TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[3pwood]

At 7:30pm PDT, "The Bitter Tea Of General Yen" is scheduled.  An odd movie -- I like it & Stanwyck is wonderful, of course.

[Charlie Baker]

I like it too, 3pwood, and agree it is odd.  I don't know that someone who only knows Capra as the director of It's A Wonderful Life could peg him as director of this one. Nils Asther is good enough to make you ignore his ridiculous casting in the role of Yen.  And yes, a great job by Stanwyck.

[psychoticstate]

The Big Star I don't get is Ruby Keeler.

 

 

For me, it is and always has been Garbo.  I chalk up my confusion as to Garbo translating better to Depression era audiences.  While she's stunning to look at, she just dies on film for me.  I find my eye is always drawn to someone else.  I just find her overrated.

 

aradia22, have you seen Barrymore in "Dinner At Eight"?  I thought he was perfect in a role that had much in common with his own life.

 

 

Dinner at Eight is a fantastic film, great performances all around.  Barrymore definitely did a standout job and I adore Marie Dressler.

I went in not expecting to like the Shearer/Howard R & J

 

 

I have not seen their version of Romeo & Juliet but Norma Shearer is one of my very favorite classic movie actresses.  Watch her in The Divorcee or

Strangers May Kiss -- she's electric.

 

At 7:30pm PDT, "The Bitter Tea Of General Yen" is scheduled.  An odd movie -- I like it & Stanwyck is wonderful, of course.

 

 

I saw this for the first time a few years ago and was floored at not only how odd it was but how great Stanwyck and Asther were together in it.

[3pwood]

psychoticstate, author/critic Mick La Salle is devoted to both Garbo & Shearer.  His book about pre-Code Hollywood, Complicated Women, devotes a chapter to them & he's rhapsodized about them for years in the San Francisco Chronicle.  I prefer Garbo but do agree with you (& Mr. La Salle) that Shearer was at her best in The Divorcee & Strangers May Kiss -- not to mention A Free Soul (1931) with Clark Gable.  

Edited July 18, 2014 by 3pwood

[aradia22]

I like Garbo and Shearer but they're not my favorites. I find Garbo a bit too affected and I just don't really love all of her movies that I've seen. I love Ninotchka. Two Faced Woman was alright but like a pale imitation of Ninotchka. I thought she was a rather bland in Grand Hotel. Camille was just terribly boring and not that different from Mata Hari. I didn't get what was so sexy about Mata Hari and I thought the costumes in both Camille and Mata Hari didn't show off her figure very well. I think it was Camille that put her in dresses that gave her linebacker shoulders. I want to give Queen Christina another chance but it was perhaps the most boring movie I've ever seen. And I half watched her Anna Karenina. I won't blame her as I haven't liked any adaptation of Anna Karenina. 

 

I've seen Shearer in The Divorcee, Marie Antoinette, and A Free Soul. I liked the fire she had in some scenes but I still found her to be affected and to have weak moments. But then those might have been issues in those movies and not her fault. I guess the thing is, except with Marie Antoinette, she wasn't really making the material better. I love Crawford because even when the movie is bland, I think she elevates it.

[Athena]

I've seen a lot of Garbo films. I remember she was a favourite of mine when I went through my classic Hollywood phase back in HS. I'm not even sure why now; her films don't hold up in memory for me. I do remember enjoying the films including Queen Christina and Flesh and the Devil. I think she was a good silent actress because she was so striking. I liked her beauty. She was conventionally attractive, but she was not completely feminine on screen either. Acting wise, she's not that memorable though.

[psychoticstate]

@3pwood, I own Complicated Women and Dangerous Men.  Fantastic books.  Mick LaSalle is a great writer on classic Hollywood.

 

As far as Shearer goes, I think she excelled in the pre-Codes.  I even loved her in Let Us Be Gay, which is relatively formulaic but she's paired with Marie Dressler (win) and she allows herself to be filmed without makeup and relatively dumpy in the beginning.  I also like Smilin' Through - - horrible title and all.  Sad story and a bit predictable in places but a good film.  I am probably one of the few people who likes Norma in The Women.  She has a bit of a tougher time with the "saintly" role of Mary compared to Rosalind Russell's zaniness and Crawford's sultry siren but I never felt that Mary was unapproachable or too saintly.  I liked her and I sympathized with her.

 

@aradia22, I always felt that while Garbo was to be the big star of Grand Hotel, Crawford stole it from under her.  She did a fantastic job and she looked absolutely stunning.  She came across very naturally while Garbo was clearly acting.  What was there about her that drove men crazy?  Why weren't they lining up for Crawford's character, who was outgoing and much sexier in my opinion.  Personally I felt that Garbo was too old to play the character she did.   That said, like @Athena, I do agree that Garbo was exquisite in appearance. 

 

I am an unapologetic Crawford fan.  She is my absolute favorite classic movie actress.  When she's on screen, you simply can't take your eyes off her.  The camera loved her and she lit up on film, even in the worst movies. 

[Charlie Baker]

So nice to see someone else likes Ms. Shearer in The Women, psychoticstate. The role is close to thankless and the character is hard not to deride for contemporary audiences, but I think for the most part Ms. Shearer handles it intelligently and sympathetically. 

[psychoticstate]

Agree, @Charlie Baker!  Another actress may have destroyed what positive aspects there were for Mary Haines but Shearer doesn't play her as a saint or the perfect woman and it works.  Especially with the powerhouse ensemble cast. 

 

In my opinion, the weakest and most thankless character is Peggy (though through no fault of Joan Fontaine).

[Bastet]

So nice to see someone else likes Ms. Shearer in The Women, psychoticstate. The role is close to thankless and the character is hard not to deride for contemporary audiences, but I think for the most part Ms. Shearer handles it intelligently and sympathetically.

 

The film is hard not to deride for me, but I enjoy it for the performances.  (Which, really, is how I watch a lot of female movie characters of that era ... and today's.)  I think Shearer has the hardest role to make watchable, and she does so admirably.

 

Shearer is not a favorite, although I don't dislike her.  Like psychoticstate, I tend to most enjoy her in pre-Code films.

[psychoticstate]

The film is hard not to deride for me, but I enjoy it for the performances.

 

 

Like many older movies, The Women is very dated in some aspects and incredibly witty and sharp in others.  The most insulting , and most dated, part of the film for me is the message that if a woman wants to be in love and be with the man she loves, she has do away with any type of pride.  Men are allowed . . . heck, even expected . . . to "step out" on their wives.  It's just a man being a man or wanting some type of change.  Wives were expected to be understanding, not say a word and wait it out.  As Lucille Watson said "It's a story that comes to most wives." 

 

Another dated aspect is that wives didn't work.  Mary not only didn't work but she had two homes and live-in help.  Peggy's argument with her husband came about because of her working.  Crystal worked because she was single (and on the prowl). Nancy (I think?) was a writer and single.   

[aradia22]

Now I assume you all know this already but my taste runs towards the glamorous... musicals, romances, romantic comedies, fabulous fashion and beautiful actors. But I feel like all this TCM watching is basically approaching the equivalent of a film degree and I'd like to fill in the gaps in my education. Now there's time enough for the "guy" movies. I've got to work my way up to the westerns and war movies. Maybe after I grow fond of the actors I'll be able to sit through them. But in the meantime, I'd like to get a feel for noir. I've watched a handful of movies involving criminals but I wouldn't call any of them a real noir film. So what should I be on the lookout for in the TCM schedule. Bogie/Bacall movies already on the list. I just keep deleting them off the DVR when I run out of space.

[prican58]

aradia, I'd say these few to start..

 

They Live By Night with Farley Granger, Out of The Past with Robert Mitchum, Double Indemnity (Stanwyck and MacMurray), Touch of Evil (Heston and Welles), The Postman Always Rings Twice which I don't find particularly gritty and dark but it is a very good film and you cannot go wrong with John Garfiled. Force of Evil, The Breaking Point ( which is an earlier version of To Have and Have Not) and He Ran All the Way.   

 

I've read that The Big Sleep with Bogie and Bacall is a film noir but doesn't feel like one to me. But I adore this film because it's convoluted, funny and entertaining. 

Kiss Me Deadly with Ralph Meeker. It's interesting to say the least. Feels like a B movie,

 

Have fun and really, try to see as many Garfield films as you can, noir or otherwise. He was great!

Edited July 19, 2014 by prican58

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Kiss Me Deadly with Ralph Meeker. It's interesting to say the least. Feels like a B movie,

Without giving anything away this is a fantastic oddity, a kind of combo noir/scifi movie. 

 

Noir is such a big genre I think you might want to simplify your life by browsing through a couple of books for suggestions.  One of my favorites is Dark City by Eddie Muller:

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-City-Lost-World-Film/dp/0312180764/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=14

Also good is Foster Hirsch's the Dark Side of the Screen:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Dark-Side-Screen-Film/dp/0306817721/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=18

 

I'm recommending these not to put you off, but because as much as I love noir it really is  a genre/fandom that is completely in love with its own bullshit, (e.g., recent shite like the TNT series Mob City or the film Gangster Squad) so poking around the interwebs is likely to put you off the genre entirely.

 

If there is one quintessential noir it's Double Indemnity, as prican58 suggested, which I seem to remember you've already seen.  All prican58's suggestions are excellent.   A not-to-be missed one is Detour, the greatest B-noir ever, with a mind-blowing performance by Ann Savage and a leading man (Tom Neal) whose real life turned out to be a noir.  I'd also recommend Scarlet Street with Edward G. Robinson, and anything else directed by Fritz Lang.  A great one I only first saw a couple of years ago is The Narrow Margin, with an indelible performance by Marie Windsor - a real edge of your seat thriller.

Edited July 19, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[bunnylove]

I love Double Indemnity (Stanwyck/MacMurray).  I remember the first time seeing it at Stanford Movie Theater in Palo Alto, CA. It's an old timey theater and it was the perfect venue to see such movie.

 

For some reason the movie captured me and to this day I am still enthralled. The snappy dialogue is playful and witty.  To see Fred MacMurray in something other than a Disney flick was new to my eyes.  Boy, he was sexy as all get out in Double Indemnity. And the way he smoked just added fuel to my fire. (hubba hubba).

[Julia]

I would add DOA and The Strange Love of Martha Ivers to those lists.

[aradia22]

 

If there is one quintessential noir it's Double Indemnity, as prican58 suggested, which I seem to remember you've already seen.

I have not seen Double Indemnity. I may have mentioned seeing a short clip in a class I took in college. It's definitely on the list as I'm still trying to decide if I'm a Barbara Stanwyck fan (having only seen Baby Face and some of Annie Oakley). Damn, I wish Night Nurse would come back on the schedule. 

[3pwood]

Robert Mitchum & Barbara Stanwyck are 2 of my favorites, in noir & everything else -- they would have been perfect together, why didn't that ever happen?

 

He made a lot of crap but elevated whatever he was in -- Out of the Past is probably his best noir, but Angel Face (1953 with Jean Simmons) is a close second.

[aradia22]

I watched The Costume Designer short today. It was kind of thrilling to see Edith Head even if the "historical and geographic accuracy" part was lol-worthy. It's interesting that the costume designer is presented as the one woman working in a movie business dominated by men and that costuming is presented almost as women's work when Edith Head started out at a time when Adrian dominated the business. I haven't gotten a chance to read a proper biography of Edith Head yet but from what I know of her background, it was almost like that scene in Singin' in the Rain where Don is giving a reporter a... colorful version of his background.

[Rinaldo]

Like many older movies, The Women is very dated in some aspects and incredibly witty and sharp in others.   

 

Another dated aspect is that wives didn't work.  

The Women definitely is dated, but it's only fair to mention that the author always emphasized that she was writing (satirically) about a tiny subculture of women: the ultra-privileged one percent who all know each other and do the same things. We also get a glimpse of what life is like for some other women, those who do need to work (servants, manicurists, models, salespeople, etc.), and they share their outlook, but only in passing.

 

I think I wrote earlier in this thread that on a recent re-viewing of The Women, I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Shearer in the first half of the movie. She felt very genuine and un-actressy goofing around with her daughter and being amused by her friend at their get-together. Toward the end she was required to get more noble and weepy, but I doubt anybody could redeem those scenes (and she still gets a few good sly snarky bits even in the last scene, so she's not insufferable). The special delight for me in that movie is Paulette Goddard.

[3pwood]

 

the special delight for me in that movie is Paulette Goddard

 

That's pretty much always the case with her, isn't it?  Charlie Chaplin knew what he was doing when he married her.

Edited July 20, 2014 by 3pwood

[prican58]

3pwood, I absolutely love Angel Face! My impetus for viewing it years ago was Mitchum, who fascinated me and continues to do so, but came away from  it being amazed at Simmons' talent. What a different role for her. She was great in the film.

 

I've always found Martha Ivers to be a bit confusing but the performances are very good. Wasn't that Kirk Dougas' first big screen role? 

[bunnylove]

Not to derail the current topic, but I love Barbara Stanwyck in Stella Dallas.  Also, a note on Robert Mitchum, he's charming in Holiday Affair.  

[ratgirlagogo]

James Garner has died.  Shit.

 

http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/james-garner-of-maverick-rockford-files-dies-at-86-1201265361/

[mariah23]

I just about to post this, ratgirlagogo.  This just plain sucks.  Rest in peace, Mr. Garner.

[psychoticstate]

I watched a DVR'd Make Way For Tomorrow this weekend.  I saw it once before, years ago, but didn't fully appreciate it then.  So sad how those adult children treated their parents.  Victor Moore was good but Beulah Bondi was phenomenal and absolutely stole the movie. 

 

I did read that director Leo McCarey's contract with the studio was not renewed by Adolph Zukor after making this movie because Zukor wanted a happy, upbeat ending but McCarey refused.

    

[mariah23]

TCM will have their James Garner tribute next Monday, the 28th.  Schedule right here: http://www.tcm.com/this-month/movie-news.html?id=1018763&name=Schedule-Change-for-James-Garner-Tribute-on-Monday-July-28

[Rinaldo]

That's a nice lineup, focusing largely on the ones that don't get shown all the time (I mean, someone's always showing The Great Escape or Support Your Local Sheriff), though I might have found room for Skin Game and Murphy's Romance (the latter was his one Oscar nomination and I can't think when I last had a chance to see it). It's especially good to see The Americanization of Emily scheduled.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Rinaldo

[Bastet]

It's especially good to see The Americanization of Emily scheduled.

 

That's the first thing I looked for, and was so pleased to find it in the line-up.

[psychoticstate]

I look forward to seeing Marlowe, Mister Buddwing, and  The Thrill of It All - - none of which I have seen before.

[aradia22]

I decided to watch Lizzie (1957) today with Eleanor Parker. It's one of those roles that I think actors love...playing 3 distinct characters. I think Eleanor Parker's acting was surprisingly subtle as this kind of thing can become quite campy. It really only got crazy towards the end. YMMV on the Lizzie character but I think even she didn't get too ridiculous until confronted by Dr. Wright and the running through the museum scene was the only thing that was truly ridiculous. The movie didn't have a lot of energy. It was just not structured terribly well as a way of telling this story. The psychiatry in this movie was more like magic. I'm not a big Johnny Mathis fan but I did like his performances in the piano bar in this movie.

 

As far as this kind of Sybil/The Three Faces of Eve movie goes, I don't think this is one that you need to see. If you're a big fan of these movies it couldn't hurt to take a look but there's nothing too remarkable about it.

[Rinaldo]

For those who like that Agatha Christie novel as a film source (I certainly do), this blog offers a treat: separate entries on all five of its film adaptations, and then a comparison including awards for best realization of each character (the characters morph across the various updatings and changes, but that's part of the fun). I doubt anyone else will ever go into it in such depth or with such enthusiasm. In fact the whole blog is fun reading for those who like the Christie oeuvre -- every book, and every film or TV adaptation, is discussed.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

though I might have found room for Skin Game

That's a favorite of mine and I would have picked it over Mister Buddwing.

[aradia22]

I feel like this happens every couple of months. I read or hear someone analyzing romantic comedies and part of me agrees and part of me wants to push back against their theories but I haven't synthesized all my personal feelings about rom-coms yet. Grantland just did a podcast breaking down romantic comedies from the 1980's onwards, but I feel like you need to start with the movies that get shown on TCM. Anyway, my initial question is this... do you want to have this conversation here or should I go start a thread on the Movies board?

[Rinaldo]

That sounds really interesting, but also likely to be a long-term discussion, whereas this thread tends to respond to the daily programming on TCM. So a new thread seems more appropriate to me, for whatever that's worth.

[aradia22]

That makes sense, Rinaldo. OK, said thread is now created though I couldn't think of a clever title so I just called it Romantic Comedies.

[voiceover]

Late to the party to say, very saddened by the news of James Garner's passing.  He continued to be wonderful onscreen, to the end -- he's one of the best parts of Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood (an uneven picture I consider one of my "evil noshes": as in, embarrassed to admit, I like it) and -- ughhh -- The Notebook.  That smackdown of Julie Andrews in Americanization is one of those all-time, unforgettable movie diatribes.

 

And, because I'm the right age, I add that I adored his Polaroid commercials with Mariette Hartley.  Rest in peace, Mr Garner.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

And, because I'm the right age, I add that I adored his Polaroid commercials with Mariette Hartley.

Ha!  I also thought of these - such great chemistry.  Too bad they couldn't have done an actual movie or TV show together. 

[Julia]

Mariette Hartley was in a movie with Alan Ladd, who was way shorter than she was, and reportedly had to do her scenes with him standing in a hole.

It must have been fun for her to work with James Garner.

[Rinaldo]

Mariette Hartley did guest star on one of the later episodes of The Rockford Files after the Polaroid commercials were so popular. She says in her autobiography how much she owes to those commercials (they made her unusually financially secure for a non-star actor), and how much she enjoyed working with Garner.

[ratgirlagogo]

She worked a lot in television, but I don't know why she didn't work more in movies.  She has a big role in one of my favorite movies, Ride the High Country, with Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea, and gave a very strong performance, even compared with  the two old vets.

 

I don't know how much any of you have been watching the World War One films on Fridays this month - many of them have been new to me.  I've been trying to kind of gather my thoughts to post about a couple of them, perhaps later.  I did want to mention that late tonight they're showing Oh! What A Lovely War!, which they don't play that often and seems to be out of print in region 1.  It's an interesting placement for it if you've been following the series - the films from the 20's and 30's are so strongly anti-war, or at least anti that war, that it feels more of a piece with them and less of a 60's artifact, the way audiences often see it now.  Also it seems that every British theatre actor active at that time is in it, so it's interesting even apart from the message and the songs.

[Rinaldo]

When I was in 8th grade, I saw Mariette Hartley onstage, in the American Shakespeare Festival's touring production of A Midsummer Night's Dream. (She was Helena, Bert Lahr was Bottom.) She was 21 and glorious in every way, and I developed quite the little gay-boy crush on her. After which I never saw or heard of her again (I missed her movies and TV), until 18 years later all the TV columns started explaining "That actress with James Garner in all the commercials is named Mariette Hartley." Then I belatedly caught up. I also learned that at 21 she had been a Shakespeare veteran, having already played several of the leading ingenue roles after studying with a neighbor, the great Eva Le Gallienne.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

She was 21 and glorious in every way

Yeah, that's her in Ride the High Country too, for that matter.  Does she talk about why she didn't work more in movies in her autobiography?

[Rinaldo]

Not as such -- just that it's a tough life, period. She did get big roles on TV (Spock fell in love with her, she "went through all the Bonanza men, one after another," a regular spot on Peyton Place which as she makes a joke of it backfired when casting agents decided she really was frigid), and like everyone in the biz just kept plugging away, trying to stay employed and to have some kind of a personal life.

[psychoticstate]

For those who like that Agatha Christie novel as a film source (I certainly do), this blog offers a treat: separate entries on all five of its film adaptations, and then a comparison including awards for best realization of each character (the characters morph across the various updatings and changes, but that's part of the fun). I doubt anyone else will ever go into it in such depth or with such enthusiasm. In fact the whole blog is fun reading for those who like the Christie oeuvre -- every book, and every film or TV adaptation, is discussed.

Thank you for the link to that site!  I am thrilled the blog author loves "Evil Under the Sun" as much as I do but am disappointed that he/she doesn't see the fun and campy merit in "Death on the Nile", which I adore.

[Julia]

Thank you for the link to that site!  I am thrilled the blog author loves "Evil Under the Sun" as much as I do but am disappointed that he/she doesn't see the fun and campy merit in "Death on the Nile", which I adore.

 

That may be the only movie I ever liked Mia Farrow in. Come to think of it, or Lois Chiles.

 

Also, David Suchet and Joan Hickson are pretty much my head-Poirot and Marple, but I loved the Ustinov and Lansbury movies.

[aradia22]

I tried to watch Yolanda and the Thief today. I should have listened to all of you. I got through 15 minutes. That was an awful opening. How was that supposed to grab the audience? Then I tried fast forwarding to get to musical numbers only to be very underwhelmed. Lucille Bremer looked lovely in the Irene dresses. Yeah... I probably won't be giving this another shot.

[Julia]

I think Yolanda and the Thief was sort of a magnificent failure. Vincente Minelli did a lot of really interesting things, but he was stuck with the boss' girlfriend, and although I really think she would have done a good, competent job in B-list musicals, she was a bit of a lox for the Freed unit.

[Rinaldo]

... am disappointed that he/she doesn't see the fun and campy merit in "Death on the Nile", which I adore.

Any movie that has Maggie Smith, Bette Davis, and Angela Lansbury competing to see who can ham it up most elegantly has to have something going for it. And Simon MacCorkindale was certainly decorative. My biggest gripe about the movie (and I know it's petty and nitpicky, but that's me) is the way they all agreed to mispronounce Lois Chiles's character's name. It's Linnet, as in the book -- a kind of bird, accented on the first syllable. And they all said it as if were Lynette, accented on the second syllable. Was there nobody on set to correct them? Or did Mia Farrow decide to do that and nobody would dare stop her?

[aradia22]

I decided to watch Come September (1961). I enjoyed it and I didn't. Rock Hudson was gorgeous. Gina Lollobrigida was absolutely stunning. Beautiful in every single outfit they put her in. But this was one of those plots where I hate everyone in the movie aside from the main characters. No, I did not find the majordomo or the college students charming. They were assholes. Also, idiots. Was the point to convince me that college students don't know what they're talking about? Because I already knew that. It was kind of fun to see Rock Hudson embody that stereotype of masculinity with the shows of strength and endurance without the accompanying jerkiness from his roles in those Doris Day movies. And the wacky hijinks at the very end were sort of cute. I don't regret watching it but it's not a much watch. I'm a little bit in love with Gina Lollobrigida now. Any good recommendations? Not the epics. I can't stand epics.