TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Bastet]

Same here -- I have Virginia Woolf and Long Day's Journey, and had seen whatever else was included (I'm blanking now) other than The Sea Gull, so meant to record that but forgot.  Like you, I've heard I didn't miss much, but I like seeing how plays are adapted (or not) to the screen.

[Julia]

4 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Watched Girl Crazy yesterday. Of course the Gershwin music is wonderful, but even though I am not generally a Judy Garland fan I found her totally captivating. I don't remember her looking this pretty in any other movie, and the exuberance with which she sings "I Got Rhythm" is irresistible.

I think she was awfully pretty in Till The Clouds Roll By. She was pregnant with Liza, and eating right, and off the drugs, and she just glowed.

3 hours ago, voiceover said:

*tumbleweeds*

I like O'Neill but sometimes wonder if he'd go down better as a mini-series.

I recorded them, but he's hard for me. I have to save him until I'm in the right place.

[Padma]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 11:53 AM, bluepiano said:

....There's a scene in which Mickey Rooney plays piano with the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra. It seems to actually be him playing, because there are no cuts. Does anyone know if Mickey could really play the piano that well? I know he was a pretty good drummer (dancing and drumming are definitely related), but if that was actually him on the piano that I have even more respect for his multiple talents.

.I watched Girl Crazy a month or so ago and remember reading on TCM that Rooney did play piano well and that was all him in that scene.

Quote

This week's "Stage to Screen" evening, hosted by Annette O'Toole and Michael McKean -- most of it is sitting on the DVR (I own Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? on DVD so didn't bother with that), but it'll take a while to get through it, this being substantial stuff. .... Did anybody watch any or all of these?

I just watched "Our Town" which, like "Long Day's..." is still available on "TMC On Demand".  I'd never seen the film before and was surprised how easy it was to get interested in the ordinary lives of a handful of people in early 20th century (stylized) small town America. It is, as the hosts noted, a beautifully filmed, written and acted movie. However, as this is a spoiler-free site, I'll just say, having read the play, I'm still trying to adjust to the shock of the change they made to Act 3. It's certainly worthwhile viewing--a great opportunity to revisit Thornton Wilder--slow paced but not boring--but...yes, it was a bit of a disappointment that they kept so much intact--but not everything.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Padma

[bluepiano]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, Padma said:

I watched Girl Crazy a month or so ago and remember reading on TCM that Rooney did play piano well and that was all him in that scene.

Well, Mickey's father was in vaudeville, where the more different things you could do (sing, dance, tell jokes, play an instrument) the better chance you had of working steadily. As a kid Mickey I'm sure Mickey was raised in that tradition.

It's always impressive to me how so many of the stars of the 30s and 40s had multiple talents. Not on a Mickey Rooney or Judy Garland level, but many people known as primarily dramatic performers could sing and/or dance passably well.

Then you had people like Dick Powell, who transitioned from being a singer and light comedy leading man to playing dramatic parts. Or the less well-known case of John Payne, who started in musicals but spent most of his career playing tough guy heroes in film noirs and westerns.

Edited June 7, 2016 by bluepiano

[voiceover]

First discovered, and promptly fell in love with, Marion Davies in The Patsy.  One of the best comic turns in silent film -- plus , she was completely adorable! and her Swanson/Gish imitations were dead on.

Just noticed that Orville Chamberlin looks exactly like a young Fredric March!!

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, voiceover said:

First discovered, and promptly fell in love with, Marion Davies in The Patsy.  One of the best comic turns in silent film -- plus , she was completely adorable! and her Swanson/Gish imitations were dead on.

And something else about that performance (I think I made this comment on Television Without Pity back in the day, or somewhere else): It's astonishingly modern. When I look at her in that film, I see a precursor of comic gestures and attitudes that wouldn't gain currency until the 1950s.

[Inquisitionist]

A bit of a digression, but has anyone read The Chaperone, which features 15-year-old Louise Brooks as a major supporting character?  She made her cinematic mark mostly in the pre-sound era -- I don't think I've seen any of her performances.  But I recalled her "look" immediately.

[Julia]

13 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Or the less well-known case of John Payne, who started in musicals but spent most of his career playing tough guy heroes in film noirs and westerns.

That's really interesting. I just saw him in the episode of Columbo where he played aging starlet Janet Leigh's former dancing partner, and since I only ever knew him from Miracle on 34th Street I was surprised that they chose him to play a musical star.

[Crisopera]

And of course, Dick Powell was the king of this kind of bifurcated career - he started out as the bouncy tenor juvenile in the Busby Berkeley movies of the early thirties, but then turned into a hard-bitten noir star in the forties, including a very good Philip Marlowe in Murder My Sweet.

[voiceover]

8 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

And something else about [Marion Davies'] performance: It's astonishingly modern. When I look at her in that film, I see a precursor of comic gestures and attitudes that wouldn't gain currency until the 1950s.

Such a fabulous observation, it deserves a re-quote.

I often feel alone in my Davies-fandom, so I was glad to read that.

[ratgirlagogo]

6 hours ago, Crisopera said:

And of course, Dick Powell was the king of this kind of bifurcated career - he started out as the bouncy tenor juvenile in the Busby Berkeley movies of the early thirties, but then turned into a hard-bitten noir star in the forties, including a very good Philip Marlowe in Murder My Sweet.

And on the radio in Rogue's Gallery and for years and years as Richard Diamond.

Edited June 8, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[HelenBaby]

Anybody watch Jigsaw last night? I really do love those early 1960's British dramas and this was no exception. Fast paced & engaging. So glad we decided to see it, because I hadn't seen it before and I knew none of the actors, although I think I might have seen Ronald White in something before.

[Julia]

20 hours ago, voiceover said:

Such a fabulous observation, it deserves a re-quote.

I often feel alone in my Davies-fandom, so I was glad to read that.

I remember there being a lot of conversation back at TWOP about how underrated Marion Davies was. Even Orson Welles said so.

[Padma]

Not sure why, but Robert Montgomery is a big actor whom I've seen very little of. I thought he was excellent in today's TCM "Night Must Fall" opposite Rosalind Russell and Dame May Whitty. It was a very good psychological thriller in the vein of "Suspicion"--really kept me guessing.

[bluepiano]

That was definitely a role way far removed from Montgomery's typical romantic comedy leading man persona, and I agree that it was a really striking performance. To my knowledge he never took on that challenging a role again, though he did once play Philip Marlowe in a version of Lady in the Lake that he also directed. That movie used a first person camera so you only saw him once on screen, in a mirror. (But on voice alone he was a really unconvincing Marlowe).

Robert Montgomery is a good example of the phenomena of an actor who was a major star in his time but is now generally forgotten. Except maybe for his leading role in Here Comes Mr. Jordan, a TV staple, and for being Elizabeth's father. (She made her debut on Robert Montgomery Presents, an anthology TV show he produced that ran for several years in the '50s.)

Edited June 9, 2016 by bluepiano

[Rinaldo]

Night Must Fall is also the first Hollywood movie for Dame May Whitty, in a role that had been a triumph for her (rather late in life) onstage. Her daughter Margaret Webster, by then well established as a stage director in the US, was relieved to see her parents relocated well away from London at that moment in time. And it turned out to begin a new chapter for May, who found herself in demand for prestigious supporting roles in movies. (Once, she and her actor husband Ben Webster were able to act together, in their episode in Lassie Come Home.)

Edited June 9, 2016 by Rinaldo

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Robert Montgomery is a good example of the phenomena of an actor who was a major star in his time but is now generally forgotten.

It would be interesting to figure out why that happens to some stars and not others. There have to be reasons. Sometimes it might be because they died or retired at just the wrong time for immortality. Other times because their acting styles went out of style. Other times for "structural reasons," like they chose not to go into television or something. But it seems for every example of a major star who got forgotten for a particular reason, there's another star to whom that reason could equally apply but who nevertheless is remembered widely today. And some stars did "all the right things" but nevertheless got forgotten. Why do we suppose Montgomery (who did go into television, for seven years!) got forgotten?

[Rinaldo]

We probably won't manage to pin it down in definite objective way, but one thing that definitely makes a difference is having a memorable role in one of the handful of "classic" titles that remain in public consciousness. Gone with the Wind takes care of Clark Gable and Vivien Leigh, and so on. (It applies in more recent decades too: because of Ferris Bueller, succeeding generations apparently will always know who Matthew Broderick is, and he remains a "name" who can guarantee a year's run for a stage show.)

Did Robert Montgomery ever have something like that? Even Here Comes Mr. Jordan may not quite qualify.

[Padma]

3 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

We probably won't manage to pin it down in definite objective way, but one thing that definitely makes a difference is having a memorable role in one of the handful of "classic" titles that remain in public consciousness. Gone with the Wind takes care of Clark Gable and Vivien Leigh, and so on. (It applies in more recent decades too: because of Ferris Bueller, succeeding generations apparently will always know who Matthew Broderick is, and he remains a "name" who can guarantee a year's run for a stage show.)

Did Robert Montgomery ever have something like that? Even Here Comes Mr. Jordan may not quite qualify.

Looking through Montgomery's filmography it's pretty surprising how few of his many, many films I've ever heard of.  As a Noel Coward fan, I'd like to see "Private Lives".  The most famous film after "Here Comes..." is probably Hitchcock's "Mr & Mrs. Smith"--one of Hitchcock's lesser works. And, as was mentioned, "Lady in the Lake" which I now remember trying to watch several times on TCM, but it was pretty bad.

"Here Comes Mr. Jordan" looks like his biggest film by far, maybe the reason we still know his name at all, even though the role itself (originally intended for Cary Grant) doesn't seem like it would be memorable enough to qualify per Rinaldo's criteria above.

The only things I knew about Montgomery are not about his movies, but in the realm of political trivia. #1 that he was an early media consultant who coached Eisenhower to be better on television. (After the disastrous Nixon-JFK debate, Ike told Nixon "If you'd taken my advice and worked with Bob you wouldn't have lost."). And #2 that the existence of "Robert Montgomery Presents", with its "classy anthology" reputation helped persuade Ronald Reagan to host "GE Theater"  even though he disliked television initially and didn't want to work in it, feeling it was not the "quality" or prestige of film and was giving movies unwelcome and dumbed down competition.

It's  odd to look at the list of Montgomery's films--so few that anyone would watch today--and think of what a major star he was, though part of the reputation may also have been because he also directed and produced (and was the only one to coach a president). Television did dumb down entertainment, but the need for content did rescue a lot of fading movie actors' careers post 1960--the time when Montgomery basically retired--(James Arness, Robert Young, Fred MacMurray, Bob Cummings, Jackie Cooper, etc. etc.) 

It's another reminder (not that anyone -here- needs it!), that we're so lucky there's TCM. Even though it was an anomaly in his career, for me, because of TCM, "Night Must Fall" will be the performance I associate with Robert Montgomery now, rather than only "Here Comes Mr. Jordan".

Edited June 9, 2016 by Padma

[Rick Kitchen]

Robert Montgomery was also Elizabeth Montgomery's (Bewitched) father.

[bluepiano]

As you've all indicated, the question of why some once prominent stars are forgotten involves a combination of factors.

It's often because of acting styles that have become dated, especially among actors in the early days of sound movies, who usually came from the theater and had a style that now seems stiff and unnatural. (Norma Shearer and Kay Francis come to mind). Also, these stars tended to appear in what were then considered "prestige" movies, often literary adaptations or period movies, that have not held up over time and are now largely forgotten. (Paul Muni would be an actor who falls into this category).The B movies and genre films of the '30s, '40s, and '50s, generally ignored by critics at the time, resonate much more strongly with contemporary tastes.

My other thought is that actors like Robert Montgomery, while always capable, did not have a clearly identifiable style. (I'm trying to avoid the word "generic.") Fredric March, though certainly a great actor, is another one. The performers from the classic Hollywood era who are best remembered all seem to have had distinct personal styles, and images that were often indistinguishable from the parts they played - Bogart, Cagney, Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart, and on the women's side, Hepburn, Bette Davis, and Joan Crawford, to name a few.

Edited June 9, 2016 by bluepiano

[ratgirlagogo]

4 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Did Robert Montgomery ever have something like that? Even Here Comes Mr. Jordan may not quite qualify.

These days I'm not sure.  Night Must Fall used to play a lot at the repertory theatres, back when there were more of them, and I saw that one before I ever saw Here Comes Mr. Jordan.  And They Were Expendable is an evergreen TV staple especially around the war-related holidays - where's he's teamed up with John Wayne and directed by John Ford.   Lady In The Lake sure seems to be a TCM favorite - it's an interesting failure to me but I guess anything Marlowe-related is going to be something people will be curious about.

55 minutes ago, Padma said:

As a Noel Coward fan, I'd like to see "Private Lives"

This also used to show more than it does now.  And of course he was paired up with:

18 minutes ago, bluepiano said:

 had a style that now seems stiff and unnatural. (Norma Shearer and Kay Francis come to mind)

who is kind of in the same boat.  Although I'd argue about Shearer and Francis that the recent revival of interest in pre-code films has resulted in an entirely new fandom for both of them.

I can't quite put my finger on it either but he barely seems like he's good-looking enough to be a movie star to me - although when I look at photos of him there's not anything wrong with him.

I'm tempted to say that it had to do with his right-wing politics but that doesn't seem to matter when it comes to John Wayne so clearly that's not it either..  John Wayne just looks and acts and FEELS like a movie star to me and Robert Montgomery doesn't.  

[Milburn Stone]

37 minutes ago, bluepiano said:

My other thought is that actors like Robert Montgomery, while always capable, did not have a clearly identifiable style. (I'm trying to avoid the word "generic.") Fredric March, though certainly a great actor, is another one. The performers from the classic Hollywood era who are best remembered all seem to have had distinct personal styles, and images that were often indistinguishable from the parts they played - Bogart, Cagney, Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart, and on the women's side, Hepburn, Bette Davis, and Joan Crawford, to name a few.

That seems really smart to me. Everything else everyone has mentioned has truth in it, but this may be the key. The other part of the equation (the lock that fits the key, if you will), is that with all the actors you name, you want them to be the same from film to film, within reason. It wasn't just that Jimmy Stewart was always basically Jimmy Stewart (no matter that he could convincingly play anything from a lovable dope to a son-of-a-bitch bounty hunter)--it was that you wanted, needed him to be Jimmy Stewart, and would have been bitterly disappointed if he hadn't been. I can't think of a Jimmy Stewart movie in which that JimmyStewartness  (the clearly identifiable style, as you say) wasn't there, despite his considerable range. And more to the point, if there had been such a movie, audiences would have hated it!

This may be why Cary Grant was so disappointing in the light comedy Once Upon a Honeymoon that TCM showed recently. It was a rare instance of Cary Grant not being Cary Grant. Paradoxically, the Cary Grant of Arsenic and Old Lace and Notorious (two more different movies than which it would be hard to imagine) have more in common with each other. There's an ineffable CaryGrantness there in both movies, the thing you want when you watch a Cary Grant movie.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[ratgirlagogo]

Sure, as Katharine Hepburn said, show me an actress who isn't always playing herself and I'll show you an actress who isn't a star.  There's a lot to that of course.  But then there are people like Eddie Cantor or Harry Langdon who were huge at the time, who always played the same extremely identifiable character in all their films and are only known by TCMites today.  

Frederic March would have a bigger reputation if more of his movies were shown on TV on a regular basis.  Everyone on this board adores The Best Years of Our Lives and my fellow horror geeks will probably never really stop watching Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and I Married A Witch, the latter of which will also be watched by the comedy people who will watch Nothing Sacred.  I don't know what reputation he has today to be honest - he almost seems like a Laurette Taylor that everyone knows was a hugely admired actress but few have seen in anything.

Edited June 9, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[Padma]

That's a good overall point about the "movie star" quality that most big names have and, even when they resist typecasting, a certain identifiable type. (Cary Grant in "Father Goose" was one of my favorite comedic roles for him, but apparently turned off a lot of audiences because most of the time he played a gruff, grizzled loner who drank too much and they wanted him to be, well, "Cary Grant".)

But I'd have to disagree that Frederic March isn't still a huge star, unlike Robert Montgomery, even though he didn't have much of an identifiable persona beyond "leading man for many years who matured into solid middle-aged character roles of mostly "leadership-types" which he always brought a lot of complexity to).  Unlike Montgomery, March had so many big films (plus was better looking and an excellent actor who got diverse parts). Think of all the FM films that TCM shows--the three ratgirlagogo mentions plus tons of others including "A Star Is Born", "inherit the Wind", "Executive Suite", "Barretts of Wimpole Street", "Les Miserables", "Anna Karenina", "The Bridges at Toko-Ri", "Death Takes A Holiday", and, in the 1960s, "Seven Days in May"--one of the best political thrillers.  I always enjoy "Trade Winds" with him and Joan Bennett, even though it's not a great movie by any means, but definitely light and enjoyable. 

I don't know how many generations are aware of Frederic March though. Maybe there are the "great actors who are still recognized by younger generations from iconic films or by their iconic personas" and then the "great actors that only film buffs can easily identify today" like, perhaps, Frederic March.  (Then the ones like Montgomery who were good actors and considered top tier during their heyday but who--lacking a role in a great film and not having "signature persona as a star"--or even exceptional looks--are no longer much thought of at all today.) 

Edited June 9, 2016 by Padma

[prican58]

On 6/8/2016 at 10:12 AM, HelenBaby said:

Anybody watch Jigsaw last night? I really do love those early 1960's British dramas and this was no exception. Fast paced & engaging. So glad we decided to see it, because I hadn't seen it before and I knew none of the actors, although I think I might have seen Ronald White in something before.

I also love those films, Helenbaby. I had it on but didn't engage too much. I will surely attempt to see it on Watch TCM. I wonder if those actors are considered by British folks as "classic" movie actors  from the UK film industry.

Talking about Fredric March and BYOOL, it might be an idea for a network (not a cable one) to air that film yearly on Memorial Day the way that NBC airs "It's  A Wonderful Life" every Christmas season and give it a lot of pomp and circumstance about how timeless it is given that issues in the film are still issues today.  

[bluepiano]

4 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I can't quite put my finger on it either but he barely seems like he's good-looking enough to be a movie star to me - although when I look at photos of him there's not anything wrong with him.  

I totally get what you're saying about Robert Montgomery. Maybe another way to put it is that he has a quality I might characterize as "light weight." I think of him in Hitchcock's Mr. and Mrs. Smith, which is almost universally criticized as a light weight movie, and wonder if it would've been a better movie with, say, Cary Grant or William Powell in the lead. Powell might make an interesting comparison with Montgomery. He certainly did not have "movie star looks," but he had a charisma I think is lacking in Montgomery. He was certainly a lot more successful playing opposite Lombard than Montgomery was in Smith.

I generally like Montgomery in Here Comes Mr. Jordan, but I always thought that the quasi-tough guy Brooklyn accent he adopted to play a prizefighter was patently phony. He used a similar accent as Philip Marlowe, which really put me off, because the character as created by Chandler was educated and erudite. He could mix it up with the lower elements but he wasn't one of them.

Regarding Fredric March, he did have kind of a second career later in life as a character actor. As did Melvyn Douglas, who I think could also have been called somewhat "light weight" as a leading man in his prime, but had great presence when he got older, and won two Best Supporting Actors, the last one (for Being There) when he was 79.

And because Nixon was mentioned in this thread, and I love connecting the dots, I while mention that Douglas's wife, Helen Gahagan, was defeated in the race for California Senator in 1950, after notoriously dirty Red-baiting campaign run by Nixon that first earned him the name "Tricky Dick." (But Gahagan, who played the title role of "She" in the 1935 movie, probably had the last laugh. She and Douglas were happily married for 49 years, and died within a couple of months of each other when they were both 80. Living well is the best revenge.)

[Bastet]

Quote

As did Melvyn Douglas, who I think could also have been called somewhat "light weight" as a leading man in his prime, but had great presence when he got older, and won two Best Supporting Actors, the last one (for Being There) when he was 79.

That certainly holds true for me; I didn't ever love him as a leading man (so often, I'd think "this movie would be better with [other actor who'd played a similar role or worked well with the female co-star] instead," but when he got older and shifted to supporting roles I'd often find him one of the best parts of a film.

[HelenBaby]

1 hour ago, prican58 said:

I also love those films, Helenbaby. I had it on but didn't engage too much. I will surely attempt to see it on Watch TCM. I wonder if those actors are considered by British folks as "classic" movie actors  from the UK film industry.

Talking about Fredric March and BYOOL, it might be an idea for a network (not a cable one) to air that film yearly on Memorial Day the way that NBC airs "It's  A Wonderful Life" every Christmas season and give it a lot of pomp and circumstance about how timeless it is given that issues in the film are still issues today.  

I looked at the entry on IMDB for Jigsaw the other night and the guy who played the lead detective, Jack Warner, was a big TV star in the UK. I made a mistake about the guy who played the junior detective. His name was Ronald Lewis. He had a pretty good tv career over there as well as making some films but he committed suicide at age 53. Ben Mankiewicz talked about the lady who played the spinster who was involved with the killer, and it seems she was discovered by Laurence Olivier & brought to England to play Billie Dawn in Born Yesterday in the West End during the late 1950's. Her name was Yolanda Donlan and she married Val Guest who directed Jigsaw. She had a long career in England as well. It's great to make new discoveries like this.

[Rinaldo]

I did watch that POV-camera Lady in the Lake that Montgomery directed and almost-appeared in, last time it came around on TCM. My expectations had been suitably lowered by the tepid reactions to it I'd read over the years, but even so... it's remarkably devoid of thrills or energy, all the more so as it's supposed to be a suspenseful mystery. It's rendered even limper by the way the device is explained at the start of the movie (so it's not even a genuine first-person experience). Honestly, I think the half-hour M*A*S*H episode "Point of View" was vastly better written, acted, and directed.

I'm very much enjoying this month's theme of adaptations from the stage. It's rare to get to see Lumet's Sea Gull, and even his Long Day's Journey into Night hasn't come my way in a very long time, and I've never caught the Claire Bloom Doll's House at all. Among the examples still to come this month (ignoring the musicals) are The Importance of Being Earnest, Private Lives (!), Harvey, You Can't Take It with You, A Man for All Seasons, Marat/Sade, and a Shakespeare evening with the Orson Welles Macbeth, the Olivier Hamlet, the Reinhardt Midsummer Night's Dream, the Shearer/Howard Romeo and Juliet, and the Brook/Scofield King Lear.

The 28th will be another Disney day, with the original Parent Trap and otherwise mostly cartoon shorts and episodes from the Disney show (the latter including the first color telecast).

[Bastet]

Quote

The 28th will be another Disney day, with the original Parent Trap

Yes!  I've never made a spreadsheet or anything, but it's a safe bet I dislike or have no interest in more Disney movies than I like.  But the ones I like, I love.  And, even though I know better, every single time I'm going around the program guide and see The Parent Trap on one of the Disney stations, I get excited for a beat before confirming it's the remake rather than the original.  (The same happens with Freaky Friday, which I love even more.)  So I will tune in to watch the original yet again, for many reasons, including seeing the delightful Una Merkel still going strong as Verbena.

[ratgirlagogo]

26 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yes!  I've never made a spreadsheet or anything, but it's a safe bet I dislike or have no interest in more Disney movies than I like.  But the ones I like, I love

The one I love more than any other is The Three Lives of Thomasina - it's not just my favorite Disney movie, it's one of my favorite films period.  I'm guessing you must have similar feelings about it........

[Crisopera]

I'm very fond of The Three Lives of Thomasina -  a rare sighting of Patrick McGoohan as a movie leading man (I always had a small crush on him).

 

The topic of whose reputation lives on is fascinating.  I always enjoyed Robert Montgomery in his 1930s comedies - he could be very charming.  And he's a lot better than Shearer in Private Lives.  I agree that the faux-Brooklyn accent in Here Comes Mr. Jordan doesn't work terribly well, but his dramatic performance in They Were Expendable is very fine.  And I must say I never liked Norma Shearer in her "grand lady" roles (The Women, Marie Antoinette, The Barretts of Wimpole Street), but have been quite impressed by her pre-Code films (and the two silents I've seen, Lady of the Night - a dual role - and The Student Prince in Old Heidelburg).

[Bastet]

I listened to Darryl Hickman's commentary on the Leave Her to Heaven DVD (he played Cornel Wilde's little brother) last night - let us just say he did not enjoy working with Gene Tierney - so this morning I looked him up on IMDb to see if he's still alive (he is), and I did not realize what a long career he's had.  I knew he made the transition from child to adult actor, and kept working steadily through the sixties and got gigs in the seventies and eighties as well, but I had no idea he'd also spent much of the nineties as a voice actor. 

Per the DVD commentary, after a short stint as a network exec in NY, he decided to become an acting teacher and to intensely study different methods of acting in the quest to conceptualize the next process for the 21st century - sort of "beyond method."  He's well informed and very passionate about the craft and art of acting - and about filmmaking in general - but probably one of those people you'd meet at a party, ask "So what do you do for a living?" and then half an hour later you're desperately trying to signal your friend or partner to come rescue you.

There's also commentary from film critic Richard Schickel, which falls in line with what I like and don't like about the film, but doesn't really add much. 

I had somehow forgot Ray Collins was in this film.  He is such a solid actor; I really enjoy his presence in just about anything I see him in.

I need to get rid of some DVDs, so I'm going through the "maybe" pile right now.  I don't think I'll keep this one.  Visually, it's one of the most gorgeous films I've ever seen.  So much to marvel at, especially the lighting.  And Tierney is perfect for the role (which even Hickman readily grants).  But it's just not something I watch often, so I think I'll clear up a bit of space and just catch it occasionally on TCM. 

[Rick Kitchen]

Gene Tierney was just breathtaking in Laura.

[bluepiano]

49 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I listened to Darryl Hickman's commentary on the Leave Her to Heaven DVD (he played Cornel Wilde's little brother) last night - let us just say he did not enjoy working with Gene Tierney - so this morning I looked him up on IMDb to see if he's still alive (he is), and I did not realize what a long career he's had.  I knew he made the transition from child to adult actor, and kept working steadily through the sixties and got gigs in the seventies and eighties as well, but I had no idea he'd also spent much of the nineties as a voice actor. 

He had a small part in Network. But even though he was a pretty major kid actor, I bet more people remember his brother Dwayne from playing Dobie Gillis on TV. (And he was very funny in Cat Ballou).

Dwayne is also still alive, 82 according to Wikipedia. Hard to imagine Dobie Gillis being 82.

[Bastet]

Their mom named Darryl after Darryl Zanuck.  She desperately wanted to be in pictures, but couldn't make it, so she plopped Darryl into singing and dancing as a toddler and lived vicariously through him from then on.  It's interesting to hear him talk about being a child actor -- he really enjoyed the experience of making movies (he liked going to different places, he liked the other MGM kids he got to pal around with, etc.) but says it's a wholly abnormal way to grow up and when people ask him to coach their kids he says no - if they want to act when they're 18, great, but not before then.

Despite being the quintessential stage mom, he says she was a nice woman and one of the things he liked most about working with Cornel Wilde - who'd play ball with him during breaks in filming Heaven - was how Wilde went out of his way to be welcoming to Ms. Hickman when they were all staying at a Bass Lake lodge for several weeks filming the exterior Back of the Moon scenes.

[Rick Kitchen]

Daryl was also in Dobie Gillis, as Dobie's older brother.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I listened to Darryl Hickman's commentary on the Leave Her to Heaven DVD (he played Cornel Wilde's little brother) last night - let us just say he did not enjoy working with Gene Tierney...

If you wouldn't mind saying a little more than that, I'm all ears. I know Tierney was, er, "troubled," but would like to know more specifics about her on that film.

[Bastet]

He said she isolated herself, was patronizing to Wilde, and emotionally closed off from everyone both while off camera and on. He's not particularly complimentary towards her acting style, that she uses external gestures to communicate the character's emotions rather than processing them internally and trusting it will come through, but allows that it may have been because of the director, John Stahl.  His recurring complaint about working with her was that the distance she created between herself and everyone else off-screen continued while filming -- she gave absolutely nothing as an acting partner in a scene. 

Stahl was the other reason this was one of his least-favorite experiences out of all the films he did.  Hickman thought he was going to get fired from the film; he'd never had any troubles before, but when he and Tierney were rehearsing the scene on the boat (where they're both talking facing the camera, as she puts lotion on him) he just absolutely could not satisfy Stahl no matter what he did.  Stahl - who wouldn't call him by his name, only "son" - made them do it over and over, and kept apologizing to Tierney for Hickman's performance holding them up.  And instead of saying, "He's doing okay" or helping to come up with what Stahl wanted, she just made it worse (he doesn't go into specifics on that).

One night at the lodge, Stahl suddenly came up to him, called him by his name, and gave him a handful of coins to play the slot machines with.  After giving a baffled look to his mom and Cornel Wilde - the three of them having discussed their confusion as to why Stahl was treating Hickman as he'd been - he asked the A.D. what was up.  Stahl had received a telegram from Darryl Zanuck congratulating him on a certain scene with Hickman

Spoiler

(when his character drowns)

saying it was the most well-done he'd seen in years.  After that, Stahl was nice to Hickman - but turned on Cornel Wilde, treating him just as he'd done Hickman (including calling him "son" rather than by his name).

[Willowsmom]

3 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

Gene Tierney was just breathtaking in Laura.

Vincent Price and Clifton Webb stole that movie right out from under her.

[Rick Kitchen]

Clifton Webb was good at that.

[HelenBaby]

Darryl Hickman recently appeared at the TCM Film Festival and was interviewed by Leonard Maltin about Tea & Sympathy. I wasn't there but I did see a brief interview with Maltin on the opening night red carpet. 

Hickman was also part of a Private Screenings with Child Stars on TCM about 10 years ago with Jane Withers, Dick Moore & Margaret O'Brien. I think some of it may be on you tube if anyone is interested.

[Julia]

If you can get to your TV / VCR,. Ace in the Hole is about to start. It's hard to watch, but it's an amazing movie. 

[Rinaldo]

I'm amazed that Ace in the Hole was even made, at that date. (Of course it didn't reach much of an audience then; its reputation has come in later decades.)

[bluepiano]

Yeah, what a movie. I think it may be the best directing Billy Wilder ever did, and that's saying a lot. Kirk Douglas is terrific, and Jan Sterling gives a performance that ranks her up there among the all-time tough movie dames. (Although I always thought she kind of looked like Gilda Radner in a blonde wig).

Caught another of my favorite Wilder movies tonight, Stalag 17. I was always curious about the guy who plays the soldier who does the great Cagney and Gable impersonations, so I looked him up on IMDB, Turns out he was the brother of Larry Storch. Knowing that, I can really see the resemblance. (Storch was apparently an excellent impressionist too in his night club act).

Edited June 11, 2016 by bluepiano

[Milburn Stone]

Drat--missed Ace in the Hole. However, just checked and it is available for rent in HD at the iTunes Store, which means we can watch it on Apple TV.

As has been commented there and about, it has one of the most horrifyingly cynical, villainously hilarious (i.e. great) titles in movie history.

[prican58]

14 hours ago, bluepiano said:

Yeah, what a movie. I think it may be the best directing Billy Wilder ever did, and that's saying a lot. Kirk Douglas is terrific, and Jan Sterling gives a performance that ranks her up there among the all-time tough movie dames. (Although I always thought she kind of looked like Gilda Radner in a blonde wig).

Caught another of my favorite Wilder movies tonight, Stalag 17. I was always curious about the guy who plays the soldier who does the great Cagney and Gable impersonations, so I looked him up on IMDB, Turns out he was the brother of Larry Storch. Knowing that, I can really see the resemblance. (Storch was apparently an excellent impressionist too in his night club act).

I happen to be a big Larry Storch fan, growing up watching F Troop on tv. I love that over the top type of comedy. He is also my favorite thing in one of my guilty pleasure films, Sex and The Single Girl. 

[bluepiano]

I loved F Troop too. TV stopped being fun for me when they stopped making those wonderfully silly comedy shows. (F Troop, I Dream of Jeannie, Adams Family, My Favorite Martian, Get Smart etc etc.). And many of performers in those shows, like Storch, were amazing comic talents. Most had played small roles in movies and then really came into their own on TV.

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Edited June 11, 2016 by bluepiano

[Padma]

19 hours ago, Julia said:

If you can get to your TV / VCR,. Ace in the Hole is about to start. It's hard to watch, but it's an amazing movie. 

Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't attracted to the title, didn't know it was a BW film, and would never have watched it otherwise. You're right--great film--script, direction, acting, and theme. I love BW's cynicism--like Mark Twain's, he sees the faults in humanity through the perspective of someone who brings a lot of heart to it all.

I really appreciated that TCM followed Ace in the Hole with Stalag 17, another great BW movie with another cynical main character. (Interesting that the sub-host said Holden begged Wilder to make Sefton more likable and Wilder adamantly refused.)  Seeing Kirk Douglas and Holden back to back was pretty interesting as both so completely committed to the self-serving cynicism of their characters, but Holden always makes you feel he's got a good heart while Douglas completely sells me on the idea he's an arrogant jerk. I know its a performance--he knows exactly what he's doing--and you have to admire him for being willing to "go there" in a parts like that. Belated burst of conscience notwithstanding, he does "ambitious, unsympathetic bad guy" very, very well.

As for Holden, I just love his acting in everything he does.  No idea how many takes he went through--and you know with Wilder there were more than one--but however many he did, in all the scenes when he says absolutely nothing, you still always see what Sefton's thinking and feeling written on his face. So real.

Has William Holden ever given a bad performance? I certainly can't think of one. Glad he got an Oscar for S17, and didn't wind up like several great actors we know whose work never got that, or else got it for the wrong thing (e.g. like ET in "Butterfield 8")

I rarely go to current American movies. But after watching Wilder night (inc., in the same vein, Sunset Blvd) I'm wondering--are there any filmmakers like Wilder out there today, someone making morality plays with biting cynicism and also a sense of humanity to them? (It's probably too much to expect that and also Wilder's wit).