S02.E19: Lacey

[Zuleikha]

I expected to hate this episode so the episode description gave away that it was Rumpbelle episode, but I was shocked. I loved it! I not only loved it, but I finally understood how Belle and Rumpel work as a couple (or at least developed an interpretation that fits what I've seen so far and makes sense to me... I can't guarantee it's what the writers intend).

 

Of course, my new understanding has Belle as a not-so-great person. But I finally get it. Belle's not deluded at all! Belle knows exactly how monstrous Rumpel is. She just gets ego gratification from the fact that she can make him refrain from actively doing monstrous things. She doesn't want him to be a good man. She wants him to pretend to be a good man for her. Lacey is just Belle without the socially acceptable filter (at least in terms of Rumpel... I don't think Belle actually wants to go around shooting pool in bars instead of reading books in her library). Maybe they actually are a True Love couple--just a dark, unhealthy, twisted one.

 

Meanwhile, Rumpel appears to be simply about having someone interested in him. Once Lacey expressed interest in him, he didn't seem to care anymore that Lacey's personality is a 180 from Belle. I'm assuming this won't happen, but it will crack me up if the show leaves Belle as Lacey. She's a really good match for Rumpel, as good as Cora. Actually, I tell a lie. It will crack me up if Regina finds a way to break the curse because Lacey is too perfect a match for Rumpel. 

 

When Charming and Snow showed Emma the beans, I turned to my husband and said something like "It seems kind of dumb for Anton to re-grow the beans while people like Rumpel and Regina are running around Storybrooke." And then Regina found the beans, and I felt quite justified. It's like everyone conveniently forgot that all the villains are in Storybrooke, too.

 

This was another plot-light, character-heavy episode, and it was so much better than the plot-heavy/character-light ones. I don't know why this show doesn't realize that it's strength is actually character development. I hope S3 learns from S2 and slows things down a bit. 

[KingOfHearts]

The opening scene doesn't get the credit it deserves. It features Rumple turning Henry into a ceramic statue before shattering him into a hundred pieces. I could watch that on repeat. Up to this point, the dream sequences were just pure entertainment. Don't forget Regina being chained to a tree by the citizens of Storybrooke, getting pierced with a sword by her own son. Belle's dream of Rumple turning back into his sparkly self is also poetic in retrospect. 

Regina asking Rumple what his son was doing with Henry and finding out they were father and son was so great.

I forgot - why was everyone trying to hide the truth about Storybrooke from Belle?

I'm not sure if the production quality just went down or what, but in S2, the makeup on the actors seemed to pop more and the Storybrooke costuming was less drab. 

Spoiler

Belle looked better in a hospital bed than at her own wedding.

I just loved where all the characters were at in this stage of the show. Nobody trusted each other, tensions were high, and it felt like everything was heading towards something. Say what you want about 2B - at least there was a sense of urgency and the characters still had interesting conflicts. 

Spoiler

Then 3B came in, and all of a sudden everyone is perfectly trustworthy. *cough* Rumple and Regina *cough*

Edited January 21, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

This is an episode I've never seen and never will, but I've seen the relevant scenes. @KingOfHearts is correct that the opening scene with Rumpel killing ceramic Henry is awesome and makes me want to cheer. Obviously, I don't approve of Rumpel trying to kill an 11 year old based on a prophecy, especially when he knows the whole prophesy thing isn't ever what it seems, but if it means Henry would be off my screen for the remainder of the show, it wouldn't be something I'd ever hold against Rumpel.

[companionenvy]

I actually liked a lot of this episode, though as usual, there’s a catch or two.

The scene at the bean-field goes a long way to assuaging concerns that David and Snow were considering leaving Emma behind. It is obvious they think she’s going to come with them, and that they are looking at this as a fresh start for their family. I also really appreciate David’s recognition that life has been cruel to Emma, which doesn’t get acknowledged often enough. He may not know all the details, but he gets that she has been through hell and his desire to offer her a new life in the EF is grounded in this awareness. He and Snow are being blind and naïve in certain ways – for one, the appearance of Henry’s father and his muggle fiancée will complicate their plans – but their hearts are firmly in the right place. As a whole, while this season desperately needed one centric devoted to Emma building a relationship with her parents, I don’t think the show has otherwise done a terrible job with their dynamic. Had that hypothetical Charming-family centric episode existed, the briefer moments we get in other episodes would have been sufficient as a supplement; unfortunately, in the absence of that, the supplement becomes all there is.

I also like that Neal and Emma have a scene where he isn’t horribly undermining to her, and is even somewhat complimentary.

Now to Rumbelle. Even here, Rumple continues to be a complex character in both the past and present. Part of what makes him interesting is that Belle isn’t wrong in believing there is good in him, which I think is most in evidence in the flashback in the fact that he doesn’t spare Robin because of Belle, he spares him because of Marian’s pregnancy. In the present, his struggle is, to me, fairly interesting: while he does have some good inclinations even apart from Belle, the perfect storm of Belle -- who does represent, however imperfectly, the best part of himself -- not only not remembering him, but wanting him to give into his worst instincts, Neal apparently ignoring him in favor of Henry, and Rumple struggling with the fact that he may well have to choose between killing Henry and dying himself makes the idea of gleefully embracing his darkness irresistible.

The place the show falls down, once again, is in not recognizing consistently a) that Rumple having the capacity for goodness doesn’t mean he isn’t also a monster and b) that Belle would have to be absolutely deluded or twisted to have wanted anything to do with him, let alone love him. On the first score, even as the show, and Rumple himself, obviously acknowledges that he has done terrible things, the response of other characters to him normalizes his behavior, to some extent. David is one of the most upright characters on the show, but he thinks that Rumple being “family” is justification for bringing him into the fold and even – for the second time this season – giving him romantic advice in his pursuit of an innocent young woman. Back in “The Crocodile,” we’re supposed to find the RB hamburger scene adorable in the same episode that we learn that Rumple killed Milah for leaving him, and Rumple is framed and treated as the more sympathetic party in his conflict with Hook. Even the conflict with Neal, to the extent that it is even acknowledged, seems mostly grounded in the abandonment, and not things like Rumple killing maids and turning people into slugs. 

Lacey (the character) is interesting if we view her as a part of Belle, in which case it is an instance of the show – as it occasionally will again over the years – suggesting that Belle’s own attraction to Rumple is grounded in a certain darkness, and isn’t entirely high minded. The problem is that the show never really has the courage to commit to it, so even as we have the Lacey scenes raising questions in the present, the flashbacks are showing Belle as a paragon of goodness whose faith in Rumple is touching and worthy of a sentimental love theme. If we were allowed to view Rumbelle as profoundly twisted and unhealthy, it could be a really interesting relationship. As it is, we – like David – are rather expected to root for them even while Rumple continues doing terrible things. Rumple letting Robin go may show that he has some good in him. But the fact that he lets a single thief survive only after almost flaying him to death should not be something that serves as the basis or validation for any kind of romance with Belle, who he is keeping in a dungeon while she cries herself to sleep.

[Shanna Marie]

The timeline gets really confusing to me here. It can't have been too long since Cora's death/Neal's arrival since Belle is just now learning that Rumple's still alive and Regina is just now learning that Neal is Henry's father, plus Belle is still in the hospital even though there's nothing physically wrong with her. Her injuries were healed magically and they know her amnesia is due to the curse. It's not like she's in a hospital in the outside world where they'd be trying to find the mysterious head injury. But Greg's out of the hospital and already going on hiking trips even though he was so badly injured that he needed emergency surgery, and Hook already sailed a ship by himself to New York in spite of being bounced off the hood of a car and having multiple broken ribs (and I think all his cuts and bruises on his face were gone). Meanwhile, the one sprig of bean cutting has somehow already become a field of beans. Yeah, magic beans, except the giants just a few episodes talked about it taking a century for a crop to be ready for harvest. So, do they grow incredibly slowly, or do they grow incredibly quickly? But, really, how much time has passed since Greg drove into town and hit Hook and crashed his car?

I thought the "Her" thing on the cell phone was bad, but Greg and Tamara having cryptic conversations about "the package" when they're utterly alone is ridiculous. It's purely to hold the secret from the audience, not something they're likely to have actually done. There was no reason for them to talk in code. Just the fact of them interacting with each other would have been enough to blow their cover. The fact that they were bringing Hook back to town is no big deal in comparison. It's not like he was some incredible secret weapon. He has no superpowers. He's just an angry, one-handed pirate. He's clever, but he's also prone to switching sides, and there's about a zero chance that he won't flip on people like Greg and Tamara the moment he gets a chance to sell them out if that will get him in good with Emma or maybe even Regina. If someone told Emma that Hook had been brought back to town, it would hardly be a "dun dun DUN!" moment. Her reaction would be more likely to be, "Oh, good, so someone let him out of that storage room and we don't have to worry about him running amok in New York." But I guess it worked as an excuse to get Hook back on the scene after Colin recovered enough to return to work after breaking his leg, and they even found a way to let him stay seated.

I don't have much to say about the rest because I just can't with Rumpbelle, and this one gets hard to watch.

[KingOfHearts]

This is probably the strongest episode post-The Miller's Daughter. It's not good, but Lacey and the flashbacks are interesting enough to make it somewhat palatable. I don't hate it. But, AGAIN, this is an episode that works better in a vacuum than in the grand scheme of things.

Spoiler

What hurts it is that Lacey is never brought up again after Belle gets cured in the finale. Rumple struggles for about five minutes to woo her over before he wins not only Lacey's sadistic heart, but Belle's as well. 

 

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I thought the "Her" thing on the cell phone was bad, but Greg and Tamara having cryptic conversations about "the package" when they're utterly alone is ridiculous.

Greg and Tamara would be hilarious if they weren't so sad.

Edited October 21, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[companionenvy]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I thought the "Her" thing on the cell phone was bad, but Greg and Tamara having cryptic conversations about "the package" when they're utterly alone is ridiculous. It's purely to hold the secret from the audience, not something they're likely to have actually done. There was no reason for them to talk in code. Just the fact of them interacting with each other would have been enough to blow their cover. The fact that they were bringing Hook back to town is no big deal in comparison. It's not like he was some incredible secret weapon. He has no superpowers. He's just an angry, one-handed pirate. He's clever, but he's also prone to switching sides, and there's about a zero chance that he won't flip on people like Greg and Tamara the moment he gets a chance to sell them out if that will get him in good with Emma or maybe even Regina.

The package thing was particularly stupid. As for the rest, how stupid they're being kind of depends on how much they know about Hook, which isn't at all clear to me. Like, even if we assume Neal included Hook in his explanation to Tamara, how did she know that he was locked in a storage closet in Neal's building? Greg might have heard some of Hook's ranting about revenge while they were both in the hospital, but had he even seen Hook with Regina and Cora, and if he did, how would he have known enough to trust that Hook would turn on Regina?

Otherwise, if they had known all of this, somehow, it isn't the worst idea they've had. Hook's revenge quest is likely to make him at least somewhat sympathetic to Greg's, and as his ability to kill Rumple depends on depriving him of his magic - which Greg and Tamara are claiming they can do -- allying with them is a reasonable bet on purely pragmatic terms. And, as it turns out, Hook is probably the best choice for luring Regina to them - short of kidnapping Henry or something -- since as untrustworthy as Regina knows he is, he's the only person who she might plausibly think is actually willing to work with her, if only for his own interests. 

[profdanglais]

14 hours ago, companionenvy said:

As a whole, while this season desperately needed one centric devoted to Emma building a relationship with her parents, I don’t think the show has otherwise done a terrible job with their dynamic. Had that hypothetical Charming-family centric episode existed, the briefer moments we get in other episodes would have been sufficient as a supplement; unfortunately, in the absence of that, the supplement becomes all there is.

I also like that Neal and Emma have a scene where he isn’t horribly undermining to her, and is even somewhat complimentary.

If this season had in fact focused on Emma and her parents, then the inclusion of Neal and Snow's attempts to get him and Emma back together would have made a lot more sense and worked a lot better. Snow is from a fairytale world and naturally wants her daughter to have a true love and live happily ever after. In fairytale land, no one has a child with someone who isn't their true love (at least, we can pretend that's the case though the actual Enchanted Forest is pretty grim, but for the sake of the argument...). So it makes sense for Snow to assume that Emma and Neal were only split up by the curse, because Henry needed to be in Storybrooke to bring Emma there, etc etc etc, which would make it entirely reasonable for her to want them together to find their happy ending as a family. It would have been so interesting to focus on Snow's reaction to the real situation with Neal and Emma, would give a contrast between the fairytale world and the "real" one, would provide a real impetus for them to want to return to the Enchanted Forest where they think happy endings are easier to come by. And then woven through all of that could be Emma's dawning sense of kinship with Hook and the gradual realisation that he is a better match for her than the father of her child. This last bit would have to extend into S3, obviously, but if the seeds were planted in S2, then the Captain Swan developments in S3 would have seemed less abrupt. 

[Shanna Marie]

10 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Otherwise, if they had known all of this, somehow, it isn't the worst idea they've had. Hook's revenge quest is likely to make him at least somewhat sympathetic to Greg's, and as his ability to kill Rumple depends on depriving him of his magic - which Greg and Tamara are claiming they can do -- allying with them is a reasonable bet on purely pragmatic terms. And, as it turns out, Hook is probably the best choice for luring Regina to them - short of kidnapping Henry or something -- since as untrustworthy as Regina knows he is, he's the only person who she might plausibly think is actually willing to work with her, if only for his own interests. 

True, but then that makes it weird that they had him tied up and gagged in the back of a U-Haul. Not exactly the way to get an ally. If Tamara found Hook in the storage room and freed him after Neal and Emma locked him in there, then they might have done better to have acted like his allies -- we know you've been victimized by magic, and we'd like you to help us. They might still have brought Hook in secretly since they're hiding all their activities, but maybe they should have had an ordinary van parked on the edge of town, and when they opened the door to reveal the "package," we could have seen Hook lounging comfortably, reading a book with a bottle of rum by his side. As it is, he looks mad at them, and the way they've treated him, it's pretty much a guarantee that he's going to flip because he has zero reason to have any loyalty to them.

And there's the other issue that you can tell the writers never took the anti-magic crusade seriously. Our anti-magic crusaders are in a magical town in which about 95 percent of the population has no magical powers, but nearly 100 percent of the population (aside from Regina and Rumple) has been victimized by magic. You'd think they'd have had a lot of potential subscribers to their newsletter. They'd have had a lot of potential allies.

[Camera One]

There's a difference between Belle liking a bit of darkness in her man, and someone who gets her kicks from watching someone being hit repeatedly with a cane.  That just makes her a psychopath.  As usual, they go ten paces too far.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Camera One

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, profdanglais said:

If this season had in fact focused on Emma and her parents, then the inclusion of Neal and Snow's attempts to get him and Emma back together would have made a lot more sense and worked a lot better. Snow is from a fairytale world and naturally wants her daughter to have a true love and live happily ever after. In fairytale land, no one has a child with someone who isn't their true love (at least, we can pretend that's the case though the actual Enchanted Forest is pretty grim, but for the sake of the argument...). So it makes sense for Snow to assume that Emma and Neal were only split up by the curse, because Henry needed to be in Storybrooke to bring Emma there, etc etc etc, which would make it entirely reasonable for her to want them together to find their happy ending as a family. It would have been so interesting to focus on Snow's reaction to the real situation with Neal and Emma, would give a contrast between the fairytale world and the "real" one, would provide a real impetus for them to want to return to the Enchanted Forest where they think happy endings are easier to come by. And then woven through all of that could be Emma's dawning sense of kinship with Hook and the gradual realisation that he is a better match for her than the father of her child. This last bit would have to extend into S3, obviously, but if the seeds were planted in S2, then the Captain Swan developments in S3 would have seemed less abrupt. 

That would have been really interesting to watch. That would make more sense as to why Snow's was on the Neal and Emma train even though he sent her daughter to jail for his crime. Also a great way to show a difference between the two worlds which they really should have done more of, Emma explaining in this world that doesn't happen to often people usually date more then one person, while not all date a lot its not uncommon for one to date or have a few relationships before finding the right one. Totally different from Enchanted Forest where almost everyone had a true love. Unless you are widowed man usually King or whatever Cinderella's father was you lose your true love wife and marry again only for her to be the Evil Queen or Wicked Stepmother. Which could also add to Snow's confusion. Let's face it in Fairytales Land second marriages do not go well. That could have been added to the Snow and Charming wanting to go back to the Enchanted Forest storyline since that's their home where they are from and Emma not too up on that since from her prospective their are some not very good parts about the Enchanted Forest Evil Queens, ogres, Dark Ones while Snow and Charming have similar views of LWM being a dangerous and unfriendly place from what they've heard and Emma's crappy childhood. 

[Camera One]

I was rewatching the scene where Regina was chatting with Rumple, while Neal and Henry were sword fighting in the distance.  Of course, we were with the villains while the "boring" characters had no dialogue. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was rewatching the scene where Regina was chatting with Rumple, while Neal and Henry were sword fighting in the distance.  Of course, we were with the villains while the "boring" characters had no dialogue. 

 

I can't give that scene itself too much flack, because it's meant to highlight the fact Regina and Rumple are forced to watch their children from a distance. Regina being the last to find out Baelfire is Henry's dad and Rumple being the one to break the news makes me snicker. The greater problem lies in the fact that Neal's relationship with Henry becomes so inconsequential to Regina and that Rumple stops giving a crap as soon as Lacey comes in.

Edited October 23, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

There is a lot to like in this episode, even more so than what I remember. As messed up as Rumpbell would become, I do kind of like to see their early scenes, and they did have a certain kind of chemistry, and I can understand why people got attached to them so much. However, as always, it always seems ridiculous how easy it is to get Belle to start her "I know theres good in you!" routine again. Like, yeah he didnt kill some guy when he realized he had a pregnant wife, after he tortured him and was going to flay him alive. I mean, its not like its so easy to be such an awesome guy at that point. I also cracked up at Belle doing sweeping in her full ball costume. I feel like that cant be very convenient for household chores. 

Regina giving Bell the Lacey personality really is just petty as hell, even by Regina standards. Hook did an awful thing to Belle, but Regina screwed her over far more times, and for even pettier reasons. I do like boozy barfly Lacey, and you can tell Emillie is having a lot of fun playing someone so opposite to cute bookish Belle, and I really wish we had seen more of Belle having a dark side. I also enjoyed seeing Charming play Rumples wingman, that will never stop cracking me up. And Granny's annoyed reaction when Rumple called her lasagna "overpraised". 

Greg and Tamara are just impossible to take seriously. "get the package" "going to get the package" "are we ready to unwrap the package?" like they're in some crappy spy movie or something. What could possibly be the point, especially out on the road where no one could hear them? Nothing about them makes any sense at all, they dont seem to be a threat, and the actors seem to be constantly stuck on smug. 

Its super weird to see the Tom Ellis Robin Hood here. Its like he is actually the Robin Hood from a different story, who eventually went back to where he came from, and then some other guy came back here.

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Greg and Tamara are just impossible to take seriously. "get the package" "going to get the package" "are we ready to unwrap the package?" like they're in some crappy spy movie or something. What could possibly be the point, especially out on the road where no one could hear them? Nothing about them makes any sense at all, they dont seem to be a threat, and the actors seem to be constantly stuck on smug. 

Greg and Tamara were competing against the fandom to see who could make up the most innuendos. Ultimately, the fandom won. Tacos. Coffee. Pancakes.

Edited October 26, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Greg and Tamara were competing against the fandom to see who could make up the most innuendos. Ultimately, the fandom won. Tacos. Coffee. Pancakes.

They're entire run of villainy is one big Thats What She Said joke.