Spencer Reid: Gorgeous Gray Matter

[normasm]

I'm saying EM is responsible for going back there. If she's so weak-minded she can't hear someone say "I want more JJ PTSD, NOW!!! I'll hold my breath til I turn blue!!!" and still run the show the way it should be run, then it sure ain't the fault of the whiny babies. So, yes, I think she went back on her word because she's weak.

[Droogie]

I wish I could figure out why Reid was only in the last episode for less than 5 minutes though. That is just ridiculous. Its almost as if they are punishing him for not wanting to rehash the drug story. I find it interesting that they do the stories Joe wants and let him get his daughter's song in. They do stories AJ wants with her character. They do stuff Kirsten wants. But when Matthew says he wants a happy story for Reid and a girlfriend that doesn't die, there is no sign of that happening. Either because they don't want to make time for it, or they can't imagine a happy story for him. I don't know.. Maybe he's just not forceful enough with his suggestions because he feels it isn't his business to suggest stories.

I wish you'd post this exact thing on the CM Facebook page. Maybe if we unite and complain, something will be done.

[Danielg342]

Just some random thoughts:

-Of the nine episodes we've seen so far, Reid has been featured prominently in two episodes- “Burn” and “If The Shoe Fits”, with a strong supporting role in “Boxed In”. So I don't agree that he's been shafted for screentime (at least not completely). He seems to be getting more screentime than Rossi (who really only had quality screentime in “Fate”) and Hotch (whose only real episode of note was the “vanity project” otherwise known as “Boxed In”), while he seems to be equals with Morgan (who had a big role in “The Boys of Sudworth Place”, the bookends in “#Hashtag” and a strong support role in “Burn”), Callahan (who seemed to only have much to do in “X” and “A Thousand Suns...”) and Garcia (whose only big role was in “Burn” but her supercomputer has solved the last few cases). He only seems to be behind JJ, with the only episodes she didn't have much of a part in being “Fate” (where everyone other than Rossi didn't have much of a focus) and “Burn”, and though she only really had one centric story- “If The Shoe Fits”- she's pretty much been a strong support character all season.

-That said, we haven't had a Reid-centric episode since he had the Maeve arc in Season 8, and it seems that lately if something doesn't involve Reid thinking of Maeve, he doesn't get much of a story. It's been on par with Erica Messer's writing since she took over the show- the only real character stories she can do are “personal” stories with love interests and families...she doesn't seem to know (or care) that characters can have other interests behind wanting to have or taking care of babies.

-I would agree that the current writers have no clue how to write for Reid, since I don't believe we've really explored the man's mind and feelings since about Season 4 (save for the “headaches” of Season 6). I also think that, despite the fact he's had some focus since that time, S4 was the last time the show really wrote well for Morgan too. The show also dropped the ball on the closest, most organic friendship the show has had- the Morgan/Reid relationship- since that time as well. So I look at “The Reid Problem” in the same way I look at “The Morgan Problem”- the show hasn't delivered the character we've loved for some time (you could probably argue the same thing about Hotch (and JJ too in a roundabout way) and maybe to a lesser extent Rossi and Garcia). I've pretty much given up on waiting for the show to revive the “old” characters because I think at this stage, Messer's not changing her style of showrunning.

-I also wonder how much of an effect the upper brass at CBS has. Perhaps they feel that since they were forced to bring JJ back, they forced Messer to overuse her, with the even more cynical suggesting that they forced Messer to make her a “bad” character as a way of saying “FU” to the fans that forced CBS' hand (which I don't think is too likely since I doubt CBS would want to intentionally ruin its product but you never know).

-Or, as already discussed, Messer thought that since the fans clamoured for JJ they wanted her to be front and centre, and though she misfired on that, she's refused to relent for some reason.

-Corollary to all that- the “anti-misogyny” point I always go back to: perhaps Messer wants to (or was told) to make a female character front and centre and shove the male characters to the side. The fact that this season hasn't had a single episode with only female victims (aside from “X”) leads me to think this could be a possibility, but then again, Callahan hasn't had too much focus either, so I wonder how big a role this plays.

[missmycat]

I wish you'd post this exact thing on the CM Facebook page. Maybe if we unite and complain, something will be done.

I totally agree with this. Oh and Zannej I'd love it if you were to post this on your tumblr page. I am actually considering sending CBS feedback asking them if Matthew is indeed being punished for not wanting to rehash the drug story line.

[Droogie]

I totally agree with this. Oh and Zannej I'd love it if you were to post this on your tumblr page. I am actually considering sending CBS feedback asking them if Matthew is indeed being punished for not wanting to rehash the drug story line.

I tweeted to them this very thing. Again. I expect nothing, but it makes me feel better.

[missmycat]

I also wonder how much of an effect the upper brass at CBS has. Perhaps they feel that since they were forced to bring JJ back, they forced Messer to overuse her, with the even more cynical suggesting that they forced Messer to make her a “bad” character as a way of saying “FU” to the fans that forced CBS' hand (which I don't think is too likely since I doubt CBS would want to intentionally ruin its product but you never know).

Daniel that is a very interesting theory you have. And you are by no means the only person I've seen pondering such a notion. Heck it has crossed my mind a time or two. The thing is I am convinced the majority of CM's fandom would have sooner or later gone along with CBS's decision to get rid of JJ had they not so stupidly messed with the character of Emily as well as bringing Seaver on board. Although as enamored EM is with the character of JJ, I really don't see CBS having to force Messer to use her so abundantly.Rather, I see it as them refusing to put a stop to her so called JJ worship.

[zannej]

I think one of the reasons that some of the Reid fans are not complaining on Twitter anymore is because they have given up. The attitude Reid fans got from the crew/writers when they did complain was to be told the show was not all about Reid and basically were being told to STFU. In some ways I almost suspect that some of the lack of excitement from the writers when writing Reid is that they got fed up with some of the less mature Reid fans who were demanding more Reid. I think it made them even tune out the fans who were reasonable and had valid points. Once they saw someone was a Reid fan, I think they just stopped listening and dismissed them as "one of those". 

 

But mostly I think it is because they just don't know what to do with him. I find it interesting that Erica lamented that the Reid/Maeve story was a flop, but she did not acknowledge that "200" was a crapfest.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I am pretty sure that MGG (and every other regular on this or any other series) appears in, is featured in, or is left out of--exactly as many episodes as his contract stipulates.

 

When these actors and their agents negotiate their contracts, nothing is left to chance, including their part in the opening credits.  No regular cast member just signs up for the season and hopes for the best from TPTB.

 

With respect, Uncle Chuck, I doubt that many actors would settle for the scraps that MGG has been getting. You don't have to be a dilettante about acting to want an actual reason to come to work. During this season in particular, Reid has either vanished partway through the episode or been relegated to having less than three hundred words to say. Sometimes both. I don't know what kind of terms he and/or his agent have been negotiating, but it seems like a really weird way to do business when the end result is that Spencer seems to be gradually fading from sight.

[missmycat]

I think one of the reasons that some of the Reid fans are not complaining on Twitter anymore is because they have given up. The attitude Reid fans got from the crew/writers when they did complain was to be told the show was not all about Reid and basically were being told to STFU. In some ways I almost suspect that some of the lack of excitement from the writers when writing Reid is that they got fed up with some of the less mature Reid fans who were demanding more Reid. I think it made them even tune out the fans who were reasonable and had valid points. Once they saw someone was a Reid fan, I think they just stopped listening and dismissed them as "one of those". 

 

But mostly I think it is because they just don't know what to do with him. I find it interesting that Erica lamented that the Reid/Maeve story was a flop, but she did not acknowledge that "200" was a crapfest.

See now this pisses me off because I don't remember them coping the same attitude with these immature JJ fans who kept clamoring for more JJ. The ones who are never satisfied with the focus JJ gets. It's as if they feel the show should revolve around her constantly. And I don't believe for one minute that her stupid PTSD episode is going to finally shut them up. 

[zannej]

See now this pisses me off because I don't remember them coping the same attitude with these immature JJ fans who kept clamoring for more JJ. The ones who are never satisfied with the focus JJ gets. It's as if they feel the show should revolve around her constantly. And I don't believe for one minute that her stupid PTSD episode is going to finally shut them up. 

I think one of the differences is that they feel like JJ fans got shafted when AJ was sacked-- which is true. Also, if they gripe at JJ fans they will be accused of sexism. I also think it has to do somewhat with the demands made (or not made) by AJ and Matthew. AJ wanted her character to feel more important and pushed for changes. Matthew doesn't seem to be all that pushy-- although he will put his foot down when he thinks something isn't right for the character. I don't think he's happy with what is going on with his character, but at the same time, I don't think he feels like he has much say in the matter. At least not without hurting some people's feelings... But then, I really don't know what is going on in his mind. It's just that in interviews he doesn't seem pleased with the show.

[missmycat]

I think one of the differences is that they feel like JJ fans got shafted when AJ was sacked-- which is true. Also, if they gripe at JJ fans they will be accused of sexism. I also think it has to do somewhat with the demands made (or not made) by AJ and Matthew. AJ wanted her character to feel more important and pushed for changes. Matthew doesn't seem to be all that pushy-- although he will put his foot down when he thinks something isn't right for the character. I don't think he's happy with what is going on with his character, but at the same time, I don't think he feels like he has much say in the matter. At least not without hurting some people's feelings... But then, I really don't know what is going on in his mind. It's just that in interviews he doesn't seem pleased with the show.

 So just when the hell are they going to feel it's been made up to JJ and her fans. I mean for crying out loud she was only gone for 1 season. And what about the way Reid and his fans seem to be getting the shaft. Was it our fault CBS got rid of her. Quite frankly I wish they would have never bought her back.

Btw Zannej this is just me ranting. So these question are more or less rhetorical. 

[zannej]

 So just when the hell are they going to feel it's been made up to JJ and her fans. I mean for crying out loud she was only gone for 1 season. And what about the way Reid and his fans seem to be getting the shaft. Was it our fault CBS got rid of her. Quite frankly I wish they would have never bought her back.

Btw Zannej this is just me ranting. So these question are more or less rhetorical. 

LOL. yeah. I know how you feel. It is frustrating. It seems like they feel they have to keep giving JJ more to do, but that because they gave Reid one story in season 8 and had him shot in the neck in season 9 that it somehow made up for all of the times he has disappeared or just not been contributing. I honestly do not know what they are thinking. AJ complained that whenever she goes somewhere with Matthew, that he is the one who gets recognized and gets all the attention. Yet, there are people who seem to think that AJ is more popular than him. I really don't get it.

 

I just hope that they don't throw in the towel since they can't do the drug story and that they can actually come up with something good for Reid this season. If they can't, then it means they need to be fired and replaced. 

[normasm]

His refusal to do the drug story looms larger all the time for me. One, the fact that EM would go so far out of her way to speak at length, in code about it (knowing how easy that code was to decipher for almost any fan). And two, the lack of nearly any character attention for Reid since he rubbed his neck in X (the exception being talking to, wait for it, JJ, about her problems in If The Shoe Fits). Add in that interview wherein MGG said all he had done with Reid over the past 10 years is make people sad (paraphrasing), and I no longer feel I'm being paranoid.

 

When CoStar says "You don't have to be a dilettante about acting to want an actual reason to come to work" I wonder how long we'll wait before they have to explain what's going on.

[Racbec]

Uncle Chuck is incorrect in his assertion that actors negotiate ahead of time and know exactly how big their parts will be in each episode.  First of all, most episodes are not written or even mapped out at the time of contracting.  Second, there are simply too many examples of actors stating publicly that they had no idea that something was going to happen to their characters until they read it in the script for this to be possible.  I've heard actors who have stated that that is how they learned that their characters were being killed off.  Third, we know that scripts change constantly.  So what was intended at the beginning of the script drafting process is typically not what we see on screen weeks later.

[Droogie]

His refusal to do the drug story looms larger all the time for me. One, the fact that EM would go so far out of her way to speak at length, in code about it (knowing how easy that code was to decipher for almost any fan). And two, the lack of nearly any character attention for Reid since he rubbed his neck in X (the exception being talking to, wait for it, JJ, about her problems in If The Shoe Fits). Add in that interview wherein MGG said all he had done with Reid over the past 10 years is make people sad (paraphrasing), and I no longer feel I'm being paranoid.

 

When CoStar says "You don't have to be a dilettante about acting to want an actual reason to come to work" I wonder how long we'll wait before they have to explain what's going on.

I was thinking about him rubbing his neck in "X." Clearly that was in the script -- do you think it was after that, that MGG became aware of the possible addiction storyline and nixed it? Because, once again, we had Reid heading in a direction (like with the headaches) that leads absolutely nowhere. Now that scene is just silly to me.

I don't think you're paranoid, either. Well, if you are, then I am, too. It makes no sense for them to ignore Reid like this. We already have descriptions through 10.14. No mention of Reid at all.

[Droogie]

If you look at the CMRT website, it lists the Twitter accounts of everyone affiliated with CM (that have Twitter, anyway). Go make an account and tweet them (repeatedly), if you haven't already. Plus you can follow MGG and see his hilarious tweets.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Droogie

[ForeverAlone]

I think that yes, the shot of Reid rubbing his neck was supposed to be a breadcrumb that lead up to his addiction storyline. I personally think that at some point after that, all other breadcrumbs were removed from subsequent episodes and episode four had to have been rewritten to remove any hints about addiction struggles. I mean, we had the spoiler in early summer that Reid's trauma was supposed to culminate in episode four. So I bet after Matthew said not only no, but hell no to revisiting that story, they had to change whatever they had planned for Reid. Of course in the process, they seemed to have switched from a Reid centric episode to a more JJ centric episode, and I can't see that as being accidental. Whether it was "punishment" I have no clue, but there had to have been a substantial rewrite to at least the B story for episode four. 

[zannej]

Although the official line from Harry Bring was that Reid's story was cut from episode 4 because it didn't fit in with the rest of the story. I really don't know what was going on.

[missmycat]

Although the official line from Harry Bring was that Reid's story was cut from episode 4 because it didn't fit in with the rest of the story. I really don't know what was going on.

Yeah sure right, Like that fact has never stopped them before. What about this latest episode, just how well did the Rossi story line fit in with the episode as a whole.

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah well, it's not like Harry was going to say that the story was scrapped because Matthew didn't want to do it. But Erica essentially said as much in her podcast that Reid's story was cut because he didn't want to revisit the addiction story. There is really no other way around it.

[zannej]

I was hoping they could find something for him related to the gunshot wound and maybe even the anthrax-- some health complications-- but without revisiting the drug thing. I also wonder if maybe Erica didn't want to do the story and is just spinning it to make it seem like Matthew didn't want to do it. Or maybe he didn't like the specifics of what they had planned and not the general idea.

 

Although I suspect he's ready to move on. I don't think he's said anything about CM on Twitter since the season started- but I could be wrong.

Edited December 3, 2014 by zannej

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yeah well, it's not like Harry was going to say that the story was scrapped because Matthew didn't want to do it. But Erica essentially said as much in her podcast that Reid's story was cut because he didn't want to revisit the addiction story. There is really no other way around it.

 

But the solution to that is to write something else, not drop all focus on the character. If Erica is such a petulant brat that she's punishing Matthew for bucking her,no wonder he might be ready to move on. Because it sounds like she's trying to Sean Kanan him.

[Droogie]

Although I suspect he's ready to move on. I don't think he's said anything about CM on Twitter since the season started- but I could be wrong.

Not a word. He hasn't retweeted anything or any photos, either.

[ForeverAlone]

Matthew has been pretty silent with regards to Criminal Minds since last season. He gave one half hearted mention of the 200th episode, but definitely not a ringing endorsement or full on promotion like others did. Last year he never even mentioned he was directing Gatekeeper. He retweeted something Rick posted once, but he never said he was directing it or encouraged his fans to watch it, either during the initial airing or during its repeat. He was all excited about directing Blood Relations and shared a lot about that, but that was it. Matthew really doesn't mention his day job very often lately and that definitely is a change from past behavior.

Edited December 3, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[Danielg342]

Say it with me: Morgan & Reid, the TV series. :D It'd be like how Elementary is supposed to be.

[ForeverAlone]

If they could combine a show of BBC's Sherlock (the whole cast) with Reid, I would watch that all day long. :) :) :) 

[missmycat]

So, I have a question. Would anybody here be willing to put up with the return of the Sperm Donor if it meant Reid would finally get a half way decent story line.

[Danielg342]

If they could combine a show of BBC's Sherlock (the whole cast) with Reid, I would watch that all day long. :) :) :)

Never seen the BBC's version, but based on CBS' version, I think Reid could definitely outquirk Sherlock. It'd be hilarious TV.

So, I have a question. Would anybody here be willing to put up with the return of the Sperm Donor if it meant Reid would finally get a half way decent story line.

This a S7 thing? I don't recall a "sperm donor" thing in the Reid storyline...

[normasm]

Daniel, they are referring to Reid's "dad." And, for the record, no, I don't want "cured" Diana and i don't want "any" William.

Edited December 5, 2014 by normasm

[ForeverAlone]

No, I have zero desire to see Reid and his dad. Surely there must be some story for Reid that involves his adult life and not his parents.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

So, I have a question. Would anybody here be willing to put up with the return of the Sperm Donor if it meant Reid would finally get a half way decent story line.

 

Firstly, you have no idea how validated this makes me feel. Between To Be Fair being trademarked and Sperm Donor catching on, it has considerably lifted my mood.

 

With that said, no, I do not wish to see the Sperm Donor again in any capacity. For one thing, he's hurt Reid enough already, and for another Erica has already fucked up Diana's character. She'd probably flip the script and retcon it that he was a devoted dad or something, and I just can't with that. Spencer needs a story that makes it clear that he's an adult now, beyond the need for useless William's approval.

 

[OT]Also, my website friend just told me that she kinda ships Morgan and Garcia. I am side-eying her as I type this, if only because I thought she had better taste than that. :-P[/OT]

[Cobalt Stargazer]

If they could combine a show of BBC's Sherlock (the whole cast) with Reid, I would watch that all day long. :) :) :) 

 

[normasm]

I just can't cope with rival beautiful men in one show. Or rival smart men in one show. Or rival conflicted and messed-up men in one show. One needs to be dominant, and Sherlock would always win. 

[missmycat]

Daniel, they are referring to Reid's "dad." And, for the record, no, I don't want "cured" Diana and i don't want "any" William.

Unfortunately that is exactly what we may end up getting. EM said she wanted Diana Reid to return in the same positive vein that they started for her last season.

She even said something about how Diana may or may not be checked out of Bennington Sanitorium and want to bet Reid isn't going to know a thing about it until after the fact.

 

I just don't understand how in season 7 Reid needed to take a sabbatical because of what was going on with his mom.I remember hoping that Diana hadn't taking a turn for the worse.Now 2 seasons later she is practically cured 

[normasm]

MMC, when and where did EM say that? Just curious.

[missmycat]

MMC, when and where did EM say that? Just curious.

Normasm I tried to post the original link but for some reason it wouldn't work. But if you go to that Fansite run by Willowy(Tari) she has an article about it.

It's entitled Show Teases Mama Reids Return in which she provides a link to the original article in tvguide. You'll want to check out item #4

[moxiepip]

Any guesses to what the "big splash" would be to bring Diana Reid back?

[missmycat]

Any guesses to what the "big splash" would be to bring Diana Reid back?

i have no idea. The show isn't even sure they can get Jane Lynch. And quite frankly I am fed up with MESSer using it as an excuse when it comes to any sort of story line for Reid. Damn it! He is a main character(will at least he was) They should have stuff planned for him irregardless of the fact the actress may not be available.

[moxiepip]

I hope that Lynch isn't available. I agree with ForeverAlone who said the writers should be able to come up with an adult story line for Reid that doesn't involve his parents.

Edited December 6, 2014 by moxiepip

[normasm]

Well, that article was posted on the website as September 30, so that was all before the season even started.

 

Frankly, I hope Matthew will refuse a story arc with Jane if it means a fake happy ending to 30+ years of schizophrenia. If she could be doing better, OK, but no amazing cures or "oops, we misdiagnosed her, it was just the brain flu, and now it's gone!!"

 

I would like him to bring her to live closer to him and have a closer relationship with her, but, no fakey happy times for Diana, please. And no major arcs with JL, no matter what they do to Diana. As moxie and others have said, have Reid have his own stories as a man on his own.

[Droogie]

Am I allowed to do this? Something fun that I didn't previously know. Check it out for around three seconds beginning at about minute 1:06:

[zannej]

I can't load the video just yet. What is it?

[Old Dog]

Am I allowed to do this? Something fun that I didn't previously know. Check it out for around three seconds beginning at about minute 1:06:

 

Is that really who I think it is?? Gosh!

[Droogie]

Is that really who I think it is?? Gosh!

Yep!

I can't load the video just yet. What is it?

Sorry, zannej! Google Fatboy Slim Wonderful Night and watch the video. :-)

[Old Dog]

Could have done with a lot more than 3 seconds!

[Droogie]

Most definitely! But I will take what I can get -- love that he was in this.

[zannej]

Oh yeah, I remember that people said they thought they saw MGG in that.

[JMO]

If the pattern holds, we may, one day, be sharing three second sightings of him on CM.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And Tobias apparently "cut it with LSD," according to Bad Teeth Man, his sponsor, so I'm assuming that had something to do with the memories? Incidentally, I love Bad Teeth Man, he's one of my sharpest attention points when I rewatch Revelations...

 

Revelations is on right now, and I just realized that Bad Teeth Man is Muse Watson, who played Mike Franks on NCIS. I cannot stop laughing, because "Good for him!" is exactly what Mike would say.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Droogie]

I just tweeted to Derek Waters that MGG should be on Season 3 of Drunk History and he tweeted me back that it was a done deal.

Edited because I am drinking like I am on Drunk History and I made a lot of typos.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Droogie