The Messengers - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

On the hunt for the Horseman of War, Joshua, Erin and Peter make great strides for the group. Raul and Vera are more hesitant to believe and when they stray, there are unforeseen consequences. But when Vera discovers her gift, she finally starts to rethink her purpose.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On the hunt for the Horseman of War, Joshua, Erin and Peter make great strides for the group.

 

Thanks to using Google to research Joshua's visions

 

Raul and Vera are more hesitant to believe and when they stray, there are unforeseen consequences.

 

None of that really happened in the episode.

 

Churchy McGee/Joshua opens the episode with the voiceover about what the hell is going on in this show -- and I don't really believe even he knows what he says is true.

 

Raul spouts off Horseman, Shmorseman -- he's got a family problem to deal with .... with a flashback to Raul and his brother and a drug deal gone bad at a strip club ... before returning to present day and topping off the rad in his car while Nadia bitches at him.

 

So I guess this is going to be the flash back before the meteor episode. Whoop-a-dee-doo !!

 

And the bar Team Angelwings is assembled at is called 'The Last Supper Bar and Grill' -- Oh FFS !!

 

After Vera flashbacks to the day she found out she was pregnant, Allan shows up at her door wondering why she is in Houston.

 

Why does the druglord, El Jeffe, think that Lucifer is DEA ?  And why does Lucifer's accent keep wandering from American to a slightly Germanic accent ?

 

Raul visits his old DEA contact, and get distracted by a grandfather clock so the DEA contact grabs his gun -- that is so fucking stupid.  And then as the DEA contact sits their like an idiot with a gun pointed at Raul's head, Raul grabs the gun and proceeds to lay a beat down on him.

 

And the stone from the meteor site is magic -- composed of all the elements on the periodic table (wouldn't that make it highly radioactive ?) plus one unknown element, it can make flowers grow and rapidly age apples to dust.

 

How did that guy know to be at that lab, at that time and know that Allan would just leave the rock lying around unguarded so that he could steal it and return it to a Project Genesis lab that is rebuildng the meteor that crashed in the crater piece by piece ?  That means they knew that Vera and Allan had that piece all along.  Which is mind-bogglingly stupid.

 

Vera's power is that her spirit can leave her body --- and back again.  And while her spirit is out of her body, her body is dead and there are no physical repercussions.  Seriously ?  How come she didn't just float through the air or fall through the floor if she was a spirit ?

 

Teenhulk/Peter is entranced by the songs of a homeless woman named Eliza scrounging through the garbage near the bar -- right before he is arrested for murder.  Is Eliza the last member of Team Angelwings ?

 

And I'm out.  This is all just too fucking ridiculous, poorly acted and really poorly written.

[bluebonnet]

Hahah, ottoDbusDriver, we both came to post a running commentary at the same time.  I'll clean mine up a bit so it doesn't look too redudant.

 

-Raul liked his brother's wife.  As if no one saw that one coming.  Likely Nadia will turn out to be his daughter.  Raul get blackmailed into joining the DEA.  He later blackmails the DEA into telling him where his brother is.  Raul gives lots of sexy face.  I noticed that a lot.  Raul and Luci have this super sexy stand off in the middle of fire, only to cut to commercial before they kiss.  Ahem, I mean, before we see him sell out his friends.  So much exposition and they decide to deprive us of studmuffins the one and only time they don't overly expose. Lame.  

 

-Omg, Vera is Kitty Pryde.  She can totally walk through walls, finally this show might be good.  I love Kitty Pryde.  I wonder if this means Vera will be able to do the brain time travel thingy like on Days of Future Past.  This is seriously the best thing ever because....oh.  Never. freaking. mind.  Spirit walker.  I don't want to talk about it.  In other Vera news, her co-worker stalks her to a hotel in Houston where some special scientist works which causes Vera to give side eye which alerts us to the fact that this special scientist is probably Michael's father (he is, no surprise there).  It's all about the alien rock, I mean meteorite which I've named Alien Rock.  Alien Rock does weird things to organic material nearby.  But apparently only when convenient.  Doesn't do shit when the camera isn't looking.

 

-Preacher sees an image of a middle eastern person who must be the horseman of war.  The first picture of a middle eastern person Healer mom sees is apparently absolutely the one they want.  Everything about this feels a bit racist, because apaprently middle eastern people are only one type of person and they all look alike?  (that's sarcasm if anyone didn't notice.  I'm very grrrrrr right now).  Exposition and Healer somehow manage to sneak into a mosque where a prime minister is visiting.  yeah right.  Later we discover the horseman of war might be cindy the senator.

 

-Strong teen has another super power - he can google like a boss.  He also hears Amazing Grace (ugh, was only a matter of time before this was forced on the audience), follows it, only to be swarmed by a gazillion cops because it apparently takes that many to arrest a teen who accidentally killed his longtime bullies in self defense.  Ffs.

 

-Lucifer is the laziest asshole.  Seriously, can't this dude do anything for himself.  And fix your accent, Luci!

 

-Exposition angel continues to provide us with exposition.  She especially likes to reminds us of things we saw two minutes before.  

 

-Operation genesis.  "Scientists" who apparently have control of the rest of Alien Rock.  Oh, and the stray alien rock is now reunited with the rest of him.  

 

This show is really dumb.  I spent more time typing up notes and then cleaning up notes than I spent actually watching.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

Here's the really weird thing -- why was the latest episode so short ?  It was only 37 minutes long, which basically means The CW crammed an extra 5 minutes of ads into the hour.  

 

Episode 1 was 41 minutes, 30 seconds, Episode 2 was 38 minutes and Episode 3 was 37 minutes, 11 seconds  -- at this pace, by the time you take out the 1+ minute of previouslies at the beginning of each episode, the last episode of Season 1 should be about 25 minutes long.

[mjc570]

 

And I'm out.  This is all just too fucking ridiculous, poorly acted and really poorly written.

 

You said it.  I couldn't even make it through this episode -and, believe me, my standards are LOW.  The flashbacks were somewhat confusing, Vera (hate the name) was so annoying, both present and flashback (yeah, throw your wine in the face of your baby daddy just because he's breaking up with you in the nicest way), the exposition fairy is one-note, and don't care about the rest.  There's not one character I have any interest in, whatsoever.  Sorry, CW.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Why does the druglord, El Jeffe, think that Lucifer is DEA ?  

 

And the stone from the meteor site is magic -- composed of all the elements on the periodic table (wouldn't that make it highly radioactive ?) plus one unknown element, it can make flowers grow and rapidly age apples to dust.

 

How did that guy know to be at that lab, at that time and know that Allan would just leave the rock lying around unguarded so that he could steal it and return it to a Project Genesis lab that is rebuildng the meteor that crashed in the crater piece by piece ?  That means they knew that Vera and Allan had that piece all along.  Which is mind-bogglingly stupid.

 

Vera's power is that her spirit can leave her body --- and back again.  And while her spirit is out of her body, her body is dead and there are no physical repercussions.  Seriously ?  How come she didn't just float through the air or fall through the floor if she was a spirit ?

 

Teenhulk/Peter is entranced by the songs of a homeless woman named Eliza scrounging through the garbage near the bar -- right before he is arrested for murder.  Is Eliza the last member of Team Angelwings ?

 

 

 

 

Lucifer had a badge he showed to Raul, so he's got fake ID powers or something. This didn't seem like El Heffe's first meeting with Lucifer, though that could have been clearer. Lucifer showing himself to Raul all glowing and such after the boom was silly and served no purpose. Why would he do that?

 

The radioactivity of the meteor fragment would also depend on the concentration of those elements. So, it wouldn't necessarily be dangerous. But Francium has a half life measured in minutes, and Astatine has a half life measured in hours, so there shouldn't be any of those elements left in the sample. I would be surprised if a standard issue mass spectrometer even looks for elements like that. Oh, and the helium all leaked away already :-)

 

I guess they only suspected Vera had a piece (and technically she didn't, what's-his-name had it). So dude followed her around, discretely enough that two dumb scientists never spotted their tail.

 

-Omg, Vera is Kitty Pryde. 

 

-Preacher sees an image of a middle eastern person who must be the horseman of war.  The first picture of a middle eastern person Healer mom sees is apparently absolutely the one they want.  

 

-Lucifer is the laziest asshole.  Seriously, can't this dude do anything for himself.  And fix your accent, Luci!  

I suspect there's a time limit for how long she can stay out of her body, like Negative Man from the old Doom Patrol. But unlike either of those superheroes, she may not be able to touch or carry anything. I was expecting her power to take longer to reveal and be more significant to the overall plot. Considering it looks like she can kill herself if she's not careful, it was kind of dumb for Exposition Angel to withhold the instruction manual.

 

The flames surrounding the picture in the fireplace was supposed to be the big clue. Given Joshua's incredible lack of detail in describing his visions, that was a (suspiciously) good catch by healer mom. It seems obvious that Middle Eastern (actually Afghan) guy's "people" would have been pissed at him for some peaceful, America-friendly thing he was about to announce right before he gets assassinated next week.

 

Lucifer having to act through others is a common trope for devil characters. 

 

I was hoping "spiritual homeless person" was actually the point person for the police detail that caught Peter (irony), but I guess not.

[FurryFury]

I'm hearing it's canceled (to no one's surprise), but there hasn't been an official announcement yet.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm hearing it's canceled (to no one's surprise), but there hasn't been an official announcement yet.

 

Per Buzzfeed, The Messengers is toast.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/2015-tv-renewals-cancellations-bubble#.sm9JoWw2V

 

Confirmed by TvBytheNumbers

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/05/07/hart-of-dixie-canceled-by-the-cw-after-4-seasons/400427/

Edited May 7, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[bluebonnet]

Wow, that happened way faster than i thought it would.  I sort of hoped there would be improvement, but the next episodes must be deeply horrible.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

I wonder if they are going to air the remaining episodes, or just say screw it and air reruns of something else in its place.

[Meredith Quill]

As the show has been cancelled, I have collapsed the episode topics into here. If/when the remaining episodes air, they can be discussed in here too.

 

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Snarkette]

I feel deeply gratified and relieved by this cancellation for some reason. See y'all for Dominion Season 2!

[ottoDbusdriver]

I feel deeply gratified and relieved by this cancellation for some reason.

 

 

Me too.  

 

I tuned back in just to see how bad things get post-cancellation.

 

How does Allen just keep showing up wherever Vera is ?  And he just blows it off with "I have my ways".  Is Lucifer telling him ?

 

And Lucifer is Peter's court-appointed attorney -- that is a whole other case of WTF ?  Only later when Rose describes Lucifer to Peter do they figure that out.

 

We also find out that Peter previously tried to kill himself via flashback, bounced around foster homes all his life, and was about to kill himself in his jail cell.  And Joshua used to be a full blown drug addict when he talks to his sister.

 

Joshua's visions continue to get weirder -- and his explanations are even more vague.

 

All of Team Angelwings don't have full control of their powers all the time -- why exactly ?  Oh that's right, plot convenience.  But apparently a sense of urgency helps trigger them.  Whatever.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why that guy shot Rose the universal translator/walking talking Endtimes Wikipedia entry/Exposition Angel 7 years ago.  How did that guy know to shoot her ? And who was that guy that shot her ?

 

The scene of Vera going through that wall was terrible, and then her body just slumped to the floor all casual -- she would have cracked her head on the floor.   After confronted by a hotel employe, Vera pulls the "Can't a girl power nap in peace" excuse -- not if you aren't an employee in the employees only area of the hotel during a summit with high security.

 

This Energy Summit has the worst security -- all these Messengers are just walking the aisles during the speeches, and the assassin can be easily seen by anyone.  Erin even gets nabbed by the private security guy for impersonating an attendee, but she gets let go after the assassination attempt because impersonating someone during an assassination attempt isn't suspicious at all.

 

The scene with prison transfer short bus was stupid.  Rose is busy honking her car horn as she chases the bus (where did Rose get a car from, she's been in a coma for 7 years ?) as Peter hulks out, smashes the security door to the front of the bus knocking out the driver that causes the prison short bus to careen off the road (and apparently change locations as the bus initially leaves the road near some trees but when the bus rolls over there are no trees nearby) as Rose gets out of her car and chases the after the bus to free Peter.  So now Peter is both an accused murderer and escaped from custody -- but I'm sure the police won't be looking for him.

 

Vera yelling at the senator as she was spirit walking was also just plain stupid -- plus, where was her body slumped this time ?

 

And now I can see why this was canceled -- the Senator takes a drink from her water glass (the cue to the assassin to kill the Prime Minister) and her eyes turn red, red wings appear and an energy wave blasts outwards from her just like the meteor impact causing all the Messengers pupils to dilate once again (but surprisingly doesn't kill them like the first wave from the meteor).  Peter smashes into the building, jiggles the arm of the assassin who misses the Prime Minister but hits the water glass held by the Senator directly in front of her chest and yet somehow manages to shoot the Senator in the arm.  Uh, no, I don't think so, that bullet should have killed the Senator.  Apparently no one grabbed the assassin after the shot was fired.

 

If the Senator is now one of the 4 horsemen, how come she appears as an evil angel and not riding an evil horse ?  Just saying. Even though the assassination didn't work, the Senator still became one of Lucifer's horsemen and apparently opened up the first of the seven seals (how exactly ?) because she made the choice to kill him even if she didn't succeed (WTF ? And thanks to the Exposition angel for clearing that up).  And for good measure she kills her chief of staff at Lucifer's request in her limo (boy is it badly acted) and Lucifer is her limo driver/wet work cleaner guy. 

 

And it turns out that random homeless woman named Eliza from outside the bar last episode (that Peter was fixated) on is also hanging out near the parking lot where the Senator kills her chief of staff.  So she is most likely the remaining member to Team Angelwings to come forward.  And she has a scrapbook of all of Team Angelwings, and she has an abacus to keep score.  WTF ?

 

You can certainly see how and why the show was canceled after 3 episodes -- I suspect it is only downhill from here.

[sjohnson]

The show was canceled quickly because very few people ever tuned in. The ratings aren't slumping because the show is bad. To my eye, it's no worse than The 100's first episodes were. 

 

That said, it's not very good because angels and apocalypse aren't very good materials to work with, I think. 

 

Still to be fair, having an Official Exposition Angel is truly a paragon of efficient writing.

[bluebonnet]

I think as bad as The 100 was to start, it still had a lot of potential.  There was still some decent dialogue and compelling characters.  When the teens on the ground became too annoying, we'd get to switch off to the Ark where the adults had some intrigue going on.  This show is dumb and terrible with everything.   It doesn't help that they've put zero refreshing spin on angels and demons.  I thought I might stick with it until the end but I ended up deleting this episode halfway through.  Just got so sick of Exposition angel telling and retelling everything we had already seen and heard.  Everything on this show is like Screenwriting 101: What Not to Do.  

[Free]

The 100 started off clunky before finding its footing, but it had way more potential and had more interesting characters than this.

 

The Messengers' problem stems from it being just a bunch of contrived walking plot points (cliched science character, cliched religious character, etc.) following around exposition Angel.  The show also made the huge mistake at the start at not getting us situated with the characters and just dumped in a scene after just introducing them.

 

The dialogue is just them spouting off exposition at each other and that's never a good thing when a movie or show tries to do that.

[Crim]

This latest episode was horrible; even knowing it was cancelled I can't watch any more of it. Why a Native American ceremony? Why? Did the show runners watch The Prophecy? (The 1995 one, with Christopher Walken.) If so, they should have picked better things to rip off, like how not to be so dull and how to have an antagonist that needs minions for practical things, yet is still creepy and menacing.

 

This show is so boring that it has a teenage girl starting to hook up with an angel and treats it as the usual teenage romance. It's pathetic.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Crim

[ottoDbusdriver]

This latest episode was horrible; even knowing it was cancelled I can't watch any more of it. Why a Native American ceremony?

 

Not to mention the writers appearing to make it appear that the so-called 'Horseman of Pestilence' is a hacker releasing a computer virus (because actual pestilence, you know, like a widespread disease or plague would cost way too much in CGI and makeup effects to pull off, otherwise it should be known as the 'Horseman of Hacking the Gibson' or some other such bullshit) that steal millions of dollars from rich people -- which means he could be located anywhere in the world, but more than likely will be working out of his basement somewhere conveniently near Houston.  And WTF was with the shape-shifter in Hong Kong ?  Because I have a feeling she/he is the Messengers equivalent of Maya and Alejandro from Heroes -- will take days to travel all the way to Houston only to die off quickly once he/she gets there.

Edited May 21, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Free]

 

If so, they should have picked better things to rip off, like how not to be so dull and how to have an antagonist that needs minions for practical things, yet is still creepy and menacing.

 

Tbh, I don't really find him that threatening to begin with and since he hasn't changed his appearance so far halfway into the season, surely the Messengers would've caught on by now.

 

 

And WTF was with the shape-shifter in Hong Kong ?  Because I have a feeling she/he is the Messengers equivalent of Maya and Alejandro from Heroes -- will take days to travel all the way to Houston only to die off quickly once he/she gets there.

 

Possibly the new angel?  Idk, that's what I'm getting from the promo.

[Crim]

Tbh, I don't really find him that threatening to begin with and since he hasn't changed his appearance so far halfway into the season, surely the Messengers would've caught on by now.

Nobody would. That was my point. :)  That if they really ripped off the Native American thing from The Prophecy, they should have watched it more closely for what worked, for example the antagonists. One of them needs humans to drive him around, for example, but the way that is done is awesomely creepy and twisted and sad (he brings back the newly dead in a sort of suspended undead state, in which their bodies still decay, and offers them death at the end of their service) - meanwhile The Devil in this crap show just talks and talks to manipulate everyone in the most obvious and stupid way possible and still fails more often than not.

 

That, for me, is the silliest part of the show: the Horsemen need to break their seal, which involves The Devil who seemingly abides to a ton of rules (i.e. just talking humans into doing stuff), while the angels have these freebie supernatural powers from the very start, including the power of exposition, the visions, and direct signs when they still can't figure out what to do. So we know they can't figure it out... because there would be no drama if they did.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Crim

[Free]

Nobody would. That was my point. :)  That if they really ripped off the Native American thing from The Prophecy, they should have watched it more closely for what worked, for example the antagonists. One of them needs humans to drive him around, for example, but the way that is done is awesomely creepy and twisted and sad (he brings back the newly dead in a sort of suspended undead state, in which their bodies still decay, and offers them death at the end of their service) - meanwhile The Devil in this crap show just talks and talks to manipulate everyone in the most obvious and stupid way possible and still fails more often than not.

 

That, for me, is the silliest part of the show: the Horsemen need to break their seal, which involves The Devil who seemingly abides to a ton of rules (i.e. just talking humans into doing stuff), while the angels have these freebie supernatural powers from the very start, including the power of exposition, the visions, and direct signs when they still can't figure out what to do. So we know they can't figure it out... because there would be no drama if they did.

 

That's what makes it feel so uneven, he should be way more powerful, but instead it's the Messengers getting plot devices power ups whenever it's convenient so they should be winning easily instead of being plot dumb and letting the villains get away with it.

 

Also, we never got to know these characters as characters, they were just thrown into the plot and since then it's plot exposition central with a plot exposition angel to boot telling them what to do.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Free

[ottoDbusdriver]

Seriously, the shapeshifter angel has been on the show for about 30 seconds and already has not one but two flashbacks.  How did she know that she could find any relations to the hacker at a night club in Houston, a ticket that she randomly stole from some guy at the Hong Kong airport ?  And apparently not only can she shapeshift, but so do her clothes.  Whatever.

 

And big surprise -- the hacker/2nd horseman just happens to be living near Houston.  What are the odds ? </sarcasm>

 

Could Allan please stop trying to bang Vera ?  It bugs.  And the Senator/Horseman of War has possession of the meteor aka Operation Genesis, and they kill all the scientists that were working on it (getting rid of all the loose ends).

 

So, if the Horseman of Pestilence can be a hacker releasing a computer virus, does that mean the Horseman of Famine will cause a shortage of burrito fixins and the Horseman of Death will turn out to be Mark Zuckerberg threatening to delete everyone's Facebook and Instagram accounts (a virtual death ?).  This show is so stupid, it makes about as much sense.

 

Lucifer really gets around -- he was in HK as the cashier in the casino, met shapeshifter angel on the street, and was her cab driver at the end of the episode.  So why does he need anyone to do his dirty work when he can be anywhere at any time -- and what happens to the actual people that he replaces ?  Do they just disappear into the aether until Lucifer is done occupying their spot in life -- or does he just kill them all ?

 

Erin the healing angel has a big bruise on her chest that gets bigger as she continues to use her power.  Because of course it does.

[Free]

 

Seriously, the shapeshifter angel has been on the show for about 30 seconds and already has not one but two flashbacks.

 

Sadly, that's more than our main plot devices has gotten in about halfway through the series/season.

 

 

Lucifer really gets around -- he was in HK as the cashier in the casino, met shapeshifter angel on the street, and was her cab driver at the end of the episode.  So why does he need anyone to do his dirty work when he can be anywhere at any time -- and what happens to the actual people that he replaces ?  Do they just disappear into the aether until Lucifer is done occupying their spot in life -- or does he just kill them all ?

 

Even the new shiftshaper can do more than him and she's just been introduced.

 

It just lacks any sort of punch that would make this series stand out, the characters are just bland plot devices with nothing unique about the characters (we got a scientist, we got a preacher, we got a criminal who's redeeming himself, etc.).  Even the Horsemen themselves so far don't feel special like they should've been.

 

Wow, this last episode highlighted a further problem, the villain is completely ineffectual in every way, while the angels are using their super powers, he does nothing but trade the same barbs with the plot exposition angel leader and make 'tempts' people the same way over and over again.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Free

[Liser78]

I just discovered this show and was totally enjoying it. That was quick with the cancellation, especially for CW. 

[Dot Com]

They've aired like three episodes since they cancelled it. If they're going to air the remaining episodes anyway then they should wait to cancel it. The ratings might get better over time.

[ottoDbusdriver]

 Wow, that was a pretty crappy episode.  

 

Team Angelwings manages to stop the second horseman from releasing the computer virus and everyone parties like it's 1999 since they have 'stopped the Rapture', but then Lucifer bails the guy out of jail in order to continue the process.  Did no one on Team Angelwings even consider that might happen ?  Even if they killed the 2nd horseman, wouldn't Lucifer just pick someone else ?  It seems incredibly stupid that they all though it was over

 

Was Shapeshifter Angel not aware that her cab driver was Lucifer -- even though she knew him from Hong Kong ?  Here's a curious question -- how would Sharpeshifter Angel know what the 2nd horseman's dead mother sounded like or even know what to say to the son ?  Is that part of her powers too ?

 

The 2nd horseman's plan was to exact revenge on the HMO/health insurance provider that he blames for his mother's death by killing all the people hooked up to life support machines in the facilities of the company (like Stuxnet, but for life support equipment).  Sure it might give the insurance company a lot of lawsuits and some bad PR, but killing sick people who were getting care and causing pain to their families (just like he experienced) seems like a pretty shitty idea.  Why didn't he have a plan to kill all the employees off the insurance company (at least the ones who made the decision to cut off his mother's care) or maybe the board members and CEO (who profited from that decision) and everyone who was an investor in the company (who also profited from the decision to kill his mother) -- because the other patients never did anything to his mother ?

 

And would someone tell the writer's in Hollywood that's not how sprinkler systems work ?  You just can't hold a flame under one sprinkler head and set off all the sprinklers in a room.

[Free]

They've aired like three episodes since they cancelled it. If they're going to air the remaining episodes anyway then they should wait to cancel it. The ratings might get better over time.

 

They just didn't care about it, they dumped it in 1 of the worst spots and premiered it so late.

[Free]

 

Team Angelwings manages to stop the second horseman from releasing the computer virus and everyone parties like it's 1999 since they have 'stopped the Rapture', but then Lucifer bails the guy out of jail in order to continue the process.  Did no one on Team Angelwings even consider that might happen ?  Even if they killed the 2nd horseman, wouldn't Lucifer just pick someone else ?  It seems incredibly stupid that they all though it was over

 

It is stupid, did they forget that there are 4 Horsemen?  But it also just adds to the lack of tension/danger of the impending apocalypse, because the characters don't treat it as such, mostly, they just hang around at The Last Supper and wait for the next plot point/vision or whatever.

 

 

Was Shapeshifter Angel not aware that her cab driver was Lucifer -- even though she knew him from Hong Kong ?  Here's a curious question -- how would Sharpeshifter Angel know what the 2nd horseman's dead mother sounded like or even know what to say to the son ?  Is that part of her powers too ?

 

That's called the power of contrived plot convenience and yes, she should've been aware of Lucifer, he doesn't change his appearance at all.

 

 

because the other patients never did anything to his mother ?

 

Poorly defined character motivation and this is supposed to be 1 of the Horsemen?  Talk about a letdown but that seems to be a pattern with this show.

 

Oh and let's not forget the pointless and random subplot of Joshua's ex literally crashing into the series.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Free

[babs1226]

I stumbled across this show online yesterday, and decided to give it a shot.  I enjoyed it so much I binge watched all 7 episodes.  I don't watch fictional television for realism, so I have no expectation that everything will conform exactly to real life and logic.  My only annoyance was that the foreclosed house went from having no electricity to having it with no explanation, but hey, it is fiction.  I was sad when the first thing I read was that it has been cancelled.  Sadder still is that it seems only hate-watchers have been posting.  I'll have to check out what people are saying on FB.  I'm sure there are a few others that like the show.

[Dot Com]

shapeshifterAngel noticed who it was. She told him that he was wearing a lousy disguise so he took his hat and sunglasses (?) off. I think he then made some sort of comment about not being as good at disguises as she was.

[Free]

I think he then made some sort of comment about not being as good at disguises as she was.

 

Wow, not even the characters themselves can take him seriously as a credible threat and this is supposed to be out antagonist for the series along with the Horsemen (who have also been hugely disappointing so far).  He's laughable in every scene he's in when he's trying to threaten other people or trade barbs with the angels.  It's like a cheesy telenovela only they tried to take it too seriously and it completely backfires on the show.  Even the Horsemen turned against him and they're absolutely right, he is obsolete in this series.  I think my main problem is that he's cheesy like he's in a telenovela, but it doesn't work in this series that tries to take itself way too seriously so you can see an awkward clash between him and the other bland cliched plot devices (I mean characters0.

 

ETA: So the Messengers celebrated over temporarily stopping a Horseman (even though there are others out there and there's still an impending apocalyspe) and they find out that he broke the seal anyway off screen making the whole climax of them trying to appeal to him completely pointless since he changed his mind off screen.  Stupid, all of them.

 

Then for some reason everyone except for the scientist character starts to act like everything is hopeless (neglecting the fact that there are still other horsemen to try and stop).  It's one of those cheesy 'All is lost', but then they come together in the end by cheesy contrivance.

 

As for the plot twist spoiler in the promo, that would've only worked if the character was fleshed out instead of being a bland plot device telling everyone else what to do through contrived exposition this whole time.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Free

[ottoDbusdriver]

Ugggh.  This just continues to get worse -- turns out while Team Angelwings was celebrating the end of the Apocalypse and moving on with their lives when boom, the recently bailed-out Horseman of Pestilence released his vengeance by killing a couple of hundred people at the insurance company that screwed over his mom.  That's it !  A couple of hundred people -- more people are killed by the measles every year.  Seems pretty underwhelming for a vendetta co-sponsored by Lucifer himself.

 

And even though they know that the 2nd Horseman has done his thing, they all say fuck it and start making plans for the pending apocalypse -- Raul and Erin and Amy are headed for Alaska, Raul passes Nadia off to her mother (that Raul had an affair with), Vera is meeting with her son Michael's baby daddy, Joshua goes on a drug and alcohol fuelled bender before taking over his daddy's church (with the help of a lawyer) but he changes his mind once he gets on stage, TeenHulk and Shapeshifter Angel go on a road trip to find TeenHulk's real parents, and Exposition Angel heads off to Seattle to reconnect with her family.  I wish I was making all that up.

 

Of all the characters in this show, Nadia is the one that gets the flashback.  WTF ?  Turns out that Raul is Nadia's father -- because, why not ?  Nadia goes "missing" only for Raul to suddenly remember that Nadia started work at a new job today. FFS.

 

Turns out TeenHulk's mom was an institutionalized unwed teenage mom from a very religious family who hung herself not long after Teenhulk was born and taken away from her.

 

If Lucifer has been visiting people on Earth for years -- like the woman that received Vera's child Michael from Lucifer 7 years ago -- why did he need to return in a meteor from space and in turn create Team Angelwings ?  And for good measure, the husband that is raising Vera's child for Lucifer is also the lawyer trying to get Joshua back to leading the church.  FFS.  This is all a little too conveniently interconnected.

 

And it turns out that a new Team Angelwings is formed every generation as a test for humanity.  Joshua finds this out from the homeless woman that Peter/Teenhulk previously encountered who just happens to be in the supermarket where Nadia works (where all of Team Angelwings end up congregating together "accidentally") and gives Joshua a pep talk since she used to have the same gift of prophecy as Joshua does.   And with all of Team Angelwings back together, except for Exposition Angel, they are ready to take on the next Horseman who is apparently two people (two brothers) that run a family farm brand by the name of Plowman (so obviously the Horseman of Famine).

 

So does a meteor bearing Lucifer crash down every 20 years or so -- because I would suspect that is something that would make the papers.  And how does Lucifer leave Earth to get back into a new meteor ?

 

Has it ever been a good idea to backtalk Lucifer ?  I don't think the first 2 horsemen understand that concept when they complain that he has basically fucked up the 6 previous Rapture attempts (only six, but the homeless messenger said it happens every generation), and don't need him anymore.  WTF ?  Is every team of messengers American ?

[Free]

 

Has it ever been a good idea to backtalk Lucifer ?  I don't think the first 2 horsemen understand that concept when they complain that he has basically fucked up the 6 previous Rapture attempts (only six, but the homeless messenger said it happens every generation), and don't need him anymore.  WTF ?  Is every team of messengers American ?

 

And dumb by the looks of things, but otoh I can see why no one can take him seriously.  Still it's just all around stupid.

 

 

And even though they know that the 2nd Horseman has done his thing, they all say fuck it and start making plans for the pending apocalypse

 

Yup, they did the 'all hope is lost' bs routine, even though there are 2 more Horsemen to find and an apocalypse to try and stop, which took them an entire episode to figure out with all their pointless side drama.

 

 

I wish I was making all that up.

 

The writers already did, none of this makes any sense.

 

 

Ugggh.  This just continues to get worse -- turns out while Team Angelwings was celebrating the end of the Apocalypse and moving on with their lives when boom, the recently bailed-out Horseman of Pestilence released his vengeance by killing a couple of hundred people at the insurance company that screwed over his mom.  That's it !  A couple of hundred people -- more people are killed by the measles every year.  Seems pretty underwhelming for a vendetta co-sponsored by Lucifer himself.

 

Yup and it happened off screen after that whole pointless climax in the last episode, they celebrate completely forgetting about the remaining Horsemen and the impending apocalypse which they didn't even stop at that point, they only temporarily delayed a Horsemen.  Oh and the villains are still a joke.

[Dot Com]

Can't remember everyone's names. The teenage boy with superstrength. When the guy at the sanitarium said that his mother was from a very religious family did anyone else expect that she or the father would be a relative of Joshua's?

[Free]

Can't remember everyone's names. The teenage boy with superstrength. When the guy at the sanitarium said that his mother was from a very religious family did anyone else expect that she or the father would be a relative of Joshua's?

 

I just give them nicknames since it's easier, that and they're all just bland plot devices.

 

ETA: So the Messengers gets an old plot device angel as a replacement, the Devil blathers on and on and then tells his ridiculous plan that was bound to fail and makes no sense at all when explained no matter whose side he's supposedly on, Joshua is an idiot after falling for an obvious trap, and they're all struggling because they're all incompetent.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Free

[ottoDbusdriver]

All the members of Team Angelwings were in the same hospital in Houston on April 6, 2008.  Even though not all of them are from Houston.  Because why not ?  The stupid, it burns.

 

After trapping some of the messengers in 'The Last Supper' (ugggh), Lucifer tells them that Rose is not who she says she is.  Exposition Angel gets a flashback to her time as a combat medic in the Middle East -- and her big sin is that she helped a badly injured soldier die.  And then became an angel of mercy for terminal patients, but then cranked up the crazy and murdered a patient to steal a wedding ring.  And Exposition Angel is in fact the Angel of Death.  WTF ? 

 

Turns out its all true.  Rose kills Joshua, and Lucifer promises to resurrect him from the dead if they tell him who the next horseman is. So, they were off on the number of Horsemen encountered so far, and they were wrong about the number of seals broken -- who's keeping track of this shit ?  Because someone should be.

 

I'm still unclear on why Lucifer would want to kill one of the Horseman, Rose, in the first place.  Because that seems counterproductive to his endgame.

 

I suspect that this is all a long con by Lucifer.  You know, because he's the Devil.

 

No wonder this show was canceled.  What a hot mess.

Edited June 13, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Free]

 

After trapping some of the messengers in 'The Last Supper' (ugggh), Lucifer tells them that Rose is not who she says she is.  Exposition Angel gets a flashback to her time as a combat medic in the Middle East -- and her big sin is that she helped a badly injured soldier die.  And then became an angel of mercy for terminal patients, but then cranked up the crazy and murdered a patient to steal a wedding ring.  And Exposition Angel is in fact the Angel of Death.  WTF ?

 

Yup ridiculous motivation narrated by the Devil himself.

 

 

Turns out its all true.  Rose kills Joshua, and Lucifer promises to resurrect him from the dead if they tell him who the next horseman is. So, they were off on the number of Horsemen encountered so far, and they were wrong about the number of seals broken -- who's keeping track of this shit ?  Because someone should be.

 

Clearly no one, remember, they were celebrating before they dealt with all the Horsemen and actually stopping the Apocalypse and that's also taking into account that the Horsemen would eventually break his seal, which he later did.

 

 

I'm still unclear on why Lucifer would want to kill one of the Horseman, Rose, in the first place.  Because that seems counterproductive to his endgame.

 

I suspect that this is all a long con by Lucifer.  You know, because he's the Devil.

 

It is, his actions just don't make any sense either way no matter what side he's supposedly on.

 

 

All the members of Team Angelwings were in the same hospital in Houston on April 6, 2008.  Even though not all of them are from Houston.  Because why not ?  The stupid, it burns.

 

Because of the stupid 'they're all connected' bs they tried to shoehorn into this terribly conceived backstory which contradicts some of the previous episodes.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Free

[Dot Com]

Well she didn't kill Her to steal the wedding ring. She killed the wife of the Man she was having an affair with because he broke up with her. Tgen she stole the woman's ring.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Dot Com

[Latverian Diplomat]

I'm still unclear on why Lucifer would want to kill one of the Horseman, Rose, in the first place.  Because that seems counterproductive to his endgame.

 

He said he went to her when she first became a horseman, and she refused to work with him. Apparently, this was a first, and he broke the "rules" by going after her for that.

 

As to endgame, his "game" is to play the Messengers and Horsemen against each other. He wants the Horsemen to do damage and create a lot of chaos and grief, but he wants the Messengers to ultimately win every time, but the Apocalypse means his fun time is over. 

 

This was a better twist than I was expecting from this show. But it was done much better in Buffy the Vampire Slayer with

the conflict between Spike and Angel at the end of season 2

.

 

I didn't care for "euthanasia is the slippery slope" thing but at least it wasn't the act that broke the seal.

 

Also, this crop of Messengers not feeling the first seal break is way too convenient.

 

It's possible that Amy is the missing Messenger (but having a 2nd vision Angel seems like a very convenient spare part). If so, maybe they wouldn't have felt the first seal break because she wasn't born yet. And she's with them now, so why aren't they complete?

[Dot Com]

Wasn't Amy in a coma for a little while? Maybe her spirit went on a little walkabout to heaven. As a result she's gained a psychic gift of sorts. Wouldn't be the first time that's been done on TV/movies.

[jhlipton]

The one thing, the single most important thing, that the Devil must be -- must absolutely be -- is charismatic.  And this dude just... isn't.  Blah.

[Free]

 

Also, this crop of Messengers not feeling the first seal break is way too convenient.

 

It's possible that Amy is the missing Messenger (but having a 2nd vision Angel seems like a very convenient spare part). If so, maybe they wouldn't have felt the first seal break because she wasn't born yet. And she's with them now, so why aren't they complete?

 

It is, but it's par for the course at this point with all the conveniences.

 

 

The one thing, the single most important thing, that the Devil must be -- must absolutely be -- is charismatic.  And this dude just... isn't.  Blah.

 

I know, the actor tries to be with lines like "I'm the Devil", but it just comes off flat in the execution and it certainly doesn't help that he's with a bunch of bland characters/plot devices on a show that tries way too hard to take itself too seriously.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I know, the actor tries to be with lines like "I'm the Devil", but it just comes off flat in the execution and it certainly doesn't help that he's with a bunch of bland characters/plot devices on a show that tries way too hard to take itself too seriously.

 

Or the fact the actor's accent wanders all over the place -- sometimes it sounds like American English, sometimes it sounds German-accented English.

[Free]

Or the fact the actor's accent wanders all over the place -- sometimes it sounds like American English, sometimes it sounds German-accented English.

 

Or, I really didn't know what it was supposed to be, especially since he went on and on narrating Rose's ridiculous backstory.  XD.

[jhlipton]

I know, the actor tries to be with lines like "I'm the Devil", but it just comes off flat in the execution and it certainly doesn't help that he's with a bunch of bland characters/plot devices on a show that tries way too hard to take itself too seriously.

 

At this point, I think calling the characters "bland" is giving them too much credit.  The scenes at the bar should have been crackling with tension ("She's a what to the who, now?"), instead of flopping to the floor like the goldfish in Faith No More's Epic.

[Free]

At this point, I think calling the characters "bland" is giving them too much credit.  The scenes at the bar should have been crackling with tension ("She's a what to the who, now?"), instead of flopping to the floor like the goldfish in Faith No More's Epic.

 

I used bland because I really don't know how to describe these cliched plot devices but everything is so underwhelming.

 

It's like what you said, there's no tension whatsoever, not when the apocalypse is almost here, not when the Horsemen have broken their seals or the Devil plotting, etc.

 

ETA: So the characters split off with their own contrived subplots, 3 of them go to a farm and thwart a conniving cartoon villain who may as well had a villain name tag on him, Vera goes off on an obvious trap, and the Horsemen are laughably bad trying to be ott villains but are constained by a series that tries to take all this way too seriously, and then finally get to the brothers (1 of which is the last Horsemen).  I guess we're supposed to care about which brother it is but all the Horsemen act the same way so it doesn't matter who in the end.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Free

[ottoDbusdriver]

Messengers on a train -- what a awesome idea </sarcasm>.

 

And there just happens to be a bake sale alongside the train station in Albuquerque that has a flag of a local mascot that was in Amy's drawings -- because Amy has visions and invisible friends now.  WTF ?

 

Why would the lawyer from two episodes ago that was helping Joshua try to get his church back -- who also had Vera's child -- commute from Albuquerque to Houston ?  That makes no sense.

 

Are all the Messengers going to have side effects from the use of their powers -- first Erin and her splotch on her chest that apparently cleared up, and now Shapeshifter is having memory issues.

 

Vera and Allan get kidnapped by some guys that have been following them since Houston. And the cliffhanger is that Vera is trapped in the trunk of a car about to be crushed in a wrecking yard as Allen is taken away in a separate vehicle.  Who writes this ?

 

How did Jamie Bamber ever get involved in this terrible series ? 

 

The Plowman Brothers idea is to seed clouds using drones and calling it SmartRain. Sure, why not ?

 

Why wasn't Exposition Angel/Horsemen of Death with the other two horsemen doing evil shit with the meteor ?  The unknown Genesis Element blows up real good -- why don't they just call it evilium ?

 

Shapeshifter gets all her money back -- did she seriously have a bank balance n amount ending in 666 ?  Because that's really cheesy, even for Lucifer.

[Free]

 

Why wasn't Exposition Angel/Horsemen of Death with the other two horsemen doing evil shit with the meteor ?  The unknown Genesis Element blows up real good -- why don't they just call it evilium ?

 

Maybe one of the cartoons already took that name and they wanted to hit people over the head with another blatant reference.

 

 

Shapeshifter gets all her money back -- did she seriously have a bank balance n amount ending in 666 ?  Because that's really cheesy, even for Lucifer.

 

This series likes to beat us over the head with the blatant references: The Last Supper, etc.

 

 

Vera and Allan get kidnapped by some guys that have been following them since Houston. And the cliffhanger is that Vera is trapped in the trunk of a car about to be crushed in a wrecking yard as Allen is taken away in a separate vehicle.  Who writes this ?

 

The villains all feel so cartoony, we have Horsemen and their evil plans with the meteor stuff and they act like they're in some cheesy kids film.

 

 

Why would the lawyer from two episodes ago that was helping Joshua try to get his church back -- who also had Vera's child -- commute from Albuquerque to Houston ?  That makes no sense.

 

More contrived coincidences you see, it wasn't enough that you shove them all together during that awful exposition dump in the last episode.

[gryphon]

Yeah, the show is contrived and silly but I like Allan and I do like  the druggiepreacherguy.

Vera is getting way too whiny for me.

I hope the shapeshifter starts to remember some of her con ways eventually--I like her being kind of sneaky. But I hope she doesn't start doing stuff with the devil. 

 

 Allan did make me laugh after Vera explained everything to him and he said....(pause)  "That. Is. AWESOME." or something to that effect.  I just liked how he was so genuinely into believing the whole shebang.   

[Amelie06]

This show is awful! Just awful. The episode where the Devil just has story time was ridiculous. Why did he take so long to come out with the pertinent info? It's like he knew he was on a tv show and had to draw it out. Lead with Rose is a demon bitch.

 

I'm annoyed by this revelation that Rose is a secret Horseman. I get it, one of those things wasn't like the others. It was clear that she wasn't going to be the love interest for the two adult male Angels, thus making her expendable. I will say that the actress was 100% more interesting when she got to be evil, instead of the dull Exposition Angel. She is actual quite pretty and has multiple facial expressions!

 

The Devil's plan makes no sense. If he hadn't shown up like a creepy creep who creeps, he would have had a much better chance of working with Angels. I still don't understand why he was helping the Horsemen become Horsemen. It all seems to be a lot of work. Why go through making them, just to then aide in tearing them down? It's not like there isn't unspeakable evil in the world already.

 

This show would be so much better if the Horsemen weren't evil. They weren't evil in the Bible. I thought that they were just a necessary part of the Apocalypse. I'd prefer if they were zealots of a kind, intent on going through with this because they believed it was God's will. So much more interesting than mustache twirling villains.