S07.E11: Castle, P.I.

[TWP]

My husband had to remind me that Castle was on this week. Yawners. The episode was cute, sort of entertaining in an overacted, neo-noir Sin City or even Blue Butterfly kind of way. Kind of interesting, but not the shtick that I would stick with for more than an episode, two at the most.

They've turned the romance into slapstick comedy almost. The kindergarten kissing was silly. Nothing about the interaction between these two convinces anyone that they're even a couple of anything but casual friends who joke about being lovers. If PTB are trying to tone down the rabid shippers, I'm sure it's working.

The ratings were tied for series lowest at 1.4. It was national college football championship night, so probably greatly due to that. But mehhh...

[FlickerToAFlame]

I thought this felt like Susan's flair (I actually liked it):

@RobHanning: “@abbowitz: @RobHanning Martha's "babe" to Beckett, script or Susan?” Susan

Edited January 14, 2015 by FlickerToAFlame

[BkWurm1]

Fun episode though if it wasn't for my DVR I would have missed it.  Had no clue it was back this week.

 

It didn't feel entirely like Castle and long term not having them working together is going to get old fast but I don't expect it to be long term so I'll just have fun with the change up for now. 

 

I think Gates' heart isn't really into kicking Castle out of her precinct.  Notice how long she just stood there watching her people and Castle clicking on all cylinders by the murder board.  She'd like to find a way to let him stay but she can't and even if she's reluctant, eventually she has to kick him out and I think the inner conflict probably makes her extra cranky. 

 

Espo shows his love by playing it cold.  It's a verbal version of guys greeting each other with a punch to the shoulder.  A hard punch, but it's still friendly.

 

I suppose Kate and Martha got extra close while Castle was missing, leaning on each other, boosting each others hope when they were feeling low.  That's the story I was telling myself when I watched Martha get the good morning peck on the cheek, lol.  Surprising but awfully sweet how much of a family they are, and how comfortable they are with each other. 

 

Got the impression that both PI's and Cops work a lot later hours than I thought.  They kept saying, see you tonight, even when it was night and even while Castle and Alexis were eating dinner. 

 

Lots of clothes in bed is just a standard TV troupe.  We should be grateful that a) we get to see them in bed and b) Twin Beds are looong gone, lol.  Still not sure how Richie on the Dick Van Dyke Show was conceived.   

[axj73]

I enjoyed this episode. It made me smile. This PI thing might go on longer than we think as Castle's PI office is the new permanent set they created to replace Beckett's apartment. In my mind I think that once Beckett has kids she'll quit the NYPD and become a PI along with Castle. This will all happen off screen in my head of course. Surely being a PI has better working hours than the NYPD so would make sense. They could still work together but also spend time with their three children that the dude from the future said they'd have!!

[Sara2009]

I actually liked their kisses in this episode.

[femmefan1946]

<<Espo shows his love by playing it cold.  It's a verbal version of guys greeting each other with a punch to the shoulder.  A hard punch, but it's still friendly.>>

Well, that makes more sense than 'Espo is in love/ had a relationship with Beckett and is jealous of Castle.'

 

<<Still not sure how Richie on the Dick Van Dyke Show was conceived.>>

When Dick tripped over the ottoman, Mary went to his rescue......

[cali1981]

 

 

When Beckett gave Castle the gift, I said, "I bet it's a hat," but I thought it would be a Sam Spade-type fedora, not a deerstalker.

Bingo!  That is exactly what I thought.  I was expecting a slightly rumpled Dashiell Hammett era fedora, much like the one that Patrick Stewart wore in Star Trek TNG when the holodeck put him in 1940's San Francisco as Dixon Hill, the private detective.  It would have been perfect but the Sherlock Holmes hat and magnifying glass were pretty good.  It would have been even better if Beckett got Castle a Bloodhound named Toby.

Edited January 15, 2015 by cali1981

[Clanstarling]

 

<<I guess we can't have any views of naked flesh in case it scares the oldies, especially in bed.>>

 

I'm an "oldie" from the hippie era, we liked naked flesh just fine. ;-)

[KaveDweller]

Nothing about the interaction between these two convinces anyone that they're even a couple of anything but casual friends who joke about being lovers.

 

It convinces me.

 

I enjoyed this episode. It made me smile. This PI thing might go on longer than we think as Castle's PI office is the new permanent set they created to replace Beckett's apartment.

 

Yeah, I wondered about that too.

[TWP]

It convinces me.

 

 

 

Sorry, Kave, I shouldn't have been so general.  I think I've stepped back far enough that I don't feel like I have any investment with this show anymore. Given my current perspective, I now believe those on other blogs and forums who have said that even as early as Season 3 these two actors stopped having chemistry.   But from my own experience, I can definitely see how others would feel differently.  I used to think they had it. Now I definitely don't.

 

I still hold that the ep was cute and sort of entertaining.  But for me, definitely cringeworthy on the romance front.  And oh, so forgettable on the everything front.

[KaveDweller]

Sorry, Kave, I shouldn't have been so general.  I think I've stepped back far enough that I don't feel like I have any investment with this show anymore. Given my current perspective, I now believe those on other blogs and forums who have said that even as early as Season 3 these two actors stopped having chemistry.   But from my own experience, I can definitely see how others would feel differently.

 

Chemistry is definitely a subjective thing.  If you look across the Castle fandom there are people with so many differing opinions you'll get whiplash.

 

But I think it's two different things.  Or two different kinds of chemistry.  There is the heat/sexual tension and then there is whether the things they say/do are realistic for a couple.  I don't think Castle/Beckett are the hottest couple on TV, but I think they do a really great job with the banter and loving looks and all that.  But again, obviously subjective.

[Lucynda]

A thought just occurred to me: since Castle isn't Beckett's partner anymore, why does she not have a new one? Why did she never have a partner? Is that something that's just not typical with the Police in the US?

[WendyCR72]

A thought just occurred to me: since Castle isn't Beckett's partner anymore, why does she not have a new one? Why did she never have a partner? Is that something that's just not typical with the Police in the US?

 

Partners within US police forces are the norm. Just watch Law & Order or any of its spinoffs.  :-) Even '80s cop shows had partnered pairs. Beckett probably didn't have a partner to begin with so it would be easy for Castle to buddy up with her. But even though the show, unlike the L&O franchise above, is not grounded in reality, I do think the lack of a partner is just...weird. Beckett is not a Lieutenant, so she should/would still conceivably be partnered with someone.

[GeorgieNY]

That is a really good point! interestingly, when she went to DC, The guy who replaced her didn't seem to have a partner either. Hmmm. Would anyone like to see a new character/partner?

[WendyCR72]

That is a really good point! interestingly, when she went to DC, The guy who replaced her didn't seem to have a partner either. Hmmm. Would anyone like to see a new character/partner?

 

I saw very early key art for S1 of the show where the guy Seamus Dever replaced was in it. Maybe he should have been kept as a partner for Beckett. As for now, maybe Beckett should have a "real" partner. It could be interesting to see how C/B handle a new dynamic.

[verdana]

I saw very early key art for S1 of the show where the guy Seamus Dever replaced was in it. Maybe he should have been kept as a partner for Beckett. As for now, maybe Beckett should have a "real" partner. It could be interesting to see how C/B handle a new dynamic.

This idea would work best if you're talking a short term deal and they make it into some mini story arc because having to cope with a new character long term which requires development would pose a problem given how lousy they are at fleshing out the secondary characters.  Knowing these writers instead of doing something genuinely interesting with the premise they would take the predictable route of making her partner some smart hot guy and we would get a jealous insecure Castle acting up constantly and an exasperated Beckett trying to keep the peace. 

[verdana]

I enjoyed this episode. It made me smile. This PI thing might go on longer than we think as Castle's PI office is the new permanent set they created to replace Beckett's apartment.

 

I saw that tweet from Andrew saying the set was permanent. Amann said it was a relatively short term thing but may be the hope is in the writers room that if this mini arc is successful they could keep going back to it every so often. I'd rather they didn't, the premise doesn't work long term that every case he has the NYPD just happens to also get involved with.  I presume at some point he's going to realise that PI work is not for him due to some incident, Kate will become concerned and they get him back to the precinct at the same time. Beckett's apartment was permanent and how often did we see that in the last few years? May be they can turn Alexis into a PI and she can have the office since she's never at college, it would give Molly something to do.

Edited January 15, 2015 by verdana

[McManda]

I saw that tweet from Andrew saying the set was permanent. Amann said it was a relatively short term thing but may be the hope is in the writers room that if this mini arc is successful they could keep going back to it every so often.

 

Could "permanent" just mean something they keep around for awhile? We know this PI thing if going to last a good 4 or whatever episodes, so it would make sense if they just kept it up because they had the space (as opposed to victim's apartments and work locations and things that vary from week to week). I don't know that "permanent" implies "forever" in this case.

[KaveDweller]

I saw that tweet from Andrew saying the set was permanent.

 

Beckett's bathroom was a permanent set.  And actually I think I read last year that Alexis and Pi's apartment was a permanent set (but who knows if that's true).

 

I was rewatching this episode and remembered another moment I loved.  When Castle and Beckett are at the loft and she's saying she can't share information with him, Castle just starts talking about getting justice and she's all in.  He did the same thing in Once Upon a Time in the West to get her to agree to go to Arizona.  I love that he totally knows how to get to her and can talk her into pretty much anything at this point.

[WendyCR72]

I don't think "permanent" sets mean they will be constantly used, but the size makes it such that once it is built that it remains intact (and not taken down at the end of taping as some sets are following taping) for future use.

[Sonik Tooth]

I enjoyed this episode tremendously. A lot of great physical and visual comedy on top of a funny, sweet and fresh script.

 

I liked the good-natured comebacks and put-downs. They really worked for me in this episode because of how the characters were portrayed. And because everybody got what’s coming to them. I think timing and reaction shots also played a big role.

 

I especially liked:
How Beckett was shown adapting to the new situation and tricking Castle (lots of great comedy) to sharing the arrest with him and the sweet present at the end.

 

The whole wine scene, from unstopping the bottle to Castle filling Beckett’s glass with his share and what was left in the bottle.

 

The scene in the morgue with Perlmutter and Castle.

 

Castle tapping on the dog sitter’s arm while being strangled or him carelessly spreading the dog’s hair on the prosecutor.

 

The plastic stool Beckett was being sidelined on during the interview in Castle’s office, her quickly adapting to the situation and butting in.

 

Gates reprimanding and yelling, and the various reactions to her from Castle, Beckett, Esposito and Ryan.

 

And actually lots more.

[madmaverick]

OK, is anyone else unfortunately being constantly reminded of Pi with all the references to P.I,?  Noooooooo. ;)

 

I liked the good-natured comebacks and put-downs. They really worked for me in this episode because of how the characters were portrayed. And because everybody got what’s coming to them. I think timing and reaction shots also played a big role.

 

 

Agreed.  Too often it's a bit off in how the characters react and something like too much meanness or insensitivity can be a real turn off for me.  I thought Castle was out of line in keeping his P.I. secret from his wife, but Beckett also was a bit out of line in trying to coax info out of Castle with her tricks and go back to not sharing the morning after.  But they both handled in a good natured, understanding way (no more douchebag arc, thankfully) with the changes and you never felt that their relationship was anything but solid, especially with the way they came together in the end.

 

also really liked the hug at the precinct. In my opinion, very often, either Castle or Beckett are is in a difficult situation, come out unscathed, and it's just shrugged off and never mentioned again after an "are you okay?". So this definitely added a very real touch for me.

 

Really liked this too.  Agreed that too often that moment of concern (panic, relief) is shortchanged.  Blink and you'll miss it.  They should be far beyond simply asking the other if they're OK after the other has been in danger (or thought to be).  There should be hugging, touching at the very least.

 

The whole wine scene, from unstopping the bottle to Castle filling Beckett’s glass with his share and what was left in the bottle.

 

I also liked Beckett's comment about now liking expensive wine.  Bourgeoisie sneaks up on you like that.  Inquiring minds also want to know if they ever drink white at home.  But of course, if red wine makes Beckett go all........... why would Castle buy anything else? ;)

 

The scene in the morgue with Perlmutter and Castle.

 

Perlmutter's ringtone also made me laugh for some reason.

 

Castle tapping on the dog sitter’s arm while being strangled or him carelessly spreading the dog’s hair on the prosecutor.

 

Enjoyed both bits of physical comedy, especially the dog hair bit lol.  Nathan was also good at pretending to be pepper sprayed.

 

The plastic stool Beckett was being sidelined on during the interview in Castle’s office, her quickly adapting to the situation and butting in.

 

 

Nice bit of physical comedy by Stana as well in reaction to the plastic stool heh.

 

Didn't really see Castle's P.I. office clearly in the episode but there seems to be a red globe and some kind of LED monitor or an aquarium directly behind his chair? Both seemed a bit odd to me. I guess they will be going with the old school noir theme for the office.

[verdana]

If did happen once. After the Storm.

 

It's probably Nathan's choice not to be shirtless, which ya know…actors.

Which was a long time ago now but regarding the other, yeah I can well believe it. It would also explain the oddity of him being hidden awkwardly behind that table playing strip poker but his shirt remained on.

Edited January 17, 2015 by verdana

[GeorgieNY]

Which was a long time ago now but regarding the other, yeah I can well believe it. It would also explain the oddity of him being hidden awkwardly behind that table playing strip poker but his shirt remained on.

Also shirtless and Becket in lingerie in Murder, he Wrote. :-)

Edited January 18, 2015 by GeorgieNY

[sinkwriter]

One of my favorite moments in this episode was when Castle had spent all sorts of time staking out the guy who brings his kids to the school, watching and waiting for when he would show up and drop his coffee cup into the garbage, then Castle hurries over and pauses to enjoy the moment when he at last reaches in and captures the necessary DNA... only for Esposito to swoop in and say, "Sorry, man... not this time." And Ryan's there with gloves on, taking the cup first. And then they fist bump and walk away, leaving Castle standing there, all "Curses! Foiled!" LOL. It was a funny moment to me. And I liked it because -- though I enjoy seeing a smart and clever Castle -- I especially appreciate seeing the precinct team also smart and capable. Castle had been ahead of them quite a bit in coming up with ideas and gathering intel; it was great to see the guys beat him to it just this once. It made me laugh.

 

I also liked the interplay between Castle and Beckett throughout. I think we've always known their strategizing and case discussion is pretty much foreplay for the two of them, so it was fun to see them both getting all hot and bothered as they dissected case details and came up with ideas, even though they weren't supposed to be working together. It was almost like the forbidden act of even discussing the case made it even more heated for them, which amused and charmed me.

 

I thought it was a cute episode. And if they allow Castle some serious moments as a PI as well as the humorous ones, I'll be very happy with this plot angle. For example, when he got pepper-sprayed by the dog sitter, I liked the twist that the guy was actually a good friend of the victim and just wanted to protect himself after getting mugged not long ago - but the moment also reminded me that for all his smarts Castle is not fully trained like a cop would be, and his poking around unrestrained by the rules and regulations of a precinct can actually get him into dangerous spots and even get him killed. So as long as the show acknowledges that from time to time, I would appreciate it. We'll see...

[verdana]

Whilst it was a welcome change to see have him look intelligent and resourceful, watching Castle snooping around a school spying on the parents and kids going in....that kind of thing could get you arrested over here.

[sinkwriter]

 

Whilst it was a welcome change to see have him look intelligent and resourceful, watching Castle snooping around a school spying on the parents and kids going in....that kind of thing could get you arrested over here.

 

Yeah, I hope that kind of tone doesn't become a regular thing. Don't dumb down the lead characters (or any of the characters, for that matter). I don't mind an occasional silly scene, like when Espo and Ryan beat Castle to the coffee cup, but I don't want them to turn Castle into Mr. Slapstick Comedy Routine all the time. Don't test me, showrunners. I've stopped watching other shows; I'll have no issue removing you from my viewing list.  :)

[verdana]

I know fans don't like it, but if the actor is uncomfortable shirtless the producers aren't going to fight with him on it. It's not a daytime soap or a show on the CW trying to appeal to teens with a bunch of shirtless Zac Efron look a likes.

Your response makes me ask if he was a romantic lead on a higher profile and more profitable ABC (or any network) show would the execs apply pressure on the actor to meet a certain agreed standard? Would they give him a series of warnings or even fine him if he didn't meet that standard? Seems to me that if you're playing the romantic lead on any TV show or in a movie then staying in shape to avoid any such problems or restrictions with filming is part of the job description. Of course the women don't get to have a choice, its stay thin or else. Edited January 19, 2015 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

Seems to me that if you're playing the romantic lead on any TV show or in a movie then staying in shape to avoid any such problems or restrictions with filming is part of the job description. Of course the women don't get to have a choice, its stay thin or else.

 

Maybe it has to do with his age and the age of the Castle viewers? TPTB think that because of that shirtless Nathan wouldn't excite fans or bring in more viewers so they don't care to insist on it?

 

But I see a lot of younger actors talking about needing to stay in shape for the various shirtless scenes.  I remember way back when Lois and Clark was on, Dean Cain talked about how he had to work out/eat healthy all the time because he had to wear the spandex Superman suit in every episode. But Castle doesn't have to wear an outfit like that for plot purposes. Or maybe there's some health reason that Nathan isn't in great shape, and because of that TPTB don't give him any grief about it.

Edited January 19, 2015 by KaveDweller

[Samantha84]

I'll just say that I loathe the double standard. In general women in Hollywood, on television have to stay in shape/small/tiny/thin but men can gain weight and it's not talked about b/c it's rude etc. It is but then let's save that same kind of sympathy for women as well. 

We all know if Stana had put on weight to the degree of her co-star we would have heard whispers about her being asked to shed the pounds. Double standards! 

[WendyCR72]

Actually, I already have! Ha. And not to be a bitch here, I'm all for some leeway, but this is starting to take over the thread. And the topic of weight has been discussed more than once with the same results, so let's please get back to the episode itself.

 

Thanks a lot!

[verdana]

Thanks for getting back to me Hal. Interesting. Yeah Scandal was the kind of high profile show I was thinking about. 
 
Poor Dean Cain. I loved Lois and Clark.
 
Sorry Wendy, I wasn't trying to derail the thread I was genuinely curious how things worked between the actors and their employers, I've always been fascinated by the BTS contractual stuff but this particular issue can become a contentious subject so yeah best to stop now and get back to this episode heh. 

Edited January 19, 2015 by verdana

[Gant]

Just had a chance to watch the episode, so can't add anything more to the discussion. My favourite of the season. I realize that the sizzle and freshness are mostly artificially made, because of the enforced, PI-out-of-precinct circumstances, and can't last. Still, to my understanding for shows with limiting premise and in their 7th seasons, it's pretty much the only way to resurrect their initial fun, if only for a brief time.