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The Flash and Other Superheroes

Trini

By Trini
in The Flash

Lady Calypso
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This thread will be open for everyone to come discuss non-spoiler events related to the Crisis that have aired in the other Arrowverse shows that pertain to The Flash. Note that this isn't a replacement thread to openly discuss all of the Arrowverse shows; discussions should remain about The Flash. Anything spoiler related must be taken to our official Crisis thread. Thanks!

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FurryFury
FurryFury

So, continuing with the comparisons - why, exactly, couldn't The Flash give Iris & Mason the storyline that Karen and the reporter have on DD? I mean, I actually like their investigation and their

Trini
Trini

It's NewFlash vs. 90s Flash in this mashup:  

Karlophe
Karlophe

Gentlemen, try as you might, you cannot touch the emotion of GG and JWS's Season 1 prison chats. It is futile. Now kindly remove your hands from the glass, and stop trying. That is all.

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Trini

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(edited)

So three Arrow-verse shows each lost actors from their regular casts going into this season; each situation was slightly different, and they ended up using three different approaches in the narratives to address the changes. (*Spoilers ahead*)

  • Batwoman: Lead actress Ruby Rose decided not to return for Season 2 after filming was done for Season 1. This was an unplanned exit. Writers decided to 'disappear' Kate Kane and create a new character, Ryan Wilder, to take over the mantle of Batwoman and the lead role in Season 2. I'd say this was the most disruptive option; however, it has given the show an opportunity to do a fresh perspective on the characters and Gotham.
  • Black Lightning: China Anne McClain decided to leave the show for personal reasons, and apparently the writers knew this going into Season 4. The show decided to keep her (supporting) character and recast the role with a new actress. China was there in the first few episodes of the season as the show set up a reason for the character's change in appearance with the new actress. The change was addressed in the narrative, while reinforcing that it was the same character. I think this was probably the best option to keep the character in the show.
  • The Flash: Hartley Sayer was fired after filming was done for Season 6 - however, production had been shut down early and the show had not finished several story arcs, at least one of which involved his (supporting) character, Ralph. Writers decided to cut and condense his story (mostly offscreen) to wrap it up before giving a reason for Ralph to exit. Another actor was used for a couple of scenes, but his face was not shown. So here, the writers choose to cut out the character from the show, and not replace him. (Although, the possibility for him to return (with a new actor) is there.) This was probably the easiest way to address the actor not coming back, but then a character is gone.

I feel like all of these approaches were mostly successful. Each show had different goals with each character, and each character had different levels of importance to each show, so each works for what they needed to do. But I do wonder what Batwoman would have been like if they had just recast Kate Kane with a new actress instead of dropping the character completely; it was a different situation form the other shows in that it was the lead and title character. Black Lightning could have easily written Jen off the show, but I'm glad they wanted to keep her around. Ralph can change his appearance, so it would have been easy to explain him looking different with a new actor, but I guess the writers didn't have strong enough reasons to keep him around.

Edited by Trini
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Trini

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On 3/18/2021 at 1:14 PM, Trini said:

So three Arrow-verse shows each lost actors from their regular casts going into this season; each situation was slightly different, and they ended up using three different approaches in the narratives to address the changes. (*Spoilers ahead*)

  • Batwoman: ...

Well, another plot twist happened with Batwoman after I posted this. But it'll take the rest of the season to see how things play out.

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Trini

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^ It's makes wonder whether DC will make the change in the main Flash comic continuity. They've had an African-American Iris West in TV, the films, animation, and one run of the comics. On the other hand, the same can be said for Catwoman/Selina Kyle, for decades longer, and DC hasn't pursued that change in the comics, so who knows.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)
On 4/25/2021 at 11:55 AM, Trini said:

^ It's makes wonder whether DC will make the change in the main Flash comic continuity. They've had an African-American Iris West in TV, the films, animation, and one run of the comics. On the other hand, the same can be said for Catwoman/Selina Kyle, for decades longer, and DC hasn't pursued that change in the comics, so who knows.

I dont think they will. They even brought back OG Wally in the comics. I think Iris will be like Etta Candy where her race continues to flip flop depending on whose in charge.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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Trini

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A bit more info on the previous crossover plans from Superman & Lois showrunner, Todd Helbing:

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As previously reported, Ramsey will reprise the role of Diggle on Supergirl, The Flash, and Batwoman, and he has a mysterious role on DC's Legends of Tomorrow. According to Helbing, Ramsey's onscreen return was initially conceived as a multi-episode arc across the shows. Unfortunately, the COVID-19 pandemic squashed those plans.

"There was like a five-episode story," Helbing said. "It was pretty cool. And then because of availability and shutdowns and delays, it was impossible to make it make sense [across the shows]. There's still a through-line, but it's not as A-to-B-to-C [as planned]. Ours is kind of a little bit more of a one-off, but thematically it still plays."

(The last line is referring to the S&L episode with Diggle.)

Another quote about crossovers from Helbing:

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When asked which Arrowverse character he would like to have on the show, Helbing explained, "I mean, I obviously have an affection for Flash. You know, I love [The Flash star] Grant [Gustin]. That would be a lot of fun. We'll see! I think just the way that things evolved with our show and unintentionally being separated in a way that we have because of COVID, it really changed so many plans that we had. The further along we got, the harder it was to justify having a big explanation. It just felt so false. So that's really where that came from."

 

And from TVLine's interview with David Ramsey; he isn't directing a Flash episode, and it seems like Diggle appears late in The Flash's season since there doesn't seem to be any info yet.

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[Ramsey:] I am guest-starring in about five different episodes, and I am directing three — but it doesn’t work out that I’m directing all the episodes I’m guest-starring in. On Legends, for example, I’m guest-starring and I’m also directing; same with Supergirl. The third one I’m directing is Superman & Lois, but on a different occasion I will be guest-starring; I won’t be directing the one I’m in.

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To your other point, which is exploring what has happened to Diggle since encountering that green box, that will be explored in the other episodes – on Batwoman, Flash, Superman & Lois, and Supergirl. Whatever was in the box, he refused the invitation of. Let’s put it like that. But there are consequences to that.

<...> So part of Diggle’s story is that the last thing he would want to do right now is receive an invitation from something otherworldly, because he finally has his family back, and he lost his best friend to some otherworldliness. So he refused the invitation of whatever was in the box, but there are consequences to that, and that story, what he will do next, is part of what we tell throughout these four episodes.

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This is a very, very, very preliminary [look at] what happens from this refusal, and what it means to his destiny. We simply get into the preliminary physical effects of his refusal of whatever it was in that box.

 

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Trini

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(edited)

Cross posting crossover info from recent interviews/announcements:

From CW Fall season announcement; looks like characters will crossover to The Flash in a 5-episode "event" when Season 8 premieres.

https://deadline.com/2021/05/the-cw-fall-2021-22-schedule-the-flash-riverdale-unite-4400-batwoman-nancy-drew-1234763694/

https://tvline.com/2021/05/25/the-cw-fall-lineup-2021-riverdale-tuesdays/

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... The network said that the eighth season of The Flash and the sixth season of Riverdale will begin their seasons with special five-episode events that will include a number of superheroes from across the universe appearing in the former.

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 The Flash‘s five-episode event will feature crossovers with TBD Arrowverse characters. “We’re talking about other superheroes from the CWverse that will come together in each [of the] individual episodes,” says CW CEO Mark Pedowitz. “That will not quite be a crossover but it will have a crossover-type feel at the introduction of all these characters.”

 

Cress Williams (Black Lightning) mentioned that he's been approached to appear on The Flash,

https://ew.com/tv/black-lightning-series-finale-cress-williams-arrowverse-future/

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It's funny, I was going to ask you if you were opening to returning as this character on one of the remaining shows. It sounds like you are?

We're moving back to California, and so Vancouver, for short stints, to pop in and do something and pop back out, is not as challenging for me and it doesn't require packing up and moving my whole family. I wouldn't be able to suddenly join another show that's not in California. So there's that logistical thing. But also, you know, I really enjoyed the crossover last year. Specifically, I think me and Grant [Gustin], we're just very like-minded in how we approach the work, and we had really great conversations. One of my favorite scenes of doing this character was the scene between me and him in the library [on the Waverider in "Crisis on Infinite Earths."] So the thought of being able to go back and do an episode here or an episode there? Oh yeah, no, I'm down for that.

Is this anything confirmed yet, or are you still in the talks phase with The Flash?

Just in the talk phase. I was really surprised because it was months ago, I think in the fall, when they first approached me about, "Hey, do you, would you do something with us next season?" And so I initially said yeah, or my representatives said, "Yeah, we're interested, but you know, that's quite a ways away, and who knows where we're going to be at that point." And they just kind of came back saying, "Hey, we'll work around your schedule. We just want to know if you're interested."

Then probably about two months ago, they came back with like, checking again and saying, "We're thinking about a couple of episodes, and these are the months that we're thinking about, and want to just, again, see if you're into it." And basically we said the same thing, like, "Yeah, yeah." So I imagine at some point the next thing will be something a little bit more final.

(I didn't include the quote that discusses events in Black Lightning's finale, but it's at the link.)


And Salim Akil shared scrapped ideas for Flash/Black Lightning crossovers:

https://ew.com/tv/black-lightning-salim-akil-flash-batwoman-crossover/

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Aside from an offscreen assist from the Flash (Grant Gustin), Black Lightning didn't get a chance to take advantage of being on Earth Prime before it ended because the COVID-19 pandemic made crossovers impossible. Which is a shame because Akil and the Black Lightning writers' room had already started brainstorming possible crossovers, in particular with The Flash.

"In our minds, it seemed like the Flash and Black Lightning had really connected [in 'Crisis'] and we certainly wanted to have something with the Flash," Akil told EW in a recent interview about the series finale. "We also thought it would be interesting to, in some way, have Flash and his wife, Iris [Candice Patton], come to dinner and Barry reveals he was raised by a Black family. To finally see some of that come out, we wanted to have someone say like, 'Hey, Barry, go put on some music,' and Barry puts on some of the deepest soul you can find and they think, 'Oh, maybe he's trying to impress us.' So fun things like that and then we [would find] out some deeper things about who he really is. Of course, crime-fighting and that sort of thing."

 

Edited by Trini
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DC Super Hero Girls: EVERY THE FLASH EPISODE! [of the webisodes; he's been in a bunch of the actual series episodes.] :

 

Flash's Best Moments in Justice League Action | @DC Kids:

 

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Quotes from the Stargirl  showrunner, Geoff Johns, about the upcoming mini-crossover with Jay Garrick:

https://ew.com/tv/dcs-stargirl-season-2-geoff-johns-crossover-scary/

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"I grew up watching The Flash TV show, he was my favorite superhero when I was a kid and I was blown away by John Wesley Shipp when he played The Flash and then lucky enough to work with him on The Flash," Johns says. "And when he started playing Jay Garrick and we introduce our version of the Justice Society and we're on Earth-2 like the comics, we're on our own Earth, separate from the rest of these shows, but to have John play Jay Garrick, The Flash, in Stargirl, it connects our universe directly with the other shows and also shows that we're part of a grander universe."

As for what this means for future crossovers within the larger Arrowverse, Johns adds that this appearance "opens up the door to opportunities for us to, eventually, interact with those characters. And that was important. Just like the comics. And when we eventually do it, we'll do it in a hopefully very special Stargirl way."

 

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cambridgeguy

cambridgeguy

(edited)
19 hours ago, Trini said:

I haven't watched the episode yet, but apparently Iris and Central City Citizen were mentioned on Supergirl (Season 6, episode 8, "Welcome back, Kara!"):

Apparently you don't need a bunch of reporters, writers, support staff, etc. to shoot up the rankings.

image.png

Edited by cambridgeguy
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Trini

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20 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Apparently you don't need a bunch of reporters, writers, support staff, etc. to shoot up the rankings.

Well, at least somebody remembered Iris is supposed to be building her media empire. Sucks that it wasn't somebody running the show she's actually in.

But besides that; I appreciated the shout-out because the characters in the different shows should interact or at least mention each other more often.

19 hours ago, Maverick said:

... And that's a really poor showing for CatCo.  

Yeah, there was a subplot about that specifically.

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Trini

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Excerpt about his different versions of The Flash from this JWS interview:

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How is this version of the Flash different from the others you've played before?

I was set up brilliantly for it. It's executive produced and largely written by Geoff Johns, who writes Jay Garrick incredibly and understands what he wants from Jay Garrick, and it was in the scenes. I take everything off the page. Someone said, and I think this is such an interesting comment, that they felt that I was more Jay Garrick on Stargirl, even more than I had been on Flash, because Jay's in his element. Jay's in his Society that he's a founding member of and a leading light of, so there is a sense of classicism. It almost felt like I was playing classic Flash, there was a classic quality to the dialogue, to the principles and ethics that I was standing up for, that it called for a different posture even. I'm not with the League, I'm with the Society. And so that made a difference in my approach to the role.

 

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A 'prelude' comic based on the Flash movie, coming in April 2022:

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In The Flash: The Fastest Man Alive, Barry Allen’s world-saving adventure with the Justice League has driven Central City’s favorite son to become a truly skilled and inspirational Super Hero. But when a new threat by the name of Girder emerges in Central City, Barry turns to Batman for advice on training to master his powers. Under the Dark Knight’s tutelage, The Fastest Man Alive will have to find a way to defeat this metallic menace or be crushed by Girder’s strength!

This 48-page debut issue arrives in participating comic book shops and digital retailers on Tuesday, April 26, 2022, with a collection of the three-issue series available in October.

(more info at the link)

 

 

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Trini

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In whichever universe Naomi is set in, there is also a Star Labs. So far, the only similarity to the Flash version is the name. But it was interesting to see another version in DC TV.

I don't think there'll be more connections than that in Naomi's first season.

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Trini

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They put a photo of Grant Gustin's Flash on the cover of the companion/making of book for The Flash movie: https://shop.dc.com/product/the-flash-visual-encyclopedia-the-scarlet-speedster-from-page-to-screen-hardcover

I wish they would stop using photos from the early seasons because the costume has changed so much since then.

The CW version of the character did influence the movie version, but it's still a little weird to have Gustin on the cover with Miller.

1x1flash.png?v=1676410652

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Trini

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I assume there's going to be some type of cross promotion with the Flash movie and the show -- I doubt WB/DC would pass up such an easy opportunity. It might end up being just an ad with clips from both, though; because Miller is probably not going to be doing much -if any- promotion (because of their scandals), and Grant is barely promoting his own show as it is. But it's possible they might use other cast members in some promos. (Like with Nicole Kang representing Batwoman in some promos for The Batman last year.)

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I tend to believe Grant if he says he's not in the movie, but I'd be really surprised if they don't have a couple references to the Flash TV shows. It's DC tradition to have easter eggs related to other versions of characters, etc.

I hope Grant, Candice, and other Flash actors get a premiere invite, though.
 

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Another snippet of TVLine's interview with Grant Gustin:

'What About The Flash Movie Most Excites Grant Gustin? And Is He In It?'

 

 

 

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Trini

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(edited)

Not that I really want the show and movie tied together (but they kinda already are), but I'm surprised there hasn't been any cross promotion. I mean, one of DC's most popular and most long-running (heh) shows is wrapping up just as the movie version is finally coming out, and they don't take the promotional opportunity?

I know the new WB/DC overlords want to distance themselves from the Arrow-verse and concentrate on a unified movie-verse, but I still find it weird since the TV/Gustin Flash influenced the movie version significantly.

 

-------

Anyway; this article discusses Flash/Supergirl connections, in the comics, the TV shows, and the movie: 'The Strange Shared History of the Flash and Supergirl'

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Both the Barry Allen version of the Flash and the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl helped usher in DC Comics’ Silver Age. An argument can be made that no two heroes exemplify the Atomic Age vibes of DC in the late ’50s/early ’60s more than this pair, except for maybe Green Lantern. But the Flash and Supergirl’s debuts, separated by only 2.5 years, did not result in the two heroes becoming friends or partners. Yet elements outside the story in the comic book pages have always tied them together long before they became allies on TV, or co-stars in films like The Flash. ...

 

Edited by Trini
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baldryanr

baldryanr

2 hours ago, Trini said:

And Keirsey Clemons' Iris West finally appears (at the end) in the final trailer for The Flash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jprhe-cWKGs

Well, given her likely importance to the main story (i.e. being mostly irrelevant) and being relegated to a cameo in the Snyder cut, it shouldn't be surprising that she's been missing.  Based on the previous trailers, descriptions, etc. the following characters are more important: the two Barrys, Kara, Keaton Bats, Barry's parents, Zod.  It would be astonishing if she had more than a few minutes of screentime and/or her role is more than girl Barry likes.

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Trini

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'Ten Latinx Heroes Who Came Before Jaime Reyes'

Quote

3) Vibe

First Appearance: Justice League of America Annual #2 (1984)
Nationality: Colombian-Puerto Rican
Recommended Reading: Justice League of America’s Vibe

In the “Justice League Detroit” era of the ‘80s, the breakdancing Cisco Paco Ramone became the first Latinx member of the Justice League with his unique powers of sonic vibration. These days, he’s better known as a S.T.A.R. Labs technician, part-time superhero, and for many years on television, a founding member of Team Flash.

I like that the article used the probably the best promo pic of Vibe/Carlos:

20230831_DC_News_ListVibe.jpg

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Trini

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The trailer is out for DC's next animated movie, Justice League: Crisis; and I'm already seeing similarities to the CW crossovers and its version(s) of Crisis. Notably, I feel the The Monitor resembles LaMonica Garrett, there are multiple Supermen in one place, and most specifically - Barry & Iris' wedding gets interrupted by superhero shenanigans!

Just thought it was interesting how the show is still influencing DC media.

 

 

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Lady Calypso
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This thread will be open for everyone to come discuss non-spoiler events related to the Crisis that have aired in the other Arrowverse shows that pertain to The Flash. Note that this isn't a replacement thread to openly discuss all of the Arrowverse shows; discussions should remain about The Flash. Anything spoiler related must be taken to our official Crisis thread. Thanks!

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