goodbye?!? It's a massive risk and not ideal but does anyone really think that if they couldn't keep telling the Caskett story, keeping the fans satisfied and happy, they wouldn't?? I mean who WILLINGLY casts aside, for the most part, their story's biggest asset -- it's engine and throws in an already proven to be unpopular SL (PI Castle) in its place?

I just wish ABC wasn't so desperate.....it's killing this show.

[verdana]

Whether it's a good use of Alexis, we shall see, but it was probably a logical progression for the writers to use her that way to connect her with the crime solving since they've never really seemed interested in using her in other realms.

 

On one hand I can see why they've done it because they don't seem to know how to do with Molly. However, I don't see this situation as a natural progression for either character, the idea that Alexis has this sudden burning desire to join dad in the seedy world of the PI business seems odd and more importantly I can't see her dad actively encouraging it given the possible inherent dangers and general unpleasantness they must encounter.

 

They also seem keen based on that clip in the promo of promoting the idea of Castle being treated like a patsy by his brilliant pseudo detective daughter (now partner) and I can guarantee that's going to annoy fans real quick if they keep that particular dynamic going. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by verdana

[BellyLaughter]

Yeah the whole "silly old doofus Dad" shtick will get old really quickly

[verdana]

It's sad that their dynamic has shifted to the extent that dad is often portrayed as wrong, incompetent and a fool whilst Alexis is clearly the smart one in their relationship and never wrong. Why the writers have chosen this path and see it as entertaining beats me because it makes fans dislike Alexis even more and Castle hardly comes out of it looking good either he's so weak and ineffectual.

In the early days Alexis was serious, smart and painted as mature beyond her years but she wasn't always right and her father was definitely in charge when it counted even if he enjoyed playing up the goofball persona up sometimes but as a parent he was firm, caring and sensible. Alexis hasn't matured into young adulthood she's regressed under these writers, giving her more sophisticated wardrobe isn't enough, she needs to start acting like an adult not just dressing like one.

Edited September 10, 2015 by verdana