Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

Photo clues:

http://flashtvnews.com/wp-content/gallery/flash-furious/FLA510c_0001r.jpg

Nice family photo!
This scene isn't mentioned in the description or shown in the promos. I'm guessing it's a scene near the start of the episode, then they have to go back to STAR Labs to deal with the villains (Iris and Nora have the same outfits in STAR Labs). But what occasion in a courtroom would require to the West-Allens (and their "intern" who is obviously a mix of their DNA) to attend and dress up? Maybe they're supporting Cecile on her first day back to work?

Throwing out a WILD GUESS/WISH: The scene is Joe and Cecile's courthouse wedding. Bonus points if it's Capt. Singh officiating.

http://flashtvnews.com/wp-content/gallery/flash-furious/FLA510c_0004r.jpg

Barry's in the Pipeline with a Big Belly Burger cup? Maybe he's in there willingly? Or to protect him? Don't see how this relates to the case of the week.

Found video of the 3-show promo with scenes not in the other promos:

Edited January 9, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

Almost forgot: Cisco's hands still bandaged months later is still annoying to me. It's just not necessary.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Throwing out a WILD GUESS/WISH: The scene is Joe and Cecile's courthouse wedding. Bonus points if it's Capt. Singh officiating.

I had this thought also, but isn't Jesse already off the show until he recovers?

 

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Almost forgot: Cisco's hands still bandaged months later is still annoying to me. It's just not necessary.

Yeah. They must be doing it to keep reminding the audience about his injury so it must play an important role somehow later in the season.

[Maverick]

For the cure, I'm guessing it for Cicada's niece since they feal guilty for the satellite crash that injured her or for Cicada himself.  I hope they're not going back to Caitlin wants to get rid of her powers well after just doing this arc where she accepts Killer Frost and vice versa. 

[adora721]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Almost forgot: Cisco's hands still bandaged months later is still annoying to me. It's just not necessary.

I think Cisco being temporarily de-powered will be used later in some plot that requires KF to save him since Cisco is the person who KF and Caitlin care about most.

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

For the cure, I'm guessing it for Cicada's niece since they feal guilty for the satellite crash that injured her or for Cicada himself.  I hope they're not going back to Caitlin wants to get rid of her powers well after just doing this arc where she accepts Killer Frost and vice versa. 

I doubt they established the retcon of KF not being created by dark matter to go back to Cait wanting to be normal again; plus they made it clear KF is their chief weapon against Cicada, and there's still the ultimate showdown between Icicle and KF to happen later in the season.

[BeautifulFlower]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

 

Or maybe this arc leads to the power dampening chip in the future?

I don't see how. The power dampening chip most likely works just like power dampening cuffs. Even though the writers want us to forget the Caitlin plot from season 3, remember Cisco and Julian created a power dampening necklace and bracelet. Therefore, Cisco would already know how to make it. Only this time, he'll make it in the form of a chip

[Trini]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Yeah. They must be doing it to keep reminding the audience about his injury so it must play an important role somehow later in the season.

3 hours ago, adora721 said:

I think Cisco being temporarily de-powered will be used later in some plot that requires KF to save him since Cisco is the person who KF and Caitlin care about most.

I'd love it if it plays a role later, but I think it's mainly to have him de-powered for plot.

[SimoneS]

On 1/6/2019 at 3:32 PM, Trini said:

I'd love it if it plays a role later, but I think it's mainly to have him de-powered for plot.

You might be right.

[Trini]

One of the CW PR people tweeted a few teases for the next two episodes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trini]

The description for 5.11 should be out in a couple of days, but the title is "Seeing Red".

[Trini]

The new extended trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzqSdyVMq9Y

---

Tag line: "The fight for family will unleash the fury".

I'm guessing that this trailer has clips from 5.10, 5.11, and 5.12. Barry and Iris traveling to the future might be 5.12.

---

Barry and Nora ice skating is cute; but where's Iris?

They've got the whole family in the same color at the Flash Museum.

Ack! Nora gets paralyzed? That's one way to slow her down. I know it'll be temporary, but they sure want to make sure there are tearjerker moments as well as cute family moments.

Glad to see Capt. Singh and Cecile again.

Hardly any Cisco or Caitlin in these promos. I guess their subplot isn't action-packed.

The next most interesting thing here is that we see Grace awake from her coma... with powers? There's someone by her bedside, but I didn't recognize it as anyone we know from the show. Is it a new meta?

I hope they take full advantage of the future trip; I need to know what Team Flash/the Wests are up to.

[SimoneS]

I am very excited about Barry and Iris travelling to the future, but I really hope that they are not just going to visit the Flash Museum or only to the time period where Nora is a child. I always hoped that they would travel to the future to find out how and why Barry disappears so they can prevent it from occurring.

Nora becoming temporarily paralyzing and setting off the "darkness" in Barry is a bit much. As much as I am loving the West-Allens being front and center this season, I can't adjust to newly married Barry and Iris as parents of an annoying adult child. Why has no one insisted that she return to her time? Also, why hasn't it occurred to them that she is there to try and change the future, especially given Barry's past timeline tampering? Or well, plot device in action.

I think that it might be Iris (because of the hair, but it could be Caitlin) at Grace's bedside when she wakes up as a meta. Does this mean that Cicada is the main villain for the whole season? I thought that Eobard would be the main villain in the second half.

Edited January 10, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

42 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I am very excited about Barry and Iris travelling to the future, but I really hope that they are not just going to visit the Flash Museum or only to the time period where Nora is a child. I always hoped that they would travel to the future to find out how and why Barry disappears so they can prevent it form occurring.

Nora becoming temporarily paralyzing and setting off the "darkness" in Barry is a bit much. As much as I am loving the West-Allen being front and center this season, I can't adjust to newly married Barry and Iris as parents of an annoying adult child. Why has no one insisted that she return to her time? Also, why hasn't it occurred to them that she is there to try and change the future, especially given Barry's past timeline tampering? Or well, plot device in action.

I think that it might be Iris (because of the hair, but it could be Caitlin) at Grace's bedside when she wakes up as a meta. Does this mean that Cicada is the main villain for the whole season? I thought that Eobard would be the main villain in the second half.

I really do think that is a fixed point.

[Trini]

8 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that it might be Iris (because of the hair, but it could be Caitlin) at Grace's bedside when she wakes up as a meta. ...

I'm not even 100% sure it's a woman. But based on the profile I don't think it's Iris or Caitlin:

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Trini

[SimoneS]

29 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I really do think that is a fixed point.

Even if the Team cannot stop Barry from disappearing, if they go to the future and find out how and why he disappears and how he returns many years after, then they can help come up with a plan for him to return not long after he disappears. In fact, they already know that Barry most likely disappears after going back to the past and stopping Eobard from killing him as a child. So the question is where does adult Barry go after Eobard gets stuck in the past. The answer seems pretty obvious to me (adult Barry is trapped in the Speed Force), but apparently not to the team that has not spent any time trying to figure it out. 

13 minutes ago, Trini said:

I'm not even 100% sure it a woman. But based on the profile I don't think it's Iris or Caitlin:

 

Yep, you are right. It does not look like Iris or Caitlin or even a woman.

Edited January 9, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Also, why hasn't it occurred to them that she is there to try and change the future, especially given Barry's past timeline tampering? Or well, plot device in action.

Nora basically admitted to Barry in the Thanksgiving episode that she was trying to change Barry's fate. She said to Barry, "Maybe one day, if I train enough, I'll be able to save you." He may not have gotten the full interpretation of how she was going to save him, but Barry is partially aware of her agenda.

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Nora basically admitted to Barry in the Thanksgiving episode that she was trying to change Barry's fate. She said to Barry, "Maybe one day, if I train enough, I'll be able to save you." He may not have gotten the full interpretation of how she was going to save him, but Barry is partially aware of her agenda.

But she makes it sound like "hopeful" rather than she is taking a definitive plan. That is something that Barry and Iris and Team Flash should be concerned about. Their lack of concern about Nora changing the timeline takes away from my enjoyment of the story.

[Trini]

Judalina Niera and Thomas Pound wrote 5.11, so that's promising. They've written some good WestAllen episodes before.

^Also confirms that many of the clips in the latest trailer are from 5.11.

[Trini]

They always have to make things personal (with the main villain) for our protagonist, Barry; but with Cicada injuring Nora, it seems a little overkill? Mainly because we now know that there's already a personal connection to a villain with Thawne manipulating Nora. So Barry's going to be doubly angry...?

Edited January 10, 2019 by Trini
ugh, why do i even type in the a.m.?

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

They always have to make things personal (with the main villain) for our protagonist, Barry; but with Cicada injuring Nora, it seems a little overkill? Mainly because we now know that there's already a personal connection to a villain with Thawne manipulating Nora. So Barry's going to be douby angry...?

As much as I am enjoying the West-Allen family drama, I hope we get some lighter moments in the rest of the season. Barry having personal grudges with Cicada and Thawne in the same season does seem like a bit much.

[SimoneS]

I just read that we are going to have a King Shark/Grodd team up episode later this season. I can't wait. It will be epic!

[Trini]

57 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I just read that we are going to have a King Shark/Grodd team up episode later this season. I can't wait. It will be epic!

I think they might use this plot for episode 5.21*, the usual "lighter" episode before the two-part finale.

*Or it might be 5.20; I'd heard somewhere that there's only 22 episodes this season, but I don't know if that was confirmed.

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

*Or it might be 5.20; I'd heard somewhere that there's only 22 episodes this season, but I don't know if that was confirmed.

Why on earth would the CW only order 22 episodes of its highest rated show? Is The Flash that expensive? Or is the CW's finances finally going down the tube after years of pushing low rated crappy shows?

[Trini]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Why on earth would the CW only order 22 episodes of its highest rated show? Is The Flash that expensive? Or is the CW's finances finally going down the tube after years of pushing low rated crappy shows?

Supposedly, not only Flash, but Arrow and Supergirl might have only 22 as well. The reasoning I've seen is so that there was more budget and time to do the big crossover episodes (which is a strain for the multiple casts and crews) -- but again, I haven't seen this verified anywhere.

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

Supposedly, not only Flash, but Arrow and Supergirl might have only 22 as well. The reasoning I've seen is so that there was more budget and time to do the big crossover episodes (which is a strain for the multiple casts and crews) -- but again, I haven't seen this verified anywhere.

So the CW is sacrificing its highest rated show to prop up one episode of its lower rated shows? These crossovers don't help The Flash's ratings, in anything it probably hurts the show in the long run. The CW must be making extra money somewhere. Seriously, I really find this annoying as someone who only watches The Flash.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

So the CW is sacrificing its highest rated show to prop up one episode of its lower rated shows?

And for PR buzz. And I'm sure DC doesn't mind that their characters get promotion.

[BeautifulFlower]

5x11 Synopsis

Quote

CICADA SEVERLY INJURES NORA — During a battle with Cicada (Chris Klein), Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) is severely injured. Due to Cicada’s dampening powers, Nora’s speed healing isn’t working, leaving Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton) scared for their daughter’s future. Upset about his injured child, The Flash is filled with rage and confronts Cicada in a brutal battle. Meanwhile, Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker) keeps interfering with Caitlin’s work on the cure.

Looking forward to this. The A plot sounds and looks amazing.

As always, Caitlin plot sounds dumb. Would rather get a Cisco, Cecile, or even Ralph subplot?

Edited January 10, 2019 by BeautifulFlower
added more

[Trini]

Quote

The Flash is filled with rage and confronts Cicada in a brutal battle.

... in which Cicada will escape/survive or Flash loses because we're only halfway through the season.

 

18 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

or even Ralph subplot?

I mean, if they're really going to bring in Sue for Ralph, they need to start soon. (When they brought in Gypsy/Cynthia, it was in 3.11. But then again, that whole season was about couples, this season there's only Barry/Iris.)

I too would love to see some of the other supporting characters (NOT Wells #475) get a subplot instead of Caitlin getting a second one for the season; especially since they will most likely revisit Thomas Snow/Icicle later.

[SimoneS]

Considering the medical advances that would occur 30 years from now, one would think that Barry would run Nora back to the future to get the best medical care available for her, but somehow I doubt this option will occur to him. At least, if Nora is injured, she will be unable to plot with Thawne. 

I stopped caring about Caitlin and her Killer Frost drama since season 3, not that I ever cared that much. I much prefer that Gypsy returns so she and Cisco can have some entertaining relationship drama.

 

3 hours ago, Trini said:

And for PR buzz. And I'm sure DC doesn't mind that their characters get promotion.

More like Berlanti keeping his growing DC gravy train going. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by SimoneS

[ruby24]

I don't care one WHIT about Caitlin/Killer Frost. Get both of them off my screen asap, for the love of god. Please, can she just leave the show after this season? There's nothing else to do with her, I swear, they're re-treading the same ground over and over and over again. 

Bring on Ralph and his new love interest, please- anything!

Edited January 11, 2019 by ruby24

[SimoneS]

It occurs to me that since we will be getting King Shark and Grodd that we will likely have ARGUS in the form of Lyla and possibly Diggle. Maybe it is ARGUS that Team Flash teams up with to stop Cicada. I can see ARGUS wanting to experiment on Cicada so it can weaponize his powers to stop villainous metas. Besides since Nora meddled with the timeline to cause this guy to become Cicada, David Hersch might still become the "real" Cicada eventually so he will be the one who is on the loose causing problems in the DCU.

ETA: I am still not happy with the casting of Chris Klein. He is not a good actor and this has come off as a casting stunt. There are so many other talented actors out there who could do better.

Edited January 11, 2019 by SimoneS

[adora721]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

ETA: I am still not happy with the casting of Chris Klein. He is not a good actor and this has come off as a casting stunt. There are so many other talented actors out there who could do better.

Imagine how bad watching him and Killer Frost will be; ugh! Two of the weakest actors paired as antagonists in scenes together---ouch!

[Trini]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

It occurs to me that since we will be getting King Shark and Grodd that we will likely have ARGUS in the form of Lyla and possibly Diggle. Maybe it is ARGUS that Team Flash teams up with to stop Cicada. I can see ARGUS wanting to experiment on Cicada so it can weaponize his powers to stop villainous metas. Besides since Nora meddled with the timeline to cause this guy to become Cicada, David Hersch might still become the "real" Cicada eventually so he will be the one who is on the loose causing problems in the DCU.

This is actually a good idea... so it's probably not going to happen. LOL. I can see ARGUS playing a part in the later part of the season, though.

[SimoneS]

5x12 synopsis: “Memorabilia”

Quote

BARRY AND IRIS LOOK INTO NORA’S MEMORIES — When Sherloque (Tom Cavanagh) wants to use a memory machine on Barry (Grant Gustin) and Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) to help gain access to Grace’s memories, Nora panics, fearing her parents will find out the secrets she’s been keeping from them. Nora secretly decides to use the machine on her own which ends in disaster after she gets trapped inside Grace’s mind. Barry and Iris go in after their daughter and Iris is brokenhearted by what she finds. Meanwhile, Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) tricks Cisco (Carlos Valdes) into going out for a night out on the town. Rebecca Johnson directed the episode written by Sam Chalsen & Kristen Kim (#512). Original airdate 1/29/2019.

So Barry and Iris aren't travelling to the future. They will be in Nora's memories. How disappointing! Of course, Nora will be offering up some sad sop version of her childhood that makes Iris feel guilty. I am really looking forward to Barry and Iris finding out that Nora is working with Thawne now.

Edited January 12, 2019 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

Hartley Sawyer did an interview and dropped some minor spoilers. Basically Ralph will be interacting with Killer Frost in 5x11, has fun with Cisco in 5x12, and will team up with Barry for an adventure to find something they need to fight Cicada in the criminal underworld for most of 5x13. It hasn't been revealed to Team Flash that Nora has been working with Thawne as yet.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/01/11/superhero-insider-the-flash-hartley-sawyer/

[Trini]

I'm surprised that the 5.12 description is out already. I guess PR is back from vacation!

Also, I think it's kind of funny that 5.10 is pretty much being ignored, and the later episodes are being talked up more. At least I'll know how to set my expectations!

But back to 5.12:

Quote

When Sherloque wants to use a memory machine on Barry and Nora to help gain access to Grace’s memories, Nora panics, fearing her parents will find out the secrets she’s been keeping from them. ...

This sounds like the usual convoluted sci-fi stuff to get to a plot point. But why can't they just do a flashback/flashforward to show us the future?? Still holding out hope that they will do this later in the season.

Anyway, why would they need Grace's memories??

I'm still looking forward to the glimpses of the future, though.
 

Quote

... Nora secretly decides to use the machine on her own which ends in disaster after she gets trapped inside Grace’s mind....

I don't mind that Nora is here in the present; but clearly she's causing a lot of problems. (I know that's the point, and for them to have a season-long story but ...) The show still hasn't presented any real, good reasons for her to stay, and she's already given as much info as she can about Cicada.

So now I'm thinking the person by Grace's bedside in the extended trailer is Nora (JPK's stunt double). ... Maybe.
 

Quote

... Barry and Iris go in after their daughter and Iris is brokenhearted by what she finds. ...

Argh. The fact that they specify that Iris is "brokenhearted", probably means that it isn't the Thawne reveal. How long will they draw that out? Anyway, from all that they've teased so far about Future!Iris, it could be any number of things that would break her heart, so I don't have any specific speculations for that.
 

Quote

... Meanwhile, Ralph tricks Cisco into going out for a night out on the town.

I'm already cringing at the contrasting plots. Well, I did ask for a subplot for Ralph or Cisco.... :-/  
 

Quote

... the episode written by Sam Chalsen & Kristen Kim

Well, smeg. Chalsen is... okay, but Kim kinda sucks. Optimistically, maybe Kim has the B-plot, while Chalsen has the A-plot.

[Trini]

From Hartley's interview:

I think they're filming episode 15 now, so if Hartley says that the Thawne reveal hasn't happened yet, it seems they're going to draw this out for a while. ::sigh::

So there's a Barry/Ralph team-up as the A-plot for 5.13. I'm not opposed because Ralph has been minimized this season so far, but I'm dreading Iris and Nora being restricted to a B-plot like in 5.06. (Although, there were a couple of nice moments.)

Also only Ralph knows about the criminal underworld? Besides the fact that Barry works for CCPD and should be able to get some info from there, Caitlin and Killer Frost who both worked with Amunet for a whole summer are *right there.*

[SimoneS]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

I don't mind that Nora is here in the present; but clearly she's causing a lot of problems. (I know that's the point, and for them to have a season-long story but ...) The show still hasn't presented any real, good reasons for her to stay, and she's already given as much info as she can about Cicada.

So now I'm thinking the person by Grace's bedside in the extended trailer is Nora (JPK's stunt double). ... Maybe.

I have said this several times before, but I can't get over the team's nonchalance about Nora staying in the past, making all sorts of alterations to the timeline. Also, you would think that Barry would have run to the future already to learn as much as he could about his disappearance and to make sure that Nora hasn't doing much damage staying in the past.

I think you are right about Nora being at Grace's bedside, probably when she is trapped in Grace's mind.

They are dragging out the Thawne reveal. Cicada seems to be the overarching villain for the whole season so maybe the Thawne reveal will be tied to Nora's story ending (I think she disappears due to her timeline shenanigans). Sherloque will reveal that Nora will working with Thawne around episode 20, but by then it will be too late to fix all the things that she had done. This sets up Thawne as the big bad for season six with the first big confrontation with Barry occurring during the crossover.

 

10 hours ago, Trini said:

So there's a Barry/Ralph team-up as the A-plot for 5.13. I'm not opposed because Ralph has been minimized this season so far, but I'm dreading Iris and Nora being restricted to a B-plot like in 5.06. (Although, there were a couple of nice moments.)

I am not a Ralph fan, but Barry and Ralph on adventure in the criminal underworld promises to bring some humor, unlike if they teamed Barry up with Caitlin.

Edited January 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

Thought about it a little more, and I wouldn't mind a good subplot with Iris/Cisco/Nora while Barry and Ralph are on their own in 5.13. But Cisco still needs his own plot this season. Because it's looking like the metahuman cure will mostly involve Caitlin/KF.

[Trini]

The writers are still going to drag out the reveal about Reverse Flash and the defeat of Cicada, but these upcoming episodes sound better than the previous middle-of-the-season episodes we've had in recent seasons. There are more than a few things to look forward to, I think.

[SimoneS]

The funniest part of the TVLine interview with Helbing is the bolded statement by the interviewer below. That Nora didn't know that Thawne killed her grandmother is so unbelievable that even the entertainment media can't fake it. They don't have the Internet or libraries in 2049? Nora must know that her grandfather was innocent and "Wells" confessed to killing Nora from Internet. Even if her mother and no one else told her that Thawne killed her grandmother, there he is standing in front of her with Wells' face, imprisoned for various crimes, teaching her how to time travel to the past, and yet she can't deduce the obvious? The writers have turned Nora into an idiot and protrayed future Iris as a bad mother to sell this ridiculous story so Tom Cavanagh can play Thawne. 

 

Quote

TVLINE | Some of us here at the office were surprised that Nora didn’t know key things about Barry’s backstory — specifically, the events surrounding the death of his mother. In your mind, is there a reason she wouldn’t already know such a thing?
In the future, Iris has dampened Nora’s speed and kept her powers from her, so I think this all falls in line with “I don’t want my daughter becoming a speedster and possibly being fated the same way her father was. And If I explain to her this whole backstory about how Nora [Allen] was massacred by this Man in Yellow….” I mean, Nora ultimately finds her way to Thawne, but in that time period he is in prison, so he is “around.” It’s just a way for Iris to try to keep Nora away from Thawne and learning all the stuff she doesn’t know about.

TVLINE | I guess it just makes me wonder what is in the Flash Museum if not his origin story!
The Flash Museum knows a lot, but they had to get their information from someone…. There’s a lot of speculation — they know Nora Allen was killed — but if you go back to Season 1 it was this mysterious Man in Yellow, and they thought Henry [Allen] was responsible, and then Wells was the one who admitted to it.

Edited January 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

It was already stupid that Reverse Flash (with Wells' face) was in the last crossover (Crisis on Earth-X) since he'd been erased from existence twice by that time, so it's not going to make any more sense here. Here's Helbing's statement on how that came about:

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: First, is this the version of Thawne that escaped at the end of “Crisis on Earth-X”?
TODD HELBING: Yeah. So, he escaped from “Crisis” and then, at some point, went to the future, and got put into Iron Heights.

Is this something you’ve been planning since Nora was first introduced in “Crisis” last year?
We wanted to do the Nora thing all last year, obviously, and then have her be a big part of season 5. We had, actually, a wildly different version of season 5 at the midpoint of last season. I think after we watched the crossover (personally, Thawne is my favorite villain), everybody in the room started talking about seeing him again and how great it was and the reaction from the fans. We just thought we should figure out a way that we could weave him into season 5, and once we start talking to him, the dam broke open and we figured out a pretty cool way to do it.

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/04/the-flash-100th-episode-nora-spoilers/

Eh -- *this fan* didn't like that he was there. And they really should have had Letscher as RF since Cavanagh would be around anyway as Sherloque. But now I'm curious about how they had planned out the season previously.

[Trini]

I'd been meaning to do a spoiler round-up from the previous round of interviews, but no time like the last minute! 😬😅

 

Quote

“I think it just speaks to everything they’ve experienced this year as parents for the first time, in that it really speaks to the relationship, how much they’re in love. ” The Flash showrunner Todd Helbing told reporters at a screening of the crossover. “I just think it really speaks to who they are as a couple and it sets up what they’re going to have to go through in the back half of our season.”

Helbing went on to say that The Flash will deal with whether or not too much of Oliver’s darkness seeped into Barry during the crossover. “There’s an episode a little bit down the line where Barry deals a little bit with that,” he said.

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/09/elseworlds-crossover-the-flash-postmortem/

Quote

VALDES: So, Cisco’s injuries aren’t getting any better, because there’s like dark matter shards that are lodged in there and they have to be taken out through this very extensive process. But that has actually given Cisco the ability to go back and remember what it used to be like being regular civilian Cisco without his powers, which I think will pose an interesting challenge in later episodes.

http://collider.com/the-flash-100th-episode-cast-interview

Quote

As for whether or not Thawne is going to take over as the big bad of this season (instead of Cicada like fans previously thought), Helbing just smiles. "You have to tune in to find out," he says before breaking out in laughter when I give him an exasperated look. "No, I think there is a little baton passing."

Cavanagh adds, "I can't really give it away. I better not. In terms of the 100th, clearly you see that 2049 Iron Heights moment, you know something is coming. That's not just a throwaway moment. But Cicada, I will say, is a villain we have to reckon with."

...

As for that coded speed language Nora has been writing her reports to future Thawne in? "The timeline is malleable" is a pretty big clue as to what she's planning with Thawne. "Cisco's computer figured out one line," Helbing explains. "And Sherloque is going to start figuring out what the rest of the time language means."

https://www.bustle.com/p/this-the-flash-villain-has-returned-i-have-so-many-questions-13193207

Quote

“There’s a limit: [Cicada] does have a code," Helbing elaborated. "He doesn’t kill non-metas. We’ll dive into that a little bit more in the back half of the season, but we really broke this into part 1, 2, and 3, so he’ll be around all season but we’ll start to see other things start to happen while Cicada’s going on.”

https://comicbook.com/dc/2018/12/05/the-flash-showrunner-on-100-episodes-and-balancing-light-and-dar/

[SimoneS]

@Trini, thanks for the spoiler wrap up. So many thoughts. So I was right about Cicada being around for the whole season. Ugh, I am not enjoying Klein and Cicada isn't working for me. They should have made him insane like in the comics (excluding the killing his wife bit) rather than coming up with this sad sack justification for his actions. Thawne and Zoom were just crazy as hell and I enjoyed their season villain arcs the most.

I don't get why Oliver's darkness is an issue other than yet another a desperate attempt to make him relevant on The Flash. Over the last four seasons, we have seen that Barry has enough of his own darkness that it is believable that he is capable of going over the edge. Iris and Joe, but also Harry have been usually able to help Barry steady himself.

I find it difficult to believe that Cisco might want to give up his powers. Although, it would be make fight against their villains more believable if Cisco and Caitlin didn't have any meta-powers. I wish they would give Cisco a better story. Carlos is such a good actor. I would love to see Gypsy made a regular for the next two or three seasons. She and Cisco can figure out their relationship get married and have a kid.

10 hours ago, Trini said:

It was already stupid that Reverse Flash (with Wells' face) was in the last crossover (Crisis on Earth-X) since he'd been erased from existence twice by that time, so it's not going to make any more sense here. Here's Helbing's statement on how that came about:

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/04/the-flash-100th-episode-nora-spoilers/

Eh -- *this fan* didn't like that he was there. And they really should have had Letscher as RF since Cavanagh would be around anyway as Sherloque. But now I'm curious about how they had planned out the season previously.

I am giving them a pass for not being able to explain how the Reverse Flash continues to exist because it is exactly like that in the comics. He is the bad penny who just keeps showing up without any rhyme or reason. However, I agree that it should have been Letscher in role. They probably didn't want to spend any money to hire him so they had Cavanagh play Thawne.

Edited January 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't get why Oliver's darkness is an issue other than yet another a desperate attempt to make him relevant on The Flash. Over the last four seasons, we have seen that Barry has enough of his own darkness that it is believable that he is capable of going over the edge. Iris and Joe, but also Harry have been usually able to help Barry steady himself.

Yeah, this doesn't have anything to do with Oliver, and I'm hoping they only made that connection in the crossover just to preview the story in 5.11.
 

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I find it difficult to believe that Cisco might want to give up his powers. Although, it would be make fight against their villains more believable if Cisco and Caitlin didn't have any meta-powers. I wish they would give Cisco a better story. ...

I really hope they don't permanently de-power him. It'd be really disappointing or even insulting after all the time they spent building him up to be a superhero. And the last time they addressed Cisco's feeling about his powers, he thought they were useful for the team, so it'd be weird for him to want to give them up completely.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

Spoiler roundup from the latest Helbing interviews:
 

Quote

“There’s an explanation, and then there’s another sort of thing down the line that will give more explanation as to why [Joe] was gone for so long,” Helbing shared.

It sounds, though, like Iris’ father won’t be completely MIA from these next five episodes…? “I’ll just say there’s some technology that S.T.A.R. Labs has [via which] he’s gone and he’s not gone at the same time,” the EP said, cryptically.

TV Line; But Joe wasn't 'gone', he was just offscreen, right? Whatever it is, it sounds dumb already.
 

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I would say that Thawne is her “coach”. We get into it a lot more in [the winter premiere], we explain what’s going on, and as the season progresses, she goes back to the future quite a bit. You’ll see a lot more of Thawne.

...

One of the things we’re starting to deal with with Cisco is that Barry and Iris are able to juggle this superhero life with a relationship, a marriage, but Cisco is a little less certain that he is able to do that — and he doesn’t know that he wants to. So he is going to start realizing that is if there is a cure out there, “maybe it’s something I should think about.” For Caitlin, meanwhile, it creates this interesting thing, now that she and Killer Frost are more [simpatico]. If Caitlin were to take the cure, she’d lose this personality [inside her], so there’s a tension that starts to arise between [her and Killer Frost].

...

TVLINE | And there’s always the matter of if a cure falls the wrong hands, people who don’t want to be cured….
That’s a huge part that comes up — if we do this, how do you stop that from happening? You can’t take the choice away from people. That becomes a whole storyline.

...

...And it’s not just about saving themselves, because every time they encounter him they have to stop him from killing someone else. It’s been a lot of fun, and Chris [Klein] is killing it as Cicada. But yeah, the brutal fights continue.

...

When you grow up and it’s just you, you’re a bit more of a daredevil; things don’t land the same way when you’re a parent. So when you see your child in a situation where they could or do get hurt, that amps you up tenfold. There’s a situation like that that arises, and Barry gets a little unhinged.

...

...Now that she has a full understanding of their history, it makes it a little more complicated for her and Thawne in the future, and how she thinks her parents and everybody else on Team Flash would react to that [partnership]. It gets a little dicey for her, a little tricky, and in that episode (airing Jan. 29), there’s a situation that arises where Barry and Iris could learn [the truth], so Nora tries to keep that from happening. It’s a “schmience” trip that sort of goes awry.

...

TVLINE | I suspect that we don’t know the full story behind the speed-dampening chip that Future Iris implanted in Nora. Is there something you’re holding back on?
There’s a Thawne aspect to all of this, that we haven’t revealed yet — that we will.

TVLINE | Lastly, is there anything The Flash needs to get done during the remainder of this season in service of next fall’s crossover, “Crisis on Infinite Earths“?
Oh, yes. There is, and we will.

https://tvline.com/2019/01/14/flash-season-5-preview-episode-10-barry-nora-thawne-iris/
 

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You sort of learn what their relationship is and how Thawne has helped [Nora] personally, and then we go back to them quite a bit in the back half of the season so you'll slowly start to get the full picture of how everything came to be. We want to do sort of a flash-forward, flashback episode, where you get the complete picture.

...

How will the knowledge that Thawne killed Barry's mom change the dynamic between Thawne and Nora?
Helbing: I think that whole experience in [Episode] 508 gave her the full picture — or 90 percent of the picture — of Thawne, and sort of the torment of the way he disrupted Barry's life and just the evil nature of this guy. So yeah, it shifts a lot. We deal with that in Episode 10. I think even Thawne's a little shocked that she didn't know that that was the case. It definitely puts a dent in their relationship in a big way.

...

In regards to that flash-forward, flashback episode, can you tease what we're going to see from young Nora? We did see a young version of her in The Flash museum in the trailer.
Helbing: That one, in particular, is a really fun episode. It's Barry and Iris and Nora... They're in the same place but different at the same time, and so they're experiences are different, which is fun.

...

Nora's not too quick to explain that she's working with this guy [Thawne]. She's doing her best to try to hide it, but Sherloque, he knew something was off with her story since day one. So he is slowly starting to put the pieces together. It's a race between the two of them before Team Flash is going to discover what's happening.

...

It's a little bit different once you become a parent, the emotional response to your child getting injured versus when you get injured. Everything's amped up quite a bit. The anger, the vengeful feelings, all of that is at 11 with Barry and Iris. But then like with every scenario we put these guys in, it speaks to their relationship. The great thing about Iris and Barry is when one of them is sort of unhinged, the other one is the calming side of it. So you just get to see them and how they react as parents and how they help each other.

...

Yeah, there's a lot of fights with this dude [Cicada] in the future, so having Killer Frost around certainly comes in handy. She will play a pivotal part in his future.

...

We'll definitely see Icicle again, and [Caitlin] needs to come to terms with exactly what he did to her. Not only is it sort of the end to her wondering about her father, it also plays a huge role in the meta-human cure storyline.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-flash-showrunner-todd-helbing-interivew-nora-episode/

[Trini]

Quote

One of the things we’re starting to deal with with Cisco is that Barry and Iris are able to juggle this superhero life with a relationship, a marriage, but Cisco is a little less certain that he is able to do that — and he doesn’t know that he wants to. So he is going to start realizing that is if there is a cure out there, “maybe it’s something I should think about.”

Nope. Shut up Todd! Cynthia's actress has been available and they could bring her back, and she and Cisco could be an awesome power couple - literally! Now, I wish they'd showed more of Cisco's 'normal' life, so this little arc would mean something more.

[Trini]

Spoilers from the ET interview with Helbing out today:

Quote

"I'm excited for [the fans] to learn a little bit more about Nora and Thawne," The Flash executive producer Todd Helbing recently revealed to ET, teasing what he's most looking forward to in upcoming episodes. "And then, just from a pure fanboy perspective, I'm super excited about the King Shark/Grodd episode that we were finally able to do."

Quote

... Ultimately, you'll learn about the reason... there's a lot of reasons [Nora] came back, but there's one in particular that we'll start to deal with and why she's working with Thawne and how that's gonna affect the future and her future. So all those three sort of ideas are gonna collide at the end of the season.

....

... Seeing his daughter get injured in that way, it really sparks a side of Barry that he doesn't like to bring out and it really speaks to Barry and Iris' relationship.

One of the great things about them is that when one person becomes a little unhinged, the other is there to talk them down, and so, it just speaks to their relationship. When they see their daughter [get hurt], it both brings them closer together, but it also puts them in a position where they have to react in a way that they've never had to before.

....

[About the memory visit to the Flash museum:] I'll just say it's Nora and Barry and Iris go on this journey both together and separately at the same time. So, in that episode, Nora's trying to keep Barry and Iris from discovering something about her, but Barry and Iris are learning a lot more than what they thought they were going to. So, yeah, it's a really fun episode. I think that's episode 12.

....

[About Cisco and Caitlin working on the metahuman cure:] Well, you get to see both sides of the argument there, for a while. It's whether they should make one at all, and if they do, how are they gonna deal with it responsibly?

Neither of them was in on the idea of them getting superpowers, so it's this whole idea of choice and their responsibility or their part that they play in creating these people and what would happen if the cure got in the wrong hands. Those are all elements of the back half of the season and it plays into the relationship with those two.

....

So, Cecille goes back to work and her first time back she has not the easiest court experience, I'd say. It's just par for the course with anybody that's on our show. But, yeah, we'll definitely get to see Joe West return...We're already shooting. Everybody's super excited to get Joe West back on the show.

Quote

And is there a chance that Nora and Wally West (Keiynan Lonsdale) might ever get to meet? Are there any more members of the West family that she's going to encounter in the present or future?

Possibly. We'll see.

LIES. What happened to the other two appearances Wally/Keiynan was supposed to make this season??

Edited January 15, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

This was in the same ET interview, but I wanted to comment on it separately:

Quote

There is also a pretty significant shot of that "Flash Vanishes" headline in the teaser. Are we getting closer to learning more about that? Is Iris digging deeper into the mystery of Barry's disappearance?

Yeah, that newspaper carries a lot of baggage, so it sort of influences some of the decisions coming up with Iris. It's certainly a huge storyline for next season, for the crossover, it deals with this. So, there's certainly tidbits that we're gonna start to lay in the rest of the season, so I'll just tell the readers to keep watching and they'll start to slowly get some crumbs that will set up everything that happens next year.

So is this confirmation that the 2024 Crisis is now going to be the 2019 crossover Crisis?

I was hoping that they'd keep them separate. Because the 2024 event is presumably the one where Flash fights Reverse Flash and they time travel back to the night of Nora Allen's murder. Crisis on Infinite Earths is going to have so many other characters and stuff going on.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Trini

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Nope. Shut up Todd! Cynthia's actress has been available and they could bring her back, and she and Cisco could be an awesome power couple - literally! Now, I wish they'd showed more of Cisco's 'normal' life, so this little arc would mean something more.

Apart of me can get why they don't bring Cynthia back. The actress was on a recurring contract. They did admit that she was suppose to appear in more episodes than intended last season. However, Jessica ended up getting a series regular role on another show. I guess they decided to write Cynthia off instead of waiting around for Jessica to be available. I assume what happened played a role in Dani getting promoted to series regular.