TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[aradia22]

I started watching Meet Me In Las Vegas (1956) tonight. I wonder if I just don't like Cyd Charisse very much as an actress. It's that or she's just not getting the right roles. She comes across as very cold to me but while other actors can play the same kinds of parts with life, she feels very two dimensional when she's doing it in movies like this and Silk Stockings and Brigadoon. She's mad but she doesn't have fire. I'm not sure quite how to explain it. Anyway, she dances beautifully but I'm still waiting for an explanation of why a nightclub/dinner theatre hired a ballet troupe. Also, the music didn't really go with the choreography in the first number. The script doesn't seem too bad and the leading man won me over when he sang so I think I'll stick with it a bit longer. We'll see how long it takes for 50's gender politics and the 50's movie visual style to get on my nerves. I may also dislike movies about Las Vegas if we're going to compare this to Ocean's Eleven and Viva Las Vegas.

[Rinaldo]

Ack! Sorry, Julia ! If I'm going to make a post that's nothing but a correction as I did, you'd think I'd at least get my facts straight....

 

I think it's fair to say that Cyd Charisse was never regarded as a notable actress. One doesn't have to go all the way with Pauline Kael (of whom I'm a devoted but not uncritical fan) and say that she reads lines as though she learned them phonetically (that's in The Band Wagon, and it's only fair to add that Kael said all was forgiven as soon as Charisse starts to dance), but there's something lacking there that can indeed come across as coldness. I do think she rose above this level on occasion -- I think of Silk Stockings (where a cold surface is in order, which helps) -- but on the whole it was really all about the dancing (her singing was always dubbed).

[Milburn Stone]

I think it's fair to say that Cyd Charisse was never regarded as a notable actress. One doesn't have to go all the way with Pauline Kael (of whom I'm a devoted but not uncritical fan) and say that she reads lines as though she learned them phonetically (that's in The Band Wagon, and it's only fair to add that Kael said all was forgiven as soon as Charisse starts to dance), but there's something lacking there that can indeed come across as coldness. I do think she rose above this level on occasion -- I think of Silk Stockings (where a cold surface is in order, which helps) -- but on the whole it was really all about the dancing (her singing was always dubbed).

 

I too am a Kael fan--have been smitten by her ever since I picked up the paperback of I Lost It at the Movies shortly after its publication, when I was a teenager, and devoured half of it on the bus ride home from a downtown Baltimore bookstore. As for Cyd, I don't exactly see coldness when she's not dancing, but I do see what I can only call artificiality. But here's the paradox. It's such a personal form of artificiality--so uniquely hers--that it becomes its own form of authenticity. No matter what the role, you get the same thing, the thing that can only be called Cyd Charisse--whether she's dancing, fake-singing, speaking, or just standing there. That is not a definition of great acting, I'm aware. But it is one definition of being a great star. The product known as Cyd Charisse is a total package that always serves the movie she's in. I'm particularly partial to her in It's Always Fair Weather, in which her number "Baby, You Knock Me Out" never fails to knock me out. But she knocks me out reading the phone book.

[aradia22]

I'm so glad I stuck with Meet Me in Las Vegas. It's just so damn charming. Cyd Charisse's acting is never remarkable but it does improve when the script allows her to soften (basically when she starts falling for Chuck). It's greatly helped by all the musical numbers which are so charming and adorable. Lena Horne... Mitsuko... the weird but interesting modern ballets. It basically gave Charisse a chance to show off. I think even next to The Bandwagon and Silk Stockings, this is the movie where she showed how many styles of dance she could excel at. Love the costumes and she had a great figure for clothes. There are things I'd cut here and there. The yellow shoes number at the ranch runs long and some scenes aren't necessary but overall I recommend this one. You have to stick with it but it's a fun time. The wiki page says it lost money. Is/was this not a popular movie?

[Rinaldo]

I don't know if it's popular in general, but I've only barely heard of it and never seen it. It's seldom mentioned, as far as I can tell.

[aradia22]

If it's on the schedule again and you haven't seen it I recommend at least fastforwarding to the musical and dance numbers.

[voiceover]

One additional thought on The Most Dangerous Game:  we read it in 7th grade English class.  Apparently, it started as a short story.  It creeped me out at the time, though all I remember of it is the title and the basic plot.

 

Later on in the semester we also watched The 7th Voyage of Sinbad.  Man, I had cool 7th grade teachers.

[Mindymoo]

I believe I read that they shot The Most Dangerous Game on the sets of King Kong. Nonetheless, I was kind of bummed that they changed the story and added a scantily-clad chick into it, even if it was Faye Wray. The story was compelling enough on its own.

[Charlie Baker]

I catch stuff on TCM during the day when I should be doing other things...but sometimes it's more than mere distraction.  I wasn't planning on watching Heat Lightning yesterday, but it grabbed me and held me.  (And it was only a little over an hour long.)  There are lots of similarities with The Petrified Forest--a remote desert outpost/cafe/auto stop happens to have some crooks on the lam pass through.  Both movies were based on plays, but HL predates Petrified Forest and the origin play was not a success. The cast in this is pretty strong, including such reliable players as Jane Darwell and Ruth Donnelly and Glenda Farrell, but the leading lady is Aline MacMahon, who didn't get many opportunities to carry a picture, and she certainly does carry this one.  She's the proprietor of the joint, who escaped her past associations to the desert with her kid sister in tow, and of course one of the bad guys is a man from her past.  She's a tough cookie, and she looks quite beautiful and sensuous, qualities that the actress, as I said, didn't get a lot of chances to demonstrate.  It's a solid little movie of its time with loads of atmosphere, but Ms. MacMahon puts it on another level.

[Rinaldo]

I wasn't planning on watching Heat Lightning yesterday...  There are lots of similarities with The Petrified Forest--a remote desert outpost/cafe/auto stop happens to have some crooks on the lam pass through.  

There are several of those isolated-diner movies (The Petrified Forest always gets invoked), and some are never shown (perhaps justifiably in terms of quality, but I'd like to be able to catch up with them). One, from 1979, is When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder?, Mark Medoff's adaptation of his play, with one of those great grab-bag casts that includes Marjoe Gortner, Candy Clark, Stephanie Faracy, Lee Grant, Hal Linden, Peter Firth, Pat Hingle, and Audra Lindley. 

 

Another is Shack Out on 101, a 1955 programmer with Terry Moore, Frank Lovejoy, Keenan Wynn, and Lee Marvin. The poster crows "Four Men and a Girl!" And TCM has an entry for it, so maybe they've shown it. (And I see that it was issued on Blu-Ray just this year!) I remember one critic listed it as one of his alltime Guilty Pleasures in Film Quarterly years ago.

[LuciaMia]

Just caught the beginning of 'Strange Bargain.'  Alas, Wikipedia let me down with only a one sentence synopsis of the story.  I assume the poor schlub gets exonerated. (When his boss asks him for help in making it look like murder you instantly knew he'd get framed)

So was it really suicide, or did someone really murder him?

Wikipedia is usually my savior for movies that I'm unable to see to the end. It's the one place that usually gives you the whole plot all the way to the finish.  None of this tv guide nonsense of stopping with a kind of '..but will he?"

[aradia22]

I have been meaning to catch This Could Be the Night for years. TCBTN and Double Harness which is coming up on the schedule soon. I only managed to get through about an hour but I love it so far. I might change my mind by the time it's over but right now it feels like one of those perfect "good" movies. Like a baseline movie where everything better is a great movie and everything worse is just OK or terrible. The characters don't really break the mold but they're played really well. Paul Douglas reminds me a lot of Jerry Orbach as Lenny Briscoe. Jean Simmons feels kind of like a sassy Julie Andrews. Personally, I'm not attracted to Anthony Franciosa but he's winning me over and he has a great voice and good line delivery at times. Julie Wilson is like a more statuesque Peggy Lee. Neile Adams is like Leslie Carron with more charisma and acting ability. Hussein Mohammed might be the only Muslim American character I've seen in an old movie and all things considered it's a very human, non-caricaturish portrayal. The movie is just really entertaining. It's a simple story but the pacing is sprightly, the script is good, and the musical numbers keep things exciting. I stopped the movie after Patsy's strip tease number. I'll report back when I've finished it.

[LuciaMia]

Ah, thank you, ispansy.

[aradia22]

I finished up This Could Be The Night. I think it lost a bit of momentum in the second hour. The last two Ivy numbers were less dynamic compared to the other musical numbers and the pacing of the romantic plot kind of dragged a little. It lost the sense of fun. But it was well written and I ended up being invested in the romance because of the performances of the two leads. I just felt like there were more "scenes" in the second half that seemed more artificial as though this were an adaptation of a book or TV show that had been condensed into vignettes. Going back to the classroom, saving her at the other club, the taxi thing... It wasn't exactly the same thing as having action setpieces but it felt very staged in a way that the first half didn't. It was clear what the ending implied but still, I'm not a big fan of non-endings. Regardless, I'd definitely recommend watching it. Very solid script and good performances. This is one of my new favorites.

[LuciaMia]

Well, blow me down!  Just noticed at the TCM website, there's an option next to the one sentence outline of the movie;  saying 'read full synopsis'.  Which is just that, the entire plot from beginning to end.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Another is Shack Out on 101, a 1955 programmer with Terry Moore, Frank Lovejoy, Keenan Wynn, and Lee Marvin. The poster crows "Four Men and a Girl!" And TCM has an entry for it, so maybe they've shown it.

Yes,  a few times.  It turns up regularly I'd guess because of Lee Marvin (who is the most charismatic and riveting

Communist spy posing as a

dishwasher in a greasy seaside spoon ever, although my main interest when I first saw it was Frank Lovejoy, who I admire for his brilliant radio work, very good here in a bascially thankless ridiculous role.  I was delighted by this wacked-out anti-Communist story - it sort of takes place in the same universe as Kiss Me Deadly in the sense that it supposedly deals with the Important Issues Of The Day but is completely batty in the best possible way.    I also enjoy this glimpse into the pre-60's California beach culture, before it was an expensive place to live or own a business.  B-movie dreck at its inspired best.

 

ETA: forgot to mention that of course my other reason for watching this was Terry Moore, who was so moving in Mighty Joe Young and who I've hardly seen in anything else - although a glance at the IMDB shows me that she worked a lot.

Edited September 12, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[Bastet]

I caught Robert Osborne and Alec Baldwin discussing Design for Living, specifically the intricacies of the sexual relationships between the three principals, and wound up watching the film again - even though it's probably my least-favorite offering from Lubitsch, who is on the whole one of my favorite directors - to see if I thought there was anything going on between the characters played by Fredric March and Gary Cooper, as I'd always just taken it that Miriam Hopkins' character was sleeping with both of them, not that they were all sleeping together. 

 

And I still think the gay subtext of the play is missing (which wouldn't be a surprise, really, since virtually nothing of the play remains).  But then I think I'm missing something by not seeing it (as a rule, I'm neither blind to such subtext nor prone to seeing it everywhere).  So I'm curious to hear the thoughts of others who've seen the film. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Bastet

[Rinaldo]

I'm with you, @Bastet -- I can't see any point at which the pairing of the two men survived the move to film, even as subtext. It's wishful thinking, I think, and maybe the actors themselves indulged in it (I don't know about that one way or the other), but to my eye it's pretty completely obliterated.

 

On the play Design for Living itself: I've read and seen it, and it's not all that explicit that the two men "slept together" slept together, either. I guess it couldn't be, at that date. The implication is certainly there for those awake to it, when they both show up in pajamas in the last scene having hung out together the night before and just crashed in the apartment. The whole play, I find, doesn't live up to what one hopes for in advance: something daring and and racy for the period. People stand around and talk talk talk for the longest time, then they re-pair and go off, and it happens again in a later year in a new combination in a different city. It must have largely served as a vehicle for the charisma of three star performers (the author and the Lunts).

[Julia]

I actually have thoughts about that last, but I think I should take them to Theatre Talk.

[magicdog]

"Friday Night Spotlight" features pre-Code films (including several of Myrna

Loy's, so I'm doubly happy) and includes two airings of the Thou Shalt Not

documentary my satellite decided to crap out 10 minutes into last time.

 

I got to see one of those films - "Night Nurse", with Barbara Stanwick & and VERY young Clark Gable!  No mustasche!  My dad told me my grandmother had it bad for Gable.. and despite his role in this film, I can see why. 

 

Weirder still is the ending, which would never have passed the production code,  

 

 

Stanwyck's character falls for a bootlegger who helps her during the course of the film. She plays a nurse who's tending to rich but ill children. Gable plays the chauffer who is trying to kill the kids to get at their inheritence. After beating on Stanwyk's character and just being vicious, he gets his comeuppance when it's revealed the bootlegger mentions he had him whacked! Then we get a lighthearted ending with the two of them laughing and being all care free!

[Bastet]

I've said before that Night Nurse is one of those films I have to watch whenever it's on.  I love pre-Code Stanwyck, but I particularly enjoy that film.  Including the ending.

 

Red-Headed Woman is another one with an ending that would decidedly not have passed muster once the Code was enforced, but I don't get the same enjoyment out of that one. 

[aradia22]

I have been watching Every Girl Should Be Married (1948) over the past few days. I'm almost done but I was having some TV issues. It's a funny little movie because the protagonist is terribly unlikable. I'm sure lots of people who would watch this movie would dislike her. I haven't seen every terrible rom-com but she ranks right up there with the worst of them. The movie seems to go back and forth on that point. It acknowledges how terrible and ridiculous she is but after every set back it lets her keep chugging right along and at times it seems to sympathize with her. I'd be interested to compare the source material to the movie and any changes made after a man adapted something written by a woman. Cary Grant is charming as ever. Betsy Drake manages to be expressive but not too broad, not cartoonish enough to be a complete joke. She's a caricature but not so big that she's entirely unbelievable. The script is pretty good. There's a lot of silliness in it and not the best gender politics but it's fairly well written and witty in places. I do think Anabel is an awful, conniving little nitwit. It's hard to ever fully sympathize with her. When she had her little cry after Dr. Brown put her in her place once and for all (not done yet but I'm sure that's not true) I felt nothing. You've been awful. You can't expect me to feel bad for you after you've been awful. 

 

One thing that bothers me is the cause of Anabel's relentless pursuit. What does she love about Dr. Brown? Yeah, Cary Grant is good looking. Is there more to it than that because it seems like she's just convinced herself to fall in love with him. It's hard to empathize with her pursuit and want her to achieve her goals. Also, again, she's awful. Never mind reversing the genders... is this supposed to be empowering? She stalks and browbeats this poor man she barely knows. He's a bachelor but he's going out on dates. What if there is someone he's really interested in? We'll never know. Also, poor Diana. Why is she friends with this terrible, selfish girl who drags her into her problems?

[Julia]

One thing that bothers me is the cause of Anabel's relentless pursuit. What does she love about Dr. Brown? Yeah, Cary Grant is good looking. Is there more to it than that because it seems like she's just convinced herself to fall in love with him. It's hard to empathize with her pursuit and want her to achieve her goals. Also, again, she's awful. Never mind reversing the genders... is this supposed to be empowering? 

 

He's affluent, he's got a prestigious job, and as a pediatrician he can be assumed to like and be good with (lots of) children.

 

I think they were going for the feel of Bringing Up Baby, which if it wasn't for Katherine Hepburn would be the equally annoying story of a remarkably silly girl stalking Cary Grant like prey. I think in the end the problem was that Betsy Drake wasn't much of an actor or any kind of a comedian, so the whole thing fell of its own weight. 

Edited September 17, 2014 by Julia

[Milburn Stone]

I think in the end the problem was that Betsy Drake wasn't much of an actor or any kind of a comedian, so the whole thing fell of its own weight. 

 

I can't keep Betsy Drake separate from Betsy Blair. Two Betsys with five-letter last names, who resemble each other, and who were married to male stars much more famous and successful than they were. Although Drake has a certain charm which, for me, is absent in Blair, who is sometimes off-putting to the point of actually scaring me a little. So I guess that's how I can tell them apart.

[Lois Sandborne]

I can't keep Betsy Drake separate from Betsy Blair. Two Betsys with five-letter last names, who resemble each other, and who were married to male stars much more famous and successful than they were.

 

I used to have the same problem, because I didn't know that Betsy Blair was married to Gene Kelly.  Now I basically do keep them straight by their husbands.

 

Drake is a non-event for me, but I like Betsy Blair. It's probably just the kind of emotional soft touch I am, but I find her extremely moving in her small role in The Snake Pit, and she was very tender as Clara in Marty.  Plus I like her politics.

 

But I popped in the thread because last night I watched the second-grossest little time capsule my DVR ever caught from TCM.  I set it to get all of Monday morning's Fay Wray block, because I haven't seen a lot of her outside of King Kong.  So I watched Ann Carver's Profession, in which Wray builds a reputation as an attorney with the sensational case of a black woman suing her white former fiance for breach of promise.  Only, get this, the whole defense is built on the fact that the woman was passing, so who can blame a guy for dumping her?  At one point, Wray's character parades half a dozen girls into court and demands the plaintiff's attorney choose which 3 are white and which are black; my jaw literally dropped, and it hardly ever does that.

 

I did like Wray in all the films, though, so at least there's that.  Her performances all had a nice earthiness and sincerity.

 

(Incidentally, the Number 1 Grossest time capsule I ever recorded so far is a film called Smarty, which I wanted to see because it stars my beloved Edward Everett Horton as the third wheel in Joan Blondell and Warren William's marriage, but turns out it's a goofy morality play about how some women just need a good smacking sometimes.  It was also originally released as Hit Me Again, Darling. I was tempted to leave it on the DVR for posterity and infamy, but I'm sure it's being taught in all kinds of Gender Studies programs across the country, so I figured I didn't need to hang on to it.)

[ratgirlagogo]

 

-"Night Nurse"

"You - you - you... MOTHER!"

 

Damn, that just never gets old for me.  I love Night Nurse.

[aradia22]

 

He's affluent, he's got a prestigious job, and as a pediatrician he can be assumed to like and be good with (lots of) children.

Right, but she started falling for him before she knew any of that. He was just a handsome man who reached for a magazine with a baby on the cover. And then there's no clear reason why she goes after him when he so clearly isn't interested when there are plenty of other men who might fit the vague list of things she wants. It's more like she forces herself to love every little thing about him when she could probably find someone else that would suit her. 

 

Also, the damn TV is on the fritz again. And it's my day off, too. 

[Julia]

Right, but she started falling for him before she knew any of that. He was just a handsome man who reached for a magazine with a baby on the cover. And then there's no clear reason why she goes after him when he so clearly isn't interested when there are plenty of other men who might fit the vague list of things she wants. It's more like she forces herself to love every little thing about him when she could probably find someone else that would suit her. 

 

Oh, it's not my argument. I think the character was repulsively shallow, manipulative and dishonest, and I didn't for a minute think anyone worthwhile would have been interested in her. Happily for the two of them, that little scene with Eddie Albert made it clear that the Cary Grant character was equally as manipulative and dishonest, and seemed to really get a kick out of being smarter than she is and using his advantage to jerk her around right back. I think the idea is that as long as he dislikes and distrusts women, he might as well marry one who's too dumb to successfully take advantage of him.

 

So, everybody's kind of gross. No harm no foul. Except I won't get that hour and change back.

[aradia22]

I finished Every Girl Should Be Married. That was a lackluster ending. I have nothing much to add to what I said before but I think this might have been helped by a stronger ending. I do agree with your point about them seeming like a good match with Brown also being a liar.

[mariah23]

Quick question for all TCM fans.  What has been the favorite movie or theme so far this month?

[Bastet]

The pre-Code spotlight, definitely (and I love that they're sprinkling them throughout, rather than only airing them on Fridays), but I also enjoyed the Lauren Bacall marathon. 

[Milburn Stone]

Sometimes I look on the grid to see what Fox Movie Channel (the ugly stepsister of TCM) is showing. Yesterday I was surprised to see some kind of "theme" to the day's offerings. Every movie had a number in its title. I couldn't decide whether the attempt to imitate TCM was pathetic or adorable.

[Bastet]

Maybe the fact TCM just did that very theme (with 13) a few months ago tips it toward pathetic?

 

I love spotting the themes TCM comes up with, especially when they're not recognizable by the title or cast (e.g. films all set in the same city, films in which the main character is a certain profession).

[ratgirlagogo]

 

The pre-Code spotlight, definitely

Seconded.  They can never do enough of the movies from that time period to suit me anyway, racy or not. 

[dalek]

Quick question for all TCM fans.  What has been the favorite movie or theme so far this month?

 

 

The Projected Image: The Jewish Experience on Film.  I'd never seen Hill 24 Doesn't Answer before.

[aradia22]

I watched Red-Headed Woman today. I'm trying to like Jean Harlow but it's just not happening. I'm sorry, the pencil thin eyebrows just don't do it for me. And her heavy lids just make her look sleepy or bored most of the time. In the beginning they kept showing off her legs but putting her in shapeless outfits. I guess I saw Adrian and expected an explosion of ruffles. The spangly fringe dress caught the light beautifully in black and white but it was still kind of shapeless. The script isn't awful but it's full of cliches and it's kind of obvious and exaggerated. There's no ambiguity to Lil/Red. I kind of liked seeing her best friend character and the boss she was pursuing because I recognized them. I think Chester Morris worked here better than in The Divorcee because we were aligned with the mistress' perspective and not the wife's and we knew she was just purely scheming and awful and we saw him putting up a good fight. I forget the other movie I saw Una in. Or maybe I'm confusing her with another blond best friend. It's possible. The Irene character did look pretty in some of her dresses. Oh, and the hats were adorable. Now, I get that in pre-Code movies evil characters didn't have to be punished but I felt like the movie didn't have any consequences.

Bill and Irene just got back together in the end and seemed happy. He wasn't an alcoholic even though they made a big deal about him drinking a lot earlier. She shot him but he didn't die. He didn't press charges. Lil just went on courting rich men and carrying on with her chaffeur. What was the point of me watching this?

 

Overall, there are just better movies. I'd recommend Wife vs. Secretary or Baby Face over this. The lack of subtlety makes it more interesting for the pre-Code factor and not the movie on its own merits. 

[Bastet]

I forget the other movie I saw Una in.

 

I'd be amazed if you only saw her in one other film; she worked a lot from the '30s through the '60s.  In her younger days, she was often the best friend.  (And, of course, she later delighted as Verbena in The Parent Trap.)

[ratgirlagogo]

 

The lack of subtlety makes it more interesting for the pre-Code factor and not the movie on its own merits.

Frankly this is something that kind of annoys me about  Pre-Code Mania as a whole, even though I benefit from it hugely since it means the late silent/early sound films in general get shown much more than they used to be. 

 

I'd be amazed if you only saw her in one other film;

I'd be amazed also.  Although if there was just one I'd be betting it was 42nd Street.

Edited September 22, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[aradia22]

I decided to follow up Red-Headed Woman with A Woman's Face because I make weird decisions like that.

The dreamy opening credits are kind of at odds with the harshness of the three people walking down the corridor which begins the movie.

Also, did they let the defendant wear a hat in court for a murder case?

The set in the woods could have been done better. If that was in the original play I wish they'd have changed it or just kept the action indoors. What was with the two woman spinning around in evening gowns doing a waltz(?). Weird. I started to worry if this was going to be one of those "artistic" movies where people just act crazy because art. I haven't gotten into the German expressionism, French new wave, etc. movies yet.

I think they handled the reveal nicely showing her face very little in the courtroom and building up to the big moment but not overplaying it. The makeup is fine but it leaves a little to be desired. I wonder how they'll explain the scar because it looks like they slapped some clay on her face and then dug into it with a palette knife. Basically, it wouldn't pass muster on Face Off. I did like that Baring's expression didn't change when he saw her face.

It did get a little campy in the confrontation scene with the letters but other than that, they're not playing it too crazy. She seems slightly unhinged at times going for a gun because they put a mirror on her door but the rest of the time she seems fine.

I haven't quite been thinking about it but I feel like the framing device doesn't work. If we're to believe this is all testimony then some witnesses are testifying about scenes they weren't present for.

There's a weird balance to this. It's not exactly a rom-com but it has the feel of one of the lighter dramas/slightly serious comedies mixed in with the criminal plot. The criminal plot lacks a sense of urgency or ominousness because of it.

I think Joan played the piano in The Last of Mrs. Cheyney as well. Could she really play?

I wonder if this an accurate depiction of a hospital setting at this time. It played out very much like the Eye of the Beholder episode of The Twilight Zone.

OK, halfway through the movie

when she got her face fixed this became a spin off of And Then There Were None.

I can't explain why some black and white movies looks fabulous and some look terrible. I can only say that sometimes I notice all the textures, the fur, the hair, the flowers, the fabric of the clothes, and sometimes everything looks muddy or dull.

Random and unexplained mix of accents for all the characters.

Oh, of course the little boy is the cutest, littlest precocious orphan.

Ben's intro said that Melvyn and Joan made 4 movies together. I might have to look out for them on the schedule if one of them's a romance. Again, their dynamic is weird and off. It feels like it should be in a movie with a different plot.

She carried that boy like he was a broom.

When did the doctor become an action hero riding around on coal buckets? And then the high speed sleigh chase? What?

I predicted very early (not long after we met

him

) who she would have killed but I wasn't sure of the how and why.

Interesting choice to go with the nonending. Though the HEA was heavily implied.

 

I feel like if you go into this movie wanting camp, you'll be disappointed because it's camp but not camp enough and if you go into it wanting a straight drama or romance you'll be confused. Really, this is a curiosity that isn't the most entertaining but might be worth it for Joan Crawford fans like me. It's watchable but not a must watch.

Edited September 22, 2014 by aradia22

[3pwood]

I'm trying to like Jean Harlow but it's just not happening.

 

Have you seen Red Dust &/or Dinner at Eight?  I like Harlow in anything, but those 2 are objectively wonderful movies that most people seem to love regardless of how they feel about Harlow.

[Bastet]

I like Harlow in her atypical role in Wife vs. Secretary; with her typical roles, a little goes a long way for me -- the foursome in Libeled Lady makes for the perfect amount of screen time.  But Dinner at Eight is thoroughly entertaining. I think that's the Harlow litmus test; if you don't enjoy her in that, you'll just never like her.  (Plus, you get Marie Dressler as a bonus.)

Edited September 23, 2014 by Bastet

[Julia]

I still think Jezabel is a far better movie than Gone with the Wind.  Scarlett is a tough selfish girl in the beginning and a tough selfish woman in the end, no better no change.  Julie is a stubborn girl in the beginning and a selfless woman in the end, serious growth.

 

I don't agree about that. Scarlett, as awful as she is, isn't too awful for her family to leech off of and the old ladies to headhunt her child and her dowry for their grandsons. By the end of the movie, she's been carrying everyone in sight while they make a show of standing upwind so they won't be tainted by her vulgarity. Don't get me wrong, she's an awful person, but she spends as much of the movie taking care of other people as Melanie does. Not cheerfully, but she does it.

 

Now Julie, on the other hand, literally never did anything for anyone until the last minute, and I think that was more about getting Henry Fonda's character away from his wife and redeeming her reputation after that thing where she got George Brent killed trying to murder Henry by proxy out of sheer petulance.  I didn't believe she thought she was going to die. Hell, her whole argument for being the one who went was that his Quaker wife wasn't going to be able to make the (african american) inmates of the death island take her orders, the way Julie's plantation white mojo would.

 

Blech.

[Julia]

Julie sacrificed her life.  She could have let Pres and the wife go and never looked back.  Scarlett would have.

 

Scarlett didn't. She stayed with Mellie in Atlanta. And again, I don't think Julie believed she was going to die.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Julia

[aradia22]

 

Have you seen Red Dust &/or Dinner at Eight?  I like Harlow in anything, but those 2 are objectively wonderful movies that most people seem to love regardless of how they feel about Harlow.

 

I like Harlow in her atypical role in Wife vs. Secretary; with her typical roles, a little goes a long way for me -- the foursome in Libeled Lady makes for the perfect amount of screen time.  But Dinner at Eight is thoroughly entertaining. I think that's the Harlow litmus test; if you don't enjoy her in that, you'll just never like her.  (Plus, you get Marie Dressler as a bonus.)

 

I thought she was fine in Wife vs. Secretary but she never took the movie over from Clark Gable and Myrna Loy. I've yet to see Red Dust because I'm still grumpy about the DVR situation ruining my Red Dust/Mogambo double feature and Libeled Lady might have to wait because I have an irrational dislike of Spencer Tracy.\

 

I still think Jezabel is a far better movie than Gone with the Wind.  Scarlett is a tough selfish girl in the beginning and a tough selfish woman in the end, no better no change.  Julie is a stubborn girl in the beginning and a selfless woman in the end, serious growth.

I feel like we had this conversation on TWoP. I've never seen GWTW in its entirety in one sitting but I'm on the Scarlett side simply because Jezebel is super underwhelming. First you've got a muddy black and white film against the gorgeous lushness of GWTW. Then you've got blah George Brent and Henry Fonda against one of my favorite classic actors Clark Gable (and Leslie Howard but really it's just all Clark Gable for me). There's not much to the story of Jezebel and I just found it terribly boring. 

 

I didn't believe she thought she was going to die. Hell, her whole argument for being the one who went was that his Quaker wife wasn't going to be able to make the (african american) inmates of the death island take her orders, the way Julie's plantation white mojo would.

Yes, also questionable racial politics with nothing behind them. You can write essays about race in GWTW. There is nothing that interesting to say about Jezebel.

[3pwood]

There is nothing that interesting to say about Jezebel.

 

Except Bette Davis, which is more than enough (for me, anyhow).

[Julia]

Except Bette Davis, which is more than enough (for me, anyhow).

It is for me too, in most movies. Even the ones like Mrs. Skeffington and The Little Foxes, where her character was awful from beginning to end. The redemption in Jezebel just didn't register with me.

[aradia22]

 

 

There is nothing that interesting to say about Jezebel.

Except Bette Davis, which is more than enough (for me, anyhow).

I was referring to the racial politics in Jezebel.

 

Changing gears, I had time to kill earlier so I decided to watch The Office Wife. I do not recommend it. It didn't really go anywhere and I felt nothing for the characters. Well, that's not true. I liked Ms. Andrews. I think I would have liked the movie more if it was about Ms. Andrews and not the random blond girl who fell in love with her much older boss for... reasons. There was nothing compelling about their relationship and nothing to the performances or script that would merit a watch. 

[dalek]

Gentleman's Agreement was on last night (in a double bill with Crossfire). I ended up rewatching part of it.  I've never been entirely sure how I feel about it.  for one thing, I've always thought Gregory Peck's character should have ended up with Celeste Holm's character rather than Dorothy Maguire's.  Also, while the movie has it's message-driven heart in the right place, having read a bit of the film's history, I can't help but wonder if the audience at the time missed the point.  Apparently, they did an exit poll after a showing of the movie and the consensus opinion of the audience was that going forward they should be nice to Jews because they might really be gentiles in disguise.

[Julia]

Gentleman's Agreement was on last night (in a double bill with Crossfire). I ended up rewatching part of it. I've never been entirely sure how I feel about it. for one thing, I've always thought Gregory Peck's character should have ended up with Celeste Holm's character rather than Dorothy Maguire's.

Absolutely. Celeste Holms' character is a great broad. Dorothy McGuire's was sulky, selfish and humorless. I never understood how they made that character a symbol of refined cowardice who valued the good opinion of racists more than any principles she was supposed to have and then expected the audience to be pleased that she was going to be raising the man's child. I imagine Elia Kazan identified with the ephemeral nature of her convictions.

Apparently, they did an exit poll after a showing of the movie and the consensus opinion of the audience was that going forward they should be nice to Jews because they might really be gentiles in disguise.

I don't necessarily think they missed the point of the movie. You could argue that was the message.

I get a kick out of the fact that the self-hating secretary was Baby June from Gypsy.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Julia

[Bastet]

Gentleman's Agreement was on last night (in a double bill with Crossfire). I ended up rewatching part of it. I've never been entirely sure how I feel about it.

 

I think Dean Stockwell gives the film's best performance, which is sort of a backhanded compliment; I just don't think the cast works very well in this one.  Gregory Peck I normally like, and he's not bad in this, but he's not particularly compelling, either.  Dorothy McGuire I'm almost always "meh" about, and this is no exception.  Celeste Holm is better, and has the better character, so seeing Peck go off with McGuire instead is a bit disappointing.  I don't even much like Anne Revere's performance in this one.  Maybe I want the film to be more than it is, but I find it a letdown.