Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Souris]

I'll be happy if the one kid turns out to be a young Apprentice. I imagine we'd have to see him in a flashback eventually (like how he met Merlin, or why he's a zillion times older than him).

 

If they play off the legend, Merlin has been imprisoned in stasis in a tree. But somehow still able to communicate with the Apprentice and make side trips to Minnesota to visit wee Emma.

[PixiePaws1]

I feel depressed because when I saw the sneak peek with Merida wanting to fight Emma I immediately pictured Emma getting angry during the fight and Killian & company find her just as she rips out Merida's heart and this is where Killian talks her down from crushing it.

I so, so don't want Emma crossing a moral line she can't live with after she is (mostly) freed of the DO....but trying to steel myself for the worst.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm gonna have to stop lurking in the ouat spoilers tag on tumblr. Too much anti-cs/anti-hook stuff.

The ouat spoilers tag on tumblr is a scary, scary place.

 

I have a seen a theory about the final twist that I hate so it's possibly true, and it's that Dark Swan is going to take Hook's heart. We know A&E love to repeat themselves, so the DO taking Hook's heart again is totally up their alley. And it would put Emma at Regina's level of ickiness. 

[Mathius]

I still hate that they're going with this Regina vs. Hook when it comes to Emma angle, since A&E are WELL AWARE of the ship war between SQ vs. CS, and must KNOW how this angle is going to effect that. On Tumblr especially, you can prepare to see lots of "f*** off Hook, Regina's the one who REALLY loves Emma!" reactions to these moments. It's ridiculous and needless.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

I feel depressed because when I saw the sneak peek with Merida wanting to fight Emma I immediately pictured Emma getting angry during the fight and Killian & company find her just as she rips out Merida's heart and this is where Killian talks her down from crushing it.

I think this scenario is very likely what happens. In fact, I remember filming pics that seemed to indicate that.

ETA: I never go into the general tags on tumblr. I stick to my dash.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Rumsy4

[FierceAfroChick]

I still hate that they're going with this Regina vs. Hook when it comes to Emma angle, since A&E are WELL AWARE of the ship war between SQ vs. CS, and must KNOW how this angle is going to effect that. On Tumblr especially, you can prepare to see lots of "f*** off Hook, Regina's the one who REALLY loves Emma!" reactions to these moments. It's ridiculous and needless.

 

I’m with you on this.  I was looking forward to it until I saw the sneak peeks and read more spoilers.  I just can’t see them letting Hook win any of these verbal skirmishes that they’ve spoiled, not when it comes to their Queen.  The fact that his plan backfires and Regina is the one who saves the day is proof of the same old same old.  I was hoping they’d get away from writing Hook as a bumbling damsel-in-distress.

 

I feel depressed because when I saw the sneak peek with Merida wanting to fight Emma I immediately pictured Emma getting angry during the fight and Killian & company find her just as she rips out Merida's heart and this is where Killian talks her down from crushing it.

 

 

Spoilers say their will be two incidents of ripping out a heart...I can see this being one.  Curious about the other but also kind of weary of this plot device.

Edited September 25, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[Curio]

The fact that his plan backfires and Regina is the one who saves the day is proof of the same old same old.

 

But technically, Hook's plan does work in the end...Regina is just the one who executes it and will probably get all the credit because TS;TW. Hook says to Regina in the sneak peek that they need someone wicked, so using Zelena is Hook's brain child. And then I'm guessing Regina shoots down their only legitimate option for opening a portal because of her own personal issues with her sister, so Hook goes ahead with it anyways because that's a terrible excuse for not wanting to help Emma. If Hook doesn't go and free Zelena, Regina doesn't get the opportunity to save the day later in the episode.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Curio

[Serena]

I still hate that they're going with this Regina vs. Hook when it comes to Emma angle, since A&E are WELL AWARE of the ship war between SQ vs. CS, and must KNOW how this angle is going to effect that. On Tumblr especially, you can prepare to see lots of "f*** off Hook, Regina's the one who REALLY loves Emma!" reactions to these moments. It's ridiculous and needless.

A&E shouldn't base their writing decisions for the show on what a bunch of children will do on Tumblr. As far as I'm concerned, it makes a lot of sense for Regina and Hook to be antagonistic this way, and as long as their reactions continue to make sense for me, I couldn't care less about people getting worked up on Tumblr. Let's be real, if it wasn't this, it would be the way Hook styles his hair that they find "triggering"; they really don't need any excuse.

But technically, Hook's plan does work in the end...Regina is just the one who executes it and will probably get all the credit because TS;TW. Hook says to Regina in the sneak peek that they need someone wicked, so using Zelena is Hook's brain child. And then I'm guessing Regina shoots down their only legitimate option for opening a portal because of her own personal issues with her sister, so Hook goes ahead with it anyways because that's a terrible excuse for not wanting to help Emma. If Hook doesn't go and free Zelena, Regina doesn't get the opportunity to save the day later in the episode.

Exactly. Now, is it possible that Regina will get all the credit, like with Neverland or freeing the Blue Fairy, when other people did the work as much as her? Maybe. But they're not writing it like she's the only one doing the work, and from all accounts Hook is very proactive in the premiere and is the one to talk Emma from the edge, so I don't have any problems with it. I've made my peace with the fact that characters on the show will give credit to Regina only even when it's ridiculous to do so because she has a ridiculously fragile ego and the tendency to murder when she has a bad hair day. Edited September 25, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

The fact that his plan backfires and Regina is the one who saves the day is proof of the same old same old.

 

Ultimately though, he's the one who comes up with the Zelena idea. I haven't seen the episode, but I'm assuming Regina shuts down that idea quickly. So his plan might backfire, but the longer Regina takes to come up with a plan that suits her needs, the worst it gets for Emma. I know they said Regina steps into a leadership role, but to be a good leader, you have to work as a team, even if your title is team leader. 

[Mathius]

Right, I hear people saying they like that Regina and Hook are finally interacting again and that finally someone verbally challenges Regina, but honestly the challenge factor just makes it worse because there is no way he is going to be allowed to win against her, and with the whole "save Emma" mission, it is painfully obvious which one A&E is going to have accomplish the goal in the end. The SQers will have a field day and yet AGAIN receive some form of validation and rewarding despite being the most toxic, bullying subset of the entire fandom.

A&E shouldn't base their writing decisions for the show on what a bunch of children will do on Tumblr

They shouldn't, but they do. They did for most of Season 4 and they'll do it again, because no matter what anyone says they just cannot be convinced that the way they do things might be to the show's detriment.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Mathius

[Souris]

I have a seen a theory about the final twist that I hate so it's possibly true, and it's that Dark Swan is going to take Hook's heart. We know A&E love to repeat themselves, so the DO taking Hook's heart again is totally up their alley. And it would put Emma at Regina's level of ickiness. 

 

I'll put your mind at ease: No, that's not it.

[FierceAfroChick]

I'll put your mind at ease: No, that's not it.

 

Thank you!

 

But technically, Hook's plan does work in the end...Regina is just the one who executes it and will probably get all the credit because TS;TW. Hook says to Regina in the sneak peek that they need someone wicked, so using Zelena is Hook's brain child. And then I'm guessing Regina shoots down their only legitimate option for opening a portal because of her own personal issues with her sister, so Hook goes ahead with it anyways because that's a terrible excuse for not wanting to help Emma. If Hook doesn't go and free Zelena, Regina doesn't get the opportunity to save the day later in the episode.

 

I shouldn't be so touchy when it comes to Regina, should I?  Can't help it.  Keep replaying that scene where she comes upon that wedding party and crushes the poor groom's heart for no reason.  She should in no way be in the Charming family fold, but I'm going to just take the positives from your post and hope for the best.

 

BTW, I was hoping to solve the TS;TW riddle on my own, but can't figure it out...what does it mean?

[Scovies]

 

Spoilers say their will be two incidents of ripping out a heart...I can see this being one.  Curious about the other but also kind of weary of this plot device.

 

When they were filming 5x1 and had that standoff with Zelena in the street over the wand, weren't some people speculating that Zelena had Robin's heart?

 

Speaking of which -- there's your solution! Have Regina take out Zelena's heart, remove the magic cuff, and force Zelena to create a portal. 

[Souris]

BTW, I was hoping to solve the TS;TW riddle on my own, but can't figure it out...what does it mean?

 

This Show, These Writers.

[Curio]

Speaking of which -- there's your solution! Have Regina take out Zelena's heart, remove the magic cuff, and force Zelena to create a portal. 

 

A plan so simple, the writers never even thought of it.

[YaddaYadda]

I think Zelena only puts the choke on Robin because she wants the wand. I don't she takes his heart. That's one thing we've never seen Zelena do, I think, take someone's heart.

[LizaD]

 

A plan so simple, the writers never even thought of it.

 

Well that's because they're not writing for a plot to get to a story point. The way they did stuff its obvious to see the intent behind it. 1. Have Hook vs Woegina 2. Get Zelena involved in the main crew 3. Use the Apprentice to drop more stupid "mysterious" statements about Merlin

 

There's plenty of ways to get to Emma. All the apprentice had to say was to find a way back to the EF and they have about a million ways to do so now. If he knew all DOs have to be "reborn" then he sure as hell knows where they're reborn. But no he wants to make them all think like Rump and find the hardest, most complicated way to do something.

[YaddaYadda]

EW Spoiler Room

 

Please tell me anything about Once Upon a Time before its return! — Jennifer

A reveal in the premiere shows that Camelot ties into the early mythology of the show in a very major way. Even my head exploded a little bit when I saw this brilliant twist.

 

So about this...I'm assuming we are talking about Emma. So are they actually adding something to her already existing connection to Camelot? Because she technically already has one through Lancelot.

[Serena]

I cannot believe the official OUAT Twitter *tweeted* that THR article that was obviously meant to go live after the premiere. They don't even read what they tweet.

[KingOfHearts]

So about this...I'm assuming we are talking about Emma. So are they actually adding something to her already existing connection to Camelot? Because she technically already has one through Lancelot.

Well there's Emma, The Dark Curse and the Dark One's Dagger. I'm pretty sure it's one of those three things.

[YaddaYadda]

Well there's Emma, The Dark Curse and the Dark One's Dagger. I'm pretty sure it's one of those three things.

The prophecy...

[Curio]

Damn, I'm tempted to not discuss that Hollywood Reporter interview because of how spoilery it is...and it was clearly not meant to be reported yet.

[YaddaYadda]

No, it was not, but at least it explains why Arthur and the knights are attacked by the dwarfs, doesn't explain Regina's line about how she should've taken care of this in Camelot though.

Edited September 25, 2015 by stacey
Do not use Spoiler Tags in topic please.

[FierceAfroChick]

Dayum...they took that article down with a quickness!

[Souris]

I think that article wasn't supposed to go up until AFTER the premiere, because there was a question in it, "What did you think of the premiere?"

 

[Curio]

Oh, but the Internet never forgets.

 

Edit: Maybe we should see what the mods think. Technically, the information is out there to read, and this is a spoilers thread...

Edited September 25, 2015 by Curio

[RadioGirl27]

Now that I know the final twist I've lost like 90% of the interest I had in the season, and it was already really slim.

[FierceAfroChick]

Now that I know the final twist I've lost like 90% of the interest I had in the season, and it was already really slim.

 

Uh oh.  This sounds bad.  I think I'm going to avoid spoilers until the show airs. 

[Curio]

Now that I know the final twist I've lost like 90% of the interest I had in the season, and it was already really slim.

 

If they execute it better than the last time they attempted this plot device, it could actually be pretty interesting. Let's just hope they don't wrap up huge mysteries in 20 second monologues like they did with Hook's bean adventure.

[Serena]

I'm gonna keep using spoiler quotes for the THR thing because it was clearly a mistake. At least until the mods tell us otherwise.

 

I'm interested in the twist. I hope they realized how bad they botched the *very* interesting premise in 3B, and this is their (hopefully better) re-do. The fact that the characters don't know WHY Emma went bad and she's not telling makes me think there'll be some kind of twist where she's faking and this is some kind of long con.

Edited September 25, 2015 by stacey
Do not use Spoiler Tags in topic please.

[YaddaYadda]

Now that I know the final twist I've lost like 90% of the interest I had in the season, and it was already really slim.

 

I love it. I think it's a clever way of doing it.

[formerlyfreedom]

Oh, but the Internet never forgets.

 

Edit: Maybe we should see what the mods think. Technically, the information is out there to read, and this is a spoilers thread...

 

This is the Spoilers thread - Spoiler tags will be removed if used if used in here. That's the whole purpose of the topic, so if you don't want to know something, this will be the place to avoid!

[Sabs]

I didn't get to read the article, and I want to be spoiled.  Fill me in, please.  What is the twist?  Is it that no one remembers Camelot?

[sharky]

Oh boy, that poor Hollywood Reporter intern. :( Well, I guess this is my time to say goodbye then. I want a few surprises still for Sunday. :)

[Curio]

Fill me in, please. What is the twist? Is it that no one remembers Camelot?

 

Yep. But it sounds like Emma remembers.

[KingOfHearts]

Yep. But it sounds like Emma remembers.

Then how does Regina say, "I should have took care of this in Camelot"?

Ugh. It's a repeat of the Missing Year. Wouldn't it be more clever if the characters knew but the audience didn't? Kind of like flipping 3B's tables? What they're doing is uncreative at this point. It's basically another curse.

 

 

I'm not sure why they're going the memory loss route again. If the Camelot people remember what happened, wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Or did they just forget how Emma went Dark?

Maybe it's their way of avoiding consequences. Someone does something stupid, it gets erased, then when the memories come back so much has happened in the present that no one cares about it any more.

Edited September 25, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Then how does Regina say, "I should have took care of this in Camelot"?

 

Maybe Arthur fills them in. How does he show up in Storybrooke with the rest of Camelot?

 

I've officially moved on from 5x01 and want to know WTF is going in 5x02!

 

Also, Merlin, telling a little girl not to pull the sword from the stone? Hmmm, okay? So if Emma is the Dark One, does that make Arthur the other side of the coin since he did pull sword out of the stone?

[RadioGirl27]

I find this twist incredibly boring and repetitive. What's next? Cursing another of Hook's body parts?

 

They have done this memory loss storyline twice already, with the missing year in season 3 and with Frozen in season 4, and both times they handled it really poorly. So I doubt this time would be better. But, as they say, third time's the charm, I guess.

Edited September 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Rumsy4]

I don't think I'm going to enjoy the premier as much now that I'm completely spoiled. Dang! How could they be so careless?!

I'm not sure why they're going the memory loss route again. If the Camelot people remember what happened, wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Or did they just forget how Emma went Dark?

[Curio]

Then how does Regina say, "I should have took care of this in Camelot"?

 

Maybe Dark Emma fills Regina in on their "you need to destroy me" exchange and taunts her for not following through with that.

 

And can't True Love's kiss just return the memories? Why can't Hook kiss Dark Swan and get his memories back?

Edited September 25, 2015 by Curio

[Amerilla]

Master Storytellers, people. Master Storytellers.

 

And can't True Love's kiss just return the memories? Why can't Hook kiss Dark Swan and get his memories back?

 

Probably, but are they going to waste a CS TLK on that? 

[RadioGirl27]

And can't True Love's kiss just return the memories? Why can't Hook kiss Dark Swan and get his memories back?

They don't even need Emma, Regina can kiss Henry, like she did last time.

[YaddaYadda]

Oh, so this is good, how one spoiler can shed light on other ones, like why the dreamcatcher is being used. 

[Serena]

They don't even need Emma, Regina can kiss Henry, like she did last time.

Unless they took away their own memories on purpose and made it True Love-proof?

 

You can read the whole deleted article here.

[Souris]

I love how thoughtful JMo is about her role (from that EW article). She clearly thinks about stuff more than the writers. And she stressed again that Emma sacrificed herself for the entire town, not just Regina.

[LizaD]

Yeah that spoiler just about zapped any excitement I had for the half-arc. I know I was hoping against hope that they were going to tell a real story and mythology against overwhelming past evidence but damn. They literally are just copying and pasting at this point.

 

So we're in for yet another round of a great big misunderstanding that amounts to petty family soap drama/squabble. You know they're not going to have Emma be justified in her anger in any way because she's never been before, not even against the much maligned Snowing. Annoying Henry and everyone is still alive so any reason she's pissed and went dark is going to be stupid as hell. Really nothing short of someone intentionally causing a miscarriage is going to cut it, for her to use anger to go dark and hello Disney, it can't be that dark. I was hoping she had some weird complicated plan working towards some mysterious goal ala Rump in S1 but that's clearly too much taxing for these writers.

 

Now the quote about her seeking vegeance on her family makes sense. They won't bother with past issues but they'll come up with some silly misunderstanding to throw Emma under an 18 wheeler like usual.

 

 

Well there's Emma, The Dark Curse and the Dark One's Dagger. I'm pretty sure it's one of those three things.

I think we've spec'ed on the dagger a lot and Souris said it hasn't been guessed correctly yet. My new bet is Merlin's tree is baby Emma's tree and that somehow has further implications.

[RadioGirl27]

I love how thoughtful JMo is about her role (from that EW article). She clearly thinks about stuff more than the writers. And she stressed again that Emma sacrificed herself for the entire town, not just Regina.

Yeah, she is great. And I love how she goes on and on about how much Emma and Hook love each other :-)

 

From THR

 

Though the ABC drama has opted to split its recent seasons in half and tell two (mostly) contained stories per year, Horowitz emphasized that the consequences will be long-lasting. "The ramifications ... are felt throughout the entire season," he said. "While a lot of this story in the first half we tend to wrap up in the midseason, there are bigger issues that are introduced as early as [the premiere] that will carry over for the whole season. ... Emma's journey is going to encompass the whole season."

So, after reading this, I think 5A would be Emma as the Dark One and 5B would deal with the consequences of it, for Emma and for her loved ones.

Edited September 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Mathius]

Quick, place bets as to how many seconds will be spent "exploring" what A&E say they'll "explore"!

And OF COURSE there will be long-lasting consequences after EMMA does bad stuff.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Mathius

[KateJones]

So maybe Captain Swan actually do get married in Camelot and it devastates her that he can't remember and causes her to go full on Dark One?

[Scovies]

Fuck it, I don't care. I'm still excited. Bring it on!